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Clinton, Trump Trade Barbs Over Bigotry; Maine Governor Leaves Expletive-Laced Voicemail to Lawmaker; First Funerals for Italy's Quake Victims Underway; Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired August 26, 2016 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:00:00] MOOS: Donald may say --

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Hillary Clinton is a bigot.

MOOS: But Trump is a spigot of startling statements. This woman's face was more mobile than her hands which only managed a feeble two claps. And when he's not provoking funny faces, Trump is no slouch at making his own.

Jeanne Moos, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: The next hour of CNN NEWSROOM begins right now.

Good morning, I'm Erica Hill, in today for Carol Costello. Thanks for being with us.

It just may be their most bitter fight yet. Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton trading barbs over bigotry. Each accusing the other of stoking the flames of racial tension. The two candidates delivering dueling speeches driving that point home. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: From the start, Donald Trump has built his campaign on prejudice and paranoia. He is taking hate groups mainstream. And helping a radical fringe take over the Republican Party.

TRUMP: Don't accuse decent Americans whose support this campaign, your campaign, of being racist, which we're not.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: That feud --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Not a good investment.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: That feud playing out as Trump continues to take heat over the lack of definition in his plan for immigration.

Jason Carroll is following the story from Manchester, New Hampshire. Jason, good morning.

JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: And good morning to you, Erica. I think most people would agree that Trump is very clear in terms of what he believes when it comes to race, what he thinks of Hillary Clinton. When it comes to race. But what many of his supporters and many of his critics are saying is Trump needs more clarity in terms of his beliefs and his policy when it comes to the issue of illegal immigration.

The campaign has been saying all along that Trump has been consistent in saying that there's no path to citizenship, no amnesty. But what's unclear at this point is what happens to the 11 million or so undocumented people who are living here in the United States under a Trump plan. Do all of them need to go? Can some of them stay?

Donald Trump tried to clarify, explain his message last night to CNN's Anderson Cooper.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: The 11 million who have not committed a crime --

TRUMP: No, no. We're then going to --

COOPER: There's going to be a path to legalization, is that right?

TRUMP: You know it's a process. You can't take 11 at one time and just say, boom, you're gone. We have to find where these people are. Most people don't even know where they are. Nobody even know if it's 11.

COOPER: So it's still --

TRUMP: It could be 30 and it could be five. Nobody knows what the number is.

COOPER: But if somebody hasn't committed a crime --

TRUMP: I'll tell you what we know. Let me explain.

COOPER: -- will they be deported?

TRUMP: Let me tell you what. We know the bad ones. We know where they are, who they are. We know the drug cartel people. We know the gangs and the heads of the gangs and the gang members. Those people are gone. That's a huge number.

COOPER: If they haven't committed a crime, is there going to be a path to legalization --

TRUMP: First thing we're going to do --

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: I'm talking about citizenship.

TRUMP: No, there's not a pass -- there is no path to legalization.

COOPER: You talked about paying taxes on Hannity.

TRUMP: Unless people leave the country -- well, when they come back in, if they come back in, then they can start paying taxes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CARROLL: Well, we'll get specifics on his immigration policy, Erica. As you know when he delivers that immigration policy speech next week in Phoenix, that's going to be happening on Wednesday -- Erica.

HILL: And we will be watching for it. Jason Carroll, appreciate it as always. Thank you.

Let's talk more about Trump's shifting stance on immigration now. Joining me, CNN political commentator and Washington correspondent for the "New Yorker" Ryan Lizza and director for the University of Virginia Center for Politics Larry Sabato.

Good to have both of you with us. I want to start off with this immigration plan because there are a number of questions in terms of what it is, whether or not it's shifted or changed or evolved, however you want to clarify it.

Larry, do you get the sense that there is a clear plan?

LARRY SABATO, DIRECTOR, CENTER FOR POLITICS, UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA: No. To me, his plan, as it now exists, is kind of a multiple choice, depending on the audience he's talking to or what he thinks when he wakes up that morning. He's trying to think through his own immigration plan which is something that most candidates do before the campaign begins. And if they're going to make a shift for the general election, they do it by the time of the convention so they can announce it then.

With Donald Trump, this is constantly evolving. And he's got to be careful that he doesn't upset his base because most of them are hard- liners. And yet if he's to have any chance to win, he has to win over a substantial number of people who are much more moderate and reasonable on the subject of immigration. It's very tough to do. Maybe we'll eventually arrive at Mitt Romney's solution of self- deportation.

HILL: Ryan, when you look at this -- oh, go ahead.

