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ISIS Recruiting Children; Zika Fears; Trump Flip-Flopping on Immigration?. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired August 22, 2016 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[15:00:58]

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Hi there. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thank you so much for being with me.

We begin the second hour with what currently stands between Donald Trump and the White House, minority voters. Donald Trump pushing back on reports that he may be softening his stance on immigration, a signature plank in his rise to secure that nomination among Republicans.

Questions about Trump's policies were raised after this weekend's meeting with Hispanic advisers to his campaign where Trump reportedly said he wanted a "humane and efficient way" to deal with undocumented immigrants, leaving a lot of folks to wonder if perhaps he is backing down, flip-flopping, evolving, whatever you want to call it, from those initial aggressive ambitions.

Just a reminder to all of us, up until now, Trump has always said the 11 million undocumented immigrants in this country need to go by force if necessary.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You're going to have a deportation force, and you're going to do it humanely.

QUESTION: Are they going to be ripped out of their homes? How?

TRUMP: They're going back where they came. If they came from a certain country, they are going to be brought back to that country.

QUESTION: You're rounding them all up?

TRUMP: We're rounding them up in a very humane way and a very nice way. And they're going to be happy because they want to be legalized.

They will go out. They will come back. Some will come back, the best, through a process. They have to come back legally.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So that was the past. Now we have Kellyanne Conway, who is Mr. Trump's new campaign manager, admitting here on CNN the release of a specific immigration plan has gone from as soon as possible to, to be determined, TBD.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KELLYANNE CONWAY, TRUMP CAMPAIGN MANAGER: As the weeks unfold, as the weeks unfold, he will lay out the specifics of that plan that he would implement as president of the United States.

DANA BASH, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Will that plan include a deportation force, the kind that he just -- you just heard in that sound bite and that he talked about during the Republican primaries?

CONWAY: To be determined.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: To be determined, thus the conversation I'm about to have with David Chalian, our political director.

I know you will not know the answer when I say, what does that actually mean?

But what are we hearing from Trump campaign sources? What do you think Kellyanne meant by that?

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Well, listen, I think no staffer wants to get ahead of the principal here. We know that Donald Trump on Thursday will give a big immigration policy speech.

And so I think that was her creating the space for him to continue to form that policy until he unveils it on Thursday. But you heard Donald Trump this morning. He said, I'm not a flip-flopper and I'm not changing course here.

His son Eric Trump was saying something similar, but then they keep throwing in this humane, we will do it fairly. And what that means is what we're waiting to find out, Brooke. We don't have the policy answers to that yet.

BALDWIN: OK. He talks Thursday. We will be listening for that.

Meantime, he's in Ohio today, battleground state of Ohio. He's speaking this evening in Akron. We have new poll numbers where he's down just by -- he's just by four points in this Monmouth University poll released a short time ago. Did you expect him tonight in Akron to talk immigration, again reach out to, as he has been recently, African-American voters, or what else are you listening for?

CHALIAN: I mean, last week, when Kellyanne Conway came on board with the campaign, she was on "NEW DAY" and she said this week was going to be immigration week for the campaign. I think we saw that kick off on Saturday actually when he met with their hand-selected Hispanic supporters of the campaign together in a room and continuing through leading up to Thursday's unveil.

So I would expect to hear some of that. And yes, I think we have now seen basically a week's worth of Trump speeches where border security, where the fight against ISIS and where raising questions about Hillary Clinton have been central, as well as you say some of this outreach, not always going according to plan for Donald Trump.

[15:05:00]

He sometimes comes in for some criticism about the way he does this, but trying to show an attempt, I should say, to try and make himself available and open to a wider swathe of voters than just the Republican primary voters that got him here.

BALDWIN: David Chalian, thank you.

On all of this, let me bring in my panel, Angela Rye, CNN political commentator, former executive director Congressional Black Caucus, Marilinda Garcia, national spokesperson for the Libre Initiative and former Republican New Hampshire state representative, and Scottie Hughes, CNN political commentator and Trump supporter.

