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Interview With U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry; Interview With RNC Chairman Reince Priebus; Donald Trump Picks Governor Mike Pence As V.P.; War With ISIS; Hillary Clinton's Possible V.P. Pick; Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg As Notorious RBG In This Week's "State of the Cartoonion". Aired 9-10a ET

Aired July 17, 2016 - 09:00   ET



JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, Cleveland. We are live inside the arena on the eve of what promises to be a convention like no other.


DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The convention's going to be terrific. We have fantastic speakers.


TAPPER: What to expect this week, as Donald Trump takes his biggest stage yet.

Plus, Pence is the pick.


GOV. MIKE PENCE (R-IN), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I accept your invitation to run and serve as vice president of the United States of America.


TAPPER: After a confusing rollout, Donald Trump chooses his running hate with his head, not his gut. Could it backfire?

And world on fire, a violent attempt to overthrow the government of Turkey, as the president there tries to take control via FaceTime, this while dozens cling to life after the devastating terrorist attack in nice, France. What can the U.S. do? Secretary of State John Kerry will be here in minutes, plus the best political minds live from Cleveland with insights from the campaign trail.



Pardon me.

I'm Jake Tapper, live in Cleveland for the Republican National Convention, where the state of our union today is, frankly, in turmoil.

With the major security event about to get under way here, the global landscape is quite turbulent. Eighteen people are hovering between life and death in France after that deadly attack in the coastal city of Nice that killed 84 other innocent people. French officials now saying that the man who murdered them all texted an unknown recipient just before the attack, saying -- quote -- "Bring more weapons. Bring to C" -- unquote.

Four of his associates were arrested over the weekend, this while Turkey is roiling after a violent and confusing weekend. Turkish President Erdogan saying he is back in control after an attempt to overthrow his government in the middle of the night.

He claims his rival Fethullah Gulen, who is living in self-imposed exile in Pennsylvania masterminded the entire thing. He says that without preventing any evidence of what now he's demanding, that President Obama turn him over.

Gulen responded by suggesting that the coup may have been staged by Erdogan himself. It is a messy situation in a country that is a vital U.S. ally in the war against ISIS.

And joining me now is Secretary of State John Kerry, who is Luxembourg, on his way to Brussels.

Mr. Secretary, thank you so much for joining us.

Let's start with the attempted coup in Turkey. More than 200 people have been killed since the uprising began. Operations at the U.S. air base have been halted. Power's been cut. Our troops there are operating off of military generators. Five military facilities in Turkey have been placed at the highest alert level.

This seems to show a huge level of disrespect. Who is responsible for this? Is it Erdogan?

JOHN KERRY, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: Jake, we don't have all the details of what has happened with respect to the coup.

What we do know is this. I talked three times yesterday with the foreign minister of Turkey. They assure me that there will be no interruption of our counter-ISIL efforts. It is a fact that there were difficulties at Incirlik.

But, apparently, there may have been some refueling that took place with the Turkish air force with planes that were flying in the coup itself. And I think that has something to do with what's taken place there. It's not focused on us.

They have absolutely assured us of their commitment to the fight against Da'esh. Their foreign minister will be coming to Washington with their defense minister in three days for a major conference that we have with 45 countries, foreign ministers, defense ministers, to keep pushing forward on the strategy against Da'esh. So, Jake, I expect that operations will get back to normal very

quickly. But we don't know the details of the coup. And I think the Turkish government itself is trying to figure out the full measure of who was involved and how.

TAPPER: Has this affected the fight against ISIS, or, as you call it, Da'esh?

KERRY: No, it has not.

According to our commanders, there might have been a minor delay here or there or something, but it has not affected the fundamental direction or commitment to the fight.


TAPPER: As you know, on Saturday, the president of Turkey, Erdogan, demanded that the U.S. arrest or hand over one of his enemies, Fethullah Gulen, the person he is holding responsible for this coup, who is living in self-imposed exile in the Poconos in Pennsylvania.

Is the U.S. going to comply with this demand for extradition?

KERRY: Well, first of all, we have not had a formal request for extradition. That has to come in a formal package.

It has to come with documentation for the request and go to the Justice Department. And we will deal with it. I made it very, very clear to the foreign minister of Turkey yesterday, the United States is not harboring anybody. We're not preventing anything from happening.

We have never had a formal request for extradition, and we have always said, give us the evidence. Show us the evidence. We need a solid, legal foundation that meets the standard of extradition in order for our courts to approve such a request.

