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WORLD RIGHT NOW WITH HALA GORANI
Trump Campaign: No VP Decision Made Yet; Sources: Indiana Governor Emerges As Frontrunner; Witness To Brutal Siege Of Aleppo; Kerry Tries To Revive Stalled Syria Peace Process; Boris Johnson Becomes British Foreign Secretaryl Investigators Search For Train Crash Cause; CNN Event Tackles Issues Of Racism, Policing; Easing Racial Tensions In America; Sex Trafficking Survivor Helps Catch Predators. Aired 3-4p ET
Aired July 14, 2016 - 15:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CLARISSA WARD, CNN INTERNATIONAL GUEST ANCHOR: Hello. I'm Clarissa Ward standing in for Hala Gorani, live from CNN London. This is THE WORLD RIGHT
Donald Trump's casting call for a running mate is coming to an end. We begin with a major development in the race for the White House. Sources
say Indiana Governor Mike Pence appears set to get the nod to become Trump's vice presidential pick. In fact, he's already been told to start
preparing for the big reveal in New York tomorrow.
Here is a quick look at Pence's background. Now governor of a rust belt swing state, he formerly served in the U.S. Congress for 12 years. At 57
years old, Pence is well-known as a staunch social conservative. Nothing is certain, of course, until Trump himself makes the official call to
extend the offer, which we don't believe he has done yet.
Let's bring in CNN political analyst, Josh Rogin, and CNN political commentator, Jeffrey Lord, a Donald Trump supporter. Jeffrey, I want to
start with you. We are hearing from the Trump campaign that nothing is official yet. Tell us the latest that you're hearing.
JEFFREY LORD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: That's right. Let me read you two quick things. From Paul Manafort, the campaign chairman, regarding the
VP selection, "A decision will be made in the near future and the announcement will be tomorrow at 11:00 a.m. in New York."
And then a second one just in from the Trump campaign's communications director which reads, quote, "A decision has not been made by Mr. Trump,"
unquote. "He will be making it in the near future."
So there we are. I would also remind, as a caution, in 2004, a major American newspaper, I forget which one, ran a front page story saying that
the Democratic nominee, John Kerry, had selected House Minority Leader Dick Gephardt as his vice presidential running mate and of course, that turned
out not to be accurate. So we do want to be cautious here.
WARD: And we certainly are being cautious for all those reasons, Jeffrey. But Josh, give us a sense of why do you think Trump would hypothetically
pick somebody like Governor Pence? What would be the advantages to appointing him?
JOSH ROGIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: The Trump campaign has been calling senior Republican and RNC leaders, according to several reports, and
telling them that they intend to choose Pence, so even the final decision might not be made. It seems that they are leaning in that direction.
If that is his choice, it shows a couple of things. It shows that Trump is going with what we consider a safe pick, right? He's not going to gamble.
He's picking someone who is relatively uncontroversial, who will not overshadow him, and who shores up his support amongst the base, amongst
social and fiscal conservatives.
That's sort of the opposite of what somebody like John McCain did in 2008, when he took a very big gamble, a gamble that turned out not to pay off
when he choose Sarah Palin. That's a reflection of the fact that Trump believes he is in a good position.
Now we can debate the polls and the numbers, and whether or not he's really in a good position, but by choosing someone safe like Mike Pence, that
would be an indication that Trump feels confident that he has a reasonable chance of winning this election without taking a gamble on his vice
WARD: OK, Jeffrey, I just want to ask you, some of the more mainstream Republicans like Senator John McCain, like Lindsey Graham, have said they
intend to boycott the Republican convention, have been very outspoken in their opposition to Donald Trump. Do you think an appointment like Pence
would change that at all, would it galvanize more support in the center?
LORD: They're from the more, if you will, liberal wing of the Republican Party. It will galvanize among conservatives. That will be a help for him
because Governor Pence is without doubt a conservatist conservative. I used to work for the late Jack Kemp. When Jack Kemp passed away, then
Congressman Pence stood on the floor of the House and said that he was a Jack Kemp Republican. That's all to the good in terms of the base of the
WARD: But it doesn't help him with the minority vote at all, does it?
[15:05:06]LORD: Strictly speaking, no. I mean, I think that's going to be up to Donald Trump to deal with. The interesting thing is that Jack Kemp
was very much noted for his appeals to the minority communities around the country. And I suspect Donald Trump will be getting that kind of advice
from Mr. Pence, if the governor is selected.
And for that matter, even if he's not selected, he'll be getting that kind of advice from Newt Gingrich, who was also a close friend of Jack Kemp's
and believes very much in this kind of approach to minorities.
WARD: And Josh, how do you see Hillary Clinton potentially responding if Governor Pence is indeed the vice presidential pick? What would you expect
her -- would it affect her choice of a VP at all, do you think?
ROGIN: Well, first of all, the Clinton campaign will have a week to sort of attack Pence. They'll dig up all of the Oppo research they can if they
haven't already and make sure his record is muddied as possible.
