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Sources: FBI Investigating Hack of Clinton Campaign; Trump Using Sanders to Attack Clinton; Sources: FBI Investigating Hack of Clinton Campaign; Interview with Rev. William Barber; Bloomberg Slams Trump: "Let's Elect a Sane Person".. Aired 7-8p ET

Aired July 29, 2016 - 19:00   ET


[19:00:10] KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: OUTFRONT next, breaking news. Sources say the FBI is now investigating a hack at the Clinton campaign. Is Russia behind it?

Plus, Trump and Clinton kicking off the final phase of this election both taking the stage tonight. So, who has the upper hand?

And Clinton and Bernie Sanders, they found unity, but Sanders supporters are still protesting on the convention floor. Can Clinton win without them? Let's go OUTFRONT.

Good evening, everyone. I'm Kate Bolduan in for Erin Burnett tonight.

OUTFRONT tonight, the breaking news. Sources tell CNN the FBI is investigating a hack at the Clinton campaign. The cyber-attack reaching other Democratic Party organizations as well including the DNC and the party's Congressional Campaign Committee, this as Hillary Clinton and Tim Kaine are preparing to take the stage together in Pennsylvania. Donald Trump held a rally in Denver just moments ago attacking Clinton with the crowd, getting into it, as well. Listen.



DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: You know what? I've been saying -- I've been saying let's just beat her in the November race, but you know what? No. No. You know what? I'm starting to agree with you, I'll tell you.

Every time I mention her, everyone screams "lock her up, lock her up, lock her up" they keep screaming.


BOLDUAN: We'll get in that in a second. But I do want to get back tonight to the breaking news with Jim Sciutto, he's OUTFRONT with much more on this news cyber-attack at the Clinton campaign. He's getting more details on it. Jim, what do you know about this attack? What are you hearing?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kate, this is proving to be in a very expansive attack. We already knew that it touched the DNC, touched them, the D triple C, the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee opening up to a whole host of democratic candidates around the county. Now, the Clinton campaign, to be clear the Clinton campaign says that this is a voter analytic tool, one that's actually shared by other candidates.

They say no internal systems were affected, but the fact is targeting the Clinton campaign, accessing data that's important to the Clinton campaign and the one common thread throughout this, Kate, although they have not been identified publicly, a source is telling us repeatedly that Russia is the most likely actor here. So, this gets to the question of motivation and an attempt to influence the election and an attempt perhaps to embarrass the U.S. political process. You know, all of those are potentially bad things and it's something that U.S. officials are taking very seriously care tonight.

BOLDUAN: And what are you hearing from your sources? Are they being careful to say these are three separate attacks that look similar or are all signs pointing that they are linked?

SCIUTTO: The former phrasing, attacks that looks similar and that's why they're looking at them in the same way, but because they look similar and keep in mind when we say similar that's both digital fingerprints --


SCIUTTO: You know, the coding and so on, but also it's the m.o. It's the way they were carried out and the target, et cetera and that fits a pattern for specifically Russian intelligence services and also the timing of these attacks linked them, as well. No final word on it, the FBI is still looking into it, but there is strong evidence linking it to Russia.

BOLDUAN: And Jim, I know you've had an opportunity to speak to the director of National Intelligence about this. Do you get the sense that think they're ever going to get to a point where they can say this is the motive behind the attack with certainty?

SCIUTTO: No. They may very well get to the point where they publicly identify Russia although they haven't done that even with previous attacks where they've had very good confidence --


SCIUTTO: But in terms of motivation and I asked Director Clapper just yesterday when I had a chance to speak with him is that listen, I can't see inside Vladimir Putin's mind and oftentimes he's surprised the U.S. And it's been very difficult to predict, but again, they connect the dots here and they know that Russia believes we tried to affect their political system, tried to spark Democratic protests et cetera in Ukraine and elsewhere, they believe that. So they believe this kind of attack on the U.S. is fair game. For them it's another front and it's not a war, a competition between the two countries.

BOLDUAN: It sure seems that this is something that goes far beyond partisan politics or at least should. SCIUTTO: Absolutely.

BOLDUAN: We'll going to talk about that in just a second. Jim, thanks so much.

SCIUTTO: Thank you.

BOLDUAN: Let's stick though to Jim. There could be more details coming up about this any minute now. Let's go to our Brianna Keilar though who is OUTFRONT with the Clinton campaign in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania tonight. Brianna, what's the campaign saying about this hack?

