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Mike Pence Speaks American Conservative Union; RNC's Sean Spicer Defends Melania Trump; Melania Trump's Convention Speech Under Fire; Mike Pence Speaks At Conservative Luncheon. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired July 19, 2016 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, I'm Wolf Blitzer. It's 1:00 p.m. here in Cleveland. Wherever you're watching from around the world, thanks very much for joining us.

It's day two of the Republican National Convention. It's kicking off in Cleveland again in just a few hours. Day one saw its share of unrest with outbursts during the vote on accepting the convention rules. It's possible, possible, we could see a similar scene today during some of the official actions since today is the day Donald Trump will be officially nominated.

The theme tonight is Make America Work Again. Special focus tonight on jobs, the economy, and the narrative that Hillary Clinton presidency would be equal to a third term of President Barack Obama's presidency.

Making that case on the establishment side will be the Republican leadership in the House and the Senate. The House speaker, Paul Ryan, the House majority leader, Kevin McCarthy, and the Senate majority leader, Mitch McConnell, they will all be speaking. Two former rivals will also be taking the stage tonight, the New Jersey Governor, Chris Christie, who was in the running for the vice presidential slot, didn't make it; and Dr. Ben Carson who was the first of the primary rivals' support to back Donald Trump.

Also tonight, two more members of the Trump family will be speaking, Tiffany Trump, the youngest daughter, a recent graduate of the University of Pennsylvania; and Donald Trump, Jr. We'll hear from them later tonight.

Family, clearly, a very important theme in this Trump convention. Last night, it was Donald Trump's wife, Melania, that had the prime speaking spot. But her message, which was a powerful, strong message, may have gotten lost in the aftermath because of similarities to the speech that Michelle Obama gave at the Democratic Convention back in 2008.

Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHELLE OBAMA: Barack and I were raised with so many of the same values.

MELANIA TRUMP: From a young age, my parents impressed on me the values.

MICHELLE OBAMA: You work hard for what you want in life.

MELANIA TRUMP: That you work hard for what you want in life.

MICHELLE OBAMA: That your word is your bond, that you do what you say you're going to do.

MELANIA TRUMP: That your word is your bond and you do what you say and keep your promise.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: And here is another passage. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHELLE OBAMA: We want our children and all children in this nation to know --

MELANIA TRUMP: Because we want our children in this nation to know --

MICHELLE OBAMA: That the only limit to the height of your achievements is the reach of your dreams and your willingness to work hard for them.

MELANIA TRUMP: That the only limit to your achievements is the strength of your dreams and your willingness to work for them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: The Trump campaign chairman, Paul Manafort, called the accusations -- and there are a lot of accusations of plagiarism out there, he said those accusations were absurd. Here's more of his response at the briefing earlier this morning in Cleveland.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAUL MANAFORT, CHAIRMAN, TRUMP CAMPAIGN: We don't believe there's anything in that speech that doesn't reflect her thinking and we don't think that -- and she says it's, you know, we're comfortable that the words that she used are words that were personal to her. The fact that there are things like care and respect and compassion, you know, those are not extraordinary words. And certainly when you talk about family, they're normal words. It's politics. We recognize it and we're just going to move on.

We're focusing on the message that Melania Trump gave last night. The American people are focusing on it. We're very pleased about it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: The Republican National Committee chairman, Reince Priebus, however, said he'd probably fire Melania Trump's speech writer, and sources tell CNN that Donald Trump, right now, is furious. So far, there's been no reaction, no reaction at all, from Michelle Obama. Here with us is Sam Clovis. He's the co-chairman of the Donald Trump Campaign, the key advisor to the presumptive nominee. Sam, thanks very much for joining us.

SAM CLOVIS, CO-CHAIRMAN, TRUMP NATIONAL CAMPAIGN: Always, Wolf, great to be here.

BLITZER: So, what do you make of this these acquisitions of plagiarism? You heard how similar -- what Michelle Obama said and what Melania Trump said.

