Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Kasich One-on-One With CNN; One-on-One with Trump Economic Adviser; Trump Names 13 Men to His Economic Team; Clinton Doubles Lead Over Trump; The First Woman to Ever Run for President; Obama's Star- Studded Birthday Bash. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired August 07, 2016 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: The poll comes at the end of what has been quite a tumultuous week for Donald Trump, on his way to move towards party unity in the past several days, endorsing Paul Ryan, Kelly Ayotte and also John McCain.

[18:00:09] There is one Republican he has not won over yet and that is former candidate John Kasich. The former presidential hopeful sent shockwaves to the party when he skipped entirely the GOP convention despite it being held in his home state. He sat down for a fascinating one-on-one interview with our Jake

Tapper.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR, "STATE OF THE UNION WITH JAKE TAPPER": Governor Kasich, thanks so much for doing this.

GOV. JOHN KASICH (R), OHIO: Glad to do it. Thanks for coming here.

TAPPER: So, last time I saw you, it was around the time of the Republican Convention, which you did not attend.

Very interesting result. It's the first convention in modern history, according to Gallup, where more people were less likely to vote for the nominee after the convention than were more likely; 51 percent said that they were less likely to vote for Donald Trump after the convention than 36 percent say they were more likely.

Why do you think that is?

KASICH: Well, look, I think, Jake, in America -- people, even though we have enormous problems, I don't think people want to live in a world of anger. They want to believe there is a better tomorrow.

I got the sense that there was a -- sort of a foreboding out there. And I just don't think that's where people want to be. And I didn't go because I just don't -- I think it is about manners.

You know, if I wasn't prepared to go there and get up and endorse a nominee, I just thought it was inappropriate to go into that convention hall. Here is something, Jake, that's really true. People want politicians

to stand on principle, until the principle they're standing on is not one that they agree with.

TAPPER: Right.

KASICH: Now, what no one should be confused about -- no one -- is that I wrote an op-ed piece about Hillary. I think she is on the bus Bernie is driving, and she is sitting in the back seat. I mean, she is no more than big government.

TAPPER: You said there should be no confusion about -- about your support of Hillary Clinton. You don't support Hillary Clinton.

KASICH: No, of course not.

TAPPER: But you also don't support Donald Trump. So --

KASICH: I have not endorsed him. That's correct.

TAPPER: You have not endorsed him. Do you know what you're going to do when you go into the voting booth?

KASICH: No. We still have time. It's something I think about a little bit, but not a lot.

TAPPER: Have you ever voted for a Democrat for president?

KASICH: No.

TAPPER: You have only voted Republican?

KASICH: Yes. Well, I'm a Republican.

TAPPER: Right.

(CROSSTALK)

TAPPER: Is it possible that you will not vote for a Republican for president?

KASICH: Let's not get ahead of ourselves. This is very disturbing and alarming to me. I should not say -- it's not alarming. I wish that I could be fully enthusiastic. I can't be.

So, I don't know what is going to happen at the end.

TAPPER: You said you didn't watch the Democratic Convention.

(CROSSTALK)

KASICH: I watched just a tiny little bit. I watched all of Donald Trump's speech. And I watched -- I did see the Khan speech.

TAPPER: So, the Khans, obviously, Khizr and Ghazala Khan, their son, Captain Humayun Khan, killed in Iraq in 2004. You tweeted after Donald Trump started attacking the parents and

questioning things about the parents, you tweeted: "There is only one way to talk about Gold Star parents, with honor and respect. Captain Khan is a hero. Together, we should pray for his family."

Trump's response was, he was viciously attacked by the Khans.

KASICH: Yes.

But, look, I didn't see that, but here is what I do want to tell you. As the governor, every year, except this year, because we fortunately have not lost anybody, we have had families of people who have been lost serving their country.

Jake, they come to the statehouse. They gather in the cabinet room. And then, one by one, these families come in to see me.

It is very tough. Usually, there is a picture of their son, or their daughter, or their mother, or their father that is right up there as they come in. I give them a flag. And I sit and I talk to them.

I tell them about the loss of my mother and father in a sudden accident. And I said, you know, let's not compare, but what I can tell you is, I have seen the black hole. I have had the deep mourning and the pain.

