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Cruz Refuses To Say He'll Vote For Trump; Cruz Says To Follow Your Conscience; Trump Camp Downplays Cruz Speech; Cruz Fires Back At Trump Supporters; Pence Is Confident Party Will Come Together; Rubio Backs Trump In Videotaped Message; Cruz Defends Non-Endorsement Of Trump; How Trump Would Break With NATO Tradition. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired July 21, 2016 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, I'm Wolf Blitzer. It's 1:00 p.m. here in Cleveland. Wherever you're watching from around the world, thanks very much for joining us.

Today is the final day of what has been a roller coaster Republican convention. Donald Trump will be in the spotlight as he accepts the Republican presidential nomination and makes his pitch to the American people. He'll be introduced tonight by his eldest daughter, Ivanka Trump.

But hanging over his big night is last night and the antagonizing speech by the Texas senator, Ted Cruz. Cruz was treated to a round of boos from the convention crowd when he failed to endorse Donald Trump. Cruz had several hours to stew on that reaction before taking to the microphones once again today and he did not back down.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TED CRUZ (R), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: But I will tell you, when I stood up on the big stage and they asked every candidate there, if you don't win, will you support the nominee? I raised my hand and I raised my hand enthusiastically with full intention of doing exactly that. And I'll tell you the day that pledge was abrogated -- the day that was abrogated was the day this become personal.

And as I said at the time -- and I'm not -- I'm not going to get into criticizing or attacking Donald Trump. But I'll just give you this response. I am not in the habit of supporting people who attack my wife and attack my father. And that pledge was not a blanket commitment that if you go and slander and attack Heidi, that I'm going to, nonetheless, come like a servile puppy dog and say, thank you very much for maligning my wife and maligning my father.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: And just a little while ago, our own Erin Burnett sat down with Donald Trump, Jr. to get his reaction to the Cruz complaints. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DONALD TRUMP, JR.: He is a pure politician. He tries to play the, you know, anti-establishment guy. Guess what? During his entire initial stage, he wanted to work for the Bush campaign. He wanted to do this. The problem is no one likes him. He's so unlikable. It's why so many -- literally, you do -- no fans, no friends. And he only became anti-establishment when he couldn't be a part of the establishment because he couldn't get in there because no one wanted to be with him. No one --

ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR, ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT: So, do you even want --

DONALD TRUMP, JR.: He couldn't play nice.

BURNETT: -- the endorsement, at this point?

DONALD TRUMP, JR.: I don't care. We don't need it. We got it de facto from the people that matter. Those are the voters. The people that my father's been speaking to directly.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: And like the Melania Trump speech controversy on Monday, this new Ted Cruz speech has stolen the focus from the intended message.

Joining us here in Cleveland right now, our Political Reporter Sara Murray and Sunlen Serfaty. Sara, what are you hearing, first of all, from the Trump camp in response to the Cruz -- the Cruz comments? Because this is pretty extraordinary.

SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: That's absolutely right, Wolf. Extraordinary is just the way to put it. And I think that we have seen through that Donald Trump, Jr. interview, through comments from Eric Trump last night, through Chris Christie, through Trump's own family and allies, we have seen this frustration, this disappointment, even this anger toward Ted Cruz's performance last night.

Now, they did see the remarks ahead of time, they did know, essentially, what was coming. But there was still sort of this hope that maybe Ted Cruz would come around, maybe he would offer an endorsement, or at least have nice things to say about Donald Trump. And we just really did not see any of that in Ted Cruz's speech last night.

Now, amid all of this, we have seen Donald Trump trying to downplay the controversy that Ted Cruz stirred up. And this is very normal for Donald Trump. Hates the idea of rejection by anyone. He likes to be loved, even by his former rivals. So, he took to Twitter today to really sort of bat this all back saying, other than a small group of people who have suffered massive and embarrassing losses, the party is very united, great love in the arena.

And, Wolf, it is worth noting that delegates on the floor last night, even some who were Ted Cruz supporters, were disappointed by what they heard from Ted Cruz last night.

I also talked to a number of Republican donors who aren't necessarily huge fans of Donald Trump, but they were disappointed to see Ted Cruz come out there, and they felt like he snubbed Donald Trump and snubbed the party on this national stage. So, at least in the room last night, it seems like Donald Trump did have some of the love he's indicating here on Twitter -- Wolf.

