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Two Men Charged In Killing NBA Star's Cousin; Trump Wavers On Setting Up "Deportation Force"; Racism, Bigotry Claims Fly Across Campaign Trail; Pence: Special Prosecutor Needed For Clinton Foundation; Clinton Blasts Trump's Attack On Foundation; Turkish Warplanes Pound ISIS Targets Inside Syria; Unlicensed Bus Driver Kills Two In Louisiana Crash; Pence Unleashes Flurry Of Criticisms On Media. Aired 2-3p ET
Aired August 28, 2016 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.
FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Fredricka Whitfield. Thanks so much for watching. We start this hour with breaking news in the murder of NBA star Dwyane Wade's cousin. Two brothers are locked up right now, charged with killing Nykea Aldridge. Aldridge was shot at the head while she was walking and pushing her newborn in a stroller on Friday. She died a short time later at the hospital. Authorities say she was not the intended victim. Police say Darwin Sorells Jr. and Darren Sorells were shooting at another man when Aldridge was caught in the cross fire.
Moments ago, Chicago Police talked about the arrest and the frustration about the cycle of gun violence in their city.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
EDDIE JOHNSON, CHICAGO POLICE SUPERINTENDENT: When will enough be enough? How often do we have to stand at a podium like this, demanding from our judicial and policy partners some type of resolution?
This tragedy isn't just noteworthy because Miss Aldridge has a famous family member. It's noteworthy because these two offenders are the prime example of the challenge we face here in Chicago with repeat gun offenders that don't care who they shoot, don't care whose life they take and clearly, clearly, don't fear the consequences of their actions.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WHITFIELD: CNN's Rachel Crane joins us now outside a vigil for Aldridge with more detail on the arrest. Rachel, what more do we know?
RACHEL CRANE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Fred, the police are characterizing this as a brazen attack that happened in broad daylight. The incident occurred on Friday in broad daylight at 3:00 P.M. In a press conference this morning, as you pointed out, the police said that they had made arrests in this case brothers of Darwin and Darren Sorells have been arrested and charged with murder and attempted murder.
The police went on to characterized these brothers as career felons, both were out on parole. Darren, the youngest brother, was on parole for gun charges. He was under electronic surveillance. But legally, at the time, he was not wearing his electronic bracelet because he was supposed to be looking for a job, a fact the police are very frustrated by.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHNSON: Darren Sorells was involved in a murder, not only while he was on parole, but while he was wearing a home monitoring bracelet. I want all of you to think about what I just said and ask what that tells you. It should tell you that it's time to stop talking and to get serious and take action when it comes to how we sentence our repeat gun offenders. I'm frustrated. You should be frustrated. All Chicagoan should be frustrated.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CRANE: The police went on to elaborate on those frustrations. They pointed out that for every hour in 2016; 6,000 guns have been recovered in the Chicago area. Behind me this afternoon, a vigil will be held for Nykea, her family, friends, loved one coming together to honor her life. She leaves behind four children and will be greatly missed, Fred.
WHITFIELD: And then Rachel, you know, secondary to the fact that Nykea was killed, did investigators say anything more about the circumstances? What was happening? Why was there this gunfire in the first place that she would end up being caught in the cross fire?
CRANE: Well, the police pointed out that she was not the intended target. That there was a for-hire driver that was the intended target. He was driving some women to the area. They said that he did not look like he was from the area and that's what caught the Sorells' brothers attention that they had exchanged looks and that they chased this driver down the streets. And that's when they opened fire.
The police also said that they could not have made these arrests without his cooperation. So he was played an integral role for those charges being made, Fred.
WHITFIELD: All right, Rachel Crane, thank you so much.
All right, on to the campaign trail. Donald Trump still trying to clarify exactly what his immigration policy is. An event for veterans in Des Moines, Iowa, he tackled the subject again. But this time, tried to narrow down who would be deported when he takes office.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: On day one, I'm going to begin swiftly removing criminal illegal immigrants from this country.
(END VIDEO CLIP) WHITFIELD: Trump's remarks have critics saying it's a shift from his original plan of using a deportation force to remove all undocumented immigrants from the U.S. But Trump's running mate, Indiana Governor Mike Pence, says Trump's position has not changed at all. He sat down for an exclusive interview on CNN's State of the Union.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Governor Pence, good to see you again.