But here's what I know. I believe the Scripture when it says that those who give up their life or serve someone else will wear a big crown, that their service is marked in the book of life, never to be erased.

I hug them. There are sometimes some few people will sit in the room with me. Sometimes, a tear gets shed.

[18:05:01] Sometimes, I give recommendations as to how they can find somebody to help them.

It is really tough, Jake. And -- but I am honored to do it, because if there is anything that I can say to these families, anything at all -- and they got kids in there. And their dad is gone or their mom is gone.

It is -- it's just excruciatingly difficult. But I'm so glad I do it. And I'm so glad that they would honor me to come.

TAPPER: There was a report in "The New York Times" that Donald Trump Jr. called you and tried to suss out your feelings, your interest in being the vice president and said you would be able to run domestic and foreign policy. Is that report true?

KASICH: I never got a call. Apparently, my aides did.

TAPPER: Donald Trump Jr. did call one of your aides and have that conversation?

KASICH: That's what the reports are. But, you know -- TAPPER: But is that -- but, I mean, your aide said that that's

accurate?

KASICH: That's what one of them has told me, yes.

TAPPER: Yes, that it was accurate.

KASICH: Yes.

But I never got a call. And that's yesterday, you know? And, again, I said during the campaign, and nobody -- none -- nobody in the press believed it -- you know, I might have been -- I might have agreed to be George Washington's vice president, but I got the second best job in the country, president, governor of Ohio. So, I was never interested in being anybody's vice president.

TAPPER: It wasn't tempting at all?

KASICH: No. You know, isn't that amazing? I never considered it.

TAPPER: Really?

KASICH: No.

TAPPER: Interesting.

KASICH: Why would I want to be vice -- I would be the worst vice president. I have too many opinions, Jake.

TAPPER: You have a lot of opinions.

KASICH: Yes.

TAPPER: That's for sure.

KASICH: So --

TAPPER: Well, because you get to run foreign policy and domestic policy. If that was the pitch, it sounds like a pretty --

KASICH: Well, I am running foreign policy in Ohio. You have got to remember, we have got Michigan on our border, you know?

(LAUGHTER)

TAPPER: You're going to build a wall, I'm sure.

So, campaign chairman Paul Manafort said you were embarrassing your state of Ohio when you skipped the convention in Cleveland. You talked about the pressure that you felt, people telling you, you needed to go, you needed to endorse.

Were there back-channel efforts to get you to come to the convention?

KASICH: No, not really.

TAPPER: And who put the -- who --

KASICH: Look --

(CROSSTALK)

TAPPER: -- pressure on you. Who put the pressure on you?

KASICH: No, no, no.

I mean, people would call who are longtime friends of mine and say, you know --

TAPPER: You need to do this for yourself.

KASICH: Well, they would say a couple things.

First of all, no, you need to support the party. And, secondly, don't give the impression that you're a Clinton supporter. That's this -- kind of this thing, you know?

Well, let me be clear. I'm not, OK? I see four years of gridlock with her, total gridlock and meltdown in economics. I -- OK, so that's one thing. Pressure --

TAPPER: What do you see with him?

KASICH: Well, I see gridlock there too.

TAPPER: Were you surprised when Donald Trump declined to endorse Speaker Ryan, Senator McCain, and Senator Ayotte?

(LAUGHTER)

KASICH: Yes. Well, yes, I thought it was a little bizarre, right?

Let's talk about each of them.

Paul, you know, he is the Jack Kemp mode. He is a guy that's positive. He is a guy who wants to reach out to the people who are in poverty. He is the one that wants to lower the tax code, so we don't punish the successful, build entrepreneurship. Great guy, OK? He used to be an aide when I was budget chairman.

Kelly Ayotte, OK, she is a terrific senator. She comes from New Hampshire. I'm going to go campaign for her. I'm going to do whatever I can to help her.

TAPPER: You are going to work a lot on these down-ballot races?

KASICH: Oh, yes, yes. I already -- I'm all over. I was just in Illinois the other day helping Senator Kirk, raising money for the House Republicans in Illinois. I have been for Senator Paul. I'm going to Colorado.

I mean, I'm doing -- I was in Philadelphia, in a tough race over in Philadelphia. Yes, I'm going to help all House and Senate members, and that's important to me.