Some of the differences they'll focus on that Pence has with Trump include Pence is a big supporter of the Transpacific Partnership, something that
Trump is bitterly against. Pence said Trump's proposal for a Muslim ban was offensive and unconstitutional.
It will be interesting to see how they spur that circle. Pence has put forth an immigration plan that some have called a pathway to amnesty
because it gets workers program. So the first thing the Clinton campaign will do is to paint Pence as someone who does not agree with Trump on big
After that, I think they'll make their choice based on their own calculations.
WARD: OK, stay with me both of you. I want to talk about a new poll which shows that Donald Trump is deadlocked now with Hillary Clinton ahead of the
conventions. The "New York Times"/CBS News poll has the candidates tied at 40 percent nationwide among registered voters.
CNN's poll of polls shows Clinton still has an edge over Trump, but that lead has dropped in recent weeks from 7 points to 4. Jeffrey, I want to
get your reaction there. How do you see that poll? Do you think it's accurate?
LORD: Yes, it could well be accurate. What it says to me is that Hillary Clinton is a weak candidate. With all the supposed liabilities that Donald
Trump has according to his opponents, she should be ahead of him, well into double digits.
You know, this is as close as close can be here. So I think that this speaks as much to her problems as to his -- and also to his strength. Here
in Pennsylvania, there is a real possibility he could carry this state, my home state here, for the first time since 1988.
He's very popular here and he makes repeated visits here, as, I must say, does she, which says that she realizes the state is in play.
WARD: Josh, final thought?
ROGIN: Yes, no, I think this poll is a snapshot in time. It was taken during Hillary Clinton's worst week on the trail when she was being accused
by the director of the FBI as being untruthful. I think that Trump will get a bump after his convention. She'll get a bump after her convention.
And then everything will resettle. And also being from Pennsylvania, let me remind Jeffrey here that that state has voted a Democrat for president
in the last, I don't know how many elections. I don't see that as likely to change.
LORD: Since 1988.
ROGIN: There you go.
WARD: All right, Josh Rogin, Jeffrey Lord, thank you both for being with us.
Well, Hillary Clinton is holding a campaign rally right now in Annandale, Virginia. A potential vice presidential pick, Tim Kaine, is joining her.
He is the state's governor and is apparently a serious contender in the race for Clinton's running mate.
Analysts consider him to be a safe option as opposed to someone considered a riskier choice such as Senator Elizabeth Warren. The Clinton campaign
has released a provocative new ad. It shows young children actual watching TV appearances by her rival, Donald Trump. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE (voice-over): I love the old days. You know what they used to do to guys like that when they were at a
place like this? They would be carried out on a stretcher, folks. And you can tell them to go (inaudible) themselves. I could stand in the middle of
Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose any voters.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WARD: Clinton's campaign says the ad will be broadcast in swing states, including Virginia, North Carolina, and Florida.
Now to Syria, the images are incredibly painful to watch. The stories of suffering almost unbearable to hear. We're about to show you an eyewitness
account of the pure hell that has become daily life in Aleppo, a city under siege.
An American doctor spent two weeks there and shared his experiences with CNN's Nima Elbagir. We warn you, her report is extremely disturbing, but
we think it's important for the world to see.
SAMER ATTAR, AMERICAN ORTHOPEDIC SURGEON: The road smelled of rotten flesh, burnt metal. There were plumes of smoke from ordinance that had
NIMA ELBAGIR, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Castello (ph) Road, the main supply route into Aleppo. It's known as the
road of death.
ATTAR: And the driver was driving really fast. At every moment you thought you might get hit by a bomb or a missile or a bullet.
[15:10:07]ELBAGIR: Dr. Samer Attar is an American surgeon. We met with him in the Turkish border town of Hatai after his return from a mission in
Aleppo with the Syrian-American Medical Society. This is what Sam arrived to find.
A pregnant woman, her two children killed when a barrel bomb directly hit her house. A paralyzed child, he too passed away soon after this picture
ATTAR: July 1, the market was hit. Later on, we learned about 25 people were killed, but there were a lot more injured. And that's really when all
hell broke loose.
ELBAGIR: Amid the chaos, Dr. Attar did the best he could to document what he was seeing. Children crammed three to a bed. Little bodies wrapped in
white shrouds, awaiting burial, and everywhere, blood. Each day became a litany of the dead and the dying.
ATTAR: We had to stop doing CPR on a child that was severely injured in order to save someone else who was bleeding to death, who we knew could be
ELBAGIR (on camera): And the child couldn't?
ATTAR: The child could have if we had the personnel and the resources. But when you have that many people who are injured, you have to make
decisions on who you're going to save and who you have to leave behind.
ELBAGIR (voice-over): And even when you make the decision, there are no guarantees. This 8-year-old arrived with his intestines spilling out of a
gaping wound. After hours of painstaking surgery, he survived, only to succumb to shock days later.