BLITZER: You know, Sunlen, Senator Cruz, obviously, was booed in the convention -- on the convention floor. He was hammered by a lot of Trump Republicans, including Texas Governor Rick Perry, New Jersey Governor Chris Christie. But has all the reaction been bad for Ted Cruz?

[13:05:02] SUNLEN SURFATY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: No, it actually hasn't, Wolf. You know, if you look at conservative outlets like "Weekly Standard", like "The National Review", if you look at how they're playing this, and they're giving Senator Ted Cruz rather glowing reviews from last night. And I think, in large part, that was part of his calculation, that there would be this group of tried and true conservatives that would be receptive to his stance and receptive to his messages last night.

You know, Cruz aides tell me that the senator was a bit surprised by the forceful pushback that he received on the floor last night and at this morning's Texas delegation meeting. And that he did want to try to defuse the situation a bit by taking questions from the delegation this morning.

And I did think that a particular sound bite that you played just moments ago where he offered something more of a personal explanation for why he did not come out and fully endorse Donald Trump, by any stretch of the imagination, saying, look, I'm not in the habit of endorsing someone that disparages my wife or my father.

Ted Cruz kind of bringing that personal explanation, I think, will go a long way. I think that has a lot of resonance going forward and I think that's what we'll continue to hear him saying -- Wolf.

BLITZER: All right, Sunlen, thanks very much. Sarah, thanks to you as well.

Let's bring in our panel to talk about the Ted Cruz-Donald Trump showdown. And it is amazing. We have our CNN Chief National Correspondent John King. He's the answer -- anchor of "Inside Politics." CNN Political Analyst David Gregory is the host of "The David Gregory Show" podcast, and Jackie Kucinich is the Washington bureau chief for "The Daily Beast."

John, you've covered a lot of these conventions. How extraordinary was what we saw last night?

JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We are supposed to be sitting here today talking about, what are the three big points Donald Trump needs to make tonight to change the election? What did we learn from Mike Pence last night about how he plans to mount this campaign? And where does the Trump campaign see the new vice presidential nominee affective on the -- we're supposed to be looking in the rear view mirror at the election that's 105 days away.

Instead, because of this feud between Donald Trump and Ted Cruz -- and it's not just personal. This is about the Republican Party. This is about the ideological focus and direction of the Republican Party.

But, instead, we're looking in the review mirror. This -- the conventions are to close the door. The first day is supposed to be slam shut the door on the primary season, move forward to the general election. No, not in Donald Trump's world. But should we be surprised? We're living in the world of the unexpected and the unconventional because we have the most unconventional candidate in our lifetimes.

BLITZER: And Cruz, this morning at this event he had with public members of the Texas delegation, he's the senator from Texas, he doubled and tripled and quadrupled down. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CRUZ: What does it say when you stand up and say, vote your conscience and rabid supporters of our nominee begin screaming, "What a horrible thing to say!" If we can't make the case to the American people that voting for our party's nominee is consistent with voting your conscience, it's consistent with defending freedom and being faithful to the Constitution, then we aren't going to win and we don't deserve to win. That's how you win elections.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: It -- you know, I mean, he's obviously not budging.

DAVID GREGORY, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: And it's so personal. He made it very clear. I mean, Donald Trump trashed his wife, trashed his father. He's made it clear he's personal. And we talk about Sarah Palin going rogue, I mean this was really going rogue.

And to John's point, there may be some unity that's come about as a result of all of this. People kind of falling behind Donald Trump. But if the big goal here was to achieve party unity, this just shows that the primary is not over. The party is divided. Trump is adding to those divisions with his comments about NATO.

And he still has a huge task tonight which is to convince more than 60 percent of the people who don't think he's prepared to be president that he is. That's a lot of work to do. And you're in charge of your convention unless you're not. And he appears to have not been in charge.

BLITZER: And, Jackie, the vice presidential Republican nominee, Mike Pence, he was responding this morning. He was on Fox. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. MIKE PENCE (R), VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMIMEE: I didn't hear all of Ted's speech. I did hear him congratulate Donald Trump.

SEAN HANNITY, ANCHOR, FOX NEWS: I think he got that out of the way right at the beginning.

PENCE: Well, on winning a hard-fought campaign. Look, this -- these are -- this was a -- this was a tough and challenging primary. These are tough competitors. And I've been through a few tough elections myself, and I know that -- I know that those feelings can be strong.