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Kate, Hillary Clinton is travelling. Press Secretary just putting out a statement that says, to explain some of this in part. It says, an analytics stated program maintained by the DNC and used by our campaign and a number of other entities was accessed as part of the DNC hack. It says, our campaign computer system has been under review by outside cyber security experts and this is key, it says, today, they have found no evidence that our internal systems have been compromised. Of course, many questions still remaining about this, but Kate, this is happening as Hillary Clinton is taking her message from the convention on the road as she's trying to get a bounce in the polls against Donald Trump.


[19:05:16] HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I don't know about you, but I stayed up really late last night. It was just hard to go to sleep.

KEILAR (voice-over): After making her pitch to the nation, Hillary Clinton now has to sell it aggressively until Election Day.

CLINTON: You listened really closely to the Republican convention, you know that Donald Trump talk, for 75 minutes and did not offer one solution. In fact, his speech, his whole convention seemed more about insulting me instead of helping the American people.


KEILAR: She and running mate Tim Kaine are starting with a bus tour from Philadelphia into Western Pennsylvania and Ohio as she struggles to appeal to white, blue collar workers.

CLINTON: And I am also going to pay special attention to those parts of our country that have been left out and left behind from our inner cities to our small towns, from Indian country to coal country.

KEILAR: Twenty four years after her husband took an upbeat thousand- mile bus tour through Appalachia in the Midwest. She is seeking to build momentum coming out of this week's convention.

CLINTON: I accept your nomination for president of the United States.

KEILAR: With Clinton making history.

CLINTON: Standing here as my mother's daughter and my daughter's mother, I am so happy this day has come, and I am so happy for grandmothers and little girls and everyone in between.

KEILAR: And trying to convince voters she is the steady and safe alternative to Donald Trump.

CLINTON: Imagine, if you dare imagine, imagine him in the Oval Office facing a real crisis, a man you can bait with a tweet is not a man we can trust with nuclear weapons.

KEILAR: It was, at times, an unconventional Democratic convention with appeals to GOP values.

DOUG ELMETS, FORMER REAGAN ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: I worked for Ronald Reagan. Donald Trump, you are no Ronald Reagan.


KEILAR: Now Hillary Clinton's bus tour, much shorter than the one that she went on with her husband so many years ago. That was a thousand-mile bus tour that Bill Clinton and Al Gore took, Kate, but the goal is really the same. That was a bus tour going from Appalachia into the Midwest, this is one going through Western Pennsylvania and into Ohio. Hillary Clinton trying to court some support from white, working class voters. It's an area where her campaign is concerned she is vulnerable to Donald Trump.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely, Brianna. Thank you so much, Brianna following the Clinton campaign tonight.

So, OUTFRONT with me now, Donald Trump supporter anti Joseph Borelli, anti-Trump Republican, is that what you go by these days, Tara?

TARA SETMAYER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: That's not the choice that I had.

BOLDUAN: This is one of those situations where I don't like to just read the teleprompter. Conservative Republican Tara Setmayer.

SETMAYER: Thank you.

BOLDUAN: And Hillary Clinton supporter Basil Smikle and editor-in- chief of "The Daily Beast," John Avlon.

And Tara, you can take a shot at me and call me whatever you want after I did that.


All right. So, we are going to dig in deeper and a little while into the hacking, but I do want to start since Brianna just said, Hillary Clinton is kind of, one of the kickoff events through the final section of this election. Where are we right now? John, two weeks of wild conventions, two weeks of wild speeches. Did it fundamentally change the state of this race?

JOHN AVLON, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, "THE DAILY BEAST": No, I don't think it did. Look, Donald Trump did get a bump coming out of his convention. Bumps are normal and that's a traditional thing and we'll get polling soon to see whether Hillary Clinton and Tim Kaine did, but history would suggest they will. Early polling out shows that the race is back basically where it was and it's tight.

Right now what we got is fascinating -- we are in the 100-day stretch and you see from Hillary Clinton's bus tour, she's not taking her problems with white working class voters for granted and the easy thing to do would be basically to concede that ground but she's taken this bus tour across Pennsylvania or across Ohio. They're the must- win swing states where he's been incredibly competitive because there's not the level of diversity you see in some other swing states particularly in the southwest and Florida.

BOLDUAN: But after two weeks, Tara. You are not a fan of either candidate.


BOLDUAN: Who has made more headway with white, working-class voters. What did you hear?

SETMAYER: Well, I mean, I think at this point Donald Trump has the advantage which is to John's point, why Hillary Clinton is focused on those areas. The Bernie Sanders supporters, the, you know, against free trade folks and the rust belt areas, those are significant areas of concern. Let's not forget Hillary Clinton lost Michigan, they underestimate how frustrated people are, and The Washington Post did a story not too long ago about people who have never voted Republican in their lives.

