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GOP Leaders Outraged at Latest Trump Firestorm; Mike Pence Endorses Paul Ryan; Interview with Ari Fleischer; McCain's Reelection Battle in Arizona. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired August 03, 2016 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:00] WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Lots of news happening today, and it continues right now, right here on CNN.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Wolf Blitzer, thank you so much, great to be with you on this Wednesday. I'm Brooke Baldwin, this is CNN.

Heads up, Donald Trump is set to speak live in just short time from now as the Republican nominee is under pressure like never before because, in case you missed it moments ago, his own vice presidential nominee contradicted Trump's latest decision, his latest headline here at the last 24 hours. Well, we'll get all into that here in just a moment.

But first, keep in mind, this comes as sources say his own staffers are growing frustrated with Trump going off message, a claim, by the way, Trump denies. And also some members of his staff, as Dana Bash's reporting.

At party leaders, they are outraged at this latest Trump firestorm. The nominee's refusal to endorse two fellow leaders of his own Republican Party in their up coming primaries both Arizona Senator John McCain and Speaker of the House Representatives Paul Ryan.

So, here's Trump's response. So, this is all part of the interview with the "Washington Post" when asked about Ryan's re-election bit. Quote, this is Trump, "I like Paul, but these are horrible times for the country. We need very strong leadership. We need very, very strong leadership. And I'm just not quite there yet, I'm not quite there yet," end quotes.

Now, contrast that to some news made minutes ago as Trump's running mate, Indiana Governor Mike Pence, calls in to Fox News, voicing his support for Speaker Ryan.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

GOV. MIKE PENCE, (R-IN) VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: It takes time to have relationship together, you know. I'm strongly supporting Paul Ryan, strongly endorse his re-election. He's a long time friend. He is a strong conservative leader. I believe we need Paul Ryan in leadership, in the Congress of the United States. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Having the presidential nominee, maybe not being as forthcoming with that same view, lead some to believe that the Republican Party is a little out of step with each other. Is that the case? What are people to make of it?

PENCE: No, not at all. I've talked to Donald Trump this morning about my support for Paul Ryan, a long-time friendship. He strongly encouraged me to endorse Paul Ryan in next Tuesday's primary. I'm pleased to do it.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Let's bring in Dana Bash, our Chief Political Correspondent who has all these different breaking details on the Trump campaign today.

You have fascinating quotes, I know. But, can we just first begin with what we just heard and what Donald Trump said or didn't say to the "Washington Post", what's up?

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: With Paul Ryan and the fact that Mike Pence is endorsing Paul Ryan and Donald Trump isn't?

BALWIND: Yes.

BASH: You know what? Put this in the long, long list of things that are very unusual in the 2016 race. Just add that to the list. I do think it's actually more simple than maybe at first blush it would appear. And that is, Mike Pence is genuinely a good friend of Paul Ryan.

They served together in the House of Representatives. They have been friends for I don't know, 15 years or so.

Paul Ryan said nice things about Mike Pence as soon as Pence's name was even floated as Trump's running mate. So it's not a surprise that Pence would take a stand in even in an intra Republican such as the primary on Wisconsin next week.

In the other side, certainly, you have Paul Ryan, you know, tearing Donald Trump's convention and, you know, kind of going through the motions. But Paul Ryan also, you know, take down on Donald Trump off in not endorsing him right away, and more recently, in issuing a very strongly worded statement about the way Donald Trump handled the Khans.

And I think if you read the transcript wrote of Phil Rucker with the Washington Post's excellent interview with Donald Trump. It's pretty clear because he asked about the Ryan primary. Donald Trump came kind of a mundane answer. And they called him back with like a twinkle in his eye apparently and said...

BALDWIN: ... like, do you want a line on Paul Ryan?

BASH: Like I'm not ready to endorse him yet, you know, intentionally echoing what Ryan said about Trump himself a few months ago to CNN. BALDWIN: Yes, precisely the same phrase. And then, so you have asked, then you have your initial reporting that, you know, some of the Trump campaign staffers are frustrated with the nominee himself because he's been going off message. But then, you know, you followed up and apparently the staffers, including at the top, Paul Manafort, saying, "No, no, no. We're frustrated with you, the media." Tell me about that conversation.

