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Melania Trump's Speech; RNC Tonight; Fox News Boss Given Deadline. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired July 19, 2016 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:16] BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Hi there. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Happy Tuesday. It is day number two here at the Republican National Convention. We are live in Cleveland, Ohio. You're watching CNN's special live coverage, taking a peek there inside the Quicken Loans Arena.

For 13 months, Donald Trump has been waiting for this very moment. And in just a couple of hours, let' not lose sight of this, the delegates will officially nominate him to be president of the United States.

But this campaign highlight is now overshadowed by a convention low point, the accusations that parts of the speech his wife gave before millions and millions of people were virtually identical to what Michelle Obama said in her speech in Denver some eight years ago. And politicos are asking, what's worse, the apparent copying or the perceived cover-up as Trump's campaign chairman repeatedly insists there was no plagiarism in Melania Trump's speech, and that the campaign will not fire, will not discipline any staffer.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAUL MANAFORT, TRUMP CAMPAIGN CHAIRMAN: There's no cribbing of Michelle Obama's speech. These were common words and values that she cares about her family, that - things like that. I mean she was speaking in front of 35 million people last night. She knew that. To think that she would be cribbing Michelle Obama's words is crazy.

MICHELLE OBAMA, FIRST LADY (AUGUST 25, 2008): Barack and I were raised with so many of the same values, like, you work hard for what you want in life, that your word is your bond, that you do what you say you're going to do.

MELANIA TRUMP, DONALD TRUMP'S WIFE: My parents impressed on me the values that you work hard for what you want in life, that your word is your bond and you do what you say and keep your promise.

MANAFORT: The speech was a poignant speech. It was well received by the American people. There is no - we don't believe there's anything in that speech that doesn't reflect her thinking and we don't think that - and she says it's - you know, we're comfortable that the words that she used are words that were personal to her.

OBAMA: And Barack and I set out to build lives guided by these values and to pass them on to the next generation because we want our children and all children in this nation to know that the only limit to the height of your achievements is the reach of your dreams and your willingness to work hard for them.

TRUMP: Because we want our children in this nation to know that the only limit to your achievements is the strength of your dreams and your willingness to work for them.

MANAFORT: There's a political tint to this whole issue and, you know, and certainly we've noted that the Clinton camp was the first to get it out there and trying to say that there was something untoward about the speech that Melania Trump gave. It's just another example, as far as we're concerned, that when Hillary Clinton is threatened by a female, the first thing she does is try and destroy the person.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: All right, let's go first to Sara Murray, who's been covering the Trump campaign for us for months and months and months. She's there inside the convention hall.

And, what, Sara, according to multiple sources, Trump is - he's furious.

SARA MURRAY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Brooke, we are hearing that Trump is not particularly happy with how this played out and is sort of wondering how this happened, how lines that were in Michelle Obama's speech came to be in Melania's speech, and why it wasn't caught.

But the other thing that we're hearing is that campaign staffers will not be disciplined, that they will not be fired as a result of this. And I'll tell you, Brooke, I spent a lot of time with a number of Trump campaign aides earlier today, and there was not shear panic. This was not - they did not look like a campaign that was coming apart at the seams. In fact, there was a sense from some folks in this campaign that if this turns into a media controversy, that's a - that's a way for the campaign to spin it, is sort of the media against Melania Trump and they're happy to make it look like that's the kind of fight that's playing out, Brooke.

BALDWIN: You know, I know that Melania Trump, in an interview with NBC and Matt Lauer, you know, she said to him that she wrote the speech. Do we know whose eyes, who else's eyes were on that speech before last night?

MURRAY: The campaign has said that it was a collaborative effort with other people. They have not told us exactly who those people are. And I think one thing that's key to remember in this is, Melania Trump is not a candidate. She is not the one who is running. So we do know that she spent weeks working on this, that she did take, you know, delivering this speech very seriously and she, of course, had a hand in it.

