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More Than 9,300 Detained in Government Purge; Donald Trump Finally Nominated; Melania Trump's Speech Under Scrutiny; India Gang Rape Outrage; Fox News CEO Roger Ailes in Talks to Depart; Queen Upset with RNC's Use of Their Song. Aired 1-2a ET

Aired July 20, 2016 - 01:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[01:00:12] ISHA SESAY, CNN ANCHOR: This is CNN NEWSROOM live from Los Angeles. Ahead this hour, Turkey's coup crackdown. The army, judges and academia all being targeted by the Erdogan government.

Donald Trump officially secures the Republican presidential nomination, while his children take center stage at the party's convention.

And the powerful CEO at FOX News reportedly on the way out after one of the network's biggest stars says Roger Ailes sexually harassed her, too.

Hello, and welcome to our viewers all around the world. I'm Isha Sesay. NEWSROOM L.A. starts right now.

Turkey's government has detained more than 9300 people since a failed military coup over the weekend. Thousands more have been suspended or dismissed. Turkish president Recep Tayyip Erdogan blames cleric Fethullah Gulen for the attempted coup and has now formally requested his extradition from the U.S.

The Muslim cleric denies any involvement and says Erdogan will go to any length to persecute his critics. At least 232 people were killed in the failed coup.

Well, CNN international diplomatic editor Nic Robertson joins me now from Ankara, Turkey.

And Nic, I understand you were taken on a tour of government institutions targeted by the coup plotters. What did you see?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes, Isha, what the government here is frustrated with, they say, is there's a lot of attention been focused internationally from European leaders, from others on the plight, if you will, of the people that have been detained. But they say what about the victims? They say democracy came under attack. And that's what they wanted to do.

They wanted to show us how much their institutions came under attack. So we were taken to the parliament building where the cleanup was under way. Three bombs, they said, hit that building. 14 police officers were injured. Two of them remain in critical condition.

You can see some large bomb craters. Big chunks blown out of the parliament building. We went from there to the police headquarters, the main police headquarters in Ankara. Again, a similar situation. The office -- the offices there shredded by a bomb blast that hit a cafe right outside. We're told that was, again, another F-16 bomb dropped by the coup plotters. And then we went to a special forces barracks on the outskirts of Ankara. And here you could see two large sort of craters, if you will, in the roof of the building. And immediately under the roof you could see the wall was blown out and there were beds of the barracks, the special forces soldiers, those beds were exposed to -- because the wall had come down, exposed to the outside.

So you can see there quite the possibility of how so many people died. And we were told 47 special forces soldiers died there. There was a lot of sort of high emotion and high anger. Frustration that the international community doesn't get what the government here sees, if you will. But also in terms of sort of feelings toward the coup plotters. The secretary-general of the parliament told us he thought the coup plotters should commit suicide. He said they should have honor, They tried to kill us, they failed, they should be like the Japanese and take their own lives.

A lot of anger around here still -- Isha.

SESAY: Yes. Indeed. And the Turkish government has now formally requested the extradition of that Muslim cleric from the U.S. Do we know whether that request includes actual evidence to support government's claim of his involvement in last Friday's coup attempt?

ROBERTSON: Well, the U.S. ambassador here has said that the United States is willing to help turkish officials with the investigation. They've said that the Justice Department in the United States will work with opposite numbers here -- you know, here in ankara to work with them to set the level, set the threshold, get the evidence, get the information that's required to meet threshold for extraditions.

I asked the deputy prime minister that question here yesterday. I said, OK, specifically what can the U.S. do for you? You know, they've offered to help you with the investigation. What can they do? And they said quite simply send Fethullah Gulen back to Turkey. And I said, OK, what evidence have you presented to the United States to support that claim? And they said it's very simple. Look, the coup happened. That's evidence enough. They said look, we've got thousands of people in detention, it's going to take time.

But they said we plan to have hundreds and thousands of documents to present to the United States to support this extradition. Nothing concrete yet, however -- Isha.

[01:05:01] SESAY: We shall see what emerges in the days ahead.

Nic Robertson joining us there from Ankara. Always appreciate it. Thank you so much. Well, we are joined now by Gayle Tzemach Lemmon, a senior fellow at

the Council on Foreign Relations and also the author of "Ashley's War: The Untold Story of a Team of Women Soldiers on the Special Ops Battlefield."

