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Trump Second Amendment Comment; Clinton Foundation and State Department Ties. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired August 10, 2016 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:00:22] BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Hi there. I'm Brooke Baldwin. You're watching CNN on this Wednesday afternoon. Thank you so much for being with me.

We're going to talk politics in just a second here, but I want to play you some sound. We have word now that this 73-year-old woman in Florida was accidentally shot and killed by police. This was all during this live gun demonstration. Apparently there was live ammo and she was killed. The police chief is speaking. Let's listen.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have extended resources, including the presence of our department chaplains. Recognizing that this incident also affected other participants in the program, as well as many others in our community, the city of Punta Gorda has been in contact with Tiwa (ph) Hospice, who has arranged for grief counseling at no cost. They are requesting that anyone wishing to receive counseling attend a meeting on August 17th at 1:00 p.m. at the Lashly (ph) Community Room at Lashly Marina. To maintain the well-being of our first responders, which includes officer, dispatchers and fire department personnel, the critical incident stress management program has been activated to address their needs.

The Florida Department of Law Enforcement is still in the process of conducting their independent investigation, which was requested by me. This investigation began immediately following the incident and has continued throughout the night. Our department is currently fulfilling all requests that we receive from their investigators. Our department will continue to keep our community informed through news releases, the media and our FaceBook page.

And I will take questions.

QUESTION: Chief, understanding and appreciating that this has been a very popular (INAUDIBLE) the last couple of years, we have to ask, why was your officer using a real weapon in a role play scenario (INAUDIBLE)?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There are certain details that I can't release. What I can tell you is that we were unaware that any live ammunition for this particular weapon existed. We believe that the particular caliber of the weapon used, that there were only blank rounds available to the officer. QUESTION: Chief, can you talk to us a little bit about the officer

himself, his reaction afterwards? He's had any prior investigations here at the department?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What I can tell you, like any other human being, when they have an accident like this, he's very grief stricken. We have officers that are assigned to him to make sure that he's psychologically stable. But at this point, I think he, like the rest of us, are trying to get through this grieving process and just try to support the community.

QUESTION: Have you used a real weapon in past scenarios shoot/don't shoot?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, sir. This - this one particular weapon I believe is the one used in - in -

QUESTION: What was the protocol to check the chamber to see if there was a round in there?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There are protocols that are in place. Again, certain details, because the Florida Department of Law Enforcement is conducting an investigation into certain things as far as what took place and what didn't take place, I don't want to really comment on specific details.

QUESTION: I wonder if, going forward, chief, setting aside the investigation, knowing what you know now, as the chief of police, will you allow a real weapon to be used again in a (INAUDIBLE) academy like this?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The answer is absolutely not.

QUESTION: Can you confirm that it was an office -

BALDWIN: This absolutely tragic event there in Florida. A seventy- three-year-old woman, this librarian, she was a citizen police academy student there at Punta Gorda and she was accidentally hit during the shoot/don't shoot gun demonstration with clearly a live round. She was a librarian. She was described as a saint. We know the officer involved was placed on administrative leave. But just tragedy there in Florida.

On to the race to the White House now. We are waiting for both Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump to take to the stage within the hour for separate rallies. Both candidates facing crowds as they both do some damage control from their own firestorms of controversy. Hillary Clinton embroiled in yet another round of her private server e-mail woes. This go-round, the new batch is raising questions about an alleged cozy relationship between the State Department when she was at the helm and the Clinton Foundation. Meantime, Donald Trump has made an off-the-cuff comment that his critics say is a veiled incitement of violence against Hillary Clinton. Here he was.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Hillary wants to abolish - essentially abolish the Second Amendment. By the way, and if she gets to pick - if she gets to pick her judges, nothing you can do, folks. Although the Second Amendment people, maybe there is, I don't know.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[14:05:14] BALDWIN: For the record, Hillary Clinton made a similar gaffe. This was back in 2008 when talking about her then rival, then Senator Barack Obama.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: My husband did not wrap up the nomination in 1992 until he won the California primary somewhere in the middle of June -

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: June.

CLINTON: Right? We all remember, Bobby Kennedy was assassinated in June in California. You know, I just - I don't understand it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Make no mistake, after she said that, there was a total firestorm over her comments. Not at all too dissimilar from what's swirling around Mr. Trump today. But hours after, Hillary Clinton's 2008 gaffe, she came out and apologized.

Fast forward now to 2016, Trump's reaction to his words is a bit different. For that let me bring in Jason Carroll, our CNN national correspondent, at this planned Trump rally there in Abingdon, Virginia.

