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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield
Trump Campaign Shake-up; Clinton Economy Speech; Louisiana Flooding. Aired 12-12:30p ET
Aired August 17, 2016 - 12:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[12:00:05] ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Ashleigh Banfield. Welcome to LEGAL VIEW.
It is now 83 days, folks, that's the number of days away from the general election. And, once again, Donald Trump is shaking things up at the top of his campaign. Mr. Trump has named two officials to oversee his campaign, which has seen some slagging poll numbers of late. The second major overhaul in as many months is seeing campaign chairman Paul Manafort keeping his title, but the team at the top now sees Republican strategist and pollster Kellyanne Conway promoted to campaign manager. In the meantime, Steven Bannon, the chief executive at Breitbart News, has been named the campaign's chief executive.
And in another telling twist, sources tell CNN that Trump did not consult his children regarding this decision. That's a major shift in the way things are normally done within that Trump campaign.
I want to get the very latest now from CNN's Jessica Schneider, who's live outside of Trump Tower with the very latest.
So, Bannon and Conway. To a lot of insiders, they know the names. To a lot of outsiders, they're wondering, just exactly what are they going to bring to this whole operation. Explain.
JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, you know, Ashleigh, Donald Trump, in these choices, making it clear that he is taking control of this campaign. He's touting these two new additions as highly qualified people and, in his words, he's saying that they love to win and they know how to win.
So a little bit about these two who people might not know a lot about. First, let's go to Steve Bannon. He will be moving into the CEO role of this campaign. He's suspending his role as executive chairman of conservative Breitbart News, but he has a lengthy resume. He was an investment banker at Goldman Sachs, CEO of media companies, a movie producer and writer, and he's also a military veteran. He's a former U.S. Naval officer and special assistant at the Pentagon. And Bannon also holds an MBA from Harvard. And interestingly to many perhaps, he's also a stakeholder in the TV show "Seinfeld." Trump has touted Bannon, saying that he'll stick to and bolster that business-like approach in the campaign.
Now, moving on to Kellyanne Conway. She'll be the campaign manager. Effectively serving as Trump's right-hand woman, if you will, traveling with him. She has previously worked in the campaign as a senior advisor and she's also the CEO of The Polling Company. She's also worked for a number of prominent Republicans, including Newt Gingrich and Ted Cruz and also VP candidate Mike Pence. She's also a lawyer. And just a few minutes ago, she talked about Trump's approach to this entire campaign.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KELLYANNE CONWAY, DONALD TRUMP CAMPAIGN MANAGER: So I think what he doesn't like is people telling him exactly what to say and how to do it and how (INAUDIBLE).
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right.
CONWAY: Maybe that's Hillary Clinton's game. You know, what do the focus groups say.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHNEIDER: And you heard it from Kellyanne Conway, this campaign looking to portray all of these changes, as opposed to a shakeup. They're calling it an expansion. In fact, in Donald Trump's statement, Paul Manafort also joined with a quote, saying that these unique talents are necessary to move the campaign forward. An interesting statement from him trying to show some unity here, but, of course, sources saying that Manafort's role will be greatly diminish.
Ashleigh.
BANFIELD: And then there is this talk about a big meeting today. Do we know what the Trump folks have on the agenda of this meeting?
SCHNEIDER: Yes, there's a big meeting here at Trump Tower talking about these big changes. We've seen a flurry of activity here throughout the day. We even saw Alabama Senator Jeff Sessions, of course an ardent Trump supporter, saying that these changes were a great move.
And, of course, also today, Trump will be having that national security briefing. We understand that at least two people will be with him in that meeting, New Jersey Governor Chris Christie, of course, leading his transition team, as well as retired Lieutenant General Mike Flynn, who's been talking with Trump, consulting with him and helping him in that debate prep. So a big day for Donald Trump, as well as his entire campaign.
Ashleigh.
BANFIELD: All right, Jessica Schneider, thank you for that.
I want to take a deeper look, a deeper dive into this shake-up in the Trump campaign and what it means for the 2016 race. CNN's senior media correspondent and host of "Reliable Sources," Brian Stelter is here, CNN politics reporter Eugene Scott is seated behind him - beside him, and also beside Eugene is Boris Epshteyn, who is a senior adviser for the Trump campaign. Did I just mispronounce your name again?
