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Interview With Former U.S. Senator Rick Santorum; Russia Meddling in U.S. Election?; Democratic National Convention Begins. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired July 25, 2016 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:50]

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, here we go, top of the hour. I'm Brooke Baldwin here in the Wells Fargo Arena in Philadelphia. It's the 2016 Democratic National Convention day number one.

And checking my clock, we're just an hour away from the official opening of the event, the proceedings, the gaveling in. Hillary Clinton gets her chance this week to respond to Donald Trump, Hillary Clinton poised to become the first woman to headline a major party's presidential ticket.

And, tonight, have you seen the speaker list? Some powerful speakers due to take to this podium to address the Democratic faithful, from the darling of the left, liberal hero Elizabeth Warren, to first lady of the United States Michelle Obama, and Clinton's former rival who has now endorsed her, Senator Bernie Sanders.

But, already, even though the theme tonight is united together, we are seeing party unity getting hammered on multiple fronts this afternoon. The loudest example happening just a little more than an hour ago at this Bernie Sanders event. He spoke to a large room packed with his supporters and directed them to do what is really the essence and spirit of this convention, to support Hillary Clinton and Tim Kaine.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (VT-I), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We have got to defeat Donald Trump.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

SANDERS: And we have got to elect Hillary Clinton and Tim Kaine.

(BOOING)

SANDERS: Brothers and sisters -- brothers and sisters, this is -- this is the real world that we live in. He has insulted Mexicans and Latinos. He has insulted Muslims. He has insulted women and African-Americans.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BALDWIN: Clearly, so many people in this country and

specifically those here in Philadelphia, they still want Bernie. And ladies and gentlemen, it's just day one of the DNC.

Now, this outgoing chair of the Democratic National Committee who is responsible for all of this here, for this entire week, Debbie Wasserman Schultz, she will not gavel in as initially scheduled. She won't speak. Wasserman Schultz no doubt felt the pressure to step away after e-mails leaked revealed some of her top staff showing favoritism against Senator Bernie Sanders during primary season.

So, for that part of the story, let's begin with CNN's Sunlen Serfaty.

Do we know -- I was talking to Brian Fallon with the Hillary camp and he said it was her decision. What more do you know?

SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Brooke, it certainly was. And it definitely, I can say, no question, was turning into something of more of a potential distraction for Democrats, and Debbie Wasserman Schultz admitting that she kind of felt the pressure here, faced that intense scrutiny and backlash over the e-mail controversy.

She spoke earlier this afternoon with her local hometown newspaper and she said, look, I just wanted to be able to start the convention off on a high note, so thus she is not gaveling in. That to me was the most blatant admission on her part that she was, indeed, turning into something of a distraction for the Democrats and that admission really coming just hours after she had that really brutal welcoming at a breakfast this morning here in Philadelphia with her Florida delegation, I should add, where half the room of course did cheer her and said Debbie, Debbie, Debbie.

[15:05:10]

But there was a loud and vocal other half of the room that was yelling things like shame, shame, shame over and over again. It was quite the chaotic scene. Here's just a small part of it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. DEBBIE WASSERMAN SCHULTZ (D), FLORIDA: First of all, I want to ask everybody to join me in acknowledging that we had a tragic shooting in Fort Myers just yesterday, where there were children who were in harm's way and people lost their lives.

(BOOING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SERFATY: So, Debbie Wasserman Schultz there really trying to regain control of that room and she ignored reporters' questions as she left. All of this, it is a mark of irony here, Brooke, that all of this is going down the day that the Democrats are trying to focus on unity. Unity is their theme for the speakers tonight. You have Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, Michelle Obama and

certainly this is not the backdrop, not the foot that they want to start their convention off on -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: Again, just remind everyone Bernie Sanders set to speak tonight in prime time. We will listen for his message and for any potential boos as well.

Sunlen, thank you so much.

So you have the Dems, but of course on the Republican side, we will call it the counterprogramming, the Trump counterprogram, it is beginning today as well. Donald Trump and his running mate, Governor Mike Pence, moments away from speaking at a town hall in Roanoke, Virginia, followed by a rally this evening in Winston-Salem, North Carolina.

Mr. Trump for his part enjoying a nice post-convention bounce when you look the new CNN/ORC poll showing him leading Clinton by six points.