So, we're waiting for that. They tell us they are putting it together and will send it to us. But we think it's irresponsible to have accusations of American involvement, when we're simply waiting for their request, which we're absolutely prepared to act on if it meets the legal standard.

TAPPER: Did U.S. intelligence have any idea that this attempted coup was about to happen?

KERRY: I don't think anybody's intelligence had information, particularly the Turkish intelligence. The answer is no.

This is -- the nature of a coup, you rarely have indicators that something's about to happen.

TAPPER: Let's turn now, if we can, sir, to the terrorist attack in Nice on Saturday. ISIS claimed responsibility for inspiring that horrific truck attack that killed 84 people, wounding more than 200.

Does the U.S. have any intelligence to back up this claim by ISIS that it, at the very least, inspired the attack?

KERRY: Well, there is public information that has been leaking out from France from the investigation itself regarding a -- quote -- "very rapid period of radicalization."

We know, obviously, what everybody now knows publicly, that he was a Tunisian who was given permission to live in France. But we have -- we had no knowledge of him as a radicalized individual. And, at this point in time, we're waiting for the investigators, and we're helping the investigation in any way that is possible.

Our hearts go out to everybody in France. This is the third major terrorist attack in France. It's very, very difficult for the French people. We understand that. There are 85 people in the hospital now, 20-plus in the intensive care unit.

So, we are working with the French to try to put the pieces together, but, you know, this is one of those things, Jake, it's worse than the needle in a haystack. If you have no indications of somebody, and you don't have any track record of radicalization, and, all of a sudden, over a week or in some period, somebody with apparent mental problems anyway decides to go do great harm to people, it is not hard to do that.

And governments and law enforcement have to be able to get this right every hour, every day, 24 hours a day, seven days a week, 365 days a year. If you're a terrorist, and particularly of -- of, you know, one or two days' vintage, you can just go out and do something very easily.

What we believe this indicates, however, is that Da'esh, ISIL, in Syria and Iraq is under great, great pressure. And people are acting out in various places. But they are not growing in their ability to do things. They are shrinking.

We have taken back 40 percent, 45 percent of the territory they held in Iraq. We're squeezing town after town. We have liberated communities. We're making progress now advancing on Mosul. In Syria, likewise, they're not able to attack and hold towns. They are on the run.

And I believe what we're seeing are the desperate actions of an entity that sees the noose closing around it.

TAPPER: Well, with all due respect, sir, I'm not sure that it looks that way to the public, that ISIS is on the run. In just the last few weeks, we have seen...

KERRY: Well, obviously.

TAPPER: ... a series of ISIS-inspired attacks, 49 killed in Orlando, 45 killed in Istanbul at the airport, more than 200 killed in Baghdad, 84 in Nice.

This is just the last five weeks. I don't think ISIS is on the run. They might be expanding. (CROSSTALK)


KERRY: Well, Jake, it depends on where you mean ISIS.

I don't know if this guy was actually ISIS, and nor do you. And we don't know that the guy in Orlando was fundamentally ISIS, nor even told what to do by ISIS.

If people are inspired, they're inspired. But ISIL, which is based in Iraq and Syria, is under huge pressure. And that is just a fact. Now, there are thousands of fighters, some of whom left the area of the fighting years ago. And they are sitting in some community somewhere in the world.

And if you're saying that one person standing up one day and killing people is a reflection of ISIS moving in Iraq and Syria, I think you're dead wrong.

Now, are -- is it capable for people to be inspired by them and go out and do great harm to people? I said that. I acknowledge that. Yes, there is that danger.

But the core of ISIS is in Al-Raqqa, and it's in Manbij. It's in Syria. It's in Iraq. And we are doing everything in our power to put additional pressure them. And I believe their days are numbered.

TAPPER: You are doing everything you can do?

I mean, I think there are a lot of people in the United States, in the Pentagon, in the national security apparatus who have a number of suggestions as to what more could be done to put pressure and to eliminate the threat of ISIS.

KERRY: Correct. And we -- a lot of people have talked about American troops going in, et cetera.

Congress displayed absolutely zero willingness to vote to do that. And if people have a willingness to show that now that has changed, the administration will listen to any legitimate plan, any legitimate way to do more.

But I believe that the pressure is mounting on a steady basis, with more and more being done on a consistent basis. And we welcome additional thoughts from members of Congress, from anybody in the intel community, in the defense community who knows or suggests. President Obama is open to any legitimate ways of moving faster that meets the test of our security needs and of what the Congress is willing to support.

