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Trump Says He's Being Sarcastic on Calling Obama Founder of ISIS; GOP Letter to RNC: Cut Funds for Trump. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired August 12, 2016 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:00] CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: You have to be in the conversation every time, Shannon, because you're great at what you're doing now and you made the country so proud. Thanks for joining us here on NEW DAY. Appreciate it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you.

CUOMO: All right, there is a lot of news going on this morning from the world of politics and in the Olympics. So it's time for "NEWSROOM" with Erica Hill, who is filling in for Carol Costello. She takes it right now.

Good morning, my friend.

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: Hey, Chris, good morning. Nice to see you. Thanks very much.

NEWSROOM starts now.

Good morning, everyone. Nice to have you with us on this Friday. I'm Erica Hill, in today for Carol Costello.

Donald Trump versus Donald Trump. The Republican nominee bruised by sagging poll numbers. Now battling his own words again. He says his most recent over-the-top comments were actually nothing more than tongue-and-cheek. This tweet he sent a short time ago, saying, as you can see, "Ratings challenged CNN reports so seriously that I call President Obama and Clinton the founder of ISIS, an MVP. They don't get sarcasm?"

So is it just a humorless media that doesn't get his sarcasm or is this the latest example of Donald Trump trying to clarify his message? Well, judge for yourself. Here he is just yesterday shrugging off the best effort of a conservative radio host who was trying to nudge Trump into toning it down.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HUGH HEWITT, HOST, "THE HUGH HEWITT SHOW": Last night, you said the president was the founder of ISIS. I know what you meant. You meant that he created the vacuum, he lost the peace.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: No, I meant he's the founder of ISIS. I do. He's the most valuable player. I give him the most valuable player award. I give her, too, by the way. HEWITT: But he's not sympathetic to them. He hates them. He's

trying to kill them.

TRUMP: I don't care. He was the founder.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: There is a lot to cover. We want to begin with CNN's Athena Jones in Washington.

Athena, good morning.

ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Erica. I don't know where to begin. As you mentioned, this is Trump versus Trump. And this whole idea that this tweet this morning that he was just being sarcastic after spending the entire day yesterday using every opportunity that was in front of him to restate this claim that the president and Secretary Clinton are the founders or MVPs of ISIS, even going as far as to say, no, no, I really mean exactly what I said. Now he says that he was just being sarcastic.

This is not the first time we've seen Trump try to step back or walk back from outrageous comments by claiming sarcasm. I think the question here is what he -- you know, what is the definition of sarcasm. Just a couple of weeks ago, he said he was just being sarcastic after he had basically called on Russia to hack Clinton's e- mails to find those 30,000 or so missing e-mails. So this sarcasm approach seems to be maybe Trump's way of apologizing without apologizing.

The problem here is that the damage is already done. The concerns that were already being raised among a lot of Republicans and people broadly speaking, that those concerns continue because he spent 24 hours making these claims.

This is -- this is classic Trump. We've seen it over and over and over again. So the question is, can he be taken at his word? How often should he be, you know, interpreted a different way from what he said? It just creates more confusion.

And all of this comes, Erica, as there has been more and more talk among Republicans and even reporting that the RNC is considering shifting money away from the Trump -- the presidential campaign to these down-ballot races for the Senate and the House. Now the RNC is denying this but Trump was asked about this on Bill O'Reilly last night. Take a listen to what he had to say in response to this idea that maybe the funds could be moved around. Take a listen to that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: If it is true, that's OK, too. Because all I'll have to do is stop funding the Republican Party. I'm the one raising the money for them. In fact, right now I'm in Orlando, I'm going to a fundraiser for the Republican Party. So if they want to do that, they could save me a lot of time and a lot of energy --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JONES: So he is threatening and saying, look, if it were to be the case that the RNC wants to move money from the presidential race to these down-ballot races, look, here's what I'll do, here's how I'll respond. Now the RNC is not making that move at this point, but you can just see kind of the confusion that a lot of Trump's statements spark -- Erica.