On all things Republican, let's go to Jason Carroll, who is in Roanoke, where Trump and Pence are set to speak.

Do we know what the plan is for today, for the rest of the week?

JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, here's what I can tell you about today

A town hall is scheduled to get under way in just about a few minutes from now. In fact, Trump was expected with Pence just about 15 minutes ago, so he's running just a little bit behind.

About 1,500 people here in the room. Initially, we were told, Brooke, it might be Q&A, maybe not. We're a little unsure at this point. But with the Trump campaign, you just have to sort of roll with it. That's how it goes.

One thing I can tell you, what you can expect here in this room tonight, a lot of gloating. The camp is -- the Donald Trump camp is feeling very good about the bounce they got after the convention, as you know, up by some six points or so. I spoke to one GOP operative who put it to me this way.

He said, look, this is going to help in terms of a number of things. It's going to help in terms of fund-raising. That's first. Second, it's going to help in terms of the platform. Many critics who have been out there pointing out and taking issue with some of the things Trump has said about NATO, about building the wall, about the ban on Muslims.

Going forward, this is going to give the campaign more momentum, given what they feel is a mandate, they feel, by the people. But one thing that they're going to be looking at very closely in terms of what has happened on the inside here, this is what happened in '08. If you look at what happened with McCain and the bounce he got

after the GOP Convention -- and that was in convention, much closer to the general election -- he was up by some five points. So they're looking at this very, very closely.

McCain, as you know, was up by five points. We all know what happened there. Obama ended up beating him. So, up by six points this go-around, they're very happy about it. They expect Trump to gloat about it when he takes the stage here just a few minutes from now, but still watching things very, very closely -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: All right. We will take it. We will take it when it happens, Jason Carroll. For now in Roanoke, thank you.

With me now, CNN political commentators Charles Blow, op-ed columnist for "The New York Times." I have Bill Press with me, author of "Buyer's Remorse: How Obama Let Progressives Down," and Ana Navarro, a Republican strategist.

Happy Philadelphia to all of you on this Monday afternoon. It's great to be here. It was great to be in Cleveland and now here

Charles Blow, to you first, on really the big piece of news with Debbie Wasserman Schultz. Just when we're finally deciding it was apparently her decision to bow out from the gaveling and the speaking, Stephanie Rawlings-Blake replacing her. Thoughts?

CHARLES BLOW, "THE NEW YORK TIMES": I don't think she had a choice. At a certain point, she was going to be a distraction in this convention.

BALDWIN: Already started to be a little bit.

BLOW: What is that?

BALDWIN: Already started to be.

BLOW: Absolutely.

Both in the piece before this, her speech, Bernie's speech, people very upset about that, it feeds that particular narrative. I think you left-wing always, no matter who you are, which party you're with -- you have to stand up for integrity.

[15:10:00]

And those -- some of those e-mails and some of those officials lacked that basic integrity. I understand that in a large organization there will be people who have preferences, political preferences, but if the sole purpose of your organization is to remain neutral, you have to check that at the door.

And if you're not checking it at the door, and, in fact, if you are trying to figure out ways to influence other people's opinions about those candidates, then that's a problem. And it starts at the top. And it's hers to take, she had to take it. She had to fall on the sword, and she did it, and I think that that was the right move to make.

BALDWIN: Yes. Yes. She's out after this week.

We mentioned the boo fest times two today. Also your guy, Bernie Sanders, listen, he's trying to get his loyal soldiers to support Tim Kaine and Hillary Clinton, but the boos were cacophonous.

The biggest thing, Bill Press, I have been struck walking around down Philly is everyone in Bernie schwag.

BILL PRESS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I have been impressed by that. I have been pleased by that.

BALDWIN: That's not good for Hillary Clinton.

PRESS: Yes, it is. They're here and part of the process and I think it's very healthy.

But I think we all have to realize -- my hotel, across the street is a Quaker meeting house. I just walked out of the hotel yesterday. I walked into the Quaker meeting house, which is usually a very silent place of thoughtful prayer. It was a Bernie Sanders rally going on.

BALDWIN: No kidding.

PRESS: So, Bernie is like all over this place.

But we have to realize there are a lot of Bernie supporters here, there are a lot of Bernie delegates here. They're not necessarily the same. They're like the Sandernistas, I might call them. That's who we saw at that rally.