GOV. MIKE PENCE (R-IN), VICE PRSIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Thanks, Jake. Good to see you.
TAPPER: So let's start with this issue, the estimated 11 or so million undocumented immigrants currently in the United States. This is what Mr. Trump promised back in November, take a listen.
TRUMP: We're going to have a deportation force. And you're going to do it humanely --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are they getting ripped out of their homes? No.
TRUMP: They're going back where they came. If they came from a certain country, they're going to be brought back to their country. That's the way it's supposed to be.
TAPPER: So Mr. Trump has been saying that on day one, the violent undocumented immigrants will leave the country. But what about the rest? What happens to the other 11 or so million, however many there are, will there be a deportation force removing these individuals from the United States?
PENCE: Well, first off, let's be very clear, nothing has changed about Donald Trump's position on dealing with the illegal immigration. He put this issue at the center of this presidential campaign in the Republican Primaries. And his position and his principles have been absolutely consistently. We're going to secure the border. We're going to build a wall, have a physical barrier. We're going to enforce the laws of this country and the sanctuary cities implement e- verify. And we will have a mechanism for dealing with people in this country that you heard the word 'humanely' again. It's going to be fair. It's going to be tough. But there will be no path to legalization, no path to citizenship, unless people leave the country. He said that very consistently.
The contrast with Hillary Clinton who supports amnesty, open borders, who wants to implement executive amnesty again on day one, even though the supreme court of the United States rejected it. And Hillary Clinton who wants to increase refugees from the terrorist-torn country of Syria by 550 percent, the choice could not be more clear for the American people. Donald Trump has been completely consistent in his positions, Jake.
TAPPER: Except on this issue, I understand everything you're saying there, but the one issue that you didn't really address is whether or not the 11 or 12 million undocumented immigrants will be removed by a deportation force as you heard Mr. Trump saying in that clip from November of last year. Is that policy still operative?
PENCE: Well, what you heard him describe there in his usual, plain- spoken American way was a mechanism, not a policy. I mean, you're going to hear more detail in the next two weeks that lays out all the policies. But there will be no change in the principle here that Donald Trump wants to make it clear to the American people that while Hillary Clinton is committed to open borders and amnesty and executive amnesty and more of the same that is really harmed our economy. And frankly as he said with regards to dangerous individuals in this country, has cost American lives.
You know, when I was in Iowa, I met with Sarah Root's family. The heartbreak of Sarah Root's story and other stories of families whose children have lost their lives to people who are in this country, dangerous individuals, who are caught up in this broken system and then escape justice as the man that claimed her life did. It's going end under the administration of Donald Trump.
TAPPER: I get that the violent illegal immigrants will be removed from the country. But what I'm not hearing and I'm wondering for people out there -- and look, it's not just the liberal media, right? It's also conservatives. It's Rush Limbaugh. It's Governor Sarah Palin. It's other people who want Donald Trump to win, who are saying; wow, it sounds like he's really backing away from this deportation force removing 11 million. And right now, Governor. You're not saying. You're not pledging that there will be a removal of all undocumented immigrants. You're not saying that.
PENCE: No. What I'm saying, Jake, what I've said to you a minute ago and I want to be very clear, there will be no path to legalization, no path to citizenship. People that want to gain legal status, you heard Donald Trump say again and again, will have to leave the country.
TAPPER: But what about the millions in this country right now? What happens to them?
PENCE: Well, I think Donald Trump will articulate what we do with the people who are here, but I promise you --
TAPPER: Well, he already has articulated.
PENCE: -- Donald Trump is more concerned about the American people, American citizens, people who are here legally, people that are struggling in this economy. You got a family in Ohio. The dad is working two jobs and mom has a side job. They're trying to make ends meet. They haven't seen their real personal income go up in 10 to 15 years. And this flood of illegal immigration has contributed mightily to depressing wages in this country and denying jobs and opportunities to Americans.
TAPPER: That's why I'm asking --
PENCE: I know the media wants to focus on that one issue. Donald Trump will articulate a policy about how we deal with that population. But I promise you, he is going to remain completely focused on American citizens and people who are here legally and how we get this thing working --
TAPPER: I don't understand why --
PENCE: -- people who play by the rules.
