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Signs Shows Pence Being Trump's V.P. Pick; Trump Has Not Yet Called Pence; Pence Has Governor Deadline Tomorrow; Clinton Meets With Potential Running Mates. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired July 14, 2016 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, I'm Wolf Blitzer. It's 1:00 p.m. here in Washington. It's noon in Dallas, 8:00 p.m. in Baghdad. Wherever you're watching around the world, thanks very much for joining us.

We begin right now with some fast-moving developments in Donald Trump's vice presidential search. Sources now say the signs are pointing to the Indiana Governor Mike Pence as Trump's choice, but there has been no formal offer, we are told, at this point.

We're digging into the latest information. We're getting new information right now. Sunlen Serfaty is joining us. Sunlen, you're there. You're in Indiana. What's the latest you're hearing?

SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well Wolf, we're here outside the governor's mansion where we believe Governor Mike Pence is still inside his residence. And there has been a flurry of some activity here. A few people coming and going including, we believe, a lieutenant governor here. The man that could potentially replace him in the governorship should Donald Trump choose Mike Pence to be his running mate.

But earlier today, he arrived back here at this mansion about two hours ago, so he's been huddled inside for quite a few hours, at this point.

But earlier today, he did make a public appearance at -- in the -- in his gubernatorial capacity. He gave an economic speech about economic innovation and brought with him a very straight poker face, Wolf. He made no reference, made no indication.

He didn't -- he seemed to be avoiding to have personal dialogue with people, racing out of the building afterwards, jumping into his car and returning back here, not answering any press questions. So, certainly trying to be a little bit under the radar today.

Earlier than that, he spent his morning clearing his head a bit. He went for a bike ride with his wife this morning. They took off here around 8:30 from the governor's mansion to have a little bike ride together.

But, clearly, Mike Pence, potential big choice for Donald Trump. Much has been said about how their relationship has been developing over the last few days. Donald Trump met here yesterday for a breakfast meeting with Pence's family and some members of the Trump family. Sources telling CNN that they've been getting along fabulously.

And it's been interesting to see how Donald Trump has somewhat changed his tune about the qualifications he's looking in a running mate, just over the last 48 hours. For so long, he has been saying he wanted an attack dog, somewhat of a fighter. And a lot of people noted then, wolf, that that didn't necessarily -- wasn't in line with Mike Pence's personality, known for being more mild mannered, well-disciplined in his message.

And in -- just in the last 24 hours, Donald Trump switching in an interview, saying, you know, I'm not looking for an attack dog. I'm looking for someone strong. I'm looking for someone solid. And it's interesting, he has also used the word solid, Wolf, to describe Mike Pence.

BLITZER: Sunlen, stand by.

I want to bring in our Chief Political Correspondent Dana Bash who's been working her sources as well. Dana, all signs apparently point to Pence.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: They do, at this point. And that, as we've been reporting for the past last several days, he has been the choice of Donald Trump's kids, in particular his son-in- law who has been a more and more influential force, in the campaign.

BLITZER: Jared Kushner.

BASH: Jared Kushner. Let me just tell you a few things that I have been told. Number one, that, as you said, all signs lead to Mike Pence. However, as of just about a -- I guess within the last hour, as far as we were told, the actual phone call has not been made. Donald Trump has not called Mike Pence which is critically important because, until that phone call goes, his campaign apparatus can be planning all they want for Mike Pence. But unless he gets the call, unless Donald Trump makes it formal, it's not Mike Pence.

Having said that, Mike Pence and Donald Trump, I'm told, spoke late last night, where during that conversation, Trump leaned in to the notion that Mike Pence would be the guy that he's going to pick.

And then, the other thing is that the sort of apparatus of team Trump has been gearing up in preparation for Mike Pence to be the pick in so much that even Pence's deputy campaign manager in Indiana, who's helping run his Indiana governor's re-election campaign, he's on a plane right now heading to New York. In fact, our colleague, Jeremy Diamond, was on the plane with him. And I think we have some sound of him. Let's take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MARC LOTTER, DEPUTY CAMPAIGN MANAGER, PENCE FOR GOVERNOR: I'm on this airplane with you and I have got nothing to offer. JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN POLITICS REPORTER: Are you on here to meet with

the campaign? Anything --

LOTTER: I'm here to have meetings.