HILL: There has definitely been confusion over the past few months. That's for sure.

Athena Jones, thank you.

Let's talk a little bit more about that confusion. Joining me now, CNN political analyst and editor-in-chief of the "Daily Beast," John Avlon, joined as well by senior -- CNN senior political analyst and senior editor at "The Atlantic" Ron Brownstein and CNN political analyst and Washington bureau chief for the "Daily Beast," Jackie Kucinich.

Nice to have all of you with us. So, you know, we saw the statement that we've seen over the last couple of days, of course. Donald Trump really doubling down, and then we saw the tweet this morning. And then there was another tweet, this one which reads, "I love watching these poor pathetic people, pundits, on television working so hard and so seriously to try to figure me out. They can't."

[09:05:04] Well, I will say, there's some authenticity. My first thought when I saw that was you're right, we can't figure out Donald Trump.

But, John Avlon, at this point how important is it for voters to be able to figure out who Donald Trump is and what he really means when he says it?

JOHN AVLON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, that's the key question in any election. Who is this man or woman, how much do you know about them, and can you trust them? With Donald Trump, it's through a totally different prism because he's basically campaigning as an insult comic. I mean, that's his excuse every time he says something unforgivably outrageous is can't you take a joke? So what you got is sort of Don Rickles ripping on national TV about geopolitics. And of course it's dangerous as well as a little unhinged, as the RNC has discovered.

HILL: Ron, it also make me I think, and probably all of you in a way -- in some way feel like a bit of a broken record. We keep having the same conversation of, you know, how long does this last, can he be reigned in, should he be reined it? Does the party need to go over to where he is at?

We're three months out now, Ron, from the election. What does happen at this point?

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I think -- you know, I think we've seen a very clear pattern. And you have to ask yourself a question. Is this just a lack of impulse control or is there actually a strategy here? I mean, if you look at it by conventional political terms, Donald Trump is consistently raising more doubts among the voters who are in between where he is and where he needs to be. The biggest problem he has is that 60 percent of the electorate consistently in polls say they don't consider him qualified to be president. Only 14 percent in ABC-"Wall Street Journal" poll of college whites said he had the temperament to be president.

All of these episodes reinforced those doubts. And so why does it keep happening? I think maybe we have to start thinking again that Donald Trump has a different theory. That by constantly saying the darkest, kind of expressing the darkest fears of the most alienated elements of the conservative coalition that he is hoping he will provoke a massive turnout of nontraditional voters, that he is not really trying to win over the suburban swing voters who (INAUDIBLE) his biggest problem, but in fact, by kind of dipping his toes in this waters, consistently with this pattern of saying something outrageous then backing off like from David Duke to the Russian hacking, to this, he is trying to reach a more alienated segment of the electorate. And maybe that is what is going on.

HILL: And I want to dive more into that point. I do want to play, though, really quickly if we could. We have a string of some of these, you know, sort of flip-flopping, him going back and trying to clarify. Let's take a listen to that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: She gets out and she starts asking me all sorts of ridiculous questions, and you know, you could see there was blood coming out of her eyes, blood coming out of her wherever. Now the poor guy, you got to see this guy, oh, I don't know what I said. Oh, I don't remember.

CHRIS MATTHEWS, MSNBC ANCHOR: Do you believe in punishment for abortion, yes or no, as a principle?

TRUMP: The answer is that there has to be some form of punishment.

MATTHEWS: For the woman?

TRUMP: Yes, there has to be some form.

MATTHEWS: Ten cents, 10 years, what?

TRUMP: I don't know. That I don't know.

Russia, if you're listening, I hope you're able to find the 30,000 e- mails that are missing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: So in terms of all those statements that we just heard, and to what Ron brought up as well, Jackie, is this, do you think, part of a strategy what we're seeing from Donald Trump? Just doubling down, doing whatever he can, saying perhaps whatever he wants, off-the-cuff, to simply draw attention and to achieve his goal of always being top of the conversation, because if that's the goal, it is certainly working?