TAPPER: I don't understand why it's the fault of the media focusing on an issue that you're crediting Donald Trump for bringing to the fore.
PENCE: Yes.
TAPPER: The idea is Mr. Trump won the Primaries in no small way because he had this very forceful position saying all 11 or 12 million undocumented immigrants will be forced to leave this country. Now, you right this minute are not saying that that's the policy. You're saying he's going to be unveiling it in the next few weeks, it's 72 days to the election.
PENCE: Well, the way you characterize his position is one thing. I think he's been completely --
TAPPER: We just ran the clip.
PENCE: Jake, he's been completely consistent in the principles that he's articulated. Nobody was talking about illegal immigration when Donald Trump entered this campaign. He was attacked from day one for putting the whole issue of the violence that is derived from certain individuals that come into this country illegally on the table.
He's made it clear. We're going to secure our borders. We're going to build a wall. We're going to enforce the laws of this country, stand up and uphold the constitution of the United States of America. But what you see going on right now, and I think at a certain level, it's very refreshing because it's the Donald Trump that I see everyday.
You should see a CEO at work. You see someone who is engaging the American people, listening to the American people, he's hearing from all sides. But I promise you, he is a decisive leader. He will stand on the principles that have underpinned his commitment to end illegal immigration in this country. And that's what people will learn more about in the days ahead.
But let's be clear. Hillary Clinton supports open borders, amnesty, and even wants to increase Syrian refugees to this country by 550 percent. You couldn't have a more clear choice between Donald Trump and I who will end illegal immigration in this country and Hillary Clinton who will pursue more of the same executive amnesty, open borders, which the American people are sick and tired.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WHITFIELD: All right, much more of that interview still to come including, what happens to the children of undocumented immigrant in this country under a possible Trump Presidency. We're back in a moment. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WHITFIELD: All right, welcome back. We've heard Donald Trump shift his stance on immigration from going from deporting all undocumented immigrants to now just "Criminal Illegal Immigrants". But what about the children of those immigrants born in this country? Here's more of Jake Tapper's exclusive interview with Trump's running mate, Governor Mike Pence.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: Let's turn to the children born in the United States to undocumented immigrants. Donald Trump said last year that these children, it's about 4.5 million of them, are not citizens. Take a listen.
TRUMP: I don't think they have American citizenship. We have to start a process where we take back our country. Our country is going to hell.
TAPPER: Is it still the position of the Trump-Pence Campaign that children born in this country -- in this country to undocumented immigrants are not U.S. citizens?
PENCE: Well, I think the whole question of anchor babies, as it's known, the whole question of citizenship of natural born Americans is a subject for the future. I think the American people ought to ask that we look at our whole immigration system and see whether or not that works and makes sense. But under the laws of today in the United States of America, I mean what Donald Trump was referring to is this is part of the issue that we need to deal within this country.
But look, I have to tell you, he is a man who speaks his mind. And he has put this issue front and center with the American people. And I have to tell you, I know how the media loves to come in and loves to, you know, divide the issues and frankly, I think, not you personally, Jake, but a lot like to see if they can drive wedges between people that support Donald Trump.
The truth of the matter is, as I'm traveling across the country and with Donald Trump and for Donald Trump, the American people hear him loud and clear. Hillary Clinton is committed to amnesty and open borders and more of the policies that have harmed our economy, harmed American families and in some cases resulted in tragedy.
Donald Trump is absolutely committed to securing our borders, having e-verify system, standing by the constitution and reforming the immigration system in a way that works for American people.
TAPPER: I want to turn to Hillary Clinton and some of the really tough charges going back and forth between your campaign and her campaign. She said this week Donald Trump is helping a radical fringe take over the Republican Party. And take a listen to what your counterpart, Senator Tim Kaine, had to say just on Friday.
SEN. TIM KAINE (D-VA), VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Ku Klux Klan values, David Duke values, Donald Trump values are not American values.
TAPPER: What's your response to Senator Kaine?
PENCE: I think Senator Kaine's comments, Hillary Clinton's comments on Thursday night sound desperate to me. I mean to be honest with you. I don't talk a lot about the polls, Jake, but I know the polls are all closing up. And the fact that you see Democrats and Hillary Clinton and her running mate rolling out the same old playbook of racial divisiveness sounds a little bit to me like an act of desperation.