TAPPER: Mr. Secretary, I'm being told that you have to go, that you have a meeting with the prime minister.

We always appreciate your time. Thank you so much. And good luck out there, sir. KERRY: Thank you. Thank you, Jake. Appreciate it.

TAPPER: Coming up: Trump picks Pence for party unity, but are the two of them actually united? What major splits on the ticket might mean for Republicans -- coming up next.



TAPPER: Welcome back to STATE OF THE UNION. I'm Jake Tapper.

And we are here live at the Republican National Convention in Cleveland. Things are going to kick off here tomorrow, with Donald Trump hoping to make his biggest splash yet.

But our brand-new CNN/ORC poll out right now shows that voters seem dug in when it comes to their opinion of both Trump and his Democratic opponent, Hillary Clinton. Clinton in this poll leads Donald Trump with 42 percent. Donald Trump has 37 percent, virtually no change for either of them.

But in this poll, libertarian candidate Gary Johnson surges to 13 percent, and Green Party candidate Jill Stein is at 5 percent. Also in this poll, in the wake of the end of the FBI investigation into her private e-mail server, 65 percent of the American people say they do not see Hillary Clinton as honest.

As for Donald Trump, his pick of Mike Pence is getting a tepid response. Voters so far like him less than they do previous Republican vice presidential picks.

And joining us now is Reince Priebus, the chairman of the Republican National Committee.

Mr. Chairman, thank you so much for being here. Really appreciate it.



TAPPER: So, let's start with the big scoop that Dana Bash reported a couple days ago, that other newspapers and publications, media organizations have also reported, which is that, up until midnight Thursday night, Mr. Trump was asking his top aides if there was any way, theoretically, he could dig out of the Pence pick, and that he seemed to be sort of resentful of the fact that people were urging him to go with his head, instead of his gut.

Was Trump's heart not in the Pence pick, do you think?

PRIEBUS: No, not at all. It was in the Pence pick, and it had been in the Pence pick for quite a while.

I don't think -- with respect to Dana, I don't think that report was accurate. I think it was coming from places that...


TAPPER: It wasn't just Dana. It was "The New York Times," "The Washington Post." Everybody reported it.

PRIEBUS: Right, but sources not really with knowledge can spin multiple, multiple places. And that's not just where -- where Trump was at.

I spoke to him, I mean, multiple times that day. I know what he was thinking. He certainly didn't want to make an announcement on the heels of the disaster in Nice. And so he decided to announce on Saturday. And no time in between that was he skeptical of the Pence pick.


TAPPER: But we know that, in between the time that he offered the job to Pence and Pence arrived in New York on his plane, Donald Trump went on FOX and said that he had not made his final, final decision.

PRIEBUS: Because Donald Trump -- because he wanted to make -- he wanted to keep people guessing. He wanted to make it more suspenseful.

And the fact that everything was coming down and people were talking, I think that frustrated Donald Trump. But he was with Pence. He knew Pence was the right pick. And that's where his head and heart was at for -- for quite some time before that point.


TAPPER: Is that who you wanted him to pick?

PRIEBUS: I thought it was a great pick. I mean, I think it's a good juxtaposition of Donald Trump.

I think he's a different personality. They don't agree with each other on everything, which is -- actually, I think, shows maturity and a pivot to the general election. I think it's a perfect pick.

TAPPER: Speaking of not agreeing on everything, take a listen to Donald Trump talking about his Muslim ban, his proposed Muslim ban, back in December.


TRUMP: Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country's representatives can figure out what the hell is going on.


TAPPER: Now, the very next day, Indiana Governor Mike Pence tweeted: "Calls to ban Muslims from entering the U.S. are offensive and unconstitutional."

So, help me understand what's going to happen here. Is there going to be a total and complete ban on Muslims entering the United States until we can -- quote -- "figure out what the hell is going on," or is there not going to be one?


What Donald Trump -- but if you have seen the last few weeks, his position that he's put on the table in his position papers that are on his Web site and what he's been talking about is a temporary ban of immigration from countries that harbor and train terrorists, until we get a better vetting system that is consistent with House bills and Senate bills.

That's Donald Trump's position. There is no religious test on the table. It is simply limited to countries that are harboring and training terrorists. And that's really where 75 percent of the American people are at.

TAPPER: Sure, but...


PRIEBUS: It is a good position to be in.

TAPPER: But that proposal that you just enumerated is different than what he said in December.


