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Chuck D Talks Trump; Melania Trump's Speech Being Compared to Michelle Obama's; RNC Chaos: Is There Unity? Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired July 19, 2016 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:30:00 ] CHUCK D, CO-FOUNDER, PUBLIC ENEMY, PROPHETS OF RAGE: It's bad apples of most police. We're saying there has to be some kind of intelligent conversation in the joining between figuring out the intervention between authority and the community. It ...

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Don't you wish those bad apples would just shut up?

CHUCK D: We wish a lot of bad apples would shut up. But you don't want the -- to see the coverage on any situation that happens to call for change always is covering the worst and not the best. And so the best outnumber the few bad apples by far. So why is the coverage lopsided.

COSTELLO: But if -- see here's the thing that's happening this week at the Republican National Convention.

CHUCK D: One of the things?

COSTELLO: Black Lives Matters is being painted as this anarchy group, right? There were several speakers last night who called out Black Lives Matters. I want to play ...

CHUCK D: You could see it coming.

COSTELLO: ... I want to play ...

CHUCK D: You could see it coming, Carol. Why -- they grab for the lowest hanging fruit and want to make that their platform just to rile up. They do as much riling -- they've been riling up most of the people in this country for the longest period of time on something that is lax of the data, and the actual research for what the reality actually is. So they build perception ...

COSTELLO: I don't think that's it. This is a charge Republicans make, that Barack Obama has widened the racial divide. That he's done nothing to heal tension in America between African Americans and white people.

CHUCK D: He sits in the seat of the President of the United States in a government that outnumbers him. So he does what he can do. But the government all got to work together and they've got to figure out how they close the divide on real people doing real things. We can't have the perception override the reality, and often it is.

COSTELLO: So what would you like to hear ...

CHUCK D: Well what -- I'm in town, I'm in town for Prophets of Rage. Because I don't -- our motto, our mantra is -- as they say "Make America Safe Again," make America rage again. Because they actually should begin thinking. And that -- what actually will make somebody like, "wow, all this has been happening. I should really be angry about the idiocracy that's taking place."

I mean come on, how could somebody just look at Donald Trump and not come up with the words s-t-u-p-i-d? It's out of the bizarro world. So ...

COSTELLO: But could he say anything that might interest you or might heal racial tension in America right now?

CHUCK D: His wife -- in hip hop, as I was telling you off camera, the biggest travesty is to bite somebody's lyrics and rhymes. His wife ...

COSTELLO: And you're talking about Melania Trump's speech ...

CHUCK D: His wife just bit, just bit Michelle -- First Lady's speech. And I think they planned it, so. With that going on you're like, "wow, anything goes."

COSTELLO: Why do you think they planned it?

CHUCK D: Because they reach for the lowest hanging fruit to get people riled up and promotion (ph). They probably knew that everybody would be like, "ho, it's plagiarism. It's biting." And that's what you had. Prophets of Rage, you know, we're going on tour across the United States to be able and this for all to be able -- along with the campaign, is to put some sense in people's heads. So ...

COSTELLO: All right.

CHUCK D: And big ups to my crew. Tom Morello, Tim Commerford, Brad Wilk, DJ Lord, and B-Real. And we're in town. We've marched three miles yesterday in 95 degree heat with grassroots organizations that say, "yes, black lives matter, but all kinds of people are involved to say yes, we are people, too. If no -- if we don't matter, then no lives matter."

COSTELLO: Right.

CHUCK D: And that's a lot. And when they say blue lives matter, yes they have always mattered. Like duh. Yes. That's the authority, everybody matters.

COSTELLO: All right. Thanks so much.

CHUCK D: Thank you, Carol.

COSTELLO: I will mention Prophets of Rage once again to get that out there. CHUCK D: Yeah, yeah. We've got a song that's out called Prophets of

Rage. And it actually speaks to what's now. But there -- our whole narrative the user (ph) as a third term again is to be able to make America think again. You know? United States of America.

COSTELLO: Chuck D.

