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Feud Deepens Between Trump and Gold Star Parents. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired August 01, 2016 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:00] CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Thank you so much for joining me. As we begin a new week, Donald Trump might well be searching for a reset button. It has been a bruising 72 hours with the Republican nominee hitting several potholes in the post-convention sprint to November.

Trump blunders on Ukraine saying there's no way Russia will make a military move. But Moscow did just that more than two years ago when its military ceased Crimea. Trump balks at the debate schedule saying Hillary Clinton has rigged by scheduling the faceoff at the same time as NFL games. But it's a nonpartisan group that picked the dates and it announced them more than a year ago. Trump also being criticized for claiming the NFL sent him a letter complaining about the debate schedule, something the league denies.

And what may be the biggest, if not most damaging story of the campaign, Donald Trump is facing a growing backlash over his jabs at the parents of a Muslim U.S. soldier killed in Afghanistan.

Khizr Khan spoke at last week's Democratic National Convention condemning Trump's proposal to ban Muslims from entering the United States. He called the move unconstitutional and offered to lend Trump his own pocketbook version of the Constitution.

Trump has fired back, accusing the Clinton campaign of writing the speech and even suggesting the mother was not allowed to speak. This morning both parents spoke with CNN.

We want to play you a substantial piece of what they had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KHIZR KHAN, FATHER OF DECEASED MUSLIM U.S. SOLDIER: I apologize if I -- if I am a little emotional about this. Every decent Republican has rebuked his behavior, yet nobody has stood up and said enough. Stop it. You will not be our candidate. In private, they have done this. We are aware of it that in private they have done this. Speaker Paul, Paul Ryan, Senate majority leader, other senior Republican leadership have done that. But this candidate's maligning of decent patriotic Republican has continued the leadership.

Look what he did and how he spoke about Mitt Romney. Look what he did, how he spoke with Senator McCain. This is a consistent, this is a proof of his ignorance and arrogance, and I again and again ask his advisers to get him in a room, close the door, and set him right. If he needs -- if he wants to be the candidate of this wonderful Republican Party, Republican and Democratic Party, both are as patriotic as anywhere and anyone.

Therefore, I'm amazed at the love and care that we have received and we continue to receive and we will continue to speak up until this candidate behaves in a dignified manner, deserving of the candidacy of this office.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Mr. Khan, you -- you just called him ignorant and arrogant, and in fact, Donald Trump said you attacked him at the Democratic convention. In a tweet, he said, "I was viscously attacked by Mr. Khan at the Democratic convention. Am I not allowed to respond?" So --

K. KHAN: Bear with me.

BERMAN: Go ahead.

K. KHAN: That is again -- that is again, his ignorance of the First Amendment. I have exactly same rights as he does. He had been abusing, disrespecting women, judges, all decent Americans, he had been so abusive of them. I exercise exactly same rights. That, again, proves his ignorance. He wants to have one set of rights for himself and he wants to have another set of rights for others. No. Somebody should tell him that there is equal dignity. Equal protection of law in this country.

That is why that Constitution came to play. I keep that in my pocket because I cherish this document. I wish somebody would read it to him. Certain fundamental values that enshrine in this document.

BERMAN: His supporters now say, though, since you've talked about this, since you have exercised your First Amendment rights, you're now fair game. It is now fair game for Donald Trump to talk about you and his supporters to talk about you. You spoke at the Democratic convention, which is a political platform.

K. KHAN: Well, they have been exercising their rights, so there is nothing new to that. We are private citizens. We are private people. We want to be out of this controversy. My good wife, Ghazala, had been insisting that I not respond. I let -- I take a more dignified path than responding to undignified attacks and comments. Therefore, we jointly decide that there is no need to escalate this.

[09:05:11] We have made the point. The amount of recognition, the amount of love, support, care, street corners, any place we go to, people come and they say you have spoken what we wanted to say. I have my e-mail box full of messages from prominent Republicans that are saying that this year no Republican presidential vote.