And everywhere, Dr. Attar said, there was fear. The hospital itself a target of repeated bombardment. Since the start of the Syrian conflict,
rights groups estimate hundreds of health care professionals have been killed in the vollies of Syrian and Russian bombardment. Many doctors
working today believed they were intentionally targeted.
ATTAR: To destroy hospitals, schools, infrastructure, you're sort of trying to take away hope for people. When you destroy a hospital, you're
not just killing the doctors and the patients in that hospital, you're killing all of the future patients that could be treated in that hospital.
ELBAGIR: But even here there are moments of respite.
ATTAR: Right now, I'm living my worst nightmare, surrounded by all these screaming kids who are trying to climb on top of me.
ELBAGIR (on camera): Do you have any sense of those days and nights how many patients you were seeing?
ATTAR: There were hundreds and every day, after July 1, every day kind of blurred together. It was just -- in the emergency room it was just one
person after another, child after child, after patient after patient. And you never -- you're so busy, you never really know who make it, who's
alive, who's dead.
ELBAGIR: How did you feel when you crossed over because you were the last car out of Aleppo? How did that feel, looking back down the Castello Road
and knowing that that's now closed?
ATTAR: You always leave a piece of yourself behind. You meet a remarkable group of people. You get to take care of a lot of people, but you always
feel like you've abandoned them when you leave. So I feel a bit broken and empty.
ELBAGIR: Would you go back?
ATTAR: I would go back.
ELBAGIR: In spite of everything?
ATTAR: The way I see it, if there are Syrian colleagues of mine who are doing it, and my life is not more important than theirs.
ELBAGIR (voice-over): Nima Elbagir, CNN, Hatai.
WARD: U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry is on a mission to revive the stalled Syrian peace process and he wants Moscow's help. He's meeting
today with Russian President Vladimir Putin. There is a potential deal in the works involving more collaboration between Russia and the U.S. in
Meantime, Syria's president tells NBC News that Russian airstrikes are helping him win the war. Bashar Al-Assad said he and Mr. Putin share the
same values, but he dismissed U.S. efforts in Syria.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BASHAR AL-ASSAD, SYRIAN PRESIDENT: The United States doesn't have the will to defeat the terrorists. It had the will to control them and to use them
as a card in Afghanistan.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WARD: Our Pentagon correspondent, Barbara Starr, joins me now, with more details on the proposal that Kerry is expected to present to Mr. Putin.
Barbara, can you give us any details of this plan? It seems to be getting a lot of pushback before it's even been finalized.
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: It is indeed, Clarissa. The idea here that is being sketched out is, Kerry will present a plan to the
Russian foreign minister, Sergei Lavrov calling for collaboration, that the U.S. and the Russian military will share information targeting
[15:15:06]Maybe even engage in joint air strikes over Syria against both ISIS and Al-Nusra, of course, Al-Nusra being the al Qaeda branch in Syria.
Al-Nusra very much going after the Assad regime. So if the U.S. turns around and also goes after al-Nusra in a big way, which is what the
Russians want that takes the pressure off Assad, and that is a big shift in U.S. foreign policy, U.S. military policy, in this campaign.
This is what the State Department is advocating because they believe that the Russians will be able to convince the Syrians to stop using their own
air forces, and that that will lead to cessation of hostilities.
I think as you know better than anybody, Clarissa, there is a lot of doubt about that. Here at the Pentagon, a short time ago, the press secretary
finished a briefing for reporters and made it very clear that Defense Secretary Ash Carter still maintains a lot of skepticism about all of this,
and is very concerned about getting some Russian guarantees.
Not a good track record in Syria of Russian actions meeting Russian words. So we'll see how this turns out. It's right now kind of a bit of a tug-of-
war, if you will, between the State Department and the Pentagon -- Clarissa.
WARD: And of course we've seen the State Department, many diplomats coming out and writing a letter essentially objecting to certain elements of the
administration's policies in Syria.
But do you have a sense, Barbara, if this deal, if the Russians, if President Putin and Secretary Kerry do come to some kind of an agreement
tonight, when will we expect to see a plan like this implemented on the ground?
STARR: Well, I think there's a very long way to go potentially on this. Kerry and Putin, as you say, meet this evening. Kerry and Lavrov, probably
Kerry then goes on to make other stops in Europe, has to bring the plan back to Washington and get final approval by the president, would have to
get the Pentagon, including the defense secretary and the chairman of the Joint Chiefs to say yes, we agree, it's a good idea and we think it can be
It all really is going to come down to, does it U.S. military feel that the Russian guarantees are sufficient, do they believe they can trust the
Russian military, and will this really result in a fundamental change, is this really going to result in a cessation of hostilities? And there is an
awful lot of doubt about that.
WARD: Indeed, a lot of unanswered questions. Many thanks, Barbara Starr.