So, I was grateful that he came. I was grateful that he congratulated our nominee. And I'm absolutely confident that in the days ahead, you're going to continue to see this party come together and present the choice to the American people.

HANNITY: Well, I mean, it didn't --

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: That was about as positive a spin as you can imagine. It's very impressive.

JACKIE KUCINICH, WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF, "THE DAILY BEAST": I mean, Mike Pence basically just said, can't we all just get along? Because, ideologically, actually Mike Pence is much closer to Ted Cruz than he is Donald Trump. And he endorsed Ted Cruz. I mean, it was a little tepid but he did. And very much even when he was in Congress, it -- he was very much like Ted Cruz, not like Donald Trump.

[13:10:07] So, he probably does feel that pull. And he was even brought on the ticket to unite the Republican Party, so he's got quite a job ahead of him.

BLITZER: Marco Rubio addressed the crowd here. He wasn't here in person but via video. But he took a different tone than Ted Cruz, even though Marco Rubio lost in that Republican presidential primary contest. I'll play a little clip.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Donald Trump is committed to cut taxes, curb spending and get our national debt under control. Unlike Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton, Donald Trump takes seriously the threats from Islamic radicals and is committed to rebuilding our military. After a long and spirited primary, the time for fighting each other is over.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: So, he came via video, endorsed Donald Trump which Cruz didn't do. He's up for re-election this time.

KING: You make a key point, my friend. He's up for re-election this time. I suspect when Marco Rubio got up this morning and read "The New York Times" interview about if Russian tanks roll across Europe, whether the United States will be a -- do what it's supposed to do under the NATO treaty and defend them. Donald Trump says it kind of depends on whether or not they paid their dues. I suspect Marco Rubio probably thought, did I really want to send that video?

But you made the key point. Ted Cruz is not on the ballot this year. We'll see how this plays out when -- either in 2018 when he's up for Senate re-election or in 2020.

But Marco -- look at the Florida primary map. In Marco Rubio's home state, Donald Trump cleaned his clock. And Marco Rubio knows, I can probably win re-election but I need Trump voters. The last thing you want to do, if you look at the Florida primary, if you're Marco Rubio, he doesn't like Donald Trump. He doesn't want to be around Donald Trump. That's why he's not here. But he doesn't want to poke all Donald Trump's voters in the eyes because he needs them.

BLITZER: Among some conservative icons, if you will, he's getting praise, Ted Cruz, in the "National review" in an article entitled lion, L I O N, as opposed lying Ted L Y I N. That "Weekly Standard," Cruz makes a principled righteous gamble. "Slate," a more liberal publication, writes, Ted Cruz just made himself a conservative icon.

So, moving forward, was -- a lot of people are speculating Cruz was looking ahead if Trump loses to 2020.

GREGORY: Look, I think as I go around this convention and I talk to Republican elected officials here, there's a lot of, oh, God, I don't know. You know, what's going to -- this is a time of choosing for a lot of conservatives. A congressman said to me yesterday, we're going to have to answer the question, where were you on Donald Trump?

KUCINICH: Yes.

GREGORY: Ted Cruz answered that question for himself. Now, he may be disliked. He may be seen as a phony. But that question is going to be asked. And if -- and if Trump loses and loses badly, there will be questions for those other conservatives who felt the need to fall in line. And they'll be a real split about that as there is now. This is not a united party. What passes for unity is literally calling for the imprisonment of Hillary Clinton.

BLITZER: The never Trump movement faded but there still are elements, influential elements, among Republicans who can't stomach the thought of having Trump as their nominee.

KUCINICH: Well, absolutely. Cruz has a foundation within this very convention. Yes, this is Donald Trump's coronation but look at the platform, look at the rules. That is Ted Cruz. That is very conservative in doctrine that's woven through. So, yes, that felt to me like Cruz 2020, the building blocks of that last night.

KING: And don't rule out if Trump wins, that Cruz won't challenge in the primaries in 2020. I would not take that off the table. But what he did last night -- we'll see if it plays out. What he did last night was give a green light to never Trump voters. Don't accept the pressure to vote for Trump. Now, will that matter in Texas? No. Might it matter in a battleground state like Virginia? Maybe.

