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Trump Reaching Out To Minority Voters; Trump Not Flip-Flopping On Immigration; Less Emphasis From Clinton On Colorado And Virginia; Trump Holding Campaign Event In Ohio Tonight; State of the Presidential Race. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired August 22, 2016 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks for watching, everyone. Brianna Keilar is in for Wolf and she starts right now.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: Hi there, I'm Brianna Keilar in for Wolf Blitzer. It is 1:00 p.m. here in Washington. Wherever you're watching from around the world, thank you so much for joining us.

With 78 days to go until the U.S. presidential election, the candidates are focusing on key battleground states. They're getting their finances in order and they are honing their messages to voters.

For Donald Trump, that means reaching out to minority voters. He made a couple of speeches aimed at African-American voters, and now he's focusing on Hispanic Americans. His campaign manager hinted Trump may be rethinking a key part of his proposed immigration policy. The round up and deportation as many of 11 million undocumented immigrants. But, today, Donald Trump did not waiver.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE (via telephone): We have to be very firm. We have to be very, very strong when people come in illegally. We have a lot of people that want to come in through the legal process. It's not fair for them. And we're working with a lot of people in the Hispanic community to try to come up with an answer.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, you're not flip-flopping?

TRUMP: No, I'm not flip-flopping. We want to come up with a really fair but firm answer. It has to be very firm.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: The Clinton camp countered with the talk of this policy change with a statement that says Donald Trump's immigration plan remains the same as it always has been: tear apart families.

Here with me now is Sunlen Serfaty following the Trump strategy and CNN Senior Washington Correspondent Jeff Zeleny who is tracking the Clinton campaign. And this is really the question, Sunlen, is he flip-flopping? He says no but there seems to be this impression from some of the reporting that came out of a meeting that he had on Saturday with the Hispanic Advisory Council that maybe he is trying to soften which would make sense in a general election strategy. So, which is it?

SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we just don't know yet is, quite frankly, the answer here, Brianna. You know, Donald Trump, you heard him say he wants to devise a fair and firm strategy. But it depends on what the definition of what fair and firm is.

And, as you said, leaving that meeting over the weekend with his Hispanic out-reach council newly formed, a lot of those participants were left with the idea that maybe he was softening, maybe he's stepping away from key parts of his proposals. And that was almost backed up over the weekend by what his new campaign manager, Kellyanne Conway, said. Where she basically said the deportation force isn't a set in stone policy. So, that brings out more questions.

KEILAR: Dana Bash asked her twice, and she dodged the first time. And then, the second time, she said, to be determined. Right? So, she wasn't quite sticking to it.

SERFATY: Right. And Trump is giving a major policy address on immigration this week, at some point, where potentially we'll hear some clarification.

KEILAR: What does this mean from the Clinton campaign perspective, Jeff?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Well, the Clinton campaign obviously wants to keep voters abreast of what he said initially. They do not want him to backtrack on this at all. And if they do, they want to call him out on it.

But, look, we saw the statement from John Pedesta there. They want to not allow Donald Trump to pivot to a softer approach in the general election. So, we'll see paid advertising on this. We will see a ton of response on this because this is similar to what Donald Trump did on his Muslim policy. He, you know, had a full-throated speech in the beginning in the primary and then he backed away a little bit, in terms of not allowing Muslims to come into the U.S.

KEILAR: Complete and total ban.

ZELENY: Exactly, I was at that rally in South Carolina and I remembered it was -- it was very clear.

KEILAR: It was pretty straightforward.

ZELENY: It became not so clear. So, clearly, he is -- you know, there's some disagreement. But he may be backed into a corner on this as well here because he could lose support from some on the right here. But the Clinton campaign is eager to hold him to and accountable what his words said. Most of their advertising strategy is Donald Trump in his own voice.

KEILAR: And -- OK. So -- but let's talk about their advertising strategy because you have Virginia. You have Colorado. I mean, these are places with either large or expanding Hispanic American voting blocks.

ZELENY: Right.

KEILAR: They're not spending big there, the Clinton campaign. What does that tell us?

