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Trump Campaign Defends Speech; Fox News CEO To Leave; Clinton VP Choice. Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired July 20, 2016 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[09:30:16] CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me. I'm live at the Republican National Convention in Cleveland. Cleveland looks beautiful, doesn't it? It does. It is half time here at the RNC, but the controversy concerning Melania Trump's speech far from over. And Trump's campaign chairman is not letting up. He appeared on "New Day" last hour.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: The speech had portions of it that came from Michelle Obama's speech in 2008. It's as plain as day to look at them side by side. Can you acknowledge that and then move on?

PAUL MANAFORT, TRUMP CAMPAIGN CHAIRMAN: What I'm going to do, Chris, and you're right, for the final time, is to say that the speech that Melania Trump gave was a Trump -- a speech that she felt was very personal to her. It was a speech that talked about her love of a country, how she immigrated here, the opportunities that America gave to her, how she came here and it talked about meeting a man named Donald Trump, who she fell in love with and raised a family with. And she wanted to talk to the American people about, you know, those -- those personal feelings and thoughts.

The speech was very effective and it communicated those feelings. The controversy that you're talking about is not meaningful at all. She's not a candidate for office. She was expressing her personal feelings about her country and her husband and why he's best for the United States. And I agree with you, that's the final word.

CUOMO: Except, Paul, all of that can be true, except that you are denying by failing to acknowledge something that's also true, which is that some of those words came from Michelle Obama's speech in 2008. You have every kind of expert and anybody with eyes who sees that. You keep ignoring it. I don't understand why. I don't understand why you keep making this an issue.

MANAFORT: Because it's a speech that she gave talking about her feelings. She's not a candidate for office. I could get into all the reasons again. It doesn't make sense to go backwards. I think what we want to talk about today is that today the Republican Party has a nominee for president. A nominee who started a campaign about a year ago, everybody said was a long shot and then as it got -- the chances got shorter and shorter and more likely, everybody kept saying why it wouldn't happen. And then last night, you know, at 7:17, Donald Trump became the nominee of the Republican Party, defying all the conventional wisdom, and put himself in a position to become the 45th president of the United States.

That's the story. He's the candidate running for president. It's his vision that the American people are going to be talking about. And we are all excited that in the last two nights, between Melania's speech and the speeches by Don, Jr. and Tiffany Trump yesterday, that the American people are beginning to get a glimpse beyond the campaign image of Donald Trump into the real man.

We're excited about it. The convention is working as far as we're concerned. And tonight we're especially excited that Governor Pence, the -- Donald Trump's nominee for vice president, is going to get a chance to give -- come on stage and present his credentials, which we think will even further embellish the chances of our party.

CUOMO: Paul, I understand all of that. The reason that this matters, though, is that, frankly, you're distracting from that storyline by refusing to acknowledge something that's true, and it plays into two issues. The first is, a big part of the case I'm hearing here at the convention for why Donald Trump needs to be president is that Hillary Clinton can't be trusted, that she doesn't level with the American people, which is another way of saying she lies. That is what this is going on right now with this issue that should be small about this speech.

You don't like that you got caught with some of Michelle Obama's language in the speech. Who knows how it happened. You had a big group working with Melania on it. You don't want to acknowledge it because that's the way this campaign works.

That plays into the second problem, which is that when faced with something that you did wrong, you just deny it, no matter whether it's true or not. Whether it's the man who has a developmental disability who works for "The New York Times," and Donald Trump mocks him and then says, no, I didn't. Whether it's a star that represents the Star of David and you say, no, it's a sheriff's star.

There is a pattern, whether it's Baron, John Miller, that was really Donald Trump, there's a pattern of denying the obvious. What happens when you're running the government of the United States and you don't want to deal with what happens then? That's the concern. That's why I don't understand you won't just own this little thing and move on.

MANAFORT: Well, Chris -- well, Chris, I guess it's all in the eye of the beholder because the pattern that I see is a pattern of the media not being prepared to look at what's really going on in America, not look at what's really happening in the Trump campaign. Look at what really is being tapped into and looking at why it's working, not why it's failing, why it's working because, you know, over the last 10 months, as you all have been pointing out things which aren't true, to say that this is going to be a problem for the Trump campaign, you've been wrong consistently.

[09:35:07] The American people disagree with your perceptions of all the things you've just said.

CUOMO: But there's two different things.