(CROSSTALK)

ANA NAVARRO, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, Bill, I fled the Sandinistas. Don't scare me.

(LAUGHTER)

PRESS: I'm sorry.

If you look in that room, I would defy you to count how many delegates are in that room. Bernie will be much better received tonight in this hall when he says, which he will, I endorse Hillary Clinton and Tim Kaine. You have to do the same. We have to elect her. That's his message.

I understand some of these kids, they may not but be ready, there yet, but they're not going to for Donald Trump.

BALDWIN: The Clinton camp was saying to me last hour, listen, it's just like people with tears in their eyes when Hillary had to bow out eight years ago. And he was saying, it takes these supporters a little longer than the candidates themselves.

But you, Ms. Navarro, are you loving this? Drama here day number one

NAVARRO: Honestly, I can't stop watching; 2016 is a TV reality show.

BALDWIN: Crazy.

NAVARRO: And every episode gets more exciting, crazier. It's a roller coaster ride with twists and turns and ups and downs. And just when you think the ride is about to come to an end, about to slow down, it plunges down again and you're careening your neck.

Look, this is crazy what's going on here. I have got to tell you, I think Debbie Wasserman Schultz did the right thing. She did the right thing not only for Democrats. I know Debbie. Debbie is from South Florida. Debbie has a primary race. Absentee ballots start going out in Florida this week. The primary race, the primary election is a month away.

Debbie -- the optics of this booing by the Florida delegation by the floor here are just horrible for anybody running on the ballot. Remember, she's not just the chair of the DNC. She is also a congresswoman, a well-regarded, well-respected congresswoman, but she's got a real primary in Florida.

She's doing the right thing. Go home, girl and focus, laser focus on your race, because you have got some repair work to do.

BALDWIN: Also looking at you and thinking of Trump.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: You have not been shy in your lack of love for him. But you saw the convention bounce, the five, six points that he got. I mean, is it possible -- you said -- what was it? I was watching you last Thursday night that it was a disgrace, his speech, or it was despicable. Fill in your pejorative adjective. Were you wrong?

NAVARRO: Well, I think I saw a different speech than a lot of America did.

And, by the way, that's how it is. I think America is very polarized right now, and some people found Trump's speech disturbing, just pessimistic and dark. Some people, I think it spoke to them. I also think it helped that we here in this period of angst, that we're seeing all this unrest and turmoil in Europe and around the world just after his convention speech.

So I think there is no doubt that Donald Trump speaks to part of America. He doesn't speak...

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: I know you want to jump in, but actually let me go to Miguel Marquez, because a lot of these Bernie, fervent Bernie supporters, they have been marching around city hall. And I think they're headed down toward us. Miguel Marquez, can you hear me? Tell me many people you see and

who are they.

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I can hear you. It's several hundred in this group. There are a few hundred up ahead of where we are at Marconi Particular, and then there are several hundred more still all the way back at city hall.

I want to show you a little bit of this. It's basically everyone. It's Bernie Sanders supporters. It's Hillary Clinton haters. I mean, they are chanting -- one of the big chants today was hell no, DNC, we will not vote for Hillary.

[15:15:00]

It's also the Dem exits of people who are here. They said they will absolutely leave the Democratic Party if Bernie Sanders is not put at the top of the ticket. They are now coming to Marconi Park, where only a few blocks now from where the DNC, where you are, where the DNC is being held.

And it is not clear how it's going to go. I had a chance to talk to Richard Ross, the police commissioner, here in Philadelphia, who was out here. I will say, the police are following along here. Everybody is boisterous, but they are playing by the rules so far.

Richard Ross said they are prepared for whatever might be coming. They don't know if they are going to get 50,000 protesters today. But they are prepared for it. And so far, the police told -- the biggest concern is the heat. Everybody is soaked through with sweat -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: Miguel Marquez, thank you very much.

NAVARRO: Remember when we were expecting these scenes in Cleveland and nothing happened.

BALDWIN: I know. We all were holding our collective breaths over Cleveland.

You wanted to say something.

(CROSSTALK)

PRESS: Yes, I wanted to get back to the Donald Trump bounce first.

But, again, this is great, and these are people interested in the issues and willing to go out on a hot day like this and protest for the issues, but I don't you can identify with all the people who voted for Bernie Sanders in the primaries who are part of the Democratic Party, who are part of the caucuses and the primaries and who will follow Bernie's lead.

