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Attempted Coup in Turkey; Deadly Attack in South of France. Aired 3-4a ET
Aired July 16, 2016 - 03:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[03:00:00]
BECKY ANDERSON, CNN HOST: We're following two major stories right now. First, chaos in Turkey, an attempted coup there as the military stormed parliament, the airport, major TV networks.
MAX FOSTER, CNN HOST: And in Nice, the aftermath of the deadly Bastille Day attack, where a truck plowed relentlessly through a celebrating crowd, killing 84 people and injuring hundreds of others.
Welcome to our viewers in the United States and around the world. I'm Max Foster.
ANDERSON: And I'm Becky Anderson. And you are watching CNN NEWSROOM.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): This is CNN breaking news.
ANDERSON: And we begin with the bloody coup attempt in Turkey that has killed at least 42 people in Ankara, the capital, and 18 elsewhere. The government slowly reasserting control after Turkish military elements tried to seize power.
At least 1,500 military personnel are now said to be under arrest. A couple of hours ago, the Turkish president told supporters the coup had failed, despite military claims to the contrary.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RECEP TAYYIP ERDOGAN, PRESIDENT OF TURKEY (through translator): This nation brought a certain government, using their own will by election. The government is in control. Fifty percent of the people elected a president and that person is on duty.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: On Friday night, members of the Turkish military bombed government buildings, including parliament.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON (voice-over): This video taken in an airstrike on the parliament building and posted on social media, soldiers also entered our affiliate. CNN Turk, in Istanbul, claiming martial law. The network resumed broadcasting about 45 minutes later after being taken off the air.
And troops stormed Turkey's state-run TRT network, shutting it down. We spoke earlier with the network's news director.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We did manage to get everybody out of the building. Everybody seems to be with OK. They pulled our signal down and we remained down, although my Turkish counterparts in Ankara seem to have gotten their signal back up. But my English language channel hasn't managed to do so.
But it was quite a scary moment. My staff, their phones were confiscated. So it was very hard to get in touch with people after the incident took place. Clearly, a lot of people were shaken up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: The coup, a clear act of rebellion then, against President Recep Tayyip Erdogan's leadership. A closer look for you now at his career leading up to what is this crucial moment.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
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ANDERSON (voice-over): Recep Tayyip Erdogan is the current president of Turkey. He's also co-founder of the ruling Justice and Development Party or AKP. Under Erdogan's rule, Turkey became a regional powerhouse in the Middle East. He was prime minister from 2003 to 2014. Now rules within his own party prevented Erdogan from seeking the post for a fourth term. Then he decided to pursue the presidency.
In August of 2014, he became Turkey's first directly elected president, a role that is mostly ceremonial, at least until now, that is. Erdogan is hoping to strengthen the powers of the presidency by changing the constitution.
[03:05:00]
ANDERSON (voice-over): The voters didn't give him the majority to do so in what was the first 2015 general election. It resulted in a hung parliament followed by anti-government protests and terror attacks.
Erdogan's party regained a parliamentary majority after a snap re- election but it doesn't have enough seats to push through a referendum on any constitutional changes without support from the opposition parties.
Religion appears to be playing an important role for Erdogan. He was active in Islamist circles in the 1970s and the 1980s.
The term "Islamist" refers to those who use a fundamentalist interpretation of Islam to further a political agenda. He was pictured holding Islam's holy book, the Quran, during a campaign rally in 2015. Experts say this is unheard of for a president in Turkey, which is known for being a secular country. But there are other moments shaping Erdogan's presidency. Turkey
joins the U.S.-led coalition fight against ISIS. He has backed Syria's opposition in the fight against Bashar al-Assad's regime and bombed PKK or Kurdistan Workers Party targets in Iraq, targets considered terrorists by the government, causing friction with Turkey's own Kurdish population.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON: Lots of profile for you. Let's get more now on what is this tumultuous situation in Turkey. CNN international correspondent Nima Elbagir joining me now from Nice, where she is on assignment coverage Thursday's Bastille Day attack, reported extensively on it from Turkey over the past couple of years.
