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Trump's Poll Numbers Dropping; Questions Raised Over Clinton Foundation; Trump Advocates Trying Americans in Military Tribunals; Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired August 12, 2016 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[15:00:03]

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

OFC. PETER CYBULSKI, NEW YORK POLICE DEPARTMENT: I am sitting in the passenger seat. He's sitting in the driver's seat. And next thing I know, something hits my right hand, and then it hits the dashboard.

So, I look over to see who just threw something at me, and I see a man giving me a really mean grin, and speeds off very quickly. So, I look back to see the device -- like what it was that was thrown at me. He goes, "Boss, this is a bomb."

It was making a clicking sound. It was flashing a bright light. I felt like we had 15 seconds before this thing detonated. In my mind, I accepted that we are going to die. I wanted to get as far as possible, because I didn't want anybody else to die with us.

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The officers drove away from the crowd, bomb in hand. With seconds passing, they prayed together, two men, different faiths.

SGT. HAMEED ARMANI, NEW YORK POLICE DEPARTMENT: And I looked up. God, I just don't want to feel pain. And, at the same time, Peter was praying.

CYBULSKI: I made the sign of the cross, started saying the our father.

GINGRAS: The bomb squad eventually determined the device was fake. And hours later, police captured the man suspected of throwing it in the van. The pair return to their homes as heroes, and Armani's promise to his daughter remained intact.

ARMANI: The minute I hugged her, she goes, "Dad, don't you dare do that again."

GINGRAS: Brynn Gingras, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: All right, top of the hour, 3:00 eastern. I'm Poppy Harlow in today for my friend Brooke Baldwin. We begin with Donald Trump taking the stage just moments ago in

Pennsylvania with a surprise man introducing him, the head of the RNC, Reince Priebus, his appearance pretty shocking considering reports the two have been failing, to say the least, to see eye to eye, on the direction of Donald Trump's campaign.

It was Trump's first appearance on a campaign stage since his latest firestorm. Trump now saying that he did not mean seriously that President Obama was the founder of ISIS after he said that exact same thing four times.

He blamed the media on Twitter for the backlash, tweeting: "Ratings- challenged CNN reports so seriously that I called President Obama and Clinton the founder of ISIS and MVP. They don't get sarcasm?"

But despite another controversy, his biggest problem may lie in these new polls, Trump slumping in a number of key swing states. New polling today shows that in North Carolina, Clinton has a staggering nine-point advantage over Trump. In the battleground state of Florida, Clinton launched ahead of Trump in this latest polling by five points.

Dana Bash, CNN chief political correspondent, is with me.

Let's talk, Dana, first about the significance of half-an-hour ago Reince Priebus walks on stage and gives a warm introduction to Donald Trump, embraces him and says, this man will win.

DANA BASH, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Right. Well, first of all, just the fact that we all went, wow, the RNC chair is at the Republican nominee's rally speaking is a wow kind of tells you what the state of play is right now.

We should note that I don't think -- the two of them are -- kind of have I think what I have called a tough love relationship at this point. You know, there has been tension, particularly, as we reported last week, after Donald Trump neglected at first, or decided at first, I should say, to not endorse Reince Priebus' very old dear friend from Wisconsin who happens to be the speaker of the House, Paul Ryan. And then they have a tough conversation.

But Reince Priebus is still very much connected to Donald Trump and visa versa. The two of them need each other at this point. So the fact of the fact is, we didn't know that Reince Priebus was going to come out and speak. I'm still trying to dig on exactly what happened backstage to make that happen.

But the fact that Priebus did come out was certainly, no question, a signal, no matter what he said, which obviously was very much staying on message, but just his presence there was a signal that they're trying to kind of keep the band together at this point.

HARLOW: Yes. Dana, your reporting had been, and appears very correctly so, that this sort of meeting in Orlando that was billed as a come to Jesus moment between the RNC and Trump camp may not have been so much that. BASH: Right.

There was a report that there was, as you said, sort of a come to Jesus meeting today in Florida. My understanding, according to my sources and our Jim Acosta and others, is that it is a routine meeting which they're supposed to have, and they need to try to get up to speed, which is a whole 'nother story, with field offices and staffers in important battleground states. And Florida is certainly one of them.

HARLOW: All right, Dana Bash, thanks so much, working your sources for us.

