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Ted Cruz Booed as He Withholds Trump Endorsement; Trump Contradicts Pence on Aiding NATO Allies; Interview with Representative Adam Kinzinger; Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired July 21, 2016 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:00:26] CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: And good morning, I'm Carol Costello live at the Republican National Convention in Cleveland. And boy, oh, boy, what a morning it has been. Thank you so much for joining me.

It was personal. That was the message from Ted Cruz to the GOP just moments ago. The former candidate taking to the stage at a Texas delegate breakfast, laying bare his anger at Donald Trump, refusing to fall in line behind the billionaire nominee.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TED CRUZ (R), TEXAS: I am not in the habit of supporting people who attack my wife and attack my father.

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)

CRUZ: And that pledge was not a blanket commitment that if you go and slander and attack Heidi that I'm going to, nonetheless, come like a servile puppy dog and say, thank you very much for maligning my wife and maligning my father.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why don't you guys get over this politics?

CRUZ: No, no, this is not politics. I will tell the truth. I will not malign. I will not insult. I will not attack. I will tell the truth. This is not a game. It is not politics. Right and wrong matters. We have not abandoned who we are in this country.

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Senator Cruz made those comments in part as an explanation for refusing to endorse Donald Trump at the convention last night. Listen as the crowd boos when the crowd realizes that Cruz is going to refuse to endorse the candidate.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CRUZ: Stand and speak and vote your conscience, vote for candidates up and down the ticket who you trust to defend our freedom and to be faithful to the Constitution.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: All right, Jason Carroll was in the room for that meeting. He was at the delegate breakfast this morning. He talked to two delegates. They had a very emotional exchange. Tell us more, Jason.

JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Carol, it was really extraordinary to be here in the room and to listen to Ted Cruz explain to many of the people who came to this breakfast looking for more clarification, looking for more sense in terms of what happened last night.

You know, even before Ted Cruz took the stage here this morning, when we were speaking to delegates, the room was split. Really symbolic of what the party is, the party being split. A number of people telling me this morning, Carol, that they felt as though they were embarrassed by what Ted Cruz said last night, they felt hurt, and they felt as though he needed to come here today to do more to explain himself.

And having said that, there were also a number of people in the room who said look, we feel as though he spoke from his heart, he spoke from his conscience, and what he did and what he said is what he should have done and what he should have said.

Geraldine Sam is a woman from Texas. She stood up during the middle of this breakfast, during the Q&A portion of the breakfast and stood up and said, look, you took a pledge, you took a pledge to support the nominee. And if you're not a man of your word, what are you then? And she was met by a standing ovation. She teared up, she was so emotional about what had happened. And we reached out to her. Spoke to her about why she was so upset about Ted Cruz not supporting Donald Trump.

Listen to what she had to say in her own words.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GERALDINE SAM, FORMER MAYOR OF LA MARQUE, TEXAS: And if you cannot be a person, a word of your bond, then guess what, if I can't trust you to say -- say and do what you're going to say, then how are you going to expect me to trust you to say any other things?

If you lied to me, then that's telling me you lied to me. You lied to me. You lied and said that you were going to support the party nominee and you won't. Then you lied to me. And I'm very upset at this time.

When you walked on, I turned my back. Why? Because you lied to me. And don't take my vote for granted because you lied to me.

I came to this convention as a Cruz delegate and I'm leaving supporting Donald Trump as the party nominee.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CARROLL: Really extraordinary. Especially since she kept using the word, "you lied to me." Of course you remember during the primary, Donald Trump kept referring to Senator Cruz as "Lying Ted."

In a moment after that when I had Geraldine with another woman who actually supports Ted Cruz, supports what he said last night, the two of them were trying to debate each other for a while and in the end they hugged. And that is what many people are feeling this party needs to do, but seems to be unable to do.

[10:05:01] There seems to be a number of people in this party. And what you're seeing here with the Texas delegation is in some ways symbolic of what we're seeing at large. You know, there are people within the GOP who want to see more unity. They're just trying to find a way to find it -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All right, Jason Carroll, reporting live for us, thanks so much.

With me now to talk about all of this, actually what's been quite an astounding morning, Andy Smith, he's the director at the University of New Hampshire Survey Center. Bob Frost is the chairman of the Republican Party here in Cuyahoga County. Katrina Pierson is the national spokesperson for the Trump campaign and last but not least Kristina Schake, she's the deputy communications director for Hillary for America.

