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WORLD RIGHT NOW WITH HALA GORANI
Trump Facing Widening Republican Revolt; Erdogan Calls Putin "Dear Friend" Amid Renewed Ties; American Athletes Speak Out About Russian Doping; Israel Accuses U.N. Aid Worker Of Helping Hamas; World Vision Official Arrested Just Days Ago; France Is Fertile Recruitment Ground For ISIS; McMullin: Trump Is "Inhuman"; Trump: "Second Amendment People" Could Thwart Clinton; British Man Accused Of Wanting To Kill Trump. Aired 3-4p ET
Aired August 9, 2016 - 15:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[15:01:03] HANNAH VAUGHAN JONES, CNN HOST: Hello there. Good evening to you. I'm Hannah Vaughan Jones sitting in for Hala Gorani, live from CNN
London. And this is THE WORLD RIGHT NOW.
Donald Trump is back on the campaign trail this hour, trying to rally his base amid a widening Republican revolt. The Republican presidential
nominee is speaking right now. These are live pictures at a rally in North Carolina.
He's trying to shore up his campaign as more and more members of his own party head for the exit. The latest defectors, two former administrators
of the Environmental Protection Agency who came out today for Hillary Clinton.
A prominent Republican senator is also refusing to support Donald Trump. Susan Collins of Maine told CNN that Trump lacks the temperament, the
judgment, and self-discipline to be America's commander-in-chief.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SUSAN COLLINS, U.S. SENATE REPUBLICAN: I'm also very concerned that Donald Trump kept appealing to the worst instincts rather than the best part of
the American people, that he was inflaming prejudices, looking for scapegoats, and worsening the divisions that are in our country.
In the end, I felt that I just could not support a person with those qualities and a person who never seems to learn from his mistakes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JONES: Dozens of other Republicans are also breaking ranks with Trump, and their warnings couldn't be more dire. Fifty national security experts have
signed a letter saying that Donald Trump lacks self-control, can't separate truth from falsehood, and would be, and I quote, "the most reckless
president in American history."
Trump responded by attacking those experts. He called them the failed Washington elite who want to hold onto their power.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE (via telephone): I hadn't planned on using any of these people. I guess for the most part I haven't even
spoken to any of these people because I like to speak to a new group. The old group was not doing it. Take a look at the Middle East. Take a look
at the problems that we have.
The last people I want to use are the people who have been doing it for the last long period of time. So we -- and, you know, they don't feel relevant
because of that.
And they form a group and they go out and try and get some publicity for themselves. They hope that somebody else other than Trump wins because
that way they can get a job.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JONES: Let's get more from Chris Moody in Washington, a senior correspondent for CNN Politics. Chris, good to talk to you. We just heard
there that Donald Trump has dismissed this letter, but how damaging are all these defections that we're now seeing to Donald Trump's campaign?
CHRIS MOODY, CNN POLITICS SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's going to come in a drip-drip like fashion. I think a lot of Republicans wanted to see
how he would respond as a general election candidate, whether he would make a pivot from being someone in the primaries, who threw a lot of bombs, who
didn't necessarily have much control over what he was saying, or so it appeared.
But instead what they've seen is someone who is continuing the way he acted during the primaries. And so that's why you're seeing a lot of Republicans
coming out against him.
We saw one Republican candidate making an independent bid for the presidency, that that might give some other people in the party someone to
vote for as a protest vote because you better believe that.
Even though there is a lot of people on the right and in the Republican Party who struggle with the idea of supporting Donald Trump, they can't
necessarily bring themselves to vote for Hillary Clinton in November.
[15:05:05]So I think you'll see a lot of people either not voting, voting for this independent candidate or maybe even some folks voting for the
Libertarian candidate here in the United States.
JONES: Yes, and what about the House Republicans, the likes of Speaker Paul Ryan, for example, how is he likely to respond to this increasing
division within his party?
MOODY: Well, Paul Ryan's role this entire time has been trying to desperately keep the party together. He made a pretty bold statement
several weeks ago when he quite frankly reluctantly endorsed Donald Trump for president.
The reason he wanted to do so was he wanted to keep the party united, to try to hold on to power. Look, the way things work here in the United
States and elections is oftentimes people vote for president for the same people -- for the same party they vote for the Senate and House.
And the Republicans in the House and Senate know that if they cannot energize people to vote for Donald Trump, they won't be there to vote for
them. So part of this -- for the people who are still holding on to Donald Trump even though they are doing so reluctantly is just self-preservation.
JONES: Chris, we appreciate it. Chris Moody there live in Washington, thank you.
I want to talk now to one of those 50 experts who signed that letter denouncing Donald Trump. Jendayi Frazer is a former U.S. assistant
secretary of state for African Affairs and joins me now live. Thank you so much for joining us on the program.
The obvious first question is why did you sign this letter, what was your motivation?
JENDAYI FRAZER, FORMER SPECIAL ASSISTANT TO U.S. PRESIDENT: Well, my motivation was primarily that his temperament is not such that he should be
sitting in the oval office of the White House with tremendous power.