BASH: Well, I think what was most fascinating who's that, certainly, I was trying to followup and get some, you know, some on-the-record quotes and more reporting.

[14:04:53] But what's most fascinating is that, they called me today to push back on the notion that I was reporting, which I stand by, that Paul Manafort and others were expressing to others, you know, in and around their orbit that they were frustrated and they felt like some felt like maybe they were wasting their time. So this was a call to push back on that essentially saying, point blank, "We're not frustrated, do we sound frustrated?" And when I say the "we", it was Paul Manafort, Rick Gates, his top aide and associate for a very long time, Jason Miller, the communications Director, Hope Hicks, the Press Secretary, Miller, Jeff Miller, excuse me, the -- excuse me, Steven Miller.

BALDWIN: Steven Miller.

BASH: I've got too many Millers and too many Jeffs in my heard.

BALDWIN: OK.

BASH: ... the policy director n. In any event, the point I'm trying to make is, I have never had such a situation where the entire senior staff of a campaign is in a room calling to say, "I was frustrated. We're not frustrated." But, you know, they, as you can imagine, blame the media. But also said that at 3:00 when Donald Trump gives his next big rally speech, they promise that he is going to be much more focused in the areas where Republicans want him to focus, Hillary Clinton and all of the problems that she might have on the issues of honesty and trustworthiness, on this Iran situation that we've been reporting on and so forth.

BALDWIN: No. They've got fix this (ph) on message, they have a good to talk about. We'll be listening to Donald Trump in Florida in an hour. Dana Bash, at point reporting, thank you for calling you.

BASH: Thank you very much.

BALDWIN: Now, here in a hot seat, the guy who was White House Press Secretary under George W Bush, Ari Fleischer, welcome to CNN.

ARI FLEISCHER, FORMER PRESS SECRETARY OF G. W. BUSH: Thank you, Brooke.

BALDWIN: All right. Sometimes or not, depending on who are asking. So you just heard, we played the sound of Mike Pence. I mean, we talk about lack of unification within the Republican Party on Trump and I'm thinking, is the ticket unified? You have Trump not endorsing Paul Ryan and his own V.P. nominee saying, yes, strongly endorsed.

FLEISCHER: Well, McKinney was a second part of what Mike Pence said, which he was talked to Donald Trump this morning. He checked with Trump and he said I'm going to -- I want to endorse Ryan and he got the go-ahead. So, it wasn't as if he just said unwillfully and will in 180 degrees opposite my boss on the ticket.

BALDWIN: So we got the green light, but he is still, isn't -- they're not on the same ...

FLEISCHER: Look, it's all a refection of Trump, because with Donald Trump this is a negotiator on everything. So, I think Trump is comfortable saying, "Look, you go ahead and say that, I'm going to move the goal post. I don't want to just come out and endorse my wonder work, you know, to get my support."

So, I can see him playing this game. It is not a big meaningful game because the American people are not going to vote on the basis of what politician did not endorse another politician. They're worried about other things. This is inside ...

BALDWIN: This is in interest and our politician know ...

FLEISCHER: No, this is inside business.

BALDWIN: This is the man who is Republican, were nominees for President and the Speaker of the House who, you know, definitely took on some political hot water and whether or not he wouldn't ultimately endorse Donald Trump. And he did and I'm wondering what do you think is Donald Trump's motivation to not quite go there?

FLEISCHER: To send a signal to Paul Ryan that I'm bigger than you, I'm more important that you and when I become president you better remember it.

It's classic negotiating. You want to make the person you're negotiating with and you'll always negotiate with the speaker, think that I have leverage on you. Trump is all about leverage. I think that's all this is.

BALDWIN: Is that a good way to go into the White House?

FLEISCHER: Well, if you going to have to negotiate, you do want to get things out of people and there's two schools of it. One you go in through accommodation and hope people give you things because you earned them. Sometimes that works in politics, sometimes it doesn't.

