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Trump Staffer Takes Blame For Plagiarized Speech; Pence, Cruz To Speak On Day Three Of Convention; Turkey Purges Around 57,000 After Coup Attempt; Theresa May Meets Angela Merkel In Berlin; Groups: 100 Plus Civilians Dead In Coalition Syria Strikes; Officials: Journalist "Assassinated" In Kiev Car Bombing; Russia Names Team For Rio Olympics; Trump Becomes Official Republican Nominee For President; Lewandowski Americans Are Ready For A Leader; A Tale Of Two Economies; Ailes In Talks To Step Down From Fox News; Queen Told Trump Not To Use Its Music. Aired 3- 4p ET

Aired July 20, 2016 - 15:00:00   ET




[15:00:33] HALA GORANI, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Hala Gorani. We are live from Cleveland, Ohio and this is the WORLD RIGHT NOW.

It is day three of the Republican National Convention. It all officially kicks off in just a few hours, but it's already been a dramatic day as the

Trump campaign takes the show on the road.


ANNOUNCER: Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome to Cleveland, the next president of the United States, Mr. Donald J. Trump.


GORANI: The newly crowned presidential nominee arrived in Cleveland a short time ago to great fanfare. His campaign threw a friends and family

welcome party where he appeared with his vice-presidential pick, Mike Pence. Trump and Pence spoke briefly to reporters.


DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Come here, Mike. We're going to win Ohio. We're going to win it all. We're going to make America great

again. That's what we want to do.

But the last time I got accused of speaking a little long so this time we're going to speak a lot short. But I just want to introduce a man who's

become a friend of mine, somebody who's going to make an unbelievable vice president of the United States, Governor Mike Pence.

GOVERNOR MIKE PENCE (R), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Thank you, Donald. Let's hear it for the next president of the United States of America,

Donald Trump.


GORANI: But, yet again, Trump's campaign message is being overshadowed by the controversy over his wife's speech. A Trump staffer is now taking the

blame for parts of Melania Trump's speech that plagiarized remarks by Michelle Obama from back in 2008.

That staffer named Meredith McIver has issued a statement. We want to read a big part of it so you can hear her explanation in her own words.

Quote, "In working with Melania Trump on her recent first lady speech, we discussed many people who inspired her and messages that she wanted to

share with the American people. A person she has always liked is Michelle Obama.

Over the phone, she read me some passages from Mrs. Obama's speech as examples. I wrote them down and later included some of the phrasing in the

draft that ultimately became the final speech. I did not check Mrs. Obama's speeches.

This was my mistake, and I feel terrible for the chaos I have caused Melania and the Trumps as well as to Mrs. Obama. No harm was meant,"

unquote. Meredith McIver.

That is quite a big turnaround from the original explanation provided by the Trump campaign, which denied any plagiarism at all calling the

allegations absurd.

You've probably heard the passages in question, but we want to remind you of how similar they are. Take a look.


MELANIA TRUMP, DONALD TRUMP'S WIFE: Because we want our children in this nation to know --

FIRST LADY MICHELLE OBAMA: Because we want our children and all children in this nation to know --

MELANIA TRUMP: That the only limit to your achievements --

OBAMA: That the only limit to the height of your achievements --

MELANIA TRUMP: -- is the strength of your dreams.

OBAMA: -- is the reach of your dreams.

MELANIA TRUMP: And your willingness to work for them.

OBAMA: And your willingness to work hard for them.


GORANI: We're joined now by two CNN political commentators, Republican strategist, Ana Navarro, and Donald Trump supporter, Scottie Nell Hughes.

Hello to both of you.

What I found surprising and I'll start with you, Scottie, is that Melania Trump, the wife of Donald Trump, is so inspired by the words of Michelle

Obama, the wife of Barack Obama, a man that Donald Trump has basically said over and over again has destroyed the country and Hillary Clinton would

only be a third term of the same catastrophic leadership. Here she is acknowledging that she thinks Michelle Obama is inspiring.

SCOTTIE NELL HUGHES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: This is nothing new. She said that often. There are some things (inaudible). I think it's bad when

we become a country when you where you have to Republicans can't agree with anything that Democrats says.

I think that's why we're in this situation we are in today because these folks aren't acknowledging the good and the bad in both parties and working

together on it.

She has said this in several articles that she's ever said and these words and the words that were actually used, the 9 percent of the speech that was

used actually does work.

[15:05:12]It goes across family values. Those values are to every American.

GORANI: All right. It's similar phrasing that's essentially copied and pasted. But Ana, what do you think about this controversy? It won't go

away. Is it going to have a political impact?

ANA NAVARRO, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: The reason it won't go away is because it's been grossly mishandled by the Trump campaign. It's been

grossly mishandled from day one. Frankly, it should have never happened.

When something like a debut speech for Melania Trump and I don't blame Melania Trump. She's not a political spouse. She is not a seasoned

political spouse. She is not person who seeks the limelight. This was her big debut on the national stage.

This is something she's never done before. English is not her first language like it's not mine. It can be very nerve racking to do this, to

do this in such a big platform, such a huge arena.