Eighty percent of them, so far from the polls we have seen, have said they're going to vote for Hillary. They are not going to vote for Donald Trump.

BLOW: But it's also important to remember what the issues are here, what these e-mails say and what Trump actually don't say.

There's no indications so far in what has been released that the Hillary campaign was coordinating with the DNC in any way. There's no indication that the DNC had success in the suggestions that they made about trying to influence coverage. None of that is in there.

And, in fact, when you look at the overall landscape -- I have so many problems with the Democratic nominating process. If you look at the overall landscape of that, it actually tilted towards helping Bernie more than it hurt him, because the Democratic process has for more caucuses than the Republican process does.

Caucuses are inherently undemocratic, because they actually hurt the very people that Bernie wants to help or says he wants to help, which is poor people, people who cannot afford to have health care, to take care of kids and be at a place at one time at six or seven hours at a time.

BALDWIN: You don't see favoritism, which is what Bernie Sanders has said all along?

(CROSSTALK)

BLOW: One second.

What I see is a process that's rife with issues that could be improved. And some of them seem to tilt towards Clinton and some of them seem to tilt towards Bernie.

PRESS: I really strongly disagree. The process was rigged against Bernie. He was right when he said that, number one.

(CROSSTALK)

BLOW: I think when you say that and when he says that, it's a destructive thing for the Democratic Party.

(CROSSTALK)

PRESS: I would like to point out the ways in which you're wrong.

(CROSSTALK)

PRESS: Just quickly, right, the superdelegates, it's crazy. Even Hillary doesn't like the superdelegates. They have a power that they should not be able to have.

BLOW: I don't like them.

PRESS: And then, secondly, the closed primaries, they worked totally against Bernie Sanders. Sure, there were caucuses, but the closed primaries, where independents couldn't vote, where new voters couldn't vote, that really hurt Bernie. And in the e-mails, it shows the DNC was coordinating with the

Clinton campaign on the fund-raising. They were raising money for the DNC.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Let me just jump in.

(CROSSTALK)

BLOW: And I have written about that.

(CROSSTALK)

NAVARRO: ... fascinating about this is the timing. We have known for two months that the DNC had been hacked. They sat on these things and wait until three days before the convention.

(CROSSTALK)

NAVARRO: Maximum drama.

BALDWIN: Exactly.

On that, and I'm listening to all of you, but I'm trying to listen to my control room to tell me to go to Jessica Schneider, who apparently is outside with more protesters.

Jessica, set the scene.

JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Brooke, quite a scene out here.

For the past half-hour, the protesters out here have actually been storming up to the gates. Now, these are the gates separating FDR Park and the protesters from the actual convention center, so you can see this gate right here, Bernie supporters lining up to shout to the delegates and anyone else who might be walking into the Convention Center here.

So, as these people walk by, the crowd gets louder and louder right now. There's a little bit of a lull, but you can hear, they will start to fire up as soon as somebody walks by. They're chanting Bernie and yelling that to the people walking inside.

Let's take a look down this way. We will walk down this way. You can see the line of the protesters here getting rowdier as people walk by. If you can see just past the gates there, that's where the convention will be taking place inside the Wells Fargo Center.

These protesters have been permitted. They have been here since yesterday. We saw them yesterday marching down from city hall. They're mostly camped out in FDR Park, which is right across the way. All of a sudden at about 3:00 they said let's make our way as these delegates and other people start walking into the Convention Center.

[15:20:05]

They have been pretty much diligently chanting Bernie, as well as DNC, never Hillary. So a lot of anger that's been brewing out here. Nothing violent. Police are letting these protesters have their say, but they have got quite loud and making their voices heard to everybody walking in on the other side of these gates.

You can see a little bit more of a crowd now, but these people are loud, but they are not being let anywhere near the other people who are walking into the Convention Center. And they say that they will be out here as people continue to walk in, just making their voices heard as they have been for about the past day -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: Wow. All right, it's hot out there. Just add that in. I hope -- love that they're allowed to be out there. Get them some water, though. It's not a pretty picture in Philadelphia, but they have the right to stand there and protest and to speak up, as they have today on day one.

And, again, just a reminder to all of you, we're covering this whole thing for you inside and out, and Senator Bernie Sanders himself has the stage this evening. We will be listening for his message that he will be speaking not only to the people in this room, but those folks outside as well.