I mean look, the American people are sick and tired of politicians who seek to divide the people of this country to unite their supporters.
TAPPER: But Donald Trump called Hillary -- he called Hillary Clinton a bigot.
PENCE: Donald Trump has been reaching out --
TAPPER: Well you just accused her of dividing people. He accused her of being a bigot.
PENCE: Well, look, and that was on the day that Hillary Clinton literally condemned, not just Donald Trump, by the same terms, but also millions of Americans who long for a better future.
TAPPER: You think she was calling all Trump supporters racists?
PENCE: I think she was calling millions of Americans around this country who believe we can make America great again, who believe that Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama's policies have weakened America's place in the world and stifled America's economy, she's put some sort of a racist intention on those Americans. I think that's deeply offensive.
But here's the thing, the American people see right through it these days. And what you have in Donald Trump is someone who's reaching out, speaking boldly from the party of Lincoln, particularly to African-Americans and Latinos in this country and saying, it doesn't have to be this way. It can be better.
I mean, think of the heartbreak in these communities to be living in our inner cities, which many African-American families for now, generations, have been in neighborhoods with failing schools, unsafe streets, no jobs and opportunities. I mean, we're standing today on the 53rd anniversary of the 'I have a dream' speech. And Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. was one of the heroes of my youth. I walked across the Edmund Pettus bridge with John Lewis on the 45th anniversary of Bloody Sunday.
I think the Progress and the Civil Rights Movement is one of the great accomplishments in America.
TAPPER: So I understand that that means a lot to you the reason --
PENCE: But look at the reality -- look at the reality and the memory community today in many of our cities, I was walking through neighborhoods in Indianapolis just a few short weeks ago before this opportunity came into my life with Reverend Charles Harrison, part of the Ten-Point Coalition. He stand with families on their front porch as they will tell you the schools are failing and they won't give us educational choice. The streets aren't safe. And we get no change. And there's no jobs.
Donald Trump believes we can make America great again for every American regardless of race or creed or color. And the only answer Hillary Clinton and her running mate have is more of the same kind of racial divisiveness and racial attacks and I really think it's beneath the (inaudible) --
TAPPER: With all due respect, Sir, the reason that Tim Kaine said what he said is because David Duke is supporting your campaign. Take a listen.
DAVID DUKE, AMERICAN WHITE NATIONALIST: I'm overjoyed to see Donald Trump and most Americans embrace most of the issues that I've championed for years.
TAPPER: That must really bother you?
PENCE: It does really bother me. And Donald Trump made it clear repeatedly in this week and not only does he denounce David Duke but we don't want the support of people who think like David Duke.
Look, people see the choreography, Jake, you and I have known each other a while. Hillary Clinton -- not on that but on the two speeches. Hillary Clinton has a really tough week, right? 15,000 e- mails coming out. I mean you have the Clinton Foundation. The more and more of the cascade of controversies coming out of here with the Clintons, you know, ducking and weaving and not answering questions more than 250 days since the press conference.
So all of a sudden, here it comes. They roll out the politics of division with a speech Thursday night and then her running mate comes out with those outrageous charges.
I mean the fact that a contemptible individual like that supports my running mate is no more relevant than the fact that the father of a man who killed 49 people in Orlando, Florida was cheering Hillary Clinton at one of her rallies.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WHITFIELD: All right. So much more from that interview including what pence has to say about the Clinton Foundation coming up later on in the hour. Next, hear what our panel of experts has to say about Pence's comments.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WHITFIELD: All right. Before the break, you heard Donald Trump's running mate, Indiana Governor Mike Pence weigh in on Trump's plans for illegal immigration. So let's talk about it with senior adviser for the Trump Campaign Boris Epshteyn and Democratic Strategist and Hillary Clinton's supporter, Taryn Rosenkranz. Good to see both of you.
BORIS EPSHTEYN, TRUMP CAMPAIGN ADVISER: Good afternoon.
WHITFIELD: OK. So Boris, you first. So what is happening to Trump's, you know, plan on immigration? Would you describe it as evolving, changing? Is it shifting? Is it any of that?
