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Blasts and Gunfire at American University; Presidential Race. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired August 24, 2016 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[14:00:00] ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Hi there. I'm Brooke Baldwin. You're watching CNN.

Let's get straight to the breaking news here out of Afghanistan, where we're watching these reports here, reports of explosions and gunfire out of American University there in the capital city of Kabul. At least five people have been injured. A police operation is set to launch very shortly, searching this campus for any suspected attackers, gunmen.

Keep in mind, this is the very same university where all of just a couple weeks ago two lecturers were kidnapped at gunpoint right from their car. In fact, one of them was an American.

So let's begin our coverage with Nima Elbagir. She's following this story for us.

Do we know, Nima, is this a hostage situation? Are there students and professors still trapped? What do we know right now?

NIMA ELBAGIR, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it has become a de facto hostage situation, whether that was intent - whether that was the intent is not yet clear, but we have reports of students and faculty members still trapped within that campus. It took hours for security forces even just to be able to break through the parameter of the university and get inside the university itself. They are now inside the university but we don't know as yet if they - if they have been able to even engage with the attackers.

Fortunately, over 100 people are now being reported as having escaped. They bring with them some pretty horrifying details, Brooke. Grenades being thrown. Students being chased. The tweets that were coming out of there made very difficult reading. "Please, someone, anyone, come help us." And this went on for hours. And as yet, security forces haven't actually managed to locate in which part of the campus the attackers have situated themselves. Those eyewitnesses we spoke of who managed to escape though said it appeared that they had prepared themselves for a long standoff, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Tell me more, Nima, about the university itself and the students who attend.

ELBAGIR: This was meant to be the lasting legacy for the United States in Afghanistan. This was about building the next generation of Afghan leadership. There have been a number of Fulbright scholars that have come out of the Afghan University - sorry, the American University in Afghanistan. This really was for the brightest and the best. And it was an incredibly prestigious institution which is why there were faculty members from around the world. And the symbolism of this being the American University, although as yet we haven't identified the assailants or who they represent, it's a very difficult symbolism to escape from. The reality is, this has been a target for a while now, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Nima Elbagir with the update, thank you so much.

Let me bring in Bilal Sarwary. He is a freelance journalist on the ground there in Kabul.

Bilal, if you can hear me, we were just hearing tales of grenades being thrown at - oh, there you are. We were seeing grenades being - can you hear me, Bilal? Bilal, it's Brooke. You're live on CNN.

Bob Baer, let me pivot to you, former CIA. You can talk to me a little bit about - while we work to get Bilal up and ready - do you know much about this university, Bob?

BOB BAER, CNN INTELLIGENCE AND SECURITY ANALYST: Yes. Of course it's U.S. sponsored and it's the United States effort to build a nation in Afghanistan after the invasion of 2001. A lot of money's been put into it. Try to bring American instructors in. They try and protect it. The security, like most public buildings in Kabul, is very, very good. But the Taliban are on the offensive - and I assume it's the Taliban - and they are able to breach these walls. It's not as well guarded as the American embassy, for instance or (INAUDIBLE) headquarters.

BALDWIN: Bob - yes. Bob, stand by. Let's try Bilal one more time. Bilal, it's Brooke. You're live on CNN. Can you hear me, sir?

BILAL SARWARY, FREELANCE JOURNALIST: Yes, I can.

BALDWIN: OK, wonderful. Tell me what you know. You're there in Kabul.

SARWARY: Unfortunately, this has been very personal for many of us. I've had my cousins, my relatives and my friends have been stuck inside classrooms when the attack happened. As we speak, Afghan special forces from the crisis response unit, and elite special forces unit, specifically trained to fight attacks like this, is on the ground. We understand close to 140 students have managed to escape for their lives. Some of them jumping over walls. Others have just gone into people's homes in west Kabul.

One of my family members who was there told me that the attackers had maps. They were drinking Red Bulls. Clearly aimed at staying for as long as they could. And that some of them were tossing hand grenades.