BORIS EPSHTEYN, TRUMP CAMPAIGN SENIOR ADVISER: A little bit, but it's OK.
BANFIELD: IT's like the second time in five minutes.
EPSHTEYN: That's all right. I'm happy to be here.
BANFIELD: Boris Epshteyn.
Well, your name mispronounced aside, your - you've got a brilliant insight into the Trump campaign and I'm going to ask what specifically what you make of this big shakeup. But before I do that, more about the guys - one of the guys who's been brought in, Steven Bannon. You've done some insight, you've done some research into his background in the media and Breitbart News. Kellyanne Conway we know. She was just seated in this chair yesterday.
BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Yes.
BANFIELD: But maybe Steven Bannon not as many people do know.
[12:04:58] STELTER: Yes, certainly. His appointment kind of formalizes what's been an informal and beneficial relationship between Trump and Breitbart News. Breitbart News, a conservative news website, loaded with opinion, much of it anti-Clinton, anti-Obama and very much pro- Trump. So by bringing Bannon on the team as CEO, you would expect to see even more of the kind of news that Breitbart puts out. Very pro- Trump, unapologetically pro-Trump. A tough populist nationalist approaches toward immigration and other topics.
Bannon is a master of the political dark arts. The Trump campaign favorably quoted a Bloomberg profile calling him the most dangerous political operative in America. So that would make you think we're going to see even more tough, fiery approaches from Trump in the weeks and months to come.
BANFIELD: And he's also a former editor at large, Ben Shapiro, said that he was - "he shaped the company," Breitbart, "into Trump's personal Pravda (ph)." He's none too flattering in the way he describes him.
STELTER: He hasn't run campaigns before. He's run media companies.
EPSHTEYN: Right.
BANFIELD: Well -
STELTER: So to think about Trump as a giant media company, he's brought on a media CEO now.
BANFIELD: Boris, this is the second big shakeup since June. I mean we had Corey Lewandowski dumped off the top of the ticket. All sorts of talk about why that happened and a lot of secrecy about why that happened, now this. What's going on over there? EPSHTEYN: Everything's great. It's an expansion, just as Jessica
pointed out.
Now, you know, not much news in there that the Trump campaign is going to be unapologetically pro-Trump, right? That's exactly what you want in a campaign. You want a tough campaign. You want a campaign that is focused on winning -
STELTER: But he's hiring someone from outside the political world. He's hiring a media (INAUDIBLE).
EPSHTEYN: On the - winning (INAUDIBLE). He's also - he's also bringing Kellyanne Conway to a different position, who is very much from within the political world. So this is -
BANFIELD: Is she the ying to his yang?
EPSHTEYN: So this is the exact kind of campaign this has been. It's a campaign that's a combination of (INAUDIBLE) an outsider, very much an outsider, Donald Trump, of course combined with more traditional political backgrounds and political personalities. So it's a - really a perfect fit again.
Don't forget, Kellyanne Conway's been with the campaign for a while. Now you just said it yourself, she sat her as his senior adviser yesterday. Now she's the campaign manager, which, by the way, was a role that had not been filled since Corey Lewandowski left. So, Paul Manafort has been the chairman. He's remained the chairman. So that's why it's an expansion. It's a filling of a role that's been void and now it's filled by someone, Kellyanne, who is extremely strong.
CAMEROTA: You know what the critics will say. The critics - critics will say that Trump was having trouble and so out went Corey, in came Paul. Trump continued to have trouble because he wouldn't listen to what Paul told him to do, so now in comes the new team. But Trump continues to do what Trump wants to do. Can anybody really help him to change those numbers if he's not going to change -
EPSHTEYN: Well, I disagree with the premise, right? In June, Corey was not on the statement that announced the change, right? Today you saw Paul Manafort on the statement, on - you know, on the press release welcoming the new people to the team which was, again, which is again positive.
BANFIELD: But Dana Bash also reported last week he's just backing away. He's backing away.
EPSHTEYN: I mean Dana Bash and a lot of folks out there in the media say things that they have - don't have really that much of a background for and that -
BANFIELD: Dana Bash has a huge, huge background for that.
