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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Dallas Police Funerals; Philando Castile's Funeral Today; Town Hall on Tension; Trump's VP Pick. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired July 14, 2016 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[12:00:05] ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Ashleigh Banfield. And welcome to LEGAL VIEW.

Warrior, guardian, role model, mentor, these are some of the words loved ones are using to describe Dallas Police Sergeant Michael Smith, who was killed one week ago today by a sniper. He was killed alongside of four of his fellow officers in Dallas. And in an hour from now, family, friends and colleagues and the public are going to gather for a funeral service for Dallas Police Sergeant Michael Smith. It's at the Watermark Church in Dallas. And afterwards he will be laid to rest.

At a private mass yesterday, Sergeant Smith's sister, who is afraid of public speaking, boldly spoke to honor her brother and summed up so beautifully what she and the nation are feeling. She said the climate in the U.S. right now is such.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

YEA-MEI SAUER, SGT. MICHAEL SMITH'S SISTER: I'm a Smith, and I'm Smith strong. And I hear my brother in my head telling me to conquer my fear. And I will do that.

My heart is broken, and I'm full of rage. He was taken so senselessly, violently, unjustly. My brother's murder will not be in vain. His selfless legacy will live on. He would want us to continue the good fight, to be guardians, leaders, peacemakers, to love one another, to set the example because that is what we are supposed to do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Sergeant Michael Smith's sister speaking.

And our Sara Sidner is live today outside of Dallas Police headquarters.

And, sadly, Sara, as I look at that memorial behind you, the funerals are not over yet. We've got more coming tomorrow and Saturday.

SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. I mean this is really difficult for this city. And truly the city is in mourning. And if you look at the memorial, it just keeps growing and growing. And there are dozens of people here. There are police officers from as far away as California who have come out to pay their respects. We also heard a gripping story from the wife of the Dallas Area Rapid

Transit Officer, the first to be killed in the line of duty. He was laid to rest yesterday. And she came up and spoke and said something extraordinary. She said, first of all, they were married just two weeks ago. She, too, is an officer. And I want you to hear a little bit about her and about her husband, Brent Thompson.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

EMILY THOMPSON, OFFICER BRENT THOMPSON'S WIDOW: Though I'm heartbroken and hurt, I'm going to put on my badge and my uniform and return to the street, along with all of my brothers and sisters in blue. To the coward that tried to break me and my brothers and sisters, your - know your hate made us stronger.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: Brent Thompson has six children, and his wife says that the day they got married was the happiest day of her life. And this is just one or two of the stories of five police officers who lost their lives last Thursday.

Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: Sara Sidner live for us in Dallas. Thank you, Sara.

And it brings me to another funeral now that will also be held just about an hour for now, the funeral for Philando Castile. As you know, the 32-year-old was shot and killed during a traffic stop in Falcon Heights, Minnesota, last Wednesday. His funeral is scheduled for 1:00 p.m. Eastern at the Cathedral of St. Paul. And earlier this morning, a funeral procession of mourners, led by a horse-drawn carriage carrying Castile's body in a white casket. They walked from the funeral home all the way to the cathedral.

Our Brynn Gingras is there now and joins me live. The community of St. Paul, Minnesota, and its surrounding communities also really heartbroken and devastated by this.

So walk me through how the afternoon will play out and what sort of people will attend that funeral.

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Ashleigh, we know the governor is going to be in attendance for the funeral that you said begins in about an hour. Right now the visitation is going on. And I've got to tell you, it's been an incredible scene to see that long line stretch really around the cathedral of St. Paul, of people who just want to go in and pay their respects to Philando Castile and his family.

And earlier today, man, it was a really moving scene to see that horse-drawn carriage move from the funeral home here to the cathedral of St. Paul. It was followed by family and friends and loved ones who walked about a mile. And along that procession route were people who didn't know Philando in some cases. One woman told me she came from Minneapolis this morning and she says this is the closest that she felt she could get and she wanted to pay her respects. Others, we saw children who knew Mr. Phil, as he was known to them, because he served them lunch or breakfast in the school where he worked for many years. So many people coming out, wanting to say their final good-byes.

[12:05:36] Again, that funeral beginning in just about an hour. The Castile family, Valerie in particular, his mother, has said she wants the service to be about reconciliation. She wants this to be about peace. And, of course, that's what Valerie Castile has been saying ever since this happened to her son a week ago.

Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: VIPs and citizens alike side by side at that memorial today.

Brynn Gingras, thank you for the live report from St. Paul.

