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Trump's Frustrating Behavior; Military Mom Booed; Relationship Between Police & Black Community. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired August 03, 2016 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:30:17] ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: So we have some news this morning, and that is that sources are telling CNN that Trump campaign aides, including the highest ones, and some of his backers are frustrated by Donald Trump's behavior in recent days, while Trump is refusing to endorse now House Speaker Paul Ryan and Senator John McCain in their primary races. What to make of all this. Let's discuss it with Ari Fleischer. He's the former White House press secretary for George W. Bush.

Ari, great to see you this morning.

ARI FLEISCHER, FORMER WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Good morning.

CAMEROTA: David Axelrod was just on. He said he's never seen anything like this. A lot of people have said they've never seen anything like this race, but he means that after the Republican Convention, this many sort of diversions, this many feuds, this lack of message discipline. What about you?

FLEISCHER: I hate to agree with David Axelrod, but he's 100 percent right. This is a disaster in the making. Donald Trump's fundamental problem, in a winnable race where he did - could defeat Hillary Clinton, is that he is such a good counter puncher, he's knocking himself out. He has taken the bait and gone after Susana Martinez, he's gone after a judge from Indiana who is an American citizen, calling him a Mexican, and finally the Khans. If he would focus on Hillary, if he would focus on the economy, if he would talk about Barack Obama and we don't want a third time, he could win this race. He's hurting himself and hurting the cause.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: So, if you are in the Republican National Committee right now, if you are a candidate running for Congress -

FLEISCHER: Yes.

BERMAN: In a key swing state or a Republican senator, what do you do?

FLEISCHER: You speak the truth. You differ with him where you have to differ with him, and you say why. I don't think it's hard. Now, at the end of the day, you still have to cast a vote. in my case, I have made my decision. And Donald Trump was my 16th choice in the Republican primary. Hillary is my 19th. Bernie Sanders I find more principled than her. But I would vote - BERMAN: But it sounds like he's getting closer. If she - if he was 16 and she's 19, you're saying there's still a chance.

FLEISCHER: Well, no, I'm going for 16 over 19. That's my point. At the end of the day, when you have to vote, you have a choice between Hillary and Trump. This is not a referendum on only one person. It is a choice. That's what elections are. But I think you can still call Donald Trump out, where he's done wrong, where he's said wrong, and where you differ with him.

Donald Trump is an independent. He is not a Republican. Has never really been one. He's an independent who is different from everybody who has come before and that's why he is willing to break glass and be a disrupter in the Republican Party, in the Democratic Party.

CAMEROTA: But if you can't condone the things that he's saying, then how can you vote for him?

FLEISCHER: Because there is somebody he's running against. And I find Hillary to be absolutely reckless on principle and dishonest. So I worry Donald Trump might turn out to be all those three things, but I know Hillary is those three things. She has a track record to prove it. So there - that's why I'm going to vote for Donald Trump. As much as there are things that I disagree with him, I cannot not vote. I was raised to make a choice and to vote. I think you should do that in this country. But I can't vote for Hillary.

BERMAN: Have you seen any sign over the course of the last, I guess, what are we 14 months into the Trump campaign, that he can change his behavior? That he can be more the candidate that you want and are calling for right here?

FLEISCHER: He's hot and cold. And if he's going to win, he's going to have to stay hot. And he has to stop making these fundamental mistakes, like going after other people. This is my point about counter punching. He took pride in being a counter puncher in the primary. And it worked when he was going against other opponents. The Khan family is not his opponent, even if they say something negative about him. And if he keeps treating everybody in America who says something negative about him as an opponent, he takes his sights off of Hillary. It's a winnable race because of his opponent. It's not a winnable race because of the Khan family.

CAMEROTA: Is he treating Paul Ryan and John McCain like opponent?

FLEISCHER: Look, what he's done here, I think, is not good for him, but it's not the worst thing in the world. You know, he's an independent, so I don't know why people hold him to account the way he should be a typical Republican and endorse Republicans. He's cut from a totally different cloth. He is apolitical in that sense. So this part doesn't bother me as much. But what he should also realize is he needs Republican unity, as much as he needs independent votes. So he's probably still hurting himself. But this is a routine hurt. I'm more worried about the more profound hurts.

BERMAN: What about the leaks overnight from the campaign staff, Air? I mean I know you would never leak. You never leaked ever officially.

FLEISCHER: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: Airtight.

BERMAN: That's my story. I'm sticking to it.

FLEISCHER: Well, it's - that's true.

BERMAN: But my point is, you know these things, you know, are real when they happen. We're not making this stuff up. People are -

FLEISCHER: Yes.

BERMAN: Are telling us that there's disarray in the campaign. They're telling us they feel like they're wasting their time.