EPSHTEYN: It's exactly what Governor Pence said. First, we will make sure that all illegal immigrants or criminals are deported. We will end sanctuary cities that have caused the murders of American like Kate Steinle and Sarah Root. We will make sure that e-verify is on the place. From that on, enforce the laws that are on the books in accordance with the constitution and humanely which is exactly what Donald Trump has said. Now contrast that -- hold on. Now contrast that --
WHITFIELD: Right. But is that a change? Is that an evolution or is it just more detail now?
EPSHTEYN: Fredricka, the key is here to contrast what Donald Trump has said and is saying with Hillary Clinton, who wants to have amnesty, who wants to -- who wants to swing the borders wide up, have a 550 percent increase in Syrian Refugees into this country. And get rid of America as we know it.
So Donald Trump will keep America safe, America's jobs in place. And Hillary Clinton will do more to harm America just as she's done in her 40 years in public office.
WHITFIELD: So Taryn, are those fair comparisons to make? Is it fair enough to say concretely, this is how Clinton sees it, this is how Donald Trump sees it?
TARYN ROSENKRANZ, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: No. And I don't think there's an anything and consistent really coming out of Trump's Campaign about immigration except for hate and divisiveness and sort of embracing this hate movement as Hillary Clinton called it earlier in the week.
And I think that's really -- they can do and the governor can try and say and spin and I know we had Governor Christie out there talking as well and trying to make, you know, it seemed a little more palatable to the American people. But at the end of the day, I think we've seen the true Donald Trump over and over and over again. I think we all know.
EPSHTEYN: But what's Hillary Clinton's immigration policy, Taryn? Is it not amnesty?
WHITFIELD: Well (inaudible) Donald Trump. This is the (inaudible) campaign isn't really the pressure on Donald Trump to reveal because this is how he unveiled his --
ROSENKRANZ: (Inaudible), right. EPSHTEYN: No, Fredricka. The press should be on both sides. The
press should be on both sides to say what their policy is. So we're going to talk about what our policy is now. What is Hillary Clinton's policy? It's 100-day amnesty plan. It's a 550 percent increase in Syrian Refugees. It's making sure America is less safe now than it was when she became Secretary of State. And going forward, it's making sure we don't have a country anymore.
Donald Trump will make sure that America stays America. And Hillary Clinton's plans will make sure that we have illegal immigrants coming into this country at will.
WHITFIELD: So Boris, later on this week, it has been said that Donald Trump would reveal more in the immigration plan this week, still unclear whether that is still, you know, going to take place. But what more detail would be revealed if what you spelled out, you believe, is common knowledge to most?
EPSHTEYN: Again, you will see details on the policy as we've laid out. I'm making sure that criminals, illegal immigrants or criminals are deported, making sure sanctuary cities are ended, making sure we have e-verify. And then dealing with the remaining illegal immigrants in a way that's humane and within the laws on the books now and in the future.
But again, I would really ask anybody out there to ask Hillary Clinton and her campaign staffers, which by the way, are not on TV very much, what is Hillary Clinton's plan. And it's 100-day amnesty. It's making sure that our borders are swung wide open and illegal immigrants and those who want to hurt our country come in at will.
Now don't forget, Donald Trump is going to build the wall and Mexico will pay for the wall. Hillary Clinton wants to make sure that not only do we not have a wall but we don't have a border.
WHITFIELD: So Taryn, what is the feeling in the Clinton camp as to whether Hillary Clinton feels that she has to match an immigration plan with Donald Trump, given that that has been the cornerstone of his campaign.
ROSENKRANZ: Right. And I do think -- I mean even if you go on hillaryclinton.com, right, like you can find all the details you can about her immigration policies and what she wants to do.
EPSHTEYN: What are those?
ROSENKRANZ: She's been open about, talking about them. And I think the point here that you're making and that we're making is that the pressure is on Donald Trump to provide those details if this is the cornerstone of his entire campaign. And not just that. That if he's going to go and say and try to soften and then have somebody else try to clarify and he's gone back and forth. I mean, we can't, you know -- Jake played the tape for him, and then Governor Pence is saying, no, nothing's changed when obviously things have changed.
And we're not answering the specifics. It's a great opportunity for them to sidestep the questions that they're asking, the same way he's yelling over what I'm trying to say.