CLOVIS: Oh, that's actually the first time I've heard them side by side, and I think that the language is common enough that it would not be impossible or a stress (ph) to believe that they would come to the same conclusions or the same language. It is a little ironic that they are -- that in some places they are exact. But we see this often.

You know, I am an academic and we do a lot of writing. We see it when we -- when we check each other's work and that's why we have peer review. And sometimes, you have to go back, and if we see similarities, you ask people to paraphrase and do different things.

BLITZER: Because it would be one thing if there were just one or two little lines, but there were several -- there were three separate passages that were extremely similar.

[13:05:05] CLOVIS: Yes, and -- but in an 18-minute speech. I mean -- and we're talking, you know, maybe 30 to 15 seconds a speech there out of an 18-minute speech.

I thought the thing that was interesting last night was I was -- I was absolutely spell bound when she came out on stage. One, she -- there is no way to describe how striking she is. I mean, just in her physical presence. And then, her eloquence last night was beyond belief. And so, really, what's happening here is we're seeing politics take away from what I thought was an extraordinary performance by the next first lady of the United States.

BLITZER: If, in fact, it was plagiarism, should someone be fired?

CLOVIS: That's up to somebody else. I know what we do in academic circles when we run into these things. So, that's really up to someone else.

BLITZER: What would you do in academic circles?

CLOVIS: Well, in academic circles, you go back and you sit down with people. And being students, I have a lot of students. And we used to turn it in (INAUDIBLE) all the time. And we'd check all that stuff. And we'd sit down and ask them, you know, what was your intent? Because sometimes it is not intentional. Sometimes you'll hear something, and this is -- or -- and oftentimes in speeches, you'll hear a speech, a line that'll stick with you and then you'll plug it in yourself. And you really don't realize that that was -- you know, that may cross a line with some folks. BLITZER: All right, stand by for a moment. Mike Pence, the

presumptive vice presidential nominee, he's speaking at a restaurant right now. I want to listen in briefly.

GOV. MIKE PENCE (R), PRESUMPTIVE VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE (live): My fellow conservatives, it is very humbling for me, as a small town boy from southern Indiana, whose grandfather came to this great country in 1923, to think that I would step to a podium and accept my party's nomination to run and serve as the next vice president of the United States of America.

I'm honored to be with you today, honored to able to come by and thank you, and thank the American Conservative Union for everything you've done for the cause and the country throughout my 57 years.

And I'm joined today by the highest ranking official in the state of Indiana, the future second lady of the United States of America. Karen Pence is with us with our daughter, Charlotte.

I'm so grateful for Chris's introduction, for his great leadership at the NRA. After all those kind words, I prefer a shorter introduction. I'm a Christian, a conservative and a Republican, in that order.

My own journey may be like yours, it's been an interesting one, in public life. I actually started out in the other party when I was a young person, became active in -- I was the Democratic Party youth coordinator in Bartholomew County, Indiana, kind of a community organizer, if you will.

But it was after I heard the voice and the ideals of our 40th president that I knew that I knew that I knew in my heart that my place was in the Republican Party.

I started our family, married the girl of my dreams, and started running for office. Like Newt Gingrich, it took me three times to get elected to Washington, D.C. but we made it.

It's been a fascinating journey that many of you in the room were a part of and continue to be a part of. A journey that began with a time for choosing speech in 1964 in the candidacy of Barry Goldwater. We'd culminate in the great election of Ronald Reagan of 1980 and in Newt Gingrich's Republican revolution that took over the Congress after decades of Democrat control.

But I actually -- I ran for Congress first before the Republican revolution, but, frankly, sometimes I felt like I got elected after it was over. By the time I arrived in Washington, D.C., the first priority of a Republican president was No Child Left Behind, one of the largest expansions of federal government's role in education in the history of the department.