Lots to cover with our political panel this hour, including Hillary Clinton just releasing her tax returns.

Doug Heye is with us, a CNN political commentator and Republican strategist, Maria Cardona, CNN political commentator and a Democratic strategist and a supporter of Hillary Clinton. Pastor Mark Burns with us. He's a Donald Trump supporter. And David Catanese is senior political writer for "U.S. News & World Report."

[15:05:06]

Thank you all for being here.

Let me begin with you, Doug.

You know North Carolina inside and out.

DOUG HEYE, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes.

HARLOW: You ran three Senate campaigns there?

HEYE: I worked them. I didn't run them, but I can't take full credit for them.

(CROSSTALK)

HARLOW: North Carolina. Right? OK, yes, Obama took the state in 2008. Romney took it in 2012. This is a state that Donald Trump should not be nine points behind in. How concerning is that for him?

HEYE: It is very concerning. The reason it's concerning isn't just the poll numbers. It is what we're hearing on the ground or frankly what we are not hearing on the ground.

HARLOW: OK.

HEYE: Typically in North Carolina Republicans have done very well in the east, where -- more white conservative voters. He will certainly do still very well there, but there are less of those voters. The question is how is Donald Trump going to organize suburban areas outside of Raleigh, outside of Charlotte, my hometown of Winston- Salem? The reality is he doesn't have people on the ground to do so. And the only time you hear campaign staffers of Trump being talked about in Carolina, it is the fact that one recently pulled a gun on another. And in this crazy campaign, I wish I could say that was a joke. That's reality.

HARLOW: Let's go to Pastor Burns.

You are a Trump supporter. You're a believer that this man will be next president. You're seeing Hillary Clinton starting to run the table on Trump in some of these states that would never have been considered in play before this week, whether we are talking about Georgia or Arizona or now look at North Carolina, nine=point spread. How concerned are you?

REV. MARK BURNS, TRUMP SUPPORTER: I'm not concerned at all. I think right now obviously there is still a lot of race to go. The race is not over at all.

Again, I think we're in a political climate to where liberal media's really done a good job in painting a narrative that is making it unpopular for people to publicly support Donald Trump.

(CROSSTALK)

HARLOW: Pastor, I'm not painting any narrative. I'm pointing out objective poll numbers.

BURNS: And I'm not blaming you, per se, Poppy. I'm saying in general, not this show or you right now. But in general, the political climate again has labeled Donald Trump as a racist, as a bigot, as a loudmouth, as all of these characteristics that aren't befitting of a president.

(CROSSTALK)

HARLOW: Hold on, Pastor.

BURNS: I want to finish my statement. He's just -- he's really just speaking to the heart of what millions of Americans are saying.

And so, again, the American people, the Republican Party put Donald Trump where he is today.

HARLOW: But here's case in point. All right, so let me push back on you, because here's case in point is this latest kerfuffle over him saying that President Obama was founder of ISIS.

Those are his own words out of his mouth being played over the airwaves, four different occasions, if not more.

BURNS: Sure.

HARLOW: And he doubled down on them in his interview with Bill O'Reilly, in his interview with conservative host Hugh Hewitt. Those are his words. BURNS: Sure.

HARLOW: Those are not being spun by anyone in the media.

BURNS: I think, again, it just -- that is one of the aspects and characteristics of Donald Trump that has won the hearts of millions of Americans in this country.

The country knows that Donald Trump is not this polished, paper-cut cutter politician like Hillary Clinton is, but he is from the heart, speaks from his soul, and...

(CROSSTALK)

HARLOW: But which one was it? Which one was from the heart? Was it that Obama is the founder of ISIS or was it that we just didn't get that he was kidding and being sarcastic?

BURNS: Well, I think Newt Gingrich spoke it pretty clearly, and also I think Newt Gingrich stated that Donald Trump said three words when he could have said 10.

He made it pretty clear that Donald Trump -- what Donald Trump said can be accurately, inadvertently be true, that because of the failed policies of President Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton, ISIS is in existence. And so for him to say President Obama is the founder of ISIS, yes, we can add some more words in to there so it can be more politically sounding.

But the fact of the matter is, President Obama and Hillary Clinton and her failed foreign policies has created the issue and the problem we have today called ISIS.

(CROSSTALK)

HARLOW: Hugh Hewitt threw him that lifeline and Donald Trump stopped him and said, no, that's not what I meant. I meant he's the founder.

