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Interview With Trump Campaign Manager Paul Manafort; Trump's Sarcasm Strategy; Interview With Former U.S. Commerce Secretary Carlos Gutierrez; Donald Trump Struggling In Battleground States; Hillary Clinton's Interview With The FBI; The Olympics And The Presidential Race. Aired 9-10a ET

Aired August 14, 2016 - 09:00   ET




JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Off-message. Trump claims sarcasm after his comments about Obama and Clinton fuel fury.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: He is the founder of ISIS. He is the founder of ISIS. He is the founder.

TAPPER: But as new polls show him behind in key battleground states, can his provocative comments prove a winning strategy? His campaign chairman will be here live.

And breaking point. Some Republicans say it's time to cut bait on Trump and focus on winning other races. Trump says he doesn't even need their money to begin with.

TRUMP: I am the one that's funding. I'm the one that is raising the money. And other people are getting to use the money that I raise.

TAPPER: Who will win as the GOP infighting continues?

Plus, e-mail albatross -- breaking news that notes from Clinton's interviews with the FBI might be released as soon as tomorrow. With continued questions about the non-separation of Clinton Foundation and State, can she ever get out from under this cloud?

And all the best political minds will be here with insights from the campaign trail.


TAPPER: Hello. I am Jake Tapper in Washington, where the state of our union is a bit sweaty.

Nearly a dozen people were treated for heat-related symptoms after 5,000 Donald Trump supporters packed into a steamy Connecticut gym last night to hear Mr. Trump unplugged.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TRUMP: I will tell you, honestly, I am not running against crooked Hillary Clinton. I am running against the crooked media. That's what I'm running against. It's true.


TRUMP: I'm not running against crooked Hillary.



TAPPER: Trump took hits at your friends at CNN, but his wrath mostly seemed to focus on "The New York Times."

A new story in that newspaper paints the Trump campaign as somewhat unmoored, with the candidate described as depressed and scared as he realizes he may not be able to win.


TRUMP: Oh, you better elect me, folks. I will never speak to you again. Cam you imagine -- can you imagine how badly I will feel if I spent all of that money, all of this energy, all of this time, and lost.

I will never, ever forgive the people of Connecticut.


TAPPER: Joining me from New York is Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort.

Mr. Manafort, thanks so much for joining us today.


TAPPER: So, Republicans in Washington and throughout the country, as I don't need to tell you, are starting to get very worried that Mr. Trump doesn't have the discipline to stay on message and win the election.

You see the polling showing him behind in battleground states. I know he did an economic speech Monday, and he is going to do a speech on terrorism tomorrow. But, in between, of course, he does seem to go off-message. Last night, he was talking about Monica Lewinsky's blue dress.

What do you say to Republicans when they call you up and say please get Mr. Trump to focus?

MANAFORT: Well, first of all, the piece you just did is an example of why we're -- he said last night that, besides running against Hillary Clinton, he's running against the media.

The point he was making is, this week was a substantive week. He talked about an economic plan. And Hillary Clinton presented her economic plan. They were two different plans. Our plan very clearly laid out how he was going to cut taxes, lower -- lower the tax rates for small businesses, how that would create more jobs. He talked about his trade policy.

He talked about his energy policy and making America energy- independent. And she laid out a program which, frankly, is exactly what this administration is doing, raising taxes, raising spending, increasing the national debt. And our -- there was a -- there was a debate that could have been had there.

Instead, the media chose to take her, Clinton -- the Clinton campaign narrative and go on attack on Donald Trump.

Donald Trump, in the course of this week, was very substantive on -- when he visited a number of battleground states. You didn't cover it. But, frankly, the local media is covering it. And so, from our standpoint, we're pleased that we're getting the coverage that we need in the battleground states, where this campaign is going to be fought.

Additionally, we think that, contrary to your report and contrary to "The New York Times"' nameless sources story, the campaign is moving to get forward and is very strong. We raised over $132 million in the last two months. We're organized in all 50 states, all 50 states.

We have been in the battleground states every day this month, including Pennsylvania, Ohio and Florida multiple times this month. And we are starting to get traction in those states.

TAPPER: So -- so...

MANAFORT: So, we are concerned -- we are convinced that, contrary to the stories of "The New York Times," which are not correct, and contrary to the lead-in to this interview of Trump unplugged, that Trump is very plugged in. He is very connected.


And you're seeing crowds attending these appearances that are end-of- October numbers, not -- they're not August numbers. In August, look at the crowds Hillary Clinton is getting. She is appearing before 30, 40, 100 people. He's appearing before 10,000, 15,000, 20,000 people. That shows you the campaign is working, and contrary to what the media is saying.

TAPPER: So, one of the reasons that Mr. Trump's message about the economy on Monday was sidetracked was, of course, when he raised the possibility of Second Amendment people taking matters into their own hands to stop Clinton from appointing pro-gun control judges.