Soon, I found myself battling against a president and leaders in my own party on that issue, on the expansion of entitlements. And I'm proud to say, I was one of the first to fight against the Wall Street bailout on Capitol Hill. I watched, as our party lost their way, and, not surprisingly, lost the majority in 2006. [13:10:00] But then, I had the great privilege of being a part of a renewed Republican conference. And I was part of the leadership team that retired Nancy Pelosi as speaker of the House in 2010.

In 2012, it was back home again to Indiana. I had the opportunity to step in as governor of the great state of Indiana. I followed on the heels of a great friend and champion of conservative ideals and a great, great leader in our state, Mitch Daniels. He put our fiscal house in order, but I knew if we -- if we -- if we allowed the people of Indiana to keep more of what they earned. If we made the right investments in education, innovation and reform. If we made the right investments in the kind of government that Hoosiers might expect, then we could go from good to great. And we did.

In the last four years, we passed the largest state tax cut in Indiana history, and now are home to the largest school voucher program in the United States of America. Unemployment in Indiana was over eight percent when I became governor, and it's below five percent today. Hoosier businesses, large and small, we've created more than 150,000 net new jobs. And here in our bicentennial year in my state, we have more Hoosiers going to work than ever before in the 200-year history of the state of Indiana.

But that's what strong Republican leadership gets you. And that's exactly the kind of strong Republican leadership that Donald Trump will bring to the White House. Trust me when I say this, when we come together as a party and a people, we re-elect strong conservative majorities in the House and the Senate and elect this good man as the 45th president of the United States, I know in my heart of hearts we will make America great again, at home and abroad.

He's a builder. He's a fighter. He's a father. And he's a patriot. And I have to tell you, having had some time to spend with this good man and his family, I know that Donald Trump will be a great president of the United States of America because his heart beats with the heart of the American people.

I honestly believe -- I honestly believe in the collective wisdom of the American people and the capacity of the people of our nation to know who we need, who the right person is at the right time for America. It happened in 1980 when Ronald Reagan was chosen, that we had a man, like our nominee this year, who, although he had achieved great heights in his own career, never lost touch with everyday Americans.

To be around our nominee, as I had the privilege to be, not on the campaign trail but out among his associates, people that he's employed for years, and among his family, I have a sense of this man. I have a sense of his heart. I have a sense of his hands-on style of leadership. And for all the world, he reminds me of Ronald Reagan. Ronald Reagan achieved great things in his life and his career, a movie star, a celebrity, a governor of the great state of California. But he never lost the common touch, did he?

One of my most cherished speeches of Ronald Reagan was his farewell address in the Oval Office. In fact, he talked about being in a motorcade. And I can report to you today, here at the ACU, I came over on my first trip in a motorcade today. I actually got out of the car in the alley, and I saw all these cars. And I turned to the security official and I said, are they all with us? Welcome to our world, dear.

And I'll never forget those words, and I'll paraphrase them if you'll forgive me. In the Oval Office when Ronald Reagan talked about speeding by and seeing everyday Americans waving and how, in his heart of heart, even after eight years, it literally transformed our nation and transformed the world, Ronald Reagan spoke about how he wanted just to reach out and touch the people that were waving along the roadsides. Because that's where his heart was at.

[13:15:10]

And I submit to you today, having gotten to know this good man who is our nominee, Donald Trump may have achieved great heights in business and industry and in the world of entertainment, but his heart is with everyday Americans and he will fight every day to strengthen this nation and bring America back.

(APPLAUSE)

So the time has come for us to come together. Primaries are over. It was a big stage up there with a lot of extraordinarily talented men and women. But I say to my fellow conservatives today, it's time for us to come together. Time for us to come together around this good man and reelecting Republican majorities in the House and the Senate because this is no ordinary time in the life of our nation.

The truth of the matter is the agenda Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton has weakened America's place in the world and stifled our nation's economy, and so we must decide, here and now, that Hillary Clinton will never become President of the United States of America.