JACKIE KUCINICH, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, I think it is giving him a lot of credit that this is actually a strategy at this point. Because, you know, if this ISIS slogan that he was doing the last couple of days would have worked, I think we'd still would have been hearing him saying it. But he started getting a reaction. We've seen this kind of as a rinse repeat. He says something, the GOP reacts negatively. He says, I was kidding, the media misinterpreted me, you know, one of -- like there's A, B, C or D that he could pick from those that he routinely uses.

And then we move on to the next outrageous thing that he says. So I don't know that -- I mean, yes, maybe he is. He is still speaking to his -- the voters that voted for him in the primary. That is for sure . And there really doesn't seem any sort of effort to expand his tent of voter at this point.

HILL: And in one respect that is fascinating because of course where we are at in this election. We look at the latest poll numbers and we know that these are the two candidates with the most -- the highest unfavorable, rather, in decades. And you would think that he would want to go after those who are maybe undecided or feel that they can't find someone or the independents.

An interesting piece in the "New York Times" today from the editorial board, "An Even Stranger Donald Trump," it was titled. And this is one of the things that stood out to me. They write, "Donald Trump's rallies once drew their share of benign conservatives, offbeat libertarians, and plain curiosity speakers. But as time and Mr. Trump's act have worn on, many of them have no doubt gone the way of his poll numbers. Mr. Trump's crowds remain big and loud, but they're angrier and more malevolent and so is Mr. Trump."

[09:10:05] And he's doubling down on this rhetoric. He's missing these opportunities, John, to go after Hillary Clinton especially this week. I mean, there's been a silver platter of items that Donald Trump could hammer Hillary Clinton on.

AVLON: Exactly.

HILL: Go ahead, John.

AVLON: That's exactly right, Erica. Look, Hillary Clinton has had a terrible week. You know, more e-mails coming out showing connections between the Clinton Global Initiative, the foundation, and the State Department and a private business entity that's affiliated. All that is tailor-made for Republicans to keep hammering home and a lot of the Clinton's historic negatives. But instead the Republican candidate is busy playing to the outer reaches of his own base. Not building a bridge to voters in the center and making the case that they should switch their allegiance to Republicans this time around.

But the people who used to show up for the circus now look more and more, you know, sort of extreme and he is not doing the things a rationale candidate would do to build his base and win over swing voters in the swing states. And the poll numbers all show that. It is a profound slippage in a key month of August. It is later than we think, folks.

HILL: So what then gives the impetus for a turnaround if there is one, if he does listen to someone who says we need to have a turnaround, you need to focus on issues as opposed to emotions? Jackie, where does that come from?

KUCINICH: It is hard to say. Because he currently isn't -- doesn't seem like he is listening to much of anyone. Every time he goes on a teleprompter, it sounds really, really stilted, which is, you know, why he doesn't do it all that often. And not to mention his schedule. He's going to be in Connecticut. Connecticut. That's not a state that you normally ever hear about in a general election. Now he is in Pennsylvania today. But this sort of -- it is hard to say, because he is so -- such an unpredictable entity in this race.

HILL: Ron, do you see more of a quiet shift happening? Will we -- will we get the sense there is more of this quiet shift happening behind the scenes to really focus on the down-ballot races because the presidency may not be worth the effort?

BROWNSTEIN: You know, to some extent, that has already happened to a degree that people don't realize because basically Republican Senate candidates have already made the decision that they are going to turn out voters who they identify as anti-Trump, but pro them. Pro Ayotte, pro Toomey, pro Johnson, pro Kirk. They are perfectly willing to turn out voters at this point they know are going to vote against Donald Trump.

There is a lot of structure in the polling post-conventions. Donald Trump has recovered, he dipped a little after the Democratic convention among his base, with blue collar whites, but he's back to a very strong position among -- excuse me -- in both the state and national polls, but he is facing historic deficits among minority voters, sometimes polling only 1 percent or 2 percent among African- Americans and he is significantly underperforming among these college educated white voters, who have shown the most concern in the white electorate about his temperament, his qualifications and these kinds of statements.