That's a controversy that you reject. Trump said afterwards that no one thought he was suggesting violence, but I want you -- I want you take a listen. Here is Mr. Trump.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TRUMP: Nobody in that room thought anything other than what you just said, that there can be no other interpretation. Even reporters have told me, I mean, give me a break.


TAPPER: So -- but here is the thing. It wasn't just reporters. It was Republicans. It was people in Washington, D.C., who want Mr. Trump to win.

And then, if you look at the speech, when he made those remarks, the man with the white beard who was sitting right behind Mr. Trump at that event, CNN tracked him down. Take a listen.


DARRELL VICKERS, ATTENDED TRUMP RALLY: I was just absolutely taken aghast.

Down here in the South, we don't curse in front of women, we don't drink liquor in front of the preacher, and we don't make jokes like that in public.

We would have taken Mr. Trump to the shed and said, don't say things like that, because people will misconstrue it.


TAPPER: So that's Darrell Vickers. That's a man who is going to vote for Trump. And he interpreted it the same way a lot of other people do.

Now, does Mr. Trump need to listen to what Mr. Vickers had to say, which is, be more careful with your words?

MANAFORT: Look, I'm not going to say that he didn't interpret it that way or not.

The point is, most people did not interpret it that way. It was not meant at all to be a threat. But the point, again, is, you could have covered what he was saying, or you could try and make -- take an aside and take the Clinton narrative and play it out.

And you -- and chose to do that instead. I mean, there's plenty of news to cover this week that I haven't seen covered. You had information coming out about pay-for-play out of e-mails of Hillary Clinton's that weren't turned over, by the way, to the Justice Department for her investigation. That's a major news story.

You had -- you had the NATO base in Turkey being under attack by terrorists. You had a number of things that were appropriate to this campaign, were part of what Mr. Trump has been talking about.

You had economic numbers coming out this week that showed that productivity is down, housing ownership is down, unemployment, you know, is at the -- at over 102 million. These are all things that could have been covered this week.


MANAFORT: Instead, you took an aside that the Clinton narrative told you was something, Mr. Trump told you he didn't mean, and you played it out for two days.

TAPPER: OK. First of all...

MANAFORT: And that's what we're talking about.

TAPPER: ... and the -- but, just as a factual matter, on Monday, my show covered Mr. Trump's speech, OK? We did. We covered Mr. Trump's speech. We covered the narrative. And we did cover those Hillary Clinton e-mails.

So, when -- these things, just because you say them, they're not -- they're not true. I mean, we have been covering the substance. We have been covering the things that are bad to Hillary Clinton.

MANAFORT: Jake, we -- we -- Jake, we have been talking about these messages all week. You covered it one day, and you covered this aside about the Second Amendment for three days.

I mean, come on. There's not a comparison here. You had a chance to have a serious discussion about the two economic programs that were presented this past week, this very week, by the two candidates. There was no discussion. There was no comparison. Instead, you took these asides.

TAPPER: And you -- and Mr. Trump bears no responsibility -- and Mr. Trump bears no responsibility for his campaign being off-message? He is not the -- his comments about the Second Amendment had nothing to do with why we weren't covering the economic message?

MANAFORT: His point about the Second Amendment was that people who cared about the Second Amendment should be concerned about Hillary Clinton's candidacy, and that those who are concerned probably would take up the cause.

Now, there's -- you can interpret it, which I certainly didn't, as a threat.

But if you want to go back and look at threats, then you ought to look -- go back to 2008, when Hillary Clinton was running against Obama, and in May of that year, when she was clearly the loser and asked, why are you still in the race, she said, well, remember, Bobby Kennedy was assassinated in 1968.

I mean, that's a much more direct reference, and laid at the feet of Hillary Clinton.


TAPPER: We did cover -- I did cover that in 2008. I did cover it in 2008. And Hillary Clinton, you know what she did? She issued an apology.

She said: I'm sorry my comments were meant that way, construed that way. That's not how I meant it.

But let's move on.

I want to ask you about Governor Mike Pence, Mr. Trump's running mate. He yesterday told an interviewer that he would soon release his tax returns. Hillary Clinton and Tim Kaine have already released their tax returns.


That puts him at odds with Mr. Trump. Back in 2012, Trump pushed then nominee Mitt Romney to release his taxes. Take a listen.


TRUMP: You didn't see the tax returns, you would think there's almost, like, something wrong. What's wrong?


TAPPER: So, that's Mr. Trump saying, you need to see the tax returns; otherwise, you think, what's wrong?

You could put this whole tax return issue to rest right now if you release Mr. Trump's 2008 returns. That's a year no longer under audit, according to Mr. Trump's lawyers.