WARD: Still to come, Britain gets its Bojo back. Boris Johnson makes a surprising return as Britain's foreign secretary.
And burying the dead. A man shot and killed by police and a police officer shot by a sniper. Both are laid to rest amidst a debate over race in
America. Stay with us.
WARD: Welcome back. Just two weeks ago, he was seen as the frontrunner to be Britain's next prime minister, before dramatically dropping out. Now
Boris Johnson, the man known as Bojo, is back as the country's foreign secretary. As Nic Robertson explains, the man who is now Britain's top
diplomat now, hasn't always been diplomatic.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR (voice-over): Still a little stunned, perhaps from the night before. An unusually silent Boris
Johnson, Britain's new secretary of state for foreign affairs, struggled to get to his vehicle to get to his new job.
A minor snafu in a pantheon of mishaps for which the man affectionately known as the blond bombshell has become known. His pick by the new PM,
Theresa May, is international face of British diplomacy all the more surprising, given his gaffes with Britain's biggest ally, America.
During the heated Brexit campaigning, tossing racially tinged comments, accusing the U.S. president of being part Kenyan and disrespecting
Johnson's hero, Winston Churchill. The next day, Obama shot back.
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Let me start with Winston Churchill.
ROBERTSON: Hillary Clinton has also been the target of his ill-judged ire, accusing her of being like a sadistic nurse in a mental hospital. At the
State Department, arise smile at the announcement of Johnson.
MARK TONER, U.S. STATE DEPARTMENT DEPUTY SPOKESMAN: Well, look, I mean, we are always be able to work with the British no matter who is occupying the
role of foreign secretary.
ROBERTSON (on camera): The special relationship is the partnership between Britain and the United States will get its first face-to-face testing with
Boris Johnson in the next few days. He'll meet with Secretary Of State John Kerry in Brussels this weekend.
(voice-over): In the testing days after the Brexit vote, most pundits had written Johnson off. He voted leave, was victorious, widely expected to
become PM, until a spat with fellow Brexiteers.
New Prime Minister Theresa May brought him back from the dead, her need not to please allies, but bind her fractured party back together, heal the
country's rifts. Across the channel, Britain's closest ally hints at risks to come.
JEAN-MARC AYRAULT, FRENCH FOREIGN MINISTER (through translator): During the campaign, he lied to the British people. Now he has his back against
ROBERTSON: After just a few hours on the job, Johnson taking his critics and his inimitable stride.
BORIS JOHNSON, BRITISH FOREIGN SECRETARY: After a vote like the referendum result on June 23rd, it is inevitable there will be a certain amount of
plaster coming off the ceiling. It wasn't the result that they were expecting and clearly they're making their views known in a frank and
ROBERTSON: What is clear, on his global travels, Johnson won't have to work hard on recognition. It's his reputation he may find requires some
burnishing. Nic Robertson, CNN, London.
WARD: Boris Johnson's appointment was just one of a slew of changes as Britain's new Prime Minister Theresa May molds her government. Let's get
more from Robin Oakley to parse through it all. Robin, I have to ask you Boris Johnson's appointment, stroke of genius or just a terrible idea?
ROBIN OAKLEY, CNN POLITICAL CONTRIBUTOR: It's an interesting part of the whole cabinet building that Theresa May has been producing, because she's
now got three strong Brexiteers, three people who campaigned for Britain to leave the European Union, in those key positions.
Boris Johnson as foreign secretary, Liam Fox as the international trade minister, drumming up new trade outside the European Union, and David
Davis, another former would-be leader of the party, as the actual Brexit minister.
Basically what she's doing is saying, over to you, boys, you wanted Britain out of Europe, now you get the results. And if, as seems inevitable, there
are compromises and difficulties along the way, then it's the Brexiteers who will have to persuade the party that these things have to be done.
It's going to make life a little easier for Theresa May. She can get on with the rest of the agenda that she has set for this government.
WARD: OK, Robin, stay with me because I just want to go through the task of negotiating Britain's exit from the E.U. false to David Davis,
Conservative Party MP and former party chairman. On Monday, he wrote an article on the Conservative home website, saying the U.K., quote, "can do
deals with our trading partners and we can do them quickly."
He says Brexit will deliver the circumstances that allow us to pursue an unfettered high growth strategy. And at all-important issue of triggering
Article 50, Davis says the government should take a little bit of time before that happens.
[15:25:06]He says the ideal outcome is continued tariff-free access within the block. That all sounds very good, Robin, but is it wishful thinking?
OAKLEY: It is, because tariff-free access, you've got to pay a price for it. Why would Britain be given advantages that other European Union
countries don't have? The difficulty has always been, the tradeoff is you're part of the single market, but you have to accept the free movement
Because of the fuss about immigration in Britain and the fact that it was immigration issues which made a lot of people vote against the E.U.,
Theresa May and her new government cannot accept free movement of people.