The other is you go in with a strong hand. Oh, it's not my style. It wasn't George Bush's style. I don't like it. But I do think you have to stop judging Donald Trump, who are traditional political lens. For one year now, we've known there's nothing traditional political bout.

BALDWIN: Right. What about also what Dana was reporting about, you know, initially hearing about this frustration with Trump and inner machinations of the campaign. And then all of these, you know, top Trump campaign, you know, staffs and advisors all calling her around saying, no, no, no.

I mean, you know, what they are too about the media, and in a lot of times, you know, the Trump folks are throwing media under the bus. But they're the ones, I mean, he has plenty to talk about with Hillary Clinton and yet he's taking, he's taking to task this gold star family.

FLEISCHER: Right.

BALDWIN: It's wrong.

FLEISCHER: Look, after the week that Donald Trump's had where he's made so many self-inflicted errors, if his staff is not frustrated, I'm frustrated. They should be frustrated. And I can tell you something, despite their rallying and calling Dana, they're frustrated.

There is no way anybody with communications on the campaign is not frustrated when the boss doesn't take advice and goes after a gold star family. They are frustrated and they have a right to be.

Now, I think what's wrong is the story that said that Paul Manafort is trying to nail it in and he's trying to push back against Trump any more, that is not true. I can assure you that the inside top people on the campaign are trying to do that, and it is just very difficult because Donald Trump does what Donald Trump does.

BALDWIN: That's I think part of the issue. And we also had heard that, you know, the Trump campaign was reaching out to his long-time friends, Newt Gingrich, Chris Christie, as someone who perhaps he would listen to.

FLEISCHER: Yeah.

BALDWIN: What do you make of that?

FLEISCHER: I think they're in a very bad spot.

[14:09:58] There are only 14 weeks left and he's a two bad weeks in a row. You cannot win if that's your pace. And what Donald Trump has done, he's become such a good counter puncher that at he's about to knock himself out.

Now, he's got to stop counter punching people who are not running for President. He needs to focus on Hillary, and only Hillary, and he can turn over to (ph) Barack Obama because Hillary would be Obama's third term.

But on Friday last week, when the government validated everything that Donald Trump was saying about the weak economy, low growth, bad job situation because people's wages aren't going up, 1.2 percent growth ...

BALDWIN: That's not what he was talking about.

FLEISCHER: Exactly, right. He was having one of those rare moments where government statistics back what Donald Trump is saying, what did he do? Totally off track.

This is communications 101 and Donald Trump is supposed to be good at communications. He's hurting his own cause in a race where he can win. He's going to blow this if he keeps this up not only for himself but for others.

BALDWIN: What about your former boss, George W. Bush, who spoke to a crowd of 400 last night in Cincinnati donors, this is for Rob Portmann, a senator in Ohio. And he was -- he never mentioned Trump by name. Let me quote him. Let me just be precise. He critiques his policies of isolationism, nativism and protectionism at this private fund-raiser. A lot of Republicans listen to President Bush. Why republicans? Why do you think he's not more publicly vocal about his feelings toward Donald Trump?

FLEISCHER: For the same reason he doesn't criticize Barack Obama. He looks at this very seriously and thinks the office of the presidency should be respected and former presidents are formers and they should not weigh on everything little political event that's happening, even the presidential...

BALDWIN: He feels strongly, why not speak up?

FLEISCHER: Because you can also feel strongly about the continuity and the people who come after you have the burden and the responsibility of figuring it out for themselves. And that a former president should let them do that.

Now, I have some problems with President Obama if he constantly jumps into politics from the presidency, I can understand going to at the convention saying it. But if President Obama is constantly becoming a spokesman for Hillary Clinton in this campaign, he is lowering the office of the presidency.

BALDWIN: His approval ratings are pretty strong now and she ...

FLEISCHER: Now, they're moderate compared to recent times, compared to President Bush, yes. But low 50s, it's good enough for the Democratic bases, it's not good for Independent, for certainly Republicans is trying influence. But there's also right or wrong.