Nima, the president says he is in control after what was a bloody and chaotic night. It certainly looks that way.
What happened?
NIMA ELBAGIR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we're now hearing that over 1,500 military officers have been arrested and that does lend credence, finally, to the claims that we've been hearing from the president and his allies throughout the evening, that he is in control. Whether he is fully in control, though, of course, remain to be seen.
The signs, though, are perhaps a bit more positive for him than it was overnight, when both Istanbul and Ankara were rocked with explosions. We were hearing from eyewitnesses about consistent gunfire.
The president's own adviser confirming to us that they had to shoot down by a military jet one of the helicopters that they said had been commandeered by what they're calling the coup plotters.
If this had been a coup -- and this is what the president is saying it is -- the precedent is very clear. Turkish military have stepped in four times at times of political and security turmoil. And this has definitely been over the last year a time of both political and security turmoil.
You spoke a little bit about the demonstrations that came in the aftermath of the hung parliament. But we also have seen terror attacks rocking Turkey over the last eight to nine days, having a real impact on the president's allies (INAUDIBLE) and also on President Erdogan's popularity himself, I should say, but also on the sense that his control over the country was perhaps not what it needed to be, given that it had some 800 kilometers of a border with Syria and nearly over 300 with Iraq.
Turkey is a key NATO ally and key in the coalition that's fighting the war against ISIS. So this -- these first signs that the government is retaining some semblance of control will be met, I imagine, by some exhalations of breath in Washington and London -- Becky.
ANDERSON: Yes, absolutely. All right, Nima. Thank you for that. Turkey has seen coups before, of course. For more let's get to Fawaz
Gerges now. He's the author of "ISIS: A History" and is chairman of contemporary Middle East studies at the London School of Economics.
We heard from the president, surrounded by his supporters in the past couple of hours. He's accused the plotters of trying to assassinate him on Friday night but says he is now in control.
Fawaz, how do you assess what has been going on in Turkey overnight?
FAWAZ GERGES, DIR. MIDDLE EAST CENTER, LONDON SCHOOL OF ECONOMICS: Well, obviously, This was one of the most serious coups d'etat to be carried out since 1997 by the military.
As you know, for your own viewers, Becky, the military has repeated intervened in Turkish politics; 1960, 1971, 1980 and 1997 and now 2016. The military views itself as the guardian of the constitution, the guardian of the secular democracy in Turkey.
Obviously, this was a failed coup, it's a small faction within the military that has failed to seize the major --
[03:10:00]
GERGES: -- power centers inside Ankara and Istanbul. But it was a very close call. And regardless whether the Erdogan government is in control or not, it tells you how polarized, how deeply polarized Turkey is at this particular moment, ideologically, socially and ethnically. And I hope that this would be a wake-up call for President Erdogan and the leadership to begin a new chapter in terms of reconciliation and putting their house in had order.
ANDERSON: The government is saying this wasn't a coup. They say it was a full-scale terror campaign against the people, against the elected government and against the army itself, they say.
We have a lot of people suggesting this could even have been a fake coup. Look, you talk about the need for a new chapter. I have been interested to see this sort of reach-out that the Turkish authorities have been making of late to those who, in the recent past, they considered their foes -- and I'm talking Russia, I'm talking Israel, possibly even Egypt.
Are you satisfied that, at this point, there is a clear indication that things -- that the Erdogan presidency, as it were, has realized it needs to extend the olive branch, as it were, to those in the international community that might be able to help at this point?
GERGES: You know, Becky, we're talking about three levels: the internal level, the domestic level, the regional level and the international level. President Erdogan, sadly, has made many enemies internally, domestically. regionally and internationally.
And yes, Turkey, in the past few weeks, has been trying to overhaul its foreign policy in terms of reconciliation with Israel, in terms of reconciliation with Russia and also some measures towards Egypt. But the reality is, I would say, the most important measure that
President Erdogan can and should take is internally because the situation is very polarized.
Many critics of President Erdogan fault him for his crackdown against free speech, against open society, for his concentration of power in his own hands, his crackdown against the judiciary.