Let's talk about McCain. I love John McCain. John McCain is such an amazing guy, not just an American hero, but here is a guy who has served his country well. He is outspoken. He takes orders from no one.

As far as I'm concerned, McCain shouldn't even have to run for election in the Senate. He ought to be in the Senate as long as he wants to be. You know, he is in a tough race out there. I'm going out there. I don't care what it takes. I have got to go out there and help McCain.

And he really, truly is -- for the people that watch this show, he is a remarkable guy. He so loves his country.

TAPPER: Governor, your admiration for John McCain is moving. Your nominee for president, Republican presidential nominee, said John McCain is not a hero; he prefers people who weren't captured.

KASICH: Yes. Well, I don't agree with it. I don't agree with that, OK? I think John McCain is a hero.

Look, Jake, here's the thing. All throughout this, anyone can say, OK, Trump said this, you say that. Why don't you slug him over the head? Look, my actions have spoken louder than any words.

TAPPER: Your refusal to endorse him?

[18:10:00] KASICH: And think about this. I want to know when anybody had a convention at their state, when they were the governor, who didn't go in the convention hall. I mean, some people are really furious with me about that. But I did what I thought I needed to do.

And you know what? I never went in that hall to promote myself. I -- and I wanted -- believe it or not, I wanted to show respect to the nominee. And my going up there and disrupting his deal was not my -- what I intended to do.

TAPPER: Can Trump win Ohio?

KASICH: Can Trump win Ohio?

He's going to win parts of Ohio where people are really hurting. There will be sections he will win because people are angry, frustrated and haven't heard any answers. But I still think it's difficult, if you are dividing, to be able to win in Ohio. I think it's really, really difficult.

TAPPER: What does Donald Trump need to do to get you to vote for him? You have obviously said...

KASICH: Well...

TAPPER: ... that you will never vote for Hillary Clinton. Is there any way that Donald Trump can change?

KASICH: Well, I don't -- it's -- you know, there is so much water over the dam now, it's become increasingly difficult.

But I want, you know, unifying. You know, you can either operate on the dark side of the street, or you can -- you can operate in the light. I believe that America needs people to operate in the light, plain and simple.

TAPPER: Governor Kasich, thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate it.

KASICH: Thanks for the time. I loved it. Thank you.

TAPPER: It's good stuff.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARLOW: Hmm, fascinating interview.

All right. Coming up. He served under President Reagan and Bush 41, and now he's one of Trump's top economic advisers. What does he make of what we just heard from John Kasich? Also, what is he doing to make sure that Trump lives up to this?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I will be the greatest jobs president that God ever created. I will tell you that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[18:15:14] TAPPER: Donald Trump Jr. called you and tried to suss out your feelings, your interest in being the vice president and said you would be able to run domestic and foreign policy. Is that report true?

KASICH: I never got a call. Apparently, my aides did.

TAPPER: Donald Trump Jr. did call one of your aides and have that conversation?

KASICH: That's what the reports are. But, you know --

TAPPER: But is that -- but, I mean, your aide said that that's accurate?

KASICH: That's what one of them has told me, yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: That was Ohio Governor John Kasich telling our Jake Tapper that an aide confirmed to him that Donald Trump's son, Donald Jr., extended an offer or floated the idea by Kasich, at least, to become Trump's running mate. Not only did Kasich turn that down, he is not supporting Donald Trump, at least not yet. And he refused to attend the Republican convention in his home state of Ohio.

Joining me now, senior economic adviser for Donald Trump, David Malpass.

Nice to have you on the program.

DAVID MALPASS, SENIOR ECONOMICADVISER: Nice to be on.

HARLOW: You know Republican politics well. You certainly do, you worked under Reagan and also the elder Bush's administration. You ran for Senate in 2010.

So, let's dig in to the critical state of Ohio, because as you know, no Republican has won the presidency without winning Ohio. When you look at Donald Trump the deal maker, why is he not able to get Kasich on board to make this deal?

MALPASS: You know, he got a very good vice president in Mike Pence, vice presidential candidate, and one of the things to look at is the growth aspect of what's going on in the Midwest of the United States. So, you've got a lot of Republican governors doing a great job.

I really don't think you should look at it as making a deal. The idea was to bring together lots of Republicans and get people focused on a message of growth. And that's what we're doing right now.