[10:05:02] RYAN LIZZA, WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT, THE NEW YORKER: Well, I was going to say Larry is joking about self-deportation. But if you listen really carefully to that clip that was just played, what I hear is a policy -- and it is kind of silly that we don't have a clear policy from the Trump campaign so we have to sort, you know, divine what the policy is from the outside. But it sounds like what people call touchback amnesty. In other words, you have to leave, which is where the self-deportation thing comes in, go back to -- well, just leave the United States. But then if you pay taxes and do some other things, you do have a pathway to legalization.

If you parse very carefully what he said in that clip with Anderson, that's what he's describing. Touchback amnesty. Leave the country, go back to your country of origin. Pay back taxes. And we'll give you a pathway to legalization.

If that is really what he means, and I admit that it's -- you know, it's like reading goat entrails at this point, then that would probably be a tough pill to swallow for a lot of his hardcore supporters who don't like amnesty of any kind.

HILL: And that's -- and that's the balance. We talked a little bit about this yesterday. Larry, you brought it up. It's the balance of not alienating those initial supporters. And a lot of them came to camp Trump because they liked that really hard-lined message that he started out with when he first became a candidate. And you have to balance that with of course the votes that he needs to get from people who are a little bit more moderate.

How is it being received, Ryan, in terms of an audience? The voters of 2016. We know the race isn't like one we've seen before. But when it companies to voters, are they wanting the same things? Do they need a concrete immigration plan to vote for someone? Are they looking at something else this time around?

LIZZA: Well, look, this is a very important issue to a lot of people. It's important to some voters because there's just a general interest in making sure that whoever's president has a sympathetic way of dealing with the 11 million people who are in this country. Some voters care about it for that reason. Other voters who are very personally touched by the immigration issue, especially many Hispanics, this is a threshold issue for a big chunk of that population, although there are lots of differences in the Hispanic community.

And electorally if you just stick with the Hispanic population, Mitt Romney got 27 percent of that vote. In most polls, Trump is struggling to hit 20 percent. The percentage of the electorate that will be Hispanic in 2016 will be more than it was in 2012. You just can't win the presidency if your numbers are that low. Then there are -- you know, we've talked a lot about college educated whites, especially college educated white women who don't like Trump's turning off so many nonwhite voters.

So that's another part of this. He's reaching out to Hispanics and to African-America because he's doing so poorly with his traditionally Republican constituency that doesn't like the way he's alienated those groups. So there are serious political implications for him in getting this right.

HILL: Larry, taking a look at the political issues and things that we do traditionally talk about during a campaign. Are there certain areas that both candidates are missing here? Could they be doing better, especially with some of the groups, voters, that they're trying to court, if they were more focused on the issues, and, if so, which ones?

SABATO: Well, stick to immigration for a second with Donald Trump. It's the very foundation of his candidacy. Go back to his announcement. What do we all remember from his announcement? Build the wall. And the immigration -- immigrants coming from Mexico are rapists and all the rest of it. That's the foundation of his campaign.

At the very least, I think people on both sides should be able to inspect a detailed plan that -- to use Ryan's wonderful phrase, we don't have to analyze as though they were goat entrails. That's what we're waiting for from Donald Trump. And here we are almost at Labor Day and we still don't have that plan.

For Hillary Clinton, it's a very different situation. She's got detailed plans, you know, numerous detailed plans on her Web site that haven't been presented over the years. She's really good at detail policy. Where she doesn't do well is connecting on a personal level with maybe voters. And that's something that she's going to have to confront during the general election campaign.

HILL: Larry, Ryan, stick around. We have much more to discuss. But I take a quick break. Still to company, we'll talk a little bit more about Hillary Clinton ramping up her attacks on Donald Trump. And a new ad aimed at black voters in key swing states. Will it convince the undecideds?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:13:55] HILL: An eyebrow-raising moment in Maine involving Republican Governor Paul LePage and a Democratic state lawmaker and accusations of racism. All of it boiling over in an expletive-laced voicemail.

CNN's Chris Frates is live in Washington with more on this. Boy, talk about some strong words in this one.

CHRIS FRATES, CNN INVESTIGATIONS UNIT CORRESPONDENT: Yes, some real strong words, Eric. Republican Governor Paul LePage. He's making news again for controversial comments. This time, according to the "Portland Press Herald" LePage left that expletive-laced voicemail for a Democratic state lawmaker after a television reporter appeared to suggest that the lawmaker, a guy named Representative Gattine called the governor a racist.