TAPPER: And he has said that he has not backed off or changed his position.

PRIEBUS: No, no, no. He has pivoted to this position.

TAPPER: That's your interpretation. That's not his interpretation.

PRIEBUS: It's what I have seen him say in person at events.

TAPPER: I agree that it seems like a pivot or a change.


TAPPER: But he says he hasn't changed.

PRIEBUS: He -- he -- no, he has said he has changed. And he has put the position on the table.

And that is his position. It is not a religious test. It is a ban on -- from immigration from countries that harbor or train terrorists. That's what I believe in. And that's what 80 percent of the American people believe in.

TAPPER: Another issue where they have disagreed is the Iraq War. Mike Pence stood shoulder to shoulder with George W. Bush. He voted

for the war in Iraq when he was in the House. He stood by that vote. Donald Trump calls the Iraq War a -- quote -- "big, fat mistake."

For voters who care about foreign policy and want to know where the Trump-Pence ticket would take this country, is this a ticket that would have supported the Iraq War or not?

PRIEBUS: You would have to ask them.

I mean, look, I think that what it does show is that Donald Trump is willing to be challenged by other people. It shows that he's not looking for someone -- for yes-people around him. And he's also willing -- he also wants to show the American people that he is going to put a person on the ticket that doesn't agree with him on everything.

I think that shows a lot of maturity. I think it shows an understanding of the electorate and an understanding of what the job is to defeat Hillary Clinton. I think it's very good.

TAPPER: Except that -- I guess the question is, does it muddy what Donald Trump stands for? Because I think what a lot of voters who voted for him find appealing is the fact that he opposed the war in Iraq -- or he says he did, anyway, although there is very little evidence that he did before it actually happened.

But that said, let's just say he is anti-Iraq War, and Pence was pro. Trade is another big issue where Donald Trump is attracting a lot of voters. He said about the Trans-Pacific Partnership: "The Trans- Pacific Partnership is another disaster done and pushed by special interests who want to rape our country, just a continuing rape of our country" -- very strong words, some might say offensive, rape victims.

Take a look at what Mike Pence has said about TPP.

He tweeted: "Trade means jobs, but trade also means security. The time has come for all of us to urge the swift adoption of the Trans- Pacific Partnership."

Well, I mean, if I'm a Republican voter or a Democratic voter looking -- who is not married to Hillary Clinton -- and I look at this and I'm like, this guy thinks the TPP is rape. This guy thinks it's the best thing in the world.

PRIEBUS: You would be surprised.

This is a not a -- this is a split issue in our party. Not everyone is crazy about TPP. I can tell you, these delegates aren't crazy about TPP. I can tell you, a lot of the base in our party isn't crazy about TPP. Some of other folks in Washington...


TAPPER: Yes, but your vice president is.

PRIEBUS: Listen, not -- not -- not as wildly crazy as you may think.

TAPPER: "Trade means jobs, but trade also means security."

PRIEBUS: Understood.

TAPPER: "The time has come for all of us to urge the swift adoption of the TPP."

PRIEBUS: Listen, this is not...

TAPPER: Which Donald Trump thinks is rape.

PRIEBUS: No, listen -- well, that's true.

And what I'm saying to you is that some folks in our party like TPP. Some don't. The fact that we have two people together that have a different opinion on TPP is not -- is not some sort of stunning, startling news.

Now, overlaying all of this, Donald Trump's basic position on trade is that he wants to cut better deals. He wants to look at the deals that are in place.


TAPPER: That's everybody's position.

PRIEBUS: And he wants to do a better job. But that's his job.

TAPPER: Everybody wants better deals.

PRIEBUS: Right, and Donald Trump believes and a lot of people believe that, if you are going to have someone on the other end of the negotiating table, he would be the guy to have on the other end of the negotiating table.

His strength and his negotiating ability and his desire to do better is his most important position on trade. And that's what he's always said. And, again, I don't think it's a bad thing that we have got two people that have different opinion on TPP.

TAPPER: Donald Trump said that he picked Mike Pence because he wants to unify the party.

PRIEBUS: By the way, when you said your V.P., I thought you were talking about Paul Ryan, when I said, nah, not quite. So, I wasn't sure you were talking about Pence, or...

TAPPER: Oh, I'm sorry.


TAPPER: You need to get your mind into the 2016 nominee.

PRIEBUS: No, no, no. Well -- no, no, no, no, no, no.

TAPPER: I know your heart is in Wisconsin.