You know, labor unions, you know, average blue collar folks that are saying, you know what? If you don't want more of the same, we're going to vote for Donald Trump and he fights for us. So, that message that Donald Trump is putting out there is resonating but the point is, at this point, at this junction, can Hillary Clinton make up for it in other areas? She's going to have to grab some of that white working class vote but Donald Trump doesn't seem to be expanding at any point so that's where you're going to see the difference and it's going to be a very close margin.

[19:10:37] BOLDUAN: But Basil, after speaker, dozens of speakers and some of them including President Obama, Vice President Biden, Bill Clinton, to your point that people want to see change. Who is more status quo after two weeks of conventions? Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton.

BASIL SMIKLE, EXEC. CHAIRMAN, NEW YORK STATE DEMOCRATIC PARTY: I don't think either of them are status quo. Yes, the first female nominee of a major party and that is not at all status quo. But I would say this and sort of speaking to Tara's point. I think Donald Trump had an advantage. I actually don't think he has that anymore. I think -- BOLDUAN: What changed it?

SMIKLE: Well, to be honest, I think Hillary Clinton and all of the speakers throughout the four days in the convention actually made a significant case as to why he is not the person to actually lead a charge into the future to engage economic justice for America. One of the things that I thought was really compelling, I was sitting there on the floor. New York had pretty good seats.

BOLDUAN: I think you did. I want -- several times.

SMIKLE: You know what, in speaking to those Bernie Sanders supporters, I do think there are some that had been frustrated and still are, but a vast majority of them I think listened to speech after speech and you can sort of see a change because I think every speaker actually addressed not only why Donald Trump is unfit to be leader of this nation, but why she is the best person to actually address some of the economic concerns.

BOLDUAN: Well, and if you look at the ratings, a lot of people saw those speeches after speeches and if they did, they heard this. Donald Trump is a homegrown demagogue. Donald Trump is a fraud and Donald Trump is a con. And by and large, he is just too dangerous to let sit in the Oval Office. Is there a concerned after a well- coordinated convention -- you disagree with it obviously, with the message that there is some that will stick?

JOE BORELLI, NEW YORK CO-CHAIR, DONALD TRUMP CAMPAIGN: The only thing that was consistent was the attacks on Donald Trump and that's fine. What you actually got was a disjointed message. Remember, one night you had Bill Clinton, one of the most effective communicators in the Democratic Party trying to paint Hillary Clinton as a change agent. He had to go back 30 years, you had to generate a time in people's mind when they could see her as a change agent. The next night, the next night, Barack Obama was trying to paint her as the continuation of his presidency. It's somewhat of a disjointed message and for all that was painted of the Republican convention before it even happens, I would say the Democrats actually come out a little bit disorganized and you had the number two candidate leave the party.


SMIKLE: But I would say this --


SMIKLE: But I would say this. One of the things that I thought what's came out of this convention is something that at best is underreported and at worst is just ignored which is that for Hillary Clinton's entire career, she has a strong legacy of public service that I think that really speaks to how she will govern.

AVLON: That's part of the status quo issue they're banging in the way out. Look, both bboth oth campaigns are trying to drive up the already sky-high negatives of the other person. What you're basically are trying to win right now is both campaigns are trying to do a negative wave and that's not good for the country. There's one big substantive --

SMIKLE: But that's all they're doing.

AVLON: Oh, yes, and you're going to see more of it and there's one substantive I think between the two and it's evidence in their vice presidential picks which is the big news of both conventions at the end of the day. Mike Pence helped Donald Trump consolidate some conservatives.


AVLON: That is some, you know, white conservatives particularly in the Midwest, that could be key to any electoral map she wants to have. But by actually picking Tim Kaine, a swing state senator, senator, swing state, senator --


AVLON: Hillary Clinton didn't worry about appeasing the -- as much as you see about reaching out and moving the map. That's indicative of what you ultimately need to do with a campaign which is build a coalition bigger than your base and Hillary Clinton seems to be taking that seriously. Donald Trump doesn't yet.

BOLDUAN: Hold on, guys. Hold on. We'll get back to this. Pause. Pause. We'll be right back.

OUTFRONT next Bernie Sanders supporters making themselves heard all week long booing Clinton's points, during the speech, during the night and booing other speakers throughout the week. But also this -- I want to talk about this. Our breaking news. The Feds investigating a hack at the Clinton campaign. Are the Russians behind it? We have a special report coming up and a very emotional moment at the convention, a gold-star father and a Muslim tearing into Donald Trump.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You have sacrificed nothing! And no one!


[19:18:17] BOLDUAN: Right now, Hillary Clinton is preparing to take the stage for her second rally of the day. Her campaign is helping to build momentum after the Democratic Convention where party unity was on display, but it was a long road getting there. Donald trump is trying to highlight any divisions that remain in the web video today using Bernie Sanders' own words to try and tear down Clinton.

