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Trump VP Drama Intensifies; GOP Reveals Speakers for Convention; Supreme Court Justice Ginsburg Apologizes for Criticizing Trump; Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired July 14, 2016 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:00:00] ANA CABRERA, CNN ANCHOR: The next hour of CNN NEWSROOM begins right now.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CABRERA: Happening now in the NEWSROOM, veep frenzy at a fever pitch.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESUMPTIVE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I'm thinking about two.

CABRERA: But who has what it takes to be Trump's running mate?

Plus, real problems, a deep division. President Obama speaks out after his meeting with police and community activists.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think it is fair to say that we will see more tension between police and communities this month, next month, next year.

CABRERA: What happens next?

Let's talk, in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CABRERA: Thanks for being here. I'm Ana Cabrera in for Carol Costello. We are now at Friday eve and the anticipation is growing.

Donald Trump, the consummate showman, master of suspense, promising to reveal his choice for running mate, but that is supposed to happen 25 hours from now. So can we dredge up any clues perhaps from the presumed VP finalists?

Take a look at what they're all doing today. Indiana Governor Mike Pence out for a casual bike ride this morning with his wife. Don't see any clues there. Here's what former House speaker Newt Gingrich is up to. We caught him just rolling his trash to the curb. And then New Jersey Governor Chris Christie, well, he wouldn't say anything to us last night at the Newark train conversation.

What about Trump? Will he offer any signs of who it will be? Well, a senior adviser tells CNN right now Trump is leaning towards Pence but here's what he had to say last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I'm narrowing it down. I mean, I'm actually potentially for but in my own mind I'm probably thinking about two.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Trump's promising the big reveal in an announcement tomorrow morning. This as the Republican convention looms. It's just a few days away now. And we are covering all the angles as this drama intensifies.

Let's begin with CNN's Sunlen Serfaty on the Governor Pence stakeout near Indianapolis.

Sunlen, are you hearing anything out there? Give us a clue.

SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Here, he is largely going along his regular typical businesses as a governor here in Indiana. He'll be speaking before an economic summit here, making former prepared remarks. Of course, a lot of buzz in the room about his potential to be Donald Trump's vice presidential pick. Of course that decision still hangs in the balance. So for these potential candidates in waiting, you can only imagine what a excruciating time waiting to hear Donald Trump's final decision.

Mike Pence, along with Newt Gingrich, one of the final contenders according to sources. And it was interesting, we've heard Newt Gingrich after he met with Donald Trump here in Indianapolis yesterday. He said that meeting went on for 2 1/2 hours. Leaving that meeting, Newt Gingrich said he got the impression that it is indeed down to himself and Mike Pence as the final two. And it was interesting to see how Newt Gingrich kind of aligned himself with Donald Trump's similar brash personalities. He described himself as a pirate, which to me really rang as he was trying to delineate himself and contrast himself to the more mild manner of Governor Pence. Here's what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NEWT GINGRICH (R), FORMER HOUSE SPEAKER: In many ways, Donald Trump is like a pirate. He's outside the normal system. He gets things done. He is bold. He is actually like a figure out of a movie. In a lot of ways, my entire career has been a little bit like a pirate. I've taken on the establishment in both parties. I've been very prepared to fight in the media.

One of the really hard questions he's got to weigh on the way to California is, do -- I mean, do you really want a two-pirate ticket?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SERFATY: Making their last pitches. We know that Donald Trump is in California now in a fundraising swing where he is expected to make his decision, of course inform his decision at some point likely today with that big announcement, a formal announcement, Ana, coming tomorrow at 11:00 a.m. in New York City. CABRERA: Sounded there like Newt Gingrich was sort of talking himself

down and talking Mike Pence up, very interesting to hear those remarks.

Sunlen Serfaty, thank you. Keep us posted.

Now when it comes to the GOP convention, Donald Trump has promised a little, quote, "showbiz" in Cleveland. And now we know who -- stage at next week's event. It seems like the Donald will deliver.

CNN's Phil Mattingly is joining me from Cleveland. Phil, who's on the list?

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Ana, there will be some traditional speakers. You're talking about Senate majority leader Mitch McConnell, governor of Wisconsin Scott Walker, Ted Cruz, the former arch nemesis at one point of Donald Trump over the course of this campaign. But as you noted, showbiz has been promised and showbiz will be delivered according to the list of speakers that has been released this morning.