You obviously have made the calculation it's better to take the hit than to let the public see what's in those taxes.

But Mr. Trump said in 2012, as he said, what's wrong in these tax returns? What do you not want the public to see?

MANAFORT: There is nothing that doesn't want the public to see.

Mr. Trump's position has been clear from the beginning. He's under audit. When the audit is completed, he will release his returns.

By the way, in Mrs. Clinton's returns, you saw a lot of income coming from donors to the Clinton Foundation and people who benefit from her State Department term as well. I haven't seen any stories on that yet.

TAPPER: Mr. Trump unveiled his economic plan this week. I want to ask you about that, if we can.


TAPPER: He proposed across-the-board tax cuts, with the biggest monetary benefit going to the top 1 percent.

Now, you compare that to the rhetoric that Mr. Trump offered back in September. Take a listen. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, SEPTEMBER 2015)

TRUMP: It reduces or eliminates most of the deductions and loopholes available to special interests and to the very rich. In other words, it's going to cost me a fortune.


TAPPER: Now listen to what Mr. Trump had to say to "The Today Show" in March.


QUESTION: Do you believe in raising taxes on the wealthy?

TRUMP: I do. I do, including myself. I do.


TAPPER: Does seem that the plan he unveiled Monday walks away from what he said in March and last September, when he talked about how it was going to really hurt the very wealthy.

MANAFORT: I'm sorry. I couldn't hear the last sentence, Jake.

TAPPER: My question is, his tax plan, as unveiled Monday, seems to walk away from what he said in September and March, when he said the very wealthy would pay much more.

MANAFORT: Not at all.

He lays out three rates, 12 percent, 25 percent, and 35 percent. In those rates, what he's talking -- talking about is increasing the -- and taking away a number of deductions that are used by the very wealthy.

I'm sorry. It's 33 percent.

Taking away deductions that are only used by the wealthy, so that -- but, more importantly, he removes from the tax rolls a significant percentage of the American people. Taxes will go down. There will be more real spending income for middle-income working families.

And, as a result of this tax plan and all of the components of the tax plan, the trade elements, the -- the investment elements, you're going to have a situation where jobs are going to come back to America, manufacturing is going to benefit again, the coal industry is going to benefit again, the oil and gas industry is going to benefit again, which means more jobs, good-paying jobs.

And, as a result, the economy will grow again, unlike what it has under Obama, where you have had the slowest growth since World War II. And the Clinton plan that was announced this week would simply be more of the same, so that the kind of growth you have experienced for the last eight years, you will experience for four more years, whereas the Trump plan, similar to the Reagan plan and, frankly, similar to the John F. Kennedy plan in 1961, would spur growth, create jobs and lower taxes for most Americans.

TAPPER: But it wouldn't cost Mr. Trump a fortune, is my point.

But I only have time for one more question, sir, so let me ask you this.

The co-chairman of Donald Trump's New York campaign, Carl Paladino, said this week that Khizr Khan doesn't deserve to be called a Gold Star parent, even though his son died fighting for the U.S. in Iraq heroically, because, in the words of your New York co-chair, Carl Paladino, Mr. Khan supports this ISIS-type attitude against America.

Medal of Honor recipient Dakota Meyer responded to Mr. Paladino, saying: "The Khans gave the ultimate sacrifice, their only son, to our nation in the war on terror. To attack them and claim that they somehow don't deserve to be called Gold Star parents is a slap in the face to everyone who has ever served in the military."

Do you think that, by having Mr. Paladino continue to serve as your New York co-chair, you're dishonoring the military?

MANAFORT: Look, I -- I will follow up on -- I'm not sure what he said. I hear you saying that.

I know I am concerned that the father of the Pulse cabaret murderer who killed a number of gays -- gays in Florida two months ago was sitting in the VIP section of Hillary Clinton's speech last week in Florida. That concerns me, wondering how he could get into that kind of speech. He is an avowed Islamic radical. And that -- that concerns me. She has totally ignored that fact.


TAPPER: All right, you didn't address the question at all. But that's all the time we have.

MANAFORT: Well, I don't -- I don't know about the quote. I don't know about the quote. I would have to check into the situation.

Certainly, Mr. Trump has made it very clear that he recognizes the sacrifices of all Gold Star parents, and he -- he empathized for that loss. And he talked about the importance of having a policy that will reduce the risk of terrorist threats in America and in around the world.


MANAFORT: And, this week, we will be talking about that.

TAPPER: Mr. Paladino, your New York co-chair, is attacking a Gold Star family. So, you might want to look into that.

Thank you so much. I really appreciated it.

MANAFORT: Thank you, Jake. TAPPER: Coming up: jumping ship, lifelong Republicans saying they're

so fed up with Donald Trump, they'd rather vote for Hillary Clinton, even a former Bush Cabinet member. What made him make the switch?

