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U.S. Swimming Stars Questioned Over Robbery Story; Lochte's Original Statement Was Gun To Forehead; State Department Assistance With Safety And International Travel; Russia Using Iranian Base For Syria Missions; Russia Ready To Support Halt In Aleppo Violence; Trump Versus Clinton; Clinton Meets with Law Enforcement Officials; Trump Campaign Changes. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired August 18, 2016 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: -- International Correspondent Nick Paton Walsh. He is in Rio.

And, Nick, let's start here with these brand new details about what unfolded at a gas station.

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Brianna, this is just breathtaking, to be honest. A police source is saying that when the athletes got to this gas station, that they were drunk. That they tore a sign off one of the walls there, effectively vandalizing it. But then, the staff there and those athletes came to some sort of accommodation where they agreed when the police arrived that charges weren't necessary to be filed against them.

So, a scene there that doesn't necessarily sound like the altercation we've heard from a separate source that may have occurred there. There's been a suggestion in a key Brazilian media outlet here, Globo, which released to CCTV. You may see shortly that, in fact, they urinated in a side alley way there. The CCTV that's being released does purport to back some of that up.

But we're, on a broader scale, here talking about a fairly small ultracation at a gas station here in which the police source says no weapons were actually drawn. But somehow this scuffle or dispute merited, it appears, certainly if you listen to the Brazilian side of story here, an enormous excuse to be made up by Mr. Lochte who referred to how he was actually a victim of an armed robbery perpetrated by men disguised as police.

Now, we have not heard from Mr. Lochte or his attorney. We've asked for comment from him. Mr. Lochte, as of yesterday, was sticking by his original story, although subsequent interviews have suggested discrepancies in that story.

But there is now a fairly consistent picture we're hearing from Brazilian authorities, backed up by the search and seizure warrants released by a court, nonetheless, here yesterday.

A police source also telling us they believe the investigation has shown that there was not actually a robbery there. You'll see this CCTV increasing, I think, calls for a better explanation from Mr. Lochte and the swimmers. And possibility also, too, from U.S. Olympic officials.

Now, the first suggestion is there may have been discrepancies in this when the story emerged early this week. But people are now, of course, asking at what point did the U.S. Olympic Committee know there may have been a problem with this story? When did Brazilian authorities present them with that information. And if they were misled for a lengthy period of time, what reprimand, potentially, might there be against the athletes?

A lot of questions to be answered today. I should point out, again, we have not heard from Mr. Lochte or any of the other three swimmers, Mr. Gunnar Bentz, Jack Conger and James Feigen. We haven't heard their side of the story. And the last time we did, they said -- they stuck to what they originally said.

Now, two of them, Mr. Bentz and Mr. Conger, are, we understand, currently with or may have just left police, giving their first statement to them. But, my god, has this story moved on incredibly quickly. Brazil always keen to, perhaps, undermine the original narrative, that this was armed robbers dressed up as police because it does make it very dangerous, frankly, (INAUDIBLE), given the number of men in uniform there are keeping Olympic visitors safe.

But, at the same time, too, Mr. Lochte and his colleagues' testimony had holes in it. The judge, himself, pointed that out. CCTV showed them coming back an hour after that CCTV you've just seen at the gas station. There were 50 minutes, in fact, actually, looking relatively relaxed but also, in possession. And I say relaxed in the opinion of the judge who used that tape as part of her evidence, but also in possession of a lot of high-value items.

But, really, the questions mount now is to how -- if this Brazilian official version of events is correct, how it was kept under the carpet, it seems, quite so long?

KEILAR: And I wonder what you think, Nick, because Ryan Lochte actually posted an Instagram video today. And he was joking around with someone. This was at the same time that Brazilian police are casting -- you see, he's doing the, sort of, facial distortion thing in a -- in a selfie with someone else. What about the optics of this?

WALSH: Well, I mean, look, he's probably trying to show a lighthearted face about all of this. At the end of the day, if the story at the gas station is true, then they -- you know, they're, sort of, clowning around or, perhaps, being mildly offensive to those who actually worked there. But they're not guilty of any major crime necessarily (ph). And they seem to have smoothed it all over there.

The question you have to ask now is, at what point did Brazilian police know all about this? And did they have a report or did they just dismiss it as being, you know, something that happens in the small hours of a Sunday morning here?