And that will include athletes and actors. Tim Tebow, the former Heisman Trophy winner. UFC -- the chairman of the UFC, Dana White, obviously the Ultimate Fighting Championships. Also Antonio Sabato Jr., actor, underwear model. So what you're seeing right now when you talk to Trump advisers is they're going for a cross section here. They want people that hit that traditional side of things. The Republican lawmakers that really matter in the party.

[10:05:04] But they also want different speakers, people that might draw the attention of viewers who otherwise would be tuning out the convention that we all clearly cares so much about -- Ana.

CABRERA: And we care so much about it in part because it's been an election cycle that we haven't seen in recent history. The RNC Rules Committee typically doesn't get a ton of attention but we do know that they've been meeting and there is a controversy within this group regarding a platform that some say is anti-gay and lesbian.

Walk us through what this controversy is all about.

MATTINGLY: Yes, that's right, Ana. So the reason why there's a lot of us that are actually in Cleveland this week, the week before the convention, is the RNC is doing a lot of stuff behind the scenes that really matters. One is the platform. Basically the central tenets of the party what they're saying they want to stick to.

Now these aren't binding tenets. Donald Trump doesn't have to follow through on these proposals. But they do matter to members of the party and what we saw in the two-day debate was a series of wins for social conservatives, objections to gay marriage, objections to restrictions, basically backing an effort to restrict bathrooms to birth gender. Supporting sexual conversion therapy for minors. And protecting businesses to refuse services to gays and lesbians based on religious beliefs. Now these are core tenets of what social conservatives have been

pushing for a long period of time but the issues that run afoul of where some of the moderates in the party are. Now some of those moderates, some of the delegates who are opposed to those issues even though they lost these battles in the platform committee have been trying to put together a minority report, get enough votes to make this an issue that would come up on the floor.

Their purpose, Ana, is basically this, strike the very in-depth detailed platform that was agreed upon on Tuesday night that includes these references that some of them consider offensive and make it a shorter, more inclusive document.

Now RNC officials, Ana, that I've talked to are pretty confident they can beat this back. But it really underscores that this is still a fractured party right now that is in need of unification.

CABRERA: All right, Phil Mattingly, thank you.

Let's discuss further. Julian Zelizer, the Princeton University professor and author of "The Fierce Urgency of Now," is joining us. Also Boris Epstein, he is a Trump supporter. And Hilary Rosen, a Hillary Clinton supporter.

Boris, in a little over 24 hours from now, we're going to know who's joining Trump on his 2016 ticket. So what is this all circus about that we've been seeing? I mean, is he really that conflicted about his choice? We know he's a guy who likes to shoot from the hip.

BORIS EPSTEIN, TRUMP SUPPORTER: It's not about being conflicted. It's about making the right choice for the party, for the election and then for America. I think it speaks volumes to Donald Trump's candidacy that we have such a strong finalist list, right. You're looking at the backgrounds of all these folks and some others like Joni Ernst and General Flynn. They're very, very strong candidates. And if you compare that to the weak opportunities, weak list that the Democrats have, it shows how strong the GOP bench is.

I'm very confident that the pick is going to be a great one and it's going to be the one that will not only win in November but will be strong for America going forward.

CABRERA: Now we have some live pictures right now. This is a Pence event in Indiana. He's taking the stage. Not expected to say anything about the vice presidency and his chances of joining Donald Trump. But we are there live. We're listening in. And if he makes any remarks that you need to know about, we'll of course be bringing those to you. So stay with us here on CNN.

Now I want to push this conversation forward, Julian, because we've seen the last few days Donald Trump has done tryouts with each of these presumptive finalists for his VP selection with Governor Pence. He was also campaigning with Newt Gingrich earlier in the week or last week. Who do you think is his best bet?

JULIAN ZELIZER, HISTORIAN AND PROFESSOR, PRINCETON UNIVERSITY: Well, it really depends what he wants to do. He has two different options. One is to double down on the type of campaign that he has already put forward. That would suggest the path of someone like Newt Gingrich or Chris Christie. And the other path is to try to balance out the image that he has and pick someone like Pence with more experience and who's a little more moderate in demeanor not just policy.

You know, you have to bet, you would bet he would double down. That's the kind of campaign he has run. But we will see.

