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Trump Insists No Flip-Flopping on Immigration; Powell: Clinton Team Trying To "Pin It On Me"; Trump Slams Clinton: "She Lied About Powell". Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired August 22, 2016 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:00] CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Have a great day. NEWSROOM starts now.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: Happening new in the NEWSROOM, does Donald Trump still want to deport millions?

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Will that plan include a deportation force?

KELLYANNE CONWAY, TRUMP CAMPAIGN MANAGER: To be determined.

COSTELLO: TBD? That's not what he's been saying.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: They will go out, they will come back, they have to come back legally.

COSTELLO: Plus, Mike Pence one-on-one.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Are you comfortable with his messaging?

GOV. MIKE PENCE (R), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm comfortable with the team Donald Trump is building around him.

COSTELLO: Trump's veep pick talks staff shakeup, sharing a ticket and courting minority voters.

PENCE: We can do better for every American.

COSTELLO: Also, Secretary of State versus Secretary of State. Did Colin Powell tell Hillary Clinton to use private e-mails? Depends on who you ask.

Let's talk. Live in the NEWSROOM.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: And good morning, I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me.

This morning, Donald Trump is dealing with yet another set of questions about his campaign, but this time, they ain't about presidential pivots or temperament, instead, those questions are about policy. Specifically Trump's stance on immigration. After a weekend meeting with a council of Hispanic advisers led some to think Trump may be softening his positions. But Trump's newly installed campaign manager and now Trump himself says not so fast.

CNN's Sunlen Serfaty has more for you. Good morning.

SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Carol. Well, this would potentially be a big reversal for Donald Trump and this does has already put Trump on the defensive over exactly what his policy on immigration really is.

Just this morning, he insisted in an interview that no, he believes his stance on immigration is not changing. Here is what he said a few minutes ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We're dealing with people, we have to be very firm. We have to be very, very strong when people come in illegally. We have a lot of people that want to come in through the legal process. It's not fair for them. And we're working with a lot of people in the Hispanic community to try and come up with an answer.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: So you're not flip-flopping?

TRUMP: No, I'm not flip-flopping. We want to come up with a really fair but firm answer. It has to be firm. We want to come up with something fair.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SERFATY: So Trump there, really pushing back on all this. You know, his hardlined stance on immigration, it is one of the defining core issues of his campaign. But there are some indications that that position could be changing.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SERFATY (voice-over): Donald Trump's campaign signaling a possible softening of his controversial position on the forced deportation of 11 million undocumented immigrants.

TRUMP: They will go out. They will come back. Some will come back, the best, through a process. They have to come back legally.

SERFATY: Trump's hardlined stance a signature issue of his campaign since the beginning. Now his new campaign manager indicating that policy is not set in stone.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Let me play something from what Mr. Trump has said previously. Listen to what he said back in November.

TRUMP: We're going to have a deportation force and you're going to do it humanely.

MIKA BRZEZINSKI, MSNBC HOST, "MORNING JOE": What, are they going to be ripped out of their homes?

TRUMP: Can I tell you?

BRZEZINSKI: How?

TRUMP: They're going back where they came. If they came from a certain country they're going to be brought back to that country. That's the way it's supposed to be.

BASH: Will that plan include a deportation force, the kind that he just -- you just heard in that sound bite and that he talked about during the Republican primaries?

CONWAY: To be determined.

SERFATY: Key Trump surrogate Senator Jeff Sessions confirming that Trump is wrestling with the issue after a meeting with Hispanic advisers on Saturday ahead of a big policy speech later this week.

SEN. JEFF SESSIONS (R), ALABAMA: He listened to a lot of people. I don't think he made any commitments. He is thinking that through. I think that's the right thing.

SERFATY: This potential shift coming as Trump attempts to broaden his appeal among African-American voters.

TRUMP: I've asked the African-American community to honor me with their vote. You are living in poverty, your schools are no good, you have no jobs, 58 percent of your youth is unemployed. What the hell do you have to lose?