I say his temperament specifically in terms of his quick dismissal of any criticism, his unwillingness to listen others who doesn't necessarily share
his perspective, and importantly, his belittling of those people.
You can't have a person in the oval office making critical decisions on national security and foreign policy that has that nature.
JONES: You've described him in this letter as dangerous. You know better than me or many of us that any administration is not just one president,
one man or woman at the helm in the oval office, it's made up of many people there. So even though he's embroiled in this very bitter debate on
the campaign trail, is it fair to describe him as dangerous?
FRAZER: I think it's fair to describe as dangerous in many ways. One way is he very much is like a reality TV candidate and reality TV is all about
getting ratings by creating train wrecks, by pitting people against each other, by having -- saying the worst things about each other.
That's kind of the way he played the primaries. I certainly wanted to look and see what happened during the convention to give him further
Secondly, I think he's dangerous because he's pitting Americans against each other. The idea that you would talk about, you know, banning Muslims
is basically religious intolerance.
The fact that he's labeling, you know, Hispanics as illegal immigrants who are dangerous and criminals, pitting Americans. This is a time when the
country needs to come together and be united.
The fact that the people that he's joined into our party, the Republican Party is supposed to be a big tent party. And he's getting endorsements of
the Nazi party and the Ku Klux Klan.
How can that possibly be the type of candidate that you want to have their hand on the nuclear arsenal of the United States? And so I think that he's
very dangerous and very reckless on many levels.
JONES: But of course, one of the things we've seen throughout the campaign so far is that the bigger the hurdle he faces, the higher Donald Trump then
Are you worried at all that this letter could some back to haunt you, if you like? He's already described all of you and the signatories as the
failed Washington elite. This is effectively water off a duck's back for Donald Trump, isn't it?
FRAZER: Well, I agree that this letter can be treated politically, but the motivation wasn't politics. I'm not a politician. I'm a person who cares
about the Republican Party. I'm a foreign policy expert and I'm very much a patriot.
I care about my country. So yes, it's true that he can just go ahead and frame it as the establishment and do the thing that he does, which is to
dismiss anyone who is saying anything that's critical of the way in which he's conducted his campaign and the way in which he's conducted himself.
So yes, I do believe that there could be a political outcome one way or the other, but that wasn't the purpose. The purpose was really my
responsibility. I've been watching this, and I've been feeling that some Republican needs to stand up and say something.
Because this guy is speaking now in the name of our party, and he doesn't reflect the values of our party. And someone needed to say, stop it. So
I'm taking on that responsibility personally.
JONES: How do you bet, though, on him losing in November? And the aim now, as you said there, is to support the Republican Party, but to save the
Republican Party as well come what may after the general election vote.
[15:10:01FRAZER: Well, I think that that's why we have to take a stance now as Republicans. I think that we cannot let our party be hijacked by a
guy who actually isn't a Republican and who is using the worst type of populism to try to, again, propel himself into the presidency.
And so the Republican Party needs to be a principled party and take a stand at this point and say, no, actually, Donald Trump, you haven't reflected
the party. The fact that he would not endorse Speaker Ryan Paul is I think an indication.
It was petty, it was political payback. You don't want a person who has that instinct, who is so thin-skinned, to be in power because there's going
to be many situations as president that don't go his way.
From the point of view that Congress may have a different perspective, other countries may have a different perspective. You need to manage
crises and build consent successes, and he doesn't seem to have that temperament.
JONES: He has of course since endorsed Speaker Ryan. He just didn't do it right away. One brief very quick question for you, will you now endorse
and support Hillary Clinton?
FRAZER: I myself am looking forward to the debates. I watched very carefully the primaries. I watched very carefully the conventions. I want
to see how the debates go to decide who I'm going to vote for. But I do think that we are in a problem because our country is basically two
political parties are dominant.
The Libertarians and the Green Party and others, they have their candidates, but I'm likely to vote either Republican or if necessary
because I can't vote Republican, and that's where I am today. I will be voting for Hillary Clinton.
JONES: Jendayi Frazer, we very much appreciate it, thank you.
FRAZER: Thank you very much.
JONES: My dear friend, strangely, those three words may be giving western leaders some cause for concern tonight. It's because the Turkish president
used that phrase on Tuesday to refer to his Russian counterpart as Recep Tayyip Erdogan and Vladimir Putin met for the first time in a very long
The show of solidarity could now signal that Turkey may be pivoting away from Europe and NATO and towards Russia. Matthew Chance is in St.
Petersburg with this report.
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Is the Turkish president turning to Russia and away from the west? This
highly symbolic meeting in St. Petersburg has raised concerns, as did the warm words of this key NATO ally to his kremlin counterpart. He called
Putin his dear friend several times.
RECEP TAYYIP ERDOGAN, TURKISH PRESIDENT (through translator): My dear friend, Mr. president and I have displayed a joint position showing that we
have the will to show the rest of the world that we will be acting together as friendly countries. The Turkey-Russian relationship will continue to
improve and we believe our relationship is much stronger than it used to be.
