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National Guard Activated After Overnight Protests; Seven Thousand People Rescued From Their Homes in Louisiana; Trump Blasts NYT For Story on Sputtering Campaign; Trump Unveils Tax Plan; National Guard Activated After Overnight Protests in Milwaukee; WSJ: Trump Must Change Act, or Drop Out. Aired 7-8p ET

Aired August 14, 2016 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[18:59:58] POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: That was Rosa Flores reporting. CNN did reach out to Trump's campaign for a comment specifically regarding the potential impact of ending money transfers and their effects on undocumented workers. His campaign did not address the money transfers but maintained their position on building a wall and said that is the right solution.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

Top of the hour, I'm Poppy Harlow in New York. And we begin tonight with breaking news in Wisconsin. There are extra police on the streets in Milwaukee tonight. The National Guard has been activated and we're told it will be deployed if necessary, this after a night of protests and violence over a fatal police shooting of a 23-year-old African-American man. Authorities say the man had a gun in his hand and refused to drop it when officers called on him to.

Still, much anger in Milwaukee in this community where it all happened. Overnight protesters torched six businesses, damaged seven police vehicles, four officers were injured and hospitalized. Police arrested 17 people. And during a news briefing a few hours ago Milwaukee's mayor tried to calm nerves and said there is clear evidence from video he says he has seen the police body camera video, that the suspect was armed.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR TOM BARRETT, MILWAUKEE: I have, however, seen the still photo extracted from that. And that still photo demonstrates, without question, that he had a gun in his hand. And I want our community to know that. That he had a gun in his hand.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: A short time ago the sheriff of Milwaukee, County Sheriff David Clark spoke about the suspect and his lengthy police record.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHERIFF DAVID CLARKE, MILWAUKEE COUNTY: He's got a bunch of drug arrests here, robbery, use of force, no prosecution. I don't know why. I'm not going to blast the prosecutor's office at this point, however, somebody ought to go, look and see why. There has to be a reason. That's called accountability. If the D.A. says, hey, we tried. The victims bailed on us, I get that. But if this is one of these second chance differed, those are the sorts of things that I think that are having a detrimental effect to this community.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Our Ana Cabrera is live for us tonight in Milwaukee. And Ana, as night falls there, the urge has been from the mayor, from the head of police for calm, no big protests and lighting businesses on fire like last night. Is that what you're seeing play out? Are people staying home?

ANA CABRERA, CABRERA: Well, still people are gathering. However, it has been peaceful so far, Poppy. But a lot of people are just coming to take a look at the destruction that was left behind after that night of violence and unrest in a community that says it's felt oppressed for years. As we walk and talk, we can see the burned-out cars and a burned-out gas station here. This is one of six buildings that was destroyed last night, including a bank, and auto parts store, a beauty supply store.

Now, police are on scene. They want to keep things peaceful here. But to give you a better idea of why yesterday's shooting ignited so much emotion, I want to introduce you to a gentleman who has lived here in this neighborhood since the 1970s.

This is Anthony Beles. Thanks for sharing with us here today. First Anthony, let me ask you, when you look at what happened here in your community last night, what's your reaction?

ANTHONY BELES, LONG-TIME RESIDENT OF MILWAUKEE: My initial reaction was to come down last night to see exactly how bad it was. You know, I was watching television. But I only went so far. Seemed like a lot of commotion. People didn't really know what to do or what they wanted to do.

CABRERA: How does something like this happen? Why do you think it happened?

BELES: Well, it's a lot of why it happened. I could tell you why it shouldn't have happened if you let me lead off that way. The Sherman Hill Park neighborhood has been one of the neighborhoods in Milwaukee that culturally us as black people, we work very hard to get these houses, to raise families, to possibly send someone to college. And for that to have no regard in what happened last night, I personally feel that it's not right to come and tear someone's legacy down. And I'm not going to call what happened a whim or a silly notion. I believe that we got to this point because it was common -- excuse me, we've been told that times like this would come.

CABRERA: And I want to touch on that. Because we've been also talking with others here who say that they want voices heard. They wanted to get attention of what's happening here. And this is how they made a statement. What is happening in this community? Are people oppressed or treated unfairly, Anthony? [19:05:05] BELES: Well, I would say that that feeling would be

consistent with the feeling all across America in cities not only just Milwaukee. And forgive me. That again, that you would have to know that something like this eventually would happen or come to pass. In my opinion, there are so many people that are wrong. So many --

CABRERA: So many people are wrong, do you feel like there's a disconnect?