Now that was a charge that Gattine later denied. But take a listen to this phone message that the Republican governor left the Democratic state lawmaker.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. PAUL RICHARD LEPAGE (R), MAINE: Mr. Gattine, this is Governor Paul Richard LePage. I would like to talk to you about your comments about my being a racist, you (EXPLETIVE DELETED) sucker. And I want to talk to you. You want -- I want you to prove that I'm a racist.

[10:15:03] I've spent my life helping black people and you little son of a (EXPLETIVE DELETED), socialist (EXPLETIVE DELETED) sucker, you -- I need you to just friggin -- I want you to record this and make it public because I am after you. Thank you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FRATES: Now according to the paper, LePage later invited reporters over to the governor's mansion to expand on the subject, saying he wished that he could challenge the lawmaker to a duel. Now LePage said he would point his gun, quote, "right between his eyes because he's a snot-nosed little runt," and he has not done a damn thing since he's been in the legislature to help move the state forward.

Now LePage who's a strong Trump supporter made headlines earlier this year when he suggested that black men from New York and Connecticut come to Maine to sell heroin and impregnate young white girls. And that's a comment he doubled down on earlier this week when he said that 90 percent of the drug dealers in Maine are black and Hispanic people, Erica.

HILL: Wow. Talk about a lot in there. Chris Frates, appreciate you laying it all out for us. Thank you.

Over the last week, Donald Trump has been asking the following question to black voters. What do you have to lose? Today, Hillary Clinton has an answer. She says everything.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: What do you have to lose? You're living in poverty. Your schools are no good. You have no jobs. Look at my African-American over here.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Trump management was charged with discriminating against African-Americans and breaking federal law.

TRUMP: I have a great relationship with the blacks. I have -- I've always had a great relationship with the blacks. What the hell do you have to lose?

CLINTON: I'm Hillary Clinton and I approve this message.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: Back with me now, Larry Sabato and Ryan Lizza. Good to have both of you back with us. I mean, we see that ad. There's been so much talk on both sides. And frankly even just in the last 24 hours. Really feels in many ways to be an unprecedented mudslinging campaign between two candidates. At the end of the day, it's about how voters respond to this. It feels like uncharted territory, Larry. Could it backfire?

SABATO: Well, I think it is backfiring if the goal by Donald Trump is to get a larger minority vote. Look, four years ago, Mitt Romney got less than 20 percent of all minority groups put together. That is President Obama got more than 80 percent. The shocking thing is that this year Hillary Clinton is going to do better, in my view, than President Obama did. She's going to get well above 80 percent of all minorities. That means the only way, the only way Donald Trump can win is with a large majority of whites and a large turnout among whites and it probably isn't possible.

There are loads of whites, white women, college-educated whites, younger whites, who are simply not going to vote for Donald Trump. So good luck with that.

Ryan mentioned earlier, and I think correctly, that what Trump is really trying to do with this new sudden outreach to minorities is to reassure some of the more moderate Republicans who are very uncomfortable being associated with a candidate who's disliked so intensely by minority Americans.

HILL: And it's interesting you say that because Donald Trump is really starting to hit back on some of the criticism that he's faced. We even heard him talking about when he was of course calling Hillary Clinton a bigot. He's turning around and saying, look, stop painting my supporters with such a broad brush. Here's a little bit more of that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: It's a movement, folks, like they've never seen before. And going to accuse decent Americans who support this campaign, your campaign, of being racists, which we're not. It's the oldest play in the Democratic playbook.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: So Donald Trump coming out and saying this is a Democratic play and this is on the heels of course a separate ad from Hillary Clinton where she's got Klan members expressing support for Donald Trump.

Ryan, will either one of these have an impact?

LIZZA: Look, I think that his response to that is shrewd, right? There are plenty of people who support Donald Trump obviously who are not racist. And by his comeback here with Clinton is oh, she is just painting all of you, the millions of people who like him for one reason or another, as racist. I think that is a way to sort of keep those folks in the fold and not, you know, and not response to Clinton's ad.

But, look, as Larry pointed out, the key to victory for Hillary Clinton no matter who she had faced, whether it was Donald Trump or a more traditional Republican, was going to be to reassemble what sometimes political pundits is called the Obama coalition, and that means racking up very, very large margins among nonwhite voters.

[10:20:15] That was the Clinton playbook from before she started running for office. Donald Trump has made that plan a whole lot easier because he's alienated some of the same groups that Hillary Clinton needs to do very well with. So if you just look at what her strategy was in the beginning and how it's playing out so far, it's basically going according to plan and he's playing -- he's way behind, you know, starting in August and for the first time trying to reach out to Hispanic voters and African-American voters, that is -- you know, he's way behind that 8 Ball.