Jeff Zeleny is OUTFRONT with more on this. A web video and an attack seems like they picked up right where they left off after these conventions. Jeff, what are you picking up?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: It does, Kate. But one thing I'm struck by talking to so many Bernie Sanders delegates here in Philadelphia throughout the week, you can sort of track their move as it changed from Monday through Thursday there. And I can tell you, not really any Bernie Sanders delegates, at least, said they were going home from here to support Donald Trump. Now, there were a few who said we may have to support a third-party ticket here. We just don't necessarily like some things about the Clinton campaign.

So, some Jill Stein supporters out there with the green party and Gary Johnson supporters, libertarian there, but the question here is, is Donald Trump bringing anyone over? And I can tell you, Kate, Bernie Sanders' admonition against Donald Trump seems to be working at least so far with many of the Sanders delegates we talked to and watching their support groups online. I talked to one voter from the panhandle of Florida last night. She was watching Hillary Clinton's speech and she was holding up a sign. Bernie has my heart, but Hillary has my vote, and that summed up a lot of what I was hearing from across the delegation last night in Philadelphia -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: Fascinating. Jeff, also this, what incentive at this point do you hear from that Bernie Sanders has to go out and campaign for Hillary Clinton. I mean, he did his part, he went out there and he basically bear hugged her in endorsing her during this last week at the Democratic convention. What's he going to do now?

ZELENY: It was a change in his posture, certainly, and I asked some of his close advisers why that was, what brought him to it. And he said this, he said a loss for Clinton in November would essentially be a loss for Sanders. His movement will have no influence on a Trump White House but his movement could have an influence on a Clinton White House. They could make sure to try to pull it to the left again. So it's really that simple, a Clinton win is a Sanders win in some respects and a loss is indeed a loss for his movement, as well -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: Jeff, great to see you. Thank you so much.

OUTFRONT with me now, Jeff Weaver who is Bernie Sander's campaign manager this presidential cycle. Jeff, it's great to see you.


BOLDUAN: Thank you so much. So, last night during Hillary Clinton's speech, she reached out to Bernie Sanders and She reached out to Bernie Sanders' supporters. Here's what thing she said, listen to this.


CLINTON: And to all of your supporters here and around the country, I want you to know I've heard you. Your cause is our cause.


Our country needs your ideas, energy and passion that is the only way we can turn our progressive platform into real change for America!


BOLDUAN: Jeff, at this point, are you genuinely satisfied with what you heard from Hillary Clinton last night?

WEAVER: Oh, absolutely. I think everybody has to agree that her speech was much better than anticipated and I think her reaching out to Sanders' supporters was right on point. And in particular, in talking about the platform, you know, both campaigns work very hard on that platform, representatives from both campaigns from the grassroots worked on that platform and you know, you have some pundits out there saying, this is just a piece of paper, but the truth of the matter is that Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders are both committed to enacting the provisions in the most progressive platform in Democratic Party history if Hillary Clinton is elected. So, I think many people are very gratified to hear her commitment in enacting the provisions of the platform.

BOLDUAN: There were protests, there were angry protests especially in the first day of the convention. I remember you were active in trying to tamp it down, sending messages to supporters asking them to be respectful. I was on the floor last night. There were still protesters there wearing shirts with Bernie Sanders' quotes on them, clearly not everyone is onboard. Do you think the protesters were treated fairly?

WEAVER: Well, I think that the media obviously focused on the relatively small number of people who were making some kind of demonstration, but as Jeff said in his report, you know, the vast majority of the Sanders supporters I think are either moving to Hillary Clinton or are thinking of moving in that direction and Trump has very little sway with the Bernie supporters. He withstands opposite to everything Bernie Sanders stands for and, you know, Bernie Sanders I think, was quite clear that he is supporting Hillary Clinton and that for us to make the kind of progressive change that he advocated during his campaign, we have to elect Hillary Clinton.

[19:23:25] BOLDUAN: Jeff, I want to get your take. Mike Pence, Donald Trump's running mate. He was at a campaign rally, and I think he was actually still speaking just a short time ago and he said, he had this to say about Hillary Clinton, and I want to get your take.



GOV. MIKE PENCE (R), VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: People are restless for change. They're ready to break free from the old patterns in Washington, D.C., and Democrats last night just made it official. They nominated someone who represents everything this country is tired of so let's decide here and now Hillary Clinton must never become president of the United States of America.


BOLDUAN: Jeff, is Hillary Clinton change?