Gayle, it's always good to have you with us. The Turkey -- Turkish government's actions in the aftermath of this failed coup are quite remarkable and frightening to many, raising serious concerns among groups like Human Rights Watch about what is taking place and really questioning the motives of what has taken place.

I want to put up for our viewers some of what Human Rights Watch has said most recently. They said this. They said, "While the government has the complete right to hold, to account those involved in the coup the speed and scale of the arrests including of top judges suggests a purge rather than a process based on any evidence. Turkey's citizens who took to the streets to defend democracy deserve a response that upholds the rule of law and protects media freedom."

Are we, Gayle, witnessing President Erdogan exploiting this failed coup? Are we witnessing an attempt to put down enemies real or imagined and ultimately him gaining more powers as president? What's happening?

GAYLE TZEMACH LEMMON, SENIOR FELLOW, COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS: Well, it's interesting. It depends on where you're sitting. Right? Because, as Nic was saying, from their perspective what they're doing is, you know, trying to get to the source of the coup. And, you know, when you talk to turkish officials, from the outside world, particularly civil society, Human Rights Watch, there is a concern that names on that list might have been put together well before any coup.

And what you saw a lot on social media was this fear that either the coup succeeded or the coup failed on Friday. Right? That either way it was going to be negative for civil society. For those who oppose the Erdogans' rule, for those who are really worried about institution that's are already weak being further weakened.

SESAY: Speaking of institutions being weakened, the military. Let's talk about that specifically, which has long been independent in Turkey. Is that over? Has that chapter ended now with what happened last Friday? Do they now exist purely at the beck and call of Erdogan and his full control?

LEMMON: We'll see stay tuned. I mean, whether we'll see whether there's talk about a constitutional change that would in some ways bring the military to heel right under civilian rule. And we'll see whether that happens or not. I think a lot of people, particularly diplomats, are watching to see what happens next with the push to change Turkey's constitution and how far that goes.

SESAY: And this cleric, all eyes on this cleric, Fethullah Gulen. Turkey's -- you know, really they haven't pulled punches and they've been quite definite in their -- at least the president has, in his belief that he's responsible for what happened last Friday. I mean, as you look at and knowing what you know of this individual, does he have the capabilities to pull off something like what happened last Friday? I mean, put it in context, how credible does this sound to you?

LEMMON: Well, it's interesting. Some diplomats, U.S. diplomats who served in Turkey, will say, you know, actually it's not impossible. But the truth is there is no way that you can really imagine the United States saying that the coup itself was enough evidence to extradite a gentleman who's living in the Poconos. Right? I mean, that is going to be a real issue. And the other part of this to watch is what happens with the U.S. air base which four days on still does not have outside power.

SESAY: Yes.

LEMMON: Right? It's using internal generator power to keep the base up and running. And they fight against ISIS is actually using that Incirlik Air Base. So will this -- will those two conversations be joined? I think many U.S. officials hope not. But let's see what happens.

SESAY: Gayle, always appreciate it.

LEMMON: Great to see you.

SESAY: Thank you so much. Thank you for the analysis.

The Republican Party has officially nominated Donald Trump for president of the United States.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CROWD: We want Trump. We want Trump. We want Trump. We want Trump.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SESAY: Celebrations broke out on the convention floor during the roll call of state delegations. "Make America Work Again" was the official theme of day two but it was all about the nomination. Trump's oldest son announced the New York delegation's votes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP JR., DONALD TRUMP'S SON: And it is my honor to be able to throw Donald Trump over the top in the delegate count tonight with 89 delegates and another six for John Kasich.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SESAY: He later spoke to the convention in primetime.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: A president who speaks his mind and not just when it behooves him to do so. Who doesn't have to run a focus group or use data analytics to be able to form a simple opinion. Who says what needs to be said and not just what you want to hear.

A president who will unleash the greatness in our nation and in all of us, who will give the hard-working men and women who built this great country a voice once again.

[01:10:06] That president can only be my mentor, my best friend, my father, Donald Trump.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SESAY: Well, let's bring in CNN Politics reporter Tal Kopan. She is live from Cleveland for us.