She came and she did it. It's very common to get help from speech writers, but also it's a very big speech. The campaign had a duty and a

responsibility to vet every word she was going to say.

This should have never happened and once it did happen, they needed to have acknowledged it and they needed to have (inaudible).

GORANI: The campaign manager, Paul Manafort, went on CNN as late as this morning denying that there have been any copying and now we're hearing from

a campaign staffer, yes, the acknowledgment has come through. There was plagiarism. Why did the campaign manager, Paul Manafort, not acknowledge

at least that there was a mistake?

HUGHES: I agree with Ana. This should have been handled. It's not necessarily -- they could have been easily solved this by Tuesday morning.

It could have been a non-issue, but that that's way it's been handled. I was talking about the communications.

I think it's a very innocent mistake. I don't think Melania set out to personally plagiarize Michelle Obama in any way in a negative form. I

think she actually did admire the words like we talked about.

I think it's been handled. I think this talks about some of the issues that are happening within the campaign where the campaign manager says one

thing and the truth might another and it's not --

GORANI: That's a problem, right -- that has to be a problem because voters are going to wonder, especially undecided voters, and those are the

important ones for the Trump campaign. If they can't tell the truth on such a basic small problems such as copying and pasting something, it might

have been a mistake. And of course, Melania Trump is not a seasoned political -- but if on this, you don't get the truth out, then what else

could be problematic here?

NAVARRO: I think what you're seeing this week is the realization by this campaign that they're playing in a different league right now. Frankly,

for the last 16 months, they've gotten away with doing things and saying things that would have killed any other campaign but not have affected

Donald Trump.

And they've doubled down on those mistakes instead of ever admitting they were mistakes or apologizing. I think that they realize now this is a

different league. You're no longer in a Republican primary. You are now trying to win a general election. If you don't nip mistakes like at the

bud by (inaudible) correctly, they're only going to bloom and get bigger.

GORANI: But Scottie, are these the mistakes of basically an amateur campaign here?

HUGHES: Well, about amateurs, more of an aggressive campaign. The lady who wrote the letter, she works for the Trump Organization. She is not

with the campaign. It's not a campaign staffer. She actually works for the Trump and so the communication obviously the two organizations

obviously need some work on it because they are actually supposed to be two separate things in this case.

But I think this is just more about the grassroots. You're right. It's a simple mistake. It never should happened, handled horribly. This is what

you get when you don't bring in a million dollar PR firm that handles everything.

NAVARRO: A seasoned campaign operation at this level, at this point of the campaign, there should have been a team of people. There should have been

legal. There should have been political. There should have been a team of people vetting every word. They should be vetting every word --

HUGHES: There's an app for that actually --

NAVARRO: Well, there needs to be somebody (inaudible) --

GORANI: Let me ask you one forward looking question and you know, we will have ample opportunity to discuss the Melania Trump's speech in the future.

But Mike Pence is making his big appearance here in Cleveland. Of course, Donald Trump and typical Donald Trump style, very grandiose entrance on a

Donald Trump chopper, et cetera.

Mike Pence, is he the man who is going to attract these middle of the road undecided voters in swing states like Ohio, Ana?

NAVARRO: Look, I think Mike Pence is a very solid choice. A guy who has - - who fills in on a lot of the blanks that Donald Trump doesn't have. He is a party guy. He is a guy with Washington experience. He is a guy with

executive experience also running as a governor.

He is very well liked by Republicans that he has worked with. He doesn't agree with Donald Trump on a bunch of stuff. He is not the most exciting

speaker. He is not the most energizing speaker.

But I think, you know, a lot of times with the vice president, really job number one is do no harm. I think Mike Pence is the kind of guy who

doesn't energize anybody but doesn't antagonize them. Maybe other (inaudible) --

[15:10:09]GORANI: But the campaign needs to energize minorities, women, undecided voters. It's not doing -- many of these speeches are not

reaching out at all to undecided voters. It's all about hating on Hillary Clinton.

HUGHES: But even more than that, they have to make sure that those three million to four million voters who stayed home in 2012, those conservative,

core conservative, honest grassroots Tea Parties, that they are actually motivated to go to the polls. That's Mike Pence.

Mr. Trump put it out in his press release. It's all about unity. These are Ted Cruz folks. That he was hoping this would actually be able to kind

put a band aid over their wounds.

GORANI: I spoke to a delegate who said she doesn't like Trump. She's only here because she hates Hillary even more. We'll see if Ted Cruz tonight

even mentions Donald Trump by name.

Ana Navarro, Scottie Nell Hughes, thanks to both of you. A pleasure having you on the program. We'll have a lot more from Cleveland in a moment, but

now other news.

The Turkish president is continuing his severe response to the attempted coup against his government. It's a crackdown. It has extended to a

staggering number of people.

Listen to this figure, 57,000 journalists, police, judges, all among those fired, suspended, arrested, as President Recip Tayyip Erdogan tries to

reassert his power.

The education sector is feeling the full force of the government backlash, 21,000 teachers have had their licenses canceled, more than 21,000

Education Ministry personnel have been suspended along with nearly 9,000 Interior Ministry personnel and more than 1,500 deans of universities were

asked to resign.