WEAVER: Well, compared to what they're advocating which is a return to disastrous trickledown economics which has put our country in the position it is now. Certainly they're not talking about change. They're talking about turning the clock back and that would be disastrous for the country for working-class people, for young people, for middle-income families. This is exactly what Bernie Sanders fought against throughout this campaign was the return to this kind of Republican trickledown economics that these Trump and Pence are advocating. Tax breaks for the rich and nothing for anybody else.

BOLDUAN: Jeff, you were right beside Bernie Sanders all along this road. I mean, you and I have spoke so many times and this was, you know, the fight you truly, truly believed in. That moment when Bernie Sanders stood up and handed the delegates over to Hillary Clinton, you know, symbolic, but significant. That moment when he was with the Vermont delegation, it did strike me and I was actually wondering at the time, what was that moment like for you? What went through your mind?

WEAVER: Well, you know I have great pride in Senator Sanders and I've been with him in 30 years and he's truly the person who puts the country ahead of himself and working-class families ahead of himself. And it really was a class move on his part to try to bring the party together to defeat Donald Trump and to elect Hillary Clinton, and I was very, very proud of him.

BOLDUAN: It's great to see you, Jeff. Thanks so much.

WEAVER: Thank you.

BOLDUAN: OUTFRONT for us next. More on the breaking news the FBI investigating a hack at the Clinton campaign. Are the Russians behind it? Amazing. We've been wondering that. And one of the most talked about speeches this week, a man who brought down the House at the DNC. He's our guest coming up.


[19:29:40] BOLDUAN: Breaking news. Officials telling CNN that a program used by the Clinton campaign may have been hacked. They say it appears similar and that's their wording to the DNC hack which officials believe was carried out by Russia. And tonight the Trump campaign releasing a statement saying this seems to be a problem wherever Hillary Clinton goes, their wording.

Jim Sciutto is OUTFRONT.


[19:30:00] DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Wouldn't it be nice if we actually did get along with Russia?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Donald Trump trading compliments with Russian president and U.S. adversary Vladimir Putin.

TRUMP: When people like me I like them. Even Putin.

SCIUTTO: Their relationship under new scrutiny with U.S. officials now saying it was likely it was Russia that hacked 20,000 e-mails from the Democratic National Committee.

WikiLeaks released the e-mails on the eve of the Democratic Party convention. The timing, raising questions about whether it was an attempt to influence the U.S. election perhaps in Trump's favor.

Director of the National Intelligence James Clapper told us that while it was too early to say with certainty it was Russia, the Kremlin does have an interest in undermining the U.S. political process.

(on camera): Is it your view that Russia has the intention of, if not, influencing this election, undermining confidence in the U.S. political process?

JAMES CLAPPER, DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE: They see a U.S. conspiracy behind every bush. They believe that we are trying to influence political developments in Russia and their natural response is to retaliate.

SCIUTTO: That is a very serious concern for the U.S. government.

CLAPPER: Was this just to stir up trouble or was this to ultimately try to influence an election? And, of course, this is a serious proposition.

SCIUTTO: When asked by Erin Burnett, Trump's campaign manager discounted the theory that Russia leaked the documents to help put Trump in the White House.

PAUL MANAFORT, DONALD TRUMP CAMPAIGN CHAIRMAN: It's just absurd. I don't know anything about what you just said. You may know it, and if you do, then you ought to expose it.

SCIUTTO: In fact, Trump maintains that he has no connections to Russia whatsoever and CNN has not been able to find any current business operations there.

TRUMP: I have nothing to do with Putin. I've never spoken to him and I've never spoken to him. I don't know anything about him.

SCIUTTO: But when he brought his Miss Universe pageant to Moscow in 2013, Trump said he spoke personally with Putin.

TRUMP: I was in Moscow recently, and I spoke indirectly and directly with President Putin who could not have been nicer.

SCIUTTO: Ad now, Trump's favorable comments about Russia has U.S. allies worried about whether the U.S. would defend them against Russian aggression.

CLAPPER: It's very bothersome to our foreign interlocutors, our foreign partners. And I hear than from my counterparts.


SCIUTTO: The Justice Department's National Security Division is now investigating this latest possible hack on the Hillary Clinton campaign because of similarities to the hack on the DNC, and the hack on the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee, digital similarities, but also in terms of the method. And, Kate, those similarities point yet again to Russia.

Again, not with certainty and they haven't publicly identified Russia, but that is the concern and in the midst of the U.S. presidential campaign and the potential to influence that, U.S. officials are taking it extremely seriously.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Understandably so.

Jim, thank you so much.

I want to bring in my panel along with David Gergen, presidential adviser for four former presidents. Thanks, guys, for sticking around with me.

David, first to you. These hacks, I mean, beyond politics, extremely concerning, but looking at politics, how much of a political headache do you think this is likely to be?

DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: It could be very serious, Kate. It's one thing to be hacking into the Democratic National Committee which had pledged to be neutral. It's a very different thing and there are only a few e-mails in the Democratic National Committee which were very bias, but they didn't affect the outcome of the campaign.

Whereas if you go into the Hillary Clinton campaign itself and into the campaign committee, that's where you would find the memos and the conversations about strategy, about how you plan to win and that information is extremely vital to keep private for a campaign. If WikiLeaks and Russians hate the Democrats so much, there's going to be great temptation to pass it to the opposition.

And then in effect, you have an invasion and there is a whiff of Watergate when you get into that kind of level of hacking and into the inner sanctum of political thinking and strategy of the campaign.

BOLDUAN: Basil, you're a supporter of the campaign. How scared should they be?

BASIL SMIKLE, EXEC. CHAIRMAN, NEW YORK STATE DEMOCRATIC PARTY: Well, I think, to David's point earlier, if any hacker went into the campaign, it has the potential to reveal things like strategy. You know, these are entities, DCCC, and the DNC that I work with regularly.


SMIKLE: We deal with voter files, which have come out before, come up earlier, we have strategy attached to individual voters, may be even donor information files which have come up before and come up earlier, and you have strategy attached to individual voters, maybe even donor information with these donors.

BOLDUAN: Could this be paralyzing?

SMIKLE: I don't know if it's paralyzing because ultimately, whoever is looking at that time actually needs to interpret it in a certain way, and I could not be sure how the campaign itself is intending to use it. But I do want to make a point about the individuals involved because of what happened at the Democratic National Convention, the former chair, which is that the majority of the folks they interact with, all of them have been upstanding and fair, and we have tried to sort of move forward by actually working together and not sort of taking sides against any particular campaign.

BOLDUAN: This makes it hard to leave the headlines, though.

John, you've been very involved with the campaign before. If you're in the Hillary Clinton campaign and, and if you are in the campaign and you deal with this news today, what are you doing?

JOHN AVLON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, it has a chilling effect certainly on the way people use e-mail, concern that the strategy and other confidential e-mails could pop out at any moment. I mean, the proverbial October surprise.

But I would say the greater danger here isn't to the campaign internally and it's not about embarrassment. It's about the direct implication that the FBI is apparently investigating, that Russia, a hostile foreign power, is trying to impact the outcome over our election for their own purposes. That is -- you know, you cannot overstate the seriousness. Russia has a long history even before Putin in trying to impact election outcomes. The fact that they're trying to impact an American election through cyber means is a national security crisis of the highest order.

BOLDUAN: I want to ask you about, kind of exactly to that point.

Joseph, the Trump campaign put out a statement and this is what it said. It said, "This seems to be a problem wherever Hillary Clinton goes. Hopefully, this time, there wasn't classified or top secret information that puts American lives at risk."

Yes, Hillary Clinton very quickly, try to point to Russia being behind it because they wanted to tip the scales in the election. But this is a very political statement, their initial reaction to this kind of hack.

Doesn't the danger go beyond politics? I envision this utopian world when Russia tries to attack the e-mails of any political campaign or maybe anyone who wants to be -- you know, anyone closer whoever wants to be president, both campaigns stand up against this power, no?

JOE BORELLI, NEW YORK CO-CHAIR, DONALD TRUMP CAMPAIGN: In putting our security hats on, I agree with John. And Governor Pence agreed with John as well as most Americans that any threat to our security should be taken seriously.

BOLDUAN: Then what's this? BORELLI: You can't ignore the fact that this call to mind the Clinton

email scandals, the history of Clinton with the computers. It does call to mind some disorganization between Democratic Party for allowing this to happen.

But I want to defeat Hillary Clinton without this.


BOLDUAN: They didn't allow this to happen. Cyber warfare is --

BORELLI: But what I think is more irresponsible, though, is the sort of connotations and I think Jim who pointed out that there's no link to Trump, although so many people in the media have tried to point that and tried to say that there's some collusion with Trump and Russia hacking the Democratic emails.

TARA SETMAYER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Let's talk about that because there may not be a direct link that anyone can find, but let's not act like Donald Trump does not have a vested interest in Russia and Putin. No, I mean, financial interest.


BOLDUAN: But, Tara, isn't it being just as political as Donald Trump's campaign is people are trying to make a link to Donald Trump.

BORELLI: The Russian economy is 70 percent based on oil and natural gas. They do not want a president who wants to open up more natural gas and oil in the United States of America and it would be against Russian interest to have Donald Trump as president.