Tal, good to have you with us. Donald Trump Jr. there speaking a little earlier. And before him we saw his sister Tiffany take the stage. The mission for both of them was obviously to humanize their father. But they both took very different approaches.

TAL KOPAN, CNN POLITICS REPORTER: Yes. That's right. You know, Tiffany Trump has sort of been a little bit shy in this campaign. You know, we've seen a lot of the eldest three Trump children, of course, Eric, Ivanka and Donald Jr. who we saw tonight. Tiffany, who's a little bit younger, actually just graduated college. She hasn't really stepped into the spotlight fully on her own quite as much as the other three.

She was a little bit more subdued. She actually mentioned several times how new this was to her to address, you know, a convention hall full of thousands of people. And you know, she spoke about the sort of softer side of Donald Trump, the senior Donald Trump.

Donald Trump Jr., on the other hand, you almost might have thought he was a politician the way he really brought up the crowd tonight. He really moved through a range of policy topics. You know, I saw one tweet that this might have been the most policy-heavy speech of anyone to give at the convention so far. He still talked about his father as a family man. But he talked about everything from, you know, benghazi and Hillary Clinton, to the economy, to his father's business record.

Really moving through each topic skillfully. He really had a very successful speech in that regard here tonight.

SESAY: Yes. Agreed. Among the night's most anticipated speeches was New Jersey Governor Chris Christie. He launched a blistering attack on Hillary Clinton. Let's play a clip for our viewers.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), NEW JERSEY: As to Hillary Clinton lying to the American people about her selfish, awful judgment in making our secrets vulnerable, what's your verdict, guilty or not guilty?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SESAY: We heard that call over and over again, guilty or not guilty. And, Tal, before you even get to the analysis of it, Hillary Clinton

was quick to respond with a tweet that we want to share. She said, "If you think Chris Christie can lecture anyone on ethics, we have a bridge to sell you." All very, very personal and really foreshadowing how nasty this campaign really is going to be.

KOPAN: Absolutely. You know, it was really something to be in the convention hall tonight and hear the entire arena which, you know, there are 2500 delegates alone here and then, you know, more in the -- in the audience. To hear them chanting, "lock her up, lock her up," it really was astounding. And I cannot in my memory think of another example where you had something like that happening with the other party's presumptive nominee.

And, you know, the tweet you put up from Hillary Clinton of course a reference to bridgegate, the scandal in New Jersey that Chris Christie, his administration has been involved in, although he has never been directly connected to it, of shutting down a bridge as political punishment.

It's really remarkable. You know, the Clinton campaign had that tweet ready to go. They knew that Chris Christie was going to come after her. In fact, before he was passed over as the vice presidential nominee, Donald Trump referred to Chris Christie as, you know, an attack dog. The Clinton campaign showed no fear after that rousing speech with the chanting. They had that tweet ready to go.

You know, this is a play not for the people who are in this arena. This is a play for the people who are watching at home and definitely it's an indication that the mudslinging is going to be tough this election year.

SESAY: Yes, it's going to be ugly. A race to the bottom, as John Vause likes to say.

Tal Kopan, appreciate it. Thank you so much.

Well, Donald Trump's crowning night was somewhat overshadowed by his wife Melania's speech from Monday. Trump's camp denies it was plagiarized from First Lady Michelle Obama and says there are no plans to fire anyone or take any disciplinary action.

Here is a side-by-side comparison of the two speeches.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MELANIE TRUMP, DONALD TRUMP'S SPEECH: Because we want our children in this nation to know --

MICHELLE OBAMA, FIRST LADY OF THE UNITED STATES: Because we want our children and all children in this nation to know --

M. TRUMP: That the only limit to your achievements --

OBAMA: That the only limit to the height of your achievements.

M. TRUMP: Is the strength of your dreams.

OBAMA: Is the reach of your dreams.

M. TRUMP: And your willingness to work for them.

OBAMA: And your willingness to work hard for them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SESAY: Well, the controversy has been dominating the headlines. Here's Tuesday's cover of the "New York Daily News." And it's all over the Internet as well. Leading to several --

(LAUGHTER)

SESAY: Leading to several viral memes. The man who broke this story was sitting at a Starbucks right here in Los Angeles when he noticed the similarities between the speeches.

[01:15:05] I'm thrilled to say journalist Jared Hill joins me now.

Jared, welcome.

