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Police Apprehend Climber Scaling Trump Tower; Clinton: Trump Inciting Violence with Second Amendment Comment. Aired 7-7:30p ET

Aired August 10, 2016 - 19:00   ET


[19:00:08] ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening. I'm Erin Burnett.

OUTFRONT tonight, the breaking news. A dramatic scene in the heart of New York City, a man scaling Trump Tower threatening to go all of the way to the top of 58th story skyscraper. Just moments ago, a dramatic scene, police grabbing him and pulling him into the building, ending the standoff and let's just watch this amazing video. This is as they're reaching outside the window that they've broken up.

He's trying to pass by. As you can see, he's grabbing on and trying not to come in. As they forcefully pull him into the building and still fighting with him there. This man had been climbing for three hours, nearly three hours up the glass facade of this building, from the fifth floor all of the way north to the 20th floor. At first, they had been -- police had been trying to talk him giving up, he indicated he had no intention of doing any such thing and then they suddenly grabbed him and dragged him through a window. That was on the 21st floor.

The stunt mesmerized New Yorkers and frankly people around the world were watching this but on Fifth Avenue below, a standstill, thousands watching and traffic completely tied up throughout the stunt and we are covering the story from every angle including the all-important motive of this bizarre scene.

Brynn Gingras begins our coverage OUTFRONT on the scene in Midtown, New York. Brynn?

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Erin, what you couldn't hear from that video was the gasp that was let out from the crowd here on the ground near Fifth Avenue in Manhattan. Everybody just waiting to see if this man would get safely into that window when police pulled him in. Let's zoom all of the way up there, that is the 21st floor where police were actually able to finally get him to safety after attempting to get him inside at the 16th floor. The man with several large suction cups scaling the side of the building, as you said, Erin, for nearly three hours today.

At times he was removing things from a backpack, throwing them down to the crowd. Again, the crowd gasping in all of those moments and we do know that he told police in discussion with the emergency unit service officers that his name was Peter. He also referenced a YouTube video that police are looking into, titled a message for Mr. Trump. So, these are all a number of things that police are looking into, also currently waiting for a news conference by police. What I am told by sources right now is they are deciding if they're going to bring that man to the hospital right now or place him under arrest. So, these are all things that we're still waiting to hear and questions that of course need to be answered and we should get some more answers momentarily -- Erin.

BURNETT: Brynn, you just referenced a video that they're trying to, you know, we're confirming if it is indeed him, but it is a very bizarre video. He says he's a Trump supporter, but it comes off as a very bizarre, possibly ill person who, in a sense it sounds like a threat to Donald Trump.

GINGRAS: And that was the real scare here, Erin and those are the questions that they're trying to find out right now is what exactly was his motive and another question, Erin. How did he even get up this building to begin with? This is of course presidential candidate, secret service involved, so how did a man able to even start climbing up this building. So, these of course are a lot of questions we're going to be asking when police talked to us very soon among many questions -- Erin.

BURNETT: All right. Brynn, thank you very much. We'll be going back to Brynn as we get more on this.

I want to go now though to Shimon Prokupecz. Shimon, you have been talking to police. What are officials telling you about who this man is?

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT PRODUCER (on the phone): So, we know his name, but we're not reporting it right now. All we know is what police have initially told us that his name is Steve. They believe he's from Virginia and they're basically now trying to learn more about him. We haven't been told what more they know about him, you know, sort of their whole process and sort of their focus was getting him in and now the investigation begins and who he is and what his motives are and, you know, could there have been something much worse? You know, was he up to something else here? They don't think that, but certainly they'll going to look at that, but we do know his name is Steve, we don't know how old he is and we know he made this YouTube video. They know a lot about him right now.

BURNETT: So, Shimon, I'm sorry to interrupt you. But we did just finally we have this video now. I just want to play a clip of it so viewers can see this person and what he said before he did this and then give you a chance to talk about some of the reporting on it. Let me play it.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For Mr. Trump to excuse my manner of appearance. I just don't know how many people will watch this. I'd rather not be recognizable. I'm an independent researcher seeking a private audience with you to discuss an important matter. I guarantee that it is in your interest to honor this request. Believe me, if my purpose was not significant, I would not risk my life pursuing it. The reason I climbed your tower was to get your attention. If I had sought this via conventional means I would be much less likely to have success because you are a busy man with many responsibilities. I'll get my contact information to your campaign.