Welcome to all of you.

Scottie, let me just start with you as a Trump supporter springboarding off of David's point. Listen, Donald Trump did so extraordinarily well and became the party's nominee because of phrases like build a wall and deportation force. I don't want you to get ahead of Trump on Thursday, but do you think he will be softening his stance on immigration?

SCOTTIE NELL HUGHES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I don't think he will be softening his stance, Brooke.

I think he's just going to once again encourage enforcing the law that we have. We already have a version a deportation force in our law. It's called ICE. Last year, they deported almost half-a-million people from the United States. And all Mr. Trump is doing is saying he's going to want to continue to strengthen them, support these officials, while at the same time going through our immigration system that I think we can all agree is broken right now and finding a better, more mainstream way, so that we know who's exactly coming into this country.

BALDWIN: Do you get a sense, though, because when we hear over the weekend when he sat on Saturday with a number of Hispanics, one attendee at this roundtable told BuzzFeed they want to put together a task force very much like the Ronald Reagan days with the exception of amnesty.

Someone else told Univision their interpretation of Trump's comments: "I really like that Trump acknowledged that there is a big problem with the 11 million undocumented people who are here and that deporting them is neither possible nor humane."

Can you understand, Scottie, why people today are confused?

HUGHES: Oh, absolutely. And once again it's interpretation, hence why I think Donald Trump's policy speeches these past three weeks have been exceptional at trying to explain what he wants to do in these areas, something that we're not seeing from Hillary Clinton.

Thursday, I guarantee he will continue to clarify it and lay out that plan. As several other people have pointed out on your show, there's a difference between being in a primary and being in a general election. Now he's getting down to specifics and a timeline and most importantly what he can actually pass and work with Paul Ryan and Congress in making sure happens, not just these empty campaign promises that continue to pander to the Hispanic and the African- American vote.

He actually wants to help them and get to a solution to a problem I think everybody agrees we have.

BALDWIN: Marilinda, you have just been listening to Scottie, and she's also used the word clarify, which I can already hear some folks on the left saying, well, hello, don't we have 77 or 78 more days to go? We need not be clarifying at this point in the campaign.

Mary Linda, what do you think?

MARILINDA GARCIA, NATIONAL SPOKESPERSON, LIBRE INITIATIVE: I think there's been a lot of clarifications and it's important that we not jump to conclusions.

But hopefully on Thursday, this will be somewhat of a rhetoric meets reality moment, in that so much rhetoric for the last now year at least have been quite political motivated, of course. And we have had a lot of that when it comes to the immigration debate in the last eight years, what with executive actions and promises coming from the other camp as well, the Clinton campaign.

I'm hoping the divisive rhetoric will maybe be toned down and we will be looking at what we really want, which is practical, sensible, feasible reforms that can be achieved on a bipartisan basis through Congress. This is what all we want to hear and this is what's extremely important to the Latino and Hispanic community.

BALDWIN: Now, tone-down rhetoric may be great if he wants to grab those Hispanic voters in this final stretch, but it may not work for those more hard-liners who have effusively supported him to get him this nomination, Angela Rye, which I'm wondering net gain/net loss there for the Trump campaign. You're listening to all of this. Thoughts?

ANGELA RYE, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, a couple things.

I think one is, I remember being a kid and my mother needing to put my medicine in something sweeter, so that I would digest it, right? So just because Donald Trump is saying today that the policies will be more humane, I can't help but to think about the fact that during the primary season and debates, he talked about deporting, literally putting on planes 11 million people, or he talked about building this big beautiful wall, or he talked about the fact that Mexicans are drug dealers and rapists.

When you hear all of those things combined, there's still medicine, and I would argue poison in this instance, that even if he is wrapping something sweet around it, it still is what it is.