BELES: There an absolute disconnect. But if I can speak to something that I think is more pressing is the gun laws that have been established by Republican governors not only in the state of Wisconsin but many other states. We want -- hopefully they can look at this one as many other situations and see what we're actually getting from right to carry. Some of us have figured out that when it comes to right to carry for our community, they get a two for one because if someone had stolen a gun from Waukesha, this guy had the gun because he's being preached to that you have a right to defend yourself.

Well, if he has a right to defend himself, how did he get the gun? It didn't work. But yet it ended up in our community. And we feel that that law is passed without any regard for us because you kind of get a two for one. The guns get it down in this neighborhood they count those on top specific party count on someone killing their neighbor and then they go to the prison system, which is a lot private owned.

CABRERA: And that's what you see happening, kind of a cyclical thing here.

Anthony, thank you so much for sharing your thoughts. It was really nice to talk with you. And I have to say, Poppy, we are seeing some interesting dynamics also play out here. In fact, just moments ago prior to our live shot, there was a group of some of the community members speaking with these police officers behind me having a very frank conversation with them. And we've heard from others that that is part of the root of the problem is that those communication lines just haven't been there in the past in the ways they should. So, perhaps that's a small sign of progress. We'll have to see. Back to you.

HARLOW: Yes. And it echoes from what we heard from the state senator we spoke with there earlier tonight.

Ana, thank you so much. And I do want to bring you some of that interview that I did earlier with State Senator Lena Taylor. I asked her what is her message to the people there in Milwaukee thinking of taking to the streets again tonight.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LENA TAYLOR, WISCONSIN STATE SENATOR (on the phone): Actually, I just left the community and a community organized group of people who have just, you know, grassroots organized and said we need to go out and help clean up our community. We need to go out and not only clean up the property damage, but we need to go out and help to clean up the damage that has come to exist for the people who have been damaged in the community. And for that healing to happen. And that has to happen when people know that someone loves, someone cares, someone hears their concern.

HARLOW: Yes.

TAYLOR: You know, I believe all our people need is some love and faith, to be very honest with you. And I can't mandate love and I can't mandate faith, but we can do the things that help them to know that by giving them access to opportunity. And that has to start now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: State Senator Lena Taylor there of Wisconsin.

Much more on that ahead. Also ahead this hour, we will take you live to Southern Louisiana for those deadly floodwaters continue to rise. Stay with us. You're live in the CNN Newsroom.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:11:05] HARLOW: It is the worst possible news today for the people of Southern Louisiana. They are nervously watching as those floodwaters continue to rise. And it is just expected to get worse there. More rain is on the way. That means very little relief in the coming days. Already three people have died from this flooding. Seven thousand have been rescued. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: About 3:00 this morning, 4:00, the neighbor started knocking and I started hearing all kind of noise. I walked outside and saw water coming up the street. I got a pond in the back of my house, the pond had actually went down. All the rain was up and the rain was coming and the pond went down, it dropped about four feet. So, I thought everything was fine. I was cooking and watching movies last night.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: On the phone with me, CNN senior photojournalist Mark Biello. He's been covering all of these. And Mark, you've covered a number of rescues after Hurricane Katrina, after Hurricane Rita, now this. Let's pull up some pictures. I believe we have images of families being loaded into these army trucks. These are some of the 7,000 people who have been rescued. Where are they being taken? How are they being taken care of?

MARK BIELLO, CNN SENIOR PHOTOJOURNALIST: Poppy, this area of Sherwood Forest in East Baton Rouge, it's about 12 miles from downtown Baton Rouge. The people have been pulled out of their homes that were stranded. It wasn't a real -- they were organized and put on these National Guard trucks and they're being taken to different shelters, at least for the evening. The waters still have not receded here. So the waters are still significantly high, and which means they're stranded and they can't get back in their homes. Hopefully at some point the waters will recede, but I think there is

-- they're still expecting more rain in the area. I think the big problem now is that the soil's so saturated there's nowhere for this water to go anymore.

HARLOW: Yes.

BIELLO: And so as the dusk comes here, what's happened now is the boats have pretty much pulled out. There's still a few more flat bottom boats and air boats here, but they're mostly taking the last remaining residents that are stranded in these neighborhoods on city charter buses. They're bringing in buses to bring the people out. So the National Guard has pretty much left the area. I think they're just patrolling for looting right now. But I think it is going to be some time before these residents get back in their homes.