The real truth is, is that Donald Trump, the only thing that has been consistent is this movement towards hate, a hate movement, if you will, across the country and trying to make sure that that is what is happening --
EPSHTEYN: So you're saying 14 million voters in the GOP primary are --
WHITFIELD: All right, let's talk a little bit more about that, the style differences, the context in which these things are being conveyed from both campaigns in a short moment. We'll take a short break for now, Taryn and Boris, we'll return.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WHITFIELD: All right. Welcome back. Vice Presidential Candidate Mike Pence calling for an independent special prosecutor to investigate foreign donations to the Clinton Foundation.
Pence telling CNN's Jake Tapper that he doesn't know of any specific favors that Clinton provided donors while secretary of state, but believes donations helped donors gain access.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GOVERNOR MIKE PENCE (R), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: So this becomes a conduit for people to gain access and gaining access is a favor, Jake.
JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST, "STATE OF THE UNION": Mr. Trump's foundation gave $100,000 or so to the Clinton Foundation. Was he trying to gain access? Was he trying to gain a favor?
PENCE: I think Donald Trump's made it very clear, through the course of his career, he's supported a broad range of initiatives and policies. Just this last week, he contributed $100,000 to a little church in Baton Rouge, Louisiana.
TAPPER: You're not comparing that to Mr. Trump's Foundation giving money to the Clinton Foundation?
PENCE: Well, I'm just saying Donald Trump, I know we want to make Donald Trump the issue on every issue --
TAPPER: No, you're talking about the Clinton Foundation. I'm talking about the Clinton Foundation.
PENCE: I'm talking about foreign donors and corporate donors to the Clinton Foundation, who the "Associated Press" this week was able to confirm, were more than half the meetings, private meetings the secretary of state granted during her tenure.
[14:35:05]For the Clintons to say that if she's elected president, they would recognize a conflict of interest in the Clinton Foundation, and so would be stepping away from it, former President Clinton. If it would be a conflict of interest when she's president of the United States, why wasn't raising money from foreign donors a conflict of interest when she was secretary of state of the United States of America?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WHITFIELD: All right, let's bring back our panel now, Boris and Taryn. So quickly, before I ask you about the Clinton follow up on what Mike Pence was saying.
Let's finish where we left off, because, Boris, Mike Pence, in that interview with Jake said Clinton's words have been deeply offensive, how she's described him in his campaign.
But wasn't it Trump who set the tone during the primaries, particularly describing people as murderers, rapists, liars, even crooked?
BORIS EPSHTEYN, SENIOR ADVISER, TRUMP CAMPAIGN: No, Hillary Clinton Is the one who's gone on the complete offensive, because she's paranoid and her team is paranoid --
WHITFIELD: But he didn't do those things?
EPHSTEYN: David Plouffe just today called Donald Trump a psychopath on "Meet The Press." If I said anything close to that about Hillary Clinton, this building would spontaneously combust. It's obvious that the Democrats are nervous.
Because people like Gilbert (inaudible), an international criminal has given millions of dollars to the Clintons. Gilbert (inaudible) has ties to Hezbollah (inaudible) to the United States yet (inaudible) was asking for meeting for him with secretary of state.
So that is why over 70 percent of people don't trust the Clintons. That is why the Clintons should be nowhere close to not just the White House, but Washington, D.C. overall because of all the pay-to-play and fraud they've been involved in for ages.
WHITFIELD: (Inaudible) both candidates to go (inaudible) of this mudslinging of language, if you will.
TARYN ROSENKRANZ, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: I think the American people are certainly sick and tired of hearing from Trump, the name-calling, the bullying. You remember sort of that ad a while back.
You know, I think it's really profound that it's still going on and I do think it's dangerous for both sides to go too far into it. But I also think you have to defend yourself and I think that's what ending up happening is that you do get in these back and forths when you've been called a name.
And you do want to defend yourself and go out there on the offensive, as well. So this may be a negative campaign, but I think it's certainly clear that it came from Trump's from the very beginning -- EPHSTEYN: Tim Kaine likened all Donald Trump and his supporters to
the KKK, which is completely ridiculous and so out of line and deeply offensive. Tim Kaine has been nowhere to be seen otherwise in this campaign trail and just to pop up and make that horrible statement.