He will be here next.


TAPPER: Welcome back to STATE OF THE UNION. I'm Jake Tapper.

Switching teams, it doesn't happen that often in politics, especially when you work in the White House.


But our next guest went from walking the halls of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue with then President George W. Bush as one of his Cabinet secretaries to, in the last few days, announcing his support for the Democratic nominee for president, Hillary Clinton.

It's a remarkable move for a man who has been, up until now, a lifelong Republican. But he says Donald Trump has just pushed him too far.

Former Commerce Secretary Carlos Gutierrez is here.

Thanks so much for being here.


TAPPER: Appreciate it.

So, Hillary Clinton is a -- she is a pretty liberal Democrat. Was this a tough choice for you?

GUTIERREZ: Oh, it was.

I have been a Republican (OFF-MIKE). My inclination was to vote for a Republican. I was a Jeb Bush person.

When I made the switch away from Trump, it was the -- that week of Judge Curiel, "my African-American." That, for me, did it. I mean, I -- that's it. I don't want to go back to a country where, if a child has a Spanish last name, that the president, the leader of the country, is giving kids a license to bully them.


GUTIERREZ: To make fun of a handicapped reporter.

TAPPER: So, let me ask you...

GUTIERREZ: To say that POWs aren't really heroes.

TAPPER: We're having microphone issues right now? Guys, come on in. Just do the microphone.

We're having a problem right here live on air. I'm sorry.

GUTIERREZ: All right. It's OK.

TAPPER: It's OK. Just put it -- we're doing this live on air. This is how television works sometimes.

So, let me ask you, there are a lot of Republicans, obviously, who don't think highly of Hillary Clinton's ethics or her honesty or her trustworthiness. Or -- is any of this an issue for you?

GUTIERREZ: Well, obviously, the whole thing is a consideration. And I had to look at the totality of the picture.

I have one resume here for Donald Trump. I have one resume here for Hillary Clinton. And I have chosen this resume. I think this person, Hillary Clinton, is the best for the country.

I am not thinking about a Republican. I am thinking about a U.S. citizen. I think, at some point, you have to put the party aside and say, what's best for the country? I don't want to live in a society that I think Donald Trump will create.

TAPPER: So, you're -- you were a Jeb guy. You worked for George W. Bush. Did you let them know, hey, I'm going to endorse...

GUTIERREZ: I sent e-mails out.

TAPPER: You sent e-mails out?


TAPPER: Did they write back? Did they respond?


TAPPER: You know, it's weird. I haven't heard from George W. Bush, Jeb Bush, George H.W. Bush or any of their spouses, who are certainly all strong women in their own right, about who they're going to vote for.


I think that that's one option, is to not vote. And that's an option I had. But I think that's letting ourselves off the hook. And I actually think that Hillary Clinton has the experience. She has been around. She knows how the system works.

I think she would make a darned good president. I would have preferred Jeb Bush.

TAPPER: You would have preferred Jeb Bush.

GUTIERREZ: But I think Hillary is a great choice.

I am afraid of what Donald Trump would do to this country.

TAPPER: What are you afraid of? What do you mean, other than...

GUTIERREZ: Look, first, first of all, I mean, the economy is important to me.

His plan -- I like -- I love the tax cuts. I am a Republican. But then he has this sort of import substitution strategy, which is a strategy like an underdeveloped country. Very poor countries think that way: We have to substitute our imports.

That would be a disaster, especially if you cut taxes.

TAPPER: So, Hillary Clinton, you think, would be better for the economy?

GUTIERREZ: I think so.

I think that one thing the Clintons learned during President Clinton's time in office is budget deficits hinder growth. And that's what President Clinton did in the second term, is cut the deficit. And that drove the growth. She has learned from that. I'm sure she knows that.

TAPPER: You are the former -- go ahead.

GUTIERREZ: The other thing, too, is just the kind of society that we will create.

I heard the other day, as you know, that David Duke is running for Congress in Louisiana.

TAPPER: Yes, he is running for Senate.

GUTIERREZ: All right? And he's running for Senate.

And he is under Trump's platform. Is that a trend? Are we going to see more of that? Is that the kind of society we're going to be? Are we going back 50 years? I don't want to go back 50 years.

TAPPER: I can already anticipate what Mr. Trump will say about -- about it. He will say, you are the former CEO of Kellogg, former commerce secretary. Your company helps multinationals gain market entry. You sit on the boards of Occidental, MetLife, Time Warner.

GUTIERREZ: Absolutely.

TAPPER: You're part of the global elite.

GUTIERREZ: I am a proud free enterprise guy. And I believe in trade and I believe in free enterprise.