And one of the lessons that we have taken, Becky, in the last 24 hours -- and this is really a very important lesson to me -- is that the major oppositional parties in Turkey, the secular party and even the Kurdish parties, have come out in support of the democratically elected government in Turkey, even though they are fiercely opposed to President Erdogan.
This is a very goodwill gesture on the part of the opposition. And that's why this is the time for President Erdogan not only to begin a new chapter regionally, toward Russia and Israel and Egypt and even neighboring countries, but domestically. This is deactivating the cultural, the ethnic and the ideological minefields that have been opened up in Turkey in the past five years.
ANDERSON: You make some very good points.
Fawaz Gerges, a regular guest on CNN, always a pleasure. Thank you.
And we're going to take a very short break. Before that, let's get you to Nice.
FOSTER: Becky, we are hearing some quite horrific stories really about what happened here on Thursday night. And we're going to bring you the story of the couple, who were actually here on the promenade as that truck came thundering through and killing something like 84 people, possibly more if the numbers go up.
We'll have details on that. And also new details about the suspect behind that awful attack. And we'll talk with an expert, rather challenges of fighting radicalization in France and across the world.
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[03:15:00]
FOSTER: Welcome back to you. We are learning new details about the suspect behind the terror attack that killed 84 people here in Nice, France. French officials have named him as Mohamed Lahouaiej Bouhlel. He was the man who plowed a rented truck through crowds celebrating the French national holiday. Police shot dead the 31-year-old man.
He was born in Tunisia. Officials searched his apartment in Nice, though, on Friday and took his ex-wife or his estranged wife into custody. The French prosecutor says there were no signs that he was radicalized but he was known to police for minor crimes. The Promenade des Anglais here was packed with families, who had been watching Bastille Day fireworks when the attack happened. Will Ripley walks us through what is usually an idyllic tourist spot, now turned into the site of mourning.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WILL RIPLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The Promenade des Anglais is one of the most iconic and beautiful spots along the French Riviera. But you can see people were out last night on a road that was quite narrow. So when the truck was coming through and there were people on either end, it would have been very difficult for them to escape.
Adding to that, of course, vehicles that were here watching the fireworks and stages that were set up for entertainment as well.
People are gathering here to see the spontaneous memorial which continues to grow. And they are filling the streets. You get a sense of what it must have been like last night when there were people packed on the promenade.
We talked to a 19-year-old from Morocco, who says he was in the middle of the crowd and he just saw the truck, the white truck, barreling towards him. He didn't know where to hide, so he just had to jump behind the first thing he could see.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People dead on the floor. It's not even -- there was even blood, people who are injured and who needed help. But no one could help them because everyone was afraid.
RIPLEY: People just got up and started running. They jumped into restaurants, a museum and a lot of them in hotel lobbies, where they could take shelter.
There was so much fear, so much adrenaline, people say they didn't even think, they just jumped over the edge of this seawall. It's a good 10 feet down to the beach below. And you can see there were families here with young children. I can count two baby strollers there; children's items are scattered all over the place. There were so many families out here.
And today, what would normally be a very full beach at the height of the holiday season here on the beautiful French Riviera, it's empty, this beach closed as France reels from yet another devastating attack -- Will Ripley, CNN, Nice, France.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOSTER: I'm joined here by Cincha Lambert (ph) and her husband, John.
You were both here, weren't you, actually very close to where we are now, which is where the truck stopped.
Is that right?
CINCHA LAMBERT (PH), WITNESS: Yes.
FOSTER: Describe what you saw.
CINCHA LAMBERT (PH): Well, we were walking on the promenade and I was busy filming. They were walking ahead. I'm always lagging behind. I was filming the vibe, the atmosphere with my iPhone.
And as I turned the camera back around towards the Negresco, because I backed towards the Negresco hotel, I stopped filming because I saw a truck basically mowing over people and coming my way.
So I wasn't really sure if this was real or if this was an accident. He took the wrong turn. But when he started zigzagging with full force --
[03:20:00]
CINCHA LAMBERT (PH): -- and coming directly at me, I realized this was deliberate and he was --
(CROSSTALK)
FOSTER: You realized as he was moving --
CINCHA LAMBERT (PH): Oh, yes.