And so the question is, what other professionals helped her out with this and should someone have caught these similarities, or did someone else insert these similarities on their own who should have known better -

[14:05:03] BALDWIN: Right.

MURRAY: Than to have lines that were so close to one another and exactly the same in these cases. That's one of the things we're trying to figure out.

But I think the other thing, Brooke, is, this is a campaign who believes this news will be overshadowed by this afternoon, by Donald Trump being officially nominated, by the roster of speakers they have on tap tonight. So I think in some ways they're just kind of waiting for this to pass so they can move beyond it.

BALDWIN: OK, Sara Murray, thank you for now.

While Trump's campaign says, as Sara mentioned, plans to take no sort of disciplinary action over Melania Trump's speech, his former campaign manager, who was recently fired, has a different take. Here was Corey Lewandowski earlier today on CNN.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COREY LEWANDOWSKI, FORMER TRUMP CAMPAIGN MANAGER: I think Paul needs to take a deep look inside and understand what the process was, make sure the protocols were in place, make sure that there is a check and balance of every speech that's going to go forward. And whoever signed off, was the final signoff, that allowed this to go forward, should be held accountable.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: And if it was Paul Manafort, he should be held accountable?

LEWANDOWSKI: Well, I think if it was Paul Manafort, he'd to the right thing and resign.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: You think Paul Manafort would resign if the - if the - if this comes - he being the last (INAUDIBLE)?

LEWANDOWSKI: If he was the last people who saw this and saw this happen and has brought this on the candidate's wife, I think he would resign, because I think that's the type of person he would be.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: All right, let's have a chat about this, shall we? I have a mega panel. Anna Marie Cox, senior political correspondent for MTV News, CNN political commentator Stan Pfeiffer, who used to serve as a senior advisor for President Obama, Trump supporter Scottie Nell Hughes is with us, and legendary journalist Carl Bernstein, and author of "Woman in Charge: The Life of Hillary Rodham Clinton."

Welcome to all of you.

Listen, I know we're - we're listening to all the sound bites. We're watching everyone sort of parse this together. But to you first. You know, when you watch both speeches, '08 versus last night - and, by the way, she did a beautiful job. You know, but, it is mighty similar. Can we agree that this does appear to be plagiarism? SCOTTIE NELL HUGHES, TRUMP SUPPORTER: You know what, from my

perspective, it absolutely - I don't know about plagiarism, but it does - it's very, very much similar, and it's at least inspired by Michelle Obama's speech. You know, it's a common theme amongst Republicans and Democrats, the values that were referenced in both speeches. So I do agree, there's got to be some sort of reference. The question is, was it intentionally, was it purposely meant to be pulled off and put in, or was it something that maybe - and I do think that actually Melania did write this herself. We reported before this speech was given that she worked on it for five weeks, as you said.

BALDWIN: Right. Right.

HUGHES: And she reference - she did her research. English is her third language. And I think she was inspired by this and other parts. I mean there's a reference to a rock 'n' roll song in here as well. I think she did this. She pulled it together. Where I find fault is the editor, the editor that's with the campaign, whoever that was that read it, should have known.

BALDWIN: Do you know - I mean that's - that's what we don't know.

HUGHES: Right.

BALDWIN: And I asked that question to Sara, and we don't know who else would have taken a look at it.

HUGHES: No.

BALDWIN: And so let me turn to you, from, you know, your Obama years and what you know about speeches.

You know, let's say Melania wrote the speech. Let's, you know, go with her, what she told Matt Lauer, that she wrote most of the speech. That said, who else would have taken a look at this? You have millions of eyeballs watching her.

DAN PFEIFFER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Right. Every member of the campaign's leadership would have read it. Any normal functioning campaign would have a team of researchers who go through every single word uttered at the convention to make sure this didn't happen. It's absolutely mindboggling that they allowed this to happen and can't - and the speech is always treated with the most care is the spouse of the candidate, because that's the person who is not a politician. This is new to them. And you want to protect them from any sort of mistakes. She was let down by her - by the staff of the convention (ph).