But we've also heard from a Brazilian Olympic official today who, too, has, without going into the details of what they think happened, talked about how, you know, young men, in a city like this, successful, great sportsmen, do something silly. Let's move on. These things happen in life.

So, I think people will try, perhaps, and -- but (INAUDIBLE.) But we have a remarkable international incident here of search and seizure warrants, athletes taken off planes, and all it seems, at this stage, because of the difference in the story the swimmers told, which was a pretty dark embankment, frankly, of a crime scene here in Rio De Janeiro, the host city of the games they were competing in and what Brazilian authorities said actually happened. It has been remarkable to watch it unfold but, also, in retrospect, I wonder how easy this all would have been to avoid?

[13:05:01] KEILAR: Yes. And that story that Ryan Lochte told initially was that someone cocked a gun and put it to his forehead. I mean, just the fearfulness of that image for sure. Nick Paton Walsh in Rio.

WALSH: How could you make that up? Absolutely.

KEILAR: Yes, exactly. And then, it seemed like he changed his story. So, we're trying to get to the bottom of this. And this report really helps. Nick Paton Walsh, thank you so much, in Rio.

I want to get the latest in who knew that we would be going here for information on this. But we want to get latest from the State Department. Their spokesman, John Kirby, joins me now live.

John, are -- thank you so much for talking to us about this. Is the State Department involved in any way here?

JOHN KIRBY, SPOKESMAN, U.S. STATE DEPARTMENT: Well, look, there's not a lot I can actually say about this case. We're certainly monitoring press reports and aware of what we've seen through the media. This is really an issue for the parties to talk about and not for the State Department.

As you know, though, we take the safety and security of American citizens abroad very, very seriously, wherever they are. And that includes at the Olympics. And we have consular officers at -- that are stationed throughout Rio to try to help Americans who are in need. But I'm really not allowed to go in any more detail than that.

KEILAR: Are you in touch with any of the swimmers or their families or coaches?

KIRBY: Well, again, for privacy considerations, Brianna, I'm really not at liberty to discuss this issue in any more detail. I'm sorry about that but there's just a real limit to what we can say.

KEILAR: OK. So, in a situation like this where someone -- and certainly these are people of prominence. But someone maybe gets into issues abroad, is there, sort of, an automatic response from the State Department proactively touching base or do you rely on someone asking for assistance?

KIRBY: So, in general cases, again not speaking to this -- and we have consular offices all over the world and trained officers that are -- that are equipped to handle all kinds of different requests from Americans who are in need overseas. And that is, as I said, in the case in Brazil. It's certainly the case in Rio where have a consulate.

And we have people there that are -- that are equipped and trained to deal with cases like this. Sometimes it is -- based on request for assistance, people come to us and say, hey, I need some help. Maybe I'm in some legal trouble or something like that.

Other times, if it's the result of a natural disaster or something where we obviously know there are potential American citizens in need, you know, we'll reach out the best we can. We don't always have, in every case, great information about everybody that's in a foreign country at any given time.

KEILAR: I do want to ask you about something else while I have you here.

KIRBY: Sure.

KEILAR: As you know, of course, Russia has confirmed it is using an air base in Iran to launch attacks in Syria.

KIRBY: Right.

KEILAR: What's the official U.S. position on this and how does this complicate efforts to work with Russia to halt the fighting in Syria?

KIRBY: Well, our position is the same as it has been, Brianna, and that's that there can't be a military solution to the civil conflict in Syria. And, regrettably, the regime continues to try to find the military solution and they have been supported in that effort at various times and at various levels by the Russian military.

What we've long said is that what we need here is a political solution. Russia is a member of the international Syria support group. What we'd like to see is that the focus be less on trying to find military answers and more on trying to work with us on the proposals that Secretary Kerry has proposed to try to get the cessation of hostilities to be enforceable throughout the country.

That's where the focus needs to be. Not on more military solutions. Not on more bombing in and around Aleppo. That is just doing nothing but putting more civilians in harm's way.

You probably saw that video and the images of that young boy today.

KEILAR: Yes.

KIRBY: It's absolutely heartbreaking. Absolutely heartbreaking and absolutely unnecessary, if we can work towards getting these proposals in place and stopping the violence.