So unless he's talking about substantially dialing back these policies to now meet the Kellyanne/Pence campaign, if he's not doing that, it's still Breitbart and Trump.

BALDWIN: Scottie?

HUGHES: Well, it doesn't matter what the GOP or Donald Trump does to reach out to Hispanic voters or African-American voters. There's always going to be people that are just going to spin it and say that -- they are going to ignore it and sit there and demonize it.

(CROSSTALK)

[15:10:05]

BALDWIN: What do you mean it doesn't matter?

HUGHES: It doesn't matter what he says. There's nothing that sometimes the GOP can say to people like Angela Rye and others that will appease them, unless it's simply, I give up.

And that's not what we are going to do in this country. I think when you talk about the specific policy issues, like school choice, Mr. Trump is the only one that is for school choice, school vouchers. The majority of African-Americans, 58 percent, they're for it as well.

When we get into the specifics and actually are able to talk about those instead, I think many within both of those minority groups will say, maybe I should be giving the Republican Party a second chance.

RYE: Since you evoked my name Scottie, let me respond to you.

So, the reason why I can laugh off your candidate and the reason why you're non-responsive to my needs and to the needs of people who look like me in my community, even though we're not monolithic, especially when you start talking about black and brown folks, because you just lumped us together. And that's part of the reason why you all had the autopsy report to begin with in 2012.

The first thing you probably should do is engage of concerned citizens. And you should do it a whole lot sooner than in August, like Mr. Trump did on Saturday with the Latino folks who are just -- one, for example, was so excited to be there this morning at this hour that he didn't know what happened in the meeting.

So I think that part of the good start is to understand history and what our policy prescriptions, needs, and priorities are. And then you can start speaking for me. But, thanks, Scottie.

HUGHES: It's interesting that you brought that up, because actually Mr. Trump started engaging last August, when he first put together his African-American coalition.

RYE: No.

(CROSSTALK)

HUGHES: But you choose to ignore those conservatives and Republicans who are African-Americans that are supporting Mr. Trump.

But there's been a large coalition, a long track record of them.

(CROSSTALK)

RYE: All five of them.

(CROSSTALK)

HUGHES: No. There's more than 100 pastors that signed a letter a year ago.

What has Hillary Clinton done to reach out to these communities?

(CROSSTALK)

RYE: I'm happy to answer that.

That's clearly a talking point that you got on the call earlier. What I will tell you is this, plain and simply. If you want to reach out to African-American voters, Scottie, the one way to not do that is to go into North Carolina and talk about you wish that the voter suppression measure that the judge threw out was still on the books.

If you want to reach out to African-American people, one way not to do that is to call Black Lives Matter activists thugs and terrorists. If you want to reach out black voters, one way to not do that is to talk about paying the legal fees of someone who hit a black protester or a black man in the face.

If you want to reach out to black voters, don't throw black people out of your rallies. So, there are a number of ways to do that, and none of them are what your candidate has done.

BALDWIN: I'm listening to both of you. And I appreciate.

Just hang on a second.

Marilinda, I know you want to jump in. Go ahead, Marilinda.

GARCIA: Sure, yes.

I was just going to say, here's the point. Again, we can talk about what people say and how it's perceived and received by different communities. But at the end of the day, we actually need policy solutions, because policy-makers have to put something in legislation that will accomplish our goals.

So instead of talking about, you know, who said it best, who is being divisive, I know that's a problem in this country, unfortunately, very pervasively right now, but at the end of the day, we all need to be talking about solutions. There are a lot of practical reforms that are real out there and that are feasible. And hopefully Trump will roll some forward and people on the other side will as well and we can all work together on that. I think that's what everybody wants.

(CROSSTALK)

HUGHES: Angela just made my point when I say, it doesn't matter what we say. Angela will always demonize...

(CROSSTALK)

RYE: No, all of that mattered. Every single bit of those points mattered.