[13:05:00] DIAMOND: For the pence campaign, not for the Trump campaign?

LOTTER: (INAUDIBLE.)

DIAMOND: OK. Nothing (INAUDIBLE.)

LOTTER: (INAUDIBLE.)

DIAMOND: OK, thanks.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BASH: It's hard to hear that but I think the way we can describe that is a poker face. He was not saying very much.

BLITZER: Because if Pence doesn't get the vice presidential nod, he's got to --

BASH: Exactly.

BLITZER: -- file paperwork in Indiana by tomorrow --

BASH: Exactly.

BLITZER: -- that he's seeking re-election --

BASH: Exactly.

BLITZER: -- as governor.

BASH: Well -- and I'll get to that in one second but just to make the final point that, you know, for people who might not understand the import of the deputy campaign manager being -- going to New York, there would really be no reason for him to go unless he was going to try to raise some money, other than the fact that he's being sent to New York to prepare for an announcement tomorrow.

To your point about the paperwork, tomorrow is the deadline for Mike Pence to get off of the ballot in Indiana and make room for another Republican to run. I'm told that that paperwork is ready to go. All they have to do is take it in and for it to be filed. So --

BLITZER: To the secretary of state of Indiana.

BASH: To the secretary of state of Indiana which is a big deal. And I should also note, part of the reason why we're told that Mike Pence and the people around him have been, in the past couple of weeks, more and more eager and interested in this role, because this was supposed to be a very tough re-election campaign for him. I was just there yesterday, and even in the neighborhoods around the governor's mansion, you have, you know, Pence must go signs in the yard -- in the yards around there. So, it wasn't easy for him in Indiana.

BITZER: All right, I want to -- I want to continue this conversation. Dana, stay with us.

Gloria Borger, our Chief Political Analyst, is with us. Also, our National Political Reporter Maeve Reston is with us from Cleveland. Gloria, source tells us Trump's gut was initially to go with New Jersey Governor Chris Christie. We know Newt Gingrich, the former speaker, was one of the finalists as well. But, apparently now, all signs pointing to Governor Pence.

It looks like he went with the recommendations of his kids. Is that right?

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, look, I think not only his kids but I think a lot of establishment conservatives, such as Paul Ryan, for example, who all hinted very strongly that they would be thrilled with a choice of Mike Pence because Donald Trump is suspect among conservatives. They don't believe he's a conservative and Mike Pence truly is. He's also served in Congress so he checks that box.

You know, this is a choice that's kind of out of the ordinary for Donald Trump because, as you point out, he's kind of a gut decision maker. And this is a head choice. You know, this is all about checking boxes. This is not somebody he knows very well. You know, Chris Christie he's known.

Loyalty is something that Donald Trump values. Mike Pence was a Ted Cruz supporter. Mike Pence tweeted that the constitute -- that the ban on Muslims was unconstitutional and offensive.

So, you know, while this kind of deflates the anti-Trump movement to a degree, these are not -- these are not two people who have been in sync the entire time. Whereas Chris Christie was somebody who joined the Trump train as soon as he got off the campaign, basically.

So, you know, I'm sure this was a very tough decision for Donald Trump, and it's the first one we've seen. You know, when candidates make a decision about who their vice president is going to be, it tells you a lot about the candidate.

And what Donald Trump is doing -- if indeed he finally makes that phone call to Mike Pence, as we expect him to do, what he is doing is nodding to, in fact, some of his detractors and his family and others who are saying, you know what? This is the right decision for you to make, because you can help bring the party together which is what Donald Trump has been saying he actually wants to do.

BLITZER: I'm showing our viewers some live pictures from the Indiana governor's mansion over there. We're trying to monitor Governor Pence and see what his plans are. As far as we know, he's still there right now.

Maeve, let's talk a little bit about this tweet. We heard from the campaign -- the Trump campaign chairman, Paul Manafort. He tweeted this, Donald Trump V.P. selection, a decision wi1l be made in the near future and the announcement will be tomorrow at 11:00 a.m. in New York. That could be simply a technicality. Even if the formal, official phone call hasn't yet been made, all signs do, in fact, point to Governor Pence being the vice presidential running mate.