So what they can get is the best possible trade deal conversant with, you know, ending the free movement of people. That's not going to easy to
achieve, it will be difficult all the way.
The one thing about having Boris Johnson there as foreign secretary, everybody is in gloom and misery and upset over the result.
WARD: At least we can laugh now.
OAKLEY: He's a positive force. He's entertainer in a world when most politicians are anonymous people in suits.
WARD: All right, Robin Oakley, thank you as always for your insights.
We want to share a very special moment with you. The Olympic torch has been snaking its way around Brazil ahead of the games next month. Right
now, one of our own correspondents is getting the chance to carry it. You're looking live at our very own Shasta Darlington.
She and Arwa Damon are both running through the city of Curitiba in the south of the country. You can see them both there, wow, look at that.
This is Arwa Damon running in front there. You see her carrying the torch.
Just an extraordinary moment, such a rare privilege to be a part of that moment. Some of our viewers may not know that Arwa is also an excellent
athlete. And there she is, running along with the Olympic torch.
Both Arwa Damon and Shasta Darlington have been given this incredible privilege, essentially, to be a part of history and carry the torch in that
Southern Brazilian city. Of course, the games kick off in Rio de Janeiro on August 5th. And you can see Arwa still running there. An extraordinary
moment for everyone here at the CNN family.
Still to come, easing America's racial tensions. Police shootings of black men and a deadly attack on police officers have again thrown race relations
into the spotlight. I'll speak with prominent American Professor Cornell West about what can be done.
CLARISSA WARD, CNN INTERNATIONAL GUEST ANCHOR: Welcome back to THE WORLD RIGHT NOW. Let's get a check of headlines this hour. Donald Trump is just
hours away from announcing his vice presidential pick. We're already getting a good idea of who it may be.
Sources say Indiana Governor Mike Pence appears set to get the nod. They say Trump has been moving closer to Pence and the governor has been told to
prepare for his call. The Trump's campaign said a short time ago that no final decision has yet been made.
U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry is in Moscow seeking greater cooperation with Russia on the Syrian peace process. And there is a potential deal in
the works involving joint air strikes against ISIS and the Al-Nusra front. But Defense Secretary Ash Carter is expressing skepticism.
It's been another busy day of political comings and goings in the United Kingdom as new Prime Minister Theresa May shakes up the conservative
government. One of the major casualties is lead Brexiteer, Michael Gove, who has just been removed as the justice secretary.
Investigators in Southern Italy are still trying to figure out what caused a deadly train crash earlier this week. Two train collided head-on on
Tuesday, killing at least 23 people and human error may be to blame. Will Ripley reports from the village of Andria.
WILL RIPLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Police are closely keeping watch over the scene of this horrific crash at this olive grove in Southern Italy, where a
mangled pile of metal and a few partially intact train cars are all that remain of this really awful accident that took 23 lives.
However the investigation is now shifting from the scene here to a multiple manslaughter investigation. We are told there is a team of five
magistrates who are on the case. So far they have announced that three people are officially under investigation.
These are workers at two local train stations, Corato and Andria. They are suspended, which is standard procedure as officials look into whether it
was human error or a technical problem that led to this crash.
Horrible stories coming out. A mother who was found holding her young child, both of them died. But also stories of hope, a 6-year-old boy,
Samuelle (ph), who is still in hospital with his family. He was traveling with his grandparents. They didn't make it, he did.
He celebrated his birthday in his hospital bed, still unaware, we're told, that his grandparents died. There were four crew members, two on each
train. Three of them were killed, one did survive. Police say at some point they do expect to talk to that person.
Meanwhile, a huge show of support from the community, which has overwhelmed blood donation centers to try to help the 50 people who were injured, eight
of them still in serious condition, we're told.
But also from as high up as the Italian president, Sergio Mattarella, who along with many others is expressing his condolences as these families
prepare to bury the dead, funerals beginning on Saturday. Will Ripley, CNN, Andria, Italy.
WARD: His death was streamed live on Facebook by his fiance after he was shot repeatedly by a police officer during a traffic stop. Today, Philando
Castile is being laid to rest. His mother urged mourners to pray for peace. The shocking images of the 32-year-old's death spurred nationwide
protests across the United States.
Mourners also gathered in Dallas for the funeral of Police Sergeant Michael J. Smith. He was one of five officers killed by a sniper last Thursday.
They were working to protect a peaceful protest against police violence when they were attacked.
Racial tensions in the United States are nothing new. But concerns over police violence and profiling have flared in recent years. CNN brought
together people on all sides of the debate for a moving, honest conversation, police officers, victims' families, and mothers who fear for
their children's safety. Here is CNN's Poppy Harlow.
CARLOS ZAMARRIPA, BROTHER OF SLAIN DALLAS OFFICER: He would want peace. He would want good to come out of all of this.
POPPLY HARLOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Two families impacted by last week's violence, coming together. Stressing the need for unity.