Welcome to all of you. Katrina, I want to start with you. Ted Cruz said he doesn't know if he's going to vote for Donald Trump, certainly not going to endorse him. He says it's personal.

KATRINA PIERSON, NATIONAL SPOKESPERSON, TRUMP CAMPAIGN: Well, it's obviously personal and that's the problem, Carol. Because it's not about Ted Cruz right now, as many of his delegates have pointed out to him, to his face today. Ted Cruz had an opportunity to be the hero, he could been the uniter, he could have been the one that saved the day at the end, and yet he chose personal opportunity here.

COSTELLO: Isn't Donald Trump supposed to be the uniter, though?

PIERSON: Well, absolutely. I think you'll find today that the party will be united behind Donald Trump. But he's been doing that along the way. The problem we have here is you have Senator Cruz and his supporters who are staunch believers and believers in God, except for the fact that they can't understand that sometimes their plan isn't God's plan.

We have an opportunity to grow the tent, to have a candidate outside the system come in and do what in the grassroots have been wanting to do for a very long time and Senator Cruz punted the ball and I think you saw fallout last night.

COSTELLO: Ted Cruz didn't mention God, though, at the breakfast meeting this morning. He mentioned the Constitution. He wants a strict constitutionalist.

PIERSON: And that's --

COSTELLO: He's not really sure that Donald Trump is that person. PIERSON: But that makes this even worse because we know Hillary

Clinton isn't. We know that the Supreme Court is up for grabs. We know that Hillary Clinton is not going to do anything that Ted Cruz wants to do. We have police officers being executed in the streets of America right now. It is not about Ted Cruz. It is about the country.

COSTELLO: But -- and listening to Ted Cruz and in watching what happened at the convention, you would think the Republican Party is coming apart.

PIERSON: Well, actually you wouldn't. This is politics. This is a difference of opinion. Republicans are not monolithic voting bloc. This is the opportunity for people to express their grievances, to talk about their differences, but at the end you're supposed to come together and for the most part you see the establishment of all people coming in to support Trump and then there's Senator Cruz.

COSTELLO: Three days. Senator Ted Cruz said three days before he was to appear at this convention, his people called the Trump people and said, you know what, I'm not going to endorse Donald Trump. Right?

PIERSON: Which I think is a testament to Donald Trump --

COSTELLO: So why allow him -- why take this gamble? Because that's what Donald Trump did it, right? He gambled with that.

PIERSON: No, he didn't. Donald Trump kept his word. He wants to commit to do everything he possibly can to unite the party. Donald Trump was the bigger person in this issue. He gave Senator Cruz the platform. He wanted his voters and his delegates to see and hear the senator speak in primetime nonetheless and gave Senator Cruz one last opportunity to honor his word. The voters spoke.

If you're a constitutional conservative, you let the people decide. You don't get to decide you don't like the rules or don't want to participate anymore because the people voted against you as that delegate pointed out. He did not keep his word. And if we can't trust him to follow a simple pledge, how can we trust him to lead the country?

COSTELLO: OK. So, Rob, you heard what Senator Cruz said. He said, you know, when I took the pledge on that debate stage, I had every intention of keeping it to vote for Donald Trump, but then the campaign became personal and he started not to trust Donald Trump so he reneged on the pledge. Does that make sense to you?

ROBERT FROST, CHAIRMAN, REPUBLICAN PARTY, CUYAHOGA COUNTY, OHIO: Well, it doesn't. I agree with what Katrina said already. The fact that it's personal is the problem. Contrast that I agree with so much of what Katrina said. Really everything there. Where we might differ, you know, I'm here as a Kasich delegate, I'm here in Ohio, support our governor. He spoke to our breakfast this morning. Much different tone, though. Because for him, it's not personal. This is not about a grudge or a (INAUDIBLE). He's been consistent in saying ever since a couple of days after he dropped out of the race that if Donald Trump is on a positive unifying message, we know that's what it takes to win in Ohio.

This isn't about looking back and bearing grudges. This is about looking forward. And so the Ohio team, we're ready to get going.

COSTELLO: But so --

FROST: Unified coming out of this convention.

COSTELLO: So how is John Kasich adding to the unification of the Republican Party because he's not even here?

FROST: Well, he's --

COSTELLO: He's not going to appear. He's also -- I don't know if he's going to vote for Trump or not. He hasn't decided yet, right?