GREGORY: Or how about in Ohio? How about in Florida? Right, I mean --

KUCINICH: Right.

BLITZER: All right, guys, there's lots to -- lots more to assess, guys. Thanks very, very much.

The fallout coming fast and furious after Cruz's decision not to endorse Donald Trump. So, did he wreck his chances for a future presidential run? We're going to talk about that with one of Ted Cruz former key staffers.

Also, Donald Trump making waves before stepping on the stage tonight, his new comments about making NATO allies pay up and why it's a very different vision than the one laid out by his own choice for vice president. Stay with us.

[13:14:19]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:18:13] WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back. We're here at the Republican National Convention at the CNN GRILL. A defiant Ted Cruz is defending his decision not to endorse Donald Trump during that prime time speech last night. Instead, the Texas senator and former presidential candidate urged Republicans to vote, "Their conscience."

Let's bring in Alice Stewart, our CNN political commentator now and a former Ted Cruz communications director. First of all, welcome to CNN as a new CNN political commentator. Was all of this about 2020 Ted Cruz looking ahead to a possi -- if let's say if Donald Trump loses, maybe he's set the stage for another effort at the Republican presidential nomination?

ALICE STEWART, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: No. I mean, this was about -- he started it out last night talking about first of all, you know, people forget he congratulated Donald Trump for his victory and he called for people to vote their conscience. And, you know, that was the takeaway from last night.

BLITZER: Why couldn't he simply say, as Marco Rubio said, "I support Ted Cruz." I mean, it was nice that Donald Trump invited him to come here, very gracious. He invited him to come and everybody was sort of expecting they would get some sort of endorsement.

STEWART: It was extremely generous to have the invitation and without a doubt. And it was a great venue and a great forum, this is been a phenomenal convention, they've done a great job. But at the same time, when the initial offer was made, there was never any exchange of, look, you can speak as long as you endorse.

That was never in the initial conversation. They spoke the other day. The Cruz campaign made it clear that they were not going to endorse. And when they saw the speech two hours prior to giving the speech, they saw that it wasn't going to happen. So they knew that there was not going to be an endorsement. Obviously, understandably, they're frustrated the way things have come to play, but the point of his speech was to help unify people. Wolf, you know, you recall back in '76 when Reagan gave his speech for Gerald Ford, he didn't endorse. He called for unity, let's unify and come together. And that's part of Ted's message last night and he will continue to do so and try and help.

[12:20:11] BLITZER: You think between now and November 8th, Ted Cruz will formally endorse him? Come around and say -- I think last night he said he doesn't want Hillary Clinton to be president of the United States.

So the only other realistic option would be Ted, why not -- would not be Ted Cruz Donald Trump, why not Ted Cruz formally endorse him?

STEWART: Well, there's no statute of limitations on when you can or cannot give an endorsement and that's important to keep in mind. As he said, like a lot of people, they're still listening and looking and watching what Donald Trump is going to do. And he will want to hold his feet to the fire on issues that are important to him. Such as protecting the constitution, our freedoms, life, liberty and marriage, and that's what he was doing and ...

BLITZER: This morning he said -- Ted Cruz said it was also personal. It was very ugly that exchange -- those exchanges that Ted Cruz and Donald Trump had during the campaign. And Ted Cruz this morning said, "Look, what he said about my wife, look what he said about my father. Do you think I can go ahead and endorse someone like that?"

STEWART: Well, I think a lot of men -- I would hope a lot of men would be the same way in terms of if someone is critical to your wife like that and says such things about your father that he killed J.F.K, not to mention you also can't forget Donald Trump repeatedly called to question Ted's citizenship and whether or not he was qualified to be president and it took us weeks and weeks to fight out of that.

BLITZER: So, it is really personal for Ted Cruz?

STEWART: Sure. But at the same time, it's -- there are principles and what he did last night, as he has said, he's standing on principles, calling for conservatives as he said to vote their conscience and unite the party by standing behind and uniting on your values. But at the same time, he was standing for his principles, it got personal since they took that pledge and last night in the speech, he's not so much about politics. But it's about principles and the fact that this has become personal.

BLITZER: You're right at that but Ted Cruz did raise, you know, did make the pledge of that. One of those first Republican debates saying whoever the Republican nominee is, he will vote for him, support him, and the accusation is he's betraying his own word.