Hey, Secretary Clinton talked a lot about -- in her economic speech, a lot about new business formation. That's -- that's the core of our growth, new businesses. Microsoft was once a new business. And it became a large business. Most new jobs come from new businesses. Those are concepts that you

may say, well, it's kind of obvious. I haven't heard an economic concept come out of Trump's mouth, except for protectionism and lower taxes. You put those two together, that is a recipe for disaster.

TAPPER: What are you hearing from other people in the global elite, if you will pardon the expression, because, usually, they vote Republican?


They were proud supporters of Mitt Romney, proud supporters of George W. Bush, proud supporters of John McCain. Where are your fellow CEO types in this election?

GUTIERREZ: Most of them are totally disgusted.


GUTIERREZ: By the Trump nomination. They don't know what to do.

So, as you said, you know, there is this relationship with the Clintons, the Republicans and Clintons, and it hasn't been great. And so they're reluctant to support Secretary Clinton. But they're not going to vote for Donald Trump.

And I think that will be a big problem for the Trump campaign. But, Jake, this is a time to think about the country, and even think about the party. If Trump wins, I think it's a tactical victory for him and a strategic loss for the GOP.

And this is the time to stand up and be -- and show some leadership.

TAPPER: Where does the Republican -- if Trump does not win in November, where does the Republican Party go from there? Will you help rebuild it?

GUTIERREZ: See, yes, of course. I am still a Republican.

And I think that's an interesting way of thinking about it, is, is this the message we, the wake-up call that we need to reassess who we are as a party?

TAPPER: But isn't your party -- aren't your party leaders out of step with the voters? They don't like these trade deals that you have pushed for.

GUTIERREZ: Well, trade deals have traditionally been, you know, supported by Republicans.

And I think it's a mistake. This is one thing where I am not in agreement with either of the two candidates. I think TPP is necessary. You know, Asia is being created into a trade bloc. And unless we have TPP, a lot of our companies will be locked out, not today, but five, 10 years from now.

TAPPER: So you're supporting Hillary Clinton, even though you have different views on trade?

GUTIERREZ: Look, I don't agree...

TAPPER: She voted against -- you negotiated CAFTA. She voted against it.


GUTIERREZ: I don't agree 100 percent with anyone.

But I believe Hillary Clinton will make a good president. And I'm going to support Hillary Clinton. And I'm going to do everything possible to make sure that the GOP doesn't get destroyed.

TAPPER: Former Commerce Secretary Carlos Gutierrez, thank you so much for being here.


TAPPER: We appreciate it.

Trump now warning his supporters the election will be rigged and asking them to volunteer as election observers. Is he laying the groundwork to contest the voting results?


TRUMP: The only way they can beat it, in my opinion -- and I mean this 100 percent -- if, in certain sections of the state, they cheat.





TRUMP: It's either going to work or I'm going to, you know, I'm going to have a very, very nice long vacation.


TAPPER: A very, very nice long vacation. That sounds -- sounds nice to me but is that the future Donald Trump is imagining after seeing the latest poll numbers?

Here with me CNN political commentators Amanda Carpenter and Bakari Sellers. Democratic Congressman Xavier Becerra and former Republican Governor of Arizona Jan Brewer.

So Jan -- governor, let me start with you. Whatever happened to we're going to win so much you're going to be sick of winning? Now he's talking about nice long vacations.

JAN BREWER (R), FORMER ARIZONA GOVERNOR: I think, Jake, that anybody in this embattled campaign they think, well, if I don't win I'm going on a long vacation. It's not unheard of -- of candidates saying that. I've said it. I think everybody has said it --


TAPPER: You've said it publicly? I mean...


BREWER: I have. I have.

TAPPER: ... said (ph) it (ph) privately.

BREWER: You know, even if you win sometimes you think you deserve a nice long vacation. Campaigning is difficult, as you are well aware.

TAPPER: Yes. I know, it's very tough.

BREWER: And I -- you know, it's like 18 hours a day, grind, grind, seven days a week. And -- you deserve a vacation. So why not? But Donald Trump is going to win.

TAPPER: OK. But, Bakari, what did you make of the tone?

BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Actually, I think there are a lot of Americans who really want Donald Trump to go on a nice long vacation.

I think that Donald Trump, what we're starting to see is him take some different tacts (ph). For example yesterday Donald Trump was campaigning in Connecticut. I don't think there's any GOP strategist that will tell you that Connecticut is going to all of a sudden turn red because it's simply not.

I think that Donald Trump -- I was reading in the "New York Times" article, although they don't write good as Donald Trump has said recently. But I think we're starting to see Donald Trump's campaign is just falling apart at the seams. We saw that earlier with Paul Manafort on this show just earlier. And they're trying to regroup but Donald Trump just will not stay on the rails. At least Corey Lewandowski, our new colleague, had him on the rails. There were rails there now he's just falling completely apart.

