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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Report Reveals Racial Bias in Baltimore Police Department; A 73-Year-Old Woman Accidentally Killed in Practice Police Drill. Aired 12:30-1p EST

Aired August 10, 2016 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: ... the officials need to see. But where is this pretty damning. They look pretty damning. And there have been a big echo chamber saying, "Corruption from the get-go."

[12:30:07] So, is this the smoking gun that there's corruption or is there something more that the officials need to see? But where does this stand when it comes to -- is it over? Have we figured it out? Or will it keep going through.

EUGENE SCOTT, CNN POLITICS REPORTER: It really does depend on who we're talking about. So, these e-mails prove to people who already have problems with Hillary Clinton in terms of integrity and the relationship between the foundation, the state department that something happened. But for those who were onboard with her, it's not really clear, this doesn't show that anything was don that's illegal and her team has gone record saying, that her name was not clearly identified in these e-mails.

BANFIELD: Does that matter when it's her very close aides and deputies that it's not actually her doing the typing?

SCOTT: I don't think to critics because these aides are likely doing something with your support, your endorsement and on your behalf. But what impact it will have with people who are already voting for her it remains to be seen. But we have to remember she's still trying to reach independent voters and this could be a problem.

BANFIELD: So that was my next question, Josh, I'm going to wrap it into another one. And that is that sometimes just the appearance or dimension or the reechoing of charges or allegations are enough. I mean and that can do the damage. But at the same time, you have someone like Donald Trump who says, "I could shoot someone down in Fifth Avenue and my supporters will stay with me." Does Hillary have that same benefit?

JOSH ROGIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Right. Now, Hillary is very in lucky that Donald Trump continues to run the news cycle by saying even more ridiculous thing, if then the things are coming are about her.

But make no mistake. This is of not a good look for Hillary Clinton and her staff, right. Let's remember there's been congressional investigation into Huma Abedin's work. When she had four jobs, she was working with the Clinton Foundation, her private company and two jobs, one working for Hillary Clinton and one working for the State Department.

The FBI was investigating the links between the Clinton Foundation and the State Department and this very issue before they wrapped up their investigation. James Comey refused to deny that in testimony, right.

So, yes Trump is doing what Trump does and really taking the heat off of Hillary Clinton. But this is a big deal.

BANFIELD: And what did the FBI ultimately answer? What did they say about that ...

ROGIN: They declined to comment.

BANFIELD: And his doctor said and we still got work to do.

ROGIN: Well, they declined the comment. We don't know.

BANFIELD: So we did don't know.

ROGIN: We don't know. But you can be sure that leading Republicans including Senator Grassley who've been on this case for over a year now will going to make sure that this feeds, the further inquiries whether its in the FBI or whether its in Congress as to what exactly were the ties and was there any pay for play. We don't have a smoking gun yet. But it doesn't look good.

BANFIELD: OK, let's jump to the other side. Talk the Trumps issue of the hour. It seems to e hourly. But this one has gone on for day and a half now and that's the second amendment comment he made at the rally yesterday.

I think we all know that the Conservative Writer, Bill Kristol is no fan of Donald Trump, commenting a candidate against him that last nine or a second. But he's now taken to the Twitter and this is what he said about Donald Trump's comment.

"In the general pattern of Trump damaging everything and everyone he touches, he's now hurting the cause of defense of the 2nd Amendment." That may be his view. But Donald Trump says not in the least. I'm helping the 2nd Amendment cause. What is it, Eugene? Is it either or both?

SCOTT: Well, I don't know how he could argue that he's helping the cause when he continues to portray Hillary Clinton's position incorrectly. She is not on record where Hillary has said that she's not trying to take people's guns. She supports more background checks but he is helping perhaps him in terms of getting his base keeping them committed to him while we see all these Republican establishment leaders come out openly and support of Hillary Clinton.

I think he's trying to show them that he will continue to be who he said he was when he announced.

BANFIELD: I'm going to just second you but the actual quote that Hillary Clinton gave to Chris Wallace on Fox New, on August 31st because he after exactly that effectively are you, you know, trying to take away? And she said, "I'm not looking to repeal the 2nd Amendment. I'm not looking to take people's guns away." But just like every one of our other constitutional rights like 1st Amendment rights they are open and even subject to reasonable regulations. Nobody wants a felony in prison waving a semi automatic, so even most protected rights that they can be subject to some restrictions.

I have to leave it there. But will you both come back?

SCOTT: Of course.

BANFIELD: You're simply delightful. And I can see you clearly. Thank you both Eugene and Josh.

Coming up next, I'm going to take you down to Baltimore where the police department has been busted. In a very scathing 126-page justice department report, some officers engaged in such egregious behavior, it got them fired. But why all of the microphones and what is the big message? Wait.

[12:34:52] We're back in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: A scathing report just released today revealing racial bias in the Baltimore Police Department.

A justice department investigation looked at the department's policing methods for more than a year after the death of Freddie Gray back in 2015. And that was at the Baltimore mayor's request.