PRIEBUS: But my friend -- my friend Paul -- and that's what I thought you were referring to.

TAPPER: Well, they have the same position on TPP, Mike Pence and Paul Ryan. They're both...


PRIEBUS: Not -- not 100 percent the same.

TAPPER: I guess my question is this.

Donald Trump said that Mike Pence was picked, at least in part, to unify the party. And I wonder how much you can have somebody that is actually a partner in governance, a partner in campaigning if the pick is really more of a political pick, as opposed to, this is a guy I believe in, he and I share the same exact views on most important issues.

PRIEBUS: Well, I think it shows that he understands that bringing diversity of experience onto the ticket is an important for him thing to do.

And Mike Pence's experience in the House on foreign relations in Indiana, on budgets, and the difference in demeanor is something that will be very valuable.

TAPPER: That's for sure.

PRIEBUS: Well, you know what?

But people want strength. People love that about Donald Trump. But it's also good and reassuring to see a diversity in style.

TAPPER: I could go on, but I'm getting the wrap here.

Thank you so much, Reince Priebus.

PRIEBUS: You bet, Jake.

TAPPER: Good to see you.

PRIEBUS: You bet. You, too.

TAPPER: Have a great convention. Hope it's peaceful...

PRIEBUS: That's right.

TAPPER: ... and -- most importantly, and, of course, for you, successful.

PRIEBUS: It will be great. It's beautiful.

TAPPER: Coming up: Did you ever have someone break up with you who didn't even have the courtesy to pick up the phone and call? Yes? Well, then, now you know how Chris Christie might be feeling today.

Donald Trump's tortuous tryouts for V.P. end in heartbreak for some -- coming up next.




TRUMP: Indiana Governor Mike Pence is my first choice.


TAPPER: OK. Kind of an odd thing to say when you're asking someone to dance. Why might Trump feel compelled to say that Indiana Governor Mike Pence was his first choice, that he really likes Mike?

Perhaps, perhaps speculation it's the big CNN scoop that Mr. Trump was having doubts until the very last minute asking his top advisers as of midnight Thursday night if it was still possible to back out and choose someone else, possibly Chris Christie. I don't know. The drama, the intrigue, the heartbreak, here to talk about it all CNN political contributors Bakari Sellers, who supports Hillary Clinton, and Ana Navarro, a Republican, who does not know who she's going to vote for, Corey Lewandowski, Donald Trump's former campaign manager, and Nina Turner, former Ohio State senator who supporter Bernie Sanders.

And just to get a status update are you a Hillary Clinton supporter?

NINA TURNER (D), FORMER OHIO STATE SENATOR: I'm still -- I'm going to the convention.

TAPPER: You're going to the convention?


TAPPER: All right. Maybe we'll talk about that next week.

TURNER: Please.


TAPPER: OK. Complicated.

Corey, let me address this issue about Chris Christie here. From the perspective of Chris Christie and I'm getting -- this is all speculation. He was like first, major current office holder to come out of the box and support Donald Trump. He took a lot of heat for it in state among his supporters, and he's acknowledged he was disappointed that he wasn't picked.

Donald Trump talks a lot about loyalty, but when I look at Chris Christie and when I look at you who got him the nomination, you could look at Sarah Palin, too, not invited to speak here. Does that loyalty run two ways or is it a one-way street loyalty to Donald?

COREY LEWANDOWSKI, FORMER TRUMP CAMPAIGN MANAGER: Yes. Loyalty. Mr. Trump is a very loyal person. I think what you see with Chris Christie is someone who has been loyal for a long time and it's a long relationship. It precedes their tenure in politics. And what Donald Trump has said is that Chris Christie, if Donald Trump is elected, is going to have a major role in his administration somewhere.

Now, he didn't choose him as a vice president but that doesn't mean he's not loyal. You know, bringing Mike Pence onboard has helped shore up the conservative movement. It's helped shore up the fact that people continue to question if Donald Trump was going to go with his heart or with his gut. And what we saw here is that he did the right thing in picking Mike Pence to help unify the party --


TAPPER: So he went with his head? So he went with his head not his gut? His gut would have been more Chris Christie. (INAUDIBLE).

All right. Ana, the rollout a little messy because of -- look, I mean, let's cast it in the most positive way, he's being transparent. We like transparency in the media, right? He's being transparent with his feelings, his emotions, what he thinks about them. Will that hurt Pence and the post-convention bouts that people usually get?