SERFATY: Polls show his campaign way behind with his key voting bloc, following a string of controversial comments about minorities.

TRUMP: They're bringing drugs, they're bringing crime, they are rapists. Look at my African-American over here. This is judge is of Mexican heritage. I'm building a wall, OK, I'm building a wall.

SERFATY: Trump's now more muted, scripted style reserved for policy, not for his opponent Hillary Clinton.

TRUMP: She will never be able to fix the ISIS problem that her policies created. For one thing, she doesn't have the strength or the stamina.

SERFATY: All this, as Trump and his surrogates continue to race unsubstantiated questions about Hillary Clinton's health.

RUDY GIULIANI (R), FORMER NEW YORK CITY MAYOR: Go online and put down "Hillary Clinton illness" and take a look at the videos for yourself.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SERFATY: And again, those claims about Clinton's health are unsubstantiated. The Clinton campaign says she is in excellent health and they call questions otherwise, quote, "deranged conspiracy theories" -- Carol.

[09:05:02] COSTELLO: All right. Sunlen Serfaty, reporting live for us this morning.

So will Mr. Trump build a wall, have Mexico pay for it, and deport 11 million undocumented immigrants or not? More importantly for him, will a flip-flop make Hispanics more open to Trump?

Let's talk about this. Jesus Marquez is a member of the National Hispanic Advisory Council for Mr. Trump and a Las Vegas radio commentator, and Ana Navarro is a Republican and CNN political commentator. Welcome to both of you.

ANA NAVARRO, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Thanks, Carol.

JOSE MARQUEZ, MEMBER, NATIONAL HISPANIC ADVISORY COUNCIL FOR TRUMP: Thank you.

COSTELLO: Nice to have you here. Jesus, you were in that meeting with Mr. Trump on Saturday. So is Mr. Trump going to deport undocumented immigrants or not?

MARQUEZ: Well, we talked about different issues and obviously immigration was one of those issues that we talked about. It was a private meeting, but I can tell you that Mr. Trump is now open for suggestions from Latinos. That's why he opened his doors to invite us.

COSTELLO: So just along those lines and I just want to expand on that, Jesus. So does he want ideas from this Hispanic council on how to treat these undocumented immigrants and might that mean that he is no longer thinking about this deportation team deporting all of them?

MARQUEZ: Well, absolutely. He wants ideas and obviously that's why he invited us. One thing they did, you know, notice and it made me very comfortable is that he is observing them, you know, the situation. He's taking notes about what we have to say. And I'm sure the campaign will consider our advice and they will definitely work on policy, you know. We can't speak for the campaign. We're not part of the campaign, but definitely, we talked about different issues that concern our communities, the Latino communities.

COSTELLO: So, Ana, you and a lot of other Hispanics and Latinos are opposed to Mr. Trump. A recent FOX poll show -- this was a poll taken just about three days ago or released three days ago, it shows Trump trailing Clinton with Hispanics by 46 points. So does what Jesus is saying make you more open to Mr. Trump?

NAVARRO: No. Listen. As far as I'm concerned he burned those bridges a long, long time ago. You don't get to start over two and a half months before an election. You just don't get to erase the things that you have said for over a year. He has called Mexicans rapists, has said that they bring crime. He hasn't given one interview to Univision or Telemundo, in fact he kicked Jorge Ramos and Jose Diaz-Ballart and (INAUDIBLE) both those networks out of events. He has focused, laser focused, really based his campaign on attacking

Hispanics, attacking immigrants like pinatas. I don't hear him ever talk about the positive stories about immigration. He has people like Joe Arpaio standing in front of a wall during the Republican convention and goes on to give one of the longest speeches, nomination acceptance speeches in history where he focuses on all the bad things that some immigrants that have come here have done, not any of the positive stuff.