Now the results and they are not pretty, as we heard from the deputy assistant attorney general at a news conference just a short time ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VANITA GUPTA, PRINCIPAL DEPUTY ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL: We conclude that there is reasonable cause to believe that BPD engages in a pattern or practice of conduct that violates the constitution and federal anti-discrimination law.

BPD engages in a pattern or practice of making unconstitutional stops, searches and arrests, using enforcement strategies that produce severe and unjustified disparities in the rate of top searches of African- American, using excessive force in retaliating against people engaging in constitutionally protected expression.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[12:40:18] BANFIELD: Jean Casarez is standing by live. She was actually covering this news conference. She's in Baltimore.

Jean, when I listened to the Deputy Assistant Attorney General, the things she was saying were really strong and yet that sound bite that we just played for the audience didn't even get into details, the actual nitty-gritty, the things they found, the things they saw. What were they? JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, Ashleigh they didn't get in the nitty-gritty in this press conference.

So let me give you things that really stood out. First of all, in Baltimore when police officers are trained, it says in the report that they are trained using law that is invalid, wrong or unconstitutional. They talk about in the report strip searches of the people of Baltimore that have been done on public streets. They talk about sexual assault examinations that may have been compromised by not developing a preliminary investigation, not collecting the evidence and not assessing the evidence and also extreme force.

Now, I want you to listen to something that the Police Commissioner, Kevin Davis, said in his press conference just minutes ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COMMISSIONER KEVIN DAVIS, BALTIMORE POLICE DEPARTMENT: We know that our citizens are outraged at some of the details included in this report. And they should be. Citizens can't be expected to respect an agency if the trust of that agency was breached. There are several instances in this report in which that fragile trust has been breached.

And some of the more egregious acts described in the report, action has been taken and those police officers have been removed and no longer work for the Baltimore Police Department.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: Now, there are specific examples in this report. We want to show you one of them, "During a ride-along with Justice Department officials, a Baltimore Police Department sergeant instructed a patrol officer to stop a group of young African-American males on a street corner, question them, and order them to disperse. When the patrol officer protested saying that he had no valid reason to stop the group, the sergeant replied. Then make something up."

And there are so many facts and figures in this report. I want to show you one here of more than 300,000 recorded pedestrian stops from 2010 to 2015. Ten times or more, 410 people were stopped and 95 percent of them were African-American and one African-American male that was stopped in more than 30 times in the last four years was never cited, was never even arrested. And why did this all happen? Here is another quote from the report. "Driven by systemic deficiencies in Baltimore Police Department policies, training, supervision and accountability structures that fail to equip officers with the tools they need to police effectively and within the bounds."

Now, Ashleigh, on a positive note, they say that they have to and will restore the trust. That is the route here and it will be done by a court order between the Department of Justice and the city of Baltimore Police Department where they will be required to retrain and restructure and supervise and keep data records for years to come. They will be monitored. Slowly but surely they say this can turn around. BANFIELD: Oh, they got a lot of work ahead of them. Jean Casarez, thank you. She's read through all of those reports. And it's exhaustive in pages very numerous with details numerous.

And if there's anybody who knows what it's like to be under that kind of investigation by the U.S. Justice Department, it's my next guest Delrish Moss, is a the brand new chief of police in Ferguson, Missouri. He was sworn in, in May. And Chief Moss, thank you so much for being with me today.

It was over a year ago, its March 2015 that the DOJ came down with it scathing assessment of your department before you, of course, were the chief. But I would like for you to just walk me through what you now know from experience that the Baltimore Police Department is about to go through.

DELRISH MOSS, CHIEF, FERGUSON POLICE DEPARTMENT: Well, I think one of the things that the city of Ferguson learned was to work with the Department of Justice because every now and then in policing there is a new sea change with regard to how you move forward. And so Ferguson has moved with great haste to reinstitute its court reforms to actually change some of the ordinances that were in question to actually diversify the police department. And to do a number things which regards to training, and hiring and so fort to actually bring us into compliance with, the way things should be done.

BANFIELD: So how does it work is there someone from DOJ almost working over your shoulder and saying, "Not like that, like this." Like how is it actually worked as this thing implemented all the changes they recommended?

[12:45:10] MOSS: Well unlike many police departments, the city of Ferguson entered into a consent decree with the Department of Justice rather than it being fully forced down our throats.

I mean there was some talk back and forth with regard to them forcing us into it. But we agreed to a lot of the changes. And because of that it's more of a collaborative relationship. They work with us, we just hired a monitor to actually come in, an independent monitor to actually help us move forward with the process. And we're also restructuring the department so that we can work to put those reforms into place.

BANFIELD: So Chief Moss, one of the questions I had that as I was watching at Mayor Rawlings-Blake, is that, OK this is Baltimore. And I remember watching the news conference about Ferguson. And I know that worth -- I don't know some were between 17 and 21 different police departments currently under investigation by the Department of Justice. And I just wondered, what about all of the other departments out there? Can't just be these few. These are the ones that are being pinpointed and looked at. What about the rest of the country and just the idea of how we police now in the 21st Century and how we may change? Do you see these cases as being a cautionary tale for other departments who maybe aren't under the microscope right now?