[14:05:10] Now, it is important to mention that ever since Raja Khani (ph), the leader of the Pakistan-based militant group, has taken over as the number two for the Taliban leadership, running the war for the Taliban, we have had very lethal and deadly attacks in Kabul. Whether that's a huge truck bombs or an attack like this. But what is very clear, that this is an attack on Afghanistan's future.

The America University of Afghanistan is a symbol of American and Afghan friendship. This is also a sign of the Americans telling the Afghans that we are here to help you. We are here to train your future generations. And I can simply tell you actually the top of my head, I know more than 50 government officials who have simply gone and got that quality education and they are running very important and key positions within the Afghan government.

But what it also boils down to is that the life of Afghans continues to be fraught with everyday risks and dangers. I also can tell you that some American citizens have managed to escape from the university. Some western nationals are still stuck inside. We still don't know who have carried out the attack, but one Afghan counterterrorism official said that this was an attack by those who did not want Afghanistan to prosper. Those who wanted Afghanistan to go back to the stones ages. So we'll have to wait and learn more. It's still a very fluid situation and many families are also calling local TV stations, like radio stations, trying simply to find about their loved ones. Many hospitals in Kabul have received Afghan students and many other civilians and they are being treated for their injuries.

BALDWIN: It is a place of promise and a future and it is entirely symbolic, I think to your point, Bilal.

Bob, let me - back to you on one of Bilal's details that these gunmen, according to those who have bene trapped, drinking Red Bull, had maps, using hand grenades. What does that tell you?

BAER: It was organized. It was combat hardened. You - Taliban. The Taliban has been on the move all across Afghanistan. Episodically they attack Kabul. They attacked a Shia gathering a couple months ago. They clearly intend to take as much of the country as they can before the winter sets in. And one way to do this is to destabilize the federal government - the government in Kabul and attack foreign targets. They are number one. And anybody they catch, a foreigner in this attack, it's going to be a real problem.

BALDWIN: Let me - Bilal, they still haven't found those two lecturers, the Australian and the American who were kidnapped, what, ten days ago from this very university. They still haven't been found, is that correct?

SARWARY: I think it's important to say that that - at that time, when that kidnapping took place, the Afghan interior ministry said that was a criminal case. We have seen that there have been kidnappings for ransom in many of the western citizens and rich Afghans are seen as golden gooses. I think what you also have to consider, that the security situation, whether that's threats from militants or criminal gangs here in Kabul, have changed dramatically. Restaurants where westerners and rich Afghans were hanging out or getting clothes, most westerners are leaving their homes. They were also employing Afghans, as you can imagine. So the situation, unfortunately, has changed.

But what is important, an attack like this is an attack on Afghanistan's future, as I said. What it does, it discourages people. What it does, it denies your future doctors and engineers. And this is also a country - let me make it clear - where educated people, they really don't grow on trees. You really don't have the luxury to get an education. You raise a kid. You raise someone who's 20 or 25. They've survived the civil war, the Taliban, all these attacks, and suddenly they're in their classrooms and they get killed. So lives for many families, for many relatives, continues to be destroyed and dreams continue to be shattered. And, unfortunately, that's one of the harsh realities of life here in Afghanistan.

BALDWIN: As the attacks continue, we'll revisit this again next hour. As we've been reporting, hand grenades being tossed out. At least about 100 students or so have managed to escape. But it is chilling, entirely, at the American University in Kabul in Afghanistan.

Bilal Sarwary and bob Baer, thank you so much.

Back here at home on politics, Donald Trump taking the stage moments ago. Here he is in Tampa, Florida. Will he continue, you know, hammering home his mega critique toward the Clinton Foundation over donations and access given by Hillary Clinton while she was secretary of state by - to donors? And has this controversy given Trump a new opening? We'll discuss that and why Trump is now - his words - softening his stance on immigration.

[14:10:19] Also, aftershocks felt moments ago after a devastating earthquake hit in Italy leaving this town in ruins. People using their own bare hands to save themselves from the rubble. We'll have a live report from Italy coming up.