HARLOW: So I wonder, when you look at John Kasich's approval ratings, right, he holds 60 percent approval rating among voters in Ohio, Republicans and Democrats. If you look at just Republicans in Ohio, he has 77 percent in terms of his approval rating. It's very strong.

Does your candidate Donald Trump need Kasich to get on board, need Kasich's endorsement in order to take Ohio?

MALPASS: You know, we need everybody to get on board, and especially Governor Kasich has done a great job in Ohio. Ohio has been a state that's creating jobs. You know, around the country, there are a lot of states that wish they were doing as well as Ohio.

And so, it's a critical state to win in the presidential election. And so, I hope that all Republicans are going to see that this is a much better path to the future for the United States than what Hillary Clinton provides. She's not really talking about changing the economic program at all, and so that should cause a lot of people pause.

Why would you vote for the same economic program that's left so many people out of the labor force, created lots of problems for states like Pennsylvania and Ohio? Those are states that produce a lot of energy. So tomorrow in his speech, one of the things Mr. Trump is going to be talking about is the importance of energy growth for the United States.

HARLOW: And we're going to dig into what's expected in that speech ahead tomorrow in Detroit, no question. But before we get to that, let me ask you this. Frank Lavin, former White House political director for Reagan, has come out who wrote this CNN.com op-ed and he's endorsing Hillary Clinton.

Let me read part of what he said. "It might not be entirely clear that Hillary Clinton deserves to win the presidency, but it is thunderingly clear that Donald Trump deserves to lose." He goes on to explain that by saying that Donald Trump is the emperor with no clothes.

So, David, what does Lavin not understand about Donald Trump that you do?

MALPASS: So, there are a lot of people not involved in this process who are not seeing it the way American people are. There is a lot of people, especially in Washington, who are thinking, well, everything is going great.

You know, Washington has had this big income growth for people who live there and work within that system. But for the country, it's not working, and that's what Donald Trump is talking about doing. Major change, improvement in economic policy whereas Hillary Clinton is going to do the status quo, just keep things the way they were. And that's unacceptable.

In addition, you've got to wonder about all the character flaws of Hillary Clinton. You saw just last weekend with her comments on the e-mail. She's still claiming that she didn't send any secret e-mails when the whole country knows that she did.

So, how can you -- how can you really think about that as your presidential candidate? I can't.

[18:20:01] HARLOW: "The Washington Post" gave her four Pinocchios for her answer to Chris Wallace on FOX last weekend, sort of conflating telling the FBI director the truth versus what she told the American people. It's an important discussion and we'll keep having it.

I want to you stay with me, David, because we're going to take a break. On the other side, I want to talk about what we're going to hear from your candidate in Detroit tomorrow on the economy. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: Welcome back.

Donald Trump set tomorrow to unveil his economic plan in his speech in Detroit at the economic club there. Job creation will be a major part of this. It's all about jobs, jobs, jobs in most elections, and certainly in this one it is a big factor.

Let's keep talking about this with one of the 13 men on Donald Trump's brand new economic team just unveiled on Friday. David Malpass is a Trump senior economic adviser, former economic official under Reagan- Bush 41, and also formerly the chief economist of Bear Stearns.

Thanks for being with me again, David. Appreciate it.

MALPASS: Nice to be on.

HARLOW: I want to delve into something Donald Trump said to the "Washington Post" a few months ago. He said, if I'm president, over eight years, if I win, you know, two terms, then I will be able to eliminate the $19 trillion national debt. Every economist that I've spoken with has said that is not possible.

[18:25:03] Is it possible, since you're one of his senior economic advisers?

MALPASS: You know, I think it would be hard to eliminate it. That was a long time ago and it was a very hard-fought primary campaign.

So, what we're doing now is going into the general election with a big message, which is that America can be a lot better than what it's been with faster growth. You know, the latest growth numbers are just 1.2 percent over the last year. So that's a very poor economic performance.

So, one of the things for voters to think about is how are you going to have a better economic future with less of it oriented toward debt? You know, the debt has been going up at a very rapid rate over the last eight years. That's something that's got to stop.

HARLOW: So just to be clear, that's a no, right? You're saying that's not possible and it was part of his -- what he said to win the primary? Is that what you're saying?