HUGHES: Yes.

BALDWIN: And so that's the issue is whether or not - why then, if there had-had to have been other eyeballs on this speech, why not some sort of firing or disciplinary issue? Does that speak to a larger issue, do you think, Carl Bernstein, with the campaign?

CARL BERNSTEIN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think the larger issue is Manafort and what he said today. The whole idea when he's talking about crazy. What's crazy is him saying it's not plagiarism. It clearly is. The other fascinating thing is to hear how Mrs. Trump was inspired by Michelle Obama. That's a - that's the - that something that -

BALDWIN: She's always (ph) - she's only (ph) Michelle Obama.

HUGHES: Yes, but she has said - but she has said that often and that's a -

BERNSTEIN: That's something that - no, I think - I think it's really interesting. I think it's something to dwell on given what this campaign is. Look, this election - let's not get too far in the weeds over this. This will go away at some point.

BALDWIN: It will. It will.

BERNSTEIN: But this election is the Gettysburg of the cultural wars. It is that important (ph). Whoever wins this election, the culture wars may be over, but they're never going to be the same. It is about two Americas. Whoever wins, we are going to see a different America. And that - what we saw in the hall last night, was that battle being waged. And I think somewhat effectively in terms of those who are in the middle, who are independents, I think that there was some ground gained in the cultural wars last night for the Trump people. And this is not going to -

BALDWIN: Ground game positively?

BERNSTEIN: Positively.

BALDWIN: Positively.

BERNSTEIN: Not in terms of Melania's speech, but in terms of what happened on the floor.

BALDWIN: Jump in.

ANA MARIE COX, SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, MTV NEWS: I - OK, (INAUDIBLE). I am - I didn't hear her say four score and seven years ago last night, but I have to try (ph) that that was part of it.

BERNSTEIN: I'm not talking about her. I'm talking about what happened on the floor before her.

COX: But I'm - I'm happy to move past this. I'm happy to move past this, as someone who's not a supporter of the Trump campaign, I'm happy to drop this and just move on to the racism and homophobia.

[14:10:07] BERNSTEIN: Yes.

COX: I think that's much more relevant.

BERNSTEIN: Independent voters (ph).

COX: I mean I think that, you know, Pence's record is something that we - has sort of gotten a pass as people have been sort of - the shiny object of that interview that he did for "60 Minutes" with those chairs and the interrupting and -

BALDWIN: Right.

COX: I think Trump's hand up the back of his jacket. I'm not sure.

BALDWIN: Right.

COX: I think we sort of, you know, skipped over some of the policy issues and some of the stuff - other stuff that was said at this convention, including, you know, things that are sort of official surrogates for the Trump campaign saying, you know, things that are pretty - pretty objectionable. And the actual policies of the Trump campaign to the extent they have them.

I don't think this is a sign of a campaign coming apart at the seams because this is a campaign without seams. This is a campaign that's like a used piece of gum, just rolled around in a bunch of lint. People hanging on -

HUGHES: Wow.

(CROSS TALK)

BALDWIN: (INAUDIBLE) but let me just add, you know, one piece of criticism was the fact that we know that Donald Trump called in to Bill O'Reilly last night on Fox at the exact same time during a very emotional speech. Patricia Smith was speaking about her son who died in Benghazi, one of the four Americans. And that was when Trump decides to call in. I don't know if that was Trump's call or other folks within the campaign didn't know. Not maybe the most sensitive time to do that, which I think maybe questions larger seam issues.

COX: Yes.

HUGHES: And to that - that is a very valuable criticism right there. But let me say this, you have to understand, this is wrong that this is what we're talking about. I mean it's not what we're talking about, but this is taking away from last night, which was a lot of meat and potatoes to the conservative base they really would have enjoyed. You might see it one way -

COX: More meat than potatoes, I would say.

HUGHES: Well, but there's both choice (ph). I mean that - this is actually the nutrition that the Republican Party needs, the base needs, to show that this was actually what the candidate's all about, those core conservative values that all the speaker last night were talking about. You might not agree with them, but instead we're talking about this, where I can guarantee -

COX: (INAUDIBLE) let's talk about it.