You're watching CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Welcome back. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

To the race for the white House and what just might be Donald Trump's most effective line of attack against Hillary Clinton, accusing her of blurring the line between the State Department and the Clinton Foundation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: It is impossible to figure out where the Clinton Foundation ends and the State Department begins. It is now abundantly clear that the Clintons set up a business to profit from public office. They sold access and specific actions by and really for, I guess, the making of large amounts of money.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[14:15:30] BALDWIN: And Trump's ammo coming from, of all places, the media, specifically an Associated Press report. Within this report, it claims more than half of the private citizens who Hillary Clinton met with during her tenure - or half of her tenure - so two years as secretary of state, were donors to the Clinton Foundation. For its part, the Clinton campaign saying, quote, "this story relies on utterly flawed data. It cherry-picked a limited subset of Secretary Clinton's schedule to give a disoriented portrayal of how often she crossed paths with individuals connected to charitable donations to the Clinton Foundation."

All of this happening as Trump is getting his own fair share of raised eyebrows right about now. Donald Trump now saying he is open to, quote, "softening" his stance on immigration, just two days after denying he was changing any parts of his policy. His hard line position, of course, as we've been reporting, since he descended that escalator 14 or so months ago, you know, credited with drawing so much of his primary support.

So let's talk about all of this. I have Bill Press sitting next to me here in New York, CNN political commentator. Ned Ryan is with us, CEO of American Majority and former presidential writer for George W. Bush and a Trump supporter. Lisa Boothe is here, Republican strategist and contributor for "The Washington Examiner." And Bakari Sellers, CNN commentator and Clinton supporter.

So, Bakari, I've got to begin with you here. And, you know, on Hillary Clinton and this AP story, you know, is she trying to run down the clock? I mean is this a self-inflicted error that she could have avoided?

BAKARI SELLERS, CNN COMMENTATOR: No, I think the error actually is on the part of the AP. I mean what we saw was click bait journalism. We saw shoddy reporting at best. You had 85 out of - out of, I believe, 170 individuals who they say were private citizens, but she had over 17,000 meetings. These 85 donors were less than 1 percent of the 7,000 donors that have actually given to the Clinton Foundation. And, furthermore, when you look at some of these people, you're talking about Nobel Prize winners. You're talking about Bill Gates and his wife. I mean you're reducing these people to simple donors who should have the right to -

BALDWIN: But so you understand the question, though, Bakari, as far as these are folks she could have met with as secretary of state. Why didn't they go through those channels versus donating money, and to borrow Donald Trump's, you know, phrase that he's hammering, pay to play?

SELLERS: But that - that premise is - that premise is false. You're making the assumption that just because they donated money, they actually got a meeting.

BALDWIN: No.

SELLERS: The fact of the matter is, let's take the Prince of Bahrain for a - let's take the Prince of Bahrain. -

BALDWIN: But access was granted, maybe not favors, but access was granted, was it not?

SELLERS:"A portion of this transcript has been removed because a reference was made that the Crown Prince of Bahrain was a donor to the Clinton Foundation. However, the Crown Prince has not personally donated to the foundation. Instead, the Kingdom of Bahrain has donated between $50,000 and $100,000 to the Clinton Foundation, not the prince himself." He actually met with Hillary Clinton. But what people aren't talking

about is the fact that he also met with Joe Biden. The red carpet was also rolled out with Leon Panetta. He had a red carpet rolled out to him from the United States government, not just the secretary of state. It was not because he donated any money. There is no correlation and, in fact, the AP, they cannot close the circle. There was no - there was no pay to play in this.

LISA BOOTHE, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Well, Brooke -

SELLERS: In fact it's just - go ahead.

BALDWIN: Go ahead. Go ahead, Lisa, jump in.

BOOTHE: I think you would - I think most people would take what the Associated Press is reporting over a woman who took the unprecedented actions of setting up a server so that she could avoid FOIA requests and then tried to delete tens of thousands of e-mails so forensic evidence couldn't recovery it. So I think I'm going to take the Associated Press's word.