ENRIQUE ZAMARRIPA, FATHER OF SLAIN DALLAS OFFICER: This has to stop. By taking another person's life won't make the person come back.
QUINYETTA MCMILLON, MOTHER OF ALTON STERLING'S SON: Violence to violence will never be the answer to nothing. And I think we all come together to
say that we want peace. We want peace for both families.
HARLOW: Activists and law enforcement all joining a candid conversation about whether policing in America is inherently biased against blacks.
K.L. WILLIAMS, KINLOCH, MISSOURI POLICE CHIEF: I have spoken to police officers who have told me that they believe that black people are
genetically predisposed to be criminals and it is their obligation to control these people by whatever means are necessary.
[15:35:08]GARRY MCCARTHY, FORMER SUPERINTENDENT, CHICAGO POLICE DEPARTMENT: The history of African-Americans in this country started with slavery then
it moved to black codes, to segregation. Who was it who was enforcing those racist policies? It was the white police officer. So that narrative
exists in the community based on the history and it's factual.
HARLOW: Questions over how to comply with police dominating the CNN town hall. Many fearful and distrusting.
MONITA BANDELE, SENIOR CAMPAIGN DIRECTOR, MOMSRISING.ORG: Instructing our young people day in and day out that there's something in their behavior
that brings on the abuse is tantamount to telling women that there's something that we do that causes street harassment and rape. We have to
change the culture.
MARK O'MARA, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: We should not have a racial divide in this country anymore but we do. So I say to him, you do put your hands
on the wheel. You do be careful and maybe you do still have to be extra careful because you're black.
CHARLES BLOW, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Can we just take a moment as America and register how profound and immoral it is to say, this is the
only thing that will keep you safe, is that if you pack this toolbox and take it with you everywhere you go, and it's not how everybody has to
But it's how you have to behave, because of you who are, and the do not see you as the person that I love but as the person they should fear.
HARLOW: A heart wrenching moment as one mother shares her fear for her son.
SHARAY SANTORA, HAIRSTYLIST: Every moment he's not with me, I fear for his life. I keep hearing you tell me to tell my son what to do. My 14-year-
old is sitting right there. You tell him he needs to be more respectful. You tell him he needs to be more compliant to your rules and your laws
because I've told him, and obviously it doesn't matter, because you're telling me I'm not telling him enough.
HARLOW: Then this officer comforts her.
DIMITRI ROBERTS, FORMER CHICAGO POLICE OFFICER: I'm sorry that we have not fulfilled our civil duty and our responsibility to you and this community
and your children. And I'm sorry, and I just want to take a moment and say to you, I'm sorry.
WARD: That was Poppy Harlow. Racial tensions can sometimes seem to be America's oldest and most entrenched national challenge. So what can be
Let's bring in Dr. Cornell West, he is a professor at the Union Theological Seminary and a Princeton University professor. He's also a prominent
I would love to start by asking you, you've been quite critical in an op-ed piece today for Britain's "The Guardian" newspaper about President Obama's
handling of this crisis. Where do you think he has got it wrong?
CORNELL WEST, PROFESSOR, UNION THEOLOGICAL SEMINARY: Well, I think you cannot avoid the vicious legacy of white supremacy and the shaping of the
American empire and the shaping of the American experiment and democracy. So that unfortunately he's rarely wanted to take it head on.
He only hits it when he's cornered and he gives a fine speech, his pretty words. But you have to be able to look the problem in the face, the
tradition in the face, and say, OK, in regard to police, you are going to make sure black life has the same value as any other life, which means
police will be accountable.
There will be civilian boards. When police commit murder, they'll go to jail. Zero police go to jail. Hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of black
people who are shot. So it's very clear that you make it a priority that the issue of justice, not black people are some interest group, black
people are some constituency.
I'm the president of all America, no. Are you concerned with justice? That's what we've been calling for. That's what the legacy of Martin
Luther King and Fannie Lou Hammer was all about.
I want all elites no matter what color to be accountable in regard to justice for the least of these, which begins with black and indigenous
peoples, poor whites, brown and so forth.
WARD: But what do you think needs to happen? I understand exactly what you're saying in terms of calling for justice and calling for
accountability. But some of these wounds really appear to be deeper than that.
Do you think there's a sense that America needs to go through some deeper healing beyond just making sure that these policemen go to jail? I mean,
is it as simple as that that you send them to jail and everybody will kiss and make up and skip into the sunset?
WEST: No, no. I'm not saying that police accountability means that you have a kumbaya. I'm saying that sends the message that the lives of black
people have value.
[15:40:01]Now, unfortunately the American empire living in the moment spurs to decline in culture decay so you got agreed and indifference that are in
the driver's seat, especially corporate greed, indifference toward the plight of poor people no matter what color.