CHANCE: That relationship plunged dramatically when Turkish interceptors shot down a Russian warplane near the Turkish-Syrian border last November.
Russia's infuriated president could barely contain his anger. He called it a stab in the back, imposing sanctions on Turkish trade and travel links.
Now, after expressions of regret from Erdogan, Putin's mood appears to have improved. He talks about fully restoring Russian-Turkish ties.
VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): I hope we will manage to achieve pre-crisis levels of tourism and I think that's just a
matter of time. We also discussed Russia's embargo on Turkish goods and construction work. We will work on this and resolve it soon.
CHANCE: After eight months of trade sanctions and bitterness, a diplomatic back flip, almost worthy of the Olympics themselves.
(on camera): This meeting here in St. Petersburg is meant to cement the rekindling of a Russia-Turkey relationship so badly damaged over Syria.
Economic necessity on both sides is almost certainly the driving force. But it's the timing of the visit, the first by President Erdogan after a
failed military coup last month, that's given the meeting extra significance.
(voice-over): Amid a Turkish crackdown on opponents, more than 18,000 have been detained. Relations between Turkey and the west are strained and the
kremlin senses an opportunity. Putin was quick to remind his Turkish counterpart of his early backing.
PUTIN (through translator): I know that I was one of the first who called on the phone and expressed my support in overcoming the internal political
crisis after the coup d'etat. I would like to say again it is our principled position that we will always categorically be against any
CHANCE: Amid Turkish anger at western criticism, Putin's hand of friendship may count for a lot. Matthew Chance, CNN, St. Petersburg.
[15:15:03]JONES: It is day four of the Olympic Games, and a lot of the drama has been happening in the pool. On Monday, American Lilly King swam
to gold in the women's 100-meter breaststroke final.
She trounced her Russian rival, Yulia Efimova, who was allowed to compete despite a previous suspension because of doping. King said her win showed
that athletes could, quote, "compete clean and still come out on top." Efimova took the silver. She was booed before the race and again on the
"World Sports" Don Riddell joins me now live from Rio with more on this cold war brewing in the pool. Don, good to see you. It seems that we
can't even avoid the scandal while the sport goes on. Now we're seeing young gold medalists really speaking out.
DON RIDDELL, CNN WORLD SPORTS: Yes, this is quite extraordinary. Clean athletes, this is the kinds of thing that they talk about amongst
themselves. It's quite unusual to see this being played out in public and athletes making their views so obvious.
As you say, there were boos again in the pool last night. I was there. It wasn't deafening but it was definitely booing. And there is some
speculation that it was actually the other athletes rather than Brazilian fans who were booing Efimova, so that was interesting.
Lilly King definitely making a name for herself by speaking out repeatedly about how she feels. She's also now got the support of Michael Phelps, who
says that athletes should speak up about this.
The IOC now getting involved saying they don't want to be the case. They say it is athletes' prerogatives about what they say. They can't stop
them, but they would prefer them to be respectful of each other.
We saw Efimova in tears last night. She basically feels that it's because she's Russian rather than because she has a doping past that she has been
singled out here. It's going to get worse for her because she's going to be in the pool again, competing again in other events.
And you used the words or the phrase "cold war." We're now hearing that again, Efimova saying, I thought the cold war had ended. The head of
Russian swimming saying exactly that.
I think this is a narrative that is going to continue throughout these Olympics and I do wonder if we're seeing the start of something new.
Athletes speaking out against drug cheats, not just the Russians but drug cheats in general, and perhaps trying to take control of their own sport
and put it in the direction that they're more comfortable with.
JONES: Don, one more question. About the pool, you mentioned Michael Phelps just now and he's looking for some revenge after what happened back
RIDDELL: Yes, 200-meter butterfly, Michael Phelps' favorite event, surprisingly beaten by South Africa's Chad Le Clos. So a bit of a rivalry
between them. The final of that is later on this evening. There's a whole bunch of narrative around this one.
We actually had an entertaining moment where Michael Phelps kind stared Le Clos down in the getting-ready room last night. Le Clos not just famous
for what he did in London but also his over-exuberant father on the sidelines.
A lot of his attention on his family as a result. Le Clos comes into this event in a completely different situation. Would you believe that both of
his parents right now are battling cancer?
Le Clos has said it's amazing what you can do when you have something more powerful to motivate you. He says that in the last 50 meters of his races,
the points at which his body and his lungs are really hurting, that's when he thinks of his mum and dad and that's what he hopes will help get him to
the finish line first this evening.
We will see. Of course, Michael Phelps already up to 19 gold medals in his unprecedented glittering Olympic career. We'll see how it plays out in
that race. Either way, Hannah, it will be very, very interesting.
JONES: Certainly will. Chad Le Clos's father such a character from London 2012, we wish him well. Don Riddell, thanks very much indeed live there
from Rio for us. Thank you.
Still to come on the program tonight, Israel is accusing another international aid worker of assisting Hamas. This time a United Nations
employee is facing charges. We're live in Jerusalem with all the details.