And the problem here, Bakari, is the fact that Hillary Clinton, as the nation's top diplomat as secretary of state, 40 percent of the donations that went to the Clinton Foundation were from foreign countries. And it's not just Republicans that are lobbing these attacks against Hillary Clinton and looking at the intersection between the Clinton Foundation and her time as secretary of state. It's also "The New York Times" who ran a story about Uranium One and a deal that she approved as secretary of state, which some of those individuals behind the Uranium One were donors that gave Russia 20 percent of U.S. uranium. It's also "The International Business Times" who did an investigative report talking about the fact that arms sales to governments that donated to the Clinton Foundation increased under Secretary Clinton's watch.

So the problem here is the fact that we have the nation's top diplomat, secretary of state, taking money from a lot of these sketchy governments as well, Middle Eastern countries that have egregious human rights records.

NED RYAN, CEO, AMERICAN MAJORITY: Which, you know, Brooke, there's a couple of other things in add to in addition to this AP story. Things that - some of the things that have not been reported on a wide note yet. Again, the U.S. attorney in the southern district of New York appears to be opening an investigation of corruption charges into the Clinton Foundation. You know, a judge on Monday -

[14:20:09] BALDWIN: But can we stay on what we're talking about? Can we stay - I mean I understand, you know -

RYAN: But here's - this is - this is about the foundation.

BALDWIN: Ned, as a Trump supporter. But on the - if you would, Bill, go ahead.

RYAN: But here's the deal on the foundation as well.

BILL PRESS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, let me just - look, let's try to put this in perspective, OK? And I mean I know that the Trump campaign is counting on Hillary to be indicted or, you know, lock her up or lock her up. It ain't going to happen, all right? But I want to tell you this.

RYAN: It's not even about that.

BALDWIN: Let - let - go ahead.

PRESS: Number one - number one - number one, it's very ironic, if not hypocritical, for Donald Trump to raise this issue. He gave $100,000 to the foundation. He must have thought that they did some good work at one point. And also he bragged about the fact that he paid to play. That's why he gave all this money, he said, to politicians because he then asked them for favors.

Having said that, let's remember a couple of things. Number one, there were 84 out of 100 - 85 out of 154 people that AP looked at. Doesn't count, as Bakari pointed out, thousands of other people she met with. Two, there was nothing illegal here about setting up meetings. And, three, there is no evidence at all - in fact we have tons of evidence that neither Bill nor Hillary Clinton did profit from these meetings -

BALDWIN: Right.

PRESS: Which Donald Trump claimed.

Having said that, I have to say, there is a perception problem.

BALDWIN: That's what I want to get to, yes.

PRESS: The perception of pay to play and the perception problem was bad at the State Department. It is inexcusable, could not happen at the White House, which is why I think eventually the decision is going to have to be made, despite all the great work it's done, to shut down the Clinton Foundation when she takes the oath of office. Not if.

RYAN: But, Brooke - Brooke -

BALDWIN: Bakari, on that, on the perception issue, I mean can you see that? And, right, so the question - and even if it was an issue - it was a conflict of issue in interest -

SELLERS: Oh -

BALDWIN: You know, a conflict of interest issue when she was being tapped to become secretary of state by the Obama administration. That was recognized then. The question is, you know, folks out on the street who may not totally understand all the amazing work that this foundation has done, they think, hang on a second -

SELLERS: Well, that's - BALDWIN: Hillary Clinton, is she trustworthy? How does she fix this, Bakari?

SELLERS: That is a - that is a perception problem, Brooke. And I will give that to you. And Bill Press laid that out just perfectly because it is - it is a perception problem. It's not one of illegality because that didn't exist. And, yes, it's very hard to push back and talk about the 9.5 million children that have access to HIV and AIDS medication because of the Clinton Foundation and all of the good work. But let me please point out to you one major difference. One is that the Clintons never ever profited from the Clinton Foundation. Not - zero dollars. That's first. And the second thing about it, the difference between Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump is that this is a non-profit. Donald Trump is going to have extremely difficult time, God forbid he ever becomes president, separating a for-profit Trump Enterprises from his presidency. That's the question that should be asked.