MAEVE RESTON, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER: That's right. I mean, what -- Paul Manafort said the same thing last night as we were chasing him, you know, up the elevators. But here in Cleveland, saying that this pick would come Friday and the formal decision.

I think what's important to note here is that while the campaign would like to keep the suspense going by saying that no decision has been made yet, I know that his spokesman tweeted that recently, it is important to recognize that among Donald Trump's detractors here in Cleveland, so many of them say that Pence is the favorite for exactly the reasons that Gloria was talking about.

[13:10:12] And it's not just, you know, necessarily a nod to social conservatives and the decision, you know, of -- to try to unite the party, but also to other voters out there, women within that, you know, 35 to 55 age range who are really unsure of Donald Trump's temperament. Trump advisers have been saying that, you know, Pence might help to kind of assure those voters that Donald Trump is going to make a calm, rational decision when it -- when it's his first big decision.

You have to imagine that Chris Christie and Newt Gingrich would have been a lot more fun than Mike Pence on the Trump plane. But, clearly, Pence would be the calmer choice. And for people who are looking for signals on temperament from Donald Trump, that may be what this pick could signal if he does choose Pence.

BLITZER: Stand by, Maeve, because Dana is getting some more information. What else are you picking up, Dana?

BASH: Well, this actually is coming from our colleague, Manu Raju, who is on Capitol Hill who just spoke with Senator Jeff Sessions who was flown in yesterday to Indiana which was, again, oddly kind of the center of the Trump universe yesterday because he had plane issues. But -- so, Sessions just told Manu that he is a big supporter of Pence.

So, why is that interesting? I think for a couple reasons. To -- with Gloria's -- the point that Gloria made earlier which I think is really, really key. The people who are very, very close to Trump, who want Mike Pence, whether it is Paul Manafort, whether it is Jared Kushner, his son-in-law, or even some of his -- of his other children, they made a very, very active effort in the past 24, 36 hours to get to their father, or to Donald Trump, and to get Trump in front of people who were going to push for Pence. I mean, I think that's the -- there's kind of a little question that Jeff Sessions who was kind of his travel buddy yesterday, likes Mike Pence. He's his kind of conservative. He's an evangelical. He's -- they kind of are similar in nature.

And, on the other hand, you also have the kind of more gut feeling of Donald Trump where, if he was going with his gut, he probably would go, as Gloria said, with Chris Christie who he was very, very -- he's very close with, who he just feels inherently and innately comfortable with. And, you -- I think you also saw the shift in what Donald Trump was saying publicly, kind of follow what we have seen, in terms of the -- of the developments from maybe leaning towards Christie to leaning towards Pence over the past 24 to 36 hours.

BLITZER: Because he basically said he doesn't need another attack on --

BASH: But he went for -- I want an attack dog. I need an attack dog.

BLITZER: And now, he says --

BASH: But maybe I don't need that.

BLITZER: -- he wants somebody with policy.

BASH: Exactly.

BLITZER: Mike Pence served a decade in the U.S. House of Representatives.

BASH: Exactly.

BLITZER: He was on the Foreign Affairs Committee. He knows Congress. He rose to number four among the House Republican leadership. And now, he was, four years ago, elected governor of Indiana. So, he brings into play that executive experience, plus the congressional experience, a lot of political experience.

Plus, he also brings into play a very conservative record, and presumably, if it works out, if, in fact, he is the vice presidential nominee, he could help Donald Trump unify various elements of the Republican Party which he clearly needs to do.

Everyone stand by. Much more coming up. A Trump campaign advisor will join us live. We'll talk about where Donald Trump's mind is right now when it comes to his vice presidential choice.

Plus, Hillary Clinton hits the campaign trail with a potential running mate. But it's not the only meeting she has. We're going to tell you what other V.P. short-listers she's seeing today.