MANAFORT: No, it isn't, it's the same thing.

CUOMO: There -- they are two different things.

MANAFORT: Because you're looking at things that don't exist. You're looking at things that don't exist and you're not focusing on the broader message that does exist in which the American people are responding to. And last night Donald Trump, contrary to everything you've said, was nominated president of the United States.

CUOMO: But -- but, Paul, that is demonstrably untrue. But that's untrue. That's untrue and I don't know where you were at the beginning of this campaign, but I would have loved to talk to you then and say, do you think Donald Trump's going to be the nominee.

MANAFORT: I'd love to do that.

CUOMO: I don't think it makes you crazy or jaundiced to have been surprised about it. And there's also no question that you deserve a lot of credit for getting him where he was last night and you know I've said that openly and often.

MANAFORT: No.

CUOMO: But I've got to -- I've got to go back to this other point, though, Paul. I just have to. The idea that we're ignoring something that doesn't matter flies in the face of what we're about. This is about the truth. It's about the truth. And that's all it's about. The language came from Michelle Obama's speech.

MANAFORT: And the truth -- and the truth -- the truth is the words that -- the truth is the feelings that were expressed by Melania Trump that night, which you don't want to focus on. It was the message that she was communicating. That's the truth. And that message reflected her -- her -- her heart.

CUOMO: Of course I want to focus on it. We say she gave a good speech. We say it was compelling. The words were the same that Michelle Obama --

MANAFORT: Well, then move on. Then move on.

CUOMO: But I can't move on because you keep lying about it, so I can't move on from it, because I have to talk about what is true.

MANAFORT: Chris, I'm not lying about anything. I'm not lying about anything, Chris.

CUOMO: Did the language -- did a portion of the language of that speech come from Michelle Obama's speech, yes or no?

MANAFORT: As far as we're concerned, there are similar words that were used. We've -- we've said that. But the feelings of those words and the commonalty of those words do not create a situation which we feel we have to agree with you. You want to have that opinion, fine. You want to talk about it for the next six months, I'm not going to be here because I've got other things I've got to talk about.

CUOMO: It's not an opinion. That's the problem.

MANAFORT: OK, well, that's an opinion and --

CUOMO: No. Hey, listen, Paul, I'm not here to beat you over the head with it. I thought you were going to come on to own something that small and move on to all these other great things that you have to discuss about what's going on at this convention.

MANAFORT: I -- I came on to talk about tonight -- I came on -- I came on to talk about what's going on in this convention and the fact that Donald Trump was nominated yesterday against all conventional wisdom to be the president of the United States. And the party is united. And as we move forward tonight, we're going to have a vice presidential nominee.

I came on to talk about things that the American people care about the excited that the party here is feeling for the convention. And I hope that you eventually can start focusing on those things too.

CUOMO: We've been talking about it -- we've been talking about it all morning long. There's no question that what you're trying to do here is working to a large degree. I'm just giving an obvious suggestion, which is, when I'm on that convention floor at night -- as you know, we're there every night -- people are saying, Hillary Clinton, I can't trust her. I think she lies. Donald Trump won't lie to us. That's what this situation goes to. And, as you know, people are wondering why the campaign handled it this way.

MANAFORT: So, go -- then move on.

CUOMO: Well, but I'm just saying, you make it impossible to move on when you won't acknowledge what we know to be true. That's all. And I don't know why you're blaming us for that. That just doesn't seem very fair.

MANAFORT: Because you've spent seven minutes talking about something that's not relevant to anybody but you in the media, not to the American people, that's why.

CUOMO: The truth is irrelevant to anybody but us?

MANAFORT: Look -- I mean, look, you can keep talking about it. The truth is, look, I'm telling you the truth. I'm not a liar, contrary to what you just said.

CUOMO: All right. No, no, no, I'm not calling you a liar. I'm talking about this one specific thing. I'm not making a character assessment.

MANAFORT: You did call me a liar.

CUOMO: That's not my place. I'm saying that you're lying about this -- the words not having come from Michelle Obama's speech because, as we both know, they did.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: OK, and they went on and on and on from there. But we were -- we were curious, how did those three passages come to be in Melania Trump's speech? Did Melania Trump write them herself? Did someone help her with that?

Maeve Reston has been looking into that and what have you -- what have you found out?