But the joy of the present moment is, there is a moral and spiritual awakening. Because what you're pointing to, I think rightly so, is a moral
and spiritual issue. Young people of all colors are part of the black lives movement.
Young people of all colors are fundamentally concerned about the greed and indifference. It's not just in the United States. It could be precious
Palestinians under the Israeli occupation. It could be Jews being mistreated in France. It could be (inaudible) people in India.
This is an international movement that's the kind of democratic awakening concerned about those who are suffering. But it's unfortunately it tends
to be too much a matter of the younger generation.
Those of who of us who are older need to get in on this revival because the elites at the top, be they Donald Trump, neo-fascist catastrophe in the
making, Hillary Clinton, neo-liberal disaster in the making, elites at the top are out of touch.
WARD: They may be out of touch, but I just want to ask you, there are vast swaths of Americans who feel that Black Lives Matter is a racist group,
that it's problematic for a number of reasons. How do you reach out to them, how do you persuade them?
WEST: The Giulianis and others in the world who say Black Lives Matter is inherently racist are simple reinforcing the same kind of indifference
towards the lives of black people. They're saying, in fact, when they say all lives matter, in the past they rarely acknowledged that black lives
That's why "all lives matter" rings shallow and hollow. We know all lives certainly ought to matter. This is the legacy of Martin Luther King again.
But of course, Martin Luther King, would have been the first one to say, in the history of America, slavery, Jim Crow Jr., Jim Crow Sr., lynching,
black lives have rarely mattered in the same way that white lives matter.
So when you say it's inherently racist, it's just another mode of avoidance, another mode of denial, but unfortunately, we have black
leaders, black politicians, neo-liberal ones, from the White House across the board, that use lip service that don't follow through on the ground in
terms me of letting folk know that black lives matter.
That's one of the reasons why he can fly over Baton Rouge and go to Dallas. Baton Rouge, you had black folks suffering. In Dallas you had police
families suffering. All of those individuals precious.
But it was clear where the priority was. That's what many of us are tired of. That's why we continue to try to speak the truth and bear witness.
That's why we're going to stay in the streets and continue to go to jail. That's our tradition.
That's what the love supreme of John Coltrane is all about, to make sure you make justice real for the least of these, the wretched of the earth.
WARD: That's what I wanted to ask you. Where does the Black Lives Matter movement go from here? It has to many people been tarnished by the Dallas
shootings, how does it move forward in a productive way? How can America start to move forward?
WEST: Well, I think I can't speak for the larger Black Lives Matter movement, I'm just a small part of it. But we keep the love at the center
of justice, what love looks like in public. We keep the justice at the center of it.
We sympathize genuinely with the lives of any innocent people, police or whatever. But we also acknowledge that loving black people is something we
are not ashamed of and it is nonnegotiable. That's where the Black Lives movement for me continues to go.
But that's what the struggle for black freedom has always been, my dear sister, going all the way back to Frederick Douglass, Harriet Tubman,
Martin King, Fannie Lou. We've always said our movement is tarnished by various acts of various people.
But we continue because we are committed to something that is grand, something that is transcendent, something that stays in contact with the
humanity of everybody, in every corner of this globe. That's why it's a beautiful thing to be in a struggle for justice, even in these sad moments
in the American empire.
WARD: OK. Keep the love at the center. We'll certainly remember that. Thank you so much, Dr. Cornell West.
We want to take you now back to Annandale, Virginia. As we mentioned, Hillary Clinton is holding a campaign rally there. A potential vice
presidential pick, Tom Kaine, is joining her, the state's governor. Analysts consider him to be a safe VP option. We'll continue to monitor
this. For now, a short break. We'll be right back.
WARD: A survivor of human trafficking is now teaching others of how to spot signs of the illegal trade. She's working with the police in Canada.
Our Clare Sebastian has her story in the latest installment of CNN's Freedom Project.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My life was taken away from me.
CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): When she turned 30, (inaudible) got a tattoo of the letters YYZ on her shoulder, the code for
Toronto Pierson International Airport.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I travel through the airport. Every time I go through, there isn't a moment when I don't think about what happened when I
came. Not one.
SEBASTIAN: It's a symbol of the two Torontos she now inhabits. The city where she found herself forced into the sex trade at the age of 19 and
where, almost two decades later, she helps lead the fight against human trafficking.
For a few days she is letting us into her life on both sides of her city and it's hectic. Her first meeting is with a police sergeant who leads one
of the city's dedicated human trafficking units.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Her self-esteem is exceptionally low.
SEBASTIAN: He and his team need her advice on a victim they're trying to help. Over the past six year, she's trained 14,000 police officers how to
spot the signs of human trafficking.
SERGEANT RON KAPUSCINSID, DURHAM REGIONAL POLICE: We had no idea. She educated us on what we were seeing. At the time, we had no specific unit
that was directly in charge or specifically dealt with human trafficking incidents. And she really did change the way our police service looked at
and investigated human trafficking occurrences.