CHUCK D: Good luck with these lights.

COSTELLO: I know, they're very bright.

CHUCK D: Like a runway out here.

COSTELLO: It's like looking into the sun.

CHUCK D: Yeah.

COSTELLO: Chuck D, thanks so much.

CHUCK D: Thank you, Carol.

COSTELLO: Thank you so much. Still to come in the Newsroom, more reaction to Melania Trump's speech. Up next, the Trump campaign's Senior Advisor, a Hillary Clinton spokesperson, and a historian. They all join me for their take on the controversy, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:38:55]

COSTELLO: It was supposed to be the shining moment of the night. Melania Trump's prime time speech. Instead her words are now being compared to Michelle Obama's words in 2008.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHELLE OBAMA, FIRST LADY OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Barack and I were raised with so many of the same values.

MELANIA TRUMP, WIFE OF DONALD TRUMP: From a young age, my parents impressed on me the values.

OBAMA: You work hard for what you want in life.

TRUMP: That you work hard for what you want in life.

OBAMA: That your word is your bond, that you do what you say you're going to do.

TRUMP: That your word is your bond, and you do what you say and keep your promise.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Trump's campaign chairman says the claim of plagiarism is bogus, it's just a distraction. Here's exactly what Paul Manafort said minutes ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAUL MANAFORT, CAMPAIGN CHAIR FOR DONALD TRUMP: The fact that the speech itself is being focused on for -- as somebody, I think at CBS, told me today -- 50 words, and that includes ands and thes and things like that. Is totally ignoring the facts of the speech, itself. The speech was a poignant speech, it was well received by the American people. There is no -- we don't believe there's anything in that speech that doesn't reflect her thinking. And we don't think that -- and she says it's -- we're comfortable that the words that she used are words that were personal to her.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: With me now is Kellyanne Conway, Trump campaign Senior Advisor and a pollster. Katherine Jellison is also with me. She's the Professor and Chair of History at Ohio University. She's an expert on First Ladies. And Karen Finney is also here. She's a Senior Advisor for communications and political outreach for Hillary for America. Welcome to all of you. Kellyanne I will start with you. Was this a case of plagiarism?

KELLYANNE CONWAY, TRUMP CAMPAIGN SENIOR ADVISOR: No I think it was an honest mistake and journalists have made it. Some have made entire books of it. I think it's unfortunate too, because she works really hard ...

COSTELLO: So you don't think parts of the speech were lifted from Michelle Obama's inaugural speech?

CONWAY: Well it sounds like they're very similar. So I wasn't part of this process but it sounded, but it looks to me like they're very similar. Plagiarism though, is an intent. It's that you're trying -- it's piracy, you're trying to get ...

KATHERINE JELLISON, CHAIR OF HISTORY, OHIO UNIVERSITY: Not all plagiarism is done intentionally (ph) ...

CONWAY: You're trying to get ... that's right if you're trying to get away with it ...

JELLISON: Even if it's by accident, it's plagiarism.

CONWAY: If you're trying to get away with something as your own. But I have to agree with Chairman Manafort, Paul Manafort. In that, what will voters really remember in November? Will they remember their introduction to Melania Trump in front of 35 million people at -- her husband's a non-politician, she surely is a non-politician -- giving her first primetime speech like that of any sort.

Will they remember the content of what she said? That she said it "it's the greatest privilege on the planet Earth to be an American citizen and I've been one for almost 10 years." Will they remember her trying to transport us into her time as potential First Lady where she said, "I want to help people who are left behind. Give children all opportunities, particularly in education."

Or will they remember the way this was covered? And I would be really careful, if I were the Clinton campaign. They're trying to put down a woman who ...

COSTELLO: All right ...

CONWAY: ... is outside of where they want her to be.

[10:41:45]

COSTELLO: Speaking of the Clinton campaign, when you were watching, when you were watching Melania Trump's speech last night, did it sound familiar to you?