But let's move on and bring David in here, because, David, as the saying goes in politics, if you are explaining, you're losing, right?

DAVID CATANESE, "U.S. NEWS & WORLD REPORT": Sure.

And I understand Pastor Burns and other Trump supporters are going to say everything's fine here, it is the media's fault. But the concern should be is if the Trump campaign internally doesn't think this is a five-alarm fire right now, that's the problem. They don't need a pivot. They need a total change of how they're running the campaign.

I did some reporting this week just talking to Republican operatives who worked on presidential campaigns. They feel like they should take Trump out of these rally settings, put him in small groups with home builders associations, with the Kiwanis Club in battleground states and start dealing with local opinion leaders that come out and say, he was warm, he cares about us, he's serious about issues.

[15:10:02]

The rally thing, we know he can draw crowds. He can do that in September and October. I think he needs a total revamp of strategy and needs to serious about substance, needs to show he has the temperament and frankly needs to show he cares about regular people and that this is not just about him 24/7.

That means a total revamping of the strategy. I just don't know that we see any indication that's going to happen.

BURNS: I would like to echo on that.

(CROSSTALK)

HARLOW: Hold on one second, Pastor. I got to get Maria in here.

She's been waiting so patiently to get in here.

Maria, look, two points on this. The polling, this polling that we just got today on these swing states includes significant amount of undecided voters. The Clinton camp can't be complacent right now, right? And, yes, she's clearly taunting Donald Trump by releasing her tax returns and saying now, your turn.

At the same time, she still has not released transcripts of her speeches to all of the Wall Street banks.

MARIA CARDONA, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, first of all, let's talk about what has been the standard for the last 40 years of presidential candidates.

It has been releasing your tax returns. So she's not taunting him. We saw a poll that said 69 percent of Americans believe that he should be releasing his tax returns and want to see what is in them. This is something that they have grown used to, that they deserve to see, what kind of businesses they run, what are their charitable contributions, what tax rate do they pay, Poppy? Has Donald Trump paid any taxes, ever? And so I think those are very legitimate issues.

HARLOW: I think the answer would be, yes, he has paid taxes. The question is, what's the marginal rate, what has he contributed to charity?

CARDONA: I don't know. The taxes that we have seen back in the late '70s, he had no taxes. He had a tax rate of zero because of some complicated loophole, him being a real estate mogul and all.

HARLOW: I just want I note that -- I know you are pointing to "The New York Times" piece.

(CROSSTALK)

CARDONA: That's the question.

(CROSSTALK)

HARLOW: It's not reporting that CNN has that Donald Trump ever paid zero taxes. I'm just saying we don't have that reporting.

(CROSSTALK)

CARDONA: But we don't know, right?

(CROSSTALK)

HARLOW: You're right. It is not typical for a candidate over 40 years not to release taxes. It is also not typical for a candidate to have been paid millions and millions of dollars by Wall Street banks which she will be a big part of regulating. That's also not typical. So, we have got a lot of atypical things going on here.

(CROSSTALK)

CARDONA: But you know what, Poppy? The Trump campaign can point to nothing that talks about how she would change or has changed or has done anything that would be beneficial to Wall Street.

So that's a nonissue. To focus on his temperament, that's why his poll numbers are dropping, because he...

(CROSSTALK)

CARDONA: Because the American people understand that he doesn't have the temperament to be president.

HARLOW: Before you jump in, Pastor, I want to get your reaction to this specifically. This is something Donald Trump said last night. He talked about fund-raising for the RNC. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If it is true, that's OK, too, because all I will have it to do is stop funding the Republican Party. I'm the one raising the money for them. In fact, right now, I'm in Orlando. I'm going to a fund-raiser for the Republican Party. So if they want to do that, they can save me a lot of time and a lot of energy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Pastor, to you. He basically says, all right, well, if I'm not going to get the support I need, I don't need to raise money for the RNC. Down-ballot is very important as well in this election. Are you concerned at all?

BURNS: Well, I'm not. I'm not concerned at all.

I think what Donald Trump was simply stating, as he stated, right now, it is time -- it has been time. And, again, with chairman Priebus coming out on stage today, it's just showing that the RNC is getting behind Donald Trump to be president of the United States.