HARLOW: And the pictures are just absolutely remarkable. I mean, we're watching elderly people being walked through streets that have been turned into rivers. We saw car after car just sinking into the river there. This convertible, woman and her dog were pulled out through the roof there. It's remarkable. Let's continue to play this. And also now I do want to bring in -- thank you, Mark.

And I do want to bring in on the phone with me, Colonel Ed Bush from the Louisiana National Guard. As we look at these images and we look at what volunteers, your National Guard members are doing to try to help people, how many National Guard men and women do you have there near Baton Rouge helping in all of this?

COLONEL ED BUSH, LOUISIANA NATIONAL GUARD (voice-over): Well, what you're looking at and what you're describing is a statewide effort. We've got roughly 1700 personal that are currently on duty with the National Guard. And they've stated that the last 48 hours, nearly 3,000 (INAUDIBLE) people, four hundred pets. But like the host is talking about, this is a team effort. He's got volunteers. You have the various first response agencies. You have these shelters that are all standing up because the fact is the water is moving. It's a real changing situation. I did want to clarify one thing. The National Guard does not have any type of looting patrol mission. We haven't gotten to that kind of work at all. We are completely and 100 percent in search and rescue mode.

HARLOW: Yes. Understood. Let me ask you this as we look at these families being taken out of their homes. They don't know when they'll get back. You know, what they will even have left for them once they do get back in those homes after the flooding recedes. What do they need right now most in the flood zone? I mean, do you have all the resources you need on the ground at this point?

BUSH: It's a huge joint effort. I mean, you're talking about a red cross, DHS, I mean, there are so many other state agencies that are involved here that all come into play. That doesn't even mentioning the various organizations that step up and provide this help. Do we have everything, I'm sure they don't. I'm sure they wish they had a lot more.

HARLOW: Yes.

BUSH: But in the meantime, the community is doing what the community does best.

HARLOW: Is there anything that people at home, you know, watching can do to help you guys?

BUSH: Well, I heard our governor this is morning. I think he hit the nail on the head. First and foremost, people need to be aware to their left and to their right and be a good neighbor. If you know someone down the street or you know a neighbor that needs something, then you need to help them. And secondly volunteers. Most definitely, these staffers that we were talking about, the food stations, that they can't have enough people to lend a helping hand. So volunteers coming out of the outstanding. Everything from people volunteers just to help. So, I'm sure that's the biggest thing, to take care of each other, and then let's get the volunteers and help those hardest hit.

[19:16:28] HARLOW: Yes. Absolutely. Thank you so much to you and all the members of the National Guard working around the clock, no question, to help these folks. Thank you so much, Colonel Ed Bush.

All right. Coming up next, switching to politics, Donald Trump's campaign manager today going one on one with our Jake Tapper.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAUL MANAFORT, TRUMP CAMPAIGN CHAIRMAN: We are convinced that, contrary to the stories of "The New York Times," which are not correct and contrary to the lead-in to this interview of Trump unplugged, that Trump is very plugged in. He's very connected. And you're seeing crowds attending these appearances that are end of October's numbers.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: All right. You'll see it only here. Tapper and Manafort, one on one, the entire interview next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:20:26] HARLOW: Welcome back. Donald Trump is stepping up his attacks on the media taking to Twitter today to claim that, if it weren't for, quote, "The disgusting and corrupt media," he would be beating his rival Hillary Clinton by 20 percent. This comes following the newest "New York Times" report which describes the Trump campaign as fractured. The article called "Inside The Failing Mission to Tame Trump's Tongue" quotes 20 mostly anonymous sources close to the campaign who say that Donald Trump is, quote, "exhausted, frustrated and still bewildered by the fine point of the political process and why his incendiary approaches seem to be sputtering."

Well, his campaign Manager Paul Manafort addressed Trump's war with the media and the controversial decision not to release his tax returns in an exclusive interview with our Jake Tapper this morning on "STATE OF THE UNION." (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: Joining me from New York is Trump campaign Chairman Paul Manafort. Mr. Manafort, thanks so much for joining us today.

MANAFORT: Thank you, Jake.

TAPPER: So, Republicans in Washington and throughout the country, as I don't need to tell you, are starting to get very worried and Mr. Trump doesn't have the discipline to stay on message and win the election. You see the polling showing him behind in battleground states. I know he did an economic speech Monday and he's going to do a speech on terrorism tomorrow, but in between, of course, he does seem to go off message. Last night he was talking about Monica Lewinsky's blue dress. What do you say to Republicans when they call you up and say, please get Mr. Trump to focus?