TAPPER: But let me ask you, Amanda, you heard Mr. Manafort blaming the media for (INAUDIBLE) but Donald Trump -- he's on message. He's got a plan. He's talking about it but the media is just following the Hillary Clinton playbook in covering the distractions. What did you make of that? And what do you think?

AMANDA CARPENTER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Here's the thing. Donald Trump started off the week relatively OK. He had an economic speech I listened to. I said, gosh, there are some things we could work with here.

He's on message. And then what did he do shortly after? He went out and decided his talking point for the week would be that Obama founded ISIS. He made his surrogates go out and defend it for an entire day. And then he came out a day later saying he was only being sarcastic. He blew his economic speech and then spent three days on the talking point that he then took back as sarcastic. That is the problem.

TAPPER: And what do you make of it, congressman? I mean, Hillary Clinton -- and we'll talk about her in the next -- in the next panel, but Hillary Clinton, she's not been able to break 50 percent in a lot of the polls. So even though she is up like in double digits in some of them, it really seems to be an indication of his weakness more than her like super-strength.

REP. XAVIER BECERRA (D), CALIFORNIA: Self-inflicted wounds. Clearly Donald Trump is his own worst enemy and he is causing himself difficulty. And he is a guy that -- who just won't follow the script. He won't follow any direction and he thinks it works. And it doesn't. And I'm going to be the first to buy him flip-flops for that long vacation because (INAUDIBLE).

TAPPER: Don't you as a Trump supporter -- doesn't this bother you when he goes out there and makes a -- I don't know how you interpret it, but his remark about the second amendment, which definitely got him off message for a day or two.


And then he starts talking about Obama is the founder of ISIS. Doesn't that bother you? You want him to win.

BREWER: Absolutely I want him to win. And I believe that the American public wants him to win. And I believe he will win.

TAPPER: Not according to the polls.

BREWER: Well, we have polls clearly are saying that he is closing that gap now. They're moving forward. I have them in front of me here. But the bottom line is that he -- we are closing in the polls.

But Donald Trump is out there talking to the people, and he is very realistic. And he is a different kind of candidate. A lot different than Hillary Clinton who doesn't give press conferences, doesn't answer questions. And the media tends to look at a few little statements that he might say off the cuff and blow them up.

Let's talk about the policies that he's put out, and getting ready to do another policy release on Monday on terrorism. And I hope that it is well received. I'm sure that it will be because those are the issues that people are concerned about. They're concerned about jobs, the economy, security. And we want to hear more about that rather than the press completely and continuously just beating down on certain little one-word sentences.

TAPPER: How dare we cover the comments he makes.

One of the things he said the other day was about how -- that the election might be rigged and the only way he would lose a state like Pennsylvania, which has not gone Republican in presidential contests since I was 19 years old, since 1988. He said the only way he would lose Pennsylvania is if the election were rigged. Take a listen.


TRUMP: The only way we can lose, in my opinion -- I really mean this, Pennsylvania -- is if cheating goes on. I really believe it.


TAPPER: He is down 10 points in the latest Q (ph) poll in Pennsylvania. How on earth is that a responsible thing to say?

BREWER: Well, I believe -- and I was the chief election officer of the state of Arizona for six years, so we know that the integrity of voting is very important, not only to Donald Trump but to everyone. Everybody wants to know that their vote does count.

So we have implemented all kinds of security procedures. Poll watchers, the certification of the equipment, the instructions, the -- all this --

TAPPER: You're not really answering the question.

SELLERS: If I may just -- sorry to interrupt you, governor. But if I may, this is a long list, the litany of Donald Trump denigrating our democracy.

He has no respect for the institutions of this country. Now whether or not it's the judiciary and his attacks on Judge Curiel. Now he's denigrating our democracy. The root of our democracy which is our elections.

I have a very, very big problem with the voter I.D. which has, you know, gone rampant in the Republican Party as they try to prevent black and brown people from voting and no senior can (ph) vote (ph) --

BREWER: Well that's absolutely ridiculous. That is ridiculous.

SELLERS: Well that -- that is -- well, you don't have any --

BREWER: We have implemented voter I.D. in Arizona. It is working absolutely perfect.

SELLERS: Arizona had some of the worst primary elections of this cycle. And I think that everyone understands that.

BREWER: How so?

SELLERS: Because you had lines especially in the Democratic primary you had lines of four and five hours where people were not able to vote. But voter I.D. has been proven to disenfranchise older people and people who are black and brown.

BREWER: Base -- on the basis of (INAUDIBLE) and in regards to the -- to the numbers in the past they put up polling places --

(CROSSTALK) SELLERS: Well, how many instances --


TAPPER: I want to get back to the issue about challenging the idea of Pennsylvania. If Mr. Trump loses Pennsylvania. It's only because it's rigged.