BALDWIN: (INAUDIBLE) I agree. Yes, strong political (ph) speeches.

COX: No, no, let's talk about last night. Let's talk about last night.

BERNSTEIN: (INAUDIBLE) your wrong, but this is the fault of the campaign and it's a level of -

BALDWIN: It is the fault of the campaign.

BERNSTEIN: It's a level of ineptitude today that is indicative of -

HUGHES: Well, how they're dealing with this continues - but why is that continuing? Is it something the campaign's wanting or not? It's -

BERNSTEIN: Well, what Donald -

PFEIFFER: Well, every time Paul Manafort goes out and speaks, he is compounding this problem. If they had said first thing this morning -

BERNSTEIN: Right.

HUGHES: We're sorry.

PFEIFFER: We made a mistake, we will take action, it - it'd be over.

BALDWIN: And saying something about Hillary Clinton (INAUDIBLE) -

BERNSTEIN: But - but -

PFEIFFER: Right.

BERNSTEIN: I don't think it's possible that Manafort would have said that without checking with Donald Trump.

PFEIFFER: Oh, I -

BERNSTEIN: So I think -

COX: This a sign also -

BERNSTEIN: Once again we have to look to the candidate. This is the candidate in charge of his campaign. It is his response. It is utter - if Manafort said that on his own, he ought to be fired twice. So -

HUGHES: But then again -

COX: And he actually went - the responses of the campaign here, the sort of circling of the wagons, I think what we're seeing is something - the campaign that's more loyal to its candidate, more afraid of getting fired than they are of doing a good job.

HUGHES: No, because right now we know that Mr. Trump is angry, and rightfully so. His wife is being speared. He's very, very defensive of his family and his wife. Right now I think that's the controversy why you haven't seen someone fired yet. I'm going to put yet on there because I think somebody will pay for this.

BALDWIN: OK. HUGHES: Mr. Trump is not going to let his wife be smeared publicly, like no man would, but especially someone who's valued his wife for 18 years. His marriage has been criticized today. His wife has been criticized. He is angry and I think he's trying to figure out, who exactly is the right person to hold accountable.

BALDWIN: Just looking - a final note, just to you. Doesn't this make the job of Don Jr. and Tiffany a tad more scrutinized, challenging this evening because of everything that happened last evening?

HUGHES: Absolutely. And I guarantee that - maybe that's part - we know this convention was going to be unconventional. We were going to - they were going to steal the narrative no matter what every single day. And, once again, top to bottom, every news network, we're talking about Donald Trump. So, in the end, this is just another example of how he won the primary. It's continuing on.

BALDWIN: OK. Scottie, Carl, Dana and Ana Marie, thank you. Thank you very much.

COX: Thank you.

BALDWIN: We didn't think it would be dull. It's definitely not. Welcome to Cleveland.

Listen, we're happy we're here. Trump actually once compared him to a child molester who cannot be cured, but tonight Ben Carson will speak on Trump's behalf.

And a bombshell report today. "New York Magazine" says the head of Fox News has been given a deadline to resign or be fired after new revelations now from Megyn Kelly. A lot to talk about on this Tuesday. Don't move a muscle. I'm Brooke Baldwin. This is CNN's special live coverage.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:18:13] BALDWIN: Welcome back. We're live in Cleveland. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Let's take a look, shall we, at this evening's big roster for speakers here at the Republican National Convention. And you will definitely see some folks who haven't always had the most flattering things to say about Donald Trump. House Speaker Paul Ryan, for one, who just in the last 24 hours said Trump was, quote, "not my kind of conservative." Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, who says Trump is best scripted because he doesn't know much about policy. His former Republican rival, Dr. Ben Carson, who even while endorsing Trump said, quote, "are there better people? Probably." And then there is New Jersey Governor Chris Christie, who some say is maybe still a little bitter about losing out on being on the Trump ticket.