EPSHTEYN: (INAUDIBLE).
STELTER: But these sources are leaking - EPSHTEYN: And (INAUDIBLE) -
BANFIELD: Yes.
STELTER: We don't see Clinton (INAUDIBLE) sources leaking -
EPSHTEYN: And people - unless - unless you have -
BANFIELD: That's not fair.
EPSHTEYN: Unless you have - no, no, what I'm saying is, in that specific instance, she didn't have - she didn't say so-and-so told me. She said, oh, unnamed sources. And there's a lot of unnamed sources out there. But, you know, unless you have somebody who can back up what you're saying, there's no really use talking about it. The campaign is absolutely focused. Yes -
BANFIELD: It's how news is made. I mean that's just our business.
STELTER: We have to allow anonymous sources.
EPSHTEYN: New - news is made by - news is made -
STELTER: Anonymous sources are telling us what's really happening inside.
EPSHTEYN: When people are able to tell you what is going on and willing to put their name behind it. I'm here as a senior resident of the campaign to tell you what's actually going on.
BANFIELD: And I'm in the news business.
STELTER: But when you say -
BANFIELD: I'm here telling you that news is also made by people who say, I'll lose my job, but this is what's happening inside my world.
EPSHTEYN: So - anyway, by - back to - back to your question, the campaign is absolutely united, it's absolutely focused. No one is backing away. And everyone on that team is dedicated to winning on November 8th and going back to the issues, like we did with the speech last night in Milwaukee.
BANFIELD: All right, I want to get Eugene in on this. You've been covering, you know, the last 24 hours.
EUGENE SCOTT, CNN POLITICS REPORTER: Sure.
BANFIELD: Well, you've been covering the last year and a half.
SCOTT: Sure. Sure.
BANFIELD: But the last 24 hours in particular. We're talking about this -
SCOTT: Yes. BANFIELD: Instead of talking about what happened last night.
SCOTT: Right.
BANFIELD: And that was a big outreach that Donald Trump had in Wisconsin to African-American voters who - and minority voters who he is really struggling with right now.
SCOTT: Sure.
BANFIELD: I want to play one quick moment from that event last night -
SCOTT: Sure.
BANFIELD: And then ask you about it. Have a look.
SCOTT: Yes.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: It's time for our society to address some honest and very, very difficult truths. The Democratic Party has failed and betrayed the African-American community. Democratic crime policies, education policies and economic policies have produced only more crime, more broken homes and more poverty.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: So he's reaching out to the African-American voter and yet a lot of critics came out right away and said, that's not the way you do it. What was wrong with that message?
SCOTT: Well, one of the fundamental points that critics made was that you don't reach out to black voters by speaking to them 40 minutes outside of the city center where many black voters may be. And crime is not always the first issue that black voters say is affecting their lives most regularly. I know a lot of times people outside of the community think that is the biggest issue. But I think if Mr. Trump would attend some of the events that people have invited him to speak at, such as the NAACP Conference and the Urban League Conference and the Black Journalist Conference -
[12:10:15] BANFIELD: Which he didn't go to.
SCOTT: He didn't go to any of those.
BANFIELD: No.
SCOTT: Not any of those. And so if he could hear the issues that the voters want him to speak to, perhaps he can address those more directly. But you're not going to speak to the issues by not even being where they are.
BANFIELD: Yes.
EPSHTEYN: But to be fair, right, to be fair on that point, Hillary Clinton was nowhere to be found last night, right? Donald Trump -
SCOTT: Well, she was at a (INAUDIBLE) conference, NAACP conference, AME Conference.
EPSHTEYN: Donald Trump - Donald - Donald Trump took to the stage last night to talk about the issues.
BANFIELD: She did hit those conferences.
SCOTT: She hit (INAUDIBLE) conferences.
EPSHTEYN: If you want to talk about issues, 4,000 people, I think, have been shot in Chicago just this year.
SCOTT: Yes.
EPSHTEYN: I mean if you talk about crime as an issue in the inner cities -
SCOTT: It is.
EPSHTEYN: You cannot - you cannot say that crime is not an issue.
SCOTT: No one downplays it, but it's not the only issue though.