[19:05:26] BURNETT: Shimon, as you hear him speaking. I mean, this is a pretty threatening and sinister thing.

PROKUPECZ: Yes. But you know, I think right now, I just got off the phone with a source and I think right now they may actually take him to the hospital for some kind of psychological exam. I mean, we don't know what he was up to, and it certainly does sound it, but this guy clearly knew what he was doing, right? So, he had some planning and --


PROKUPECZ: -- who knows if he's done this before, but yes, no, it certainly sounds sinister the way he's speaking. He looks kind of, you know, with what he's wearing it looks threatening. So definitely they'll going to take a hard look at this and try and make sure that he wasn't up to something, you know, something else.

BURNETT: Shimon, please stay with me. I want to bring into the conversation now Jerry Iorio who is outside Trump Tower as this was happening. And Michael Cohen, executive vice president of the Trump Organization also joins me. And Grayson Schaffer with Outside Magazine is also with us as well.

Jerry, let me start with you. You work right there, what can you tell us? What did you see happening?

JERRY IORIO, WITNESS WORKS IN BUILDING ACROSS THE STREET: I just saw a man, when I spun around my desk climbing the side of the building and clearly wasn't a window washer, but at first, it wasn't too alarming until you realized that people were starting to get worried about the guy scaling the side of the building and then I realized the cops were showing up and then it became a situation where it's clearly he wasn't supposed to be there. So, there was a lot of activity around that and that's when the action started to bring him in.

BURNETT: And could you see anything about what he was doing whether the look on his face or what he was carrying or anything, Jerry, from where you were?

IORIO: Yes. He had a backpack, and he had like a water bottle hanging from it, and then what I saw was he took out what looked like a MacBook pro. It was a bigger computer and he threw that to the ground and then he took out what look like a spiral note pad and flipped through two or three pages and put it against the glass to have whoever was on the other side read it and then dropped that to the ground and then he showed the police his backpack and made sure there was nothing else in there and then just went on his way, he was moving left to get away from where they were trying to grab him and continued scaling.

BURNETT: And Shimon, from what you have been talking to with your sources, but he had some sort of message perhaps that was on that spiral notebook, piece of paper that he held so someone could read it inside or what he did with his computer?

IORIO: So, I don't know that they've had an opportunity yet to sort of look at that stuff and review some of the stuff. You know, last I checked they had not been able to sort of look inside his bag yet. And I don't know if they'll going to wait for a search warrant. You know, there are all these other things that they need to do before they start searching someone's, you know, stuff, I guess. I don't yet know anything about this notebook or what was on the computer. So I think, you know, as the night goes on, you know, we'll probably learn more about that, probably, you know, fairly quickly. So that I don't know.

I think the point now is really, you know, they're really trying to learn more about him. And I think the other thing here, Erin, is that they really need to figure out how this happened. I mean, this should not have happened and that building is pretty secure. You know, they do need to balance this whole idea where people can freely enter that building because it does have retail stores and coffee shops and a restaurant, but this should not have happened, and I think that's going to be their big concern now is going to be, how the hell did this happen?

BURNETT: Well, and that is the question, Michael Cohen, you got to have is how the hell did this happen?

MICHAEL COHEN, SPECIAL COUNSEL TO DONALD TRUMP (on the phone): Well, clearly the guy came to the building within which to scale the side, came with all the paraphernalia necessary. I don't know that he started on the fifth floor. I have heard that myself --

BURNETT: The report is that he started on the fifth floor.

COHEN: Sure. And if that in fact true then at the end of the day it's a very large patio area and clearly went to the corner and before anybody was able to approach him he was already high enough that he was unreachable. The police were there virtually most of the day and I do want to say thank you to New York's finest for doing a great job making sure this guy didn't get hurt. There's definitely something mentally wrong with him.

BURNETT: Well, you saw that clip. Do you feel that this was a threat to Donald Trump?