And then later from a resort town in the south of France to the battlefields of Syria. We're on the trail of an ISIS recruiter. All that
and much more when THE WORLD RIGHT NOW continues.
JONES: Welcome back. This is THE WORLD RIGHT NOW. I'm Hannah Vaughan Jones. Israel says it has new evidence that Hamas is syphoning off
humanitarian aids meant for Palestinian civilians.
For the second time in just a week, Israel has charged an international aid worker with aiding Hamas in Gaza. The latest, Waheed Bossh, an engineer
with the United Nations Development Program. Israel says he has confessed to being recruited by Hamas.
Let's bring in Oren Lieberman for more details following the developments for us from Jerusalem. Oren, good to see you. Just update us first on the
developments today in this story and what the U.N. has said in response.
OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: These charges come against Waheed Bossh, a 38-year-old Gazan who worked as an engineer for the UNDP, the
United Nations Development Program that does humanitarian work inside Gaza, for example, rubble removal and helping in the rebuilding process following
the 2014 Gaza war.
Israel arrested Bossh on July 3rd and charged him today with aiding directing that humanitarian aid towards Hamas. For example, Israel says he
helped Hamas build a jetty for military purposes in Northern Gaza.
Israel also accuses Bossh of directing aid towards Hamas in terms of rebuilding, saying that neighbors with large Hamas population would get
rebuilt before those with Palestinian populations. Because of those accusations, Bossh was charged today -- Hannah.
JONES: It is the second time that something similar to this has happened just in one week. Is there any indication yet or how Hamas operatives are
managing to infiltrate international aid organizations?
LIEBERMANN: Well, in terms of these two investigations, as you mentioned, Bossh and the second investigation, which was against Mohammad El Halabi
(ph), there doesn't seem to be an indication between these two investigations that they were coordinated.
Let's talk about El Halabi (ph) for just a moment here. He also a 38-year- old Gazan, was the Gaza director of that branch of World Vision, a U.S.- based humanitarian aid organization.
Israel accused him and charged him with siphoning millions of dollars away from that aid organization and giving it to Hamas' military wing. Israel
says he was a member of Hamas' military wing.
He, El Halabi Israel says worked his way into World Vision because he did some work for the United Nations and because his father worked for the
United Nations, giving him an advantage in the hiring process.
That's how Israel says he worked his way into World Vision, which does millions of dollars' worth of aid in Gaza. The response from both the U.N.
and World Vision has been similar.
Both say they take the accusations very seriously and they're looking with an internal review at how their own mechanisms were bypassed to make sure
humanitarian aid goes where it's supposed to go.
World Vision had a second part to the statement saying they're at least partly skeptical of the information Israel has put out. Let me read this
statement to explain why. This is from Kevin Jenkins, the CEO of World Vision.
He says, "If any of these allegations are proven to be true, we'll take swift and decisive action. Unfortunately, we still have not seen any of
the evidence. World Vision's cumulative operating budget in Gaza for the past ten years was approximately $22.5 million, which makes the alleged
amount of $50 million being diverted hard to reconcile."
That statement is why World Vision is skeptical of the information Israel has put out. Both organizations which is the U.N. and World Vision say
they will cooperate fully with authorities during this investigation and they urge Israel to conduct a fair trial in both cases -- Hannah.
[15:25:13]JONES: Oren, we appreciate it. Oren Liebermann live for us in Jerusalem, thank you very much indeed.
The number of people killed in Monday's attack in Quetta in Pakistan has now risen to 72. Lawyers across the country went on strike to protest
against the assault. Many of those killed were themselves attorneys who were mourning after the killing of one of their colleagues. CNN's Michael
Holmes has more.
MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This morning across Pakistan, the Courts of Justice were silent as the country's legal
community mourns its dead. Quetta's lawyers have been mourning one of their own, the 41-year-old Bilal Anwar Kasi, the president of the
Balochistan Bar Association.
Shot dead early Monday, his body was being taken out of the mortuary of the city's civil hospital when a suicide bomber detonated eight kilograms of
explosive. Scenes of chaos, distraction, and screams of despair followed. The majority of those dead were lawyers including several senior advocates.
A generation of legal mentors, silenced.
GHULAM MUHAMMAD, PAKISTANI LAWYER (through translator): No crime against humanity compares to this. It's very tragic. Our seniors and
intellectuals have been killed and may God reward them in heaven.
HOLMES: Pakistan's lawyers are protesting nationwide taking to the streets, holding vigils, making their voices heard, sometimes by silence.
In solidarity with the victims, this morning the halls of Pakistan's Supreme Court was empty.
The chief justice of the country absent, participating in the strike. Shops were closed. Their windows clamp shot as Quetta's residents grieved
and tended to survivors.
That attack also targeted journalists and doctors, individuals mainly from Pakistan's tiny middle class. Their lives now cut brutally short.
A 25-year-old cameraman, Mahmoud Hassan (ph), among them, a father of four who had worked his way up from a security guard at a local channel, taking
night classes, and sharing dreams of one day appearing on air as a reporter. As Quetta bleeds, its citizens are unafraid and dauntless.