ZELENY: That tells us that the Clinton campaign is very confident, at their position at least, right now, heading into Labor Day in both Virginia and Colorado. Up some 10 points at least. A "Washington Post" poll last week showed Virginia up 14 points for the Clinton campaign.

And we all remember from 2012, Virginia was one of the closest states. Barack Obama beat Mitt Romney only three percentage points. So, the fact that Virginia, what, is a double digit state, Colorado as well. The Clinton campaign and her Democratic super pacs feels very confidence about that, at this point. We see the numbers on the screen right there here.

So, you know, it's still a potential for shifting. Polls are not predictions. They are a snapshot in the moment. But in this moment, Donald Trump is losing both of those states.

KEILAR: So, what are we -- I guess, what is our assessment of what's happening with Donald Trump right now, Sunlen? Because he's had this shift in his campaign management. He did have a couple days where -- I mean, even if -- he says things that are somewhat controversial but it seemed like he was sticking to topic.

[13:05:12] And then, today, he goes on a Twitter tirade against the MSNBC morning show hosts, when he's supposed to be focused on immigration, right?

SERFATY: Exactly. This is not what his campaign wants him to be doing right now. They have devised a new strategy -- or new for them at least strategy, of sticking to one topic, making it a unique every week. This week is immigration. Next week is education. And having the candidate come out with a major policy proposal and a lot of talking points at his rally throughout the speech. Stick to those teleprompters. They don't want him on Twitter tweeting these things.

So, this has certainly deviated --

ZELENY: Good luck.

SERFATY: -- from that strategy. Exactly.

KEILAR: You talk to Republicans, Jeff, and they see what happened today with this. And they're just, like, oh, my goodness.

ZELENY: Because, clearly, he is sitting at home watching cable television, watching network television, and responding in real time on his own without, you know, the consultation of these new advisors he's brought in. You know, it works for his supporters. The problem here for him, it doesn't allow him to expand or grow here and, you know, it takes it off topic.

But, I mean, he was basically awaiting (ph) into a tabloid gossip this morning in his tweets.

KEILAR: Yes, definitely. Jeff Zeleny, Sunlen Serfaty, thank you, guys, so much.

Let's talk more about the Trump campaign's minority voter outreach. I want to welcome Sean Spicer, Chief Strategist and Communications Director for the Republican National Committee. He's joining me from New York.

So, you have, Sean, Donald Trump saying, I'm not -- I am not flip- flopping on immigration. He says, though, that he wants a fair but firm plan.

Just explain this to us, because a lot of folks walked out of that Hispanic Advisory Council meeting on Saturday, thinking that, perhaps, he was trying to moderate a little bit. You have his campaign manager asked about this deportation force that he promised and she wouldn't say it was going to be in his plan. To be determined, Kellyanne Conway said. Let's listen, actually, to that sound.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DANA BASH, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Will that plan include a deportation force, the kind that he just -- you just heard in that sound bite and that he talked about during the Republican primaries?

KELLYANNE CONWAY, COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, TRUMP CAMPAIGN: To be determined.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: OK, that was the second time she was asked the question. The first time she kind of stayed away from it. And then, that time, she just didn't really commit to it. But she's not saying it's going to be in there. So, what should we expect from his plan on immigration?

SEAN SPICER, CHIEF STRATEGIST, REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE: Well, I think what Kellyanne did and what I'm going to do is let Mr. Trump speak for himself. As you noted, he's going to be addressing this subject in the next couple of weeks, and I think he's going to lay out a very detailed plan.

We have 11 million plus folks that are here illegally. I think what he said this morning has been consistent with what he said all along that we need to be fair, firm, but also humane. There are families here. There are people that have been here a while. And he understands the impact that it has on families and the -- and the economy, frankly.

And so, I think that what he wants to do is lay out a plan that's well thought through and not just a sound bite that gets thrown out. So, as he gets -- goes along in the next couple of weeks, he's going to continue to lay out his plan on both immigration and education. He's talked already about taxes and the economy and national security. And you're going to see more and more of this over the coming weeks of him laying out detailed plans to draw -- to address the problems and problems that we have in this country right now.