(CROSSTALK)
CINCHA LAMBERT (PH): -- already in the middle of the street. And so I am shaking as I talk about it because it's the first time we're back here in a while. So, yes, he was coming towards me.
And as he was zigzagging with force, I wasn't sure, do I jump to the left or jump to the right?
Making split decisions in seconds; I looked at these posts over here because I thought if they're made of wood and he hits it, it could buckle. But if it's made of steel, then maybe I just might be OK.
For some reason, I jumped to the left. I don't remember how I got there. I was in between the posts and he flashed past me. And then I realized, as I turned to the right, after I saw a woman flying right in front of me, hitting the ground, I realized but what about John?
Because he was ahead of me. And I just saw this big white truck taking over the entire street. And I thought, there's no way he made it. I don't see anyone anymore.
FOSTER: John, you are thankfully here.
JOHN LAMBERT (PH), WITNESS: Yes, I am.
FOSTER: What was happening to you then?
JOHN LAMBERT (PH): I was maybe 20 meters ahead of her, taking photos of another hotel when I must have heard something because I turned my head to the left and I just saw this truck coming down.
I saw people flying left, right and center. And I realized that Cincha (ph) must be -- she must be run over because there was not enough space in between me and the truck for her to have survived that.
So I was just facing this truck coming straight towards me. And I realized I have to -- I have to somehow just save my own life.
So I took a few steps back up on the curb, so I realized I was -- I couldn't throw myself into safety if I had to. And then he made a swerve slightly to the right and I got a good sight of the driver, a young guy, very just focused on what he was doing, just purposely trying to hit as many people as possible.
FOSTER: So even then, you could see that he was purposefully --
JOHN LAMBERT (PH): Oh, yes.
FOSTER: -- driving towards the thicker part of the crowd.
JOHN LAMBERT (PH): Yes. And he was aiming for a candy stand, where you had lots of children, lots of families, just basically picking out candy. And he drew straight through that. Just there were people and things just flying.
FOSTER: What did you see in his eyes?
JOHN LAMBERT (PH): Focus. He was focused. He wasn't angry. He wasn't -- he looked like I would look if I'm in front of my computer, being focused on something. That's what he was doing and just aiming and aiming well at people.
FOSTER: In terms of the moment afterwards, I know this could be -- you haven't been here, have you, since?
CINCHA LAMBERT (PH): No.
FOSTER: And the scene around you and the fact that it could have been you, how are you dealing with that now?
CINCHA LAMBERT (PH): That's pretty difficult to deal with because that woman that fell in front of me, my first instinct was to reach out and help her and then I pulled my hand back because I realized that I need to get out of there and where is my husband.
When we stopped and we found each other, to see all those bodies lying there, we thought -- we said, I said to my mother-in-law, his mom, we have to help them. And then we hugged each other.
But then we heard the gunshots. And then we thought, OK, well, this is not over. We weren't sure who was shooting at whom. But then it felt like the gunshots were getting closer and that's when we realized we need to run. So we just started running.
FOSTER: You got together by that. CINCHA LAMBERT (PH): Yes, at that time in the middle of the street here.
FOSTER: Can we learn anything from this?
I know you're just dealing with what happened there. There are lots of questions being asked about what the police could have done, what the president could have done.
What are your thoughts?
JOHN LAMBERT (PH): My thoughts are there is -- on the 14th of July, there is one place basically in each city where you have crowds, one crowd like here. It would have been rather easy to just have more reinforcement.
We saw that military afterwards. We saw the SWAT teams and whatnot. But we didn't see them until after. And there was not really that much police as we could see --
(CROSSTALK)
CINCHA LAMBERT (PH): -- yes, we've been here through the UEFA. And we've seen quite a lot of police. And I know it's been quite difficult dealing with the UEFA. We see them all the time. And we did think we were going to see a lot more here on that evening.
We didn't. We saw a lot of people on bikes. We weren't sure if they were the good guys or the bad guys. Ad now we realize some people tried to actually stop the truck. And we really -- I mean, yes, it's hard to watch that.