CARPENTER: Sure. And we saw Donald Trump use this kind of talking point through the primary process. Any state that he won, he overcame the rigged process by such overwhelming margins that he had to win by such a big thing. You know, where Ted Cruz won a state, the election was rigged.

But here is the problem. I see more largely that Donald Trump say things like this he's a provocateur without a point. If he was trying to say this election may be rigged, we need voter I.D. logs, that there was some kind of turning point in that where he was going into a positive direction, you could see where he was going, that would be one thing. But he's just denigrating the process in a way that he thinks will be advantageous to him and no one else.

TAPPER: All right. Everyone stay right there.

Bill Clinton unleashed. What the ex-president said as his aides were trying to rush him off the stage. It's Congressman Becerra's favorite subject. That's next.



TAPPER: Welcome back to CNN's STATE OF THE UNION. I'm Jake Tapper.

We have some breaking news this morning. Sources telling me that the contents of Hillary Clinton's interview with the FBI -- those contents are headed to congress. It's not a transcript. There are notes taken by an FBI agent about Clinton's interview, both content and impressions of the interview.

Several Republican lawmakers have requested the information following FBI Director James Comey's testimony regarding Clinton's email practices. This news follows reports of a dispute within the FBI over whether to release the information.

Let's talk about it more with our panel. Congressman Becerra, again, this email story, it's just not going away.

BECERRA: We can talk about it. We can investigate it as much as we want. The professionals who are non-partisan investigated it. The FBI came to a conclusion.

I suspect that what we'll find is congress, the Republicans, will probably selectively leak certain portions of that. I suggest that we let the public see the entire set of notes if we're going to start to leak some of them because it's important for people to understand that the FBI did as thorough an investigation on this as possible on this. It's time to talk about job creation, about taking care of the Zika virus, making sure Flint, Michigan has clean water. All the things -- opioid abuse. Let's start taking about the things Americans are worried about now.

TAPPER: Amanda, what do you make of this development? Obviously this is going -- this is going to breathe some new life, some new attention to -- something that the Clinton campaign doesn't want to talk about.

CARPENTER: Yes. We should see this information. We know that Hillary Clinton said that she was truthful with the FBI. She was not truthful with congress. She is -- she's still (INAUDIBLE) investigation.

TAPPER: Comey said she was truthful to the FBI.

CARPENTER: Yes. She was truthful to the FBI. She was not truthful to the American people. She is still (INAUDIBLE) investigations from congress and the inspector general. So we should see what it looks like when Hillary Clinton is truthful.

But Republicans should be very careful to not come off as they're conducting or second-guessing the FBI.


This should be about getting clarity on the situation, getting information into the public sphere and letting the people decide.

SELLERS: And I agree with that. This is a very horrible precedent to set.

Now the Congress, the United States Congress is going to back, go around and start back-checking the FBI and the work they do, especially in interviews. This is another story that's much ado about nothing.

Earlier this week we had emails from the Clinton Foundation one of which was someone actually giving information to the secretary of state, wasn't receiving anything. The other was a young man trying to get a job. He was a former events (ph) person. He wasn't a staffer. He wasn't a donor or anything, simply trying to get a job because of the work he did in Haiti.

And then I believe it was on your show, Jake, where we broke the news of Cheryl Mills on her private time going to New York to take part in a charity, which is what the foundation is. So all of these stories combined are really much ado about nothing. And when you -- and when you look at it one of the things that I hope the Clinton campaign begins to do is start talking about the millions of children that the Clinton Foundation helps around the world. The millions of women who now have health care around the world. The millions of young people who are now getting educated around the world because of the Clinton Foundation.

TAPPER: Governor? BREWER: Hillary Clinton is a known non-truth teller.

The bottom line is that the people of America know that she does not tell the truth. She -- and we deserve the right to see the transcripts or the notes from the FBI. Director Comey said that she was untruthful. She has a history --

TAPPER: That's not what he said. He said --


TAPPER: I guess the fact-check is and then I'll let you finish (ph) (INAUDIBLE). He said that she was truthful to the FBI and then when read a bunch of statements that she made to the American people he said that they were not true.

BREWER: And she didn't tell the truth to the American public. She completely lied to the American public.

People need somebody with character to sit in the White House and to direct and be the commander in chief of this country. And Hillary Clinton --


BECERRA: (INAUDIBLE) 30,000 emails or pages of emails, we know about as much as this as we're going to find.

The FBI is now being investigated by the congress, the Republicans in congress. It's time for us to take a look at one tax return from Donald Trump. Maybe find out how his wife got her legal status to be in this country. Those are the kinds of things that I think people really deserve to know.

BREWER: I think the people need to know...


BECERRA: If he's going to ban immigrants...