SETMAYER: Listen, Donald Trump, with him trying to act like Putin, and I don't know what's going on here. He's done family business there for many years and a lot of his debt is by Russian oligarchs and Trump Soho here in New York was financed by questionable Russian and Kazakhstan money. It goes back a long way. Trump cannot get -

BORELLI: Why is it questionable --

SETMAYER: Yes. Because Russian -- because -- no, no, no.

BORELLI: Hold on!

SETMAYER: Let me finish!


SETMAYER: Joseph Borelli, you know the definition of an oligarch. The oligarchs over there in Russia have direct ties to Putin and the states there.

BORELLI: They gave Bill Clinton $500,000, when she was secretary of state.

SETMAYER: OK, fine, but Donald Trump has continued to disparage NATO and weakening NATO is a benefit to Vladimir Putin. Donald Trump has refused to say that if he wouldn't recognize the Crimea as the Russians taking it over.

He's done number of numerous things that have been very friendly to Vladimir Putin because he has a vested interest financially and people need to look at that.

BOLDUAN: David Gergen, you get to be the umpire on this one, calling the balls and strikes, jump into the pool while I was hoping for us all to perfectly take on Russia together and make sure they weren't hacking. No, we are in the pool of politics right now.

GERGEN: For sure.

BOLDUAN: Who will win this one, David?

GERGEN: I think the Trump campaign has a point, unless there's evidence. They shouldn't be held responsible for the hacking. If there is evidence, that's a completely different matter.

What I do think is we don't know about the full extent of Donald Trump's business because we don't have all of his financial tax records and tax returns out in public, and were he to do that this would clear itself up a lot.

But in the meantime, there are serious people in the real estate business who will tell you that -- and I think this is worth checking out -- that when he had his bankruptcies, that he did borrow money from the Russian banks.

[19:40:11] They argue that he is probably ad hoc to the Russians and that might explain a lot. I think we just -- the country deserves to know what the ties are. We don't have the evidence right now, and Mr. Trump could help the country a great deal by putting his records fully on display.

BURNETT: And in the meantime, yet again, I will say, there is no evidence that he is directly linked. There is no evidence. All of the caveats that are necessary in this conversation. It's just important to say.

AVLON: It's important because put all of the personal stuff aside and the allegations of money because all of that is unfounded and that needs to be clearly stated, right?


AVLON: What we do know is the policies he has backed as a presidential candidate have been friendly to Russian interests to the extent of possibly withdrawing from NATO, not judging the Crimean invasion, and in the platform committee, very unusual and the policy agnostic and they pulled their traditional support for the sovereignty of the Ukraine. Those are unusual policy decisions for the campaign that isn't particularly interested in politics.

BOLDUAN: The issues continue. Thanks, guys. SETMAYER: They wanted to make sure it was on the platform.

BOLDUAN: This is not over. We have much more time to discuss this.

OUTFRONT next, the man who gave one of the most unforgettable speeches at the Democratic convention, he is joining us next.

And the battle of the New York billionaires. Why did Michael Bloomberg say this about Donald J. Trump?


MICHAEL BLOOMBERG, FORMER NYC MAYOR: Trump says he wants to run the nation like he's running his business? God help us.



[19:45:36] BOLDUAN: Hillary Clinton and Chelsea Clinton may have been the headliners on the stage last night at the Democratic National Convention. But for many people, there was another unexpected star of the night. Watch.


REV. WILLIAM BARBER, PRESIDENT, NORTH CAROLINA NAACP: In this season when some want to harden and stop the heart of our democracy, we are being called like our foremothers and fathers to be the moral defibrillators of our time. We must shock this nation with the power of love! We can't give up on the heart of our democracy, not now, not ever!


BOLDUAN: OUTFRONT tonight, Reverend William Barber, president of the North Carolina NAACP, and also pastor of the Green Leaf Christian Church.

Reverend, thank you so much for joining me.

I was on the floor last night for your speech and people were on their feet. One headline called this a drop the mike moment of the evening and you brought the entire arena up pretty much your entire speech. Were you surprised by the reaction?

BARBER: Well, I'm always humbled by it. I've been traveling the country on what we call the revival, a time of moral revolution of values and I went as a preacher and not as representing any organization.

But there is a deep hunger to reframe our moral conversation, and to take on the so-called "Christian evangelicalism" which says the only moral issues are prayer where you stand on homosexuality and abortion. The fact of the matter is that more than 2,000 scriptures in the bible, of both the Old and New Testament, they speak to the issue of poverty, how we treat the poor and how we write policies that deal with injustice and how we health care the sick and the stranger and those on the margins.

And there's a deep hunger for that in America, and we've seen that before in the civil rights movement and the reconstruction movement in 1800, and there's a deep hunger for that again.