Let's get more on this. I want to bring in CNN senior international correspondent, Arwa Damon. She is in Istanbul with the very latest. It's

been barely been a week, Arwa, and already people are saying this is Erdogan taken advantage of this coup attempt to silence his critics.

ARWA DAMON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That really is the concern amongst Erdogan's opponents. What we saw on July 15th was a rare

show of unity and the sense that the vast majority of the Turkish population did not support this violent attempt by this small element of

the military to launch a coup to overthrow a democratically elected president.

But that does not mean that those who oppose Erdogan have suddenly had a change of heart in how they feel about him and the key issue is right now,

the nation is once again divided. You have Erdogan supporters who fully believe in what he is doing or 100 percent and more behind him when it

comes to any actions that he and his government maybe taking.

And then you have his opponents who are looking at what is happening with such dismay because they are worried about exactly that. That this is

going to change from being a reaction to a failed military coup to Erdogan carrying out what they say is another agenda and that is to silence anyone

who stands against him.

Now why they're going after the educational sector? Well, the government will say that schools, teachers, educational institutions. That is one of

the main ways that organizations do end up disseminating their messages and recruiting their members.

Remember the Turkish government the Fethullah Gulen movement of being behind this coup. So specifically they say going after schools, elements

within the educational sector, who would perhaps be discriminating that message and that they are being overly cautious in all of this, which is

why this net so wide spread.

But a senior official does say that a lot of these measures that we are seeing right now, these suspensions he says that they are only temporary.

GORANI: And Arwa, we were showing our viewers some live images of a pro- Erdogan demonstration in Istanbul. How divided is the country and how frustrated is the portion of the country that does not support Erdogan in

this case? Are they worried?

DAMON: They are very worried, Hala. They are very fearful because they don't know how they are going to see their country navigated out of these

uncharted waters. Massive demonstration, I'm assuming, is the one you were referring to in Istanbul is in Taksim Square, which is actually just right

behind us.

This has been going on every single night. These are Erdogan's people, by and large, heeding Erdogan's repeated calls to take to the streets. He put

the message out there. He said during the day go to work. At night take to the squares. We are still under threat.

And this is part of him wanting to show his opponents, but also anyone out there who still maybe even supporting the coup or thinking about doing

something similar.

Look, he still has this massive command over the people. He has people power. That is what mostly at the end of the day saved his presidency,

saved this country's democracy. He was able to call on people that night and go out in the streets and stand in front of these tanks.

The problem right now his opponents would say is that instead of really trying to capitalize on that brief moment of unity that we saw, they fear

that he is going to further what they say is his authoritarian agenda.

And it's very concerning for them as well as for some other human rights organizations that have come out and condemned the spread of this

crackdown, the sheer volume of it at this stage.

GORANI: All right, 57,000 people. Arwa Damon there, our senior international correspondent in Istanbul covering this important story in


A lot more to come this evening, May is on the move. The new British prime minister heads to Berlin on her first international trip not surprisingly

Brexit was the topic of conversation. I'll have that and a lot more from Cleveland.


GORANI: She's only been in the hot seat for a week, but already the British Prime Minister Theresa May is making her presence felt on her first

international trip. The destination an important one, Berlin, and a meeting with the German Chancellor Angela Merkel, the most powerful woman

in Europe.

The topic of conversation was Brexit and how the two countries could still work together over the next few months and beyond Brexit.

Let's go to the German capitol and speak to Atika Shubert. What do the two women say about what will be a very different European Union once Brexit


ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, this was really a getting to know you sort meeting. It sort of set the stage for a

frank and candid discussion, but this was not about the nitty-gritty of the negotiations on Brexit.

In fact, Merkel made it very clear that there would be no negotiations, formal or otherwise, until Article 50's legal mechanism to leave the E.U.

was invoked by Great Britain.

Theresa May made it very clear that that would not be happening until next year at least. So it was really more of a meeting for the two leaders to

get to know each other and so far it seems to have gone quite well. Take a listen to what Prime Minister May have to say.


THERESA MAY, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: I think what is very important is we have two women here who (inaudible) have a very constructive discussion,

two women, who, if I may say so, I think get on with the job and both wants to deliver the best possible results for the people of the U.K. and the

people of Germany.


SHUBERT: Now Chancellor Merkel responded to that with an emphatic (inaudible) or exactly in strong agreement there. I think it was clear

that both are pragmatic leaders with the difficult task ahead. But they are clearly setting the stage for a candid discussion and it's going to

take some time, both acknowledge, before Brexit really happens.

GORANI: So, I mean, they get along well on a personal level? I mean, did you get a sense -- because this is going to be one of the most important

European relationships in the coming years.

[15:20:03]Did observers get a sense that their personal relationship is off to a good start?

SHUBERT: It does seem to be off to a good start. Keep in mind, they have a lot of similarities. They're about the same age. They have had this

long career in politics, but previously they also had careers, different careers.

Merkel was a physicists and May was a banker, but they are also very known for being pragmatic and very direct, and just getting on with things.

They're not very showy politicians and so I think there might be a mutual appreciation of that especially now in the aftermath of Brexit with the

Brexiteers, you know, taking up the limelight in the U.K.