So we want to be out of this controversy. We don't want to continue. That is not our style. We are decent, dignified family of this country. Very appreciative of the blessings that we have enjoyed. We continue to enjoy. And we want to remain that way.

BERMAN: Mrs. Khan -- K. KHAN: This is -- this is not our path.

BERMAN: Mrs. Khan, I want to talk to you, because Donald Trump specifically questioned you and questioned your silence at the Democratic convention last Thursday. I want to play you the sound. Undoubtedly you've heard it by now of what he had to say about your choice not to speak on Thursday. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: His wife, if you look at his wife, she was standing there. She had nothing to say. She probably -- maybe she wasn't allowed to have anything to say. You tell me but plenty of people have written that. She was extremely quiet. And it looked like she had nothing to say. A lot of people have said that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Mrs. Khan, I would like to give you a chance to respond to that right now.

GHAZALA KHAN, MOTHER OF SLAIN U.S. SOLDIER: Actually I have already responded. In my statement that I think it is published in "Washington Post," and but still, I can say that my religion or my family or my culture never stopped me saying whatever I want to say. And my husband is very supportive of me in these things that I have all the rights as a wife, as a mother, as a daughter. I have done very well saying my mind out, but that time was different.

And anybody can see that hard difference that time was when I was standing there in front of America, without saying a word, I had lots of love. I touched lots of hearts. So I'm thankful for everything that America has given me. Everything that I had got from America, the most of it, the love and the respect.

I just -- I'm so happy to be saying that I am a Muslim woman. And Muslim women have all the rights in the world. In eyes of God, we are equal to our husbands. We are equal and we are number one in our -- in the household, in my family, in my culture, in my community.

I'm very glad that I have been in this country and I got all the happiness and that comes from Humayun. Yes, somebody have to pay the price for this freedom that we have in America.

BERMAN: As a Gold Star mother, is there a message you want to send right now to the country about what you're feeling four days into this discussion?

G. KHAN: I'm really very happy for the things that I got from America, and from all over the world. My respect, my love has gone, a lot that I was expecting, but always wherever I go, I don't know, people hugged me, people love me, not right now, but all these 12 years. I had America's respect. That's why I thought I should go with my husband, stand there, and tell them how Muslim feels in this country. We feel very protected. We feel very happy and our futures, our children are in a safe place. BERMAN: Mr. Khan, Donald Trump is apparently watching right now. On

Twitter, he just said, "Mr. Khan, who does not know me, viscously tacked me from the stage of the DNC and is all over TV doing the same. Nice," he said. Given that you know he is watching now, is there a message you would like to send to him about this discussion?

K. KHAN: I really want to maintain mine and my family's dignity. I spoke what was appropriate and if he is watching, just imagine, there was no need to comment the way he commented.

[09:10:12] That initiated this conversation. I again say, we want to maintain our dignity. We want to maintain my family's dignity. My son's dignity and sacrifice. And he should listen to America, what America and the world is telling about the remarks, about the lack of empathy, and that's all I wish to convey to him. That a good leader has one trait.

Earlier, I said empathy. I probably right now will misspell it, but it is basic character, realizing, feeling the pains, the difficulties of the people that you wish to lead, and that is missing. Donald Trump needs to sit with his advisers and portray to this world that he is empathetic. You solve the problems with empathy. Putting people together.

There are bad people among us. But there are good people among us as well. You gather good people to get rid of bad people, but you do not malign the whole religion, the whole culture.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: All right, so as you heard, Mr. Trump has already responded to that interview. And moments ago, Senator John McCain did, too. He released a very harsh statement about the feud, calling on Republicans to denounce Mr. Trump in saying it's time for Trump to set an example for the United States of America.