BALDWIN: Let's say goodbye for now. But I would say that words matter. No matter what, whatever candidate, words absolutely matter, especially in this final bit of time before November 8.

Marilinda Garcia, thank you. Angela Rye, thank you. And Scottie Hughes, thank you as well.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Again, on the immigration piece, Trump is speaking Thursday. We will be listening for that.

Coming up next, a lot has been made of the Breitbart CEO who's joined the Trump team, but the real secret weapon perhaps to his new campaign could be campaign manager Kellyanne Conway. And we will speak with someone who grew up with her, who has worked alongside Kellyanne for years and years. More on that and her sort of fingerprints on Mr. Trump.

And, later, schools in Miami go back as the Zika virus continues to spread in this part of the country. We will talk live to a pregnant woman who has canceled vacations and actually rarely goes outside to avoid getting bitten so she can have a healthy child. We will talk to her coming up. You're watching CNN?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:18:14]

BALDWIN: Kellyanne Conway may very well be Donald Trump's secret weapon. She is now the first woman to run a Republican presidential campaign. The longtime Washington pollster is already trying to soften his approach on the campaign trail. And Trump's recent comments aimed specifically at African-American voters already have her working overtime.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CONWAY: But those comments are for all Americans. And I live in a white community. I'm white. I was very moved by his comment. In other words, he is trying to tell Americans that we can do better and the thing he said that I think got a great deal of resonance is that maybe Hillary Clinton looks at you as voters and sort of takes you for granted. I look at you as people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Joining me now, Sophia Nelson, former House Republican Committee Council and childhood friend of Kellyanne Conway. She penned the book "Black Woman Redefined: Dispelling Myths and Discovering Fulfillment in the Age of Michelle Obama," a book researched by Kellyanne Conway.

So, Sophia, welcome. Nice to meet you.

SOPHIA NELSON, AUTHOR, "BLACK WOMAN REDEFINED": Hey, thanks for having me, Brooke.

BALDWIN: So first just on the personal with you two ladies. You both grew up in South Jersey. You describe her as a person of faith. You think of her as a sister. My question to you is, did Kellyanne Conway ever come to you and say, I have been approached by the Trump camp, do you think I should do it?

NELSON: No, she didn't. Kellyanne would never do anything like that. She's such a woman of integrity.

She's my sister from another mother. We're 12 days apart, Brooke. I'm older. We both have big birthdays next year. I'm not going to say what number, but we both have big ones.

(LAUGHTER)

NELSON: And she's just a person of high integrity. She has got her hands full, though. She's got her job cut out for her.

BALDWIN: Were you surprise that she said yes and she took this massive role on?

[15:20:00]

NELSON: Very much so, because she has four kids and a husband and she's a busy career girl.

So, I thought to myself, my goodness, how is she going to fit this in? But she will make it work. And there's nobody better that understands women better than Kellyanne. You mentioned in your intro that I penned the book "Black Woman Redefined."

And when I announced that Kellyanne Conway was going to be doing the research, some of the sisters weren't too happy with me about that, because they thought, why are you having a white woman do research about a black woman's book? But I said, trust me on this. She will get this right. And she made sure that the focus groups were run by African-American women.

She's someone that has the pulse on how women think, feel, shop, buy, what we do. And I think that if she can help Donald Trump in that regard, she will do her best to do so.

BALDWIN: I have talked to a number of folks who have known her for years and just talk about how well-respected she is. I know she got her start in 1988 working for Ronald Reagan's pollster on how the Republican Party could better attract women voters and then flash- forward seven years and she started her own company, Polling Company, WomenTrend.

That said, I have also talked to some folks who have known her, who respect her, who say when she took this job on, they were surprised to her, that it felt like she was selling out.

NELSON: No, I don't think -- I think I I'll go back to my original point, Brooke.