(APPLAUSE)

For the sake of our troops who deserve a commander in chief to have their back, for the sake of hard-working Americans and businesses who deserve a president who will get Washington, D.C., off their back, and for the sake of a Supreme Court that will uphold the sanctity of life, our Second Amendment, and our God-given liberties, we must elect Donald Trump as the 45th President of the United States of America.

(APPLAUSE)

And we must be confident.

With this I'll close. We must be confident in the choice the American people will make and have made. I got a chance to meet Ronald Reagan in 1988 when I was preparing to lose my first campaign for Congress.

(LAUGHTER)

We went to the White House. You can probably Google it online and find a picture of someone who looks alarmingly like my son sitting next to Ronald Reagan.

(LAUGHTER)

We were waiting anxiously. Karen and I were in the East Room with a short line of candidates, waiting for the photo op with the president. They'd handed me a card about what to say, something about we needed a bridge or we needed a road or something about Indiana that we could put in a press release. And I turned to that young lady over there, and I said, you know, this man is the reason why I became a Republican. And I just would like to say something from my heart. And my wife, as she always does, says, just tell him what's on your heart.

So I sat down, it's in the Blue Room, I sat down across from the president -- for all the world, I felt like I was talking to Mt. Rushmore. I was a little nervous, but I collected myself and the president graciously asked as cameras were clicking, he said, Mike, how's the campaign going? And I said, well, it's going fine, but I got something I'd like to say. And he said, well, say it. And I said, Mr. President, I would just like to thank you for everything you've done for this country and everything you've done to encourage my generation of Americans to believe this country again.

And for all the world, for the rest of my life, I will believe in that moment that the 40th President of the United States of America blushed, and said, well, that's a very nice thing of you to say.

(LAUGHTER)

(APPLAUSE)

[13:20:00] Like he'd never heard it before.

(LAUGHTER)

Then a few minutes later I understood --

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Mike Pence there, presumptive Republican vice presidential nominee, speaking at the American Conservative Union here in Ohio, making the case for Donald Trump.

You know, Sam -- we're talking to Sam Clovis from the Trump campaign, national campaign, co-chairman -- it was interesting. He's going to be officially nominated tomorrow night. There will be speeches mentioning him, videos. And last night, barely heard his name mentioned. Did you notice that?

SAM CLOVIS, TRUMP NATIONAL CAMPAIGN CO-CHAIRMAN: Well, I did notice that. I was pretty -- it got off to a roaring start there. I will tell ya, it was very emotional early on. And I think that the speech that Marcus Luttrell gave, and it's because I know Marcus and I think that's probably one of the reasons that it affected me so, and it set the tone for me for the rest of the night. I was really anticipating a really gangbusters evening. I was not disappointed. I thought that Rudy blew the doors off of the place and I felt that Dave Clark, Sheriff Dave Clark, was just spectacular in his articulation of the case he made. And then finally, Melania -- and not to diminish any of the other speakers. You know, my good friends were up on that stage last night, too, and Joni Ernst and others, but it was just a fantastic evening for me, but Marcus was the one who really got me started.

BLITZER: Yes, there were a lot of --

CLOVIS: He just set the tone for everything.

BLITZER: There were a lot of powerful speeches up there.

CLOVIS: Yes.

BLITZER: And from your perspective, it's a pity that all of a sudden the whole plagiarism issue is sort of hovering over --

CLOVIS: You really miss the substance -- you really miss the spectacular elegance and eloquence of Melania. And I think that really is a detraction on this whole issue, and that's unfortunate. But it is politics. And we understand that.

BLITZER: Sam Clovis, thanks very much for joining us.

CLOVIS: You're always welcome. Great to be with you.

BLITZER: Thank you.

Donald Trump is an unconventional candidate so it's no surprise that this is a different kind of Republican convention here in Cleveland.

For more on that, let's bring in the chief strategist, the communications director for the Republican National Committee, Sean Spicer, who's with us as well. Sean, thanks very much for joining us.

SEAN SPICER, RNC COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Thanks for having me.