BREWER: ... president of the United States the dishonest and --


BECERRA: ... he should try to explain how his wife became a legal immigrant and then became a citizen.

BREWER: And you have an Obama administration that directs the DOJ not to prosecute.

BECERRA: That's not what happened. That never happened.


SELLERS: This is what happens -- this is what happens in Trump's America. We begin to get fact free. That is not what happened. We can't live in this fact free America.

What happens is the DOJ, the Department of Justice, actually looked into the Clinton Foundation found there was nothing there. So when the FBI came back and said, we want to look into it, they said, we've already taken that step and there is nothing there.

CARPENTER: No. (INAUDIBLE) FBI said that they had a tip from a foreign national that had a questionable donation -- had some kind of questionable financial transaction who was also a donor to the Clinton Foundation. The DOJ then said, we already looked at some allocations (INAUDIBLE) Clinton (INAUDIBLE).

SELLERS: Correct.

CARPENTER: It may have been two separate subjects. But the reason why everyone wants to go back and look at the investigation, I think, is because Hillary Clinton doesn't answer any questions.

Look at what happened in the State Department press meeting earlier this week. Reporters tried to find out --


CARPENTER: I'm talking about the State --

SELLERS: She did a full committee (ph) --

CARPENTER: ... conference we had to pay to get in. She does not do press conferences.

SELLERS: No, no, no, no, no. That's not what I -- that's not what I'm referring to.

CARPENTER: She does not answer questions from the press. That is why people --

SELLERS: She sat there for 11 hours, 11 hours in front --

CARPENTER: That was the Benghazi investigation not the Clinton foundation.

SELLERS: In front of the Benghazi -- so now we want to have another investigation with her sitting there for 11 hours?


CARPENTER: Why does Hillary Clinton find it that she has to keep the Clinton Foundation running while she is secretary of state, while she is campaigning --

SELLERS: Because of what the Clinton Foundation does. I mean, listen --

(CROSSTALK) CARPENTER: Isn't being presidential candidate good enough?

SELLERS: I'm not going to be -- I'm not going to be one of these people --

CARPENTER: Couldn't she just be a public servant? Why does she have to keep it going?

SELLERS: I'm not going to be one of the people who backs away from the good work the Clinton Foundation does. And I hope that the campaign begins to be an --


CARPENTER: Isn't being president possibly enough for her and Bill?

SELLERS: Well -- why can't they do good work through the foundation?

CARPENTER: Why can't they...


CARPENTER: .... presidency?

SELLERS: Because children need the Clinton Foundation throughout the world.


SELLERS: You have 9.9 million kids who now have access...


SELLERS: ... to vaccinations because of the Clinton Foundation.


BECERRA: ... Jake, we don't --


BREWER: And Clintons need the foundation to fill their pockets. They run around the countries pick-pocketing everybody to put into their personal bank accounts not --


SELLERS: Governor -- governor, this -- we'll make a deal. I'm going to get -- I'm going to get president -- Secretary Clinton to do a press conference on the Clinton Foundation when you get Donald Trump's tax returns.

CARPENTER (ph): Deal.


TAPPER: All right. I'm glad. Common ground. Common ground achieved here right now.

USA, USA. It's a chant we have heard at the Rio games and the conventions in Cleveland and Philly. What else do the Olympics and the presidential race have in common? Well that's the subject of this week's "State of the Cartoonion."



TAPPER: Welcome back.

Someone said we don't win anymore. Must not be watching the Americans swim in Rio tonight. That was a quote -- a tweet from former presidential candidate John Kasich, trolling Donald Trump a bit, I guess, on Twitter this weekend. But it's hard to argue that American greatness has not been on display at this Olympics. Our athletes seem to be even a little bit more sportsmanlike than our candidates. And that's all the subject of this week's "State of the Cartoonion."


TAPPER (voice-over): It happens only once every four years. A test of endurance, strength and skill. I'm talking about the presidential election of course and it has more in common with the summer Olympics than you might think.

OK. So we aren't likely to see Clinton and Trump in their Speedos. But they will go toe to toe in the debates in a few weeks.

Swimmer Michael Phelps had an in the zone moment with his famous Phelps' face. Will Clinton and Trump follow suit? What events might they be good at?


Hillary Clinton's tortured explanations about her email server, might make her good for women's gymnastics, contortioning. And of course Mr. Trump an expert at the self-inflicted wounds. OK. So these candidates are unlikely to be mistaken for athletes anytime soon but you have to give them credit for running in a race so long it puts marathons to shame and there is no silver medal.


TAPPER: Thanks for spending your Sunday with us. You can catch me here every Sunday and weekdays on "THE LEAD" at 4:00 p.m. Eastern.

Go to for extras from the show. I'm Jake Tapper in Washington.