Jason, in the wake of these comments at that rally, how has - how has Trump explained himself? How has this played out?

JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, first, let me just say something. When it comes to an apology or even walking back on his comments, you know, I'm just not sure and I think a lot of people would argue that's not something that's really in Donald Trump's DNA. So I would not expect an apology when he takes the stage here later today or even for him to walk back his comments.

You know, he's made so many controversial comments over the course of his campaign. It seems like every time he makes one, then you've got these folks coming out trying to defend or explain whatever it is he had to say. The Clinton campaign very quick to jump on these most recent comments. Clinton's manager saying, quote - campaign manager saying, "this is simple. What Trump is saying is dangerous. A person seeking to be president of the United States should not suggest violence in any way." Trump, for his part, speaking out about this last night, explaining a little bit more in terms of what he had to say and how he says it was perceived.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Nobody in that room thought anything other than what you just said. This is a political movement. There's a tremendous power behind the Second Amendment. It's a political power. And there are few things so powerful. I have to say in terms of politics, there is few things. And I happen to think that if they actually did even bring this up, I think it's a good thing for me because it's going to tell people more about me with respect to the Second Amendment, because Hillary Clinton wants to essentially abolish the Second Amendment.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CARROLL: And, Brooke, I want to try and put this a little bit more in perspective. I spoke to - just before doing this live report, I spoke to a woman by the name of Leah Bailey (ph). She is a long-time Trump supporter. She's taken her seat out here in the audience. She's from Buchanan County, which is close to where we are right now. It is coal county. Her father was a coal miner and her grandfather was a coal miner. Clinton is not very popular in these parts anyway. You remember those comments she made about the coal industry said at a CNN town hall, I believe it was in March, that she was going to put the coal industry out of business. She later backtracked, apologized for that, said it was a misstatement. But this person, Bailey, tells me that's very typical of Clinton. You know, she says that she makes these statements, then calls it a misstatement. The reason why she likes Donald Trump is because she says he's plain spoken. You may not like what he has to say, but he's unorthodox. She still very much supports him.

Brooke.

BALDWIN: All right, Jason, thank you, in Virginia. We'll be looking for Donald Trump.

Meantime, the shock waves from Trump's Second Amendment comments traveling far beyond the campaign trail. Erica Smegielski, the daughter of the Sandy Hook principal Dawn Hocksprung, tweeted a picture of her mother saying this, quote, "Donald Trump, you think gun violence is a joke? Would love to tell you about mom's life and gruesome murder." Erica also talked about her mom during a powerful appearance at the Democratic National Convention in Philadelphia just a couple weeks ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ERICA SMEGIELSKI, DAUGHTER OF SANDY HOOK PRINCIPAL DAWN HOCKSPRUNG: I should not be here tonight. I don't want to be here tonight. I should be home, like so many Americans, watching on TV with my mother, as we nominate the first woman to be president of the United States. But, my mom was murdered. So I'm here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: And here she is, Erica Smegielski. She's also a senior outreach associate for Every Town For Gun Safety and a Hillary Clinton supporter. Erica, welcome back.

ERICA SMEGIELSKI, DAUGHTER OF SANDY HOOK PRINCIPAL DAWN HOCKSPRUNG: Thanks, Brooke. Thanks for having me back.

BALDWIN: Tell me about that tweet. What brought you to say that?

[14:10:03] SMEGIELSKI: For someone to be able to make a joke about gun violence in the world that we live in, in the country that we live in where 30,000 plus Americas are murdered or killed with a gun every single year and countless others are injured, it's distasteful, it's disgusting and it is - I know he likes this word, not presidential of him.

BALDWIN: Not presidential of him. We played the clip from him on Fox where he says, you know, he was trying to just get, you know, rally voters out to the polls. He said there can be no other interpretation. I mean give me a break. Do you, Erica, can you give Donald Trump any benefit of the doubt?

SMEGIELSKI: No. He ended that statement with, "I don't know, folks. I don't know." If he was talking about voters as a presidential nominee, you should know about voters and know how to talk to people to get a voter turnout. That's absolutely not what he did. It was alluding to a threat of violence. That's not the first time he's done that. I'm sure it will not be the last. And, you know, to back that up, the NRA tweets out in support of him just hours later, and then this morning puts $3 million behind an ad in support of him going against Hillary with their continued lies that she wants to abolish the Second Amendment.