JARED HILL, JOURNALIST: Yes. Thank you for having me.

SESAY: What was it that first struck you as you were watching the speech?

HILL: The way that I've been able to best explain it for people is, you know how you haven't heard a song in a long time and then it comes on and like immediately the lyrics come back to you? It was that. So I was sitting there at the Starbucks. I'm streaming the -- I have Facebook and I'm streaming the feed, and I hear her say, you know, the height of your achievement is the reach of your dreams. And I said aloud, "And your willingness to work for them."

SESAY: So you finished the line.

HILL: Yes. And I was like, that's weird.

SESAY: Yes, unless I'm psychic.

HILL: That's weird. Yes. And then I realized, and I immediately thought that's Michelle Obama. Like I remembered that moment from the speech. I didn't remember all of the speech. It wasn't like I knew point for point. But I remembered that moment and I Googled her 2008 speech. And I eventually realized it was actually a lot more than just that one little bit that I remembered.

SESAY: So -- I want to put up some of your tweets.

HILL: Sure.

SESAY: Right? And in the first you say, "oh, my god." And then you --

HILL: It was more of a, "oh, my god."

SESAY: OK.

HILL: Yes.

SESAY: So I need you to give me the --

HILL: There you go. There you go. That's OK.

SESAY: Oh, my god. Then you follow up with, "This is becoming a thing."

HILL: Yes. This is when the big tweets started like really blowing up and like tons of re-tweeting. This is becoming a thing.

SESAY: Followed by, "Melania must have liked Michelle Obama," in fact, you read it. Read -- you said Melania must have liked Michelle Obama's 2008 convention speech since she plagiarized it. But say it in your own voice.

HILL: It was, Melania must have liked Michelle Obama's 2008 convention speech because she plagiarized it. Yes. I mean, I've been comfortable using the word plagiarized because I feel like were this I, as a student in a classroom and I think they said it was 22 of 29 words matched, my teacher would probably call that plagiarism.

SESAY: I think that's a fair point.

HILL: If I were a scientist or, you know, whatever it is, like someone would have called that plagiarism if I did that. I'll let the American people decide what they want to call it. But I mean, you know, spade.

SESAY: How surprised are you of the countless headlines, the memes and the hashtags, and the media frenzy? I mean, did it catch you off guard, by surprise?

HILL: I'm sorry, are you kidding? Yes. Like I -- when it happened, I thought, wow, this is kind of crazy. And then once I saw it was way more than just that one line, I had a really strong feeling I think this is a story. Like I don't think this is just like kind of a fluke. And so once the bigger tweet with the bigger statement went out that, you know, I'm pretty sure she plagiarized all of this, it was like a dozen tweet -- a dozen re-tweets, and I was like, oh, a dozen re-tweets. You know? And it was like -- it was a couple dozen and it was 100. I was like -- you know, my head was like, whoa, I can't imagine that. It's like 23,000 right now.

SESAY: And to the GOP, the Republicans that say it's much ado about nothing and it's the liberal media trying to make this into a story, you say what?

HILL: OK. Sure. You know, I mean, if Michelle Obama had done this, they would have had her like they had Hillary Clinton today, like guilty, you know, that whole back and forth. And they would have said to her speechwriter, you had one job, write a whole speech, and -- I mean, they didn't do that very well obviously. So it's frustrating and disappointing. I always think of Judge Judy who has a book that says, "Don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining."

Like I can see what just happened here. Don't tell me that it wasn't what it was. You know? So that's what's frustrating. It's like we're all looking at the same thing here and you're like oh, no, it wasn't what that was, look over here. Like a squirrel. Come on.

SESAY: Did you just say squirrel?

HILL: Squirrel. Yes. It's like look over here. Something shiny. So.

(LAUGHTER)

SESAY: Jared Hill, such a pleasure. Thank you for coming in and just kind of giving us the backstory because I know it's been a crazy couple of hours for you.

HILL: It has been a very crazy 26 hours with about 80 minutes of sleep. So.

SESAY: Keep on going.

(LAUGHTER)

HILL: For sure.

SESAY: Appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you.