And if you missed last night's CNN town hall, it was called "Black, White and Blue." And it was very powerful. Police officers, politicians, activists, lawyers, mothers, all coming together to address the racial divide between police and the communities they serve. Our Poppy Harlow takes a look at some of the most poignant moments.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CARLOS ZAMARRIPA, BROTHER OF SLAIN DALLAS OFFICER PATRICK ZAMARRIPA: He would want peace. He'd want good to come out of all of this.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Two families impacted by last week's violence coming together stressing the need for unity.

ENRIQUE ZAMARRIPA, FATHER OF SLAIN DALLAS OFFICER PATRICK ZAMARRIPA: This has to stop. By taking another person's life, it won't make the other person's life come back.

QUINYETTA MCMILLON, MOTHER OF ALTON STERLING'S SON: Violence for violence is not going - will never be the answer to nothing. And I think we all come together to say that we want peace. We want peace for both families.

HARLOW: Activists and law enforcement all joining a candid conversation about whether policing in America is inherently biased against blacks.

COL. K.L. WILLIAMS, KNIOCH, MISSOURI POLICE CHIEF: I have spoken to police officers who have told me that they believe that black people are genetically predisposed to be criminals and it is their obligation to control these people by whatever means necessary.

GARRY MCCARTHY, FORMER SUPERINTENDENT, CHICAGO POLICE DEPT.: The history of African-Americans in this country started with slavery. Then it moved to black codes, to segregation. And who was it who was enforcing those racist policies? It was the white police officer. So that narrative exists in the community based on the history. That is factual.

HARLOW: Questions over how to comply with police dominating the CNN town hall. Many fearful and distrusting.

MONIFA BANDELE, SENIOR CAMPAIGN DIRECTOR, MOMSRISING.ORG: Instructing our young people day in and day out that there's something in their behavior that brings on the abuse is tantamount to telling women that there's something that we do that causes street harassment and rape. We have to change the culture.

MARK O'MARA, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: We should not have a racial divide in this country anymore, but we do. So I say to him, you do put your hands on the wheel, you do be careful and maybe you - you do still have to be extra careful because you're black.

CHARLES BLOW, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Can we just take a moment, as America, and - and register how profound and immoral it is to say, this is the only thing that will keep you safe, is that if you pack this tool box and you take it with you everywhere you go, and this is not the way that everybody has to behave. It is only the way that you have to behave. And it is not your fault and you have not done anything wrong, but it is because you are who you are and they do not see you as the person that I love, but they see you as a person that they should fear.

HARLOW: A heart-wrenching moment as one mother shares her fear for her so

SHARAY SANTORA, HAIRSTYLIST: Every moment he's not with me, I fear for his life. I keep hearing you tell me to tell my son what to do. My 14- year-old is sitting right there. So you tell him he needs to be more respectful. You tell him he needs to be more compliant to your rules and your laws, because I've told him and, obviously, it doesn't matter, because you're telling me I'm not telling him enough.

HARLOW: Then this officer comforts her.

DIMITRI ROBERTS, FORMER CHICAGO POLICE OFFICER: I'm sorry that we have not fulfilled our civil duty and our responsibility to you and this community and your children. And I'm sorry. And I just want to take a moment and say to you, I'm sorry.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BANFIELD: Our Poppy Harlow reporting for us.

[12:09:43] The funerals and the shootings and the protests have not only dominated the headlines, they have changed the conversation on the streets, at the dinner tables, in your workplace, even at the White House. But is it changing the way people think and the way people act, or is it all just talk? We're going to have an honest assessment of that straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DWYANE WADE, CHICAGO BULLS: The racial profiling has to stop. The shoot-to-kill mentality has to stop. Not seeing the value of black and brown bodies has to stop. But also the retaliation has to stop.

LEBRON JAMES, CLEVELAND CAVALIERS: Let's use this moment as a call to action for all professional athletes to educate ourselves, explore these issues, speak up, use our influence and renounce all violence. And most importantly, go back to our communities.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Some of the world's most influential sports stars shining a light on some of this country's biggest issues. NBA stars LeBron James, Dwyane Wade, Carmelo Anthony and Chris Paul, all together on stage speaking out about racial profiling and urging communities to end gun violence.

[12:14:59] Their words coming at a tense point when it comes to policing and race relations. And here is the real perception in America right now according to the numbers. A CBS News/"New York Times" poll says this, 69 percent of Americans say that race relations are bad. And if you want some context for that number, it is the worst since 1992.