CABRERA: And yet he's come out recently saying, I don't need an attack dog, and he also, we're hearing from a Trump adviser, is leaning towards Pence this morning. We'll have to wait and see.

Let's talk about the Clinton campaign. She has an event today with Tim Kaine who is said to be on her running mate short list.

Hilary, let me read you what "The Hill" wrote about Clinton's choices and whether -- does she go with somebody who's a safe bet, maybe somebody like Tim Kaine, or does she go with somebody like Elizabeth Warren who really fire up the base. This is what somebody who's very close to the candidate told "The Hill."

"Why not backflip into the pool instead of just a plain old cannonball," one Clinton surrogate said in endorsing the idea of a less conventional move.

So, Hilary, why not backflip?

HILARY ROSEN, CLINTON SUPPORTER: Well, first, let's talk about what Trump is doing and what impact that has on Secretary Clinton.

[10:10:06] So Donald Trump has sort of three no offense white guys who have really old-fashioned views about the country, super conservative policies, anti-LGBT, anti-woman, you know, have very significant difficulties with young and women voters. So he is not even thinking about expanding his base. He got, you know, 16 million votes in the -- in the primary. He's got to get 60 million votes in a general election. So who's going to bring him more votes? Not those three guys.

CABRERA: Well, who's going to bring Hillary Clinton more votes? Is the question I'm asking you.

ROSEN: When Hillary Clinton's looking at this decision, what she's saying is, where can I be more inclusive, where can I think more about the kinds of questions that America's going to have about their president, their vice president. So, you know, any one of those folks on her short list, whether it's, you know, a Tom Perez or a Javier Becerra, or an Elizabeth Warren or a Tim Kaine, begins to broaden out the party or, you know, a business leader, military leader, begins to broaden out the party further and further. Some, you know, get moderates and independents, some are going to be more engaged on Latino voters.

But really what you want to do with your vice presidential pick is think about who's going to add value to the country. Not just who's going to echo your slogans on the campaign trail which seems to be Donald Trump's test.

CABRERA: I want to play a new Hillary Clinton ad hitting Trump pretty hard on his rhetoric. She said, his campaign is the most divisive in decades. And this morning this new ad calls him a bad role model for children. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: You know you could see there was blood coming out of her eyes, blood coming out of her wherever.

You got to see this guy, oh, don't know what I said, I don't remember, he's going, I don't remember, don't --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Boris, could this hurt Trump?

EPSTEIN: Absolutely not. And what we're seeing is that Hillary Clinton is being hurt by the fact that she's a liar and has been lying to the American people for over 40 years now she's -- since she's been in national politics. You have seen the polls in Florida. She was up by eight points in Florida. Now she's down. She was up in a Rasmussen poll, now she's down by seven, so huge swings in the polls because the American people are finally seeing through what Hillary Clinton is, someone who will say anything and do anything to achieve more power to gain money, to do anything she needs for her own game but not for the United States of America.

That's why she's struggling in the polls and no vice presidential pick is going to help her with that. That's her main issue. And to what Hilary was saying, you know, as far as Governor Pence goes, Chris Christie goes, Newt Gingrich goes, these folks absolutely add more to the party. Newt Gingrich is someone who's experienced, someone who has a lot of relationships all over the United States of America. Someone who people trust.

Chris Christie is someone from a northeastern state but a lot of relationships and a lot of appeal in Pennsylvania, Ohio, West Virginia, the coal country. And Governor Pence of course a Midwestern governor. Somebody who's been a congressman, brings a lot of experience.

ROSEN: With the lowest approval rating in history. Both of those governors have the lowest approval rating in history, so it's important --

(CROSSTALK)

EPSTEIN: I'm not sure -- I'm not sure what approval rating you're talking about, Hilary. I'm not sure what approval rating you're talking about. I would be worried about the approval rating of your candidate --

ROSEN: Mike Pence and Chris Christie. EPSTEIN: -- who has just been told by the FBI director that she lied

not just to the American people but to Congress. So Hillary Clinton and Hilary Rosen should be worried about Hillary Clinton being indicted and being convicted of lying to Congress under oath. That's what she should be worried about.

CABRERA: Hilary Rosen, I'll let you have the last word here before we go.

ROSEN: Look, elections are about choices. Hillary Clinton did something Donald Trump has never done in his life which is apologize for a mistake in judgment. The FBI specifically said she did not lie and that she has been transparent and open in this entire prospect. So it was a rough couple of days for Hillary Clinton. But the good news is that she actually has policies the American people care about.