KEILAR: So, you've seen that photo and that's something --

KIRBY: Yes. KEILAR: -- that's gone viral. I mean, it's just --

KIRBY: Absolutely.

KEILAR: -- it just gets you right here. It's so disturbing.

KIRBY: Yes.

KEILAR: I think it's this uni -- sort of a universal image, I think, for so many people. What is your hope? I mean, it's terrible. But it's also something that, sort of, shakes people and reminds them, look, this is happening.

KIRBY: Yes.

KEILAR: This is happening to small children. What is your hope that it affects?

KIRBY: For that little boy -- as I understand, that little boy is about five years old which means that for every day he's been alive, he's known nothing but conflict and war. And there's a whole generation of young people in Syria now who have -- who are dealing with this and will live with this for the rest of their lives.

What we want and what we're trying to get to is a Syria that can inclusive and peaceful and stable and secure. But it can't be so with Bashar Al Assad still in power.

And so, again, Russia is a part of the international Syria support group. Russia signed onto the U.N. Security Council resolution that calls for a political transitional government process here to get to a government that's more responsive to the Syrian people so that Syrian children don't have to live in this kind of violence and this kind of uncertainty.

And not to mention that the -- that little boy and the destruction of Aleppo, but now you have millions and millions of Syrians who have fled the country to try to find safety outside the borders. We want them to be able to come home and have a peaceful life there in Syria.

[13:10:10] And that's what the State Department, what Secretary Kerry, what the president is so focused on. We've got to find this political solution. We've got to work through this diplomatically.

KEILAR: It is just so jarring to see these images as we're showing them to our viewers. We know they're disturbing but they're so important to see, I think. And it really is --

KIRBY: Yes.

KEILAR: -- a lot of times, it is -- once you, sort of, realize what the children are going through, that people really start to take note of the tragedy that has been going on now for far too long. And we certainly --

KIRBY: It is a -- KEILAR: -- appreciate you.

KIRBY: -- It's a very human tragedy. And as a father, myself, it's extraordinarily difficult to look at an image like that. But it is -- as you said, it's a very stark reminder of the stakes --

KEILAR: Yes.

KIRBY: -- there in Syria and why it's so important to end the violence and find a diplomatic solution forward.

KEILAR: Yes, people see their little kids in that little boy right there. State Department spokesman, --

KIRBY: Absolutely.

KEILAR: -- John Kirby. Thank you very much.

KIRBY: You bet.

KEILAR: For more on the legal fallout to all of this, back now to this issue with the American swimmers in Rio, I want to bring now legal analyst and writer for "Sport Illustrated," Michael McCann.

And so, Michael, we appreciate you being with us. This is such a bizarre story. You have a Brazilian police source telling CNN that they believe there was no robbery which is what we thought at first, right? We thought that these guys had been held up at gunpoint for their wallets. So, if that's the case, if this didn't happen, how much trouble could the swimmers be in?

MICHAEL MCCANN, ATTORNEY: Well, Brianna, they could be charged with lying to the police. They could be charged with filing a false police report, obstruction of justice, maybe trespass and possibly vandalism as well. If there was a physical altercation with anyone, there could be assault and battery. There are a litany of potential crimes, although it remains to be seen if they'll be charged with anything. My gut is that this will be resolved diplomatically, rather than through a protracted legal process.

KEILAR: OK. So, you're -- and when we've heard about what the other side of this story is, that there was a urination on the side of the gas station, some people have said, oh, that sounds silly. I mean, it sounds also stupid that they would do that. But the stupid thing would be, if true that they fabricated this story, that's really the issue here. It's, sort of, the -- I guess the cover-up of whatever it was that happened. They wouldn't face anything for that, for giving false statements?

MCCANN: It could. And it's -- look, it's a crime in Brazil. It's a crime in the United States. It's a crime anywhere to give false statements to the police. For good reason because you could direct the police on a search and have them arrest the wrong person, someone who's innocent. You could direct the police on a search that wastes their time, their energy, where they could be stopping crime and preventing other crime. So, it is a big deal. I think the question is, sort of, how will the State Department -- and we heard a spokesman earlier on the show talk about -- not really answering how this will play out. But the State Department here is a crucial actor to try to prevent charges from being filed. Try to create an amicable solution, maybe an apology, for instance, a public apology would work. Something along those lines.