There seems to be much more sober way forward and that's with Prime Minister Theresa May meeting her counterpart, German Chancellor Angela


GORANI: All right, it will be interesting to see what kind of deal the E.U. strikes with the U.K., kind of exit deal in the end is hammered out?

Thanks very much.

Now, Theresa May's trip to Berlin was not the only first for the new prime minister. Earlier, she faced the House of Commons to answer questions from

lawmakers for the first time called PMQs. Understandably the subject of Brexit was brought up once again. Listen.


MAY: I'm very clear Brexit does mean as he says we will make a success of it. What we need to do in negotiating the deal is to ensure that we listen

to what people have said about the need for controls on free movement, but we also negotiate the right deal and the best deal of trade in goods and

services for the British people.


GORANI: Now to Syria where human rights groups say that a recent coalition air strike have killed more than hundred civilians since June. Strikes in

and around Manbij have been blamed by the group for what they say is the largest loss of civilians by the coalition in Syria.

They say dozens more people were injured in these strikes that appear perhaps according to reports to have been a mistake. That the coalition

airstrikes were targeting ISIS fighters, but instead maybe hit the wrong targets.

The U.S. defense secretary has pledged to investigate the claims.


ASH CARTER, U.S. DEFENSE SECRETARY: We're aware of reports of civilian casualties that maybe related to recent coalition air strikes near Manbij

City in Syria, which is one of the last junctions connecting Raqqa to the outside world. We'll investigate these reports and continue to do all we

can to protect civilians from harm. The (inaudible) careful to avoid civilian casualties and being transparent about this issue is a reflection

of civilized nature by this coalition.


GORANI: Ash Carter is pledging an investigation. As soon as we here more on it, of course, we will keep our eye on this developing story.

To a shocking scene now from the heart of Ukraine's capital where a prominent journalist was killed in a car bombing. It's not every day that

car bombings killed journalists there.

The country's president condemned the attack in Kiev calling the victim a patriot as Michael Holmes reports the bombing is raising some very

troubling questions.


MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A car exploded in flames in the Ukrainian capital of Kiev early Wednesday morning. Inside, a

prominent journalist, Pavel Sheremet (ph). An eyewitness to the blast said several people tried to pull Sheremet from the car, but it appeared he was

already dead.

Investigators combing through the charred wreckage say all evidence points to a car bomb. They're calling the journalist' death an assassination.

ARTEM SHEVCHENKO, UKRAINIAN INTERIOR MINISTER SPOKESMAN (through translator): Everything is being done to properly collect all the evidence

at the scene to properly investigate the scene and to conduct the investigation. All possible scenarios will be investigated.

HOLMES: Sheremet reported for a radio news show in Kiev and for Ukrayinska Pravda, a respected investigative web site. The 44-year-old was a

Belarusian citizen who had worked for Russian-state television before moving to Ukraine five years ago.

According to several reports the car Sheremet was driving belonged to his girlfriend, a founding editor of Ukrayinska Pravda raising the possibility

she might have been the intended target. This is the most high profile murder of a reporter in Ukraine in 16 years.

Ukraine's president promising a full investigation adding, quote, "The culprits must be punished." Tributes are now pouring in from friends,

colleagues, and Ukrainian leaders who say Pavel Sheremet was a talented and fearless journalist. Michael Holmes, CNN.


GORANI: In other developments, Russia says it is pushing on with its plans for the Olympics despite still not knowing if it will be allowed to

participate. It has named a team of 387 people to compete at the Rio games.

[15:25:06]Russia, as you know, has been embroiled in this scandal with accusations of state-sponsored doping coming from the highest levels.

Earlier, the head of Russia's Olympic Committee said they would not boycott the Olympics.


ALEXANDER ZHUKOV, RUSSIAN OLYMPIC COMMITTEE HEAD (through translator): We are categorically against any boycotts for political or any other reason.

The Olympic Games, the Olympic movement is something that moves countries closer. It is (inaudible) of friendship, cooperation, strengthening

connections between countries.

Attempts to use the Olympic Games as some kind of political weapon or pressure and more over boycotting of the Olympic Games, I thought that was

all in the distant past.


GORANI: All right, we'll know soon enough the International Olympic Committee is going to be deciding whether or not there is a blanket ban on

all Russian athletes in Rio just a few weeks. That would be a very significant development.

Coming up, though, more from Cleveland. I take you to the convention floor.


GORANI: Do you support Donald Trump?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Of course, I'm going for Donald Trump. I love him.

GORANI: What do you like about him?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He means what he says.


GORANI: We'll show you what the mood was like in this very arena on a historic night for Donald Trump. He officially became the Republican

Party's nominee for president of the United States. We were there. We'll be right back.


GORANI: Welcome back, everybody. A look at our top stories, Donald Trump is back in Cleveland. He's been going back and forth quite a lot from New

York. The Republican nominee for president held a brief rally with his family and vice presidential pick, Mike Pence after he arrived.

He came, by the way, in typical Trump fashion. This time it was a helicopter. Mike Pence will have his moment this evening. He'll speak to

the crowds of delegates in the convention hall behind me.