KEILAR: But I think -- he initially talked about a deportation force. Do we have that sound? Oh, we do have that sound. So, let's listen to that and then talk about it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We're going to have a deportation force and you're going to do it humanely.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Will they get ripped out of their homes? How?

TRUMP: They're going back to where they came. If they came from a certain country, they're going to be brought back to their country. That's the way it's supposed to be. Now, they can come back but they have to come back legally.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: A deportation force, is that fair, firm and humane?

SPICER: Well, it's something that Hillary Clinton's talked about as well. I mean, so, if we want to talk about immigration, let's look at everybody's record. Hillary Clinton's been -- voted for a fence. She's talked about sending back illegals that were here that did not go through the proper channels. So, I think, there -- it's one thing to just -- to look at it, in terms of what he said. But let's look at it --

KEILAR: You're saying Hillary Clinton is proposing this right now?

SPICER: No, no, no. She has talked about this in the past as well, is making sure that people's --

KEILAR: Which is why I'm -- so, he -- I'm trying to -- and now, she doesn't. So, now, I'm trying to understand.

SPICER: You know, but --

KEILAR: He talked about that recently so what's the deal now?

SPICER: Right. And so, what I'm saying is Mr. Trump, as Kellyanne has said, as you've noted, he's going to be talking about this in the coming weeks. And so, he will go into a detailed plan on his stance on immigration. How we're going to address people here illegally. And how we're going to strengthen legal immigration to meet the needs of this country.

But I think to get ahead of him is not exactly the right way to go about this. He needs to sit here, as he did with taxes, as he did with national security, as he's done with a host of topics over the last week, and lay out a real plan with a real solution as to dealing with a real problem.

But there are people that are in this country. We're a nation of laws. He understands the complexity of this and is going lay out plan to address it.

KEILAR: So -- OK, sure. But he -- so, he talked about a deportation force. Now, he's talking about fair, firm and humane. You say he's going to lay out details.

[13:10:02] But I guess I'm just trying to get to the bottom of this. Is a deportation force fair, fir -- fair, firm and humane?

SPICER: Well, it depends on how it's done, right? I mean, that's the point. He recognizes the complexity that exists in a problem like this. The families and relationships that exist. And we want to do something that recognizes that we're, A, a nation of laws, but also one that understands that there are people out there. There are families. There's an economic consequence to this and he's going to lay out a detailed plan to address it. I'm really not sure how I could say it over and over, you know, again. But, I mean, it's fairly simple. It's a complex discussion that needs to occur. He's going to treat it with the level of respect that it needs.

KEILAR: OK. I want to talk to you about some of his outreach to African-American voters. What actually a lot of people look at and say, it might not even be outreach to African-American voters. It might be an appeal to people who are not African-American voters but want for him to be more inclusive. These are appeals that he's made in places that are overwhelmingly white communities. He said -- he said to African-American voters last week, what the hell to you have to lose? Is that in line with some of the RNC prescriptions that we saw coming out of last election, where you guys said there needed to be a better appeal to black voters?

SPICER: Right. Well, there's two things to note. One is, I think his point, as you look at some of these large urban areas around the country, they're all run by Democrats. They've all been a failure, when it comes to economic development, education. And I think his point is, look, you've been told by the Democrats over and over again that you must vote with us. Their vote has been taken for granted. What do you have to lose? We've got solutions to lift people out of poverty, to get them good education, to help small businesses succeed, to put people back to work. And that's his point.

But second of all, I think it's really important to look at the totality of Donald Trump. In 1985, when he went and bought Mar-a- Largo, and all the liberals down in Palm Beach Country didn't let people join clubs and institutions because of the color of their skin or the religion that they belonged to. It was Donald Trump that went out and bucked the establishment and fought to make sure that people, no matter the color of their skin or the religion that they believed in, could join his clubs. He's got a corporation that employs thousands of people but also --

KEILAR: OK. So, --

SPICER: -- has one of the largest percentage --

KEILAR: -- but what about now?