COHEN: You know, I don't know. I'm not law enforcement, but if I had to just go on my gut, I would say no. I just think he's a disturbed young man who was seeking attention. What information he wanted to give to Mr. Trump he clearly could have sent by U.S. postage or --


COHEN: -- he could have made a phone call to the office and just left a message. He didn't need to pull this dangerous and ridiculous stunt and caused a tremendous amount of traffic between 56 and 57th streets.

BURNETT: It really shut down a good part of New York City.

COHEN: During rush hour.

[19:10:15] BURNETT: Yes. So, Jerry, when you talk about that piece of paper from the spiral notebook that he held up for someone to read, when you talk about the MacBook, were you -- did anyone tell you anything about what it might have said or any sort of interaction he had with anyone on the inside of the building at that time?

IORIO: No, I just was looking from across the way and just saw him do that action and it was scary enough because he had no safety harness, but at any point he fell that was what we were really concerned about.

BURNETT: And Grayson, let me ask you this question you just heard Jerry say he had no safety harness and the big question of course is how did he do this? How did he do this, do you think?

GRAYSON SCHAFFER, EDITOR-AT-LARGE, OUTSIDE MAGAZINE (on the phone): Well, it looks like he actually did have a sort of standard, you know, climbing harness on and had four of these industrial strength suction cups that you can, you know, you can order on the internet and he was using a type of climbing, you know, known to big wall climbers called aid climbing where he had, you know, three points of contact on the building at any one common was also anchored in on with the suction with his climbing arm.

BURNETT: So, he knew what he was doing.

SCHAFFER: It looked like he knew what he was doing and it looked like, you know, he wasn't going to tire out and drop off the wall. I mean, at any point if he was tired he could just hang on his harness and so it appeared as though -- you know, this altercation finally ended as the police were able to reach out the window and, you know, clip a carabineer on to his harness and then hollow in that way and pull him with the suction cups still attached to him. So, it looks like it was actually all done with a fair amount of safety.

BURNETT: Chris Voss is with us now, former FBI hostage negotiator. Chris, he had indicated when they were negotiating with him he had no interest in stopping his climb, he was going to go all of the way to the top. So, as you saw they had to forcibly bring him inside by blowing out a window and bringing him in the 21st floor. What do you think the motive possibly could have been in here? All we have right now, you hear what Jerry is talking about, the computer, the spiral notebook with the message for someone inside and that very bizarre video where he said he had a message for Mr. Trump.

CHRIS VOSS, FORMER FBI HOSTAGE NEGOTIATOR (on the phone): Yes, well, you know, you start looking at action is a form of communication and his intensity on getting Mr. Trump's attention here is what is actually disturbing and the lengths that he's willing to go in order to get that attention and this is a tremendous focus, tremendous amount of planning and tremendously unusual for some secretive method. So, the guy is unfortunately, and a little bit disturbing with the intensity and focus that he has on Mr. Trump and the point that he's trying to make here by scaling this particular building. So this guy probably would prove to be a danger if he isn't dealt with. BURNETT: All right. Well, thank you all very much for being with me.

Donald Trump actually is about to take the stage right now, speak live at a rally in this hour. Is he going to talk about this incident that happened today at Trump Tower? And of course, will he talk about the Second Amendment comments that he made last night about Hillary Clinton? And newly released e-mails between Clinton Foundation officials and Hillary Clinton State Department staff. What do they say? These are pretty shocking.

Plus, more on the breaking news of what we're learning about the man who scaled Trump Tower and why he did it. And that fast-moving story right now as he has been apprehended in custody at this moment.


[19:16:47] BURNETT: Breaking news. Donald Trump about to take the stage at a rally in the crucial swing state of Florida at this moment. Trump and Clinton locked in a virtual dead heat in Florida. We are watching to see whether Trump will address his controversial comments that Second Amendment people might be able to stop Hillary Clinton. Clinton firing back at those comments tonight.


HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Words matter, my friends, and if you are running to be president or you are president of the United States, words can have tremendous consequences. Yesterday we witnessed the latest in a long line of casual comments from Donald Trump that crosses the line.


BURNETT: Jim Acosta is OUTFRONT tonight at that Trump rally in South Florida.


JIM ACOSTA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Offering no apologies for his super-heated rhetoric, Donald Trump tried to make the case that it's Hillary Clinton who just can't get the words right.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: She said it was a mistake, that she's going to raise taxes of the middle class. You saw that one? Maybe she misspoke. I mean, we have to give them a break.