On the other hand, as, you know, he says this to African-American voters, it's also true of his campaign, what does he have to lose? He's at 1 percent with African-American voters in some of these polls. He doesn't have any -- he can't go much lower.

HILL: Does Hillary Clinton have anything to lose, Larry, by turning negative, by -- you know, by responding to Donald Trump so forcefully and not talking as much about policies or plans or concrete ideas?

SABATO: Well, it's difficult to run a campaign on a high plain when your opponent is very much on the low-low. Having said that, she has serious problems being perceived as dishonest and trustworthy and more likable. The more negative you are in the campaign, the less likable you're going to appear to independents and to supporters of your own.

Yes, there is a cost to it. On the other hand, an attack unanswered is an attack agreed to. I don't see how she has any choice but to be very tough on at least some of the attack.

HILL: Larry Sabato, Ryan Lizza, appreciate you both being here this morning. Thank you.

LIZZA: Hey, thank you.

HILL: Still to come, central Italy shaking as countless aftershocks rock areas of devastation. We have a live report from just near the epicenter next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:26:32] HILL: The first funerals in central Italy are now under way. Just days after a deadly earthquake hit a popular summer vacation area. The death toll stands at 267.

It's unclear how many people may still be trapped under mounds of concrete and brick. The window to find more survivors alive, though, is closing.

CNN's Frederik Pleitgen has been covering the story from the quake's epicenter and joins us again today.

Fred, what can you tell us at this hour?

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Erica. Well, I can tell you that the authorities here are very well aware of the fact that that window is closing. And I want to get out of your way real quick and show you what's going on here. You can see that you have these rescue vehicles. They're trying to move as many as possible into these very narrow streets. And you know it's one of the big problems that they have is that with these little ancient Italian towns, that the roads here are so narrow that it's very difficult for them to maneuver these large vehicles in there that they need to be able to get people out, to be able to get some of that heavy equipment in.

And so it's certainly something where they know it's a race against time. We see an ambulance going past right now. They know it's a race against time. They know they have to be quick but at the same time, they're working against these very difficult circumstances.

One of the things they use for instance is these dogs that are actually going to that area right now. We see that all the time. They're bringing more and more dogs in. It's one of the main assets that they use to try and still find first of all people who might be alive under the rubble but also to find bodies under the rubble as well.

Now one of the things that they have been doing here, one of the big problems that they have been having here is the aftershocks. And one the things that the mayor has told us just recently, he said that the aftershocks have been so bad that they've cut two of the main access roads here to this town of Amatrice and they say if the third and final access road is cut, this town is cut off from getting any sort of aid.

Now the Italians would probably find a way to get help into here but it certainly would make things much more difficult. So the aftershocks are a problem. The terrain is a problem. The destruction itself of course is a problem. And therefore yes, they are still trying to find people who are alive. Certainly it's very difficult for them.

As you've noted, the Italian prime minister touring the area. And he is going to visit some of those funerals that are going to be taking place tomorrow. Of course, one funeral already taking place today, Erica.

HILL: It's a tough scene that you said there. Last thing they need of course are more hurdles at this hour. Fred Pleitgen for us this morning, thank you.

Good morning, I'm Erica Hill, in today for Carol Costello. Thanks for being with us.

Donald Trump sending mixed messages as Hillary Clinton sends an appeal to Republicans. This as a new national poll from Quinnipiac University shows Clinton leading Trump by seven points. Now when it comes to a head-to-head matchup, Clinton tops Trump by 10 points. Even though Trump is trailing in most polls, his campaign manager shaking it off, telling the UK's Channel 4 News this week, "Donald Trump performs consistently better in online polling where a human being is not talking to another human being about what he or she may do in the elections. It's become socially desirable especially if you're a college educated person in the U.S. to say that you're against Donald Trump. The hidden Trump vote in this country is a very significant proposition."

So could the so-called undercover Trump supporter significantly impact the election?

With me now, Trump supporter and former lieutenant governor of New York, Betsy McCoy and CNN political commentator and Hillary Clinton supporter Hilary Rosen.

Good to have both of you with us. So Becky, first to you, we hear from Kellyanne Conway about the so-called undercover voters. Give us a sense. How many people are we talking about here? What's the real potential impact?

BETSY MCCOY, TRUMP SUPPORTER: Well, I'm predicting that among those undercover voters is a sizable part of the African-American community because Donald Trump is offering them a lifeline --