SPICER: Let me finish the question. Hold on. Let me finish the answer. The point is that when you actually look --

KEILAR: Well, the answer to my --

SPICER: I am. And the point that I'm saying to you is that when you look at his actions, not just this year when he's running for office or the pandering like Hillary Clinton does every time he gets done with a speech. But the totality of a 30, 40-year career, he has been someone that's promoted minorities, put more executive women in levels of power. And so, you actually look at a guy's record over 30 and 40 years, I think that's pretty telling.

KEILAR: Why doesn't he talk to an audience of black voters or go to a community that is, you know, I mean, at least, you know, 10 percent African-American? He hasn't been doing that.

SPICER: Well, he's had meetings with black pastors, black business people. As you noted, he had a --

KEILAR: But he has chosen forums, Sean, that are overwhelmingly white. I mean, to the tune of 90 some odd percent white. How is that talking to black voters?

SPICER: Because I think that you look at it -- because he understands that you've got to talk to all Americans about your plans to lift off (ph). Look, he has huge events at stadiums. You can't just move those around. But if you actually start to look at the audience, I think there's a level of diversity there. He understands it. He did meet with folks both this past week and going forward.

KEILAR: But there's not --

SPICER: I think, look, if you want to talk about spending time, Hillary Clinton just --

(CROSSTALK)

KEILAR: -- look, you said it. We have producers in these -- in these audiences watching these audiences, both of these where he delivered these messages were predominantly white. If you were advising a candidate who was trying to say, reach out to women, would you go to room of men to deliver that message?

SPICER: No, but he's going to major venues at major -- in big states. You don't just -- you can't move the venue. I mean, give me a break. I think this is somewhat ridiculous. He's made an effort not just through the --

KEILAR: Well, you could pick a different --

SPICER: Hold on. Let me -- hold on.

KEILAR: -- part of the city.

SPICER: Please let me answer the question if you're going to ask it. And the -- and my point to you is that if you look at the totality of what he's done over the last 40 years, it's not just about pandering and rhetoric. It's the actions that he's had as a businessman where he's gone out and actually put people in power. He's empowered people. He's given tons of money to organizations that have helped to lift people out of poverty and better their lives.

So, if you want to talk about where he holds events in the last 10 months and whether or not he's done an appropriate job of pandering, that's one thing. But the totality of a 40-year career where he's -- he has lifted people up. He has given them opportunities. He has benefited charities that have helped people. Then, I'll take that any day of the week.

KEILAR: Then, why doesn't he say that to an African-American crowd or at least try to say that to an African-American crowd by going to a community that is not 90 some odd percent white? If that's an argument he wants to make, Sean, I think anyone can look at that and say, that is a good argument. She should make it.

SPICER: Wait, hold on.

KEILAR: Why isn't he making it to black voters in his audience?

SPICER: He just did. He sat there last week. You just talked about his pitch to them. He talked about how, in a second term of a Clint -- of a Trump presidency, he wants to get a majority of the black vote.

[13:15:02] KEILAR: In Dimondale, --

SPICER: He was show -- hold on.

(CROSSTALK)

KEILAR: -- 97 percent white in the --

SPICER: Brianna, let me answer the question.

KEILAR: Ninety-seven percent white in the part of Milwaukee that is 1.3 percent black.

SPICER: OK. He has made it very clear that he wants to earn their vote, he wants to help solve the problems that they face. I'm not sure how much more he could communicate that.

But let's -- let's face reality. We're sitting here spending six, seven minutes talking about where the venue of his location is on a day in which 15,000 more e-mails come out about Hillary Clinton and the relationship that exists between her selling access to the United States government and them enriching themselves over where a venue occurred. I think it's more important for someone who told the American people that the only e-mails she didn't turn over were yoga and about recipes and Chelsea, that the only bending over backwards it looks like Hillary Clinton did was to help rich donors get access to the government. I think that's what we should be talking about. The only flexibility that she has shown is the type of flexibility to help people that will help benefit the Clintons and let them live by a second set of rules. That's what I think is probably more pressing for the American people right now.