CNN's Phil Mattingly joins me now with more on that.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Carol, we've seen it over the last 13 or 14 months. When Donald Trump feels like he is being attacked, he counterpunches. He actually says he is a counterpuncher. And that's exactly what he is doing right now with the Khan family, tweeting out, as John Berman referenced in that interview, "Mr. Khan, who does not know me, visually attacked me from the stage at the DNC, and is now all over TV doing the same. Nice."

Now, Carol, when you talk to Republicans who have been watching this over the course of the last 48 hours, they desperately want Donald Trump to stop, to move on. This is an issue that frankly in politics we haven't seen before. It's considered that out of the realm of reality. Perhaps nobody hammered this home kind of more intensely than John McCain.

Obviously a former naval aviator, himself a target of Donald Trump, putting out a 697-word statement just a little bit ago. And that statement included this. Quote, "I claim no moral superiority over Donald Trump. I have a long and well-known public and private record for which I will have to answer at the final judgment. And I repose my hope in the promise of mercy and the moderation of age. I challenge the nominee to set the example for what our country can and should represent."

He goes on to say, "Arizona," his home state, "is watching. It is time for Donald Trump to set the example for our country and the future of the Republican Party. While our party has bestowed upon him the nomination, it is not accompanied by the unfettered license to defame those who are best among us."

He also includes a reference to his own family, quote, "My son served today and I'm proud of him. My youngest served in the war that claimed Captain Khan's life as well as in Afghanistan. I want them to be proud of me. I want them to do the right thing by their comrades."

Now, Carol, John McCain not the only one speaking out. Across the spectrum yesterday Republican leaders doing much of the same, though maybe not in those terms. Paul Ryan, the speaker of the House, putting out a statement last night, saying, quote, "Many Muslim- Americans have served valiantly in our military and made the ultimate sacrifice. Captain Khan was one such brave example. His sacrifice and that of Khizr and Ghazala Khan should always be honored, period."

Now the Trump campaign has really tried to frame this as they want to move on. They don't want this to be a spectacle. They want to make this a broader discussion about terrorism. They're having a difficulty in doing that, likely because their own candidate continues to talk about this. However, Mike Pence, the running mate of Donald Trump, last night putting out a statement of his own, saying this.

"Donald Trump and I believe Captain Humayun Khan is an American hero and his family like all Gold Star families should be cherished by every American." That said, Carol, in that same exact statement, Mike Pence goes on to pivot and talk about the immigration ban that the Khan family was speaking out about originally, saying that had that been in place, something like this would not have happened.

Now Captain Khan was killed in 2004 in Iraq, under President George W. Bush. So there's a little bit of a disconnect there as the Trump campaign attacks Hillary Clinton and President Obama's foreign policy.

That said, Carol, the interesting thing about this is behind the scenes, when you talk to Republicans, as this has gone on, they just don't know what to do about it.

[09:15:07] COSTELLO: Well, let me ask you this.

MATTINGLY: They would like it to go away.

COSTELLO: Let me ask you this about Senator McCain.

MATTINGLY: Yes.

COSTELLO: He's in a tough race in Arizona, right? So it was just back in May, May 5th to be exact, that he said he'd back Donald Trump as his presidential nominee because GOP voters have had their say. When you read that press release, does it sound like John McCain has changed his mind?

MATTINGLY: Not officially. Look, I think if you read this press release, and it's a very powerful press release, which I would note concludes by thanking the Khan family for immigrating to America in the first place, but you also -- it underscores the difficulties Republicans are facing right now. They have all pledged to back their nominee. They can't rescind that pledge presumably or else cause a national firestorm.

COSTELLO: But when you look at John McCain's statement, he mentions Mr. Trump by name.

MATTINGLY: Yes.

COSTELLO: When you look at Paul Ryan's, he does not.