Now I will tell you, though, Carol, I think it's very important to understand that Latinos are not one homogenous group. And immigration is not the issue that defines Latinos and Latino support. And you know, I think, look, if Mr. Marquez is doing what that group did, they're trying to meet with him and maybe expand his horizons so that he is not so ignorant about Hispanics, great for them. I respect their choice.

Now I will tell you, I will stand with the other 85 percent of Latinos for whom Trump is just not an acceptable option. You don't get to beat us like pinatas for a year and then come back at the last minute and try to make nice.

(CROSSTALK)

COSTELLO: Well, Jesus -- Jesus, along the lines that Ana is talking about that this immigration issue is not --

MARQUEZ: If you allow me to answer a little bit there.

COSTELLO: OK. Go ahead.

MARQUEZ: You know, to respond. Well, you know, first of all, it's not 85 percent of Latinos that are opposing Donald Trump. You know, the poll yesterday that shows that Donald Trump is down in the polls with the Latinos, but you still see about --

COSTELLO: But Clinton leads Latinos by 46 points. That's a lot.

MARQUEZ: But you have also 20 percent to 25 percent of Latinos undecided, and at this -- if you look at the polls in 2012, back then with Romney, at this point in the campaign, was probably about the same as Donald Trump. This likable -- dislikability of Hillary Clinton is very high, too, as well.

Now if you want to talk about Latinos being offended, well, yes, you know, the rhetoric, we talked about that. We talked about certain issues, how he can say certain things, and he explained that he didn't mean some of the things that the way the media is --

COSTELLO: OK. Wait one minute. He said -- wait, wait, I want to get into that. He said he didn't mean some of the things he said about Hispanics? Is that what you're saying? And if you are, what were those things?

[09:10:02] MARQUEZ: Well, for example, you know, when he -- when we talked about rapists and murderers, you know, he specifically -- you know, he didn't talk in general, and if that's the way it came out, you know, he -- you know, he explained himself. That's not what he meant. Now --

COSTELLO: What did he mean? What did he mean?

MARQUEZ: Well, there's -- unfortunately, you know, we have to secure our borders because there is also among the many good people that come across, there are also some people that are not for any good, and that's one of the things that we also have to decide --

COSTELLO: Did he apologize for generalizing?

MARQUEZ: Well, I'm not going say he apologized. We worked more on, you know, solutions to the problem. You know, we all agree that we have to secure the border. And the details of the meeting, I cannot explain to you or talk about, but one thing I know is that he is opening the doors. He is open to suggestions. And that's something different.

Now you may say, well, it's too late. No. You know, we have 80-plus days for the election. I believe that Mrs. Clinton's policies have been more offensive for the Latinos. If you look at Latino neighborhoods, communities, cities, and states where Democrats have governed for decades you will see the poverty in those towns and cities and communities. That what offends me more than what Donald Trump has said.

COSTELLO: I hear you on that. And Ana, I'll address this to you. In that same FOX News poll, it also shows Hispanics overwhelmingly support President Obama and his policies. So how does Jesus -- how do we marry that with what Jesus just said?

MARQUEZ: If you think about it, Mr. Obama has been the president that has deported more people -- more Latinos in the last decades, and on top of that, if you look at his policies, it made Latinos, you know, staggering poverty, you know, basically right now, Latinos are not better off than seven, eight years ago. And that is a problem that if we can articulate that to the public, to the Latino community, I believe we can get our numbers up.

COSTELLO: Would that do it, Ana?

NAVARRO: Look, Carol, the healthiest thing for the Hispanic community, for the African-American community, for any American, frankly, is if we would have a very competitive process between two strong candidates, two strong parties. That people are -- we have candidates that are courting our vote, that are earning our support.

What we have had for the past year is a Donald Trump who has done nothing but burn bridges. But offend Hispanics, attack a judge who was born in America for the simple fact that he is of Mexican heritage. Questioned his ability to do his job.