I want to bring in some of the brightest minds to discuss this. Dimitri Roberts is a former Chicago police officer who grew up on Chicago's south side and attended CNN's town hall last night. He's on the right of your screen. Alexis Johnson, in the center of your screen, executive director of the Perception Institute, has a lot of insight into what people think as they become embroiled in circumstances. And Frederick Lawrence, on the left of your screen, is the former dean of George Washington University Law School, the former president of Brandeis University. He was also at the town hall last night. He's also a senior research scholar at the Yale Law School.

If I've already said it, you've got a list that goes on and on. The dean of George Washington University Law School. You're a leading expert in civil rights and bias crimes. I want to direct my first question to you, if I may.

FREDERICK LAWRENCE, FORMER BRANDEIS UNIVERSITY PRESIDENT: Please.

BANFIELD: And I'd like to give you the contours with what the president has said following, I think, what was about a four-hour-long meeting with dozens upon dozens of experts and leaders on all sides of this problem at the White House. And after which he said this. Let's listen and I want to discuss.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This is a really hard job. We're not there yet. We're not even close to being there yet, where we want to be. We're not at a point yet where communities of color feel confident that their police departments are serving them with dignity and respect and equality, and we're not at the point yet where police departments feel adequately as supported at all levels.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BANFIELD: Dean, I think the president walked a very fine tightrope in that comment, saying that communities of color and police departments, neither is feeling secure in their operations these days, in their way they go about life and work these days. And that appeases both sides. It addresses both sides. But, again, does it get anywhere? Are we getting anywhere with the talk?

LAWRENCE: I think it's the right thing to do, and then there's the next step bend it. I think what we have right now is a very thin, thin layer of trust. And trust is what holds a civilized society together. You have police officers who many of them do not feel supported by their communities. You have the community who do not feel the police officers are their police and there to protect them.

So the president's right when he talks about, we need to get past that. But then the way to get past that in the talking - first of all, first of all, talking is the second most important thing. The most important thing is listening. The ability to actually hear the other, not to - not to fight. You know, when somebody else is talking, the natural thing is to start to think, what am I going to say next. Shut that impulse down. Listen. And for the police to understand what's coming from the minority communities in many of our cities, but also for those communities to understand what's coming from the police, and then the search for common ground.

So I think what happened at the White House yesterday is a good start. But that's got to be the exercise. It's what happened in the town hall meeting last night, I thought, the search for common ground.

BANFIELD: As long as everyone, like you said, is listening and not just stating his or her peace and hoping that the other side will listen to it, but listening to that other side.

To that point, there was a great question that was given to the Chicago Police superintendent during the town hall last night. And he was asked - his name is Garry McCarthy, and he was asked about why - as a white police chief, he was asked why is there this perception that black people are somehow dangerous right from the onset when you walk up to that car? I want you to see how that moment played out and then I'm going to ask you about it. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAMES RAMSEY, HARVARD UNIVERSITY GRAD STUDENT: My question is, what is it about black people that make us seem to police officers to be more dangerous, or in cases of police safety, our lives less valuable or even expendable?

GARRY MCCARTHY, FORMER SUPERINTENDENT OF CHICAGO POLICE DEPT.: At the end of the day - take the city of Chicago. Eighty percent of our murder victims are African-American. More than 90 percent of the known offenders of those murders are African-American. So when police officers go on patrol, a number of things happen. First of all, we put more police officers in those distressed communities. Communities with the highest levels of crime.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: So, Alexis, from the Perception Institute -

ALEXIS JOHNSON, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, PERCEPTION INSTITUTE: Yes.

BANFIELD: This is just tailor-made for you. When that police chief says, in just Chicago, as the metric here, 80 percent of murder victims are African-American, 90 percent known offenders of those murders are African-American. Is that now perception based in reality or is this one pocket? Can you extrapolate how that maybe isn't the case in other -

[12:20:13] JOHNSON: Yes.

BANFIELD: Because I hear other statistics all the time.

JOHNSON: No, I - the reality is, yes, African-Americans are by and large killed more often by other African-Americans, just as white Americans are more often killed by other white Americans.

BANFIELD: Right.

JOHNSON: We're talking about our communities that are - that are impoverished, that have, you know, very little hope. And so crime among communities that have little hope is not a surprise. It's nothing new. This has been going on for centuries.

I think what we're talking about here are specific kinds of crimes. We're talking about police officers, state violence crimes, where, you know, the question about perception is really about how we're priming, you know, police officers - by age five we're seeing young black boys as threats, right? New research. It used to be - it used to be when they hit puberty. It used to be when they, you know, started to go off to college. At age five in kindergarten is when we're starting to see threats in our - in our brains. That's the bias.