[13:13:54]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:17:42] BLITZER: Let's get back to the developing story this hour, Donald Trump's possible vice presidential choice. Take a look at this. We've got some live pictures coming in from outside Governor Mike Pence's gubernatorial mansion in Indianapolis. Cameras are staked out there right now because there are some strong indications that Governor Pence will be named Donald Trump's vice presidential running mate. A senior Trump adviser tells CNN, Trump is leaning toward picking Pence as his VP. Sources familiar with the process say the Trump camp is planning for that scenarios.

Let's talk a little bit more about this and other developments from some -- with someone on the inside, the Donald Trump adviser, co- chairman of the Trump campaign, Sam Clovis.

Sam, thanks very much for coming in.

SAM CLOVIS, TRUMP NATIONAL CAMPAIGN CO-CHAIRMAN: Thanks for having me on, Wolf.

BLITZER: So based on everything you know, and you're well plugged in, where does it stand right now, Mike Pence, Donald Trump?

CLOVIS: Well, I don't want to get out in front of my headlights, as my father used to tell me, so I think we'll leave it to the campaign manager and the candidate to make the announcement. And I think that will be in due course.

BLITZER: Well, it will be -- the formal announcement could be --

CLOVIS: Tomorrow. Yes.

BLITZER: We just got an announcement from the Trump campaign, the Donald J. Trump vice presidential announcement will be at 11:00 a.m. tomorrow morning at the New York Hilton Midtown Hotel. It's not going to be at Trump Tower.

CLOVIS: Right.

BLITZER: It's going to be a hotel because presumably they want a bigger ballroom, is that right?

CLOVIS: Yes. Yes. Yes.

BLITZER: There are going to be a lot more people there.

CLOVIS: A lot more people there, yes.

BLITZER: And he wants to do it tomorrow before the convention starts on Monday.

CLOVIS: Absolutely. Yes. Yes.

BLITZER: There's also word he wants to do it tomorrow so they can tape an interview jointly with "60 Minutes."

CLOVIS: Right.

BLITZER: So that will air Sunday, right? Is that right?

CLOVIS: Right. I think so. And the other thing is, it takes advantage of the Friday news cycle. It will be a great lead-in to the -- to the convention. This person will be probably on all the Sunday talk shows, which will be one of the things will --

BLITZER: The vice presidential nominee?

CLOVIS: Yes. And will absorb that news cycle as well. And it's just tremendous momentum going into the convention.

BLITZER: So that's -- that's that. And if it is Mike Pence, and you don't have to tell us if it is, I know you don't want to get out in front of Donald Trump on this sensitive issue. My suspicion is, he's a guy with a lot of congressional experience, plus gubernatorial experience. A lot of conservatives really like Mike Pence and he can help unify various wings of the party. Is that the way you see it as well?

CLOVIS: I do. I think it -- we had some great choices. I -- you know, Speaker Gingrich and Governor Christie were in the mix as well. We have a great bench. We're very fortunate to be able to do that. I think Governor Pence brings a tremendous amount to the table.

[13:20:04] But I also think that one of the things is we're going to have when we come to Washington, we're going to bring a lot of outside people into this. You still have to make law. You still have to get along. You still have to do bipartisanship in our Congress. And it's going to take a steady hand. And I think someone like Governor Pence would bring a lot of credibility to that effort.

BLITZER: I want to play a new ad that Hillary Clinton's campaign just put out, really going after Donald Trump.

CLOVIS: Sure.

BLITZER: I'll play a little bit of the ad, then we'll discuss.

CLOVIS: All right. Sure.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESUMPTIVE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I love the old days. You know what they used to do to guys like that, when they were in a place like this? They'd be carried out on a stretcher, folks.

And you can tell them to go (EXPLETIVE DELETED) themselves.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: And it goes on. You have these little kids listening to various controversial statements that Donald Trump made.

CLOVIS: Right.

BLITZER: You're a professional. That's a pretty powerful ad.

CLOVIS: Well, I think it's an interesting ad. The other thing is, you have to recognize the fact of who's going to support Donald Trump? I mean who is -- who's her audience? What's she trying to do? Is she trying the solidify her own base? Or is she trying to come over and poach votes from us?