There's a graciousness to standing out as a former president or about to be former president, and letting the two people fight for successor to show their own mettle and see what they can do.

And that's the spirit of George W. Bush. I have to wonder if Donald Trump were to win if Barack Obama would stay silent and do what George Bush's graciously done or if he couldn't control himself and would chirp in and chime in everyday. I suspect the latter.

BALDWIN: All right, Fleischer, good to see you. Thank you so much.

FLEISCHER: All good to be with you.

BALDWIN: And make sure the last quick reminder to all of you on all politics, CNN libertarian town hall this evening, Anderson Cooper moderating that with Gary Johnson and William Weld that tonight 9:00 Eastern, only here on CNN.

Up coming next, we will speak live with John McCain's would be general election opponent, we'll get his reaction to all of this, and then Trump's lack of endorsement also for the senator from Arizona.

And breaking news for the first time, an American police officer is charged with helping ISIS. Hear what the feds say this D.C. Transit officer actually did. And, $400 million in cash put on a plane to Iran. Did the U.S. pay ransom? We need to talk about this, explosive details ahead. I'm Brooke Baldwin. You're watching CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:17:33] BALDWIN: Welcome back. You're watching CNN, I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Donald Trump is refusing to endorse a pair of Republican heavyweights, both as we're discussing, House Speaker Paul Ryan and former presidential nominee and current senator in Arizona, John McCain. But why does it matter?

Well, McCain, the incumbent senator in Arizona, is in a pretty tough race in a traditionally red state. The last time Arizona went blue was actually back in 1996 for Bill Clinton. Arizona now an unlikely battleground state in this current presidential election.

The (inaudible) that we watched play out between Senator McCain and Donald Trump paving the way for my next guest. Representative Ann Kirkpatrick, a Democrat who would face potentially McCain in November assuming Senator McCain holds on and wins his primary this month.

So, Congresswoman, good afternoon, nice to have you on.

REP. ANN KIRKPATRICK, (D), ARIZONA: Thank you, Brooke. Thanks so much.

BALDWIN: So, first up here, just on the news today -- I mean, we know John McCain has endorsed Donald Trump, a man who insulted Senator McCain's service as a prisoner of war, as a hero, and is now refusing to endorse John McCain.

What's your response to all of that?

KIRKPATRICK: You know, it's very interesting, isn't it. I mean, you and I were just talking about what an interesting election season this is. And, you know, I guess what surprises me most is that John McCain continues to support Trump in spite of the fact that Donald Trump insulted John McCain's service.

I stood up for John McCain. But, Brooke, what I hear most from people as I travel around the State Of Arizona is that, they're surprised that John McCain won't stand up for himself. And here's what they think. If he won't stand up for himself, he's not going to stand up for us. That's what's really surprising.

BALDWIN: But he did in that statement, in that powerful statement on the Khan family on Monday.

KIRKPATRICK: Yeah. You know, he continues to say he supports Trump over and over again. Over 50 times he's continued to say that.

And look, my heart goes out to the Khan family. They deserve our respect. I'm a mother. I'm a grandmother. You know, I can't imagine, especially Mrs. Khan, the grief, that loss that she feels and will feel the rest of her life. They deserve our respect.

But again, John McCain comes out and says he supports Trump, in spite of the very ...

BALDWIN: But -- forgive me for interrupting you, Congresswoman.

[14:20:00] I mean, that statement, Senator McCain released the multi- paragraph, it was powerful. Do you give him some credit for that statement, for, you know, how emotionally charged it was and how he was standing up for himself and the Khan family?

KIRKPATRICK: He's trying to have it all ways. You know, he can't walk away from Donald Trump. He's continued to say, in spite of. I mean, Donald Trump's been saying, really fateful racist, insulting things for quite a while, and John McCain continues to say he supports Trump. As recently, just a couple of days ago, take a stand.

BALDWIN: Congresswoman, let's talk about your party and the Democrats. Why didn't you go to Philadelphia? Why didn't you attend the Democratic National Convention?