Kellyanne is of high integrity. Her faith is central to her. And I think she did this because she believes that the Republican candidate is going to be better than the Democratic candidate. And I think she was a Ted Cruz supporter before she jumped on Donald Trump's campaign.

But I do think that she's got her hands full. They have got to get him off of Twitter. He has to use better language when he's talking to African-Americans.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Do you think he will listen to her?

NELSON: Well, I hope so.

Angela Rye had it right in your last segment about the way that the Trump campaign is engaging African-American voters. It's not good. I get what Kellyanne was trying to say about being moved, that he's outreaching. At least he's trying to say something, I guess, is the way she sees it.

But they are going to have to do a lot better than that. They are going to have to have credible black surrogates. With all due respect, Omarosa being your blackout reach director ain't the way to go. And I'm not trying to be mean to Omarosa. She's just a reality TV star. She's not a stalwart in the African-American community. She doesn't have the relationships and the street cred to get it done.

BALDWIN: Do you think, though -- that's so fascinating. Do you think when you hear now Mr. Trump's words in the speech last week about regrets, the outreach a couple of times in the last week specifically to African-Americans, do you think -- does that have Kellyanne all over that?

NELSON: Well, it does. I think that again she's inclusive. She understands the demographics are changing in our elections. Right?

You cannot win the campaign in a major presidential election anymore with just white voters. The numbers aren't there anymore. The country has browned. It has become more female. And so our demographics have shifted.

And I think she's doing her best. But if they don't get Trump disciplined, Brooke, and if he doesn't stay off of Twitter and stop attacking TV and radio hosts on Twitter, he has got to do better if he wants to be president. He has got to act presidential.

Hillary Clinton just doesn't do those things. And I think it hurts him.

BALDWIN: She has a huge job. It's an historic job. And how about that?

NELSON: It sure is.

BALDWIN: A mom of four kids?

NELSON: Yes.

BALDWIN: Sophia Nelson, thank you so much for the insight. I appreciate it.

NELSON: Thanks for having me.

BALDWIN: You got it.

Coming up next here: a newborn caught in the crossfire in Syria from his very first breath, his mother hit by shrapnel as she walked to the hospital. This extraordinary -- extraordinary scenes from inside the operating room and a rare happy ending.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:28:02]

BALDWIN: Every detail we get about what happened is more heartbreaking than the last.

I'm talking about this young woman wearing the scarf here in this video. She is dealing with the fact that 54 people at her wedding celebration were killed by a suicide bomber; 22 of them were children. The bride, we're told, has suffered a nervous breakdown after returning to that wedding site.

Her husband did survive that attack. This is in Southern Turkey. The Turkish president is blaming ISIS. He said the attacker appeared to have been as young as 12, 12, but the Turkish prime minister now says it's not clear how old the bomber was.

Now, not far from Turkey, the grotesque reality of ISIS sending young children to their deaths is driven home in this scene in Northern Iraq. Here you see police in Kirkuk removing what appears to be a suicide vest from a boy they say was acting suspiciously. The governor says he is 15 and claims to be a member of the so-called Cubs of the Caliphate.

CNN senior international correspondent Nima Elbagir has done extensive reporting on ISIS recruitment of young children. She joins me from London.

And, Nima, you look at the video. The boy apparently came from Mosul, which is controlled by ISIS. These kids, because that's what they are, are forced into this caliphate at gunpoint. They are often killed if they say no. Is this type of recruitment of young boys, is this on the rise?

NIMA ELBAGIR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It absolutely is, Brooke, especially as ISIS itself comes under pressure from the Iraqi forces, from the U.S.-led coalition in their desperation.

What was once a propaganda tool, parading these children and their brainwashing in front of their recruitment cameras, has now become actually a real need. While they save the more experienced soldiers to fight actually in the front lines, what they're increasingly doing, we're seeing, is that they're using them as suicide bombers, as you saw with that young boy in the north of Iraq, as we have seen when we visit the front lines in Iraq.

The soldiers there describe --