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Early Start with John Berman and Zoraida Sambolin

Ted Cruz Refuses to Endorse Trump at RNC; Trump Wouldn't Necessarily Defend NATO Allies. Aired 4:30-5a ET

Aired July 21, 2016 - 04:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


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[04:30:43] AUDIENCE: Get out! Give him the hook! Pull the plug!

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CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN ANCHOR: Wild moments at the Republican National Convention.

Ted Cruz refusing to endorse Donald Trump for president, and the crowd goes wild. Was it sabotage? Was it treachery? Was it back-stabbing? Whatever, it was, it is making a lot of news this morning.

Welcome back to EARLY START. I'm Christine Romans.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Was it option D, all of the above?

I'm John Berman. Thirty-one minutes past the hour. Live at the CNN Grill here in Cleveland. This place, I have to say, is still buzzing.

Christine Romans wondered if it was back-stabbing. It may have been front-stabbing.

Ted Cruz on the stage, at the convention, in a prime time speaking slot, the wind of place and the kind of time you might say something nice about the nominee, you might say endorse the nominee.

Ted Cruz, he didn't do it. The crowd, they didn't like it. There was booing. There was a lot of booing. There was an enormous amount of tension and there is an enormous amount of fallout.

CNN political reporter Manu Raju joins us now, with how this all went down -- Manu.

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: Yes, that's right, John. You know, this is an issue and a moment that could have major implications on Ted Cruz's career and overshadowed Mike Pence's speech to the Republican National Convention last night.

Now, when Ted Cruz announced and began his speech, a lot of folks in that audience were waiting for that endorsement, waiting for him to talk about Donald Trump in positive terms. But he barely talked about Trump. He only said -- he only congratulated Trump for winning the Republican nomination. He continued the speech and talked about Republican issues and conservatives values, attacked Barack Obama, attacked Hillary Clinton, the crowd grew restless, booing, heckling, chants of "Lying Ted", all overshadowing Cruz's speech.

And when Cruz encouraged voters to vote their conscience in November, the crowd did not hold back.

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SEN. TED CRUZ (R), TEXAS: Stand and speak and vote your conscience. Vote for candidates up and down the ticket who you trust to defend our freedom and to be faithful to the Constitution.

(CROWD CHANTING)

We must make the most of our moment, to fight for freedom, to protect your God-given rights, even if those with whom we don't agree. We will unite the party. We will unite the country by standing together for shared values by standing for liberty.

God bless each and every one of you and God bless the United States of America.

(BOOS)

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RAJU: Now at the end of that speech, Heidi Cruz, Ted Cruz's wife, was so concerned about her safety, that she was escorted out of the venue by security officers. And a number of Cruz critics and supporters alike were warning that Cruz could face major implications and blowback that could hurt his presidential bid in 2020 when he went to go visit the billionaire Sheldon Adelson.

Immediately after that speech, Adelson wouldn't see him because he was angry at Cruz for not giving Trump that endorsement. Now, when a couple of reporters caught up with Cruz, he was unapologetic.

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REPORTER: Senator, why did you decide not to endorse Donald Trump in the end?

CRUZ: I laid out a very simple standard. We need a president who will defend (INAUDIBLE) be faithful to the Constitution. I hope very much that is who the next president will be.

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RAJU: Now, afterwards, Ted Cruz sent out a fundraising solicitation to his donors, talking about his speech. So, clearly, he thinks this is good politics -- guys.

ROMANS: All right. Manu Raju, good lines, too, this morning. I can tell you that. A lot to talk about. Thank you for that, Manu.

Joining us here at the CNN Grill to discuss all this -- CNN political analyst Josh Rogin, columnist for "The Washington Post", and our trio of political commentators, Democratic strategist Maria Cardona, former Ted Cruz communications director, whoo-hoo, Amanda Carpenter, and KABC talk radio host, John Phillips, Donald Trump supporter.

I want to quickly just say what Donald Trump tweeted, because he did respond last night, tweeting about the Cruz speech. He said, "Wow, Ted Cruz got booed off the stage. Didn't honor the pledge." That of course the pledge to support the ultimate nominee.

"I saw his speech two hours early, but let him speak anyway. No big deal."

Amanda, you actually written speeches for Ted Cruz. You know this guy. What was he thinking?

AMANDA CARPENTER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: He was thinking, I'm going to go there and make a stand for the Republicans who are very uncomfortable with the prospects of Trump as president. I mean, there's a lot of Republicans who have deep since reservations.

And the whole time, we had the never Trump phenomenon. People had been warning. Donald Trump, we're not comfortable with you. We're worried that you won't support the Constitution. We're worried about your foreign policy.