ANA NAVARRO, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Frankly, I don't think so. I think it's a -- you know, it's a two-a day story. It was entertaining. It was usually -- usual Trump drama.

There was nothing dramatic about the pick. And I think Mike Pence is the safest, most stable pick for a very unsafe, unstable Donald Trump. But the way the rollout happened was dramatic. I mean, I haven't been, you know, that interested in a finale since the, who shot J.R. "Dallas" episode.


TAPPER: You're not that old. Come on.

NAVARRO: It was -- I am that old. It was, you know, the bachelorette. Who's going to get the rose?

TAPPER: There you go.

NAVARRO: Finally.


He had us hanging, you know, on his every word for 24 hours. We didn't know if the poor man was going to get to the altar.

TAPPER: Let's keep the cultural reference topical enough so that kids out there, the millennials understand what we're talking -- Bakari was like J.R.?

NAVARRO: Millennials. How do you spell that? I thought those are the people that don't like to watch T.V.

TAPPER: Bakari, Newt Gingrich, his response before the pick was made was, it might not be a good idea to have me on the ticket. You know, I don't know if you need a two-pirate ticket.

Do you agree with Corey that this is probably of those three, the smartest pick for Mr. Trump to have made?

BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, as a Democrat, Mike Pence puts absolutely no fear in my heart and I don't know any Democrat one who really knows Mike Pence or two, is afraid of him on the stump or anywhere else. He's not the brash personality that Chris Christie and Newt Gingrich is. He's not the skilled debater that they are. So he's not an intimidating, imposing figure.

In fact, I know that Corey said that he build a bridge to -- or built a bridge to more conservatives. Well, that's not where Donald Trump needs to go. Mike Pence is anti-LGBT. He's anti-women. I mean, all of these things where Donald Trump needs to go but Mike Pence doesn't get you there. And then if you look at their disagreements on -- I mean, they disagree on Libya. They disagree on Iraq. They disagree on trade. I mean, this is a weird, weird ticket, but, you know, it's typical Donald Trump.

NAVARRO: I want to tell you what matters, Bakari, is who is on top?


TAPPER: Let's leave that there too. One thing Donald Trump said in his announcement on Saturday had to do with one of the reasons why he picked Pence. It's relevant to what Corey said about party unity. Let's take a listen.


TRUMP: Now I think if you look at one of the big reasons that I chose Mike and one of the reasons is party unity. I have to be honest.


TAPPER: Party unity, Nina? Hillary Clinton will make her pick next week or maybe even sooner and you're a big supporter of Bernie Sanders -- still are a big supporter of Bernie Sanders. Should Hillary Clinton think along those same lines, party unity is important, if not Sanders then someone in the progressive mold?

TURNER: Like Senator Sherrod Brown, for example?

TAPPER: Well, you're an Ohioan.

TURNER: Yes, I'm Ohioan. I have to give my senator a shout out.

But, you know, definitely -- but -- I mean, party unity can't be the only factor but it certainly should be a major factor in that selection. But when you're the presidential candidate you need to pick someone that compliments you, that brings something to the table. No Republican as you know has ever won the presidency without the great state of Ohio. Democrats haven't done it since the 1960s so Ohio is certainly a place to go.

Senator Sanders has not been vetted for it and I'm not sure he'd want it if he did it, so that's off the table. But in terms of really shoring up the left she definitely needs to pick someone that speaks to them.

TAPPER: Corey, one quick question I want to ask you. There is an interesting report by our friend Viveca Novak at Center for Responsive Politics saying that there is this rule for the Securities and Exchange Commission saying that people in charge of the state pension fund so governors cannot receive more than $250.00 -- $350.00 from people on Wall Street and that hurt the fund-raising of Chris Christie. It hurt the fund raising of Governor Walker of Wisconsin. And it could theoretically hurt the fund-raising of the Pence ticket because Pence is in charge of the pensions for Indianans. Is that a concern at all?

LEWANDOWSKI: Look, I don't think so. I think what you see with Donald Trump and unlike the Hillary Clinton campaign who -- she's received $40 million from Wall Street so far in this campaign. He's received --

TAPPER: Did (ph) he (ph) tell you that?



LEWANDOWSKI: He's so -- you know, I heard it from Bernie Sanders, so it's got to be true, right? Bernie keeps telling that 40 million and I'm sure it's much, much more now. The difference is if you look at the fund-raising numbers that's coming up from the Trump campaign it's small dollars. It's coming in through the internet. You know that doesn't impact who is on the ticket and it's the grassroots that's really -- will support the Trump campaign.