(CROSSTALK)

COSTELLO: Certainly not endorsing him.

FROST: Even he doesn't know if he's going to. But he is here. He's here in Cleveland. He's greeting the Safety Forces. He's greeting people throughout the town of Cleveland, welcoming them and thanking them for coming. But no, he didn't go on that stage. And maybe what we saw last night is maybe that was a good decision.

It was a bruising primary. And the more bruises, the longer it takes to heal. We need to come out with the Republican team in Ohio behind Donald Trump. We have a nominee. No more presumptive in front of his name. That decision has been made. He won those delegates fair and square. The same way John Kasich won his delegates in Ohio and a few other places.

[10:10:04] And so we carried that out. According to the rules, we have a nominee. Now let's go forward together. We may still have some differences. But let's put them aside and go forward and beat Hillary Clinton in November.

COSTELLO: But, Andy, if you watched Senator Cruz, the differences seem to be -- I mean, there's a wide chasm between Senator Cruz and Donald Trump and John Kasich for different reasons so how can there be any unifying of the party unless Donald Trump gives one hell of a speech tonight?

ANDY SMITH, DIRECTOR, UNIVERSITY OF NEW HAMPSHIRE SURVEY CENTER: Well, I think that political parties exist maybe only solely to win elections. And you win elections by having as many people behind you and support you as possible. What you typically see at conventions is the party realizes that and they put aside the differences. So we've seen more bitter differences between campaigns before. But --

COSTELLO: But this is different, right?

SMITH: Well, the 1976 campaign between Reagan and Ford was very divisive but Reagan at the end gave a very similar speech, one difference at the end, he endorsed Ford. The -- COSTELLO: That's big difference.

SMITH: 1992 you had --

COSTELLO: You had Senator Cruz say he's not even sure he's going to vote for him.

SMITH: But I think the one thing that that speech did last night was do more to unify the party than divide it. Because there are a lot of people who have not liked Donald Trump coming into this campaign. Kasich supporters, Bush supporters, whoever. But they see that and they say wait a minute, we may not like it, we may not believe everything that Donald Trump says, we may not agree with him on everything, but he's our party's candidate. In the end, we're Republicans, we're going to go with him. So I think that will likely do more to unify the party than hurt it.

COSTELLO: So Kristina.

KRISTINA SCHAKE, DEPUTY COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, HILLARY FOR AMERICA. Yes.

COSTELLO: The Democratic reaction.

SCHAKE: Yes.

COSTELLO: Are Democrats just sitting back and, I don't know, smiling?

SCHAKE: Well, I just have to say we're seeing a party in chaos and disarray. I mean, what we saw from Senator Cruz last night is that he's not supporting this candidate and he's joining other prominent Republicans who aren't either. I mean, at this convention this week, we don't have former President Bush, the other former President Bush, we don't have Governor Romney.

This is a Republican Party that the prominent leaders aren't standing behind this candidate because they don't really believe deep down that he has the temperament or the knowledge to be our president and our commander-in-chief. That's going to be in stark contrast to what we're going to see next week in Philadelphia.

We have a united, energized Democratic Party. We're going to start out our week with First Lady Michelle Obama. We're going to have President Obama speaking. We have the prominent leaders of the Democratic Party all coming together enthusiastically to support her candidacy. That's a real difference from what we saw this week.

COSTELLO: So I see the look on your face.

(LAUGHTER)

PIERSON: Yes, Carol. And I think what she mentioned was spot on. You know, the Bushes aren't here, Romney is not here. And guess what, that's a good thing for Donald Trump. This entire campaign has been about being someone outside that system. And I'm sure the Clinton campaign is going to roll out the entire establishment which is why Bernie Sanders exists today and I think that's a good thing for us as well.

We are still double digits ahead in the polls with independents. We have disenfranchised Democrats that came over, tens of thousands in swing states, which is exactly why you see Mr. Trump being extremely competitive in those states. Even in Florida.

So we're not really concerned with who's not here. What we are concerned with is the message that we are getting out, Mr. Trump's policies that are completely difference from the Bushes which wants to buy jobs back to the country, curb illegal immigration, secure the border and protect law enforcement.