FLEISCHER: Well, look, I think there was one story that said they've given up, and I think that's totally wrong. I know a lot of people inside the Trump campaign. I disagree with that story. The frustration part, of course, is accurate. You cannot be anybody who's worked in politics before and see your boss go out and say the things Donald Trump is saying, especially about the Khan family, and not be frustrated. Donald Trump does what Donald Trump wants. There's no message of the day. There's no campaign saying here's what we think you should say and he goes out and says it. He does what he wants. He's his own free agent.

[08:35:01] CAMEROTA: If you're willing to vote for an independent, as you say that you are, if that's what Donald Trump is, why not the libertarian ticket?

FLEISCHER: Because they're going to cut the military too much. I think there are real substantive issues with military - with the approach the libertarians have and I just can't support that. They would - they publically want to devastate the military.

BERMAN: What do you think's happening inside the RNC right now because there is all kinds of crazy stuff out there, a sense that there's buyer's remorse, you know, ten days after the Republican Convention.

FLEISCHER: The RNC did the only thing it could do. The voters in the Republican primary, in a fair process, selected Donald Trump and the RNC has to back the winner of the primary. What choice do they have, to say the voters, the people are wrong and we, in Washington, have superior knowledge and we're right? You can't do that. So it's a bad year, John. This is a terrible cycle for people who believe in less government and conservatism. Donald Trump is changing all of that. But it's a choice, and that's my fundamental issue. So the party is in a bad spot, but I also take a long approach in politics. I remember in 2002, when I was in the White House and the Democrats lost the midterm, unprecedented in a midterm for the party out of power to lose seats, and many White House reporters were saying the Democrats were in disarray. And I remember thinking to myself, they're not in disarray, they just lost an election. You know, this country goes on. Life goes on. Goldwater brought the Republicans down in '64. Republicans came roaring back. Democrats were down. They came roaring back. This election is still winnable for Trump. It's just, will he stop competing with himself and making himself a loser.

CAMEROTA: Ari Fleischer, thanks so much for your perspective and your candor this morning. Great to have you on.

BERMAN: Thanks, Ari.

All right, she called out Donald Trump for disrespecting the military and got booed for it. Next, we're going to ask the military mother who confronted Trump's running mate what she thought of this response you're hearing right now.

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[08:40:47] CAMEROTA: It was a memorable moment this week when military mom Catherine Byrne confronted Republican Vice Presidential Nominee Mike Pence over Donald Trump's comments about that gold star family of a fallen U.S. soldier. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CATHERINE BYRNE, MILITARY MOM: Time and time again, Trump has disrespected our nation's armed forces and veterans, and his disrespect for Mr. Khan and his family is just an example of that. Will there ever be - will there ever be a point in time when you're able to look at Trump in the eye and tell him enough is enough.

MIKE PENCE (R), VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: (INAUDIBLE). It's OK. It's OK.

BYRNE: You have a son in the military.

PENCE: It's OK.

BYRNE: How do you tolerate his disrespect?

PENCE: Well, I thank you for the question.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE).

PENCE: It's all right. It's all right.

Folks, that's what - that's what freedom looks like, and that's what freedom sounds like.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Joining us now is that mom, Catherine Byrne. Her son, Raymond Byrne, is an Air Force serviceman, currently deployed in the Persian -

CATHERINE BYRNE, MILITARY MOM BOOED AT PENCE RALLY IN NEVADA: Raymond Harman.

CAMEROTA: Raymond Harman. Thank you very much for that correction, Catherine. It's great to have you here.

BYRNE: Good morning. Thank you.

CAMEROTA: So, what - what was your plan? What did you want to have happen when you went there to confront VP Nominee Mike Pence?

BYRNE: I just, you know, confronting Governor Pence about, you know, to stand with Donald Trump really confuses me. So I think the - Donald Trump's, you know, the words to the Khan family over the weekend were just so angering and so upsetting. And then the opportunity to have Pence in town and to have the opportunity to ask him a question, you know, straight up about, how can you stand next to somebody who shows such disrespect for the military, and it's just really upsetting. So my - my goal was just to get my voice out there, and ask a tough question at a town hall meeting.

CAMEROTA: Well, you accomplished that, and the crowd booed you after - during -

BYRNE: Yes, they did.

CAMEROTA: And what did they say to you?

BYRNE: I - well, I was - I was surprised. I think I was taken off at the moment. I didn't think they'd get so loud. I mean I knew that I was going to get some opposition, but I didn't expect it to be so, you know, so really explosive.