Donald Trump is running a campaign of insults. And I think that's going to ultimately fall flat as this ad will show.

CABRERA: All right, Hilary Rosen, Boris Epstein, and Julian Zelizer, thanks for all your thoughts this morning.

We have some breaking news right now I want to bring you in the CNN NEWSROOM. We've been talking about Justice Ginsburg in the last few days and the controversial remarks she has made about Donald Trump. She's just come out and issued an apology. And I want to read it to you. We just got this. I'm reading this cold.

"On reflection," she writes, "My recent remarks and response to press inquiries were ill advised and I regret making them. Judges should avoid commenting on a candidate for public office. In the future, I will be more circumspect."

We're joined by our reporter Joan Biskupic. She's on the phone. I know she initially -- you initially talked with Justice Ginsburg, Joan. Was this a response that you anticipated?

JOAN BISKUPIC, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I was wondering The outpouring of criticism from people on both the right and the left I'm sure got Justice Ginsburg's attention.

[10:15:09] And she might have felt that it was important to try to clarify what she was thinking and to also say I made a mistake here. I should not have commented so strongly. And this is what she's saying now. In the future, I will be more circumspect. When I talked to her on Monday the late afternoon she wasn't walking back her comments, of course, and she was stronger in what she had said earlier to the AP and "New York Times." You know, dug in and called Donald Trump a faker and questioned the fact that he had turned over his tax returns.

But I think that her third set of comments to us and so strongly what she said to us did insight such strong reaction that she obviously thought -- that she had gone too far, and she uses the phrase ill advised and she says outright I regret them. And, you know, what we said all along is this is a woman who is frank about what she believes, is honest in her responses, and it's clear that upon reflection she had second thoughts about how far she had gone.

CABRERA: Do you think some will see this as her, you know, cracking under the media pressure or even the pressure of Donald Trump?

BISKUPIC: Some people might say that but I think what she decided is pretty -- pretty understandable. She had said something that she believed, obviously she wouldn't have come on so strongly late Monday if she didn't believe that. But I think she also realized that her comments raised a lot of questions about whether she could be fair in the future and I -- my guess, and I have not talked to her since, but my guess is that people whose judgment she respected had encouraged her to rethink what she said and that she believed upon reflection that she had made a mistake and wanted to clear the air.

You know, that's one thing that this does, is that it clears the air. It says, I should have avoided commenting on a candidate for public office. As you probably know, one of the cannons of judicial conduct for lower court judges does say that judges should not endorse or oppose candidates for public office and the Supreme Court isn't bound by that but the Supreme Court justices tend to follow that.

And it looks like she's realizing that her remarks were taken as in conflict with that and that she regrets her remarks. I think it's as straightforward as she's delivering it. Both pieces of commentary from Justice Ginsburg I think are true to where she's at. She believes the first remarks and then she reconsidered and thought I likely went too far and that's what she's telling us now.

CABRERA: I'm wondering when you were doing your interview with her, I know you spent a lot of time researching and reporting on issues regarding the Supreme Court. When she made those initial remarks doubling down on some of the other inflammatory comments she made previously what was going through your mind?

BISKUPIC: Well, I had already seen some of the early criticism. I had -- there hadn't been as much of an outpouring, you know, just think of what's happened since late Monday through to this morning. And there's just been a flood of commentary, including editorial commentary by people who really believe in her. "The New York Times" editorial page, not an opponent, conservative opponent of Justice Ginsburg, rather, someone -- an editorial page that has supported most of her legal writings.

And I think that we just saw such a flood of criticism again across the ideological spectrum and people who thought, you know, maybe she didn't realize how much attention they were going to get. In fact I think that was one of the things -- she might not have realized how much she was playing right into this very unusual election cycle here because look what happened. This presidential candidate, Donald Trump, was so inspired to respond, to say that, you know, she should resign and, you know, really question her temperament. And other people did, too. Other people who normally would show just a lot of respect for Justice Ginsburg.

And I think what we have to understand here is that she thought it out and decided that it was time for her to explain herself a little fully and to say in the future I ain't doing this anymore.

CABRERA: Yes. Yes, Joan, stay with me. I want to bring in Dana Bash now to get more reaction on this new apology that we're hearing from Justice Ginsburg.