KEILAR: OK. And so, you mentioned what John Kirby was saying which was that he really can't say anything specifically about this. But what is your expectation about -- it sounds like you think it would be -- the State Department is pretty involved in trying to broker something here.

MCCANN: Yes, I would imagine the State Department's very involved, at this point. They are the key actors here. They can help the swimmers get legal counsel, local legal counsel, who really know the process. And also, reach out to Brazilian authorities and try to say, look, maybe they did something stupid. Maybe they lied about it. It's -- it is a big deal and not try to discount it. But, at the same time, try to say, the Olympics were very successful. Let's try to resolve this in a way that doesn't have a protracted international controversy. We'll see what happens though.

KEILAR: One of the guys involved here, of course Ryan Lochte, one of the best swimmers in the world. What kind of mark does that leave -- if this does move towards an apology, if it is true that they fabricated their stories, what kind of mark did that leave on his Olympic performance and also that of these other guys?

MCCANN: Well, I think it really would be a sad ending to what has been an amazing Olympics for the United States, for Lochte and others to possibly be involved in a cover-up or lying to the police. Again, let's see what happens. Let's -- I don't want to say they did something wrong until we know that for sure. But if it turns out that they, in fact, were untruthful, it would be embarrassing to Lochte, but also really to what has been a great Olympics for the United States, that this would maybe over shadow.

So, it could hurt his endorsement income, for instance. And he's someone who has been on television. It could hurt his ability to be on T.V. in the future, I imagine. But, on the other hand, you know, he's someone who, I think, has a reputation for being -- you know, I don't want to say controversial. But in the news, he might be able to navigate through this. But it's certainly not a good thing.

KEILAR: Yes, he's definitely idiosyncratic. We will definitely say that about Ryan Lochte. He has a reputation for that.

Thank you so much. Michael McCann with "Sport Illustrated." He's a legal analyst there. We appreciate it.

[13:15:03] MCCANN: Thanks, Brianna.

KEILAR: Now, still ahead, we will dig into political headlines, like Hillary Clinton versus Donald Trump on law and order and the effect that the Trump campaign shakeup could have on this race.

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KEILAR: Law and order is front and center in the presidential race today and a new order is taking shape in the Trump campaign. All of this happening less than 82 days and counting until Election Day. Right now, Hillary Clinton is meeting with a group of high-profile law enforcement officials. Earlier this week, Donald Trump accused Clinton of being against police. Just moments ago, Clinton pledged her support for law enforcement.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: And I want to support them, our police officers, with the resources they need to do their jobs, to do them effectively, to learn from their efforts, and to apply those lessons across our nation. I believe supporting our police officers and improving policing go hand in hand. Everyone is safer when there is respect for the law and when everyone is respected by the law.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[13:20:01] KEILAR: Well, Donald Trump will hold a rally later today in battleground North Carolina, a day after a major reshuffling of his top campaign staff.

And for more on both of these stories, I want to bring in CNN's Chris Frates in Washington and Jessica Schneider in New York.

Chris, this is interesting because it follows Hillary Clinton's meeting with law enforcement. It follows what she did or her campaign and the DNC did at the convention, which was talk a lot about law enforcement. She clearly doesn't want to concede this ground to Donald Trump. Is that what today is about?

CHRIS FRATES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's a lot about what today is about, Brianna. And an aide telling us that this meeting is really focusing on the challenges and the opportunities that police face all across this country. And, you know, Clinton's bringing some chiefs of police from some of the biggest cities in the country. We have L.A., we have Philadelphia, we have Seattle, and that's just to name a few. But also in attendance right now is New York City Police Commissioner Bill Bratton, who has been very critical of Donald Trump.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAM BRATTON, NEW YORK CITY POLICE COMMISSIONER: Mr. Trump scares me. He scares the hell out of me, to be quite frank with you. That's a personal opinion. And I just don't get it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why does he scare you as a possible president?

BRATTON: The lack of depth on issues. That - the shoot from the hip. It - I've just watched this whole campaign and I just shake my head.