And the whole time, Donald Trump, the campaign supporters who said, shut up, get on board, you're going to get over it. And, clearly, people are not. So, Ted Cruz spoke to that sentiment.

BERMAN: Clearly, Ted Cruz is not over it. He made that very, very clear last night.

The question is, how did he get on the stage? How was it that the Trump people let him on? Did they know he was going to do this? You know, Chris Christie, a big Trump supporter, obviously very upset about it. Listen to what he said.

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GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), NEW JERSEY: I think it was awful. And quite frankly, I think it was selfish. And he signed a pledge. It's his job to keep his word.

And Donald Trump gave him the opportunity to speak here at this convention tonight and I think it was too cute, and I think you saw by the end of the speech that the crowd was waiting for him to do the right thing. And realize that once again he was going to not do it. I think the performance you saw up there is why Ted has so, so richly deserved the reputation that he's developed on Capitol Hill.

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BERMAN: Do you hear what Chris Christie is saying? Do you think Trump gave Ted Cruz an opportunity and Ted Cruz stomped all over it?

JOHN PHILLIPS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, let's be honest about what these conventions are. They no longer determine who the nominee is going to be. The nominees are determined long before the conventions actually meet.

ROMANS: Right.

PHILLIPS: What they are is they are four-day infomercials. They're television shows. We don't live in a 1980s world where we have sitcoms or soft music plays at the end of 30 minutes. We live in reality TV world.

What you saw was authenticity. Ted Cruz does not like Donald Trump. Donald Trump does not like Cruz. So, allowing reality to play out on television, I think is being honest with the audience. I think people almost expect to see that.

People don't want to see a speech where Ted Cruz goes up there and says a bunch of things that he doesn't believe. So, I understand why Ted Cruz does that from his perspective. But I also understand why Donald Trump allows it to play out that way.

It was entertaining television. People were engaged. The numbers are going to be huge.

BERMAN: It is good to talk about your feelings, really.

ROMANS: Marco Rubio, for example, he had a very -- I mean, when you contrast these two messages, it's really something.

I want you to listen to the Marco Rubio video appearance.

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SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R), FLORIDA: Donald Trump is committed to cut taxes, curb spending and get our national debt under control. Donald Trump takes seriously the threats from Islamic radicals and is committed to rebuilding our military. The time for fighting each other is over. It's time to come together and fight for a new direction for America.

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ROMANS: Time to come together. Donald Trump has the answers, Josh.

JOSH ROGIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: OK, so that video looks awful. OK, the optics of it are terrible. He looks like he's in a hostage video. I want him to show up a newspaper to show he is still alive.

But set that aside in one second. But set that aside for one second, I think Rubio made the smarter play.

I disagree with John. I don't think Cruz's speech was example of authenticity. I think it was an example of opportunism, because for the entire Trump campaign, he saved all these things, he was perfectly fine with what Trump was saying. And then when he decided it was in his interests to turn on Trump and give him his middle finger in the middle of convention, all of a sudden, he is Mr. Authentic, right?

Now, Rubio is not being authentic either because he is straddling the line, but at least he's preserving his options, right? He is looking at his election this year, and his possible run in 2020 saying, OK, I'm not going to alienate either the Trump people or the never Trump people, because nobody knows what's going to go on in 2020. It is a long time from now. Anything can happen.

And Rubio has left the playing field open and Cruz has basically alienated everybody.

BERMAN: Profiles in courage.

MARIA CARDONA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think there is another point here. If you have seen the conventions before and you know how they run, these are very scripted events, right?

[04:40:00] Of course, we're talking about Donald Trump and you talked about his authenticity, but I can almost guarantee you that Donald Trump would have preferred that didn't happen.

In any other convention, this is something that you negotiate. If he can't even negotiate for Ted Cruz to come on and either endorse him or if he is not endorsing him, to either say something nice about him, why would you let him on?

ROGIN: It is not reality TV.

(CROSSTALK)

ROMANS: Democratic talking points --

BERMAN: Brian Fallon has already tweeted that today.

CARDONA: A huge mismanagement of your own convention. If you can't manage your own convention, how will you manage the country?

BERMAN: Can I just ask -- I hadn't seen the Marco Rubio video since last night because what Ted Cruz said overshadowed everything.

But my goodness, Amanda, when you see them back-to-back, and Senator Cruz, I think must have known that Marco Rubio was going to do that. That is hardcore political positions right there that he just did. He likes beating up on Marco Rubio. We saw that in the primaries. That had to feel good.