MALPASS: Yes, I think we've just got too much debt for it to go away short time period. What we can do is make a lot stronger --

HARLOW: Does it concern you when he says things like that?

MALPASS: You know, he's not a career politician, so one of the things that's going on is he's speaking to the public, to a lot of the American public who wants a major change from the old system. I really do think the system has been rigged. It's rigged for the corporate interests, for Washington, D.C., for New York, and that's got to change.

So, that's going to mean a much stronger financial position for the U.S. government.

HARLOW: So, let's talk about getting a strong financial position for the U.S. government, because I'm seen it firsthand for the American people. I've seen it firsthand on the road, across the Midwest, across the Rust Belt. I've seen the pain these American families are feeling losing these farm jobs, so I get it 100 percent.

Donald Trump talks about putting a 35 percent tariff on goods imported from Mexico and from China, and I just wonder if you think that really will bring those manufacturing jobs back, or does that lead us down a path towards a trade war?

MALPASS: What I really hope people will do is listen to his speech tomorrow and see whether it -- whether they think it's going to create a lot more growth than Hillary Clinton's plan. You know, people aren't looking into her plan the way they are into Donald Trump. She hasn't really said how she's going to make this work to raise taxes on small businesses, to raise taxes, really, on a lot of the American entrepreneurial community and still claim there is going to be growth. There seems satisfied --

(CROSSTALK)

HARLOW: So is that tariff proposal not in there anymore? Is that what you're saying?

MALPASS: There is going to be enforcement of the trade laws against countries that are cheating on their -- on the trade laws. So I think that's an important way to think about how commerce is going to go going forward.

There's been -- go ahead.

HARLOW: Look, it's important. You bring up Hillary Clinton's plan, right, and she has announced what she would like to see, a huge infrastructure spending plan. Donald Trump has said he wants an even bigger infrastructure spending plan, I believe about twice the size of hers, and yes, it all comes down to how you are going to pay for it. There's no question about that.

But I think the question is also being very straightforward with the American people for both candidates, frankly, David, on what jobs are coming back and what aren't? And I just wonder if you think both the leading candidates are being honest with the American people about what manufacturing jobs are really coming back and what manufacturing jobs are not because of globalization and technology.

MALPASS: Well, I think Trump is being honest that what we've been doing hasn't worked and what he's going to do is going to work better. And specifically that can be done with tax reform, trade reform, energy reform, regulatory reform. Those are all things that Hillary Clinton simply isn't aspiring to. She wants to have the program go in the same direction that it's been going in the past.

HARLOW: All right. So --

MALPASS: I think that's where the election has to come down to.

HARLOW: So, David, I want to pull up this screen because you're one of 13 men that has been named to Donald Trump's economic team. This just came out on Friday. And economist Nouriel Roubini, as you know, one of the few economists who predicted the housing crash just tweeted this this morning. "Trump's policy team, a bunch of white men billionaires and supply side nuts who will find policies to help blue collar workers? Laughable joke."

OK. That's Nouriel Roubini's opinion. When you look at the team, there's not a single woman on it, there's not a single African- American. Does that bother you?

MALPASS: Well, the economic program is aimed at making lots of the economy

[18:30:00] work better for the middle class and especially for minorities and youth. They've been left out of the economic --

HARLOW: It's just not representative of the makeup of America. But it's not representative of the makeup of this country.

MALPASS: But -- but are you -- are you saying that every committee that's established have to have exactly the same racial makeup? Of course, we would like lots of input --

HARLOW: That's a great -- let me answer that, David. Let me answer that. I think that's a great question.

MALPASS: Yes.

HARLOW: And no, I'm not saying that. But what I am saying is that if you look at the data and you look at study after study after study, what we know is that companies that have diversity in the corner office, companies that have diversity on corporate boards, are companies that do better financially.

McKenzie, I mean, McKenzie is a company that has high acclaim across the board. 2015 study, they said companies in the top percentile for gender, racial and economic diversity are more likely to have financial returns than are higher than their industry medians. There is no question about the data.

MALPASS: Right. So -- and that's absolutely a core part of how you make America better and how you make the economy grow faster. Trump, you know, his business industries have featured -- have included women at the highest levels. His daughter obviously, Ivanka, has been very involved in creating and thinking about the economic program from the standpoint of how it can make things better for women, for women who are trying to take care of children at the same time that they're working.