You know, yesterday, I read the story about a couple who went into a restaurant in Virginia, and they wrote on the receipt of their waiter, we don't tip anybody who is not a U.S. citizen. Turns out the waitress was a U.S. citizen, of Hispanic heritage. Yes. But that's the kind of discrimination, of bigotry, of division that Donald Trump has stoked and promoted. He hasn't caused it. He didn't invent racism. But he has certainly embraced it. He has certainly made it worst for the last year. No, he does not get to reinvent himself.

MARQUEZ: That is absolutely not true.

COSTELLO: All right.

NAVARRO: Listen, the only person I know who can reinvent themselves successfully after the age of 50 is Madonna. And Donald Trump is no Madonna.

MARQUEZ: Oh, you know, you cannot --

(CROSSTALK)

COSTELLO: And with that, I've got to leave it there, guys. I have to leave it --

MARQUEZ: You cannot pin -- you know, very quickly. You cannot pin what you saw or experienced in terms of racist with this waiter with Donald Trump. That is ridiculous.

NAVARRO: Oh, I can very much look into the camera and say I believe Donald Trump is a racist. You don't get to make textbook racist remarks for a year and not be a racist. You don't get to make textbook sexist remarks for a year and not be a misogynist. To me he is disgusting human being. I'm glad you guys are having an open conversation with him. I hope he takes your advice. I think --

(CROSSTALK)

MARQUEZ: I couldn't express myself with nobody like that, but you know, that's your opinion. I respect it.

NAVARRO: Well, sure, I respect your opinion, I'm --

COSTELLO: All right. I have to leave it there. Ana Navarro, Jesus Marquez, thanks to both of you. I do appreciate it.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, Colin Powell, did he just throw Hillary Clinton under the bus? We'll talk about that, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Former secretary of state, Colin Powell, is speaking publicly for the very first time about Hillary Clinton's use of a personal e-mail server and he is not happy. According to the "New York Times," Clinton told the FBI that Powell urged her to use private e-mail while in office.

But Powell is now hitting back, telling "People Magazine," that, quote, "Her people have been trying to pin it on me. The truth is she was using the private e-mail server for a year before I sent her a memo telling her what I did." When asked why Clinton's team was attempting to blame him, Colin Powell's response was, this, quote, "Why do you think? It doesn't bother me. But it's OK, I'm free."

CNN has reached out to the Clinton campaign as well as representatives for Colin Powell, but we have not received a response as of yet.

Joining me now to talk about this is Joe Conason. He is the author of "Man of the World, The Further Endeavors of Bill Clinton" and he knows all about this dinner. Joe, thank you so much for joining me this morning.

JOE CONASON, JOURNALIST/AUTHOR: Thank you.

COSTELLO: So tell us about this dinner where supposedly Colin Powell and Mrs. Clinton talked about an e-mail server.

CONASON: So in 2009, and it is true, after she became secretary of state, Madelyn Albright held a dinner party for Hillary Clinton in her home in Washington where she invited former secretaries of state to celebrate her appointment.

And among them was Colin Powell. At that dinner, former Secretary Albright asked the others there to give Hillary Clinton one piece of advice, and Colin Powell's advice was to use her e-mail account.

[09:20:13]He said, and I have an e-mail from his principal assistant, Margaret Sufrino (ph) confirming this. He told her, and I quote, "He shared his use of his e-mail account with Secretary Clinton, and told her how useful and transformative it was for the department."

I received this message from Margaret Sufrino (ph) last June when I was checking this story for my book, and she replied, and she make sure I understood the date of the party because she checked his calendar for it.

COSTELLO: So what is --

CONASON: I have -- so I don't --

COSTELLO: What is Colin Powell talking about then?

CONASON: I'm perplexed that he is now saying this didn't happen. I understood him to say he didn't remember it, and you know, Ms. Sufrino told me he did not remember every detail of the dinner, but he remembered sharing his use of his e-mail account with Secretary Clinton and how useful and transformative it was for the department.