ACOSTA: One day after the GOP nominee said Second Amendment activists could do something if Hillary Clinton were elected, Trump is pushing back on any notion that he was inciting violence with this jaw- dropping comment.

TRUMP: By the way, and if she gets to pick -- if she gets to pick her judges nothing you can do, folks. Although the Second Amendment people, maybe there is. I don't know.

ACOSTA: Now, Trump and his backers are scrambling to contain the fallout. Trump insists he was merely touting the power of Second Amendment supporters.

TRUMP: There could be no other interpretation and even reporters have told me. I mean, give me a break.

ACOSTA: House Speaker Paul Ryan thought Trump was kidding, but added, this was no laughing matter.

REP. PAUL RYAN (R), HOUSE SPEAKER: It sounds like a joke gone bad. I hope he clears it up very quickly. You should never joke about something like that.

TRUMP: Blood coming out of her whatever.

ACOSTA: But GOP strategists fear Trump's Second Amendment comment will soon find its way into another Clinton campaign ad using the GOP contender's word against him. Clinton was already looking to take advantage of the remark during a campaign stop today in Iowa.

CLINTON: Yesterday we witnessed the latest in a long line of casual comments from Donald Trump that crossed the line.

His casual cruelty to a Gold-Star family, his casual suggestion that more countries should have nuclear weapons and now his casual inciting of violence.


ACOSTA: Now, of course, Donald Trump would like to talk about the ethical questions facing Hillary Clinton. As a matter of fact, just a few moments ago, they were playing a video on the Jumbotron focusing on just that. But Erin, even Donald Trump's own supporters acknowledge that has not been easy to do these last couple of days, just yesterday, one of Donald Trump's own surrogates texted me a picture of a bottle of pain reliever for migraine relief -- Erin.

BURNETT: All right. Thank you very much Jim Acosta.

And Jim Sciutto is OUTFRONT in Washington. And Jim, you have been talking to your sources in the Secret Service and there are real concerns there about Donald Trump's comments?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: That's exactly right. An official in the U.S. Secret Service tells me that the Secret Service has had conversations with Trump campaign staff regarding Donald Trump's comments yesterday regarding the Second Amendment. In fact, I'm told there has been more than one such conversation on that topic. A Secret Service official tells me that the Trump campaign's response was that the candidate did not intend in any way to incite violence.

I should also add Erin that since then, just a short time ago, Donald Trump tweeted his response saying that no such conversations took place. I can only go back to my source again, an official in the U.S. Secret Service who says that indeed there were conversations between the U.S. Secret Service and Trump campaign staff regarding Donald Trump's comments on the Second Amendment. BURNETT: All right. Jim Sciutto, thank you very much.

And OUTFRONT now, Donald Trump's longtime friend and Attorney Michael Cohen. Let me just start with that. Donald Trump has said nobody in that room thought he meant violence when he made his comments about the Second Amendment.

COHEN: When I heard it, I didn't think he was talking about inciting violence either.

BURNETT: So why then --

COHEN: I'll tell you --

BURNETT: In talking to the campaign.

COHEN: Well, you're making an assumption now that Secret Service was talking to anybody. I highly doubt that Secret Service is talking to anybody let of all, you know, CNN reporters in order to talk about it. I mean, that's why they're called Secret Service.

[19:21:15] BURNETT: Well, they did speak to Jim Sciutto. An official in the Secret Service you heard. I mean, an official in the Secret Service said there had been conversations.

COHEN: Well, he said, a source -- a source that's affiliated with the Secret Service.

BURNETT: He said it was an official in the Secret Service.

COHEN: I highly doubted -- I really doubt that the Secret Service is speaking to Jim Sciutto.

BURNETT: OK. Well, I'm going to stand by his reporting because he says they are. So, they are. But let me just ask you this other question, on this issue of what he meant when he said this. OK. You now know, Michael, the man in the room that was behind Donald Trump when Donald Trump made that comment about the Second Amendment that sort of turned to the woman next to him and his jaw dropped. You can see it right there just so everyone can see it again and his jaw drops and then he sort of gives a laugh. He came on CNN today and was asked what he thought about that comment and here is what he said.