[10:20:07] Dana, she apologizes for making the comments. She says she regrets saying something about a presidential candidate. But she doesn't necessarily apologize to Donald Trump.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right. I mean, obviously she feels the way she feels. And Joan just explained very clearly the reason why she went maybe many steps too far from the perspective of being a judge and sort of the traditions and even more than the traditions of what judges, never mind Supreme Court justices, should and shouldn't say about America's political process and America's candidates, especially candidates for president.

But when it comes to kind of the raw politics of this and the reality of what this has done to an already very intense political race, I mean, you can't underestimate how much of a gift Donald Trump and Republicans across the board felt that Ruth Bader Ginsburg handed them in her criticisms of Donald Trump because this campaign season in particular the court and the fact that the president -- whomever it is -- is going to have such an important choice of nominating somebody.

That is already front and center because there's a vacancy. It's not a hypothetical. It's a reality, right? That her comments being so highly political has really given the grassroots base, the conservative grassroots base in particular, a reason to support Donald Trump in a time where there weren't a lot of reasons for some in the conservative grassroots to support Donald Trump because --

(CROSSTALK)

CABRERA: Right. If it's just to support him in order to make sure their Supreme Court justices are elected on their side.

BASH: Right. Right. Exactly, because we should -- exactly because also make clear that on this particular issue, who is Donald Trump thinking about nominating if he becomes president to fill that vacancy, never mind other vacancies down the road if they occur. He has named names. He has given lists that are basically straight out of conservative Web sites, conservative think tanks, and they're all very pleased about that so, again, if there are conservatives out there who are thinking about big issues, big social issues in particular, and how much a president matters in these issues based on who they're going to put on the Supreme Court, this issue with Ruth Bader Ginsburg has really given life to that politically at a time where Donald Trump has actually needed it.

CABRERA: Our colleague David Chalian is also with us.

And David, I'm wondering, now that she's come out and retracted her statements in many ways, what's the political fallout going to be here? DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Well, I don't think that the

Republicans are going to sort of give up on this as Dana said. They do believe this was a gift because she overplayed her hand clearly. You saw that Donald Trump has asked her to resign. There is still the issue of whether she publicly now regrets making the comments, I am sure we're going to hear Republicans still raise the question of, should she recuse herself from any case in the future that may involve Donald Trump that is before the Supreme Court?

I mean, just as stunning as her comments were so is this statement today from Ruth Bader Ginsburg because you rarely see a Supreme Court justice fully jump into the political waters the way she did with her comments. You just as rarely see them bend to political pressure publicly. Needing to issue a statement like this. They usually sort of, you know, hide behind that robe and sort of really -- even if they've made a political misstep really think that they don't have to play by the rules of public pressure in this way.

That wasn't the case here. I think it was such a clear cut overstep on Ruth Bader Ginsburg's part that she really felt the political pressure to clean this up.

CABRERA: It seems like she went down a trail and she just kind of got caught in the moment and it kept going and started kind of unraveling on her.

Ariane De Vogue is a Supreme Court reporter, does a lot of work for us at the Supreme Court -- for CNN and she's joining us now, too.

Ariane, I'm wondering if any of the other Supreme Court justices have spoken out about Ginsburg's comments or what the buzz is within those circles.

ARIANE DE VOGUE, CNN SUPREME COURT CORRESPONDENT: Well, yesterday, Justice Stephen Breyer was doing a talk in Sun Valley and people out there say -- he was asked about it and he said, if I had a comment, I wouldn't make, or something like that.

It's interesting because (INAUDIBLE) ardent followers were a little critical about these comments and (INAUDIBLE) expert yesterday, she said they were regrettable.

[10:25:04] And if this election ever came to sort of a Bush v. Gore challenge, they thought that she would have to recuse herself. So definitely this is triggering not only political complications but legal questions as well.

CABRERA: All right, Ariane De Vogue, David Chalian, Dana Bash, Joan Biskupic, thank you all for being part of this conversation.

Again, the Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg now apologizing for the comments she made that were not so nice to Donald Trump and about his presidential candidacy.

We're going to take a quick break here on CNN. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CABRERA: Wit the nation still on edge, what's going to change when it comes to race relations and police? Well, President Obama is now trying to force a new dialogue and he led a four-hour plus meeting with police officials and civil rights leaders to discuss the problems with race and policing in our country. This meeting ended with a stark prediction from the president.