So I think that's pretty straightforward. You know, I've written a piece about this that will be on "Newsweek" site today, responding to what he has said about this since the time --

COSTELLO: Is it possible that Mr. Powell used a private e-mail server in his home for personal business, and he totally separated from his State Department business, in a way that Mrs. Clinton perhaps did not? Could that be what Mr. Powell was talking about? CONASON: That's not what the inspector general's report says. Used his AOL account, Carol, for State Department business as well as his personal business, and it is very clear that's what he did.

And by the way, unlike Secretary Clinton, he did not preserve any of his e-mails under the -- as he was supposed to do under the Federal Records Act. She turned over, as you know, 55,000 pages of e-mails that she had kept.

He did not preserve any of them. And which, you know, the inspector general said was a violation of his responsibilities under the Federal Records Act. We don't know what any of his e-mails said, or very few.

COSTELLO: So this --

CONASON: -- personal account for State Department business. There is no question about that. He has admitted that. I don't think anybody is blaming him. Secretary Clinton has known about this conversation for seven years.

To my knowledge, she has never spoken about it publicly. The only time that she has talked about it as far as I know is to the FBI in a conversation that I think she expected to be confidential.

So you know, the "Times" found out about it and they published that story the other day. But I don't think she was trying to use that or my book to put this story out.

If Secretary Clinton, Carol, had wanted to use this conversation with General Powell to somehow pin it on him as he says, why wouldn't she have gone straight to the "New York Times" or "The Washington Post" or CNN to tell them about this years ago when this first came out.

COSTELLO: Well, she has mentioned it. It is not like she has never talked about it.

CONASON: She has mentioned -- no, no, she has never mentioned her conversation with him. She's mentioned the fact that he used a personal e-mail because that was known. He wrote about it in his own book that he had used personal e-mail. But she has never mentioned her conversation with him publicly that I know of.

COSTELLO: And this e-mail from his assistant, will that be in your "Newsweek" article online today?

CONASON: It is quoted in the article online today, that's correct.

COSTELLO: Joe Conason, I can't wait to read it. Thanks so much for joining me this morning. I do appreciate it. Of course, Mr. Trump wasted no time. He is lashing out on this issue and what Colin Powell had to say. He just did that on "Fox and Friends" last hour.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE (via telephone): She lied about the e-mails. She lied about Colin Powell, I saw that, he was not happy, and the whole thing is a scam with them. Everything is a scam like grifters.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: OK, so let's talk about this. With me now is Ron Bonjean, former spokesman for Senate Majority Leader Trent Lott, CNN commentator and Hillary Clinton supporter, Bakari Sellers, and CNN political commentator and former Reagan White House political director, Jeffrey Lord. Welcome to all of you. Bakari, what do you make of this?

BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I make of it, here we go again with these e-mails. I think that one of the major problems that I have with this discussion is the fact that these confidential conversations that 302s, investigator notes from the FBI are now being leaked to the "New York Times" piece meal.

When they are leaked piece meal, you have incidents like this where people can get parts and parcels of stories and be able to spin them one way or another. There was a conversation that's happened at a dinner party. We don't know much about that party.

[09:25:02]But here we go down this rabbit hole of e-mails without finding enough much of the truth because we don't know the whole story.

COSTELLO: But it is a confusing story, but you just heard Joe, right. He was talking about how he has this e-mail detailing this dinner, where Colin Powell suggested supposedly that Hillary Clinton use a private e-mail server, but Colin Powell then comes out in a "People Magazine" event and is quoted as saying, like, I never advised her on that. What do you make of that part?

SELLERS: Listen, Carol, I am not going to sit here and try to condemn or attack General Colin Powell. I mean, there are a lot of things that Hillary Clinton supporters will do and can do, but one of the things I advise them not to do is attack Colin Powell.