BALDWIN: But what about - we played the sound a second ago. What about, Erica, this sound from Hillary Clinton when she, you know, wanted to - was running against then Senator Barack Obama. You know, she was conceding - this was just before she conceded defeat in June. And she, you know, defended her perseverance in a way that the critics then said she alluded to the possibility that Senator Obama could be shot. Again, hours later, the difference, thus far, she apologized. Why has what Trump has done in your mind so much more egregious?

SMEGIELSKI: I think there are a couple of things here. Donald Trump has a history of alluding to violence and encouraging violence at his rallies. Hillary Clinton does not. What she said back in 2008 was specifically referencing a fact which later she realized was in bad taste and did backtrack and apologized for that. So there's not any type of apology that we're going to see from Donald Trump. It's not in his character. He's never done it before. And I'm not going to hold my breath to wait and see if he does it this time.

BALDWIN: You know, we've talked a number of times, and also just listening to you on the stage of the DNC, I know, Erica, you miss your mom each and every day. What do you think your mom would make of this presidential election? On both sides. What would she make of the tone of it?

SMEGIELSKI: She would be so proud of me for doing all that I'm doing for both the gun violence prevention movement, as well as for Hillary Clinton's campaign. She, like many other Americans and other folks around the world would be mortified that we actually have a Republican nominee of someone of such bad taste and character like Donald Trump. She would be doing exactly what I'm doing. She would encourage people to get involved in the gun violence prevention movement. And she would be exactly where I am right now, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Erica Smegielski, thank you, as always. And, again, all these years later, I am so sorry for the loss of your sweet mother. Thank you so much for the time. I appreciate it.

SMEGIELSKI: Thanks, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Let me bring in my panel to discuss all of this here. Carl Higbie is with us today, conservative pundit and Donald Trump supporter and a former Navy SEAL, Ana Navarro, CNN political commentator, and Angela Rye, CNN political commentator and former executive director of the Congressional Black Caucus.

So, welcome to all of you.

And, Carl, just straight to you. You know, we've played the Clinton sound. We've played the Trump sound. And I know that hours after Hillary Clinton, back in '08, you know, hours after she said what she did, right, she apologized. But your candidate went on to Fox, he tried to clarify, but still no mea culpa.

CARL HIGBIE, FORMER NAVY SEAL: Yes. Well, let's be honest, Clinton apologized to the Kennedy family. She did not apologize to the American public. And also she - you know, when Donald Trump came out and said this, he said Second Amendment people. He did not say gun owners. He did not say, you know, firearm owners. He said Second Amendment people. That - those are people who support the Second Amendment. Not all of them are necessarily -

BALDWIN: Has Trump apologized to the Clinton family, just to go with your example?

HIGBIE: Well, he didn't threaten anything against the Clinton family. He just asked that the 100 million Second Amendment supporters in America stand up and do something. And that could be vote. And I think we - I was on with a Secret Service agent earlier, a former Secret Service agent, and he said the investigation is truly in the perception of somebody that they may - may take that as a credible threat is not in what Donald Trump said, it's in the perception of somebody that receives it.

BALDWIN: I know some of it though is so - in hearing Mr. Trump, you know, he goes on and a lot of the surrogates, too, and they blame the media and the liberal media for spinning it and misinterpreting his words. And, you know, they would say, well, the media would never do that to Hillary Clinton. But let me just - for the record, we dug back to 2008 and liberal host Keith Olbermann, he took Hillary Clinton to task over that in '08. Here he was then.

[14:15:24] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) KEITH OLBERMANN, LIBERAL HOST: The politics of this nation is steeped enough in blood, Senator Clinton. You cannot and must not invoke that imagery anywhere at any time. And to not appreciate immediately, to still not appreciate tonight just what you have done today is to reveal an incomprehension about the America you seek to lead. This, senator, is too much because a senator, a politician, a person who can let hang in mid-air the prospect that she might just be sticking around, in part, just in case the other guy gets shot, has no business being and no capacity to be the president of the United States.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Wow. That was powerful in 2008 there. Ana Navarro, what do you think of all of this?

ANA NAVARRO, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Here we go again. Listen, you know, the problem that Donald Trump has is that he seems to do this over and over and over again. Where we hear him say something, then instead of apologizing, instead of backtracking, instead of really clarifying, he tries to get cute, as do his surrogates. The bottom line is, all of us - all of us on national TV, all of us on live TV, all of us who do this kind of stuff say stupid things at one point or another. Now, most normal human beings acknowledge it, apologize, realize that what they have said may be interpreted in a wrong manner that's offensive, and they backtrack and ask for apologies. They show remorse. Donald Trump is not a normal human being. He is Donald Trump. He plays to a completely different tune. And that is why today, instead of talking about things like policy or focusing on some of the issues occurring in the Hillary Clinton campaign, which are also very (INAUDIBLE) -

BALDWIN: Which we will be doing in just a minute. Just, trust me.