BLITZER: What's your reaction to this whole plagiarism Melania? Because I know you -- you must be upset that, instead of focusing in on those powerful speeches that we heard all of last night, they were well-delivered, the introduction, the stagecraft, all of that was first rate, but then all of a sudden, the comparisons to Michelle Obama's speech eight years ago and this speech by Melania Trump last night. All of a sudden, that's sort of dominating the political news on this day.

SPICER: I agree with Sam. The speech was phenomenal. Her presence, her delivery, was first rate, and I think a lot of people who've never heard Melania Trump last night were unbelievably blown away and impressed with it.

When it comes to the speeches, let's actually put this in perspective. And Sam did a really good job of laying the table. We had a 2,000 word statement, we're talking about 70 words, three passages. OK and this idea of plagiarism, if we want to talk about it, lets' talk to it. Melania Trump said, "You work hard for what you et in life." John Legend said, "Work hard to be anything you want in life." Kid Rock said, "Work hard to be anything you want in life."

Melania Trump said, "The strength of your dreams and willingness to work for them." Twilight Sparkle from "My Little Pony" said, "This is your dream. Anything you can do in your dreams, you can do now."

I mean, if we want to take a bunch of phrases and run them through a Google and say, hey, who else has said them? I can come up with a list in five minutes. And that's what this is. I mean that's -- it is really -- it's sad that we've taken this amazing moment with the world introduction of Melania Trump and gone through and allowed the Clinton campaign to say, hey, we Googled a bunch of phrases and matched it up to three things that Mrs. Obama said.

BLITZER: But the similarities were pretty stark. You hear it back to back.

SPICER: But you just heard -- I mean, look, I just quoted Twilight Sparkle from "My Little Pony". She said something similar too. So did Mrs. Obama plagiarize her? I would never say that. But these are common phrases that were used over and over again. And I think it's an attempt -- and I give the Clinton campaign credit because they did a really good job of taking three phrases, going out there, and trying -- and matching them up. I think Mrs. Obama gave a great speech. I think Melania Trump hit it out of the park. And to diminish it like this is sad. Because you can go down a list of people that have said exactly the same thing over and over again.

BLITZER: But -- with the Clinton campaign, there were a whole bunch of people who recognized -- there was one guy on Twitter who's going to be interviewed later on CNN who saw the similarities. Then everyone else started to pick them up --

SPICER: Right. But in the same way that you could've made the similarities to Mrs. Obama, you could make them to House of Pain, Public Enemy, Ice T, Akon, John Legend. I mean, at some point, it's either everybody's plagiarizing each other -- you have three common phrases that were used. I mean, if you start saying "My word is my bond," for goodness' sake, I've used that a bunch of times too. You've probably used that.

BLITZER: So here's the question, your boss, Reince Priebus, the chairman of the Republican National -- he said the speechwriter who did it should be fired.

SPICER: No, he didn't. Here's what he said. Again, "If you found the speechwriter -- if you found that your speechwriter had done that, would you fire them?" "Probably, but again it depends on the circumstances and how these things are written."

[13:20:00] So the question that Reince was asked is if your speechwriter plagiarized, would you fire him? The answer is yes. And I think if the speechwriter for the Trump campaign had done that, they would be fired. But they didn't. So this is -- it was a silly hypothetical question, and he answered it.

So to suggest that this is plagiarism, again, if we want to go down the list of people who've used the exact same phrases, we can go through over and over again.

BLITZER: So you're saying it was just a coincidence that what Michelle Obama said in 2008 and what Melania Trump said last night just happened to be almost exactly the same words? In those three passages.

SPICER: No -- but if you're going to say that, then I think -- then we say that Michelle Obama -- you know, again, I've got a list of people who've said the exact same phrase prior to Mrs. Obama using it. So at some point, either everybody's plagiarizing everybody or this is a silly exercise pushed by the Clinton campaign.

BLITZER: And so you think this whole issue is over with, nobody should be fired?