FOSTER: Well, we're very glad you're here and thank you for speaking to us (INAUDIBLE) your thoughts on this and I hope you come to terms with it somehow.
CINCHA LAMBERT (PH): Thank you.
FOSTER: Well, we're going to try to bring you much more around this story and, really, what it means, looking forward, as well, how it could be prevented. We'll do that in just a moment.
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[03:25:00]
FOSTER: Welcome back. We're getting more details about the man behind the terror attack that killed 84 people behind me in this French resort town of Nice. Officials say Mohamed Lahouaiej Bouhlel plowed a truck through crowds celebrating Bastille Day. The 31-year old was a Nice resident but he was born in Tunisia. He was shot dead by police just behind me.
Officials have searched his apartment, they detained his ex-wife. The French prosecutor says there were no signs that he was radicalized but he does have a record for minor crimes.
Julia Edner (ph) joins us now from London. She's a policy analyst with The Quilliam Foundation, which a counterextremism think tank.
And if someone hasn't been radicalized and they have only been picked up for minor crimes, there's no way that the authorities could have picked up on this, could they?
JULIA EDNER (PH), THE QUILLIAM FOUNDATION: Yes, that's true. So far, they haven't found any extremist materials at home in his home or in his lorry. But that doesn't mean that he hasn't been radicalized because there's so many different pathways into extremism these days. And really just by watching mainstream media, he could have picked up on the narrative that Islamic State or other terrorist organizations are spreading.
So we don't really know how he became radicalized. But the symbolic -- it was such a symbolic act and also the use of the vehicle, which is something that I looked at Hekmati (ph), the spokesperson of ISIS, called before to use, indicates that there must have been some form of Islamist extremism involved.
FOSTER: But we're talking about Islamic extremism and the authorities here are talking about it and they're talking about radicalization.
[03:30:03] But they haven't discovered any links with ISIS or other groups. And we're told that he wasn't religious. He didn't go to a mosque by his neighbors.
So why is this narrative being encouraged when there isn't the evidence there for it?
It could have just been a madman.
JULIA EDNER (PH), THE QUILLIAM FOUNDATION: Yes. That is true. There have been no formal links, at least discovered so far, to any networks. So operationally, he might have been independent.
But that doesn't mean that he didn't have any ideological inspiration from online propaganda. But of course there's a difference between Islam as an individual faith and Islamist extremism. And one doesn't have to be a devout Muslim to become an Islamist extremist.
In fact, most people who went to Syria aren't. And you would probably not even find a Quran in their homes.
FOSTER: So if it does turn out they did have links and we can call it radicalization, is there something different about this attack that we can learn from and prepare for in future?
EDNER (PH): Yes. I think one of the most important things that these attacks show us is that we cannot securitize or legalize our way out of these threats. The French security forces have been operating 24/7. They have done a really good job in securing the euro.
But we have to take a step back and look at the prevention of extremism, preventing people from developing grievances, from radicalizing, from being polarized by narratives, both by the far right and Islamist extremists.
FOSTER: But doesn't this come down to something which is much bigger than security?
And the area that specialists like yourself are working in it's actually a societal issue, wondering why people are looking for something else in the first place, which is disenfranchisement, right?
EDNER (PH): Yes, precisely. So taking a more preventative and, as you're saying, it's much bigger, taking a full-spectrum approach that involves civil society resistance against these -- both against the propaganda or -- of Islamic State but also against the narratives that the far right is currently spreading, that Marine Le Pen is spreading in France and Trump is spreading in the U.S., for example.
FOSTER: OK, Julia, thank you very much, indeed.
We've also got Melissa Bell. She's an international affairs editor with France 24. She joins us from Paris.
And President Hollande is imminently holding a Security Council meeting as we understand it. He's got to somehow come out of that and show the French public that he's got a handle on this.
But reality is, no one has, have they?
MELISSA BELL, FRANCE 24: No one has. But at times like this, of course, Max, in (INAUDIBLE) back in November is a peaceful (INAUDIBLE) January, words appear (INAUDIBLE) a sense that he has control of the situation matters enormously.