TAPPER: All right. Stay right there everyone. Coming up, one V.P. pick down, one to go. Who will Hillary Clinton choose? The panel will weigh in next.




BILL O'REILLY, FOX NEWS HOST: Would you go to Congress and ask for a declaration of war?

TRUMP (on the phone): I would. I would. This is war.

CLINTON (on the phone): It's clear we are at war with the terrorist group and what they represent. It's a different kind of war, and we need to be smart about how we wage it and win it. (END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton weighing in immediately after the deadly truck attack, terrorist attack in Nice, France, this week. Let's talk about all of this with our panel.

Bakari, conventional wisdom is that terrorist attack, national security crisis helps Republican, economic crisis helps Democrat. Do you think that these types of attacks are helping to keep Donald Trump competitive?

SELLERS: I don't think so. I think as this continues to shake out what you will see is the lack of capacity and the lack of depth Donald Trump has when it comes to foreign policy. We all remember the Chuck Todd interview when he said that, you know, I get my foreign policy from the shows, and then --

TAPPER: There's nothing wrong with that. This is one of them. A brilliant show. People get a lot of information from it.

SELLERS: Well, I hope he's watching today and he said -- when asked about Turkey this week, he said I have a lot of friends there. God bless them. I hope it turns out OK.

I mean, this is the type of depth or nuance that you need when you're dealing with these issues especially like ISIS and ISIL. So, I think, as this shakes up the country is going to see that there is a vast, experience difference between Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton.

TAPPER: Corey, let me ask you. Hillary Clinton is up with the new ad that says, an unsteady world demands a very steady leader.

What will it take for Mr. Trump -- he is leading in the polls when it comes to, how would you handle ISIS -- including in the new CNN/ORC poll. But what would it take to convince the skeptics on the there that he actually is best prepared for the job?


LEWANDOWSKI: Look, I think what you have is you have Donald Trump meeting with his foreign policy advisers led by Senator Jeff Sessions who's an expert on this topic. You've got Mike Pence who has spent time when he was in the House on the committee which has jurisdiction over -- understanding what was taking place as it relates to foreign policy. You've got a leader now with Mike Pence who's (ph) (INAUDIBLE).

TAPPER: They disagree on like everything.


LEWANDOWSKI: That's not true that they disagree on everything.

TAPPER: Iraq, Libya -- I mean, there is a lot of disagreement between Mr. Pence and Mr. Trump. LEWANDOWSKI: But if you look historically at candidates and their running mates there's always been disagreement and they come together because it's for the better of the country, it's for the good of the country.


TAPPER: Specifically for the briefing though that I'm talking about, like he thinks things, Mr. Pence, whether or not whether anybody here agrees with him, that Mr. Trump disagrees with him.

LEWANDOWSKI: Well, I think we have an open dialogue and as we put the best people in the room and you have the person who will be the president of the United States making those decisions based on the totality of the information that you have and you've got people like Jeff Sessions and Mike Pence now in those briefings making sure that he understands everything he needs to before he makes a decision.

Look, the fact is we are at war with ISIS and we need to do something immediately overseas to make sure they don't come here.

TAPPER: Let's turn now to Hillary Clinton's pick for V.P. because I want to hear what everyone thinks. Donald Trump has made his pick.

Here's a list of possible vice presidents that Hillary Clinton might pick. We have Tim Kaine, senator from Virginia, Elizabeth Warren, senator from Massachusetts, Cory Booker, senator from New Jersey, Sherrod Brown, senator from Ohio, Xavier Becerra, congressman from California, Tom Perez, secretary -- I'm sorry -- yes, secretary of the Department of Labor, Julian Castro, secretary of the Department Housing and Urban Development, Tom Vilsack, former governor of Iowa now secretary of Agriculture, John Hickenlooper, senator from Colorado, Amy Klobuchar, senator from Minnesota, and Al Franken, another senator from Minnesota, and Retired Admiral James Stavridis. So that is a big, big plate. I'd just like to know who you think would be good for her, Nina?

TURNER: I mean, of course, I said my senator, Sherrod Brown.

TAPPER: Sherrod Brown. Let's do a second (INAUDIBLE)

TURNER: But in terms of Cory -- you know, Senator Cory Booker, you know, he brings some excitement and energy to the ticket which the secretary needs. He will probably be able to draw on the millennials which she needs, but also in terms of his criminal justice reform, you know, he is really strong and big in that area and so that will be important, as well.