And the fact that he is choosing to continually provoke those voters means either that, you know, they're kind of operating without a compass or in fact they are operating with a very different theory than pretty much anyone else in the Republican Party.

HILL: Ron Brownstein, John Avlon, Jackie Kucinich, appreciate you all being with us this morning. Thank you.

BROWNSTEIN: Thank you.

KUCINICH: Thank you.

AVLON: Thanks, Erica.

HILL: Still to come, this is definitely not sarcasm. Dozens of Republicans urging the RNC to stop spending money to help Donald Trump. We just touched on that. But we're going to talk with one of those folks next.

Plus, more e-mails and more questions when it comes to the State Department and the Clinton Foundation. We're digging into that as well.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:17:37] ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: Dump Trump and concentrate on Congress. That is a message of some 75 Republicans to the RNC, who in an open letter, are urging the RNC to pull financial support from Trump and focus instead on the House and Senate. If not, the group warns, the Republican Party could drown with, quote, "a Trump emblazoned anchor around its neck."

Joining me now, Mindy Finn. She's a former chief digital strategist for the Republican National Committee, and signed on to that letter.

Mindy, good to have you with us.

So, sources tell CNN that while RNC Chair Reince Priebus is frustrated about Trump's campaign direction, he is in this for the long haul, there's no cutting and running.

So, why do you believe this letter is going to change his mind that this will make a difference?

MINDY FINN, FORMER RNC CHIEF DIGITAL STRATEGIST: Well, I think it is important to show the people who have invested in this party for a very long time have been part of growing the party, and leading to majorities in the House and Senate, a majority of governorships, a majority of state legislators across the country, that they're extremely concerned. That here is a man that Donald Trump, I'm not even sure some days if he even wants to win. And there is the risk of the house and Senate being collateral damage.

Just imagine if the Republicans do lose Congress, in addition to the presidency, and the party has been throwing their money to Donald Trump, when they could have saved some members of the House and Senate.

HILL: You tweeted no one should be surprised by Trump's behavior earlier this week, he acted this way during the primaries. And to your point, we've seen this for a long time. There has been concern about down ballot races long before Donald Trump was even the nominee.

So, why do you think that now people are speaking out? Why has it taken so long to get this action underway?

FINN: Well, you know, I think coming before the conventions, the race seemed particularly close. There was some questions around maybe Donald Trump could win. I'm quite concerned about him as a president, but you thought, OK, at least if Republicans can maintain the House and Senate, there is an opportunity to push forth policies and agenda, that they think is good for the country. You know, Paul Ryan's better way agenda. What we see now is somebody, if you look at the electoral map, who was

really struggling, who was way behind. He is not winning. He is losing in states like Ohio, really behind in states like New Hampshire. And while senators like Rob Portman and Kelly Ayotte seem to be able to transcend that, bringing people along and doing better than him, if he continues to do poorly, worst than he is doing now, they could go down with the ship.

[09:20:06] HILL: Is it, though, I have to go back to the point, is it too little too late?

FINN: Well, I think that's the point of the letter is, which is the idea that Donald Trump can be controlled and managed. I mean, forget message discipline. He can't be controlled.

So, rather than investing money in him, you don't throw good money at bad things. He is a deal maker, he's an investor, he should know that. Put money where there is a chance to be successful. Put it behind the House and Senate candidates, fully devoted to them.

Donald Trump is not living up to his side of the deal here, which is that he should be an anchor for the party that is bringing them along, you know, bringing them along to victory and to success. He is not doing that. So, it's time for the RNC to devote those resources down ballot.

HILL: Time for the RNC in your opinion, but from the Trump perspective and we've heard this before, I would imagine it's more you need to get on board with me. Because Donald Trump likes to talk a lot, and with good reason, about the number of people he has brought into the process.

And this is a changing party. In fact, we're seeing that on both sides of the aisle as you well know. So, he has inspired millions to get out. Whether he wins or loses, that definitely impacts the Republican Party moving forward. So what is the future here for the RNC for party establishment Republicans, because this has shaken up the political process in a way that we haven't seen in sometime.