SPICER: No! I think you get fired when you do something wrong. And if there's evidence that something was done wrong, then someone should get fired. Otherwise, I think that we should start looking at the substance of the speech and saying that Mrs. Trump delivered a phenomenal speech. She should be very proud of it. I think the world got introduced to an amazing woman who's going to be the next First Lady.

BLITZER: You've heard these reports that Donald Trump is furious?

SPICER: I'm sure he is furious! His wife delivered an unbelievable speech, he flew down here to introduce them (sic), you could see the love that they have together when he got out on stage. He was so proud of her, and to see this happen to her speech like this, to the introduction to the world, I would be furious too! I can't believe he's not, you know, blowing up right now because I would be -- as a husband, if someone can that to my wife's introduction to the world stage, I'd be furious as well.

BLITZER: She's apparently very upset herself.

SPICER: Of course! Again, you're -- I mean, why wouldn't you be upset?

BLITZER: Don't you think that someone on the staff should have checked the speech just to double check to make sure, you know, there's all these opportunities to go back and take a look at her speech to make sure that there were no allegations that could come up with plagiarism? With -- in other words, the vetting of her speech --

SPICER: Right, but, again, I just read you phrases --

BLITZER: But it could have been better, right?

SPICER: Oh, I don't know. I think she did a phenomenal job.

BLITZER: Oh, she did an amazing job. There's no doubt about that, but the vetting of the text of the speech.

SPICER: I mean, so, but -- yes, she could've said -- instead of saying , "My word is my bond", she could've said, "The word of mine is --" I mean, this is -- we're talking about word placement. This is silly.

So I guess the answer is, there are times when you probably go on air and give a similar report to something that was said on MSNBC or FOX. I don't think anyone turns around and says, Wolf, you said, "Donald Trump said the following tonight." That's exactly how, you know, Bret Baier phrased it. That would be insane. There are certain common phrases that we all use, and to suggest that somehow because you used the same exact common phrase as someone else, that you're lifting something from them is a little ridiculous.

BLITZER: I know you got to run, but tonight what's the main theme, what's the main hope for convention on day two?

SPICER: I think tonight we're going to talk about putting America back to work, and I think you're going hear a lot of the great speakers, Chris Christie, Ben Carson. You're going to hear Don, Jr., Tiffany Trump.

Again, part of the goal this convention is to get -- we know that Donald Trump's an entertainer, a successful businessman, but as you hear the father that he is, the family man that he is, the businessman that he is, and the relationships that he had, there's a reason people work for him for 20 and 30 years. It's because he's gracious, he's caring, and to peel back that image a little bit and let people know a little bit about more about who he is, is going to be what you really get through tonight.

BLITZER: And I hope they're going through all those speeches and vetting them right now to make sure you don't have tomorrow, when you come back here, we're going to have a similar conversation.

SPICER: I'm sure.

BLITZER: Because you know that there are a lot of people out there that are going to be taking a close look at every paragraph.

SPICER: And again, just one last thing, Mrs. Trump clearly knew she was on the world stage, 35 million, 40 million people watching her. Do you think that they wouldn't have thought, hey, look, I mean, she knew what she was doing. If she was looking at a speech from somebody else, she would know that this is a world -- you know, that she was on the world stage. So I think the idea that it was lifted in any way doesn't even make logistical sense. Or doesn't pass the logic test.

BLITZER: Because everybody will be watching. I don't think -- by the way, if someone on her staff, one of the speechwriters, did that and plagiarized, I don't she knww about it. I'm sure she had no idea that those words were similar to what Michelle Obama said eight years ago. We can leave it on that note.

SPICER: Thank you.

BLITZER: Sean, thanks very much for being here.

SPICER: You bet.

BLITZER: Appreciate it very much.

Coming up, a one-on-one interview with the New Jersey governor Chris Christie. His thoughts on Melania's speech and what he's going to say tonight in his prime time convention speech. Much more right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)