That's a core part of the economic plan. And I think that's going to work well. That doesn't mean that every committee that's formed, and some of them are formed -- you know, the campaign is coming together and moving very fast. This is not something that Trump planned to do for a long time.

HARLOW: What?

MALPASS: And he's not a career politician. So what --

HARLOW: But are you saying that it wasn't a well thought-out committee because you're speaking to Ivanka's traits and assets, and I sat down and I've interviewed her, and she's an extraordinarily well in business.

MALPASS: No.

HARLOW: So isn't that argument even more to have diversity on this committee? MALPASS: So this is great committee. This is people that can really

contribute to thinking about the economic program and helping create and make it make sense for all parts of the country. All I'm saying is, there's lots of aspects of this campaign. You know, Hillary Clinton kept touting the idea that she had 800 paid staffers in -- I forget when that was -- in June, and that's something that simply wasn't happening within the -- within the Trump campaign. So what we're doing is building very quickly an economic program that will make -- and announcing the details of the economic program in stages so people will see that there is a better future for the U.S. than what we've been seeing now.

HARLOW: So, David, very quickly, will we see a woman added, an African-American added, do you think? Would that be a good idea?

MALPASS: I think there will be lots more people involved in the economic program. I don't know what that -- what this council is going to have as far as a makeup. Sure, that would be great. And if you have names, I'd love to hear and I'm sure Mr. Trump would love to hear names for people to add. But the key point here is, how do you make America grow faster, and that requires lots and lots of reform and change from what we've been doing.

HARLOW: David, we're looking forward to the speech tomorrow in Detroit, and thank you for coming on with me tonight.

MALPASS: Thanks a lot. Enjoyed it.

HARLOW: All right. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:36:53] HARLOW: A brand new poll out reflects how difficult the last week has been for Donald Trump. A new "Washington Post"-ABC survey finds Clinton ahead of Trump by eight points among registered voters. Her lead has doubled from that same poll last month.

With me to discuss what's ahead, CNN political analyst and senior editor for the "Atlantic," Ron Brownstein, CNN political commentator and Trump supporter, Scotty Nell Hughes, and executive director for the New York Democratic Party, Basil Smikle.

Thank you all for being here.

Look, Basil, I think one of the key things here is, how does the Clinton camp not get complacent? She still has a major headache with the e-mails and her answers over and over on them. And she can't assume the cat is in the bag even in some of these battleground states with the big thread.

BASIL SMIKLE, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, NEW YORK STATE DEMOCRATIC PARTY: Well, you're absolutely right. There are no assumptions here. We can't rest on our haunches and neither can she. And so, you know, one of the things that I think is attributed -- attributable to that bump is that coming out of the convention, we had a very strong message of unity and presidential campaigns are about growth. So I think what you're going to -- what you have seen and will

continue to see is growth, as Donald Brazile now that -- now the head of our party has said that while Donald Trump is making all this noise on one side, Hillary Clinton is quietly running for president of the United States, and I think you'll see just sort of continued growth into November both in terms of her constituency, building her base, but also more and more rollout of policy.

HARLOW: Something tells me no one is quietly running for president of the United States this time around.

(LAUGHTER)

HARLOW: But, Scottie, to you, when you dig into those poll numbers from ABC and the "Washington Post," 73 percent of voters surveyed said they disapproved of how Donald Trump handled the Khan family situation, the parents of that fallen Muslim American soldier.

Here's the thing. Why did he not focus on the 1.2 percent anemic economic growth in the latest GDP support? Why did he not use the week to talk about jobs?

SCOTTIE NELL HUGHES, TRUMP SUPPORTER: Well, I'm not going to be a backseat driver to the campaign, as we've already admitted, he did not handle that situation well. And trust me, those poll numbers are not what we like. But I will say this, the one thing the Trump campaign has that the Hillary campaign doesn't, it's called excitement and originality. It seems like obviously that Hillary Clinton would love to be able fill a room stadiums of people, tens of thousands of people, 10,000, 12,000, 15,000 people like Mr. Trump has this past week.