ALI FARMAN, QUETTA SHOPKEEPER (through translator): We strongly condemn the attack. There are those who are trying to destroy our city, our
country, by such actions, but we will not allow it to happen under any circumstances. This is our country. It is our city. It is the duty of
all of us to protect them.
CHANCE: One of the groups that have claimed responsibility for the attack is a splinter group of the Pakistan Taliban, known for attacking soft
targets like churches, mosques, children's parks and now a hospital. A place of healing, now a bloody reminder of one of the deadliest attacks in
the country. Michael Holmes, CNN, London.
JONES: At least 23 people were hurt in Southern China when a dog went on a two-hour rampage. You can see a person fighting off the animal. The dog
struck at victims randomly jumping and chomping down hard on passersby refusing to let go. Police eventually cornered the animal and killed it.
It is still unclear if the dog had an owner or indeed what set it off.
Stay with us. You're watching THE WORLD RIGHT NOW, live from London. Still ahead on the program, online radicalization is a major problem for
the west. We'll look at one French jihadist who seems to know just how to entice his young, vulnerable fellow citizens.
And a young British man is behind bars in the U.S., accused of wanting to kill Donald Trump. But his mother says her son has a serious mental
illness. We're hear from her in just a few minutes on THE WORLD RIGHT NOW.
[15:31:22] JONES: Welcome back. Let's take a look at the headlines in THE WORLD RIGHT NOW. Donald Trump is campaigning in North Carolina today,
trying to rally support as more and more Republicans break ranks.
Fifty Republican national security experts have signed a letter saying Trump lacks self-control, can't separate truth from falsehood, and would
be, quote, "The most reckless president in American history."
Led by powerhouse Simone Biles, the American women's gymnastics team is going for the gold this hour in Rio de Janeiro. The team is competing for
its second executive Olympic title. China is in second place going into this final followed by Russia, Great Britain, and Brazil.
In Afghanistan, 14 people were injured on Tuesday when a suicide bomber blew himself up at a busy market. It happened in the north of the country.
An official says the attacker is the only known fatality. No one has claimed responsibility at this stage.
Two million people in the Syrian city of Aleppo are now living without electricity or water, according to the United Nations, which is calling of
an urgent humanitarian pause in the fighting there. It's warning of dire consequences if access to power and clean water isn't restored.
Flowers and candlelight marking recent tragedies that France has seen much too often. In one of the most recent attacks, 85 people died on Bastille
Day in Nice. Police say the man who plowed a truck through a crowd had been radicalized quickly, and combating that radicalization has become a
major challenge for France.
By one count there are 1,700 French fighters with ISIS in Iraq and Syria. Nice also happens to be the previous home of a top ISIS propagandist. Nima
Elbagir introduces us to that highly effective recruiter.
NIMA ELBAGIR, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A tent in Syria. Home to what French authorities are calling one of the most
successful jihadi recruitment campaigns. Overseen, they say, by this man, dubbed by his followers "The Super Jihadist."
When this man's sister went missing, he documented his search with cameras, a search that took him across Turkey's border with Syria, where he learned
that she was recruited.
FOUAD EL BATHY, BROTHER OF JIHADI RECRUIT (through translator): We couldn't stop hugging each other. I told her, let's go home. She said she
ELBAGIR: He says he found his sister in a villa where the recruiter and his French jihadi brigade were based, an entire fighting force from his
hometown of Nice. The documentary showcases him messianic fervor.
It's this charisma that authorities tell us has made him so successful, responsible for an estimated 80 percent of the French-speaking jihadis
flocking to Iraq and Syria. Fouad says he witnessed (inaudible) effect first hand.
EL BATHY (through translator): When he was speaking, all the guys were looking at him like he was god. They made me think of a guru. They were
ELBAGIR: Promenades in the southeast of France feel a world away from Syria and Iraq. But his childhood home of Nice has proved particularly
fertile recruiting ground, his neighborhood imam describing it to us as an epidemic.
[15:35:08]BOUBOKEUR BEKRI, NICE, FRANCE IMAM: They are transformed in a few weeks. It's like a bomb goes off.
ELBAGIR (on camera): You have described the way that extremism has taken hold in this community as a virus.
BEKRI (through translator): When a virus infects a lot of people, it's a pandemic. You can't use regular pills to cure it. You need bigger
ELBAGIR (voice-over): Through an intelligence source, CNN obtained the latest Ministry of Interior figures for French nationals involved in jihad.
Between May and July, the figures rose by 67 people to 2,147.
This at the height of what authorities have called an all-encompassing security response by the French state. CNN reached out to the French
government for comment but received no response.
Even as Fouad and others like him bravely speak out, authorities say the propaganda team continue to lure in French citizens, at home and abroad.
Nima Elbagir, CNN, Nice.
JONES: Let's get more now on how France is trying to combat radicalization. Marwan Muhammad is the executive director of the
Collective Against Islamophobia in France and he joins me via Skype from the region of Normandy, but asked that we don't share his exact location.