CARPENTER: Everyone knew going into the convention some people would stay away like John Kasich and Jeb Bush, those people. Marco Rubio is going to try to split the difference. I think Ted Cruz sat about it and said, what is the principle thing to do? Should I run and hide from this problem?

Everyone can see the Republican Party is having an identity crisis. Do I address the elephant in the room? And, clearly, Ted Cruz said yes. I will confront the problem. That just makes Rubio look really wishy-washy beaming in from Florida.

ROMANS: Tonight, it's all Trump -- Trump, Trump, Trump. And you think he's going to have a good speech tonight. You think he can be -- he can retake the narrative tonight.

PHILLIPS: Right. And I think the narrative is going to go back the first night minus the Melania Trump scandal. It will go back to keeping America safe, because people do not feel safe at home. They don't feel safe economically, and Donald Trump is going to say, I'm the guy that can keep you safe.

BERMAN: We heard that from top advisers, too. They think this is a winning issue, for sure. We'll see that tonight.

ROMANS: All right. Another big controversy for NATO members. Members of NATO. Donald Trump making some surprising comments if he becomes president, the U.S. may not have your back NATO.

Plus, vice presidential candidate Mike Pence.

BERMAN: Who?

ROMANS: Yes. there's a guy named Mike Pence who was up staged last night, except for that kiss. OK, we'll talk about the kiss and we'll talk about Mike Pence and we will talk about NATO right after the break.

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[04:46:42] BERMAN: All right. Breaking overnight: new controversy as Donald Trump threatened to walk away from NATO commitments if he thinks allies under attack have not met their obligations to the United States. This as Trump's pick for vice president finally got his moment in the spotlight.

Our panel joins us to discuss this again.

Josh Rogin, I want to read to you what Donald Trump said to "The New York Times" or how "The New York Times'" Maggie Haberman and David Sanger reported. They said of Trump, "He explicitly raised questions to automatically defend NATO allies if they are attacked, saying he would first look into their contributions to the alliance. He even called into question whether as president he would automatically extend the security guarantees that give the 28 members of NATO the assurance that the full force of the United States military has their back," which is the point of NATO.

ROGIN: Right.

BERMAN: Make no mistake. This is a big deal. This would be a big shift in foreign policy.

ROGIN: It's not only that, but it calls into question every treaty and alliance agreement that the U.S. has made for the last 100 years. I mean, presidents disagree, OK? You have Democrats, you have Republicans, they have different views on America's role in the world. That is why they have treaties so these countries can make plans and they take this stuff very seriously. It is dependent on knowing the U.S. is going to do what it says, OK?

When we aggregate a treaty, that is something that we should do very carefully. And for Donald Trump to just sort of casually toss off while watching if you read the article, he's like watching TV, he's talking the phone call, he's talking about NATO. And he's not serious on the issue, but he doesn't realize that when he said these things, they have an effect.

And even if he doesn't become president, even if he doesn't do this, all of these countries are changing calculations about America's credibility based on that interview alone. That already is having an effect, and that's a problem for America and for those countries.

ROMANS: John Phillips, is he serious about this? Is this part of his make America first again or was he talking off the cuff?

PHILLIPS: Yes, if these countries stop allowing their people to retire at the ripe old age of 49, then they'll have money to pay their tab.

BERMAN: No, I mean --

ROGIN: You are being glib about international security and world peace, but it is a serious thing.

BERMAN: I understand you disagree with what Donald Trump is saying, but he is saying this. He said it before. It is a position, Amanda, that he more or less campaigned on and won on in the primaries.

CARPENTER: He staked it out. We have talked about his commitment to NATO for quite some time. Hillary Clinton has jumped on it, and other people. But for some reason, he remains undeterred. And I don't know if it is because he hasn't thought about it, or he's just really mad and NATO doesn't like it. I'd like really to hear more thoughts about it.

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CARPENTER: It is kind of insane, really, that he is such a presence in the media. We have no understanding how he has arrived at this conclusion other than he thinks America is being ripped off and I don't even know for how much --

ROMANS: You make this point that Mike Pence last night, the vice presidential candidate, by the way, Mike Pence is the vice presidential candidate. He said America would stand by its allies. So, what is the --

CARDONA: This completely contradicts that. Not only that, it highlights what has come across to those who understand what the United States role has been in the world.

[04:50:05] It comes off as vapid foreign on behalf of Donald Trump. But guess what? Politically, he has not suffered from, right? It is something that he was able to use to his advantage during the primary. But here is the problem, here is the problem we have seen in the last three days of the convention. The primaries are over.

He has got to appeal if he wants to win the White House to a broader cross section of Americans. A lot of those Americans, you talked about it today. They don't feel safe.