COSTELLO: I do think, though -- I do think, though, because I was out talking to Republicans here in Ohio. A lot of people don't like the divisiveness within the Republican Party. And they don't like the language that Mr. Trump uses. And they're still very upset about it. Especially the women voters that I talked with. They really want to hear something from him to prove that he's changed. So I know, you know, we're like brushing aside Ted Cruz's personal -- but personal matters to voters.

PIERSON: It does.

COSTELLO: It does. It does.

PIERSON: It absolutely does.

COSTELLO: His language matters. Really matters. Especially to the Republican women that I talk with.

PIERSON: It absolutely does. And when you're just seeing snippets on the news, it makes a big difference as well. But you cannot have a competition that we have today with someone previously who wanted to fundamentally transform the country and here we are. You can't be nice and polite as Mr. Trump would say. We don't have time for talk --

COSTELLO: You can be tough --

PIERSON: However, though --

COSTELLO: You can be tough in many different ways.

PIERSON: However, Carol -- He has been. You have seen some of that in him. When he's at his rallies, he's engaging with supporters. When he has press conferences. It is a different tone. But we are essentially at war in this country with the media, with the left, with the extremists, with the socialists, with the anarchist now.

COSTELLO: But -- and also with Senator Ted Cruz, right, at the moment?

PIERSON: Well, that's Senator Cruz at war with --

COSTELLO: So why not --

PIERSON: A section of the Republican Party, not Trump.

COSTELLO: Why didn't Donald Trump call Ted Cruz and say you know what, I'm really sorry about what I said about your wife, I'm sorry that I accused your father of being involved in JFK's assassination? I'm sorry that I intimated that you weren't a U.S. citizen and not eligible to run for president of the United States?

PIERSON: Let me actually address that because I think that's extremely important. You know, I've been listening to the coverage all day today. And we always leave out the fact that it was Donald Trump's wife Melania that was attacked for weeks, even months by Ted Cruz surrogates and super PAC. She was called a whore. A naked photo of her was ran in a television ad.

COSTELLO: I didn't hear Senator Cruz calling Melania Trump a whore.

[10:15:01] PIERSON: And yet no one -- and yet no --

COSTELLO: Calling Melania Trump a whore.

PIERSON: And yet no one said anything on CNN until Donald Trump says my wife is beautiful.

COSTELLO: OK, so, but Donald Trump is the nominee right now. He's the guy.

PIERSON: Now he is. Absolutely.

COSTELLO: It's his responsibility to unify the party, to get Ted Cruz on board, because he invited Ted Cruz to speak --

(CROSSTALK)

PIERSON: Carol, he invited Ted Cruz -- listen, I'll tell you something, Trump is not going to beg for an endorsement. He has said this entire time that we welcome everyone to endorse but we don't want to force you to. This is something that was on Ted Cruz, not Donald Trump. Donald Trump has gone out of his way. He's extended the olive branch. They've spoken. He invited him to speak. That was his opportunity. And he chose not to follow his own pledge. That's not Donald Trump's problem. We're moving forward. It's on to November.

COSTELLO: All right. Thanks to all of you. I do appreciate it.

Right. I wanted to say your names, again Andy Smith, Rob Frost, Kristina Pierson, Kristina Schake, thank you all so much.

Coming up later this morning, Donald Trump Jr. will sit down with Erin Burnett. That's ahead at 11:30 a.m. Eastern only on CNN.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, Pence gets trumped. It wasn't just Ted Cruz who overshadowed the veep pick. How Donald Trump stole the spotlight.

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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[10:20:25] BETH RYMONT, OHIO VOTER: I think we need somebody who's going to bring the country together. I think somebody that's a strong leader who's going to say, you know, we're all in this together. We're America.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Donald Trump will attempt to do just that when he takes to the stage to officially accept the Republican nomination for president. Tonight's theme is "Make America Won Again." Other speakers include Oklahoma Governor Mary Fallon, RNC Chairman Reince Priebus and Trump's oldest daughter Ivanka who will introduce her father.

Trump making a surprise move ahead of tonight's big speech. He talks foreign policy with the "New York Times." The only problem, his message completely contradicted what running mate Mike Pence has to say last night.

CNN's Phil Mattingly inside the convention hall with more on that. Good morning, Phil.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, good morning, Carol. I've been e-mailing with Republican delegates all morning and the reviews on Mike Pence's remarks here in Cleveland last night universally positive, an upbeat message, selling Donald Trump particularly to conservatives who we saw last night are still very wary of the Trump candidacy.