Also in other Trump related news, a speech writer is officially now and publicly taking the blame for parts of Melania Trump's address that

plagiarized remarks by Michelle Obama.

The staffer says Trump's wife is a fan of Mrs. Obama and that she mentioned passages from a 2008 speech that she admired. The staffer then says that

she said incorporated some phrasing without checking Mrs. Obama's speech herself. She says Trump rejected her offer to resign.

In other big headlines, the purge of state and police in Turkey is now affecting 57,000 people. Journalists, police, judges, all among those that

are fired or suspended. The education sector is also being very heavily targeted. It follows the attempted coup against President Recip Tayyip

Erdogan on Saturday.

Let's turn back to the U.S. presidential race. We are here in Cleveland, Ohio, day three of the Republican National Convention. Now, one of the

most watched speeches here tonight will come from Donald Trump's son, Eric Trump. He's the younger of the two sons that he had with Ivanka Trump.

The 32-year-old is the executive vice president of Development and Acquisitions at the Trump Organization. Eric Trump says he wrote his

entire speech himself without the help of professional speech writers.

Earlier, he spoke to our Wolf Blitzer about why his father chose to run for president.


ERIC TRUMP, DONALD TRUMP'S SON: He's a man who doesn't need to be running for this position. He could live a beautiful life in Florida. He could be

taking it easy. He doesn't the stress, but I mean, he's sitting here watching a country that has given him so much go down the tubes. And he

simply couldn't sit by and let that happen.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST, "THE SITUATION ROOM": Because he often over the years and have done it for a long time, he speculated. You know, maybe

I'll run for president of the United States. I never took him all that seriously. You heard your dad speculate about that I'm sure for a long

time. Did you ever really think that was a serious consideration?

ERIC TRUMP: But I think we as family played into that, right. I mean, he had a meeting (inaudible) business. What was he going to do? Take the

tens and thousands of employees that he has around the country and say, you know what, guys, I'm going to take off. Good luck.

No, I mean, he had (inaudible) duty to his business and to his organization. You know, when he contemplated four years ago, I don't think

he could have run at that time because we probably weren't prepared.

Don, Ivanka, and I have all been in the business for over ten years at this point and we know it better than anybody. We do all the assets. We run

all the assets. It really gives him a very clean break to say, listen, I'm going to dedicate my entire life to politics, to winning this race, and to

fixing a country.


GORANI: Well, there was a lot of excitement on the convention floor Tuesday night. I went searching for Trump supporters in the crowd. It

wasn't very difficult. Here's a look.


GORANI: The official nomination process for Donald Trump. We've been called him the presumptive nominee for months, but tonight is the night he

reaches that magic number, 1,237 delegates. Donald Trump this evening becomes the official Republican nominee for president of the United States.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Forty one votes for the next president of the United States, Donald J. Trump.

GORANI: From what state?


GORANI: You support Donald Trump?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Of course, I go for Donald Trump. I love him.

GORANI: What do you like about him?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He means what he says. He is a fresh face. He has no political motives and he just wants to make America great again.

GORANI: We are broadcast all over world. We work for CNN. Some people have expressed concern at some of the things he said about minorities,

Mexicans, Muslims, things like that. Do you share any of that concern?


GORANI: Why not?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because I don't think that -- in fact, I know. He's been labeled with a lot of different terms, which is not the truth. I wish

somebody that the people before they really broadcast something that's or repeat something, get to know the man.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I will be voting for Donald Trump.

GORANI: Can you explain it to me because it was very acrimonious between the two men during the campaign. So why then now are you in support of


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because I cannot vote for Hillary.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So I must vote for Donald Trump.

GORANI: Do you think Abraham Lincoln would have said we are going in the right direction with the Republican Party today?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, we're going to make America great again. We are going to make America work again.

GORANI: It's the theme today, make America work again. Do you think there's a problem there?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. A lot of people don't like to work.

GORANI: How do you explain to our international audience, Donald Trump tonight being officially essentially nominated crowned the standard bearer

of the new Republican Party.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is the imperfect process the makes up democracy. One man, one vote, one woman, one vote, and the people have spoken. He

went through a rather robust process. He ended up the nominee. I think there's going to be a continued debate about what the Republican Party

stands for.

GORANI: But it's been clearly divided. Can it unify again? You have very, very reluctant Republican establishment figures, you know, and making

appearances, but you can their heart isn't in it?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Time will tell.


GORANI: CNN senior political analyst, David Gergen, joins me now. He's advised many presidents including Ronald Reagan, Ford, Clinton, and Nixon.

Thanks for being with us.


GORANI: What do you make of what happened yesterday evening? You've been to many, many conventions. How does this one compare, this formal roll

call nomination process?

GERGEN: Well, it was a very old fashioned kind of roll call. In the computer age, you can do all this by machine and be over in 30 seconds.

But I thought what was fascinating was that we took something very old fashioned and from that, we have forward and opened up a brand new chapter

in American politics and we have no idea where it's going.