MANAFORT: Well, first of all, the piece you just did is an example of why, when he said last night that besides running against Hillary Clinton, he's running against the media. The point he was making is this week was a substantive week. He talked about an economic plan and Hillary Clinton presented her economic plan. They were two different plans. Our plan very clearly laid out how he was going to cut taxes, lower the tax rate for small businesses, how that would create more jobs, you talked about his trade policy, talked about his energy policy in making America energy independent.

And she laid out a program, which frankly is exactly what this administration is doing, raising taxes, raising spending, increasing the national debt. And there was a debate that could have been had there. Instead the media chose to take the Clinton campaign narrative and go on an attack on Donald Trump. Donald Trump in the course of this week was very substantive, you know, when he visited a number of battleground states. You didn't cover it. But frankly the local media is covering it. And so, from our standpoint we're pleased that we're getting the coverage that we need in the battleground states where this campaign is going to be fought.

Additionally, we think that contrary to your report and contrary to "The New York Times" and the story, the campaign is moving forward and is very strong. We've raised over $132 million in the last two months. We are organized in all 50 states, all 50 states. We've been in the battleground states every day this month including Pennsylvania, Ohio and Florida multiple times this month. And we're starting to get traction in those states. So, we are concerned, we are convinced that, contrary to the stories of the "New York Times," which are not correct and contrary to the lead-in to this interview of Trump unplugged, that Trump is very plugged in.

He's very connected, and you're seeing crowds attending these appearances that are end of October's numbers. They're not August numbers. In August, look at the crowds Hillary Clinton is getting. She's appearing before 30, 40, 100 people. He's appearing before 10, 15, 20,000 people. That shows you the campaign's working contrary to what the media is saying. TAPPER: So, one of the reasons that Mr. Trump's message about the

economy on Monday was sidetracked was, of course, when he raised the possibility of Second Amendment people taking matters into their own hands to stop Clinton from appointing pro-gun control judges. That's a controversy that you reject. Trump said afterwards that no one thought he was suggesting violence. But I want you to take a listen here to Mr. Trump.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Nobody in that room thought anything other than what you just said. There can be no other interpretation. Even reporters have told me, I mean, give me a break.

TAPPER: So, hut here's the thing. It wasn't just reporters. It was Republicans, it was people in Washington, D.C., who want Mr. Trump to win. And then if you look at the speech when he made those remarks, the man with the white beard who was sitting right behind Mr. Trump at that event, CNN tracked him down. Take a listen.

DARRELL VICKERS, TRUMP SUPPORTER: I was just absolutely taken aghast. Down here in the south, we don't curse in front of women. We don't drink liquor in front of the preacher, and we don't make jokes like that in public. We would have taken Mr. Trump to the shed and said, don't say things like that because people will misconstrue.

TAPPER: So that's Darrell Vickers. That's a man who's going to vote for Trump. And he interpreted it the same way as a lot of other people did. Now, does Mr. Trump need to listen to what Mr. Vickers had to say, which is be more careful with your words?

MANAFORT: Look, I'm not going to say he didn't interpret that or not. The point is most people did not interpret it that way. It was not at all meant to be a threat. But the point again is you could have covered what he was saying or you could try and take an aside and take the Clinton narrative and play it out. And you chose to do that instead. I mean, there's plenty of news to cover this week, but I haven't seen covered. You had information coming out about pay for play out of e-mails of Hillary Clinton's that weren't turned over, by the way, to the Justice Department for her investigation.

You know, that's a major news story. Yes. You had the NATO base in Turkey being under attacked by terrorists. You had a number of things that weren't appropriate to this campaign. We're part of what Mr. Trump has been talking about. You had economic numbers coming out this week that showed that productivity is down, housing ownership is down, unemployment, you know, is at over 102 million. These were all things that you could have covered this week. Instead you took in aside that the Clinton narrative told you was something Mr. Trump told me he didn't mean and you play it out for two days.

TAPPER: Okay. First of all, just as a factual matter, on Monday, my show covered Mr. Trump's speech. Okay. We did. We covered Mr. Trump's speech. And we did cover those Hillary Clinton e-mails. So when these things just because you say them, they're not true. I mean, we have been covering this substance. We have been covering the -- to Hillary Clinton. MANAFORT: Jake, we've been talking about these messages all week.

You covered it one day and you covered this aside about the Second Amendment for three days. Come on, there's not a comparison here. You had a chance to have a serious discussion about the two economic programs that were presented this past week, this very week by the two candidates. There was no discussion, there was no comparison.