Thank you so much for joining us on the program. You are a French-Muslim, you had to witness the atrocities taking place in your country and of
course, the increased scrutiny there on your religion as well. Why do you think it is that France and French life in particular is so rife for
radicalization right now?
MARWAN MUHAMMAD, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, COLLECTIVE AGAINST ISLAMOPHOBIA IN FRANCE: At the moment, in France and a number of other countries, you have
a number of central problems that make it easy for people to feel disenfranchised. Groups like Daesh are capitalizing on this feeling of
exclusion of a number of our youth that they're experiencing on a daily basis.
So they absolutely need politicians that are either on the far right or populist politicians to antagonize communities. The more excluded, the
more that they feel, the easier it is for these type of recruiters to go at them and tell them, see, the way you were being treated in the U.K.,
Belgium or France, maybe you should come with us.
We'll help you build a sense of identity. That's what the problem is at the moment and unfortunately our government is failing to address the
JONES: You talk about community cohesion and the lack of it. We just heard in that report earlier that recruitment is on the rise in France at
the moment, the Jihadism is on the rise there. What is the government doing in order to try to improve the disenfranchisement that so many young
people, young Muslims in France feel at the moment?
MUHAMMAD: Not much, actually. They focus more on the security response and they say that they have to show visible signs of security by raiding
homes of innocent families. They think that by displaying a tough image on terrorism, they're going to send a signal that they're basically doing
something about it. But they are failing.
Not only are they failing to arrest the recruitments, to stop the recruitment to join ISIS, but they're failing in the sense that they are
antagonizing innocent families. Once you have been humiliated by having your (inaudible), what sort of feeling do you have toward your country,
toward your government?
When you are in the country where, to give you an image, imagine that you could never be part of the Olympic Games, never be part of the society,
could never be an iconic figure representing the society. How do you feel about being French?
Muslim communities are not antagonized by a feeling of nationality, but they are vulnerable and feel frustrated about the way they are depicted in
the media, treated at the political level with a government that is basically ignoring them, treating them like if they were second class
JONES: You've said that the French government, you say they aren't doing enough. What about your community, the Muslim community in France and
organizations like the one that you run as well, what are you doing to try and get more of these youngsters in the country away from possible
recruiters and Jihadism?
MUHAMMAD: So security issues and addressing terrorism is not Muslims' responsibility. That's police responsibility. What we do as an
organization to send the message that Muslim communities are a part of the national fabric is we do a lot of education on the rule of law.
We show that the system is working when you use it and you use it in the right manner. So we send messages to people to come forward if they have
been targeted by hate crime and discrimination.
We make sure that they have the feeling that they are part of wider (inaudible) that they should participate in every aspect of society. You
should feel as a Muslim, man or woman, that there is a problem with the way the country is going at the moment then do something about it.
[15:40:07]Be part of economic issues, be part of artistic projects, be part of social projects at the wide scale level so that you are indeed playing
your role as a French citizen and don't let any politician tell you what you should or should not do, because this is precisely what the far right
wants you to do and what Daesh wants you to do.
JONES: Personally speaking, Marwan, are you offended or threatened as a Muslim in France by the secular nature of the French state?
MUHAMMAD: Well, honestly, I'm worried about the way my country is evolving over time. Personally, I don't feel threatened because I know my right and
I know how to defend myself at the legal or intellectual level. But I feel that our country is taking the wrong route.
Today a group of far right activists has managed to ban an event that was organized for women and children to go to the swimming pool. By banning
them from enjoying that, they are doing something to protect the secular identity of the country.
So we've reached a level of hysteria where we are basically not making any sense anymore and Trump-izing French politics. Except that in the U.S.
context, Donald Trump appears like a crazy fool, trying to take on the political gain.
But in the France context, when you have high level political figures upholding basically the same opinions, it's very difficult to say that this
is far right ideology.
JONES: Marwan, it's fascinating to talk to you. We very much appreciate your time. Marwan Muhammad there, live for us via Skype. Thank you.
MUHAMMAD: Thank you.
JONES: You're watching THE WORLD RIGHT NOW. Still ahead on the program, could this man take on Donald Trump? There's a new independent in the race
and his name is Evan McMullin.
Plus revenge is in the air in Rio de Janeiro. American swimmer, Michael Phelps waited four years to avenge his loss to Chad Le Clos in 2012. Will
he be able to do it, though?
JONES: Let's get back now to the race for the White House and the growing number of prominent Republicans who say they won't be voting for Donald
Independent Evan McMullin says he is the perfect alternative. The former CIA staffer launched his bid for the presidency on Monday. McMullin was a
policy director for the House Republican Conference and he could make some ways in the state of Utah.