And the result is not - or rather the cause is actually a function of - you know, and I hate to indict the seat I'm sitting in, but the cause is actually because of the media associations that we've seen over and over again. Local news by and large has determined how we have come to associate young black men with crime. And it's not just that - that that's where the murders are. It's, we have this perception in our brains and that's how it plays out.

BANFIELD: I'm glad you said that because one of the things I found frustrating about yesterday's remarkable meeting at the White House was that we weren't invited.

JOHNSON: Yes.

BANFIELD: The media should have been as big a part of that meeting -

JOHNSON: Yes.

BANFIELD: Because we are amplifying everything that's going on, on both sides of this debate, and not, may I say, for the better a lot. So I -

JOHNSON: Yes.

BANFIELD: You know, President Obama, and your people, if you're watching, you should have invited us. And if you're going to have another meeting, I'm available and I will make myself available for that meeting.

JOHNSON: Yes.

BANFIELD: Dimitri, there was this moment that we just saw in - just before the break -

DIMITRI ROBERTS, FORMER CHICAGO POLICE OFFICER: Yes.

BANFIELD: Of you hugging Sharay Santora, who was a guest on our show, who - in Dallas, there she was - in Dallas, said that she was there that night with her children and the - that shots started ringing out and she felt very protected by the police who were there for her, even though she was there protesting police activity. And she also said, those police were there for me. I will be there with my children for those funerals. Which was just a remarkable - she's a former Marine, too. This is a tough woman you're hugging.

ROBERTS: Absolutely.

BANFIELD: But I could see your tenderness as well. From a guy who grew up on Chicago's south side -

ROBERTS: Yes.

BANFIELD: To a guy who became a Chicago police officer, to a guy who's now advising, the question is, can you reconcile all of those emotions and feelings that you personally have as you try to console her?

ROBERTS: Absolutely. Well, we have to because it what - it's what brings us to a place of humility. It's what - it's what brings the human factor back to just simply saying somebody who's hurting, I'm sorry, and what can I do to help? How can I make this situation better for you? Even just in this moment, what can I do there?

And that's where I think we have an opportunity to build a bridge. As far or as divisive as some of these issues may be, we have to start where we are and the circles that we have influence, extend ourselves, shake a hand, find a common ground and build that bridge from there. And then from there we have a real opportunity to put fourth sustainable solutions.

BANFIELD: Well, I certainly hope that all of this talk which, you know, is very consoling, let me just say, actually leads to the actions that, you know, we're hoping for and that we are, you know, inspired to hope for as well.

Frederick Lawrence, thank you. Dmitri Roberts and Alexis Johnson, thank you to tall of you.

ROBERTS: Thank you, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: And I look forward to additional conversations with you in the future.

LAWRENCE: Thank you.

BANFIELD: Appreciate it.

We've got some new developments in the race for the White House and Donald Trump's choice for his running mate who might be the next president of the United States. Got some insight on that coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:28:21] BANFIELD: So, some developing news in the big parlor game. Donald Trump's vice presidential pick. That game may be coming to an end and real fast.

I'm joined by chief political correspondent Dana Bash in Washington, D.C., working your sources and getting one big tip. What is it?

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right. We've been talking to our sources and I've been on the phone with a few this morning who say the following, and this is all under the headline of all indications are very, very much that Mike Pence will be Donald Trump's nominee. Having said that, at least as of when I came on air with you, our sources were saying that Donald Trump had not made that very, very important call to say, please, Mike Pence, will you be my nominee and, on the other end of the call, Mike Pence accepting it. That has not happened at least in the past 30 seconds or so before coming on with you according to our sources.

However, here is what we are told. A couple of things. Number one, Trump and Pence did speak last night, late last night. And that according to the person I spoke with, Trump leaned in very much to the concept of Pence being his choice for his running mate.

Number two, the planning going on inside Trump world as we speak is for Mike Pence to be the guy to show up with Donald Trump at 11:00 a.m. tomorrow in New York City to be the formal running mate, to be the man that he formally picks. And that's according to several sources familiar with the process.

[12:29:50] And just in conjunction with that, to give you a little bit of color of how that's playing out, one of our colleagues, Jeremy Diamond, is on the plane heading from Indiana to New York with Mike Pence's deputy campaign manager for his campaign for governor in Indiana. This is not somebody who makes regular trips to New York. I think it's fair to say that we can read something into that.