Well, guess what? If Donald Trump cannot articulate a coherent foreign policy that talks about America's role in the world, you're going to continue to see the addition of foreign policy experts the way we have already -- the Bush foreign policy experts, Republican foreign policy experts that have come out and say they will vote for Hillary Clinton because this guy is way too dangerous.

BERMAN: We are running out of time. We would be remiss if we didn't show the favorite moment last night. A sort of air kiss?

(CROSSTALK)

BERMAN: Let's look at this and analyze it deeply.

ROMANS: Met online on a dating site and they just had their first date?

PHILLIPS: You know what just happened? He said, I'm going to kiss your relevance good-bye.

ROMANS: Vice presidential candidate.

BERMAN: I thought it was cute. It was Donald Trump --

CARPENTER: Arranged marriages take time to warm up to each other.

ROMANS: I didn't think they know each other. I agree with you. It was cute. A lot of people talking about the moment.

CARPENTER: Trump kisses on the first date.

ROMANS: Quickly, I want to listen to something Pence said. Why he thinks he is on the ticket and what he brings to Donald Trump here. Listen.

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GOV. MIKE PENCE (R-IN), VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: You know, he is a man known for a large personality, a colorful style and lots of charisma. I guess he was just looking for some balance on the ticket.

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ROMANS: He said that he had a lot of nice things to say about Donald Trump last night. The Ted Cruz controversy, you know, his introduction to the convention overshadowed. ROGIN: Vice presidents can help their candidates three times. The

rollout, which Donald Trump messed up. The convention speech, which Ted Cruz messed up for him. And the debate. They are 0 for 2.

He has one last chance. Let's hope that Ted Cruz doesn't show up at the vice presidential debate.

(CROSSTALK)

BERMAN: I was at the focus group. They loved when Mike Pence was making the self deprecating jokes. When Mike Pence started talking about Donald Trump, they didn't buy it. They did not buy Mike Pence as a messenger for Donald Trump. I found that very, very interesting.

It may not matter. I don't think we're going to see him again. John, you are a Trump supporter. You don't think we're going to see Mike Pence again.

PHILLIPS: No, Mike Pence was going out last night to throw the fastball. He wasn't out to throw the curve ball. He wasn't out there to do anything to draw headlines. He was out to show he is a competent person, that he has a resume and qualified to be president. I think he accomplished that.

ROMANS: Maria, I think, tonight, you know, you're super delegate for Hillary Clinton, I think tonight, her opponent has the good chance of taking back the narrative, you know, if he does a good speech tonight.

CARDONA: That's a big if because what we've seen thus far is there are two speeches that Donald Trump can give. He either gives an off the cuff speech which we know will be a disaster in some way, shape or form. He'll insult somebody or who knows what it's going to be if he does that tonight. Or he will give a speech off the teleprompter which will seem awkward and not look authentic.

But I think if he can do that, and this is where I think Democrats need to be careful because Donald Trump is somebody who is benefitting from the bar of the lowest expectations. If he is able to get through a speech without stumbling on a word, without insulting anybody, people will take another look at him and be like, look, he can be presidential. And so, that's going to be something that will be interesting.

BERMAN: Tune in tonight and tune back in tomorrow. We will be discussing the Donald Trump speech. Thanks so much, guys.

Meanwhile, we are still talking about what happened. The chaos in Cleveland as Ted Cruz did not endorse Donald Trump for president and the crowd in the convention hall did not like it.

"NEW DAY" is next.

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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)

[04:58:49] GOV. MIKE PENCE (R-IN), VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: America is crying out for something new.

SEN. TED CRUZ (R), TEXAS: Stand and speak and vote your conscience.

NEWT GINGRICH (R), FORMER HOUSE SPEAKER: To paraphrase Ted Cruz, if you want to protect the Constitution of the United States, the only possible candidate this fall is Trump-Pence ticket.

GOV. RICK SCOTT (R) FLORIDA: Democrats have not led us to a cross roads. They have led us to a cliff.

GOV. SCOTT WALKER (R), WISCONSIN: Hillary, enough is enough. America deserves better.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Never have I been more proud to be a Trump.

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo and Alisyn Camerota.

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ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome to our viewers in the United States and around the world. You are watching NEW DAY. We are live from the Republican National Convention in Cleveland.

Another exciting night. Up first, what was Ted Cruz thinking last night? Cruz refused to endorse Trump, instead telling Americans to vote their conscience. That suggestion was met with thunderous booing from the crowd.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: The drama set up the highlights for Trump because he had a couple. Another son stepped up for him and delivered, as did the V.P. nominee, Governor Mike Pence.