MOSS: Well, I think other departments would be wise to look at some of the things that come up in these reports. I mean, because when you look at the problems in one police department, you can actually adjust some of the things that you do in your police department. There are 18,000 police departments in the United States. And so you can't tell me that only 20 or 21 are having a problem.

I think it's wise to read these consent decrees to the Justice Department reports. And to actually make changes so that you are in compliance. I mean what we want to do is make it better for people. And so it's ...

BANFIELD: Wow.

MOSS: ... good that we accepting ourselves in for.

BANFIELD: 18,000. And I just quickly, I want to ask you if you can update me as to an incident last night. Yesterday was the second anniversary of the death of Michael Brown. And there were people out peacefully protesting. In West Florissant, you know, that we saw erupt, you know, into so much activity. And someone was hit by a car and shot were fired at the car. Can you update me as to what happened as we look at some of the video that was recorded last night?

MOSS: Yeah, well, basically what happen was we had a young man who decided to step into the street moments after he had been warned by police before he went to another location and he was standing in the street, a one woman was actually driving to work. She saw the crowd standing along the side of the street, but she didn't see him. And she hit him. While she tried to stop but several people fired shots at her car. Actually striking the car and not harming her until she moved to a safer location where she called the police.

BANFIELD: Well I'm ...

MOSS: And he was taken to the hospital by some friends of his who picked him up on the scene.

BANFIELD: Well, I'm glad that there wasn't anyone seriously injured at this point and my thoughts go out to you as you get past that anniversary.

Chief Moss, great to have you. Thank you so much. I hope you'll come back.

MOSS: Thank you very much.

BANFIELD: Up next, a tragedy that has shaken a community and the police department to its core. A 73-year-old woman, volunteering to help the police in a practice drill shot and killed accidentally by an officer who somehow had a live round of ammunition in the gun. How did this happen?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:52:36] BANFIELD: It was supposed to be a fake police situation, a drill. You hear about it all the time. But something ultimately ended up turning into a very real life tragedy in Florida. A 73-year-old woman is dead today after she was accidentally shot and killed during a police academy training exercise, a display exercise.

She was participating in an active shooter scenario when an officer mistakenly shot her with a live round of ammunition. All of this happening in front of more than 30 other civilian participants.

CNN's Victor Blackwell is covering the story. He joins you live with an update. There's only one question and it's the simplest. How did this happen?

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. No one at this point knows how it happened. This is being called a tragic accident. But I've learned in the last 30 seconds that the chief of the Punta Gorda Police Department, Tom Lewis will be updating the reporters in about an hour. And of course the first question is, how did a live round get involved with this scenario?

Typically, we're told by the police department that blank guns are used for this citizen police academy. That's what Mary Knowlton, the 73-year-old woman, was participating in at last night when she was shot.

This is an opportunity for local people, about 35 of them last night, to tour the police station, to see the equipment they use and to participate in this scenario. A shoot or don't shoot scenario.

We're told that there are three participants. This was the first of the night. Two volunteers and one Punta Gorda police officer, in this role play though, Mary Knowlton was playing the role of a police officer.

Again, typically, they use blanks for this but in this case there was at least one live round fired. Overnight the police chief said that Knowlton was shot just once. It was a fatal shot. She was pronounced dead at a local hospital. Here's what else the chief had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TOM LEWIS, CHIEF, PUNTA GORDA, FLORIDA POLICE DEPARTMENT: Our entire police department and all of our city leaders are absolutely devastated for everyone involved in this unimaginable event.

I am asking that if you pray, you pray for Mary's husband and family. And for all of the officers and witnesses that were involved in this incident. Every one involved is in a state of overwhelming shock and grief.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[12:55:06] BLACKWELL: Well, the Florida Department of Law Enforcement is now investigating this death. And we know the officer involved has not yet been identified but is on administrative leave. But Ashleigh there is one discrepancy here. We know that, of course, there was at least this single live round that was used. But a local news photographer who was covering this police academy, citizens' police academy, said that the officer fired several times in the direction of Mary Knowlton. So the question then is, were the other shots blanks or were they also live rounds that simply missed? Hopefully the chief will be able to clear that up.

BANFIELD: It's just unfathomable. I cannot imagine what Ms. Knowlton's family is going through.

Victor Blackwell, thank you for that. Keep on the story. Let us know when you get an update. Appreciate it.

Coming up next, there is a quite a bit of reaction to Donald Trump's 2nd Amendment comment from an American hero whose wife was badly wounded by a deranged gunman.

You're going to hear from Astronaut, Mark Kelly, the husband of Former Congresswoman Gabby Giffords. The two of them have put out a strong statement about what Mr. Trump said. They want an apology. That's next.

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