This is -- we've now nominated a Republican Party, the biggest outsider we've ever seen in American politics. There have been people in the past

who have never held public office, but one was Dwight Eisenhower. He was a general and he had lots and lots of experience in public leadership. You

know, Donald Trump has zero and the world is on edge about what he represents as of much of the United States.

GORANI: That's part of his appeal, isn't it?

GERGEN: That is part of his appeal. The same of kind of appeal you see with Brexit and some of the votes there, what you see in Japan and Germany.

There are these breakaway parties, these populous parties that are putting forward candidates and he very much comes out -- there is parallels between

what's happening here and what's happening in Europe.

GORANI: Right. So do you think because here many people, observers, and professional pollster say look, we've run the numbers. There is no way

Donald Trump, if he doesn't get a crashing majority of the white vote can become president of the United States in November. But then all these

pollsters and professional bookies got it very wrong for Brexit.

GERGEN: Well, exactly, exactly. I think that's why he is the underdog coming out of this probably, but you can count him out. I don't know what

the percentage is, 20, 25 percent at least that he's got for winning.

But something very different has happened. One of the reasons you see a lot of resistance, not on the floor, not among the grassroots folks at the

convention but among the governors and others. John Kasich, the governor of Ohio, critical governor to this, not even coming in his own home state -


GORANI: And the Bushes basically were not coming, big establishment Republican names --

GERGEN: And George W. has been openly -- he's talked it privately but is now in the open. George W. has speculated that he may be the last

Republican president. This is at the coming of Trump could bring down the party. So we don't know where this is going. It is a new chapter.

But I can't emphasize enough, it's also unpredictable. We live in a volatile time. You know, the press coming out of this convention so far

has been very mixed to negative especially over the Melania Trump's controversy, but a lot about, you know, the divisions in the party and so

forth and so on.

But you know what? The audience back home has been very, very abnormally large. That suggest that a lot of people are tuning in.

GORANI: Absolutely. Very interested and also our international audiences. I want to get your take on a very quick conversation ahead with Corey

Lewandowski, who is --

GERGEN: Good luck.

GORANI: -- a former Trump campaign manager and I want to also, because you worked in politics for so many decades, get your take also on this man's

style and this perhaps in some ways embodies the type of people that the Trump campaign employs, very brash and got very upset with me after I asked

him a couple of questions.

First, I want our viewers to listen to the conversation.


GORANI: I mean, you obviously you were fired from the Trump campaign so now you saw him reach that magic 1,237 number. What went through your


COREY LEWANDOWSKI, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think it shows that the American people are ready for a leader in Washington, D.C. who is going to

fundamentally change the system and that's -- what we saw tonight is that Donald Trump is going to be that person.

GORANI: Some people are asking, you know, since you left the campaign, you were dismissed from the campaign. Why are you still so glowingly positive

about Donald Trump and his campaign? Why are there absolutely no hard feelings?

LEWANDOWSKI: I had a front row to history for 18 months at a front row seat and when you get off that seat, that doesn't mean your feelings

change. It's about loyalty. It's about what you believe in and if you believe in something even if you can't be part of it the same way, it

doesn't mean you stop believing in it and I believe.

GORANI: And Paul Manafort, the current campaign manager, do you think he should be let go or do you think he should be fired? You've said that?

LEWANDOWSKI: No. I didn't say either one of those things. What I said was it's Paul's decision so Paul can make his own decision rather than

saying anything about him being fired or let go.

GORANI: What about Melania Trump's plagiarism claims? Is this something that you think was -- who do you think should be held responsible for that?

LEWANDOWSKI: I don't work for the campaign, but what I do know is that Melania is an incredibly smart, intelligent and beautiful and delivered an

amazing last night. And anything that's distracting from that is disappointing.


GORANI: So David, what do you make of the staffing of the Trump campaign and how they communicate their message?

GERGEN: Well, two things, one is there are a number of people like Corey who have come and gone with Donald Trump, but they remain incredibly loyal

to him.

[15:40:06]But it is also true, as you said, they can be brash, making it very tough. You know, they have said publicly they're making as a role

model for this convention speech and for the convention.

Richard Nixon's campaign of 1968 when he ran as a law and order candidate, that's the first time I've heard for a long, long time in it by saying, you

know, I'd like to be like Richard Nixon --

GORANI: Right, it's not a name you bring up as a model for how you'd like to --

GERGEN: In the Melania controversy, what you saw in fact was old fashion (inaudible) no problems here, nothing wrong, move on, just an accident,

just move on. And now they've come out and said, yes, OK, we messed up and give credit to them. We ought to move on from the Melania story now.

GORANI: Yes, now, I want to get to this quick because they're going to do a sound check now. We are expecting Ted Cruz who was called a liar by

Donald Trump. Donald Trump even implicated or suggested that his father might be implicated in the JFK's assassination.

GERGEN: The personal animosity runs deep on both sides of this and the Trump people would like to let them move on. One of the tensions here in

this third night is Ted Cruz going to endorse him or is he going to continue to play the reluctant warrior and very importantly to a lot of the

Trump what he's really do is setting himself up for the next election cycle in 2020 and they resent that.

GORANI: David Gergen, always a pleasure. Thank you is much for joining us.