KAREN FINNEY, SENIOR ADVISOR, COMMUNICATIONS AND POLITICAL OUTREACH, HILLARY FOR AMERICA: I thought it was a lovely speech. And I actually agree with part of what Kellyanne said. Because -- I mean blaming it on the Clinton campaign, you can't blame everything on us. Some of the mistakes that are made are made by the Trump campaign. But what I will say is, I was more concerned -- and I think more of what people will actually remember -- was the anger from last night. Was the attacks from last night. The disorganization.

That that was the first night and that was the way to introduce this country to the Trump campaign, in a sense of "here's how we'd run the country." I think it was a disaster. I think that's more should be a conversation that we're having today.

CONWAY: Do you have any specifics? I'm just curious. Because I am -- I mean, anybody who represents Hillary Clinton accusing anybody of looking angry is rich. Apart from that, I thought the parents of these victims of crimes, and of Benghazi were very powerful. And I don't want to take anything away from them. I don't stand in their shoes, Carol. I don't belong on the same platform as them, as I remarked on your TV set last night where they were coming before and after me.

And so I really don't want to detract from their pain, which seemed very real, and very raw. And look, you've seen the CNN polls and our polls ... COSTELLO: Well ...

CONWAY: ... America does not feel safe. That's just a fact.

COSTELLO: Well before we get into all of this, I want to go back to Melania Trump for just a second.

CONWAY: Sure.

COSTELLO: And I want to ask Katherine a question. Because she's an expert on First Ladies, she studies them. Have you ever heard of anything like this before, Katherine?

JELLISON: Well I've never heard charges of plagiarism against the spouse of a candidate, in terms of critique of her convention speech. Yes, so I would say that this particular incident is unprecedented.

COSTELLO: Are we making a mountain out of a molehill in your opinion?

JELLISON: I guess we'll have to see how the rest of the week plays out. There's still several nights left of the convention. And there's plenty of room for further controversy. So this one may fade in the background.

COSTELLO: So, because here's the thing, Kellyanne, about this controversy. Somebody should've been protecting Melania Trump. Because she's not a professional politician. She's not a political wife. So someone within the campaign should've been reading that speech and they should've caught that. But they didn't.

CONWAY: They didn't.

COSTELLO: And that says something about Trump's campaign, doesn't it?

CONWAY: No, I've heard a lot of that this morning. That this is a fundamental flaw of the campaign. I think to be fair, it may be unprecedented for a First Ladies or spouses of candidates. Joe Biden plagiarized Neil Kinnock. I remember it, I'm old enough to remember that same thing (ph) ...

COSTELLO: At a time when presidential ambitions (ph) ...

CONWAY: But -- at a time when Neil Kinnock didn't plagiarize Neil Kinnock anymore. You've had journalists, including on different cable networks who have been caught doing that and have apologized and made amends. So I do hope that people will take from this the substance of the speech.

I thought -- and we're missing this, really, in the conversation -- I thought one really remarkable thing about Melania Trump's speech last night is that she didn't make it as much about her husband as I think people expected it to be.

She made it -- it was actually an optimistic, inspirational turning point. And if you take clips of that and you test it after this brouhaha, I'll bet it'll do really well (ph) ...

COSTELLO: It was but ...

FINNEY: But it was interesting because it was followed by Joni Ernst and others, and we went right back to the attack fest. And it was all about attacking Hillary Clinton, it was about anger, it was about divisiveness. There were no new ideas ... there was no mention ...

CONWAY: Donald Trump did not (ph) mention Philadelphia ...

FINNEY: There was ...

CONWAY: ... There were plenty of things (ph)

FINNEY: ... Well Donald Trump's name was barely mentioned last night actually ... CONWAY: ... it was mentioned plenty ...

FINNEY: ... by a number of newspapers ...

CONWAY: Miss Finney can I talk? This is, look ...

FINNEY: We thought that was -- Hillary Clinton's name was mentioned more than Donald Trump ...

CONWAY: Donald Trump -- this is ... FINNEY: That was not (ph) your Party's vision ...