But while I wanted to say in reference to Maria, listen, we could talk about those taxes all day long. But the fact of the matter is Hillary Clinton and her e-mails have caused -- has continuously showed the fact that Americans cannot trust her to become president of the United States and once again, because of Hillary Clinton's e-mail, it proves to the American people, who is tired of the politicians, who is tired of big businesses ruling the working class to show why Hillary Clinton cannot be trusted and be president of the United States.

(CROSSTALK)

HARLOW: Pastor, the counter to that is, if you're talking about being transparent with the American people, in full transparency, nothing about an audit ever says you can't release your tax returns to the public.

CARDONA: Thank you.

(CROSSTALK)

HARLOW: And specifically things like the marginal rate, like the charitable contributions.

BURNS: Well, it's true and I agree.

(CROSSTALK)

HARLOW: OK. So you agree with me. So, on that, let me bring my last question.

I got to get Doug back in here.

(CROSSTALK)

BURNS: We need to have a come to Jesus moment.

HARLOW: All right, yes, we do.

(LAUGHTER)

HARLOW: Doug, I want to get you on this, because there's something else that is going on. Donald Trump has raised a lot of money.

He is not spending much of it at all on television ads, which is of some concern to party leaders. Additionally, he's using his time to go campaign in a traditionally very blue state, Connecticut. Does that make sense to you?

[15:15:00]

HEYE: As much as we talk about the Donald Trump outrage du jours or taxes or e-mails or whatever else, there's one constant. And that's with the money that Donald Trump has raised, there is still no competent campaign organization that he has built.

We talked about North Carolina.

(CROSSTALK)

HARLOW: Why go to Connecticut?

HEYE: Because there is no competent campaign organization making these decisions.

I was in the state of Iowa last week, obviously a big state. You talk to a big -- a big swing state. You talk to voters there, you talk to party leaders there, they don't hear from the Trump campaign, because there is no Trump campaign. There is no mechanism for whatever Trump has said this day or that day about the RNC, or Hillary Clinton, or anything else...

HARLOW: Frankly, there's the campaign that won him the primary.

HEYE: Sure, but this is a totally different game of trying to identify voters, target voters, draw those voters out. They don't have the mechanism for that. No one can tell you what the Donald Trump campaign mechanism is for an absentee ballot chase, to make sure that people get absentee ballots and return those absentee ballots.

They don't have that and they're not spending -- TV ads aside, that's what they're not spending money on.

HARLOW: David, to you. Jump in here. Your thoughts on that.

CATANESE: He's the campaign, he does whatever he wants. If he says he wants to go to Connecticut and, frankly, waste a day there, no one has the power to tell him no.

And that is what we are seeing throughout this campaign. Maybe his children -- we have seen instances throughout that his children have the most influence of anyone that can come in, sit him down, calm him down. But other than that, there is no one.

Paul Manafort I think is trying his darndest every day, day in, day out. But this campaign -- you talked about the primary. This was propelled by him doing what he wanted during the primary. He didn't run ads. He didn't raise money. He didn't kiss anyone's ring. That's how he won the primary.

So, in his mind, he thinks, this is how I'm going to do it again. They counted me out the first time, nobody said I could do it the first time. These pundits that are on CNN all day, nobody gave me a chance. This is the way I'm going to do it again. I'm going to prove everyone wrong. And I think he doubles down even more when he is behind.

CARDONA: He should continue to do everything he's doing.

(CROSSTALK)

HARLOW: And, frankly, does he have a point there? It did win him the primary.

Thank you, guys, very much. We appreciate it for the discussion.

(CROSSTALK) HARLOW: All right, coming up next, a top Hillary Clinton aide travels by train to New York. But the reason for her travel was a mystery until now. We have new details about the State Department's relationship with the Clinton Foundation ahead and the woman there at the center of all of it, Cheryl Mills.

Also, Donald Trump says he would be "fine" with trying Americans in military courts, even though it raises huge legal red flags and is unconstitutional -- next.

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[15:21:38]

HARLOW: Newly uncovered e-mails by the conservative watchdog group Judicial Watch are raising questions about whether a Clinton Foundation donor was provided special access within Hillary Clinton's State Department.

The Clinton camp denies anything inappropriate occurred and claims there was no conflict of interests nor any favors granted. But the larger issue raised here was the Clinton family's many competing and overlapping pools of interests, the foundation, State Department, the library, her campaign, et cetera, which, without clear lines of delineation, creates potential conflicts of interest.