And it would be tough to believe that it is going to be going back to the ways of old.

FINN: I don't think it will necessarily go back to the way of old. That's why at this point, you actually have to question if Donald Trump even wants to win. He is going out inspiring a certain type of voter, who may be turning out for the first time, who may make up a movement, who will follow him past this election, even if he loses, and it looks quite likely he'll lose.

So, at this point, I don't think he cares about the Republican Party. I don't know that he ever has. It is about himself, his brand, his movement, and, you know, his ambitions beyond this.

So that's, I mean, I think to that point, sure, he has brought out new voters, but is that the party that is going to take us into the future -- the party that is a winning party for decades to come. I don't think so.

HILL: You don't think so. Do you think a lot of people who is come out and you can't put all supporters for every candidate in one box, of course, but a lot of the people we have seen come out en masse for Donald Trump, are those people you want included in the Republican Party? Do you want them to be part of this new party?

FINN: Well, I think you have to look at how the country is changing. I mean, in 2012 election, majority of voters were women. You have an increasing number of Hispanics in this country. And among those voters, Donald Trump type candidate is doing incredibly poorly.

For the first time in a long time, we have a Republican candidate who is losing white college educated women. That's not even diverse. That's white college educated women like myself.

So, I mean, not even a question do you wants them in the party. It's not a winning coalition. It is not a coalition that can win a general presidential election.

HILL: Mindy Finn, appreciate your time and we look forward to hearing about the reaction, official reaction to the letter. Thanks again.

FINN: Sure.

HILL: Still to come, under pressure, Clinton releasing her tax returns. Will that move get Trump to release his?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:27:25] HILL: Checking top stories:

Jerry Sandusky will testify at his appeals hearing. It will be the first time the former Penn state football coach has taken the stand. The 72-year-old said bad lawyering led to his conviction, and asking the court for a new trial.

Florida's governor sits down with community leaders outside Miami today to discuss the growing number of homegrown Zika cases across his state. Governor Rick Scott has been calling for Congress to return from summer recess to pass the Zika spending bill.

Yesterday, the Obama administration said it could not wait any longer, announcing plans to divert $81 million in federal funding to help pay for the development of a Zika vaccine.

No need to hit the movie theater to catch a glimpse of the biggest blockbuster, the annual Perseid meteor shower, known for some of the shooting stars happening this week. It's actually expected to peak tonight and tomorrow. NASA says it will be more spectacular than usual this month. Why? Well, apparently, there's an increased rate of meteors.

(MUSIC)

HILL: Good morning. I'm Erica Hill, in today for Carol Costello. Thanks for being with us.

Hillary Clinton is putting the pressure on Donald Trump. As early as today, the Democrat candidate said she'll release her 2015 taxes, a move she hopes to get Donald Trump to release his turns. Now, he has, of course, said repeatedly that will not happen because he is being audited.

Chris Frates is following the story for us from Washington.

Chris, good morning.

Likely that's not going to change, is it?

CHRIS FRATES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's likely not going to change, Erica. You're exactly right.

As you point out, Hillary Clinton could release her 2015 tax returns as early as today. In fact, just this morning, her campaign put out a new web video, slamming Donald Trump for refusing to release his returns. Now, this video features prominent Republicans like Mitt Romney and Mitch McConnell pressuring Trump to release his turns, and raises questions about why the billionaire is refusing to put out his records. It even features a clip of Trump himself talking about tax returns.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: You know if you're running, at a minimum, probably you're going to have to show your returns.

But if you didn't see the tax returns, you're going to think there's almost like something wrong. What's wrong?

SEN. TED CRUZ (R), TEXAS: Donald can answer all of these questions.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FRATES: The voice you heard at the end of the clip, that was GOP Senator Ted Cruz, who ran primaries and attacked Trump for not releasing his taxes.

Now, Trump has said he is not releasing his taxes because he is being audited. But the IRS has said an audit doesn't prevent anybody from releasing the returns.