The problem, this is about the second or third thing delegates are actually talking about this morning. Obviously it's the Ted Cruz issue. It's also foreign policy. Donald Trump's interview with "The New York Times."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MATTINGLY (voice-over): Donald Trump contradicting his running mate, Mike Pence, on the biggest night of his career. Pence detailing his approach to foreign policy to an enthusiastic audience at the Republican National Convention.

MIKE PENCE (R), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We cannot have four more years apologizing to our enemies and abandoning our friends. Donald Trump will rebuild our military and stand with our allies.

MATTINGLY: But that's not what Donald Trump is saying in a new interview. "The New York Times" reporting that Trump is questioning whether he would automatically defend NATO members. When specifically asked about Russia's aggression towards the Baltic States, Trump says he would only come to their aid if they, quote, "have fulfilled their obligations to us."

This contradiction the second major policy discrepancy on display this week between the Republican nominee and his newly-minted running mate.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESUMPTIVE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: That was a war that we shouldn't have been in because Iraq did not knock down --

LESLIE STAHL, "60 MINUTES": Your running mate --

TRUMP: Excuse me.

STAHL: Voted for it.

TRUMP: Iraq did not knock down -- I don't care.

MATTINGLY: Despite these differences, the Indiana governor and former congressman making the case for a Trump presidency last night.

PENCE: Donald Trump gets it. He's the genuine article. He's a doer in a game usually reserved for talkers.

MATTINGLY: Declaring that the GOP ticket is an agent of change.

PENCE: Hillary Clinton wants a better title, and I would, too, if I was already America's secretary of the status quo.

MATTINGLY: A star turn for Midwestern Mike, a staunch social conservative Tea Party supporter, and devout evangelical who actually endorsed Ted Cruz before Indiana's primary. Pence catapulting onto the national stage last year after signing a religious freedom law, criticized for discriminating against gays and lesbians.

PENCE: This isn't about disputes between individuals. It's about government overreach, and I'm proud that Indiana stepped forward.

MATTINGLY: Trump applauding Pence's speech on Twitter. The GOP ticket still getting to know each other. Trump awkwardly air-kissing his running mate after his big speech. Their unity not quite the photo op moment of past Republican tickets.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MATTINGLY: And Carol, the ramifications of Donald Trump's comments on foreign policy have gone beyond Cleveland, beyond even the United States. You're now getting the international community start to weigh in. One of those Baltic countries, their president, Estonian president, Toomas Hendrik, taking to Twitter pretty quickly after this interview came out, noting that they have been completely consistent with NATO, with, quote, "no caveats throughout." So defensive there.

And also the NATO secretary-general putting out a statement saying, quote, "I will not interfere in a U.S. election campaign but what I can do is say what matters for NATO. Solidarity among allies is a key value for NATO. This is good for the European security. It's good for U.S. security. We defend one another. The United States has always stood by its European allies.

Carol, it's safe to say this particular story is not going anywhere any time soon and it's bipartisan. I've obviously heard from Democrats attacking but also have heard from a lot of Republicans. This flies in the face of traditionally Republican orthodoxy and people are nervous about the implications of this going forward -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All right, Phil Mattingly reporting live for us this morning, thank you.

With me now to talk more about this is Republican Congressman Adam Kinzinger from Illinois.

[10:25:05] Thanks for being here.

REP. ADAM KINZINGER (R), ILLINOIS: Thanks. Wow.

(LAUGHTER)

COSTELLO: It's been quite a morning, hasn't it?

KINZINGER: It has. Yes. Yes.

COSTELLO: Yes.

KINZINGER: Morning, evening, week.

COSTELLO: So --

(LAUGHTER)

COSTELLO: So let's start with Senator Cruz.

KINZINGER: Yes.

COSTELLO: Saying he's not even sure he's going to vote for Donald Trump. Certainly not going to endorse him. Held a big meeting with his delegation at a --

KINZINGER: Yes.

COSTELLO: At a breakfast meeting and riled up the crowd. Some supported him. Some did not.

KINZINGER: Yes.

COSTELLO: Your thoughts?

KINZINGER: And some -- look, there's a lot of us that have some concerns with Donald Trump and I'm sure we're going to talk about that. But for different reasons. If you're invited to speak at the convention, though, you have to endorse him. I mean, this is Donald Trump's convention. He won the primary fair and square. And I think this was -- I was blown away. I think it was ludicrous of Ted Cruz to do it. It's obviously I think political posturing for whatever comes next, that's all.