Time for a quick break now. She survived a brutal rape three years ago. Now police say this young woman was just raped again by the same men. We'll go live to New Delhi for her story coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(SPORTS HEADLINES)

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[01:23:09] SESAY: Outrage in india after a college student who was raped three years ago says she was gang raped again last week by at least two of the same men. The men were out on bail. Authorities say they've arrested three of the five alleged suspects. Sumnima udas is in northern india with more.

Sumnima, the question on most people's minds is how on earth could this have happened to this woman again?

SUMNIMA UDAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's incredibly shocking, Isha, but in many ways it's not surprising at all because we're talking about a Dalit woman, which is the lowest caste in india, raped by upper caste men in the state of Hariana which is widely considered one of the most patriarchal, most conservative and many would say one of the most backwards states in the country. This is a state where some 37,000 girls are killed even before they

are born just because they're girls or they would be girls because they're seen as a burden. This is a state where if a girl is born then she's raised very differently in most families than their brothers. They're given different food, they're given a different type of education, they're literally just raised to be married off at a very young age.

Now this is a girl, she's inside in a room over there, inside the hospital. You can see the heavy security here. But she defied all the norms here and all the stereotypes here. She made it to school and then to college. Her father is a manual laborer. Her mother is a tailor. She was the one who was supposed to lift the entire family out of poverty. And now she's inside there fighting this lonely battle.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UDAS (voice-over): Behind these heavily guarded doors, a 21-year-old college student fights for justice. Police say she was raped by two men in 2013 and then allegedly gang raped by those same exact men plus three others last week when the suspects were out on bail.

[01:25:07] "It's like a movie. How can this even be real? How can rapists be out on bail and rape again," her cousin says.

The victim was forced into a car last Wednesday, drugged, gang raped, and then left to die in a field. The victim says she was attacked by all five men both times.

"They were the same five men. They were in the car. I saw them and got scared. They forced me into the car, and then they strangled me," she says.

Her parents are daily wage laborers counting on their educated daughter to help lift the family out of poverty.

(On camera): Your whole family had a lot of hopes riding on her. She's the only one who was able to go to school from your family. What were her dreams? What were her aspirations?

(Voice-over): "She wanted to be a government officer or professor and fight for women's rights. She wanted to change the status of women in this country," he says.

(On camera): Do you have any faith in the authorities right now?

(Voice-over): "No one supports the weak. There has been no change for the poor and lower castes. Dalit girls are treated as pastime, like a piece of tissue paper," he says.

The victim is from a low caste Dalit family in india. The alleged rapists upper caste. The family says the attackers pressured them to withdraw the case.

"They threatened us. They offered us a lot of money. They thought we would be lured by money. But we didn't compromise. We just wanted justice," he says.

This is just the latest in a series of shocking rapes that have unleashed outrage in india.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

UDAS: Now it's important to remember that india has some of the strongest anti-rape laws in the country but still the judicial process is such that it takes such a long time and according to at least the family members here of the victim people can be paid off and the system just works against especially if you are from the lowest castes here now.

The girl is recovering inside. The officials here tell us that she is in a state where she can talk to people but she's in a complete state of shock -- Isha.

SESAY: There are no words to adequately sum up just how awful this is.

Sumnima Udas joining us there from Rohtak, northern india. Appreciate it. Thank you.

Next on NEWSROOM L.A., he helped build FOX News, and now chairman Roger Ailes could be out of a job because of a former anchor's sexual harassment suit. Do stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[01:31:04] SESAY: You are watching CNN NEWSROOM live from Los Angeles. I'm Isha Sesay.

The headlines this hour, Turkey has formally asked the U.S. to extradite a Muslim Cleric whom the president blames for a failed military coup over the weekend. The cleric denies any involvement. The government has detained more than 9,300 people since the attempted coup. Thousands more have been suspended or dismissed.

Theresa May is taking her first overseas trip Wednesday as Britain's new prime minister. She plans to meet with German Chancellor Angela Merkel and French president Francois Hollande. Mrs. May says it's an opportunity to form a strong working relationship across the European Union as the U.K. prepares to exit.

ISIS is claiming responsibility for Monday's attack on a train in Germany. A 17-year-old from Afghanistan attacked passengers with a knife and an ax, wounding five people. Police killed him after he fled the train. Investigators are looking into the ISIS claim. They say a hand-drawn ISIS flag was found in the teen's apartment.