And in times like these, he has proven himself over the course of the last 18 months to be a remarkably effective communicator. So that security meeting is to get under way. It would involve him, his prime minister, the interior minister, the justice secretary but also the chief of the general staff and members of France's intelligence services.
It's the second in two days, Max, an indication of how seriously the French president is taking this, how seriously he wants to be seen to be taking this and they're adding onto that something slightly different compared to (INAUDIBLE). He will be speaking, meeting with (INAUDIBLE) immediately after that meeting, with all of his ministers as well.
FOSTER: I've just been speaking to a couple, who narrowly missed being killed by this truck on Thursday night. And their point is that they saw lots of security around the Euro championships. And we knew that was going to be the case.
But they didn't see lots of security here for another event, where we knew lots of people were going to come out and be vulnerable.
So is there a level of criticism that's justified against the police and the government because they may be preparing for the big flagship international events but not necessarily for the other events?
BELL: There is this row that's been brewing over the course of the last 36 or so hours between (INAUDIBLE) was the president of the region in which you find yourself, Max. He was, until very recently, the mayor of Old Nice.
And he's always been very security conscious. He's a right-wing politician who's made the security of Nice really the pillar of his political popularity. And Nice has more policemen per inhabitants than any other city in France, bar Marseille. It has more video cameras than any other city in France.
He's really sought to make it --
[03:35:00]
BELL: -- as safe as you possibly can (INAUDIBLE). In fact, in time for the Euro 2016 championship, he wanted to introduce this new facial recognition system that would have allowed security services on those cameras to recognize anyone who had what the French call a fichette (ph), that is that they're following for security reasons. Now of course it wouldn't have helped in the case of (INAUDIBLE) attacks since the man in question was not known to intelligence services. He was a petty criminal, he was not being watching as a potential terror suspect.
But it gives you an idea of how seriously the town of Nice has taken this. It is considered one of the most closely watched in France, one of the most secure, one where security has been really placed at the fore. And yet it is in this city that this was able to take place.
(INAUDIBLE) he has been voicing his anger with the French government over the course of the (INAUDIBLE), saying, yes, I've done all this as the city's mayor but you, the government, the national government, didn't give me the means to go as far as I would have liked. And he's been very forthright (INAUDIBLE) to Francois Hollande about the lack of support he felt that he could have been given in that respect.
FOSTER: OK, Melissa, we'll be back with you through the day and we're waiting to hear what the president has to say after that meeting as well. Thank you very much indeed.
The victims came from all over the world. Many weren't from France; actually, also people from Germany and Russia, Switzerland, Algeria, Tunisia, the U.S. and Britain, amongst other nationalities. And we're just starting to find out about the names of those who were killed.
The two Americans are Sean Copeland and his 11-year-old son, Brodie. They were on a European vacation from their home in Texas. Russian news reports say university students Victoria Savchenko (ph) was also killed along with a German teacher and two of her students.
We'll have more on the victims and their lives as we get more information.
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[03:40:00]
FOSTER: Welcome back to the seafront in Nice, where terror struck less than 48 hours ago as a truck plowed through dozens of people, killing them. And we've been hearing from people who were here on that night throughout the morning. And we heard from a cab driver who came and saw the aftermath.
He criticized the French government for not doing enough to protect French people. We just heard from some Swedish tourists as well who were here, saying there just wasn't the security that they would have expected of a big public event like that.
We're now joined from Paris by French lawmaker, Jacques Meiart (ph). He's from the Republican Party.
And, Jacques (ph), obviously, there's a lot of pressure on the president right now and I'm sure you've got some opinions around that.
But in terms of the criticism of how this has been handled, how can you really criticize the authorities and the government for what appears to be a very random attack to someone that, so far, we don't think was radicalized in any way -- at least there's no evidence for it -- and who wasn't on the police radar for serious crimes?
JACQUES MEIART (PH), FRENCH LAWMAKER: Well, I tell you frankly, I think this is kind of thing that is very difficult to prevent because he is very likely has been acting solely. He well prepared his coup. And of course, up to which we had 84 deaths.