NAVARRO: We are, again, again and again distracted by these outrageous things that Donald Trump says. If for no other reason than he wants to beat Hillary Clinton, he should stop making these offensive, outrageous comments that can be open to interpretations that offend a large number of Americans so that we can focus on the real issues at hand.

BALDWIN: Angela?

ANGELA RYE, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: So, a couple of things. One is, I reject the notion that so many reasonable minds throughout this country so substantially misunderstood Donald Trump's comments that we would think that it's not about a potential assassination, it's not about potentially taking out Hillary Clinton and/or her Supreme Court justice nominees, this is about urging Second Amendment supporters to go vote. He clarified by saying he was talking about NRA members. NRA members generally are gun-toting folks, regardless of where they stand on the political spectrum. So I reject that notion and I really take offense to being called stupid because that's basically what I'm being called by this Trump supporter here, and me and several other million Americans who interpreted his statements the same way.

I also want to harking back to what Dan Rather said. He said, not - no - he said, "by any objective analysis, this is a new low and unprecedented in the history of American presidential politics." He talked about the hints of violence. We are reasonable people here. And so it's time for Donald Trump to realize he cannot weasel his way out of this one.

BALDWIN: So, Carl, I want to come back to you, but you just heard what Angela said, right?

HIGBIE: Right.

BALDWIN: So someone - Michael Hayden, the former CIA director, he came on CNN and he said, when you are a candidate, you are not only responsible for what you say, but for what people hear. What people hear.

HIGBIE: Well, right. Yes. And, look, the Secret Service is investigating that now is, what people interpreted that as. They're not investigating Donald Trump, but they're interpreting what they will interpret it as. And, look -

BALDWIN: But to have the Secret Service weigh in -

HIGBIE: Yes.

BALDWIN: That's the first time in this whole campaign that has happened.

RYE: Yes. Yes.

HIGBIE: So here's the difference between Hillary Clinton's comments and 2008 and Donald Trump. Donald Trump solicited no violence. He did not place a credible threat. In U.S. section 18, which defines whether or not they should investigate or should go forward with charges says, was there a credible and up-front threat made. No, there wasn't. It was simply saying a call to action by Second Amendment people. There was no threat. And anybody who thinks that this was an actual threat I think is sadly mistaken and needs a reality check.

RYE: Well, you're talking about millions of Americans and two of them at least - I'm not going to speak for Brooke, but I'm going to speak for Ana in this moment, two of them at least are sitting right here. And I just brought up Dan Rather.

HIGBIE: (INAUDIBLE) reality check.

RYE: OK, well, we need a reality check then and you need a fact check and that's what's about to come to you next because you candidate stays wrong and on the - on the wrong side of the issues and on the wrong side of the truth.

[14:20:08] HIGBIE: OK.

RYE: Your candidate needs to own this if he ever wants to be commander in chief of the United States of America.

HIGBIE: (INAUDIBLE). BALDWIN: Ana Navarro, you get the last word here. You listened to both of them.

NAVARRO: I just - I really do feel, Brooke, like I'm in "Groundhog Day," right? And part of the problem that Donald Trump has is that we've seen this over and over again. He says that Megyn Kelly -

BALDWIN: But it doesn't seem to affect him!

NAVARRO: Megyn Kelly - he says Megyn Kelly is bleeding from somewhere, then he tells us that that's not what he said. He clearly mocks a disabled reporter on video, and then tells us, I don't know what, that the was doing some sort of break dance? So, you know, we hear it over and over and over again from him. Where he does something, he says something, and then he tries to pretend that what he said is not what he meant. We're a little smarter than that and it's getting a little old.

RYE: Yes.

BALDWIN: OK, Carl, Ana, Angela, thank you all so much.

HIGBIE: Thank you.

RYE: Thank you, Brooke.

BALDWIN: You mentioned the Clinton e-mails. We're going there next. Coming up next, new questions about the Clinton Foundation's ties to Hillary Clinton's State Department, including talk of favors, billionaire donors. How do we know this? E-mails.