KIRKPATRICK: I've never had the opportunity to go to a convention. I've always had really tough elections in Arizona and I've won them. And we're going to win this election and we know we're out everywhere in the state of Arizona talking with people about what they care about, about education and building a world class education system in Arizona ...

BALDWIN: So the scheduling issue ...

KIRKPATRICK: ... it's about good paying jobs for the 21st century.

BALDWIN: So it was a scheduling issue.

KIRKPATRICK: It's a campaign issue for me. I've always been in Arizona during the conventions talking with Arizonans. That's where the voters are. That's what this campaign is about.

BALDWIN: Okay. John McCain is trying to link you to Hillary Clinton with this ad. I'm sure you've seen it. Let's show it to our viewers.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON: I did not send classified material ...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 110 e-mails contained classified information, extremely careless.

KIRKPATRICK: She's served that very well as secretary of state and I'm a Hillary supporter.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Congresswoman Kirkpatrick, is I understand you're fighting a tough fight and campaign reasons didn't get you to Philadelphia. But is there any reason related to that ad and how he is trying to link the two of you that you did not show up in Philadelphia?

KIRKPATRICK: Well, you know, my opponent will do what he has to do to try to win. But I'm talking with real people in Arizona. Meeting them where they are. And this is a serious election season for Arizonans. People really are concerned about the direction of our state ...

BALDWIN: The question was, is that has anything to do, forgive me, but did that have anything to do with you not showing up and supporting Hillary Clinton in person in Philadelphia?

KIRKPATRICK: No, it didn't. It didn't. It did not. I don't have time to attend to that convention.

BALDWIN: Do you think Hillary Clinton is trustworthy?

KIRKPATRICK: I'm sorry, what was that again?

BALDWIN: Do you think Secretary Clinton is trustworthy?

KIRKPATRICK: Oh, I support Hillary. I mean I've taken a public stance on that and I think she's the most qualified to lead this country. And look, I mean look there is a lot going on. She has the experience, and the knowledge to be president of the United States.

BALDWIN: Congresswoman Ann Kirkpatrick, good luck. Thank you so much.

KIRKPATRICK: Thank you, Brooke. Thank you.

BALDWIN: Thank you.

Coming up next, $400 million, cash, delivered to Iran in an unmarked cargo plane. This happened as we have now learned the very same day Iran released four detained Americans they were holding in Tehran. Was this in any way a ransom payment? The White house facing tough, tough questions about that today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: No, it was not. It is against the policy of the United States to pay ransom for hostages.

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Why those prisoners have been released? Has this payment not been made isn't it essentially a ransom payment then?

EARNEST: No, it is not a ransom payment. The United States does not view it that way. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:28:23] BALDWIN: So the United States sent an unmarked cargo plane filled with $400 million cash to Iran. On the very same day, Iran released these four American hostages.

President Obama approved the deal. The hostages included a Washington Post reporter, Jason Rezaian. He was set free back in January. White House is insisting the $400 million cash was not ransom money.

Senator John McCain, a former prisoner of war himself is slamming this covert delivery. Senator McCain saying, "It is clear that this payment was a ransom for Americans held hostage in Iran". CNN White House Correspondent Michelle Kosinski, grilled the White House Press Secretary on precisely this for more details.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KOSINSKI: It's been called a ransom payment by Iran. That's not exactly surprising. But would those prisoners have been released had this payment not been made at the time that it would? So, isn't essentially a ransom payment then even if the U.S. does not view it that way?

JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: No, it is not a ransom payment. United States does not view it that way. It's not accurate to describe that way.

But this $400 million is actually money that the Iranians had paid into a U.S. account in 1979, as part of a transaction to procure military equipment. That military equipment as it relates to this $400 million was not provided to the Iranians in 1979, because the Shah, Iran (ph) was overthrown.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[14:30:02] BALDWIN: So, joining me now, "Wall Street Journal" White House Correspondent, Carol Lee, first reported the details in the paper this morning and with us, National Security Analyst Juliette Kayyem, a former Homeland Security Assistant Secretary.

So, ladies, Carol Lee, to your piece first, and I want to be ...