So I think that is not a question of intelligence, it's not a question of intelligence information. But I think this is a question of society because, you know, radicalism -- I think he is radicalized.
Of course until now, we don't have the proof, the clues that he has been radicalized. But he's been acting the way that daish, the Islamic State, is ordering to do. So I think that in fact, even if he has no direct link with those Islamic State peoples, I do believe that he have been franchised (ph), that he has been intellectually guided by them.
So I think this is the kind of thing that we have to respond on a collective way. We have methods in France, part of them, but they are now, you know, quite 10,000 which -- who are in the way of radicalism.
A part of them, I say, just behaving if they are (INAUDIBLE), they are enemies of France. It don't behave as French citizens.
So I think we have to react on this basis. It's a question of society, how is it that in France, people who are on the paper French, acting against France, attitudes France, habits France, laws (ph), et cetera.
So I think is something we have to prevent by hiding (ph) from the school (ph) on and, of course, because we have a bad economic situation, it meant also increased frustration for those people.
We have been lax. We have lax in our way to teach France history. We have been lax in the way that we've been teaching the principle of security in France, et cetera. So this is a collective approach we should have today.
And of course, we must take security measures. We have borders which are inapparent (ph), inefficient. We should also expel some abroad all those binationals who are radicalists and we have to be very severe, very tough on those measures.
But I stress the main point; I think this is a collective attitude we should have and to teach what is France and of those who don't like this France, they have to go out.
FOSTER: OK. Jacques (ph), thank you very much indeed for that.
So Becky, we've got political fallout here, security fallout as well. The state of emergency is now continuing in this heavily armed military on the streets here. And it's a real presence. And that's something that France didn't have a few months ago and it's something that now feels pretty normal.
BECKY ANDERSON, CNN HOST: Yes. All right, Max, thank you very much indeed for that. And more from Max coming up.
First, though, Turkey's president promising that the leaders of an attempted military coup will pay a heavy price. Recep Tayyip Erdogan spoke to supporters a short time ago, a few hours after members in his own military tried to seize control of the country. Tanks rolled through the streets of Ankara and Istanbul overnight, pushing through crowds.
[03:45:00]
ANDERSON: Gunfire and explosions (INAUDIBLE) 60 dead, 1,000 others wounded.
Even the parliament building in Ankara came under attacks, sustaining damage from a reported bomb. Hours later, video shows soldiers surrounding and surrendering en masse.
A source within the president's office tells CNN Turkish authorities have detained more than 1,500 military personnel across the country. Cyril Vanier (ph) joining us now from Paris and Ankara international correspondent for France 24.
We know what happened overnight. Remarkable to see this play out on our television screens. What we don't know is what happens next -- false (ph).
CYRIL VANIER (PH), FRANCE 24: Well, I think, number one, if you're Recep Tayyip Erdogan, you have to do the autopsy of this failed coup attempt.
Who tried to oust him? Where do they get their support from?
How many exactly?
And there's probably going to be a purge. And it has begun, 1,500 soldiers have been rounded up. Recep Tayyip Erdogan is no strangers to purges. He's done it before in other branches of government and the state authority that's been in police; it's been within the judiciary. That's going to happen again.
Number two, politically, how does this play out?
What's the fallout?
At this stage, it's very difficult to tell what his calculus is going to be and what's going to best serve the president's interests. He's going to be looking at the opposition.
Does it push him towards more unity?
He's somebody who has ruled with an iron hand in the past and that tends to be his reflex.
ANDERSON: Yes, conciliation isn't his middle name, is it?
Let's talk about that in a moment. I want to come back to those who may have been behind this attempt coup.
We know that 1,500 people have been arrested overnight. They, it seems, are lowish level soldiers. I think there are five colonels, a number of -- sorry, five generals, a number of colonels and even some high court judges.
But it seems as if the majority of those who have been arrested were low-level soldiers involved in the attempted coup.
If it's likely that Erdogan is going to crack down on the leaders of this coup, who are they?
VANIER (PH): Well, he has pointed the finger of blame squarely at the -- at Fethullah Gulen, who's now become a rival, with a former ally of Erdogan, who helped him come to power, shore up his power base in the early 2000s, in 2003, when he came to power.