I think without understanding the full scope of this, and I just heard, his name is Joe, who wrote the book, I plan on reading that "Newsweek" article, because we only had a part of this information, it makes it very difficult to digest and be able to fully understand what happened.

COSTELLO: Jeffrey, your thoughts?

JEFFREY LORD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, you know, to pick up on what Bakari is saying, as a conservative, I disagree with General Powell on a number of things, his endorsement of President Obama. That kind of thing.

But let it never be said. Colin Powell is a man of integrity. Absolute, utter integrity. So I have absolutely no reason to think that he is, you know, certainly lying or anything of that nature.

And I think that one of the things, the comments you just played from Donald Trump, indicate, this goes exactly to the reverse sort of problem that Hillary Clinton has.

She is repeatedly on all kinds of issues accused of not -- being accused of not telling the truth. This is when she was first lady. If you remember that famous "New York Times" columnist, William Sapphire wrote a column in 1995 or '96 in which he called her a congenital liar.

Here we are again with the same kind of problem. That's the problem and in terms you've presidential campaign issue, that's a big one.

COSTELLO: Well, Ron, I'm just struggling to understand why Colin Powell brought this up now because there is conflicting information. I don't know what the truth is at this moment. I too many going to read this "Newsweek" article and I'm intrigued to see this e-mail from Colin Powell's assistant because I'd like to know exactly what it says. But what do you make of Colin Powell saying this to "People Magazine?" Why do you think, it doesn't bother me. It's OK, I'm free.

RON BONJEAN, FORMER SPOKESMAN FOR SENATE MAJORITY LEADER TRENT LOTT: You know, what he is doing is undermining Hillary Clinton's assertions that, you know, she has been -- that she has been totally transparent with the process of her e-mails. Look, the fact of the matter is, Hillary Clinton has, you know, is going after her henchmen are now going after Colin Powell and he is re-enforcing that politically by saying things like this.

I think by going after, by having this narrative at the beginning of the week of an African-American general and asserting that she has political henchmen going after him, you know, it falls right into Donald Trump's narrative.

When he is going after the African-American voter right now, I don't think it is helpful to her campaign. I think that, you know, of course, you know, Democratic strategists are going to say here we go again.

But here we go again, I'm wondering whether or not Hillary Clinton is trustworthy, credible and has political henchmen out there trying to throw generals under the bus.

COSTELLO: Bakari, your thoughts.

SELLERS: You know, I mean, that's absurd. You began to spin yourself into a complete pretzel when you said all of a sudden she is having henchmen attack a black general. The fact is --

BONJEAN: Why would he say that then? That doesn't make any sense. Why would a general say that about her?

SELLERS: Because if she wanted to attack Colin Powell, sir, she would have done it in public, she would have taken this conversation public prior to this. She would have laid the foot of the blame at his feet, which she did not.

She actually had this conversation when bringing up these e-mails and in the genesis of using private e-mail servers and with the FBI. This was not a public conversation. What happened was, we knew what was going to happen, the Republican Congress leaked it to the "New York Times." There you have it. So you can't make this false --

BONJEAN: So you're refuting a general, a very respected general secretary of state's comments that Hillary Clinton is throwing him under the bus?

SELLERS: Yes, I mean, because Hillary Clinton did not state this in public. That's what I'm saying. This a conversation --

BONJEAN: It sounds like you're twisting yourself into a pretzel.

COSTELLO: That is true, Ron. Hillary Clinton said this to FBI investigators, and she did not say such a thing publicly. That is true.

LORD: Carol, you know, one of the problems here that Hillary Clinton is going to have throughout the remaining two months plus of this campaign is that she has got so much going on with these e-mails in term of they are possibly being leaked, Wikileaks, whether it's Judicial Watch, whatever, or leaks from Congress, this is going to be a steady drip, drip, drip, all the way through the fall election and it's going to remind people of exactly what her problem is when it comes to credibility.

COSTELLO: So Bakari, what it expected that Congress demanded those notes from the FBI then --