EPSHTEYN: But - but another - hold on. But another big issue he pointed to, which I think you probably would agree with, is that the economics or the fact that the inner cities are in absolutely despair right now.
SCOTT: Yes.
EPSHTEYN: They're being decimated.
SCOTT: Yes.
EPSHTEYN: Decimated by unemployment. Decimated by really a bleak economic outlook.
SCOTT: Sure.
EPSHTEYN: And he spoke to that last night which, again, Hillary Clinton in her 40 years now of public service has done nothing to correct it. He's out there saying, I will do so as president, again, talking to the issues that people actually care about.
STELTER: But if you were - (INAUDIBLE) - if you were - if you were proud of that speech last night, why would you then call "The Wall Street Journal" and tell them about the campaign shakeup and then have that be the story of the morning? I don't understand why Trump would want to distract from his message for African-Americans.
EPSHTEYN: Again, I disagree with the premise it's a shakeup. It's an expansion of the campaign. And it's not - it's not about distracting from any message.
BANFIELD: But why - why right after that message needed to get bandied about in the headlines for at least a news cycle?
SCOTT: For someone with 1 percent support from black voters.
EPSHTEYN: Well, but that's a - that's a - that's a - well, that's a process (ph) story we're talking about.
SCOTT: Yes, it is.
EPSHTEYN: From my perspective, last night was a speech that stood on its own. It was a strong speech, again, about topics that neither Republicans nor Democrats have really dipped (ph) into in years.
BANFIELD: What?
EPSHTEYN: And then the expansion of the team today is a good news story.
BANFIELD: Boris, why -
STELTER: I thought it was smart to give it in primetime.
BANFIELD: Why does Donald Trump have a problem would minority voters?
SCOTT: And women and Hispanics.
EPSHTEYN: Listen, from my - again, from where we stand as a campaign, Donald Trump is the candidate that's going to the root of the issues. He's talking about the economy. He's talking about revitalizing the country (ph). He's talking about trade. Seven hundred thousand jobs lost just because of NAFTA in this country. He's talking about, of course, national security, and then law and order. And law and order combined with economic issues is the - you know, is one of the main issues of the inner city. So I can't answer you about specific polls, but I will tell you, nationally, the polling is very tight and I'm very confident that we're winning -
SCOTT: If Trump (INAUDIBLE) know what the main issue is -
STELTER: Trump (INAUDIBLE).
EPSHTEYN: "The L.A. Times" within one point.
STELTER: "The L.A. Times" poll is not the kind of poll that CNN reports on because it's not - it doesn't meet those kind of standards.
EPSHTEYN: If you don't like "The L.A. Times" -
STELTER: Polling between Trump and Clinton is not very tight. And for the campaign to pretend that it is, doesn't that hurt the campaign? Doesn't it mislead the voters?
EPSHTEYN: If you don't like "The L.A. Times" poll, what about - listen, if you - if you look at Bloomberg, if you look at Reuters, that's within five or six points of a few days ago. There will be new polling out. We're in the dog days of summer. I am very confident that the polling will continue to tighten because now we're past the conventions. And as we go into September -
BANFIELD: Paul Begala (ph) said it last night -
EPSHTEYN: September, October and November, don't forget those debates. That will be very key.
STELTER: Definitely.
BANFIELD: It may have been - yes.
EPSHTEYN: And Donald Trump will squash her at the debates.
BANFIELD: Paul Begala said this last night. He said don't - don't think that the numbers are going to stay the way they are right now, but it might have been because he's a Democrat wanting to make sure Democrats don't sit on their butts and that they don't get complacent because they're that concerned.
EPSHTEYN: The Clintons are known for being over confident. She did that in '08 against Barack Obama.
BANFIELD: It happens a lot. It happens with everyone.
Boris, great to have you.
EPSHTEYN: Thanks for having me.
BANFIELD: Thank you, Eugene, as always.
SCOTT: Thanks.
BANFIELD: Brian, thank you. Appreciate it.
STELTER: Thanks.
BANFIELD: Tonight, get to know the Green Party ticket because that's important, too, folks. And we've got a town hall right here only on CNN. If you don't like the people that you're seeing regularly on the news, well, maybe you should get to know these candidates starting at 9:00 p.m. Eastern right here.