COSTELLO: So had Donald Trump asked you to speak at the convention, you would have said no?

KINZINGER: I think so. Yes. I think I would have said no. And because, look, he deserves to have who somebody that can stand up there and, you know, endorse him enthusiastically. I'll probably end up ultimately supporting him but it not overly enthusiastic so it wouldn't be fair to him and probably wouldn't be best for me to go there.

COSTELLO: So when you look at your party, is it coming apart?

KINZINGER: I don't think it's coming apart but there's a fight for the soul of it right now. As someone that's, you know, really calls myself a Republican largely because of our role in the world, that's what attracted me to this party when I was young. I have a lot of concerns. You know, discussions about what's the role of NATO. I very bluntly call this. That's a narcissistic foreign policy. It's the idea that the world needs us, we don't need the world. And it's simply untrue.

Look, without NATO we never would have defeated the Soviet Union. NATO invoked Article 5 without thinking about it really after 9/11. So the idea that, you know, we attack President Obama for saying our allies don't trust us and our enemies don't fear us, well, saying you're not going to invoke Article 5 automatically means our allies won't trust us and our enemy Russia won't fear us because they think they can march into the Baltics.

COSTELLO: Well, Paul Manafort came out a short time ago and said, you know what, Donald Trump, he meant to say he wanted to modernize NATO.

KINZINGER: This happens all the time. I mean, Donald Trump says what he thinks about NATO, which is it's obsolete, get out of it. You know, not automatic defense. And then his campaign has to clean it up later. And this is -- I think this is the problem with what we've seen the whole campaign. But regardless of what he really meant, the message that this sends to our allies goes beyond domestic politics.

This is -- this is like real people in real countries that have real problems that have real safety concerns and saying things like this is devastating.

COSTELLO: So explain it to our viewers because I'm sure, you know, some of them may not understand NATO's role and what our responsibility is to our fellow nations within NATO. So if a country is in trouble like the Baltic States, one of the Baltic States is in trouble and Russia attacks them, then the United States has to defend them.

KINZINGER: Right, yes. And so what that is, it's an Article 5 invocation. It means an attack on one is an attack on all. And that has for 50 years in the Cold War and since defended all of our countries because, look, Russia knows, and there's raw calculus on this, they know if they attack the Baltics and they have to face the might of the United States and its an allies, they won't do it. So the willingness to go to war not recklessly makes war all the less likely.

Trust me, Vladimir Putin would love to rebuild the Soviet Union, the only thing stopping him is NATO and the U.S. COSTELLO: OK. So something else that Donald Trump said in this "New

York Times" article. He said that, "The United States has no right to lecture other nations about human rights violations, not when we have people shooting police officers."

KINZINGER: You know, and that's, again, ludicrous. It's -- look, politics, and especially on foreign policy, it's not always about fairness, it's about strength and power. And look, if the United States is not writing the world on human -- writing the rules on human rights and not writing the rules on trade, somebody else will do it. It will either be Russia's version of human rights, China's version of human rights, or ISIS versions of human rights.

I think we have not just a -- it's not lecturing, it's a responsibility. With all the things we've been given, the strength, the resources, everything. Billions of people look to us for leadership. Our view of human rights is way better than other countries view.

COSTELLO: OK. So Donald Trump is going to get his big speech tonight. What can he say in that speech that will convince you to vote for Donald Trump?

KINZINGER: Well, you know, look, I was really close yesterday and then this stuff come out. I mean what I want to hear from Donald Trump -- I don't have to agree with him on everything. And I'm not going to agree with him on everything. And I'm not going to agree with him on everything.

I want a coherent view of domestic policy. You know, the need to talk about entitlement reform to get our budgets in order. And I want to hear somewhat of a coherent view on foreign policy. This stuff doesn't make me excited about that, but if, you know, it's what it comes down to. So, you know, as a Republican, you have some responsibility to your party. But I'm an American before I'm a Republican and I have to evaluate through those lenses.

COSTELLO: All right. Congressman, thanks so much for being with me this morning.

KINZINGER: You bet. Thank you.

COSTELLO: I appreciate it.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, the stakes have never higher this campaign season. So what does Donald Trump have to say to convince the rest of America that he belongs in the Oval Office? We'll talk more about that next.

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