Still to come this hour, a tale of two economies. Republican leaders are gloomy about the national outlook, but upbeat when it comes to the local

economic picture. This is an interesting story here for you. Another angle will explore after the break.


GORANI: Well, if you listen to the speeches on stage at this very convention, the American economy according to everything we're hearing is

in complete free-fall, and the person to blame, the American president, Barack Obama.


KEVIN MCCARTHY, HOUSE MAJORITY LEADER: For eight years we have had a president whose promised us so much but delivered so little. The lies we

were told about Obamacare, the destruction of jobs in entire industries.

PAUL RYAN, U.S. HOUSE SPEAKER: If opportunity seems like it's been slipping away, that's because it has. Wages never seem to go up. The

whole economy feels stuck and millions of Americans, millions of Americans, middle class security is now just a memory.


GORANI: Well, my next guest is Michael Grunwald. He is a senior writer with "Political Magazine" and he's written a very interesting article about

this very issue. So we were telling our viewers if you listen to the speeches, it's a disaster, the economic picture is horrible, it's all

Barack Obama's fault. Let's fact check this.

[15:45:09]MICHAEL GRUNWALD, SENIOR WRITER, "POLITICO MAGAZINE": Well, what's funny is I went and talked to the actual Republican delegates and

they say very much the same thing. The Obama economy is a disaster, jobs, we need jobs.

The theme last night is make America work again. Then you ask them how the economy is doing in their home town and in Blue Grass, Iowa, pretty much

everywhere I asked people, the economy is doing great.

GORANI: Why is this message resonating?

GRUNWALD: Well, you know, it certainly resonates with Republicans because they don't like the Democratic president, but you know, the statistics are

pretty solid. Unemployment has gone from double digits to below 5 percent. The price of gas is way down, health care cost are at the lowest level in

50 years. The stock market is at an all-time high. There's plenty of good things going on.

GORANI: And also we had jobless benefit claims at a 43-year low. So if you take all that into account why is among the Republican Party faithful

and the supporters here why is Barack Obama not getting credit for having, you know, done a good job essentially?

GRUNWALD: Well, if they were going to give Barack Obama for doing a really good job, I think we could take down all the --

GORANI: Stack the stools and go to the bar.

GRUNWALD: Honestly, look, the American people although Barack Obama perhaps partly because of the, you know, fight between Hillary Clinton and

Donald Trump were so unpopular, Barack Obama, he's the most popular, he has been since his honeymoon. He's at 54, 55 percent.

But at the same time most Americans still think the country is on the wrong track and certainly the Republicans are trying to play into that sense of

dissatisfaction or at least insecurity.

GORANI: But there are good headline nationwide numbers, but then there's no denying that there are pockets of economic doom and gloom, especially in

post-industrial areas, I mean, the rust belt. You have especially the lower income white workers who have suffered quite a bit, have they not?

GRUNWALD: We certainly see that in coal country and there is certainly the rust belt is lagging behind some of the country. But even there, you have

to remember when Obama took office, we were hemorrhaging 800,000 jobs a month after the financial crisis. So it's very tough for Republicans to

make the argument that things have gotten worse. Now things aren't as good as they could be --

GORANI: But those are the --

GRUNWALD: -- with growth kind of anemic, that sort of --

GORANI: But those voters are also the ones who are responding, you know, quite well to Trump's message, right, that maybe there are opportunities,

they don't have as many opportunities, that those jobs they once had historically, factory jobs, steal jobs, that's all gone. This is all

globalization's fault.

GRUNWALD: Well, that would certainly be, you know, Trump hopes so, and it certainly worked well in the Republican primary where he was kind of

playing to a friendly crowd. I think his real challenge is to broaden that message, you know, beyond the Republican base.

Remember, Barack Obama won a pretty comfortable victory in 2012 when unemployment was 8 percent and now the country has gotten, you know, a

couple of percent more demographically more favorable to Democrats and unemployment is 5 percent.

You have to wonder who are going to be the Obama voters who are going to be so dissatisfied with the way things are going that they are going to switch

over to Trump.

GORANI: Michael Grunwald, fascinating, thanks very much. A senior writer at "Politico Magazine," pleasure having you on the show on CNN. We'll be

right back.



GORANI: Welcome back. So this is big news in the media world, the CEO of Fox News and one of the most influential men in media, Roger Ailes is in

talks to step down from the company. It comes amid allegations of sexual harassment that date back decades.

Ailes has grown the network, Fox News, into a wildly profitable operation after working as a media consultant in his past careers for three

Republican presidents. He himself denies the sexual harassment accusations.

CNN Money senior media correspondent, Brian Stelter, is following the story. So is he out?

BRIAN STELTER, CNN MONEY SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: He's out but not quite yet. Today he's out. Fox News running the network that he founded

and built 20 years ago, but he is in exit talks. It could come as soon as this afternoon. If not today then tomorrow. If not tomorrow then next

week, but the Murdochs, the owner of the whole entire Fox Company, have decided that Ailes must leave. So it's a matter of when now.

GORANI: Why? Why have they decided that?