Plus, just a week after the officers in the Freddie Gray death in Baltimore were cleared, the Justice Department revealing a scathing report about the department and what they did there in Maryland.

And, Trump and Clinton speak live moments from now. Will they address the controversy swirling around them on this Wednesday? We'll listen and see.

You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

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[14:25:27] BALDWIN: Welcome back. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

In a matter minutes, Hillary Clinton is set to speak as she, too, like her Republican rival, is facing a new round of controversy today. As far as Hillary Clinton is concerned, this is all over this newly released batch of e-mails her staff sent out when she was serving as secretary of state. And the conservative group who obtained the e- mails, they say that they show a Clinton Foundation official putting pressure on Clinton State Department staffers.

Here is just one exchange. I know you see a lot of it here. This is redacted. But starting from the bottom up, you see that Doug Band, from the Clinton Foundation says, quote, "important to take care of," dot, dot, dot, this person, and Huma Abedin, Clinton's aide, replies, "we have all had him on our radar. Personnel has been sending him options."

This is just one of several conversations that this group, Judicial Watch, says show undue influence from Clinton's foundation on to State Department staffers. So, how is the Clinton campaign responding to all of this today? On the trail, let me first go to Joe Johns, who is there in Des Moines ahead of this Clinton campaign event.

And so, Joe, the Clinton campaign, I mean they're essentially saying this is much ado about nothing, correct?

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Pretty much. And, look, there are two different, and I thing distinct e-mail issues here that have arisen, at least so far. There's the one that you reference about the person who was apparently trying to get a job. And then there's a second e-mail issue relating to a billionaire Nigerian businessman apparently trying to get State Department access.

So we're gotten a little more detail from the campaign on background about the individual trying to get a job. We're told, on background, that individual actually had previously worked events (ph) for the Clintons at some time, was not a foundation employee, and was not a donor to the foundation, for example.

Not so much more detail on the Nigerian billionaire. But, in general, we do have this statement that came out last night that says, "neither of these e-mails involved the secretary or relate to the foundation's work. Their communications between her aided and the president's personal aide and indeed the recommend was for one of the secretary's former staffers who was not employed by the foundation."

So they are pushing back a little bit on this, but, as you know, this issue of e-mails and Hillary Clinton has dogged her throughout the primaries and continues to be a problem, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Joe Johns, thank you, sir. We'll check back and check in with Hillary Clinton as she speaks there in Iowa.

But let's have a bigger conversation really on - on this impact. As to Joe's point, she continues to be dogged by this e-mail controversy. With me now, CNN politics editor Juana Summers.

Juana, welcome.

JUANA SUMMERS, CNN POLITICS EDITOR: Thanks for having me, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Let's just begin with some of these names. If you're not maybe within the beltway, you have no idea who, you know, Cheryl Mills, who is no longer with her, or Huma Abedin are, these gatekeepers. Can you first just - because they're involved, right, in these e-mails that Judicial Watch is putting out there today, tell me, Juana, just their role, their relationship with Clinton.

SUMMERS: Sure. Let's start out with Cheryl Mills, Brooke. And she was Hillary Clinton's chief of staff when she served as secretary of state. Someone who has long ties to the Clinton network dating back - I believe she was a family lawyer even back in the 1990s. So certainly very tightly woven within the Clinton network. You mentioned that she's not involved with the campaign but still has close ties to Hillary Clinton and the family through the foundation where I believe she sits on the board.

Huma Abedin, on the other hand, who served as, I belie it was vice - the deputy chief of staff rather to Hillary Clinton when she served as secretary of state, is still a member of the campaign and one of Clinton's closest confidants. She now serves as vice chairman of Hillary Clinton's campaign. So these are two women who have been under the microscope really for these last 17 months as Hillary Clinton's campaign has been under scrutiny both for the e-mail issues that we mentioned today, as well as for her use of a private e-mail server while serving as secretary of state.

BALDWIN: So with this latest, you know, nugget that's come out today from Judicial Watch, for those who are undecided, Juana, looking ahead to November and, you know, as these issues continue to dog her, how concerning should this be for the Clinton campaign?

[14:29:52] SUMMERS: I think that there certainly should be some concern. If you look at the polling, you see that roughly 60 percent of voters, if you look at all registered voters, say that Hillary Clinton is not someone they would describe as honest or trustworthy. Now, whether or not there is anything improper in these e-mails that we're seeing out today, which, again, are heavily redacted and we're still learning a lot about, that's got to be concerning if there continues to be this drip, drip, drip, maybe another release coming out