MAEVE RESTON, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER: Well, it's -- it's still -- a lot of this is still a mystery, let's just say that from the outset. But, you know, what I know from talking to sources yesterday who were familiar with, you know, the -- the speechwriting process is that Jared Kushner, who obviously is Donald Trump's son-in- law, a trusted confidant, approached Matthew Scully (ph) and John McConnell (ph), two very prominent speech writers who worked for George W. Bush in the past, in June, asking them to draft a speech for Melania. They drafted a speech. The speech that she delivered on Monday night was entirely different from the draft that they delivered. And it was really curious because there was really good feedback to the Scully speech within the campaign in June when it came back, but then there was just a kind of mysterious silence and they never heard again about -- about edits. There were, you know, five or six lines in there --

COSTELLO: So it's in Melania Trump's hands at this point and she's maybe saying, hmm, I don't like this. I'm going to change it.

RESTON: Right. It's not my voice. And, of course, that's a very common thing that happens, you know, as we know in every campaign. Certainly the candidate would want to make it her own. We know, you know, from campaign sources that she reached out to others as well for suggestions, for guidance. It's just not clear how the -- the plagiarized language ended up in this speech.

[09:40:09] And what's so interesting about this, and I think it is what Paul Manafort is not acknowledging here, is this is a much bigger illustration of the holes in the Donald Trump campaign. Over the last two weeks, they have done some things really well. Paul Manafort came in with a team of 100 lawyers, they crushed this revolt in rules committee. And -- but there are other aspects of the campaign that are just huge, gaping holes. They still don't have the communications staff to drive the message that they need. Their ground game is very much, you know, in -- being done by the RNC right now without a lot of guidance from the campaign. They say they're going to ramp that up. The finance team is still just a couple of people.

And compare that to Mitt Romney's campaign, you know, in 2012 or George W. Bush's campaign, it's just night and day. So I think what this shows is that, you know, something that is so important, this crowning moment for Melania, the fact that that speech wouldn't have been vetted by many people, you know, going through, making sure that there was no similar language, there are programs that can figure that out, it's just a mystery. And the campaign is saying, no one's being fired. And that makes it, you know, even weirder because you think you'd want a fall guy for this.

COSTELLO: I want to bring in Jason Johnson now and Tara Setmayer so that we can all talk about this because Jared Kushner, who's Trump's son-in-law, who's kind of running things right now, so he supposedly approves this speech.

So, Tara, does it seem to you that Melania Trump just went rogue?

TARA SETMAYER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I don't think so. She doesn't strike me as the type that goes rogue. You know, I worked for a Reagan speech writer, Congressman (INAUDIBLE) Bacher (ph), I was his communications director for seven years. He was a Reagan speech writer for seven years. So I looked at this whole thing in horror because I -- I know the speech writing process, especially at this level. There -- it's so carefully combed through and usually it goes through several edits. And the fact that this should have been a shining moment for the Trump campaign, they've been waiting for Melania's introduction to the world basically. This was that chance. And it was a blown opportunity because of mistakes that never should have been made. If they had a professional campaign operation, and it looks like they try to do that, but then some forces seem to come in and intervene and turn this back into the amateur operation that has been so frustrating for the professional politicos to understand.

COSTELLO: Here's -- here's -- here's the sad thing for Melania Trump. She's got to appear here again, especially on Thursday, and this whole thing has become this big, national joke.

SETMAYER: Yes.

COSTELLO: And I'll show our viewers one example of that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SETH MEYERS, LATE NIGHT TALK SHOW HOST: Melania did it. She found something less original than being a model married to an old billionaire.

JIMMY FALLON, LATE NIGHT TALK SHOW HOST: Donald Trump was like, Michelle owes Melania an apology for building a time machine and stealing her best lines, OK. That's right. But at least Donald Trump didn't steal, make America great again.

RONALD REAGAN (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: Make America great again.

FALLON: Whatever. What's the -- hey, what's your problem? What's the big deal?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: So, Jason, you see where I'm going here. Poor Melania Trump now has to appear Thursday, and I'm sorry, that has to weigh on her mind. She's a human being.

JASON JOHNSON, POLITICS EDITOR, THEROOT.COM: Yes. And I -- I actually feel really bad for Melania Trump because the way this campaign has responded to it, deny, deny, this is at like sort of Taylor Swift, Kanye level. We're like, no, no, no, this didn't happen. See, we have receipts, right? We have the speech from 2008. We know that you sort of lazily didn't use spell check. I mean I would have failed a student who handed something in like this that was so plagiarized.