TAPPER: And Mr. Trump bears no responsibility for his campaign being off message? His comments about the Second Amendment had nothing to do with why we weren't covering the economic message?

MANAFORT: His point about the Second Amendment was that people who cared about the Second Amendment should be concern about Hillary Clinton's candidacy and that those who are concerned probably would take up the cause. Now, there's something you can interpret it, which I'd certainly didn't, as a threat, but if you want to go back and look at threats, then you ought to go back to 2008 when Hillary Clinton was running against Obama and in May of that year when she was clearly the loser and ask why are you still in the race? She said, well, remember, Bobby Kennedy was assassinated in 1968. That's a much more direct reference laid at the feet of Hillary Clinton.

TAPPER: Well, we did cover -- I did cover that in 2008. I did cover it in 2008. And Hillary Clinton, you know what she did? She issued an apology. She said, I'm sorry my comments were meant that way -- were construed that way. That's not how I meant it. Let's move on. I want to ask you about Governor Mike Pence. Mr. Trump's running mate. Yesterday he told an interviewer where he would soon release his tax returns. Hillary Clinton and Tim Kaine have already released their tax returns. That puts them at odds with Mr. Trump. Back in 2012, Trump pushed then nominee Mitt Romney to release his taxes. Take a listen.

TRUMP: If you don't see the tax returns, you think there's almost like something wrong. What's wrong?

TAPPER: So, that's Mr. Trump saying, you need to see the tax returns, otherwise you think, what's wrong. You could put this whole tax return issue to rest. Right now, if you release Mr. Trump's 2008 returns. That's a year no longer under audit according to Mr. Trump's lawyers. You've obviously made the calculations, it's better to take the hit and to let the public see what's in those taxes. But Mr. Trump said in 2012, as he said, what's wrong in these tax returns? What do you not want the public to see?

MANAFORT: There's nothing that he doesn't want the public to see. Mr. Trump's position is been clear from the beginning. He's under audit. When the audit is complete, he'll release his returns. By the way, in Mrs. Clinton's returns, you saw a lot of income coming from donors to the Clinton Foundation and people who benefit from her State Department term as well. I haven't seen any stories on that yet.

TAPPER: Mr. Trump unveiled his economic plan this week. I want to ask you about that, if we can.

MANAFORT: Sure. TAPPER: He proposed across the board tax cuts with the biggest

monetary benefit going to the top one percent. Now, you compare that to the rhetoric that Mr. Trump offered back in September. Take a listen.

TRUMP: It reduces or eliminates most of the deductions and loopholes available to special interests and to the very rich. In other words, it's going to cost me a fortune.

TAPPER: Now listen to what Mr. Trump had to say to the "Today" show in March.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[19:30:00] SAVANNAH GUTHRIE, NBC HOST: Do you believe in raising taxes on the wealthy?

TRUMP: I do, I do, including myself. I do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Does seeing that the plan he unveiled Monday walks away from what he said in March and last September when he talked about how it was going to really hurt the very wealthy?

MANAFORT: I'm sorry. I couldn't hear the last sentence...

TAPPER: My question is his tax plan as unveiled Monday seems to walk away from what he said in September and March when he said that the very wealthy would pay much more.

MANAFORT: Not at all. He lays out three rates -- 12, 25 and 35 percent. In those rates, what he's talking about is increasing the -- and taking away a number of deductions that are used by the very wealthy -- I'm sorry, it's 33 percent -- taking away deductions that are -- are only used by the wealthy so that -- but more importantly, he removes from the tax rolls, you know, a significant percentage of the -- of the American people.

Taxes will go down. There'll be more real spending income for middle- income working families. And -- and as a result of this tax plan, you -- and all of the components of the tax plan, the trade elements, the -- the investment elements, you're going to have a situation where jobs are going to come back to America.

Manufacturing is going to benefit again. The coal industry is going to benefit again. The oil and gas industry is going to benefit again, which means more jobs -- good-paying jobs.

And as a result, the economy will grow again unlike what it has under Obama, where you've had the slowest growth since World War II. And the Clinton plan that was announce this week would simply be more of the same so that the kind of growth you've experienced for the last eight years, we'll -- you'll experience for four more years.

Whereas the Trump plan, similar to the Reagan plan and frankly, similar to the John F. Kennedy plan in 1961, would spur growth, create jobs and lower taxes for most of Americans.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: All right, our Jake Tapper with Paul Manafort there. Coming up next, Donald Trump is set for what his campaign is billing -- a major policy speech on ISIS and terrorism.