CONWAY: ... No ...

FINNEY: ... for the country.

CONWAY: No but that's how the voters see this, as a referendum on Hillary Clinton. And whether we should give four more years to someone who is not as popular ...

FINNEY: I would like to say ...

CONWAY: ... and not as likeable and stuff as not (ph) as Barack Obama.

COSTELLO: Actually something from the streets of Cleveland. The "Hillary Clinton should be in jail" theme is very popular among Republicans. They believe that she should've faced some sort of punishment for her e-mail crimes (ph) ...

[10:45:40]

FINNEY: Well but I think actually what people care about more than anything when they go to the polls is -- and poll after poll shows this -- that people believe Hillary Clinton is the most qualified. They don't think Donald Trump is qualified ...

CONWAY: In the least (INAUDIBLE) ...

FINNEY: ... They want to know who's going to make a change for their families. They want to know who's going to create jobs, who's going to increase incomes. Who's going to help make sure they're ...

CONWAY: That's what's so nice about Trump's (ph) ... make America work again.

FINNEY: ... in theory. And I hope that they'll -- although I probably -- I suspect we won't actually hear the whole story about Donald Trump's business career. And all the people that he's bankrupt and how basically ...

CONWAY: Oh maybe we should try that.

FINNEY: ... it's been about making money for himself, not actually delivering change for people like healthcare for 8 million kids. CONWAY: Karen's (ph) a really smart, seasoned (ph) professional. I

don't think the change argument is going to help Hillary Clinton this year. 2016 is what 2008, 1992, and 2000 were. It's basically do you want more of these multi-term presidencies. This is a question people -- at its very base level, Carol and Karen, I believe this election is still about change.

And just the way Barack Obama was able to say, Senator Obama was able to say in 2008, too, do we want (ph) a third term with George W. Bush. And people were like, "no!" I think arguing for change if you're Hillary Clinton ...

FINNEY: Do we really want someone (ph) that doesn't even have the temperament (ph) ...

CONWAY: who represents ...

FINNEY: ... to be able to be President?

CONWAY: ... yeah but temperament is something ...

FINNEY: (INAUDIBLE) ...

CONWAY: ... yeah but temperament is ...

COSTELLO: OK I'm going to stop this right now.

FINNEY: ... it matters ...

COSTELLO: ... Thanks ...

FINNEY: It matters.

COSTELLO: thanks, thanks to all of you.

CONWAY: OK.

COSTELLO: Kellyanne Conway, Katherine Jellison, and Karen Finney. Still to come in the Newsroom, anti-Trump erupts on the convention floor. My next guest took the stage right in the midst of the uproar. He joins me next.

They give him ...

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:51:05]

COSTELLO: Anti-Trump forces tried to challenge the convention rules to force a nomination fight. Ultimately they failed but not before a bit of chaos.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPRESENTATIVE STEVE WOMACK (R), ARKANSAS: All those in favor, say aye. All those opposed, no. In the opinion of the Chair, the ayes have it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: All right and then just moments after all that turmoil, this happened.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SENATOR JOHN BARRASSO, CHAIRMAN, REPUBLICAN CONVENTION PLATFORM COMMITTEE: Who's proud to be an American?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: That was Senator John Barrasso. He's Chairman of the Convention platform committee and he joins me now. So tell me what was that like in the middle of that?

BARRASSO: Well it was -- it's exciting. You know, conventions have become too stayed over the years. People look for excitement at conventions and this is a convention full of excitement. It was fun to take the stage right after that ...

COSTELLO: But that wasn't the kind of excitement you really wanted, right?

BARRASSO: Well I would have been happy to have a roll-call vote. It was going to fail either way. But there has to be some spontaneity to a convention and there was here. But after that, the platform was, it seemed like unanimously, accepted as the conservatives solid (INAUDIBLE) ...

COSTELLO: Well but wasn't it supposed to be all about unity, Republican unity? Everybody on the same page, we're going to be here to support Donald Trump and ...