That brings us to the latest news and the latest reporting about one of Secretary Clinton's top State Department aides who was simultaneously involved with the Clinton Foundation.

Our senior investigative correspondent, Drew Griffin, has been digging into this story.

He joins me now live -- Drew.

DREW GRIFFIN, CNN INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Poppy.

And the reason this is raising questions, or we're raising questions, quite frankly, is at the time of Hillary Clinton's confirmation as secretary of state, she sent a letter to an ethics official at the State Department saying basically she wouldn't participate in anything of substance that was directly related to her family's foundation, the Clinton Foundation.

Well, Hillary Clinton didn't. But apparently one of her closest aides did.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GRIFFIN (voice-over): On June 19, 2012, Cheryl Mills, then the chief of staff for Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, boarded an Amtrak Acela train in Washington's Union Station bound for New York.

For the last seven months, Senate investigators have been trying to find out what Mills was up to. And for seven months, the U.S. Department of State has refused to answer. Now, CNN has learned a potential reason why. Cheryl Mills, then a

U.S. government employee and Secretary of State Clinton's chief of staff, was in New York working on behalf of the Clinton Foundation.

A source close to the situation confirms to CNN, Mills was interviewing two potential candidates to lead the Clinton Foundation. Mills would interview top level executives at Wal-Mart and the drug company Pfizer. Both companies used donors to the Clinton Foundation and both had worked with the Clinton Global Initiative.

Was Mills' role in violation of government ethics rules? Did she have permission from the U.S. State Department? Did State even know the trip was taking place?

CNN has asked the U.S. State Department all of these questions. This was the response, "Federal employees are permitted to engage in outside personal activities, within the scope of the federal ethics rules", a state spokesperson tells CNN."All federal employees are subject to federal ethics laws and regulations, including rules pertaining to conflicts of interest."

That vague response raises more questions that are just not being answered, not to CNN, but worse, says on watchdog group, not to the Republican-led Senate Judiciary Committee, which has a right to know.

SCOTT AMEY, PROJECT ON GOVERNMENT OVERSIGHT: Congress has a rightful right to ask for any information that it wants to from the executive branch of government to keep track of them and the government should be turning that information over. And when you have a breakdown in that system, you have a breakdown in our democracy.

GRIFFIN: It's easy to understand why Cheryl Mills was trusted with helping find the next director of the Clinton Foundation. Her relationship with the Clintons goes back decades.

CHERYL MILLS, CLINTON AIDE: I'm honored to be here today on behalf of the president.

GRIFFIN: As Bill Clinton's deputy White House counsel, she defended the then-president during impeachment proceedings.

[15:25:07]

In 2008, when Hillary Clinton was running for president, Mills was her senior legal campaign adviser.

And when Hillary Clinton became secretary of state, Mills left the board of the Clinton Foundation and became Hillary Clinton's chief of staff.

The secrecy about the New York trip, the dual roles played by trusted assistants, the mixing of business between State, Clinton Foundation and its donors all play into a central theme of Donald Trump's campaign, that politicians like the Clintons use government to benefit themselves. DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: These are crooked people.

They have been crooked from the beginning. You look at that foundation. It's pure theft and pure crookedness.

GRIFFIN: Cheryl Mills' attorney says her client was simply doing volunteer work for a charitable foundation, she was not paid.

The Clinton Foundation also says Mills was not a paid employee.

Late today, Clinton campaign spokesman Brian Fallon sent this statement, "Cheryl volunteered her personal time to a charitable organization as she has to other charities. Cheryl paid for her travel to New York City personally and it was crystal clear to all involved that this had nothing to do with her official duties. The idea that this poses a conflict of interest is absurd."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GRIFFIN: But, Poppy, as we see more and more records, more and more information about the cross-blending of the State Department and the Clinton Foundation, it is bound to raise many more question about potential conflicts of interests going forward -- Poppy.

HARLOW: And you will be digging into all of it. Drew Griffin, important reporting. Thank you so much.

Coming up next: Donald Trump suggests that American citizens charged with terrorism should be sent and tried in a military court. Here is the thing, though. That's unconstitutional. I will speak live with a constitutional expert about the implications of that statement next.

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