STELTER: They know more than we know. You know, there's been this law firm investigation the allegations of harassment for a couple of weeks now.

Gretchen Carlson, the ex-anchor filed her lawsuit two weeks ago today.

This law firm has been interviewing past and present Fox employees including Megyn Kelly, the famous 9:00 p.m. anchor on Fox. We don't know

exactly what they've learned. They are not commenting, but apparently they've found enough evidence to remove Ailes.

At the same time, we know the Murdoch sons are not big fans of Ailes so maybe they are seizing this opportunity to do something they wanted to do


GORANI: But he's the chief architect, the creator of this very popular cable news channel?

STELTER: And that's why he was thought to be untouchable, right? No matter what.

GORANI: And so what happens to Fox News after Ailes?

STELTER: If you have to answer to that, I would love to hear it. I think nobody inside Fox knows. Frankly some of them are here in Cleveland asking

me that question because there are a lot of concern now inside Fox News about what happens to the channel.

At the same time, there are many Americans, a lot of them aren't in this hall because this a hall filled with conservatives and Republicans but many

Americans feel that Fox News has helped divide the United States causing more polarization and more confusion.

It's made the media world more biased or more opinion driven and so I think some people see this departure of Ailes as a good positive thing for media.

GORANI: It's a big risk.

STELTER: It's a big financial risk. The Murdochs have to figure out a succession plan. Right now there's no indication of what that plan could

be. Will they bring in someone from "Sky News" in Britain or will they have someone inside Fox to promote, to run the company.

GORANI: Or perhaps it's an organization that has found its identity and can run under new leadership.

STELTER: For a little while. I think it can run on auto pilot for a little while, but Ailes was Fox News. Without Ailes we don't know what Fox

will be.

GORANI: Brian Stelter, always a pleasure, thanks very much.

The Rock and Roll Hall Of Fame is also here in Cleveland. Tuesday night American rock band, Third Eye Blind took the stage there. The band used

the charity concert, in fact, to quote/unquote, "troll the Republican Party, to mock the Republican platform."

Many in the crowd began to boo. Check out the band's political statement before they launched into one of their most famous songs.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Like my cousins who are gay into the American fabric, to love this song is to take into your heart the message and to actually,

actually have a feeling and arrive and move forward and not live your life in fear and imposing that fear on other people.


GORANI: Rock songs and political rallies often go hand in hands on obviously but sometimes the artists are not very excited about it at all.

Jake Tapper explains.


JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST, "THE LEAD" (voice-over): The undeniable authors of Donald Trump's message so far this week, the rock group "Queen, We Are The

Champions" captivating the convention as Trump took the stage Monday night.

Those inspiring lyrics and rocking tune that was played without permission the band says, quote, "An unauthorized used at the Republican Convention

against our wishes," Queen tweeted. Just the latest clash at the crossroads of politics and rock and no city knows it better than this one.

(on camera): Here in Cleveland at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, there's a whole exhibit about the intersection of rock and politics with many

exhibits detailing tense moments such as these.

Here's the outfit that Bruce Springsteen wore on the cover of "Born in the USA." Here is the notebook where he wrote down the lyrics.

(voice-over): Reagan thought the song was about a bright American future.

FORMER PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN: That rest in the message of hope in songs of a man so many young Americans admire, New Jersey's own, Bruce


[15:55:01]TAPPER: Springsteen actually penned the tune about the dark side of the American story and the harsh treatment of Vietnam veterans. Rock

and Roll Hall of Fame president, Greg Harris, says musical mix ups a bigger problem for modern campaigns.

GREG HARRIS, PRESIDENT AND CEO, ROCK AND ROLL HALL OF FAME: Years ago they actually had songwriters write the campaign songs, sort of co-opting

popular songs with something that's happened in the last couple of decades.

TAPPER: The presumptive Republican presidential nominee has an eclectic playlist at his rallies one that includes Jock Jams, Opera, and until

recently Twisted Sister.

(on camera): This is a t-shirt and a jean jacket worn by Twisted Sister front man, Dee Snider whose conflicts with politicians date back to 1985

when he was hauled before the Senate to testify against warning labels on record albums. He most recently had to make a phone call to his friend,

Donald Trump.

DEE SNIDER, LEAD SINGER, TWISTED SISTER: I said, man, you got to stop using the song. People think I'm endorsing you here. I can't get behind a

lot of what you're saying. He said fair enough.

TAPPER (voice-over): But you can't always get what you want. The Rolling Stones told Donald Trump to stop using their song. Still the hits keep on


(on camera): When he introduced Mike Pence who is reputed to be not his first choice necessarily, the Rolling Stones, "You Can't Always Get What

You Want" was playing.

HARRIS: Sounds like he needs a better music editor and then somebody has to read the lyrics.

TAPPER (voice-over): Then again, taking a risk in rallying up a crowd. That's why exhibits like this exist.

HARRIS: Being at odds with the status quo, that's what rock and roll is all about.

TAPPER: Jake Tapper, CNN, Cleveland, Ohio.


GORANI: This has been THE WORLD RIGHT NOW. Thanks for watching. I'm Hala Gorani. "THE LEAD" with Jake Tapper is up next.