So, with me now, Jackie Kucinich, Washington bureau chief for "The Daily Beast," and David Gregory, host of "The David Gregory Show" podcast and former moderator for "Meet the Press."

Great to see you all. We need sunglasses for the studio, I know, we're all tear (INAUDIBLE).

JACKIE KUCINICH, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, seriously.

BALDWIN: So let's just begin with Paul Ryan. How does he - I mean it's fascinating to look at the different people and seeing sort of what they've said in recent months or recent hours and knowing that they're up there, obviously, trying to unify the party. How does he walk that fine line?

DAVID GREGORY, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I think he's the most interesting to watch because when he says he's a different kind of conservative. He wants Donald Trump - may not want him to be president, but will support him because he doesn't like the alternative. But what you're going to hear from Paul Ryan tonight is his agenda for an economic revival led by Republicans as the leader of the House of Representatives. And he's going to make it very clear tonight, and if Trump were to become president, that he wants his agenda to prevail, not Trump's agenda. He wants to be the one who's actually driving this. That is going to speak to the conflict within the party about the economic way forward, issues like trade, taxes, spending and otherwise. Paul Ryan really is a leader in the Republican Party who wants to use that leverage over Donald Trump.

[14:20:07] BALDWIN: Does he pull a Rick Perry and not mention Trump's name?

KUCINICH: I think he'll mention Trump's name probably - if he wasn't before, he will now. But I also think you're going to hear a lot about the Supreme Court, which is a unifier with republicans because if you get Hillary Clinton, you're not going to get the justices that you want that could shape the court for generations, in particular if they put young people on the court. So I think you're going hear people like Mitch McConnell and some of the other senators that are speaking this evening talk about that, because that, to conservatives in particular, is a very unifying front against Hillary Clinton.

GREGORY: Well, if they want party unity for these down ballot races -

BALDWIN: Yes.

KUCINICH: Yes.

GREGORY: If you - if you - if there are House races, that's important to Paul Ryan, important to the party. Governor races as well. Senate races. You're going to hear all of that. But don't forget, this whole event, this whole convention is Trump having an opportunity to unite the party and having Paul Ryan up there does a lot to do that. And I'm sure Ryan will underline where they see things the same. But what Ryan is not going to do is put up with the kind of hard-edge rhetoric or any kind of intolerant rhetoric that we've heard from Trump.

BALDWIN: OK. Four years ago, when we were all doing this in Tampa, we remember Chris Christie talking a lot about Chris Christie -

GREGORY: Yes. BALDWIN: And not so much about Mitt Romney. Now he's been buds, I know, with Mr. Trump for decades. Is he still bitter? How will that translate on stage?

KUCINICH: Ah, you know -

BALDWIN: David looks to you.

KUCINICH: I know.

GREGORY: No, I just didn't want to - I didn't want to be so domineering.

KUCINICH: No. No, no. No, you know, I think Chris Christie is going to put on a happy face tonight.

BALDWIN: Yes.

KUCINICH: I don't think he's - because he was so roundly mocked for that speech that he didn't mention Mitt Romney once and he just talked about Chris Christie. Particularly, I think he knows Chris Christie - or he knows Donald Trump better than he knows Mitt Romney. This is someone - and he also - they have a similar style in a lot of ways. So I think you'll hear more about Donald Trump from Chris Christie than you do Chris Christie.

GREGORY: I agree with that for an additional reason, which is, I think that Christie didn't really care for Romney -

KUCINICH: Yes.

GREGORY: And for his campaign and didn't like the way they were headed, you know, didn't like the vetting process when he was being looked at for VP.

BALDWIN: Yes.

GREGORY: I think Chris Christie right now understands that if Trump were to prevail, that he's got a big future in this administration.

BALDWIN: He would have a role somewhere.

KUCINICH: Yes.

GREGORY: So I think that will be reflected tonight.