Instead she's having a real hard time filling up just a few rows in a garage at a tie factory. Then also originality. I mean, Mr. Trump goes and he announces that he's going to do an economic speech in Detroit on Monday. Guess what? On Thursday, an economic speech was announced by Hillary Clinton. I mean, can she do anything on her own? If anything, I wish she would start following his order and actually talking to the press and actually taking questions from them.

HARLOW: Let me get Ron Brownstein in on that one. I mean, Ron, it's an interesting point. Right? I mean, the question has been, throughout, can Hillary Clinton get the, quote-unquote, Obama coalition out in droves to support her, to go to the polls? Does Scottie have a point?

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I think, you know, it's interesting. I mean, the price of passion can be polarization, right? And so what Trump -- what Trump is dealing with is he has -- he has put forward a message that really has struck a chord with a portion of the electorate, particularly within the Republican coalition, when it's raised big alarms among voters outside of that, both on the substance, the idea of deporting undocumented immigrants, temporarily banning Muslim immigration, building a wall.

[18:40:15] But also his kind of personal qualifications. I mean, it is striking that even in this poll, which is so good for Hillary Clinton, like other polls, he is even with her on the economy and terrorism, the two biggest issues, but he's trailing overall. Why is he trailing overall? 60 percent of those in the poll say they do not believe he is qualified to be president and 60 percent say they believe he is biased against women and minorities. Qualifications and values more than the issue debate at this point are the -- I call them the Twin Towers in the way of Donald Trump on the road to the White House.

HARLOW: So --

BROWNSTEIN: And, you know, that is the fundamental problem he faces. And to some extent, what he does to excite and stir that passion kind of makes the problem worse for those who are outside the zone that respond to this very defensive nationalist message.

HARLOW: Basil, at this same point, Hillary Clinton has been on the national stage as a politician for 25 years. Donald Trump is new to the national stage as a politician. So does that give him an advantage to be able to convince undecided voters that perhaps they should take a chance on him, whereas Hillary Clinton, for a lot of voters, they believe they know everything they need to know about her as a candidate?

SMIKLE: Well, with respect to Donald Trump, it doesn't give him any advantage if he is performing the way that he's performing. He has not grown his constituency and his base of support since his primary election. In fact, I would argue that he's lost some ground. There's certainly some polling to suggest that.

HARLOW: But what are -- what are you talking about?

SMIKLE: Well, there was a Gallup poll that suggested that since his convention, that he is actually -- there are people that actually think of him less since his convention than before he went into the convention, relative to say Hillary Clinton who after the Democratic convention she got clearly a little bit of a bounce.

And going back to the enthusiasm comment from earlier, I would argue that there's substantial enthusiasm. She have more votes on -- in the primaries than any other candidate. And when you now have states like Arizona and Georgia in play, that leads me to believe that there is enthusiasm for her out there, and that there are Americans that actually do want to hear these positive policy messages and leadership coming from -- coming from Hillary.

HARLOW: Ron Brownstein, Scottie Nell Hughes, Basil Smikle, thank you so much. We'll have you all back.

All right. Coming up, more than a hundred years before Hillary Clinton ran for president, another woman put the very first crack in the highest of glass ceiling. You'll have to hear this story about how she made history at a time when women could not even vote.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [18:46:16] HARLOW: Welcome back. There have been women on the major party ticket before. Sarah Palin eight years, Geraldine Ferraro in '84, but both were vice presidential candidates. So consider this, more than 100 years before we see this historic moment at the DNC, the first female presidential nominee of a major party was Victoria Woodhull who won the bid for a first -- for the first female president of the United States in the -- in the election back in 1872.

Her party nominated her running mate -- her and her running mate to be one of the most prominent African-Americans of his time, Frederick Douglas. So why have most people never heard of her?

We're going to bring in a woman who can tell us all about it, Myra MacPherson. She is the author of that book, "Scarlet Sisters: Sex, Suffrage and Scandal in the Gilded Age," to talk about the curious case of Victoria Woodhull.

Thank you so much for being with us. And with a title like that, who would not want to read your book?

(LAUGHTER)

MYRA MACPHERSON, AUTHOR, "SCARLET SISTERS": Thank you very much.

HARLOW: My pleasure. It's an amazing story and amazing to hear she ran -- Woodhull ran for president 50 years before the 19th Amendment was passed giving women the right to vote. Why do more people not know this story?