BOLDUAN: Reverend, you clearly wanted your message to transcend politics, but you were speaking at a very political convention. Donald Trump was a big target throughout the night for many speeches. I did not hear you mention his name in your speech, why not?

BARBER: Well, in some sense, Trump -- I look at Mr. Trump as more of a Trumpism, as a kind of a continuation of what we called with the old Southern strategy, where we used racially coded word, and sometime not so coded word to stoke fear.

And I think we need to challenge that, but I also said last night that some issues are not left-right politics, conservative versus liberal. And I think I'm left-right, conservative and liberal and they're deeper issues, they're moral issues and there's a higher politics, there's a higher policy, if you will. The issue of health care shouldn't be left in the right. The issue of equal protection under the law and the issue of immigrant rights, the issue of treating the poor and providing safety and living wages should be issues that are a moral issue.

They fit morally enough and the deepest constitutional values that call us to be concerned about the general welfare of all people.

BOLDUAN: Real quick, you mentioned evangelicals. 78 percent of white evangelicals would work for Trump. As a man of faith, why do you think he's doing so well with them?

BARBER: Well, I don't. And I think that what we've done in this -- and it's been ever since the moral majority and it's a certain framing of evangelical. I'm an evangelical. I'm a conservative, theological Biblicist and I'm in a denomination that's predominantly white, and there are thousands.

And I encourage the media, we ought to have this conversation in the media. You ought to have someone like myself and Jim Forbes and Tracy Blackman and have someone like the Falwells and the Franklin Grahams, and let's really have a real critical understanding about what is really a truly biblical evangelical position.

BOLDUAN: Reverend Barber, thank you so much for coming in.

BARBER: Thank you. Thank you.

BOLDUAN: OUTFRONT next, two New York City billionaire businessmen, Donald Trump and Michael Bloomberg. What's behind their bitter war of words?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [19:53:30] BOLDUAN: It's a battle of the New York City billionaires. In one corner, former mayor Michael Bloomberg, now a Clinton supporter, and in the other corner, Donald Trump who had nice things to say about Bloomberg before the endorsement, of course.

Sunlen Serfaty is OUTFRONT with tonight's "Big Number".


SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's a brawl between two Big Apple billionaires.

BLOOMBERG: I'm a New Yorker, and I know a con when I see one.

SERFATY: Former New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg jabbing at Trump during his Democratic convention speech this week.

BLOOMBERG: Trump is a risky and reckless and radical choice.

SERFATY: Looking to land punches at the very core of Donald Trump, his reputation as a successful businessman.

BLOOMBERG: Trump says he wants to run the nation like he's running his business? God help us.

SERFATY: A critique that seems to have hit a nerve with the GOP nominee.

TRUMP: I wanted to hit a couple of those speakers so hard. I would have hit them.

SERFATY: Trump firing back at Bloomberg.

TRUMP: He came out of deals with me, would you help me with this and would you solve the problem? I solved the problem and I do a great job.

SERFATY: Doubling down his attacks on Twitter, writing that Bloomberg, quote, "never had the guts to run for president", adding, "his last term as mayor was a disaster."

But their relationship hasn't always been hostile. The two New Yorkers have not only crossed paths, but done deals together. In 2012 working on a golf course redevelopment in the Bronx while Bloomberg was still mayor.

[19:55:01] TRUMP: Thank you very much, Mike, and I have to say you have been a great mayor. You really have. I mean, this guy is fantastic.

SERFATY: Offering public praise for each other.

BLOOMBERG: Donald Trump is a developer who has lots of good ideas and he's done an awful lot for this city.

SERFATY: Trump in 2012 giving Bloomberg kudos for a dropping crime rates in New York City, tweeting, "That's leadership."

Bloomberg even making cameos on Trump's reality show "The Apprentice".

BLOOMBERG: I'm supposed to see whether you guys can cut the muster.


SERFATY: But when Bloomberg flirted with his own independent presidential run to potentially challenge Trump, their friendship began to sour.

TRUMP: I would love for Michael to do it. I would love for Michael to do it. You know, we used to be friends. I guess we're not friends anymore. I don't think we are.


SERFATY: And Bloomberg advisers say the goal of his speech was to reach out to independents, to moderates and swing voters, and there's no doubt that his speech was one of those lasting moments that really fed into the narrative coming out of the convention this week, one that has very clearly gotten under Donald Trump's skin.

BOLDUAN: Yes, friends no longer for sure after that.

Sunlen, thanks so much.

We'll be right back.


BOLDUAN: We'll live look from Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, where Hillary Clinton is set to begin a campaign event any minute now. Clinton and Tim Kaine kicking off their post-convention bus tour there.

With that we'll say thank you very much.

Anderson Cooper starts right now.