DARRELL VICKERS, MAN ON VIDEO PROTECTING TRUMP: I was just absolutely taken aghast. Down here in the south we -- we don't curse in front of women. We don't drink liquor in front of the preacher and we don't make jokes like that in public.


BURNETT: Clearly some people thought he meant violence or was joking about violence. Why not just come out and say, if anyone thought that, I am sorry. COHEN: Erin, he's only one person. I listened to it. I didn't think

he was inciting violence. I didn't think he was talking about anybody causing any bodily harm to Hillary Clinton. You know, what this is -- in all fairness, this is the disgraceful, disgusting liberal mainstream media once again to detract from what's really the issue here. Breaking news, right? Donald Trump makes a joke, a bad joke or he's misinterpreted. The bottom-line is, what they're trying to do is distract from these 44 e-mails that's really a serious thorn in the side of, you know, our liar in chief, right? Who is sitting there and basically wants to push it as far down the news cycle as she possibly can so that she doesn't have to respond to it.

BURNETT: So, on that I want to make sure you know we're devoting just as much time to her e-mails tonight on the show --

COHEN: I will not leave this chair until we finish.

BURNETT: Well, in this show. But I want to ask you because you say the media is making this an issue. Peter King is a supporter of Donald Trump. All right? He's come out in favor of him. He thinks that he should apologize. All right? Let me just play Peter King for you.


REP. PETER KING (R), NEW YORK: I think it was a dumb remark. Are you saying, was he negligent in saying it? Absolutely. He should take it back and make it clear he's taking it back.


BURNETT: Again, why not? What is so hard about saying, I didn't mean that. I'm sorry to anyone who thought I did?

COHEN: You can't apologize to the whole world for their misinterpretation. Let me just tell you --

BURNETT: But we are talking about something that was misinterpreted as violence.

COHEN: Here are some of the terms that the CNN reporter used on this specific topic, right? The super-heated rhetoric, the jaw-dropping comments, right? How do you interpret that? Because I know how I interpret it, maybe we should bring the same individual on to ask him what he thinks about a jaw-dropping rhetoric, right? It is so ridiculous. The whole notion of this -- of this segment is ridiculous. We need to be focusing on the most important things which is the American people, jobs, economy, national security and we need to be talking about Hillary Clinton and being truthful.

BURNETT: You are right that those are important things to focus and perhaps we could focus them more if Donald Trump did not continually say these sorts of things.

COHEN: Well, people misinterpret what he said. People misinterpret what he said. BURNETT: Let me play for you the former CIA Chief Michael Hayden who

by the way has been very critical of Hillary Clinton today receiving briefings in an op-ed, also critical of Donald Trump. Here is what he had to say about Donald Trump's comments and the Second Amendment.


GEN. MICHAEL HAYDEN, FORMER CIA DIRECTOR: You are not just responsible for what you say. You are responsible for what people hear.


BURNETT: Doesn't he have a point? If you want to be president of the United States and you say something that could be interpreted as going out and committing violence against an opponent to say, I did not mean that?

COHEN: Donald Trump is responsible for what people hear? Right. I mean, people will hear what they want to hear. People will think what they want to think. Donald Trump in my opinion, was very clear in terms of what he was talking about which is that the people who are very supportive of Second Amendment and it's a very big issue to a lot of people should ensure to show up to the polls and vote her out.

BURNETT: OK. But that isn't what he said. If he had said, they should go to the polls and vote her out, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

COHEN: Donald Trump is --

BURNETT: But he didn't say that. He said, they can do something about it. That's what he said which is different.

COHEN: OK. Can we focus on the 44 e-mails and the trustworthy or untrustworthy factor that even CNN in its own poll showing 64 percent of the people do not find her trustworthy? Now I'm shocked because I would suspect that it's substantially higher than that. This is a pay to play series of e-mails and I'm hoping that the same people that are saying that Donald Trump made this statement will turn around and read the e-mails for themselves and interpret it the way that I'm interpreting it which is this is an absolute, 100 percent pay to play.

[19:26:15] BURNETT: OK. So on that issue and we're going to talk much more about this but one of the e-mails that I believe you're referring to that we're going to talk about it in a moment in our next segment was a Clinton donor, someone that worked for the CGI or the Clinton Foundation reached out to the State Department, aides to Hillary Clinton requested a meeting for a big donor.