I don't think that the people who have made up their minds about Donald Trump have made up their minds regardless of what has been going on. I think that's very solid support. We've seen this across the country. We're also continuing to attract people to the campaign. You can't imagine what the grassroots effort is like in this country and the up swell and -- that we're seeing in the grassroots to support Donald Trump. I think it's going to be a shocking result in November.

BLITZER: Well, you saw this new national poll in "The New York Times" --

CLOVIS: Yes.

BLITZER: That just came out today. It's effectively tied.

CLOVIS: Well, yes, and --

BLITZER: This is registered voters.

CLOVIS: Yes. And we were -- we were not anticipating closing this quickly. And I think this goes a lot to the -- to the fact of what the message has been. People are coming to our message and they understand our candidate because he speaks plainly and he speaks the truth. And I think this is an issue that for a lot of people this whole issue of truth telling is going to resonate under the sees (ph) state here for the entire campaign.

BLITZER: Will we see a more subdued Donald Trump?

CLOVIS: I don't know about the subdued aspect. I do think that it's going to be -- we'll see a lot more movement as we come out of the convention, of course. We have a strong platform. We're going to be supporting that platform. We're going to be out there enhancing the policy positions in different areas. We're building out our coalitions. In fact, that's one of the things I'm doing here in town this week is working on coalitions. And that's what we'll be doing next week in Cleveland and the following week after that, is to help build out some of these national advisory committees in different areas.

BLITZER: You saw the Supreme Court justice, Ruth Bader Ginsburg --

CLOVIS: Yes.

BLITZER: Has now formally expressed regret for her controversial comments about Donald Trump --

CLOVIS: As she should.

BLITZER: Saying they were ill-advised. Does he accept her apology?

CLOVIS: Well, you'd have to talk to Mr. Trump about that.

BLITZER: What do you think, should he? CLOVIS: I think that the notion here is that he doesn't have to respond to this at all. This was an issue that I think that Justice Ginsburg is going to have to deal -- her strongest criticism will come from here peers on the court. And that's really where the criticism's going to come. And I think that this is already -- if she's been taken to the wood shed, that's who ought to do it, and I think it's already been done.

BLITZER: Sam Clovis, thanks very much for coming in.

CLOVIS: Wolf, as always, great to be on with you.

BLITZER: All right, thank you.

Coming up, Hillary Clinton meets with four, not three, not two, four potential vice presidential candidates in a single day. We're going to get an update on her day up on Capitol Hill, if she's any closer to her VP choice.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:28:17] BLITZER: With Donald Trump just hours away from announcing his vice presidential pick, the pressure is clearly on for Hillary Clinton to choose a running mate herself. Clinton is campaigning here in Washington today. Our cameras captured this unscheduled stop as she laid flowers at the National Law Enforcement Memorial, making a stop in honor of the five police officers killed in Dallas. And just moments ago, she arrived up on Capitol Hill for a closed-door meeting with Senate Democrats.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESUMPTIVE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Great to be back here in the Senate.

QUESTION: Are you concerned that you're in a dead heat with Donald Trump?

CLINTON: I'm very happy to be here. Thank you all very much.

QUESTION: What's your message today?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Some of whom, some of those Democrats are said to be on her short list for vice president, including Corey Booker, Sherrod Brown, Tim Kaine, Elizabeth Warren. Clinton is expected to make her decision next week. Her secretive selection process is proving to be a stark contrast to Donald Trump's, who is playing it out more like a reality show.

For the very latest, let's bring in CNN's senior Washington correspondent Joe Johns. He's up on Capitol Hill.

Joe, Clinton's VP selection process is very, very secretive right now, although it seem -- we seem to know pretty much where she is on that short list.

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: That's true. And as you said, Wolf, this really speaks to the contrast in styles between the Trump and Clinton campaigns. The Trump campaign teasing this out with tidbits, some information, nothing dispositive and, yes, very much like a reality show. I was on the elevator just a little while ago with Senator Ted Cruz, who also ran for president. And I asked him about it. And he said he had no clue what was going to happen here, but he said he was watching television just like everybody else.

[13:30:04] Meanwhile, on the Clinton side, they're handling it much as a policy wonk would, looking for individuals whose background and history matches the story.