Well, Fox News CEO Roger Ailes is in talks with 21st Century Fox that will likely lead to his departure. Several of his long-time employees say he will probably leave the network within days. Ending a 20-year career at the cable news channel he created. Former Anchor Gretchen Carlson is suing him for sexual harassment. Ailes denies that charge as well as accusations he harassed other Fox employees, including current Anchor Megyn Kelly. 21st Century Fox says no exit agreement has been reached and that an internal review is ongoing.

Darren Kavinoky is an attorney with the Kavinoky Law Firm and the host of "Deadly Sins" on Investigation Discovery. And Ashley Cullins is with the Hollywood Reporter. They join me now here in the Studio in L.A.

And Ashley, to start with you, you have been digging all day on this story. What are you hearing about this reported impending exit of Roger Ailes?

ASHLEY CULLINS, STAFF REPORTER, THE HOLLYWOOD REPORTER: It seems like somebody leaked an early version of a term sheet establishing that Roger Ailes would leave the company for about $40 million, his last day would be this Friday.

SESAY: As soon as this Friday?

CULLINS: Yes. So, but the answers we've been getting since then are, oh, no, no, no, no. It's still all being worked out, they're in negotiations. His attorney has admitted that they are in negotiations figuring out his exit. But they don't know that could result in him taking on some kind of a consultant position was in the company as well.

SESAY: So not necessarily that he's exiting Fox News completely.

CULLINS: He could still stick around. You'll never -- I mean, it's hard to tell at this point. There's a lot very much still up in the air.

SESAY: I've got to ask you about the Megyn Kelly reporting because as I say, you have been digging into this all day. New York magazine reporting that Megyn Kelly told investigators that she too was sexually harassed by Ailes some years ago, that she made those allegations.

Have you been able to stand that up? What are you hearing from your investigating?

CULLINS: We haven't heard anything directly from Megyn Kelly. Gabe Sherman has been all over this from the start. So a lot of people are hearing on background that this maybe did happen a decade ago. But it raises more questions than on answers. Why didn't she chime in on this earlier? Why if she's talking to investigators now, didn't she talk to investigators ten years ago?

And she's just a little bit busy with the Republican National Convention right now. So she hasn't publicly weighed in on any of this either.

SESAY: OK. I need to bring in Darren, he's champing at the bit.

DARREN KAVINOKY, ATTORNEY, THE KAVINOKY LAW FIRM: Yeah. Well, I am. I mean, those are all fair questions and those are the kinds of questions that you'd expect a defense lawyer to be asking, if this woman, Megyn Kelly or other women coming forward who claimed harassment, which by the way is just a conclusion.

And look, I have to say Roger Ailes may be, you know, Lucifer personified, but at the end of the day it seems like a rush to judgment if we don't know exactly what the facts are.

SESAY: And how common place is it for companies to make a move such as terminating a deal or arranging an exit before the investigation is complete?

[01:35:05] KAVINOKY: Well, I think we need to distinguish between two separate things that are going on. Number one, there's the company's obligation to its shareholders.

And number two, there is the legal system, both the civil side where people are fighting about money, or the criminal side where somebody can face all kinds of criminal charges and then time spent in jail and so forth.

SESAY: Our viewers at home would be saying to themselves, well, if they're getting him out well, that means he must have done something wrong. But that does that necessarily follow on does that indicate wrongdoing or illegal behavior?

KAVINOKY: No. Well, I would say no. And I would venture to guess, and I'd love to hear your opinion on this too, about whether or not this term sheet that's sort of floating around would include certain provisions that would speak to exactly that.

CULLINS: Executives at this level have all sorts of end-game scenarios negotiated into their contracts surrounding termination with cause and termination without cause. So if the investigators conclude that there was wrongdoing that would lead potentially to a termination with cause under which scenario, Ailes may get nothing.

KAVINOKY: Well, under an agreement it could be that the parties would agree that there would be no admission made by Ailes. And I would assume that such an agreement would be part of -- or such a provision would be part of any such agreement. If I were counseling Ailes, I would say look, man, you don't want to be making admissions here that they can use against you in some other form.

SESAY: What does this mean for the Gretchen Carlson case?

KAVINOKY: Well, right now Gretchen Carlson's case is filed in state court in the city of New York.

And so what we're really going to have to see is whether Megyn Carlson's allegations, I mean, at this point we don't really know what they are.