MATTINGLY: Nor does Senate Majority leader Mitch McConnell. What they have become -- well, Republican leaders, what you've seen they've become especially good at condemning Donald Trump's remarks without ever actually talking about Donald Trump, or even mentioning his name in the statements. And again they're trying to walk a fine line here. When you talk to the advisers, when you talk to GOP campaign officials for Senate races across the country, how do you walk this line? You need a Republican to win the White House, particularly if you want to talk about Supreme Court issues. You can't disavow that Republican because then that becomes the only thing anybody cares about. And yet that Republican only says things that force you to disavow those things on a regular basis.

It's an extraordinarily difficult position the Republican leaders are in. John McCain putting out a very powerful statement but again doesn't get himself out of that position. He remains in that position so long as Donald Trump is the nominee. And Republicans support the nominee -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All right. Phil Mattingly, thanks so much.

OK. So stick around because I'm going to ask Donald Trump's national security adviser about all of this, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:21:00] COSTELLO: Today, nearly a dozen Gold Star families -- those are families who've lost loved ones in war -- they are demanding an apology from Donald Trump over his deepening feud with a fallen soldier's family, quote, "When you question a mother's pain by implying that her religion, not her grief, kept her from addressing an arena of people, you are attacking us. When you say your job building buildings is akin to our sacrifice, you are attacking our sacrifice. You are not just attacking us, you are cheapening the sacrifice made by those we lost."

With me now to talk more about this is retired rear admiral, Chuck Kubic, he's the national security policy adviser to Donald Trump. I'm also joined by CNN military analyst, retired Lieutenant Colonel Rick Francona.

Welcome to both of you.

REAR ADM. CHUCK KUBIC (RET.), NATIONAL SECURITY AND POLICY ADVISER TO DONALD TRUMP: Good morning, Carol.

COSTELLO: Good morning. Admiral Kubic, should Mr. Trump apologize?

KUBIC: Well, I think that it goes without saying that the grief experienced by Mr. and Mrs. Khan, even after 12 years, is certainly representative of thousands upon thousands of Gold Star families. And I think he has made it very clear that he considers Captain Khan, as I do, to be an American hero. But, Carol, I think there's actually a deeper --

COSTELLO: Should he apologize?.

KUBIC: There is a deeper story here than all the back and forth that's going on in the media, if we have a minute to talk about it.

COSTELLO: We do. But I just want to go back to this because these families are very hurt. This father is really hurt. Should Mr. Trump apologize?

KUBIC: Well, I think he has shown that he understands their grief, he understands the feelings that they and others have.

COSTELLO: They don't think that.

KUBIC: Well, I think maybe if everybody just calmed down and listened closely they would hear that coming through, in addition to all the political rhetoric. But I think it's absolutely clear that as Americans, we look at Captain Khan, you know, as a brave American soldier. Not as a Muslim soldier, not as a Pakistani soldier. And we respect himself and everything that he has done. And I think Donald Trump's remarks have reflected that, even though he's also had to answer the political charges against him.

COSTELLO: Colonel Francona, do you think Mr. Trump should apologize?

LT. COL. RICK FRANCONA, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: I do, I do. I think that his choice of words in the way this was handled was unfortunate. And I take the Admiral's points that, you know, Mr. Trump has certain feelings or he has certain views, but he's not articulated those well. And he has insulted the memory of this young captain.

In talking to other people serving in the military, they are a little offended by the way this is being used as a political pawn. They're not happy with the speech at the convention and they're not happy with the response. This is an argument we don't need to have. Captain Khan was a hero. And I can tell you, as the admiral said, when you're in these situations, in a combat zone, you serve with people of all faiths. And it really never comes into play. All you're worried about is protecting each other out there. Not what religion they are.

COSTELLO: Admiral -- KUBIC: And Colonel -- you're spot on, Colonel. And I think that

that's something that's very important for everyone to realize that Captain Khan was killed by Muslim terrorists, radical Muslim terrorists and he was operating in a combat zone under restricted rules of engagement. And I think the fact that politicians had said by that point in the Iraq war -- I was there at the time. I was in theater, my CB division had returned with the Marines, we were in Fallujah, and we were operating in a different way than we operated when we actually marched to Baghdad, and it put young soldiers, it put everyone in extreme jeopardy.