KEILAR: You know, Sean, the nice thing about CNN, is we have plenty of time to discuss both things. And I agree with you, that is something we should discuss and we are going to be discussing it in this hour. But I think that when you're talking about outreach, it's also an important topic. And we certainly appreciate you coming on to talk about it. Sean Spicer joining us from New York. Thanks.

SPICER: Thank you.

KEILAR: Now still ahead, Donald Trump's running mate, Mike Pence, may be trying to soften Donald Trump's message to minority voters, but he is making no apologies for the Republican candidate.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. MIKE PENCE (R), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The race is on. This is going to be a competitive race all the way to the end. But I truly do believe we've got the right candidate, we've got the right message and this movement is going to carry Donald Trump all the way to the White House.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:20:29] KEILAR: Donald Trump's running mate admits the candidate's choice of words can sometimes muddle his message. Indiana Governor Mike Pence went one-on-one with CNN's Alisyn Camerota and she asked him about the latest shake-up within the Trump campaign. Pence also defended Donald Trump's attempt to appeal to African-American voters by telling them, quote, "you're living in poverty, your schools are no good, you have to jobs." Here's how Governor Pence explained it to Alisyn.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. MIKE PENCE (R), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Donald Trump is not an experienced politician who carefully selects his words. He speaks right from his heart, right from his mind. And what you heard this week is a leader who is determined to make America great for everyone in this country. And I think you're going to continue to see this campaign in the days and weeks ahead speak directly to Americans in every community about what our plan to make America great again is going to mean for them, mean for their families. There's always a time as you approach Labor Day where campaigns kind

of evolve and change and have additions. And I expect that to continue to be evidence of a campaign that's on a roll. I mean you look at this last week, Donald Trump laid out a compelling vision for confronting radical Islamic terrorists. And he laid out a message for law and order in every community in this state. He showed his mind and he showed his heart, both in his speech on Thursday night and in the compassionate way that he visited with hurting families in Louisiana. And I think these changes are just all part and parcel of seeing this campaign come together.

And, look, the race is on. This is going to be a competitive race all the way to the end. But I truly do believe we've got the right candidate, we've got the right message and this movement is going to carry Donald Trump all the way to the White House.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Pence was also asked about Trump's praise and admiration for Russian President Vladimir Putin. Pence took more of a hard line on the Russian leader.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PENCE: Vladimir Putin has a history in the KGB. He has a strong authoritarian tendency to him in Russia and I think he's someone that needs to be watched. But the truth of the matter is, what we've seen over the last seven and a half years is an administration that has so little respect by the world community, including by Russia, that Russia and other countries in the wider Arab world, the borders have been denigrating and we've seen aggressive action not only by Russia, but by China in the South China Sea. I think the American people know that the broad-shouldered leadership that Donald Trump will bring to the White House will immediately command the respect of the world.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Let's talk about this interview and also about all goings-on when it comes to Donald Trump with our panel. We have CNN political analyst Rebecca Berg, national political reporter for Real Clear Politics, "Washington Post" reporter Abby Phillip, and David Catanese, senior politics writer for "U.S. News & World Report."

OK, I -- this is my question because I've almost heard this now become a bit of a punch line where Donald Trump says something and you put it through like the Mike Pence machine and then it pops out as something that is sort of softened and sometimes doesn't even really resemble what Donald Trump initially said.

DAVID CATANESE, SENIOR POLITICAL WRITER, "U.S. NEWS & WORLD REPORT": I think Mike Pence has done a hell of a job walking the line of being loyal to the candidate but not parroting his language, because a lot of this is about self-preservation for Mike Pence. I think Mike Pence made a play. He's always had ambitions to be president himself. He said, putting himself on -- he thought putting himself on this ticket would be better for his long term chances. I also think that he thinks, next to Donald Trump, Mike Pence looks a

little more moderate when, you know, we're not talking about the Religious Freedom Act that he put through.

KEILAR: Sure.