He will deliver it tomorrow in Ohio. Up until now, Trump has declined to offer many specifics on what he would do to wipe out the terror group. So will those specifics come tomorrow?

They may. And we will discuss with the head of the House Intelligence Committee along with retired Major General Spider Marks. They tell me what they want to hear from the candidate, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: Donald Trump set to give a major policy speech tomorrow in Ohio. And we could, for the first time, hear how he plans to defeat ISIS if he is elected president.

Up until now, he has offered few specifics on how he would wipe out the terror group other than saying he will and that he is the only one who can.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRIMP: We have to knock out ISIS. We have to knock the hell out of them. We have to get rid of it. And then we have to come back here and rebuild our country...

(APPLAUSE)

...which is falling apart.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Let's talk about all of this with CNN National Security Commentator, former head of the House Intelligence Committee, Mike Rogers is with me, and also with me now is former Major General Spider Marks.

Thank you guys for being here very much.

And let me begin with you, Congressman. If you were writing this speech for the Republican candidate tomorrow, what would you say?

MIKE ROGERS, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CONTRIBUTOR: Well, my -- my advice to that -- to the campaign would be to talk about the three phases of -- that's going to have to happen to really come up with a plan to defeat ISIS. You have a long-term plan that fosters support for people like el-Sisi (ph) in Egypt who want reformation in the Islamic faith, to try to turn that around, to try to push back on the jihadist portion in that inflaming that's happening around the world.

He made a very powerful speech back in November. We kind of missed the boat on that in the administration by not supporting him and his efforts.

That would be a part of it. Secondly, you want to have two phases of an operation to cause some disruptive activity to ISIS' ability to train, recruit, finance and propagandize. And so that would mean a coalition force that would have to get them out of their capital city, Raqqah.

But it would also mean that second phase. Who stays? And it can't be us. It shouldn't be us. It shouldn't be the United States.

Who stays there and how does that look? And then how do you go out and target terrorists on an individual basis from there? I would address those two things tomorrow, probably that third par, that bigger reformation part, I believe to later on.

But that's the way -- that's the advice I'd give to the campaign.

HARLOW: And -- and so the question then becomes, General, will we hear any specifics like that from Donald Trump because we just haven't up until now. I mean, he has said -- actually, he said back in -- in May of last year, he said that he has a plan. But he's not going to tell the public what the plan is.

And his supporters like that. I mean, I've had Trump supporters tell me why should he put his plan, his strategy out there. As a general who has fought and led our forces in Iraq, is that wise not to put specifics out there?

MAJ. GEN. JAMES SPIDER MARKS, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, if he wants to be elected president, he has to come forward and describe what he thinks the end state needs to look like. Congressman Rogers is spot on.

There has to be a description, a word picture of what the end state looks like regionally. Then he has to work back from that. And everything Congressman Rogers said makes perfect sense.

But I've not heard anything from this candidate that indicates that he is prepared to go and describe this very wholesome solution to this problem. It's more than the physical defeat of ISIS.

In my view, that's step one. They have to be crushed. It has to be painful and has...

HARLOW: Right.

MARKS: ...very clear. That cannot be done unless there is a coalition. That has to come forward. And from there, you can then march down the path and you can create a solution.

But bear in mind, this is intergenerational. This is not going to take place...

HARLOW: So...

MARKS: ...over the course of a very short amount of time or this gentleman's presidency.

HARLOW: So I mean, so Congressman, I mean, you're a Republican, the head of -- the head of -- you know, the man running for -- for the Republican ticket right now to be president has -- has spent the past week pointing the finger at President Obama and Hillary Clinton saying, you know, the founder and the co-founder of ISIS, and then a few days later saying, we all got it wrong. And he was actually being sarcastic.

And then his running mate, Mike Pence, goes on Fox this morning with Chris Wallace and says, no, no, no, he was being serious. That's what they've been talking about rather than any of this strategy.

How much does that concern you? Does that concern you?

ROGERS: Well, I think it's very clumsy. And I think if Americans are looking for someone who has not been in politics, who doesn't talk pretty, who doesn't talk off the teleprompter, who isn't poll- tested...

HARLOW: Right.

ROGERS: ...and I think that's why you're seeing the support for Donald Trump. Well, with that comes, I think, this clumsy speech, especially when it comes to national security.

So you know, again, I hope that they have sat -- you know, sat the candidate down, looking at some pretty serious proposals because I don't think we've gotten it right thus far. And I think there's things that we can do differently.