The Gulen Brotherhood, the -- is sometimes called the state within the state because it got a lot of support with various branches of government, the judiciary, the police, the court system, et cetera, et cetera, which they have since turned against Recep Tayyip Erdogan. We saw that when his camp and he himself were accused of corruption not that long ago. And that's why I was referring to purges earlier because that's when he -- it took a very hard look at those branches of government; a lot of heads rolled at that point -- a figure of speech, of course. And that is who they have in their sights at present.
ANDERSON: Well, if there were a bright spot in what has happened overnight, it is that the opposition has been as critical of this attempted coup against an elected government, a democratically elected government.
And as President Erdogan has been -- given the current mess that is domestic politics, but the fact that as we've both just discussed, this isn't a man who does conciliation.
What prospect for a better future for the domestic economy, for domestic politics?
And we know that there is an insurgency being waged at present, a conflict between Kurdish factions and primarily President Erdogan and his group.
VANIER (PH): Look, the president is going to take a hard look at what best serves his interest in terms of the economy and in terms of politics. He's not somebody who's really prone to compromise.
The good thing is that everybody, including the opposition, as you said, really don't want to roll back the main thing that they've gained in Turkey over the last 20 years, which is the rule of law and democracy.
And even though they accuse Recep Tayyip Erdogan of making that weaker in Turkey, he still has been democratically elected and everybody across the board prefers that. So that's a good point for him.
He now wants to consolidate his power. It was the case before this attempted coup. He's likely to continue to want to do that. Remember, he was prime minister for 10 years. Now that he's president, he wants to make Turkey a presidential regime, change the constitution to get that done and widen his power base and his powers there.
So he's probably going to further his efforts to make this a presidential regime and increase his powers.
ANDERSON: We'll be -- what may happen in the days and months to come and the hours to come, things still relatively unclear at this point.
Cyril, thank you for that.
We are continuing to follow developments in Turkey after an overnight coup attempt. The latest after this.
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ANDERSON: Well, we are continuing to follow developments in Turkey for you following the overnight coup attempt there. President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has addressed crowds in Istanbul and claims the coup has been quashed.
He said the Turkish people have taken the military's tanks back. Officials say at least 60 people are dead and at least 1,000 people are hospitalized. CNN's Natalie Allen now shows how it all unfolded on Twitter.
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NATALIE ALLEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): CNN tweets on the attempted coup began at 11:30 pm local time in Turkey with the reported statement by the prime minister that Turkish military units are attempting an uprising.
Just before midnight, CNN showed Twitter video of a military jet flying extremely low over the Turkish capital of Ankara.
At 12:07 am, the Turkish military says it has taken control, according to Reuters; 40 minutes later, CNN tweeted, "Turkish military has taken over the government and imposed martial law, according to an announcement read on Turkish TV."
Then just after 1:00, CNN tweets, "The Turkish president is urging people to take to the --
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ALLEN (voice-over): "-- streets, to stand up to the military."
His message had been conveyed through a FaceTime address on the phone of a CNN Turk anchor.
At 1:23 am local time, "CNN reports gunfire heard in streets amid military coup attempt in Turkey." That confusion and chaos continued for some time.
Then just after 3:00 am, CNN tweets that "Turkey's national intelligence unit claims the coup is over. But confrontations between military and demonstrators continue."
At 3:47 am, CNN Turk anchor reports, "Soldiers have entered the building. That's it. We now have to go."
Then at 5:00 am, CNN tweets "President Erdogan says law enforcement has started arresting military officers.'
By 5:26 am, CNN Turk was back on the air after being shut down briefly.
And at dawn, Turkey's president tells a large crowd in Istanbul, "The government is in control." -- Natalie Allen, CNN.
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ANDERSON: It's a busy time for news. You're watching CNN. We'll be back after this.
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ANDERSON: We are following two major stories this hour, the uncertain situation in Turkey following Friday's overnight coup attempt. Military forces have been on the streets. But they have been confronted by thousands of people and the president says the attempted coup has failed.
FOSTER: Whilst in the south of France here, we --