And the problem is, it is put on her shoulders, and all she wanted to do is talk about the man she loves. And I think that the Trump campaign should be embarrassed to put their potential first lady in this kind of position to defend their own disorganization.

RESTON: And I will say that some sources, you know, said very explicitly to me when talking about how this all came together that Melania was the victim here. We don't know what happened inside, but, you know, there's -- that's what some people are saying.

SETMAYER: Well, there were multiple -- the problem again here is that the -- it's the cover-up that's worse than the crime.

JOHNSON: Right.

SETMAYER: I mean, as a crisis, they have no crisis communication skills whatsoever in this campaign. They go out, like what Paul Manafort has done for the last two days, in embarrassing fashion, insulting the intelligence of the American people as if -- you could see the frustration in Chris Cuomo's interview there because it's like, we're all crazy and they're not and they've done this time after time. You know, speech writers are the custodians of the messaging for candidates and their surrogates, and so the fact that they didn't even recognize the importance of something like that and being -- and just being consistent with the response, they gave multiple responses for what happened, which (INAUDIBLE) problem to it.

COSTELLO: Well, the other -- the other factor here, too, Donald Trump doesn't have the support of many African-Americans, right?

JOHNSON: Right.

COSTELLO: When you look out into the audience of the Republican National Convention, it's a mostly white audience. Most of the speakers are white, right? So Melania Trump lifted passages from an African-American woman's speech. And that resonates in the African- American community, doesn't it?

[09:45:08] JOHNSON: I mean, if that's the fantasy that they want to live under. Look, here's the thing. Trump here -- and I'm an Ohio voter -- Trump is at 0 percent for African-Americans in Ohio. That means that like Pastor Darrell Scott, who's a surrogate, apparently isn't even voting for him in the polls, right? So that's what we're looking at right now. Lifting a speech from Michelle Obama, I don't care if he knocks dirt off his shoulder like Barack Obama and changes his name and puts on a dashiki (ph), he's not going to magically resonate with African-American voters if Donald Trump doesn't come up with some policy that's appealing. Paul Ryan can. Mitt Romney could. You could start by talking to the NAACP, but Trump seems to be tired (ph) --

SETMAYER: Which they did. Romney did that.

JOHNSON: Well, yes, exactly. Romney did that. Other -- other presidents have.

SETMAYER: (INAUDIBLE).

JOHNSON: You know, for some reason, Trump seems to want to ignore every single piece of common sense, campaign advice that anyone's ever used before.

COSTELLO: But --

SETMAYER: (INAUDIBLE).

COSTELLO: But if the Trump campaign would say, yes, Melania Trump admires Michelle Obama --

SETMAYER: That was my suggestion. I said that yesterday on the show. They could have easily killed this story --

JOHNSON: Right.

SETMAYER: And said, OK, whoever written -- they know who wrote this speech and who approved it, but they could have said, OK, you know what, we admire Michelle Obama. Despite our policy differences, the story of the Obamas is part of the American dream and I can relate to that as an immigrant who came here and embraced America and I felt inspired by her words, dot, dot, dot. You know, that's what they should have done and it would have been over with. But, no, here we are, almost three days now later, still talking about this. And that shouldn't be. But, unfortunately, it's indicative of the constant missteps of this -- of this campaign. It reminds people of, you know, the campaign is a microcosm of how someone would govern.

JOHNSON: Right.

SETMAYER: And this is, you know, a problem. Whether the Trumps can get over this, and they can -- all the pomp and circumstance and the cosmetic kind of, you know, aspect that they're trying to put forward to overshadow it, it remains to be seen, but I don't know if people (INAUDIBLE) look at this (INAUDIBLE).

RESTON: And I think that they can. Certainly they can. Certainly. You know, we have Ivanka Trump, who's going to introduce her father later this week. What a lot of people are worried about is that the cloud over this speech has really potentially hurt him with those women he was trying to reach, who he is struggling within in the polls. They have an opportunity here to move past this, over the next couple of days, but we'll have to see how that goes.

COSTELLO: Yes, we will. Maeve Reston, Jason Johnson, Tara Setmayer, thanks to all of you.

JOHNSON: Thank you.

COSTELLO: Still to come in the NEWSROOM, a major shake-up coming to Fox News. The bombshell report, next.