But even more than the vice president pick, when you asked the question about unity. Unity is also going to require a deep commitment to that platform. I know a lot was going on in the world and so the media didn't really cover what was going on in Orlando, but in order to bring lots of people from the left in especially those on the way left it is going to take a real commitment to execution of that platform.

TAPPER: Bakari?

SELLERS: Well, I think that what we saw in Donald Trump and Mike Pence is they got the, you know, the senior citizen white male demographic taken care of in their ticket. So I think that Hillary Clinton is going to go in a different direction. I think that Tim Kaine is a possibility but I really hope that she picks Thomas Perez. I think that would speak loudly to the country.

TAPPER: I have to explain again who he is to our viewers. He is the secretary of labor. I mean, not a lot of people know him.

SELLERS: Correct. But I mean, it's an opportunity to get to know him. He's charming. He is brilliant. He's wonkish. He matches her intellect on many issues. He's Hispanic. That's going to speak to a new electorate. I mean, nobody know who Mike Pence is either outside of Indiana. A very few do.

I mean, so I think as the circuit comes along and he gets on the circuit people will be impressed by him. And one thing, just picking back what Nina said when you talk about Cory Booker and Elizabeth Warren, I think the last thing that Democrats want is Charlie Backer or Chris Christie picking a United State senator --


TAPPER: Republican governor to get to a point.

We have about a minute left and I want 30 seconds each on who you actually think would be good for her, Hillary Clinton, each though understood you don't want her to win?

LEWANDOWSKI: Well, look if she picks Elizabeth Warren it actually helps her in a lot of ways. I think it's a -- it a very aggressive pick for her. It brings the whole left side of the base to her that Bernie Sanders supported. I think (INAUDIBLE) from the electoral perspective, the American people don't want that. She's just too far left. But I do think if she actually wants to govern, then she'd pick Tim Kaine, a person who would never overshadows her. He has a solid record in the state of Virginia. He potentially takes Virginia off of the map for an electoral perspective because he will do very well there and he's someone that I think she could work with.

TAPPER: All right. Very quickly, Ana.

NAVARRO: Look I think, Trump picking Pence liberates her to pick whomever she wants. He is vanilla, sugarless vanilla, fat-free vanilla ice cream. So she can go with whatever she wants. She doesn't now have to think about who can debate a Chris Christie? Who can debate a Newt Gingrich?

Mike Pence is not the most energetic pick. He is a safe pick. He is (INAUDIBLE). He doesn't energize anybody. He doesn't antagonize anybody. I think she goes for her gut or who she feels chemistry with. And I think that's either Tim Kaine or Tom Vilsack.

TAPPER: Interesting. All right. Thanks one and all. Really great panel. Appreciate it.

After the break Ruth Bader Ginsburg channels her inner biggie smalls. How the notorious justice started the biggest rivalry since Tupac next.


TAPPER: Welcome back. The man set to take the stage behind me was just a few days ago called a faker by Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg. Ginsburg subsequently said she regretted the comments about Donald Trump. But the brouhaha is the reminder of the sheer chutzpah that earned the justice her quite unusual nick name. This is all the subject of this week's "State of the Cartoonion."


TAPPER (voice-over): Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg, there are fans she's known as Notorious RBG. A nod of course to the late rapper the Notorious BIG.


The nickname is not because she's a fan of east coast 1990s hip-hop.

RUTH BADER GINSGURG, U.S. SUPREME COURT JUSTICE: I think a law clerk told me and also explained what Notorious RBG was a parody.

TAPPER: Ginsburg descent in the Hobby Lobby birth control versus religious liberty case even inspired a YouTube hit, albeit more folks than rap.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (singing): The cost of an IUD is nearly equivalent to a month's full-time pay.

TAPPER: To her detractors recently however the only BIG track is relevant to RBG is "Nasty Girl." Many including some of her fellow liberals are mad at her. While Notorious BIG rapped about traveling throughout the world Notorious RBG suggested she wants to move to the other side of the world if Donald Trump is elected.

Notorious BIG rapped about mo money, mo problems. But RBG wondered why it wasn't more of a problem for Donald Trump that he has not released his tax returns. Since the outcry against her remarks of course RBG has apologized. Donald Trump called on her to resign. One wonders if east coast and west coast rappers can make peace, can these two?


TAPPER: Thanks for watching. I'm Jake Tapper in Cleveland at the RNC.