BALDWIN: OK, so now for the fun question, as we were all sitting there. I mean we're all watching every single speech last night. And then you see like the black silhouette and the man walking through the doors and the smoke and the "we are the champions" and that was, you know, the big Trump entrance last night. His big night is Thursday night in his speech. What is his - what is his walk-in?

KUCINICH: Two words - golden escalator. He's going to roll it in, come down just like he came down that first day. It's going to be a nostalgia move. BALDWIN: (INAUDIBLE) swinging over the audience.

GREGORY: (INAUDIBLE) I can't - but gold has to be involved. But I - but think about which one - when Bill Clinton did the slow walk with the low camera move into the -

KUCINICH: Oh, yes.

GREGORY: What year was that?

KUCINICH: You got me. You got me.

GREGORY: I think it was four or eight years ago. That was the big Bill Clinton, all the job creation and stuff like that. So it was a brig celebratory thing for Bill Clinton. So I can imagine that. Very much - very cult (ph) of personality.

BALDWIN: Cult of personality.

GREGORY: Yes.

BALDWIN: All right, you two.

GREGORY: But don't forget, tonight it's also his son, too, right? He's going to speak.

BALDWIN: Don Jr.

KUCINICH: Yes.

GREGORY: And that's important because this is going to -

BALDWIN: And Tiffany.

KUCINICH: And his daughter.

GREGORY: Right. A lot of kind of rounding out who Trump is. So there's a lot on the agenda to try to accomplish. And I think if you look at last night, the first couple of hours -

BALDWIN: I think the pressure's on for them after last night.

GREGORY: It will be on. Well, it will be. And I think that each hour kind of has its own theme. And what's beneficial to them is that they have no filter, a direct shot at tens of millions of people to make that case.

BALDWIN: OK. David Gregory, Jackie Kucinich, we'll see what happens through the rest of the week.

GREGORY: OK.

BALDWIN: Thank you very much.

Next, not many people in our media sphere are more powerful than the Roger Ailes, head of Fox News. Now it appears his time at the top may be over. And a new report suggests it's partially because of his biggest star.

Also ahead, while Ailes may be on the way out, the Trump campaign says no one will lose their job over the Melania Trump speech controversy last night. We have more on that today. More on the fallout. What happens next here in Cleveland?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:28:50] BALDWIN: All right, here we go. This bombshell report today involving the head of Fox News and one of its biggest stars. We're talking about Roger Ailes, already accused of sexual harassment by a former anchor. He's apparently on his way out. Let's get straight to CNN's senior media correspondent, host of "Reliable Sources," Brian Stelter, here in Cleveland with me, as is the writer of this damning piece of journal here, Gabriel Sherman. Gabe with "New York Magazine."

First, just tell us your reporting. What do you know?

GABRIEL SHERMAN, NATIONAL AFFAIRS EDITOR, "NEW YORK MAGAZINE": Well, what we know is that Megyn Kelly has come forth in this investigation that's being done by an outside law firm into the allegations that Gretchen Carlson raised in her lawsuit. And she has told the lawyers that she herself experienced sexual harassment by Roger Ailes as of ten years ago.

BALDWIN: Ten years ago.

SHERMAN: Ten years ago and she's -

BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: When she was a young reporter at Fox.

SHERMAN: Yes, rising up through the Washington bureau, yes.

BALDWIN: And since then she has obviously risen to where she is.

SHERMAN: Yes. And the other critical piece of information we now know is that as of yesterday the Murdochs told Roger Ailes' representatives that he has until August 1st to resign quietly and amicably, otherwise he could be fired for - terminated for cause after that. So they've gone to him with this ultimatum. And this is where the state of play stands.

STELTER: We're talking about a GOP kingmaker.

[14:30:02] BALDWIN: Yes.

STELTER: A man who ran campaigns for Republicans decades ago.

BALDWIN: Huge. Huge, huge, huge.

STELTER: Now a television production legend. He built Fox News from nothing into the powerhouse it is today. If he is to step down or to be fired in the weeks to come -

SHERMAN: Incredible. STELTER: It means a lot