BOOTHE: Donald Trump wasn't the nation's top diplomat.

RYAN: Brooke, you've got to go back to the -

(CROSS TALK)

BALDWIN: Hold on. Hold on. Let's - I want to hear Ned. Ned, go ahead, as a Trump supporter, you get to respond.

RYAN: Brooke, here's the - here's the deal. OK, here's a couple things. Again, this AP story, there's a lot of other things that are percolating around there, a judge saying the State Department is going to have to, by September 23rd, decide how they're going to release those 15,000 documents. This all to say, this is about perception. It looks bad. This doesn't have anything to do with Democrat voters or Republican. This has to do with independent voters. And they're going to have to decide, do we actually trust Hillary? This looks suspicious. Does this look like pay to play? Is this influence peddling? I mean this is one of those things. This story is not going to go away. And as more and more people are starting to pay attention, especially post Labor Day, and these stories continue to happen, this is going to have an impact on independent voters' perception of Hillary. So this is really what this - is about, perception, independent voters deciding how they feel about Hillary.

BALDWIN: OK, OK, let me - let me - let me stay with you. Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. Ned, let me - let me, on perception, let me just pivot and talk more about Mr. Trump, because the question, right, he was supposed to have this immigration speech tomorrow. That's not happening for another - you know, who knows, couple of weeks. You know, he has said, you know, maintaining last night in Austin to a roaring crowd, I'm still going to build a wall. But his word, Ned, you know, softening, I will soften my stance on immigration. My question to you is, how specific? How will he do that specifically?

RYAN: Well, I mean I think there are a couple of things I think that he made clear that you have to say, OK, if there are illegal immigrants who have been - committed a violent crime, they have to be deported. What he has started to address is, what do you do with the illegal immigrants that have been here 10, 15, 20 years that have not committed a violent crime. I would like to see them actually propose a policy idea of saying, OK, we know that they've been here illegally. They should start paying an annual fine, call it 1,500 to 2,000, call it the blue card, that gives them some sort of legal status for seven to ten years and then they have to decide. It's a middle step because, listen, mass deportation of people that have been here for 15 to 20 years is going to be a very hard thing to sell. So I'd like to see him actually propose a middle step.

PRESS: No, it's not going to be a hard thing to sell. It's an impossible thing to do and you might as well admit it. Look, this - this is the thing about this. Donald Trump said -

RYAN: There's a nice middle step that he could do.

PRESS: Donald Trump says that he's going to - it's going to be a more humane policy. There is no humane way to deport 11 million people and he cannot - and he has no idea how he would do it. I find it stunning that almost Labor Day this campaign is so confused, they can't explain what their policy is or what their actions are going to be on Donald Trump's signature issue, number one. Number two, I can't believe that the Republican Party, which in 2012 knew they were losing and could never win the White House again because they were taking on the Latino community, has now totally reversed itself and basically its war on the fastest growing segment of the American electorate. I mean that is astounding. It is appalling. I think it's suicidal.

[14:25:31] BALDWIN: OK, we have to leave it. We are talking later in the show, though, about how Mr. Trump is meeting with African- Americans. It's a roundtable similar to that of his meeting over the weekend. For now - my goodness, it is almost Labor Day, isn't it?

PRESS: It is.

BALDWIN: Bill Press, Ned Ryan, Lisa Boothe, Bakari Sellers, thank you all so much.

PRESS: Seventy-six days.

BOOTHE: Thanks, Brooke.

SELLERS: Thanks, Brooke.

PRESS: Thanks, Brooke.

RYAN: Thanks, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Coming up next here, we'll get you back to politics, but we have to talk about Turkey. They are taking the fight to ISIS, to cross its own borders. Why this is such a significant step and what it could mean in the fight on terror, next.

Also, this devastating earthquake causing tremendous damage there in Italy. Just look at the faces hoar. Just extraordinary stories of survival coming out of Italy. We have a correspondent in the middle of it. We'll take you there live. You're watching CNN.

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