STEWART: As he has said numerous times, and Donald Trump has part -- previously said that he would, you know, go back if certain things happen with regards to the pledge. But the takeaway that Ted made last night is that the policies of Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama, we cannot have those anymore and it's time for the conservatives to unify.

BLITZER: And here you see Donald Trump, his arriving at the convention right here, they called it the Q, the Quicken Loans Arena. He's going to simply walk around and get a little sense to Ivanka Trump, his daughter, his eldest daughter is with him right now. They're going to be checking out the stage. Ivanka Trump will speak tonight, she will introduce her father. She's very impressive in her own right as all of us know and they're going to get a little sense of the stage there tonight.

Most of the speakers like to do that coming in earlier in the afternoon and getting a little sense. There you see Paul Manafort, the Trump campaign Chairman, he's walking in as well. This is going to be a really significant moment for Donald Trump tonight, his big speech, we're going to watch that unfold clearly.

You know Alice, as you see this going on, you worked for Ted Cruz on his presidential campaign, you worked for Mike Huckabee at one point at his presidential campaign. You've worked on a several presidential campaigns. For Donald Trump right now, this is going to be one of the most important nights of this whole campaign, the speech he delivers tonight, to the American people.

STEWART: Absolutely, without a doubt. And what we see them doing there, as you know as referred to the walk through where they get a sense of the stage and the lighting and the microphone and how to project his voice because he's an expert speaker and he's given many speeches. But this is important to just get a sense of the stage.

And without a doubt, tonight's speech and the theme behind it, "Make America Great Again," and what I think it's going to be so great tonight. Donald has said this from the very beginning and his brand has been "Make America Great Again."

Tonight's speech is his way to tie a bow around it and bring the party together. And I think there's going to be certainly a phenomenal speech, really reaching out to the people in this room and across the country. We'll have a -- I'm sure the ratings will be through the roof. But it will be his chance to show his contrast between his policies, his views for envision for the future in contrast with Hillary Clinton which everyone in that room across the street in terms of the delegates acknowledge that his policies will, as he has said, "Make this country great again," as opposed to Hillary Clinton.

BLITZER: We'll see if he walks out on the stage. We'll have coverage of that at Donald Trump. It's like the secret service guys they're moving around over there right now, he'll be walking up to that stage. I wanted to get a little flavor of what's going on.

Let's take a quick break. We'll come back to these live pictures as soon as we do. Donald Trump certainly known for his showmanship so what should we expect from his speech tonight? Much more on that.

[13:25:09] Will he say anything about Ted Cruz? So we'll ask one of Donald Trump's senior advisers. That's next, we're also standing by to see Donald Trump and Ivanka Trump on the stage getting a little sense of what's going on.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Donald Trump, now on the stage here at the Republican National Convention, at the Quicken Loans Arena. He's there with his eldest daughter Ivanka Trump. She's going to be introducing him tonight.

Kellyanne Conway is with us, she's a senior campaign advisor to the Trump campaign. You look at these pictures Kellyanne, walk us through this process. You did this yesterday with Mike Pence.

KELLYANNE CONWAY, TRUMP'S SENIOR CAMPAIGN ADVISOR: I did and it's usually a pretty brief process, Wolf. It's just getting you comfortable with where the stage will be set up, obvious where the teleprompters are. But it's very typical for campaigns also to practice with the teleprompter outside of the convention hall.

It's a semi-public opening right now. You have cameras there obviously, there are journalists watching them. So it's not that he's going to go through his whole script here but just maybe practice the cadence in your head, a little bit go through some of the lines you know where you're going to hesitate for effect. Do you think they're going to be great to pause lines.

And of course, as you see a very -- a special partnership right there between Ivanka Trump and her dad. She's worked really hard on her speech. I've seen it. It's a masterpiece. It's very much within her own voice. I think that America is going to fall in love with Ivanka Trump tonight.

BLITZER: She's 34-years-old and extremely impressive woman. She's going to be -- obviously, they're both going to be reading speeches carefully scripted, carefully drafted speeches on those teleprompters.

[13:30:09] CONWAY: They are. And, you know, in the case of Ivanka, obviously she's introducing her father. Normally introductions like the one you saw from Speaker Ryan or Mike Pence, his former colleague last night. They're very warm but they tend to be a little bit biographical and maybe one or two anecdotes. This is his daughter but Ivanka is also his co-worker --