CAMEROTA: Yes, I mean you just pressed through it -

BYRNE: Exactly. And it actually kind of - the issue is respect or lack of respect. So the crowd kind of answered the question a little bit. Even though Mr. - you know, Governor Pence really didn't directly answer my question about standing, you know, side to side or supporting somebody who's so disrespectful. That's really my question to Governor Pence. And I didn't really get that directly answered, although he did, you know, he - you know, Governor Pence's response to me was very respectful and very thoughtful and I thank him for that.

CAMEROTA: Well, he did say that he honors your son's service and he also said -

BYRNE: Yes.

CAMEROTA: That he had never met anybody more committed to the troops than Donald Trump. What did you think of that answer?

BYRNE: I just don't understand what that means to him because what comes out of Mr. Trump's mouth is just so disturbing, so I don't know how that - how we can call that support of the troops. And to offend our generals, what our generals know, and to offend gold star families is just not the behavior that I was raised being a member of a military family.

CAMEROTA: Catherine, I don't know if you saw this other moment yesterday, and it was when this military veteran presented Donald Trump with his own Purple Heart that he had obviously received for his bravery and his injuries sustained in combat, and he gave it to Donald Trump, and Donald Trump accepted it and said that he had always wanted a Purple Heart. Let me play this moment for you.

BYRNE: Yes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Now I said to him, I said to him, is that like the real one or is that a copy? And he said, that's my real Purple Heart. I have such confidence in you. And I said, man, that's, like, that's like big stuff. I always wanted to get the Purple Heart. This was much easier.

[08:45:10] KHIZR KHAN, GOLD STAR FATHER: Donald Trump, you had the time. You did not serve. You know what you should have done, and listen to me and I want his surrogates to listen to me, you should have pinned that back to that veteran's chest and should have hugged him and thanked him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: So, Catherine, that was Mr. Khan's response to Donald Trump, saying how much he had always wanted the Purple Heart.

BYRNE: Yes.

CAMEROTA: What do you think of that moment?

BYRNE: Well, Donald Trump did not earn a Purple Heart, so I don't think he - he should, you know, have one. But, obviously, he was given a gift by somebody, and that's between him and the gift giver.

CAMEROTA: So you disagree with Mr. Kahn -

BYRNE: But he didn't earn it.

CAMEROTA: Who said that he should have pinned it to that man's chest and hugged him and thanked him?

BYRNE: I certainly wouldn't have accepted a Purple Heart. And I would have - I don't think I would have accepted it from somebody.

CAMEROTA: A -

BYRNE: I just - I wouldn't behave that way.

CAMEROTA: Catherine Byrne, thank you.

BYRNE: Do I think he should give it back. Sure. Sure. I think, yes. I like that he - I like Mr. Khan's response to him, yes.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

BYRNE: Yes. CAMEROTA: Thank you, Catherine, for sharing your story with us and telling us what went into your confrontation there with Mike Pence. Nice to have you on NEW DAY.

BYRNE: Thank you. Thank you for having me.

CAMEROTA: John.

BERMAN: All right, a new deadly police encounter that was on video. Is recording these incidents with police a good idea, or does it just create growing mistrust between police and communities? That's next.

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[08:50:22] BERMAN: All right, Baltimore authorities are investigating the shooting death of a 23-year-old African-American woman wanted on a warrant following a seven hour standoff. Authorities say the woman live streamed part of the standoff and posted video clips to her social media accounts. Here to discuss this, CNN political commentator and author of a new book "Nobody: Casualties of America's War on the Venerable, From Ferguson to Flint and Beyond," our friend, Marc Lamont Hill joins us right now.

Marc, the Baltimore story, the details are a little bit murky, so I don't want to get into the details of it, other than to say she was live streaming it on FaceBook. The police, I don't believe, had body cameras.

MARC LAMONT HILL, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: They didn't.

BERMAN: But it does show the role that video, that new information, that knowledge is adding to this discussion as a whole.

HILL: Absolutely, and it's changing public sentiment. Five years ago, if we heard a story about a woman who pointed her gun at police and was shot, we'd say, oh, my God, the police defended themselves. There would be very little question right now. But because of everything we've, seen like Walter Scott in Charleston, and other places like that where when the videotape emerges, we find that the police story is very different than what we initially thought there's - there's scrutiny. So even when a police officer has a quote/unquote "good shoot," there's still a lot of doubt about it because there's so many bad shoots going on.

CAMEROTA: All right, so now our eyes have been opened -

HILL: Yes.

CAMEROTA: To what's happening out there. But at the same time, we also see that police themselves feel under siege. We see the retaliatory strikes against them after Baton Rouge and what happened in Dallas.

HILL: Yes.