He is a graduate of Brigham Young University, which is operated by the Mormon Church there.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
EVAN MCMULLIN, INDEPENDENT U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I don't think Donald Trump is good for this country or is Hillary Clinton. In fact I
think both are dangerous in their different ways. Donald Trump I believe is a real authoritarian. I believe he has no respect for our system. I
believe he's inhuman. I don't think that he cares about anyone but himself.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[15:45:12]JONES: So CNN's political commentator and Republican strategist, Alice Stewart, joins me now live from Washington. Alice, Evan McMullin is
not exactly a household name, is it? So can he really derail the Trump train?
ALICE STEWART, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I seriously doubt that. As you say, he's certainly making waves in Utah. I worked for Ted Cruz,
and Ted Cruz blew Donald Trump out of the water in Utah. Ted had 69 percent, Donald Trump came in third place with 14 percent.
So in Utah, clearly there's no love lost for Donald Trump. But at this stage of the game, he'll have a difficult time getting on the necessary
ballots in order to compete.
But he is a glaring example of the frustration amongst those in the GOP with Donald Trump, feeling that Trump doesn't have the temperament or the
mindset or what people need in order to be president.
And we've seen that day after day, when he has a great opportunity to focus on all of the glaring flaws with Hillary Clinton and her failed national
security policies and economic policies, instead of highlighting her negatives, Donald Trump continues to focus on issues that are not
constructive to the process.
And Evan is a symbol of some of that frustration. That's why he is getting the support that he has gotten to date.
JONES: But of course, he only joined the race on Monday. And a lot of people will be asking, is this practically possible? Can he legally join
the race? Can he financially? I mean, what kind of funds does a candidate potentially need now to join so late in the game?
STEWART: He has said he will have the funds necessary in order to compete. As for whether or not he'll get on all the necessary ballots, it will be
very challenging and in some states he may have support to do so.
But as of now, look, we've already got four people in the race. We've got the R and the D, a Libertarian, a Green Party. It will be very challenging
-- him actually making it further down the road will be a very difficult road to hoe.
But he is going to chip away a little bit at some of the support that Donald Trump has. But more than anything, this is a lot of folks, we know
that some of those that are supporting his candidacy were former Mitt Romney people and people that supported Mitt Romney.
And they're showing their frustration by putting forth a candidate. But at the end of the day, this is not going to be a strong contrast to Donald
Trump. And it's not going to be a big impact on the rate as a whole.
But unfortunately, as a Republican, we're seeing a growing divide amongst GOP leaders, many of them saying they are not going to vote for him and
support him. But for someone to take it to the next level and actually get in the race to challenge him, just goes to show what a big divide there is.
And the work that needs to be done by the Trump campaign, which I hope that they do, in order to unify the party and the ticket, in order to take on
our number one challenge, which is Hillary Clinton.
JONES: Alice, stand by for a second, because I wanted to get your reaction as well to something that's all over social media at the moment. Donald
Trump has just been holding a campaign rally in North Carolina. He's had some words to say about Hillary Clinton. Take a listen. I think we've got
some sound on that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Hillary wants to abolish, essentially abolish the second amendment. By the way, and if she gets to
pick -- if she gets to pick her judges, nothing you can do, folks, although the second amendment people, maybe there is, I don't know. But I'll tell
you what. That will be a horrible day.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JONES: Alice, your reaction to that, he's effectively talking about the second amendment, the right to bear arms, and Hillary Clinton and her pick
of judges. Why is this such a big deal at the moment?
STEWART: Well, because once again, he has an opportunity to focus on something positive, which is his economic speech from yesterday, and then
he goes and sticks his foot in his mouth and says something like this.
Unfortunately, you could see the crowd behind him, many of them supported and liked what he said. But you just can't go around threatening that
supporters who disagree with Hillary Clinton will shoot her.
Just as he shouldn't have during the primary said he could walk down Fifth Avenue and shoot people and they would still vote for him. You just don't
say things like that. He needs to reel that in and stay on message, attacking Hillary Clinton, not making these filthy, I think, threats
He needs to stay on message and this type of rhetoric is exactly the reason why we're seeing people pulling away, feeling he doesn't have the
temperament and the judgment necessary to be president.
Regardless of if they agree on his policies, it's these kind of statements that continue to hurt him. He needs to reel it in, stay on message, and
focus on attacking Hillary Clinton.
[15:50:02]JONES: And one that -- I guess that's one of the reasons why Evan McMullin might be in with a shot here, the fact that there are so many
disenchanted Republicans out there who are opposed to comments like we just from Donald Trump a little bit earlier. Is this all about redefining
Republicanism as well, come what may in November, we need another candidate in there to reclaim that conservative ground?
STEWART: I still think, look, we've got 90 days to go until the election, and a lot can happen. The polls right now are clearly in Hillary Clinton's
favor. If Donald Trump and the Republican National Committee can unify the party and get the people we have on board continuing to stay on board,
there's still a good chance.
The people that have expressed their interest to vote for Hillary Clinton and their lack of support for Donald Trump will do that. We're
unfortunately continuing to see more, but we have 90 days to go. The party needs to unify behind Donald Trump. He is right now the best hope we have.