And coming up next, Hillary Clinton battling back against Donald Trump today in one of the biggest battlegrounds of all, Ohio. You always hear about Ohio when it comes to a general election. She's going to be taking on Trump's tax and economic plan. How different are they and, by the way, how similar are they?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[12:17:41] Hillary Clinton's heading back to the critical battleground state of Ohio today and she's going to focus on the economy. She's expected to slam Donald Trump on his tax policy in her speech today, saying that his tax break will only benefit wealthy Americans. But is that true? A couple of people who know a lot about this kind of thing, CNN Money correspondent Cristina Alesci and global affairs and economic analyst Ali Velshi, who's wrote, I don't know, a thousand books about money, a thousand and one, something like that.
ALI VELSHI, GLOBAL AFFAIRS AND ECONOMY ANALYST: A few less than that.
BANFIELD: A few anyway.
First to you, Cristina. This speech that Hillary Clinton is about to give, I lose track, but I tend to hear it's an economic speech a lot. I feel like we had one about a week ago or so. So what's today?
CRISTINA ALESCI, CNN MONEY CORRESPONDENT: This is a tax fairness speech. And what she's going to say is, look, Donald Trump is out there saying that he's going to protect the little guy. But if you actually look at his policies, it doesn't protect the little guy and here's why.
We have a screen that shows you the main points she's going to hit. She is going to say that the child care plan is designed for people who want to defray the cost of expensive nannies and it's not going to help the middle class. She's going to say that the estate tax repeal is a gift to him and his friends and that the business tax breaks that he's implementing or that he would like to implement, I should say, is going to benefit him directly.
And CNN Money fact-checked all of these and, Ashleigh, they're all true, for the most part, OK. They're all true. So if you're middle class, you really have to take a good, hard look at Hillary's plan. Her plan - and we have a screen for that too - it really taxes the rich. Look, 30 percent rate of income on $1 million - a 30 percent rate if you have income of $1 million or more, a 4 percent surcharge on $5 million of income. All of those taxes are going to go under her plan -
VELSHI: Yes.
ALESCI: What she says will go into fund programs like universal pre-k, right, like 12 -
VELSHI: College tuition.
ALESCI: Yes, like 12 guaranteed weeks of paid family leave.
VELSHI: Yes.
ALESCI: These are the real policies that -
VELSHI: Yes.
ALESCI: Average Americans care about. And when you look at Donald Trump's plan, he's talking about, at the upper end, taxing people at 33 percent.
What he's not telling you there is that actually this is something that people aren't talking about. Wealthy people make most of their income through investments income. What does that mean? Donald Trump is actually going to cap investment income taxation at 20 percent. So he may say the wealthy are paying 33 percent, but if you actually break it down, wealthy are probably going to be paying 20 percent on most of their income because they don't make it like we make it.
[12:20:05]n VELSHI: Right.
ALESCI: We earn it. We go out there and work for it. Not that these guys don't work for it. That's not what I'm suggesting. But they -
VELSHI: It's a different kind - they're treating it differently.
ALESCI: They have investment income. Yes, exactly.
BANFIELD: Right. Right.
But it sounds, when Donald Trump gives his speeches, it sounds like it affects the little guy. it sounds like the middle -
VELSHI: Yes.
BANFIELD: He's talking about child tax credits for the first time. Not that Republican put that in their speeches.
VELSHI: Yes, it's not a Republican thing to talk about. It's unclear. We're having trouble getting the facts about who it actually helps and who it doesn't. Hillary Clinton's people and a lot of child care experts are saying, again, it's sort of designed for higher income, more affluent families. The working poor won't benefit from it as much.
And the other thing that the Trump campaign has been touting right here on CNN is the idea that they make a lot of comparisons to Reagan and the Reagan tax cuts. And on - on August 12th, just a few days ago, Bruce Bartlett, who wrote a lot of the Reagan tax cut plan, really laid out - I really recommend everyone read it. He really laid out why you cannot attach those Bush - those Reagan era tax cuts and compare them to what Donald Trump is talking about.
BANFIELD: Why not?