(END VIDEO CLIP) FRATES: Now, the NYPD says Clinton requested the meeting and that Bratton will discuss the challenges of policing. In a statement the NYPD says, "as one of the most experienced leaders in American policing, Commissioner Bratton has a unique perspective into the profession and what we can do to reduce fear, build the trust with the community, improve training and better equip officers, having led police departments in Boston, Los Angeles and twice in New York."

And it's worth pointing out here that Trump has not asked to meet with Bratton, but the commissioner would meet with the Republican nominee if he was asked. And, of course, this is all coming on the heels of the shooting of a black man in Milwaukee this weekend and all those ensuing protests. And Clinton had said that the country has urgent work to do to rebuild trust between police and communities. I think that everyone should have respect for and be respected by the law.

Now, meanwhile, Trump has accused Clinton of being, quote, "against the police," saying she'd rather protect the offender than the victim. But by meeting with some of these very important police chiefs right now, Brianna, we can see Clinton really trying to send a message that she supports the police while also acknowledging there's a real - really a lot of work to do here, Brianna.

KEILAR: And, Jessica, you have Donald Trump obviously hitting Hillary Clinton on this, but he has so much going on because he, obviously, has a new campaign manager. He has a new campaign CEO. And his new campaign manager is saying that this strategy moving forward is really to sharpen the message, let Trump be himself. Here's what she said, what Kellyanne Conway said on "New Day."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KELLYANNE CONWAY, TRUMP CAMPAIGN MANAGER: We're going to make sure Donald Trump is comfortable about being in his own skin, that he doesn't lose that authenticity that you simply can't buy and a pollster can't give you. Voters know if you're comfortable in your own skin. And let him be him in this sense. If he wants to deliver a speech, if he wants to go to a rally, if he wants to connect with a crowd in a way that's very spontaneous, that's wonderful, and that's how he got here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Jessica, everyone wants to know, what is this going to look like moving forward to November. What more are you learning?

JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, you know, Kellyanne Conway probably put it best, and she really put it this way. It's a two-part strategy that will begin really unfolding tonight. It will combine that pointed policy with a mix of Donald Trump's signature style and flare that we've seen. In fact, a campaign aide on the ground in Charlotte, North Carolina, where that rally will be tonight, tells us that Donald Trump tonight will be talking about two issues we've become familiar with him speaking on, the defeat of radical Islamic terror, as well as law and order. And, in fact, our teams on the ground there have seen Teleprompters be set up - or are seeing the Teleprompters set up now. So it won't be the demise probably of Teleprompter Trump.

So Kellyanne Conway really putting it this way, they want Trump to stay true to who he is, stay true to his style, but also dig in on the issues. She said in the next two weeks Donald Trump will have policy speeches on both education and immigration. And she says that they don't want to lose Donald Trump's authenticity. She put it this way. She said that it's an authenticity money can't buy and that pollsters certainly can't teach. So they want Donald Trump to stick with it.

KEILAR: But the expectation is that this is going to be pretty hard hitting, and everyone's looking at this addition of Steve Bannon from the right wing Breitbart website to the campaign staff as the CEO. They're really taking that as an indicator of where the tone is going.

SCHNEIDER: Yes, you know, if it's any indication, Steve Bannon has been brash. He may continue to be brash. We've seen it as him as executive chairman of Breitbart News. You know, he has very brash headlines, in fact. Anything from alleging Hillary Clinton has health issues, you know, to this one headline that said, "there's no hiring bias against women in tech, they just suck at interviewing."

[13:25:18] So, obviously, Trump has had a problem gelling with women. Could Bannon's tough time carry over to continue having a tough time gelling with women and other minority groups? But, you know, Kellyanne Conway said, look, she said, I'm a woman. The Trump campaign has hired me as the Trump campaign manager. I'm there. I'm a woman. And she also said that steve Bannon is a brilliant tactician. She also said this as well, she said, "he is unapologetically, unflinchingly unafraid of Hillary and Bill Clinton." And she said that that is exactly what the Trump team needs to defeat what she calls the Clinton machine.

KEILAR: All right, Jessica Schneider, Chris Frates, thanks to both of you. Chris in Washington, Jessica in New York for us.

Ahead, more on the state of these campaigns and how some of the more crucial battlegrounds are playing out. Can the Trump camp shake up, turn these numbers around? Our panel will be with us next on that.

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