And I think that's what's happened. When Captain Khan was faced with a taxicab coming at him at high speech, the combat rule of engagement would be to put a 50 caliber round through the grill. He was forced to go out and confront it, wave at them, shout at them, and they detonated. That's the responsibility of rules of engagement.

[09:25:03] And I am not even sure his grieving parents fully understand that because it's politicians who send soldiers to war without giving them the go ahead to fight to win. I think Mr. Trump has made it very clear that in the future, soldiers won't die like this. He won't send people in except as a last resort. And if we do have to fight, we will always fight to win.

COSTELLO: But, Admiral, send people in as a last resort. Donald Trump has said a whole bunch of different things. He wants to bomb the -- out of ISIS. He might put troops on the ground to fight, at one time he cited 40,000 or 50,000 ground troops, and now I'm really not sure where he stands. So maybe you can clarify that for us.

KUBIC: Well, I think it's pretty well said that he is unpredictable. He isn't going to broadcast exactly what he's going to do but on the other hand he's not --

COSTELLO: So he's not going to tell voters what he's going to do?

KUBIC: He's not going to attack -- he's not going to attack a friendly country like Libya, as Secretary Clinton did. And when she did attack early into it, she ignored a truce that had been negotiated to set the terms for Gadhafi's abdication and continued to bomb anyhow, and then a year later, when we had Americans and extremists in Benghazi, she obstructed a direct order of the president of the United States.

COSTELLO: No -- I understand. I'm just curious. So --

KUBIC: And so what you --

(CROSSTALK)

COSTELLO: Let me just clarify what you just said.

KUBIC: Carol, I understand it's important though --

COSTELLO: You say that Donald Trump should not tell the American people what exactly his plans are to defeat ISIS because that would be what?

KUBIC: Well, there is going to have to be a much more complex strategy than what we have right now. And part of that strategy will be overt and will be broadcast and part of it will be covert. And what we do in terms of employing troops, employing air is not something you broadcast in advance. It has to be well considered. It has to be put together by our military leaders, not by staffers in the White House. And I think that's the --

(CROSSTALK)

COSTELLO: So, Colonel -- Colonel Francona, who's also been in the theater of war. I just want Colonel Francona to weigh in because this is different. Usually presidential candidates tell the American people how exactly they're going to defeat something as dangerous as ISIS.

So, Colonel Francona, does that make sense to you, what the admiral is saying?

FRANCONA: Yes. And I think this is the conversation we need to be having, rather than discussing the unfortunate comments of Mr. Trump. We need to be -- we need to find out what his strategy is. And I take the admiral's point that you don't go down into -- and I think this administration, the current administration has been too open with what we plan to do by setting artificial dates by which we're going to withdraw, just telling the other guys you just have to wait us out.

What we need to be talking about is the strategy. And I'd like to hear that from Mr. Trump, what he plans to do. I don't care about the operations and the tactics. That's something that needs to be kept secret. But unfortunately, this -- these unfortunate comments made by both Mr. Trump and others in the administration, and in the Democratic Party are taking us away from the conversation we need to be having. So --

COSTELLO: All right.

FRANCONA: But I think we need to remember that Captain Khan's family is grieving and give them the benefit of the doubt here.

COSTELLO: All right, I have to leave it there. Admiral Chuck --

(CROSSTALK)

COSTELLO: I have to leave it there.

KUBIC: I'm sorry. OK, thanks, Carol.

COSTELLO: Rear Admiral Chuck Kubic, thanks so much for being with me. I do appreciate. And Lieutenant General -- Lieutenant Colonel Rick Francona, thanks to you as well.

Still ahead in the NEWSROOM, Hillary Clinton also suffered some bumps on the road this weekend when she had to answer some questions about her private e-mail server. We'll talk about that next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)