Now, that meeting was with at the time a former ambassador from Lebanon. That ambassador says that meeting never happened. So the e- mail requesting it came out, but the favor was then never rendered. So in that case that would not appear to be a quid pro quo or a pay to play.

COHEN: Right. I wasn't even referring to that one. I was referring to the Lebanese billionaire.

BURNETT: That's the one I'm talking about.

COHEN: The Lebanese billionaire.

BURNETT: That's the one I'm talking about.

COHEN: Somewhere between one to $5 billion and as far as my reading of it, it absolutely is 100 percent a pay to play.

BURNETT: They requested a meeting on.

COHEN: Anthony Weiner's wife, Huma Abedin. This is exactly --

BURNETT: I am just saying, that meeting was requested with the former ambassador.

COHEN: This is why people are never --

BURNETT: According to the Lebanese billionaire, the meeting never happened according to that ambassador.

COHEN: According to that ambassador but this is why they're calling Hillary Clinton --

BURNETT: Right. But are you trying to say he's a liar?

COHEN: -- the secretary of status quo. They're trying to keep their power. You cannot be part of the State Department and be part of the Clinton Global Initiative to be taking money from donors, least of all billionaires that are looking to influence their power, right, somehow in order to assert some sort of a need in Lebanon for some property or some company that he's involved with. So, the fact that these emails exists, I'm not going to get into whether --

BURNETT: The email exists but again if the favor did not happen. Then there is no pay to play.

COHEN: Do you have an email that turns around and says, we cannot do this that this is illegal and immoral?

BURNETT: I have the person with whom that meeting was requested. They never received a request for a meeting and the meeting never happened.

COHEN: So, this e-mail doesn't exist either?

BURNETT: No, that e-mail exists but what it requested never happened. So, some could send -- someone could send you and Donald Trump an e- mail tomorrow and asking him to do a favor, he doesn't respond and it doesn't happen.

COHEN: Somebody that gave you $5 million that pledged a billion dollars to your Clinton Global Initiative.

BURNETT: That person did not receive the favor. COHEN: This is not some random guy that turns around and sends some

ridiculous e-mail to Mr. Trump or to me or to anybody. This is a guy who is a number one Clinton Foundation donor who is asking for --

BURNETT: Right. You keep saying the same point, but what I'm saying is, he didn't get the favor.

COHEN: Says who?

BURNETT: Says the man with whom the favor was requested.

COHEN: Do you really think that he's going to turn around and tell you if it was or it wasn't.

BURNETT: Well, I'm not going to assume he's going to come out in point-blank lie to the American people, no, I'm not going to assume that. But I can simply say that he said that no meeting was ever requested of him and no meeting ever occurred. That he never spoke to this Lebanese --

COHEN: What was the point of the e-mail then?

BURNETT: The e-mail may have requested a favor, right? But the favor didn't happen. I'm simply saying this happens every single day.

COHEN: They know that Hillary Clinton is for sale. They know that she wants to maintain status quo --

BURNETT: If she were for sale, the favor would have been given.

COHEN: How do you know that it wasn't given?

BURNETT: Because he says it wasn't. So, you are now calling multiple people a liar. I mean --

COHEN: I absolutely will call him a liar. There's no doubt in my mind that this man who pledged a billion dollars that wanted Hillary Clinton and the State Department to inner see on behalf of him in Lebanon, 100 percent got exactly what he wanted.

BURNETT: He is not the man who is saying it didn't happen, the man with whom it was requested, they reached out on behalf of the Lebanese individual, they requested a meeting with what at the time was assistant secretary of state, a former ambassador.

COHEN: Do you not think that these e-mails --

BURNETT: We'll going to keep saying the same thing again and again.

COHEN: Don't they smell wrong, don't they give the whole notion that there's impropriety going on that somebody is giving money for a favor. I mean, that's exactly the problem.

BURNETT: There are serious questions about the e-mails, but in the case of the one we are talking about it appears no favor was ever rendered. So -- COHEN: It appears.

BURNETT: We're going to leave it there for now. But we're going to keep talking about this, I mean, as it --

COHEN: But we should because the American people are sick and tired of what's going on with Washington.