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[09:51:34] COSTELLO: Do you feel the earth shaking? The top boss at Fox News could soon be on his way out. CEO Roger Ailes is in talks to leave the network after damning allegations of sexual harassment from his staff reported, including his prime time anchor, and you know her, Gretchen Carlson.

Joining me now, senior media correspondent Brian Stelter.

There were so many conflicting reports yesterday about this. So what's the deal?

BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Yes. He has not left yet. Roger Ailes is still in charge of Fox today, but not for much longer. The Murdochs, who own 21st Fox, have decided that Ailes must leave, which is a staggering development and quite an end for his career at Fox. He built Fox News 20 years ago from nothing into this conservative cable news powerhouse. But amid these allegations of sexual harassment by Gretchen Carlson, by other women, and possibly even by Megyn Kelly, and he is on the way out, I would argue this is almost as significant a development as Donald Trump's nomination here in Cleveland because for the GOP, for the Republican Party, Roger Ailes has been a king maker. At time he's even given advice to Republican presidents and would-be president. He's on the phone with Donald Trump all the time. So the consequences of this, although we don't know exactly what they will be, could be far-reaching.

COSTELLO: Actually, I was going to say, it's -- it's amazing because usually women who accuse powerful men of sexual harassment don't come out the victors.

STELTER: And I think we --

COSTELLO: And Gretchen Carlson should very much come out the victor if Roger Ailes leaves.

STELTER: Yes, as much as this --

COSTELLO: You don't know how unusual that really is, because, right, Bill O'Reilly was accused himself. Usually they pay the woman off and she goes away and never -- is never heard from again. But this didn't happen.

STELTER: But that's where the focus should say is on these accusers, on this lawsuit by Gretchen Carlson and on the other women who say they were victims, in some cases, many years ago, of Roger Ailes. There's a lot of buzz in the industry about what this means for Fox News, the future of Fox. Are stars from Fox going to leave? What's going to happen to the network? But I agree with you, it's unusual to have this happen and it may encourage in the future other women in other workplaces to feel more confident speaking up in these situations.

COSTELLO: Brian Stelter, thank you so much. STELTER: Thanks.

COSTELLO: Still to come in the NEWSROOM, decision, decisions. Hillary Clinton will soon pick her running mate. Her likely two top contenders, next.

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[09:58:02] COSTELLO: We are now just days away from knowing who Hillary Clinton's running mate will be. And right now there are two VP names flying high above the rest. With me now, CNN's senior Washington correspondent Joe Johns.

Tell us more, Joe.

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Carol, two at the top of the list, but the campaign making sure to say this election process is not over or at least that if Mrs. Clinton has made her decision, she hasn't disclosed it. And now with the Democratic Convention looming, we're taking a closer look at the travels and statements of people who have been mentioned as potential running mates.

Multiple sources have told me and my colleagues at CNN that Virginia Senator Tim Kaine is right up at the top of the list. Today, Kaine making a public appearance at a business roundtable in his home state of Virginia. Potentially a good choice because he comes from a critical battleground state. A member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, which means he has foreign policy experience. And he's been vetted at the highest levels already.

The other Democrat, we are told, at the top of Hillary Clinton's list is Agriculture Secretary and former Iowa Governor Tom Vilsack. Today, he's expected to be here in Washington at a White House summit on global development. Vilsack has a close relationship with Hillary Clinton that goes back year and years. He's coming from Iowa. The hope would be that he could help the campaign connect with small town voters, especially white men, which is a demographic the Clinton campaign needs to work on according to exit polls.

Other names mentioned include Labor Secretary Tom Perez, Massachusetts Senator Elizabeth Warren, and Ohio Senator Sherrod Brown. The campaign tells CNN they have not been ruled out.

Carol.

COSTELLO: So have not been ruled out. So, progressives, you know, or those who support Bernie Sanders, might be a little disappointed that Elizabeth Warren's name isn't at the top of the list.

JOHNS: Yes, definitely potential for that. And Sherrod Brown could help too. The problem is, if he leaves the Senate, they're in a situation where the Republican governor of Ohio would appoint a Republican senator. So the Democrats in the Senate would lose a vote, and that's concerning to the entire party.

[10:00:04] COSTELLO: Oh, politics. Joe Johns reporting live for us this morning. Thank you.

The next hour of CNN NEWSROOM starts now.

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