CAMEROTA: From where you sit, what is the answer? HILL: I think the answer is that we have to be able to do two things

at once. When Alton Sterling and the Philando Castile tragedies happened and then we have these police shooting in Dallas and Baton Rouge immediately after, all of our attention was diverted and suddenly we were talking about how to mourn police, which we should, but we stopped talking about the cases of state (ph) violence. More than 600 people have been killed this year by police. Not all of them bad shoots, but, nevertheless, they've been killed. We have to be able to talk about state violence in a sustained way and it's a systemic problem, at the same time that when these outrage things happen like, you know, someone picking off five officers in Dallas, we can talk about that and mourn that and find justice for them too.

CAMEROTA: But can we talk about those two things simultaneously? I mean I know you're saying we have to keep two things in our mind at once, and I think we're capable of that. But how do we talk about better protection for the police, better protection for the community?

HILL: Well, I think that's a great point. I think the problem is that they're framed as competing claims, though. And so anyone who advocates for an end to state violence, anyone who advocates for police accountability, they're framed as people who hate police. And because that happens, we no longer are able to have that conversation.

But I think one thing that helps is surveillance, body cameras, cop watch programs by communities. Those things not only protect the community, they also protect police. If you have a body camera and you're doing all the right things, that helps you as an officer.

BERMAN: That's why officers, so many of them, many of them want them, you know, in big numbers.

HILL: Yes.

BERMAN: Marc, I've got to say, the title of your book is chilling to me. I look at it and it says "Nobody."

HILL: Yes.

BERMAN: "Nobody." And it's also interesting, the subtitle, "Casualties of Americas War on the Venerable, From Ferguson to Flint." You include Flint in there. So tell me about "nobody," -

HILL: Yes.

BERMAN: And tell me where Flint factors into this.

HILL: I went down there to cover the death of Mike Brown on August 10, 2014, the day after he was shot, and I was talking to a woman named Kesha (ph), who talked about how he laid out there for four hours and how a white person would have not had that experience. How a middle class white - black person wouldn't have had that experience. He laid out there for four hours with no help. She said, they left him out there as if he belonged to nobody.

And, for me, that resonated with me because it wasn't just about what happened between Darren Wilson and Mike Brown, it was about the Normany (ph) School District that failed him. It was about Emerson Electric that left town 20 years ago and left him job - him and his community jobless. It was about the Pruit I Go (ph) failed housing projects in St. Louis that create such a pocket of vulnerability in Ferguson. All of this stuff made him nobody.

We have a system right now that renders many of its citizens to be nobody, as if they are disposable. And it's not just when police shoot us with guns, it's also in a town like Flint, where the entire city is being kind of collectively punished for being poor, for being politically disenfranchised, which I wanted to talk about state violence, not just at the level of guns, but at the level of really just disregard.

CAMEROTA: All the experts that we've had on after police shootings or excessive force always say that there is one answer and that the answer is community policing. When you know the people in your community and you know the kids and you know their grandmas -

HILL: Yes.

CAMEROTA: Then you have a personal relationship with them and you can send them home to their grandma's house and it's just more respect. Since everybody agrees that that's the answer, why isn't more of that happening?

HILL: We have a history in society of knowing what works. And early childhood education, jobs, all those things work. They reduce crime. They reduce gang membership. They reduce pregnancy, suicide. We still don't do them enough. Political will is a different issue.

The other thing is, are we willing to financially invest in the kind of policing that can lead to different outcomes? And some of it is ideological. People want to get tough on crime. You - you get elected by getting tough on crime. We had a whole thing on - at the RNC about, you know -

[08:55:04] CAMEROTA: Law and order.

HILL: Make American - imposing law and order. And so when you had that kind of a narrative and you say, hey, I'm going to be less tough on crime and what I should do community policing, it's bad for business.

BERMAN: All right, Marc Lamont Hill. The title of the book is "Nobody." You are not nobody.

HILL: Thank you, sir.

BERMAN: Thank you for being with us.

"The Good Stuff" is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: It's time now for "The Good Stuff." Since the ambush in Dallas where the police back in July were killed, five officers were killed and nine others were injured, well, you can imagine support for police has been pouring in. So let's meet seven-year-old Angelie (ph). She recently set up a lemonade stand. And when it came time to distribute her dimes and nickels and quarters, there was only one place she said she wanted them to go, and that was to the officers of the Dallas Police Department. The grand total, nearly $170. And, of course, she's not the first. Earlier in July, a pair of Dallas tweens raised $10,000 for the Dallas Police Department. They report that often their customers would just skip the lemonade entirely and just drop money off.

BERMAN: That's because the sentiment is priceless.

CAMEROTA: That is so great.

[09:00:01] All right, thanks so much for being with us today. We'll see you tomorrow.

And it's time now for "NEWSROOM" with Carol Costello.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks so much. You guys have a great day.

NEWSROOM starts now.