SEBASTIAN (on camera): We are heading now to the motel where (inaudible) was taken when first arrived in Canada. This will only be the second time
that she's been back here in 18 years.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So that's the entrance.
SEBASTIAN (voice-over): It's a place that's come to signify how important her work with police is. After a chance encounter at a training session.
TIMEA NAGY, SURVIVOR AND ANTI-TRAFFICKING ACTIVIST: It was about three years ago. I asked before the presentation if any officer was a victim. I
asked a gentleman in the back if he could share his story. He said, no, I can't. He comes up to me later, and he was crying.
He goes, I saw you. I was an undercover officer. I was put in a motel to watch for three months for drug operations. I watched you coming and going
out of that motel. How would I know, how was I supposed to know? My heart just sank.
SEBASTIAN: In 2009, Nagy opened Canada's first ever shelter for human trafficking victims. Last year, despite multiple awards and recognition,
it had to close because of a lack of funding.
NAGY: They literally nearly killed me every time I get a message from a victim where they say I can't do this without you. I really appreciate all
the awards. But I just wish that I could save all the lives that are lost, less girls being victimized.
LAURIE SCOTT, MEMBER, LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ONTARIO: The resources given to the police to go in and do the initial rescue is so critical.
SEBASTIAN: She's joined forces with Ontario Regional Parliament member, Laurie Scott to help push through a new bill designed to protect
NAGY: What an honor to be here.
SEBASTIAN: In her whirlwind schedule, she's now tackling the private sector. Teaching American and Canadian bankers to spot the signs of human
NAGY: When they see certain transactions, why do you think it's human trafficking and what do you do with it? It's a huge breakthrough because
bankers and financial institutions can play a huge part in fighting this crime. Thank you for listening.
SEBASTIAN: It's this fight that has given Timea Nagy her life back and her adopted city.
(on camera): Coming back here now, 18 years later, do you have any regrets?
NAGY: None. None at all.
SEBASTIAN (voice-over): Clare Sebastian, CNN, Toronto, Canada.
WARD: Tomorrow we'll take you to the red light district in Amsterdam where a former social worker is teaching trafficking survivors. Partnering with
the anti-trafficking charity, Not For Sale, they opened a restaurant where girls learn culinary skills and start to rebuild their lives. One survivor
tells us how cooking changed her life.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When I moved to the government shelter, it was difficult. I always wanted to kill myself. There was no energy in my
body. Whilst there, I was asked about whether I wanted to go for training. I didn't know what Not For Sale meant.
But afterwards, I gave it some thought and said, you know what, I will have a look for a day to see what it is. I was happy there. And afterwards I
went again. I am always happy when I cook.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WARD: That's tomorrow as part of the CNN's Freedom Project series, all this week on CNN. We'll be right back.
WARD: Millions of us enjoy a nice hot cup of coffee every day, but all that caffeinating makes for quite a lot of waste. One British entrepreneur
has found a good use for it, though. Take a look at "Going Green."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's something about coffee. It's an amazing drink. It's the second most traded commodity on the planet after oil.
In the U.K., there's 500,000 tons of waste coffee grounds each year. In London about 200,000 tons. My name is (inaudible) and I found a way to use
waste coffee grounds to create clean energy.
On a daily basis, the world collects hundreds and hundreds of tons not just from independent coffee shops and chains but large coffee factories who
produce hundreds of tons of waste from a single site.
[15:55:05]We're here in the coffee waste collection van. We're going to go on a route in London and collect from hundreds and hundreds of different
coffee shops, restaurants, offices, train stations, et cetera. How many cups do we get today?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: About 100 cups.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Awesome. Have a good one. To me, I was studying architecture in university and designing a coffee shop and coffee factory.
I was one day having my morning cup of coffee, it was a bit old and had been left out overnight. There was a thin film of oil on top of it.
I thought, there must be something useful in there if there's oil in the coffee. We have a factory in Cambridge where we turn it into carbon
neutral biofuels. One in ten cups of coffee, roughly, we can't quite power all of London, but certainly a small town or large village.
It's a fantastic solution because you save carbon not just by diverting waste from landfill, incinerators, but also you displace conventional
fuels, whether diesel or coal product. You're killing two birds with one stone.
So these are the newest product, coffee logs, more highly calorific than wood. We want to expand that reach and not just one in ten but we want to
recycle half of all the coffee in the U.K. by 2018. There's nothing to say that it couldn't work as well in the United States, in South America, even
in the Far East.
WARD: Is there a Pikachu in London's Piccadilly Circus? If you know what I'm talking about, then you're well aware of Pokemon Go, the Nintendo app
that's been downloaded millions of times in the U.S., Germany, Australia, and New Zealand. Now it's arrived in the U.K. Pokemon Go sends players on
a quest to find animated characters in real life locations.
This has been THE WORLD RIGHT NOW. Thank you so much for watching. "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" is up next.