I'm hoping he lays that out. If he lays the case out without blame, I think that's an important step for Donald Trump in his national security posture.

HARLOW: And General, you have -- look, you've been very public talking about how you think President Obama's administration has failed in this effort to defeat ISIS. However, you've recently gotten behind Hillary Clinton.

You say that she is a much more bullish and strategic approach to -- to defeating ISIS. But what about those who point to her and say, she was part of the administration as secretary of state, part of the strategy in Iraq and Syria, part of a strategy that their critics say failed?

MARKS: Well, there is a -- there is a difference with the distinction here. And -- and the -- the secretary -- Secretary Clinton must come forward and describe that.

Although she has the embrace of the current administration, although she has the connection to the current administration, in this particular instance, she has to increasingly distance herself from what we see today, vis-a-vis what we saw when she was a secretary of state. Look, there are a...

(CROSSTALK)

HARLOW: Right, well, she did support more hawkish policies, right? She called for the no-fly zone her first year (ph).

MARKS: Absolutely.

HARLOW: The president didn't take that advice.

MARKS: Poppy, I agree. She needs to be able to be very forceful and say, look, I'm not completely connected to this president in terms of the policies. Was I a loyal soldier as the secretary of state?

Of course, she was. And she did her best to try to ensure that what she thought was right could be brought forward. But at the end of the day, when you open the door and you leave a cabinet meeting, you are onboard or you're not a part of the team.

HARLOW: So -- so Congressman (ph)...

MARKS: She needs to come forward and be very, very, very strong about her positions and her bullish positions internationally.

HARLOW: You know, it's a delicate dance to dance, right, a fine line to walk, hugging the Obama administration, and then separating herself on foreign policy.

But Congressman, to you, Vice President Joe Biden set to be in Pennsylvania tomorrow. He's -- we've gotten some of what he will say.

And he will say essentially, and I'm paraphrasing here, that Donald Trump is the least prepared candidate ever to run for the presidency on -- on national security. What's your response to that?

ROGERS: Well, you know, again, there's two things -- two ways to look at it. Obviously, he's had no experience in national security. But General knows this as well as I do.

You use your national security infrastructure to come around you and make these recommendations. What would concern me is that Hillary Clinton has a track record here that isn't very good.

So she didn't listen to the intelligence and to the military commanders on her Russia position. They didn't listen in Egypt. They didn't listen in Syria.

They didn't listen on Isis in Western and Eastern Iraq -- excuse me, Western Iraq, Eastern Syria. And there is a whole host of problems where they just have clearly really dismissed military and intelligence, right (ph), who do have lots of experience.

So I think this is an opportunity for the Trump campaign to come out and lay out some clear paths here this week. And I hope they can do that and stick to it.

I will -- and again, I'm concerned a little bit that because she has experience, everyone assumes it's the right experience. When I look back at her track record, it really wasn't very good.

And I know this big fuffle (ph) on the language of the president. But that early withdraw from Iraq caused serious problems.

And it did cause this group that we now know...

HARLOW: Yes.

ROGERS: ...as ISIS to go to Eastern Syria and then develop what we know today.

HARLOW: All right, to -- to be fair, though, and you well know this, but for our viewers, to be fair, I mean, that status of forces agreement came between Maliki and President Bush, before President Obama.

ROGERS: Right, but it was not the unilateral withdrawal. There was -- the status of forces agreement was all about trying to keep a contingency force there for training -- for continual training of Iraqi forces.

(CROSSTALK)

HARLOW: But only until 2011.

ROGERS: All of that, well, Poppy, that's not true. All of it fell apart. And so what the president said is, well, the -- the status of forces agreement isn't what I want.

So I'm pulling out. I -- I...

HARLOW: Right.

ROGERS: ...was there at the time. I thought that was a terrible decision. By the way, so did the military, so did the intelligence services say, boy...

MARKS: Right.

ROGERS: ...this is going to cause huge problems.

HARLOW: I need -- I got to get a break in here. But thank you very much Major General Spider Marks. Thank you, Congressman Mike Rogers.

Stay with me. On the other side of the break, we're going to talk about a new episode of your series "Declassified" tonight on CNN. That's next. I

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: All right, former Congressman and CNN National Security Commentator Mike Rogers is back with me, formerly head -- head of the House Intelligence Committee. You were also the host of CNN's original series "Declassified: Untold Stories of American Spies."