MACPHERSON: Well, can I do a little background first? Because I want to answer that, but basically, as I tell everybody, I think they were sort of a cross between Hillary Clinton and the Kardashians, because she and her sister were incredible self-promoters. And then after this campaign I said there is also a bit of Bernie Sanders in there because they were really radical revolutionaries, and her quote that I really love is she said, we propose revolution whenever the chains of conservatism drop too slowly and leave us chafing under their restraints too long.

The reason that people did not hear about her was she was literally drummed out of the whole history books by one -- no one other than Susan B. Anthony who was the grand dame along with Katie -- Elizabeth Katie Stanton. And at first they thought these two women were wonderful. They started -- these two women who came from the trashiest background. They lied about who they were, where they came from, and managed to earn the favor, if that's what you want to call it, of the richest man in America, Cornelius Vanderbilt, who bankrolled them to become the first stockbrokers in the world -- women. And that's really something. I mean, that's almost even more than even attempting to run for president.

HARLOW: Yes.

MACPHERSON: And at that point, they came up with a novel idea that said you didn't even have to have an amendment because the existing amendment said citizens and not men, and so when she tried this, Bingham, the man who had had the 14th Amendment had written it, he said, no, no. You are not a citizen, and she said, what am I? He said, madam, you are a woman. And so after that, life went on, and she decided to push for everything that no one was pushing for, including equal pay for equal work which we still don't have.

HARLOW: This is true. Myra, it's interesting. Her running mate, Frederick Douglass, not exactly the ideal running mate. Right? He gave a speech for her opponent, Ulysses S. Grant?

MACPHERSON: Yes, in fact, he was appointed by or nominated by the party, and she was all ecstatic about it and he at that moment in time, his house in New York had just been burnt to the ground by arson. And he lost something like 20 years of incredible work that he had been writing. So he literally dissed the group and said I had no interest in running. He didn't even say that. He didn't have to. But they met many years later and he said she was so charming.

(LAUGHTER)

[18:50:08] HARLOW: So I -- before I let you go, I wonder if -- I mean, you wrote the book on her. If Victoria Woodhull was alive today, what would she say about the candidates in this election?

MACPHERSON: Well, I know she wouldn't be for Trump, I mean, because her whole message was an all inclusive. I mean, she really had a rainbow coalition of men, women, American, Native Americans, labor. She really was trying to pull together something that had never been done before.

HARLOW: But would she be fully behind Hillary Clinton?

MACPHERSON: I don't know. I really don't know.

HARLOW: Yes.

MACPHERSON: I think she might have some questions, but I think she would say she has to go and win it. But if I can get -- we have no time for Susan. Susan B. Anthony pulled the lights on her when she wanted to get the support of the women's movement and plunged the place into darkness and that ended her affair with Susan B. Anthony and the rest of the more conservative women in the movement.

HARLOW: Well, I think you've left us all wanting to know a lot more about this woman, Victoria Woodhull. We'll have to read your book for that.

MACPHERSON: And also when she and her sister went to jail. That's something --

(CROSSTALK)

HARLOW: Exactly. She was incarcerated on election day indeed.

Thank you so much, Myra MacPherson.

MACPHERSON: You're welcome. HARLOW: Appreciate you joining me tonight.

MACPHERSON: Thank you.

HARLOW: All right, quick break. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:55:13] HARLOW: Welcome back. You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM. And as you may know, President Obama turned 55 this week. So to celebrate, the first lady threw him his final birthday bash at the White House. The party shockingly closed to the press. The guests even had to check their camera phones at the door. So we can only speculate what went down which is generally not a good thing in journalist but we'll take a chance here.

Our Jake Tapper draws out what he thinks happened in this week's "State of the Cartoonian."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): JFK had Marilyn.

President Obama has Beyonce to serenade him on his birthday, that is. Or so we imagine.

On this birthday, Obama woke up to his highest approval ratings in three-and-a-half years. So we assume guest Ellen DeGeneres with help from guest Kendrick Lamar had no trouble getting the president to hit the dance floor.

We wonder, did party goers Samuel L. Jackson and Will Farrell rock it out?

Billionaire George Lucas was there. Did Lucas bring a present? What does one get the president on his birthday?

In any case, happy birthday, Mr. President. Enjoy yourself. Try not to think too hard about that other thing.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)