CATANESE: He was a pretty social conservative in Indiana. So -- for the long term of Mike Pence, I actually think he has done a pretty good job of not going whole hog with Trump's more incendiary comments, but preserving himself.

KEILAR: Maybe Mike Pence going through the Mike Pence machine actually softens him as well.

But this is -- we've seen this a lot, though, right, where he's sort of -- he is walking this line. And, for instance, on tax returns, he's putting his out, right? Donald Trump is still not putting his out.

CATANESE: Right.

KEILAR: But it doesn't seem to create any friction between him and the Trump campaign much, right? Do they feel like it's actually a benefit to Donald Trump?

ABBY PHILLIP, REPORTER, "THE WASHINGTON POST": Well, it seems like they're allowing Mike Pence to be Mike Pence. And he's -- I mean, even before he was on the ticket, he had been critical of the wall. He had sort of these very public stances that were not in line with his now running mate.

[13:25:00] I think the issue is also, what -- does this translate to voters? I mean we notice it. We see Mike Pence and we listen very closely to what he's saying. But I think Donald Trump is such a force at the top of the ticket that even with the Mike Pence machine it's hard for that to actually penetrate to voters who still believe that Donald Trump believes what he said yesterday and the day before and six months ago and so on.

KEILAR: Yes. And -- yes, maybe we're sort of -- we are listening but maybe we're overestimating the impact that it has.

Let's talk about Donald Trump when it comes to immigration, because that's what he's trying to focus on this week, Rebecca. And he -- well, one, he's taken on MSNBC morning show hosts. So he's kind of going off topic there for sure. But then he's also now creating a little bit of confusion about where his plan is. Some folks walked out of this Hispanic advisory board meeting with him on Saturday and thought, maybe he's softening up this deportation force language.

REBECCA BERG, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: It's always difficult with Donald Trump to tell whether he is actually pivoting and intentionally softening his language, or whether he's just saying things and not recognizing what the deeper meaning in that is. And so immigration is a great example of this because throughout the campaign he's been pretty consistent, saying, you know, we want a wall, we want to send people back, et cetera, et cetera. But over the course of his career, he has not been consistent. In 2013, and this is something that Ted Cruz raised during the primary, in 2013 he tweeted that as soon as Congress is able to focus on strengthening the borders and stopping illegal immigration, then they could consider amnesty for illegal immigrants already in the country. And so over the course of his career, he's been remarkably inconsistent. And it's one of the toughest things about Donald Trump is figuring out what he actually means when he says something. And, in this case, it's completely unclear if he's pivoting or if he just says something differently and doesn't actually mean to pivot.

PHILLIP: It does seem though that his advisors are trying to kind of test the waters a little bit about how far they can go without alienating his base, but also making him maybe a little bit more palatable in the suburbs of Ohio and Virginia and elsewhere. So I think it's unsettled how far they are going to go. But for months, I mean, going back to Paul Manafort several months ago, they had talked about the potential for him to continue to further soften his position. He hasn't yet, but they keep talking about it, which indicates they're looking for a way in.

BERG: And certainly his advisors clearly would like him to pivot a little bit --

PHILLIP: Yes.

BERG: And try to reach out to a broader audience. The problem now is the same problem it's been all along, which is that Donald Trump does not want to pivot, does not want to change his tone or his rhetoric.

PHILLIP: Right.

KEILAR: You seem to -- you seem to have -- real quick.

CATANESE: Impossible for him to whitewash immigration.

KEILAR: OK. Yes.

CATANESE: This is how he came up. This is why he's won the primary. If he were to go out today and say I don't -- I'm not for the wall anymore. I'm not for kicking out the criminals and the rapist who he labeled in his announcement speech, he -- I mean he -- he has enough problems with inconsistency. This is what is core to his base, core to his appeal. I see it's impossible. It's engrained in the electorate.

KEILAR: David, Abby, Rebecca, you're all going to stick around with me. We have much more ahead. We're talking Hillary Clinton, because the FBI has revealed yet another twist in the controversy surrounding her e-mail server.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)