Tonight's episode reveals how undercover U.S. agents nabbed an illegal arms dealer. Here is a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Another level where you see he's working, he's performing for the primary audience. That's the suspect.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Whatever you want to drink, we will have (inaudible).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was consistent with my role to be as charming as possible. Every case might be very different. I have, on occasion, done the exact opposite, tried to raise somebody's anxiety level when it served the purpose.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Inaudible)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The work of an undercover is similar to that of a high-priced call girl. I am what you want me to be.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: All right, you got me there. Take -- take me into this episode.

ROGERS: Yes, this is great. If you like international intrigue, if you like just good-old fashioned spy business, this is it. So think of this, an Iranian arms dealer is trying to buy U.S. high-grade military equipment to sell -- or to take -- to buy it, to take it back to Iran to use it against U.S. troops.

We had to have to a foreign person who was pretty skilled in all the black arts of arms dealing come in, teach our agents, set up foreign companies, develop this thing, happened over a whole host of countries and nations, trying to snag this Iranian arms dealer in to buy from the right people. It was really quite an exciting episode.

I think people will be riveted by it.

HARLOW: Yes, no question. All right, it is tonight. Former Congressman Mike Rogers, nice to be with you. Thanks for coming on.

ROGERS: Thanks, Poppy.

HARLOW: All right, you can see that entire episode -- riveting episode of "Declassified." It is right on CNN Tonight, 10:00 p.m. Eastern and Pacific.

Straight ahead, we do return to our breaking news tonight in Milwaukee. The father of the man killed by police there is speaking out.

What he is saying to members of his community after all of the chaos that broke out there last night, straight ahead, you're live in the CNN Newsroom.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) HARLOW: All right, we are closely watching Milwaukee, Wisconsin,

tonight, after violence overnight left six buildings torched, seven police vehicles damaged and 17 people under arrest, extra police on duty tonight.

The National Guard has been activated. They're on standby, this after a night of protests over the fatal police shooting of a 23-year-old African-American who police say was armed and refused to put down his gun.

That man's father just spoke a short time ago, urging the community there to put down their guns and to wake up.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SMITH: There's (ph) -- they're going -- they're going to kill (inaudible). They're involved in these (inaudible). OK (inaudible) not to do it (ph) because I knew they're going to kill each other (ph).

And anyway (ph), they're going (ph) to find a reason to kill him (ph). Stop black (ph) (inaudible). Say (ph) (inaudible) shoot a man.

This -- this (inaudible) -- your father (ph) (inaudible), we've got to wake up. (Inaudible) to wake them up (ph). (Inaudible) set the drugs down, man (ph).

It's just this is time to get together, man (ph), show them that we're -- we're smart, too. (Inaudible) making these moves is not right. (Inaudible) please wake up, man (ph).

HARLOW: All right, quick break. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: All right, breaking news into CNN, before we go tonight, "The Wall Street Journal" opinion piece that is sure to make news tomorrow just published in "The Wall Street Journal" online.

It is -- it is one of the most important newspapers to the conservative establishment. And this opinion piece is urging Donald Trump to change his approach to his campaign or to drop out and let Vice Presidential candidate Mike Pence take the lead.

Let me read to you a part of this opinion piece just published, quote, "If they can't get Mr. Trump to change his act by Labor Day, the GOP will have no choice but to write off the nominee as hopeless and focus on salvaging the Senate and House and other down-ballot races. As for Mr. Trump, he needs to stop blaming everyone else and decide if he wants to behave like someone who wants to be president or turn the nomination over to Mike Pence."

You can bet this will be all the talk come Monday morning. All right, a lot ahead here on CNN tonight. Don't miss a brand-new episode of "The Hunt" that starts at 9:00 p.m. Eastern and Pacific.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PUSEAUX: Poncho (ph) was one of the most violent men (ph) I came across in the 11 years I worked human trafficking. He did a lot of brutal things bordering into torture to make the girls do what he wanted.

(SPEAKING SPANISH)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One victim said that he was just beating her. She fell on the ground. She got hit with the butt (ph) of the gun on her head. She passed out.

And when she woke up, he was still beating her. She said he didn't even care if I was dead or not. He just kept at it.

These girls are terrified of what can happen not only to them but, more important, what can happen to their family members.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: That's at 9:00. And then at 10:00, an all-new "DECLASSIFIED: UNTOLD STORIES OF AMERICAN SPIES." I'm Poppy Harlow in New York. Thank you so much for being with me tonight.

Have a great evening. "THE HUNT" with John Walsh starts now.