Charles and Bill and Ana, thank you all so much.

And we're going to move on. Coming up next here on CNN, is Russia trying to specifically meddle within this presidential election here in the States? New information about who is behind the hacking of the DNC, as we were discussing.

Also ahead, Donald Trump, just a reminder, he's set to speak any moment, Roanoke, Virginia, to counter the start. Here's Mike Pence up to the podium to counter the Democratic Convention. We will dip in, in just a moment on a wild only. Stay here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:26:06]

BALDWIN: And 20,000 e-mails published by WikiLeaks, some 8,000 additional attachments all appearing to reveal plans by the Democratic National Committee to undermine senator Bernie Sanders.

But really the question is, who is behind the attack? Who is responsible?

I can tell you that right now we're hearing FBI is honed in on Russia.

Let's go to our justice correspondent in Washington, Evan Perez, and live from Moscow, Jill Dougherty, International Center for Defense and Security.

So welcome to both of you. And, Evan, before we talk about the DNC hack, what about the RNC?

Have the Russians or anyone tried to hack the RNC?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brooke, we know that the Russians and the Chinese and others have been trying to get into this type of information from other campaigns, from the RNC, from the two major political campaigns, as well as some of the others.

And what we know so far is that there's no indication of any breach at the RNC or anywhere. Now, as far as the DNC hack, there's strong evidence that indicates it is the work of Russian intelligence. And officials tell me that the evidence that the FBI has collected points to at least one group of hackers that is familiar to U.S. counterintelligence.

Now, this is the same group that was involved in hacking into non-classified e-mail systems at the State Department and at the White House and at other federal agencies. Now, the investigators believe that Russian intelligence is behind a wave of cyber-attacks on political organizations and even think tanks here in Washington.

Now, we know that what happened over the weekend is that WikiLeaks released, as you said, 20,000 of these e-mails. What we don't know is where they got it from. And we don't know whether or not the Russians did this, if it's indeed the Russians that did it, whether they did this because they wanted Donald Trump.

This is obviously at the top of the minds of the FBI investigators that are now looking at this, Brooke.

BALDWIN: If, Jill, it is Russia, the question is why. What would the motivation be and how is Moscow reporting -- responding to the allegations?

JILL DOUGHERTY, WOODROW WILSON INTERNATIONAL CENTER FOR SCHOLARS: There's kind of a non-response, really, the Kremlin not really touching it.

Dmitry Peskov, who is a spokesperson for the president, said he would have no comment, but he did refer to Donald Trump Jr.'s comments which said essentially it's a lie. I think you would have to say -- you got the technical thing that we were just hearing about.

And then you have the why, and I think that is the more interesting part of it. What would it do? Why would Russia want to do this, if they are? It obviously damages the Democratic Party. It obviously damages Hillary Clinton.

Does it really help Donald Trump? Well, because it hurts her, it might help him. But does it directly help him? Not necessarily. In fact, being perceived as someone who is being aided by Vladimir Putin in this political context might be bad.

There's another idea, too, here, Brooke, which could be, the Russians blame the United States for interfering in their politics, both here in Russia and around the former Soviet Union. And there are some experts who were thinking, maybe this is a kind of payback to show, yes, you kind of muck around in our business. We can do the same to you. That could be part of it.

BALDWIN: All right, Jill Dougherty thank you. Evan Perez, thank you.

Let me bring in a man I didn't think I would necessarily see in Philadelphia. He's Rick Santorum, former Republican U.S. senator for the great state here of Pennsylvania, former presidential candidate.

I kept bumping into you in Cleveland.

RICK SANTORUM (R), FORMER U.S. SENATOR: Good to see you. Yes.

BALDWIN: Good to see you here in your home state.

SANTORUM: Great to be here. The people in Philly have been great.

BALDWIN: This is your first DNC. How is that going?

SANTORUM: It is my first DNC. And, like I said, I have been doing a lot of selfies and, you know, sort of the unicorn here at the convention.

BALDWIN: Yes, behind enemy lines.

SANTORUM: Yes, right.

BALDWIN: Let's get straight to it.

Russia, and, you know, based upon the changed language in the Republican platform last week, more sort of pro-Putin, and then what Trump said to "The New York Times" about NATO