So to the effect that there may be any criminal allegations that are still within the statute, then that could subject Ailes to criminal exposure. And then of course more likely is that there could be either Megyn Kelly's own independent civil claim or else she's a witness in support of Gretchen Carlson. But I think the fair questions are the ones that were asked earlier tonight, which are basically, how come you weren't talking about this 10 years ago? And how come you have never made any kind of a claim?

SESAY: And very quickly Ashley, what's the mood in Fox News right now? What are you hearing about what's happening down those hallways and in those rooms?

CULLINS: They are still figuring it out. And nobody's quite ready to talk about it yet. And the big thing that I feel like is still looming over all of this is these investigators aren't done. If they find out that the company knew this was going on, Gretchen Carlson could add them to her lawsuit.

KAVINOKY: Right. Well I know I was like to say that the right to remain silent only does you any good if you choose to exercise it. So it would be no surprise that a company would keep its mouth shut.

SESAY: Interesting. I'm so pleased that I have both of you here to help make sense of it for our home viewers. It's a murky business. I think we can fairly say that and you'll be back next hour to Carry on the conversation I hope ...

KAVINOKY: Sure.

CULLINS: Yep.

SESAY: ... in tonight. Thank you. Thank you.

Now, time for a quick break, members of a popular rock band have a strong message for Donald Trump. Stop using our music, details straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[01:40:25] SESAY: Members of the rock band Queen are frustrated with Donald Trump for using one of their popular songs without permission at the Republican National Convention. CNN's Jake Tapper reports.

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JAKE TAPPER, CNN CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: The undeniable authors of Donald Trump's message so far this week, the rock group Queen, "We are the Champions" captivating the convention as Trump took the stage Monday night.

For those inspiring lyrics and rocking tune, that was that was played without permission, the band says "An unauthorized use at the Republican Convention against our wishes," Queen tweeted. Just the latest clash at the crossroads of politics and rock and no city knows it better than this one.

Here in Cleveland at the rock and roll hall of fame there's a whole exhibit about the intersection of rock and politics, with many exhibits detailing tense moments such as these. Here's the outfit that Bruce Springsteen wore on the cover of "Born in the USA". Here's the notebook where he wrote down the lyrics.

Ronald Reagan used the song "Born in the USA" in 1984 for his re- election campaign until Springsteen suggested maybe he should listen to the lyrics. Reagan thought the song was about a bright American future.

RONALD REAGAN, 40TH U.S. PRESIDENT: The address on the message of hope in songs of a man so many young Americans admire, New Jersey's own Bruce Springsteen.

TAPPER: Springsteen actually penned the tune about the dark side of the American story and the harsh treatment of Vietnam veterans.

Rock and roll hall of fame President Greg Harris says, musical mix-ups are a bigger problem for modern campaigns.

GREG HARRIS, PRESIDENT AND CEO, THE ROCK AND ROLL HALL OF FAME: Years ago they actually had songwriters write the campaign songs sort of co- opting popular songs with something that's only happened in the last couple decades.

TAPPER: The presumptive Republican presidential nominee has an eclectic playlist at his rallies, one that includes Jock Jams, Opera, and until recently Twisted Sister.

This is a t-shirt and a jean jacket worn by Twisted Sister front man, Dee Snider, whose conflicts with politicians date back to 1985, when he was hauled before the senate to testify against warning labels on record albums. He most recently had to make a phone call to his friend Donald Trump.

DEE SNIDER, LEAD SINGER, TWISTED SISTER: I said, man, you've got to stop using the song. People think I'm endorsing you here. I can't get behind a lot of what you're saying. He said, "Dee, fair enough."

TAPPER: But you can't always get what you want. The Rolling Stones told Donald Trump to stop using their songs. Still their hits keep on coming.

TAPPER: When he introduced his running mate Mike Pence, who was reputed to be not his first choice necessarily, the Rolling Stones "You Can't Always Get What You Want" was playing.

HARRIS: It sounds like he needs a better music editor. And somebody has to read the lyrics.

TAPPER: Then again, taking a risk and riling up a crowd, that's why exhibits like this exist.

HARRIS: Being at odds with the status quo, that's what rock and roll's all about.

TAPPER: Jake Tapper, CNN, Cleveland, Ohio.

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