Believe me, having worked blood, sweat and tears for Ted Cruz, it's difficult to say that. But we need to unify behind Donald Trump if we're
going to defeat Hillary Clinton, because there are important issues that we need to tackle, one being what he was referencing in that statement, making
sure we have conservative Supreme Court justices.
Those are the things that he needs to focus on and the party really does need to rally behind him in order to win in November.
JONES: Alice, we appreciate it. Alice Stewart there live for us, thank you.
STEWART: Thanks, Hannah.
JONES: Staying with a politics in a way as well, a British man is in jail in the United States after being accused of wanting to kill Donald Trump.
Michael Sandford is charged with violating two federal laws including assault and could face up to a decade in prison if convicted.
Sandford says he's innocent. He's expected in court in the next few weeks. His mother says he is a sick young man who needs to come home so he can
receive badly-need treatment. CNN's Phil Black reports.
PHIL BLACK, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Sometimes when Lynn Sanford is talking about her son, Michael, it's difficult to understand how he's
accused of wanting to kill an American presidential nominee.
LYNNE SANDFORD, MOTHER OF MICHAEL SANDFORD: By nature he was a very sweet, very sensitive, very loving lad.
BLACK: This was Michael Sanford, arrested at a Trump rally in Las Vegas in June. The criminal complaint says he tried to grab a police officer's gun
and told investigators he wanted to kill Trump.
SANDFORD: My heart just stopped. You know, I just could not get my head around it. You couldn't believe that this was my Michael.
BLACK: Lynne Sandford says her son has never been violent but is deeply troubled, long suffering with autism and a list of mental illnesses,
depression, anxiety, obsessive-compulsive disorder, and anorexia. At age 14, he was admitted to a psychiatric hospital because he just stopped
eating. From there, he wrote this letter.
SANDFORD: Dear Mom, I'm not bad or evil or naughty, and I never intend to be. I try to be polite. At the moment, I have no death wishes or want to
BLACK: Six years later, Michael Sandford is in an American prison charged with being an illegal alien with a gun and disrupting government business
and official functions, charges he's denied in court.
SANDFORD: Luckily we're not looking at attempted murder, which I believe shows that the police, you know, do acknowledge that this wasn't, you know,
a realistic attempt on Donald Trump's life.
BLACK: In their hometown just south of London, Lynne says Michael moved to the U.S. to be with a girlfriend. His family didn't want him to go and
their worry only deepened as he became increasingly evasive about what he was doing there.
Court documents say Michael was planning to attack Trump for a year that he drove across the country, eventually arriving in Las Vegas, and practiced
at a gun range the day before he was arrested.
(on camera): Have you asked him about what he was trying to do and why?
SANDFORD: I haven't pushed him for details at the moment. He did attempt to do a very bad, wrong thing, but he is not a bad person. And that is why
we want to get him back to the U.K. We want him to get psychiatric help. We want him to see his family.
BLACK: Investigators say Michael told them he expected to be killed while making his attempt at the Trump rally. His family fears he won't survive
long in prison. Their hope is a U.S. court will agree he's a far greater risk to himself than anyone else. Phil Black, CNN, England.
JONES: Stay with us. We'll be right back.
JONES: South African swimmer, Chad Le Clos caused one of the shocks of London 2012 beating the great Michael Phelps in the 200 meter butterfly
final. But few hours from now, Phelps has a chance at revenge. CNN spoke to Le Clos about what it's like to take on a swimming legend?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHAD LE CLOS, SOUTH AFRICAN OLYMPIC SWIMMER: I've always believed that I was the best. Maybe when I wasn't the best, I know when I get on that
block, if I look at whoever I'm racing, I don't care who you are, I believe that I can beat you.
My name is Chad Le Clos. I'm an Olympic swimmer from South Africa. I won the gold medal at the 2012 Olympic Games. Back in 2004 my dream was to
swim like Michael Phelps. When I raced him in the final, it was a crazy feeling because when I touched at the 150, I think I was .5 or .6 behind
When I turned, I looked at him underwater and thought I was him. That sounds absolutely crazy, but I saw myself at him coming past someone else.
He was such a huge inspiration to me growing up. I beat him by 0.05 of a second.
It was such a huge moment for South Africa, to represent your country is a huge honor, but to beat Michael Phelps in the Olympics was amazing.
I've always tried to swim for my family. I have so much more, so many people are proud of me back home. I wouldn't say I'm letting them down if
I don't achieve, but sports is about that.
It's not self-glory. You see me on the thing, but behind the scenes I have so many people to thank for my success. When you're swimming for something
greater than you that helps you achieve.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JONES: We've all been there, running late, maybe caught up in airport security. Most people sigh and rebook their ticket. Not this guy, at
Madrid's International Airport, this Ryan Air passenger hopped onto the tarmac and consulted a driver.
But he hasn't waited long before his throwing his two carry-ons over his shoulders to start running across the tarmac. Well, astonishingly, this
man did manage to board that flight he desperately wanted. He was detained and he will be tried in his destination of Grand Canarias.
This has been THE WORLD RIGHT NOW. Thank you so much for watching. "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" is up next.