VELSHI: Because Reagan cut taxes from 70 percent to 50 percent and then to 28.5 percent. We're talking about going from 39.6 percent, which is our highest rate, to 33 percent. And there were a whole lot of other things that were going on in the American economy at the time. So the smarter comparison that voters should be thinking about is to compare America's economic performance now, in let's say over the next nine years - last nine years or 15 years, to how other wealthy countries have done and compare the Reagan era to how other countries did. Comparing today to them is a losing argument.
BANFIELD: I have to leave it there, but there's so much more that I want to ask you about. Maybe tomorrow we can talk about the new polls that have come out showing who the Trump voters are and who they aren't, because they're sort of surprising as well.
ALESCI: Very surprising.
BANFIELD: Cristina Alesci, thank you.
ALESCI: Of course.
BANFIELD: Ali Velshi, as always, thank you.
VELSHI: A pleasure.
BANFIELD: Appreciate it.
We're going to bring you Hillary Clinton's economic speech live from Cleveland just as soon as those mikes get fired up. We've got our live cameras ready to go. CNN's going to bring it to you live. So make sure you stick with us. A live shot from Cleveland, where it rocks.
Coming up next, though, a lot of people not paying so much attention to the election because this is what they're living through, devastation and misery for miles and miles and the death toll is rising, as are the floodwaters. We're going to take you live to Louisiana, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[12:26:47] BANFIELD: Want to take you now to our breaking story in Louisiana. Flood warnings still much in effect for a lot of the southeastern part of that state, and the numbers are simply crushing, 11 deaths and more than 20,000 people and 1,000 pets have been rescued. At least 40,000 homes have been damaged. It's hard to grasp the magnitude of this disaster from, you know, the comfort of your living room inside your very dry home, and that's why Rosa Flores has gone out into the waters to show us exactly what things are like. She's in Denim Springs, Louisiana, right now. And also with us, joining us to give us the scope of the damage is meteorologist Chad Myers.
So, Rosa, first to you. We keep hearing that the floodwaters may be receding, but yet there's still rain. What is the circumstance you're hearing there?
ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, here where I'm at, the situation has gone from search and rescue to recovery. So I'm actually embedded with a team of first responders who are going door to door doing welfare checks.
But I want to show you around because one of the things that make it very difficult for these teams, even though they're working on a grid system, Ashleigh, is that this is rural Louisiana. So you can - you can take a look that - and see that the water is still ponding here. Based on the direction of the vegetation here, you can see that the waters actually flowed in this direction. These first responders were explaining to me that that's why you see this vegetation leaning over.
Now, they've gone to each one of these houses around me. They've knocked on these doors and then they document exactly what they see. One of the things that they were telling me about the flow of the water is that indeed, just like the signs that these vegetations are showing, once they went inside those homes, that was exactly the flow of the water. There was a screen, they said, a very tall screen in that house that you see back there that had mud on one side, nothing on the other. So, again, it gives them information about the flow of the water. They're also gathering information about the welfare of the people here.
Now, I want to show you one last thing before I go, Ashleigh. Take a look at the sky here. Take a look at the sky, the menacing rain that is still coming. Not a good sign for the people in Louisiana.
Ashleigh.
BANFIELD: Oh, yes. You know, and we'd heard about that. And it's one thing to hear it. It's another just to see it looming right over you.
Rosa, stand by, if you will.
I want to bring in Chad Myers to speak exactly to that. The weather systems are still punishing this region. But how bad is it now and then sort of mitigate that by the floodwaters going out. What is this new rain going to do?
CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Well, the rain could still push everything back up a foot or two, but not the 20 feet that the river went up the first time. Here's Louisiana. There's New Orleans and Lake Pontchartrain there. I'm going to take you from Friday into Sunday. And everywhere that you see the white, which I zoomed in a little bit, but that's 20 inches of rain or more. That is the size of New Jersey. Cover up the entire state of New Jersey with 20 inches of water in 48 hours and see what happens. Well, it has to go somewhere. It is going to eventually run off. And to the east and west of Baton Rouge, not only 20 but 25 inches of rainfall there over, yes, just 48 hours. So what was a nice, dry church, all of a sudden is not dry. A car lot, nice and dry, looking good, you're going to need a CarFax.