BARRASSO: We, we're united with our platform. About jobs, the economy, national security, things that the American people are really concerned about in this election year. Which is so critical and consequential.

COSTELLO: I was just curious, did Mike Pence try to interfere with this and stop it? Did -- isn't that part of what he does as a running mate?

BARRASSO: No. I haven't seen him yet. I know that Donald Trump was there last night with his wife. It ignited the crowd in a great excitement. This is a very successful convention. It's about adding new voters, you win election by addition, multiplication. That's what we're focused on, and that's why the conservative platform -- which was drawn up by 112 delegates from all around the country, as opposed to the Democrat platform written behind closed doors by 15 people and really dragged way to the left by Bernie Sanders.

COSTELLO: Well I know you've worked very hard on the platform, right? And then Melania Trump speaks and everybody's talking about that. They're not talking about Republican's ideas, they're talking about you know, Melania Trump picking phrases from Michelle Obama's speech. Of all people, Michelle Obama.

BARRASSO: Well I think whatever happened with the writing, it was unfortunate. She gave a great speech, she has a great story to tell. And I don't want all the unity of this convention to be overshadowed by attention to that. We are focused on the future. We are focused on winning the election in November, the presidency, the House, the Senate.

Because look, at least -- I think, at least three if not four Supreme Court Justices will be determined by the next president. This is a very consequential year. I think it's an election about the difference, either change or more of the same. Donald Trump is the change candidate.

COSTELLO: Well let's talk about elements of the platform. Because I know many gay Republicans were very upset with the language. Because they say it removed rights that they ought to have. Young Republicans are all for full rights for gay Americans. So how is a more conservative platform, when it comes to gay rights, going to attract more young Republicans to the Party?

BARRASSO: This -- no one should be surprised, Carol, that this platform reflects the grassroots feelings of the people across the country. This was a democratic process, people came, they voted. So this is a -- this reflects what the Republican voters are thinking. But this is, talks about our vision, our values for the future and ...

COSTELLO: Gay Republicans would say though, "you know, we've been left out of this." When pretty much everything's been decided by the U.S. Supreme Court.

BARRASSO: Well the, you know, the platform says let states make those decisions on so many things. On education, no National School Board. On healthcare, let states make the decision rather than Washington. There are huge things that people are focused and united about in terms of really getting Americans back to work, and the economy.

You know ...

COSTELLO: Well ...

BARRASSO: ... security, last night, Make America Safe Again. Security is not just border security. It's energy security, it's economic security. That's what unites us as a party.

COSTELLO: OK. Democrats would say last night was all about fear. It was all about saying how America is not so great. But that Republicans speaking last night didn't offer solutions to any of the problems they talked about. Why didn't they?

BARRASSO: Well we know that Hillary Clinton is the wrong answer. She's been wrong on the reset with Russia. She's been wrong with regard to Iran. She's been wrong with regard to Syria. And the world is a lot ...

COSTELLO: But I think Republicans kind of get that. And I think that some -- in fact I talked to some Republicans yesterday, in a Cleveland neighborhood bordering the convention site -- and they said, "you know what? I want solutions now and I'm kind of frustrated that I'm not hearing solutions."

BARRASSO: Well we have -- the full document is a solutions document talking about a more successful America, a safer, more secure America with a strong, healthy economy. I mean, that's what's so important. And that's why this election, I think, is really going to be whether we want to change direction -- and two-thirds of Americans think we're heading in the wrong direction -- or more of the same. And four years of Hillary Clinton is going to be an extension of the eight years of Barack Obama. And this country cannot afford eight more years of Barack Obama.

COSTELLO: Senator Barrasso thank you so much.

BARRASSO: Carol it's always great seeing you.

COSTELLO: For taking time out of your busy morning, thank you so much.

BARRASSO: Thank you. Happy to be with you. Thanks.

COSTELLO: And thank you for joining me today. I'm Carol Costello. AT THIS HOUR with Berman and Bolduan after a break.

[10:56:40]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)