WHITFIELD: Well, we just saw him actually yesterday in Florida.
EPHSTEYN: I guess you found him. Congratulations.
WHITFIELD: So what about this Clinton Foundation issue. I mean, Hillary Clinton did say that there would be some changes if elected president. So you know, Mike Pence even asked the question, Taryn.
So if those changes would be necessary if she were elected president, why weren't those changes already made be it as secretary of state or as a candidate?
ROSENKRANZ: Well, I think it's unprecedented, right? We have somebody in this situation, if she does become president of the United States, this really is something that's unprecedented before, so therefore would warrant that.
And I think as far as happening right now, it is a charity that does good work and that was depending upon these donations and the planning and so, it does take some time. And I don't think that that's unreasonable from them.
And I also think that we have seen, there's been no smoking gun, no evidence of wrongdoing, and we've really seen that this is a charity that's helped over 11 million people with life-saving medicine.
I mean, it's literally got an "a" rating from Charity Watch, from the American Institute of Philanthropy. They are trying very hard to find something wrong with this -- and meanwhile, Trump hasn't disclosed anything about his for-profit businesses.
WHITFIELD: What assurances might Donald Trump make if he were elected president that there wouldn't be a similar kind of microscope, you know --
EPHSTEYN: Of course, I'm going to respond to what Taryn just said.
WHITFIELD: -- on the Clinton Foundation to the kinds of business practices that he's had and whether there would be any kind of pay for play?
EPHSTEYN: Thanks. First, I'm going to respond to what Taryn said. We do agree on one thing, it isn't unprecedented. All the fraud and pay-to-play is completely unprecedented. Using bleach (inaudible) to bleach her e-mail server, lying to Congress about turning over her e- mails. Having Gilbert (inaudible) someone who is a convicted money launderer be a major donor and he lobbied on behalf of, and also having somebody like --
WHITFIELD: OK, you already made that point, but what about the answer to Donald Trump, how would he assure -- give similar assurances to the American people if he were elected president that there wouldn't be a similar pay-for-play accusation that is being, you know, put upon the Clinton Foundation?
EPHSTEYN: He's already stated that he'll put his business in a trust and run by his family, whereas the Clintons have stated, maybe they'll change things, but now Bill Clinton has said, they will keep taking foreign donations.
Keep in mind, Hillary Clinton made the same pledge when she became secretary of state that the Clinton Foundation wouldn't take foreign money, but they've continued to do so.
We are not even talking about the horrible tenure as secretary of state she had, the terrible time we're having in Iran. The Middle East, which has completely blown up on her watch. ISIS was born on her watch.
[14:40:00]We are talking about the fact that she couldn't even keep the rules, laws and regulations off the secretary of state while she was running it. That was her try out. She failed. She cannot be allowed to be president and that's why she won't be.
WHITFIELD: Boris Epshteyn and Taryn Rosenkranz, thanks so much to both of you. Appreciate it.
All right, still ahead, Turkish war planes have been bombing ISIS targets in Syria. A live report on why the fighting has suddenly intensified and what it could mean for the U.S.
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WHITFIELD: All right, welcome back. We're learning Turkey is ramping up border security as its artillery and war planes pound targets in Northern Syria. Since Wednesday, Turkey has been helping Syrian rebels along the border, retake a key town from ISIS fighters.
CNN's senior international correspondent, Nick Paton Walsh is near the Turkish/Syrian border. So, Nick, ISIS has been in control of these areas for more than two years now. Why is Turkey going after them like this now?
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Because they finally have seen, many say, the threat that's so close to them. The U.S. has hoped more Turkish action for a while, now they've got it. But there is a problem here for U.S. policy.
They're fighting both ISIS that everyone agrees are terrorists. But at the same time, they're also fighting in this incursion that Syrian Kurds that the U.S. have been backing for quite some time fight against ISIS.
Turkey considers them to be terrorists. What we've seen in the past few days is Turkish war planes, Turkish armor backing these Syrian rebels and they're sweeping quite fast through this territory.
[14:45:00]They're trying to take a big chunk of the border there to make that secure. And also head towards a town called Manbij where the Syrian Kurds recently kicked ISIS out of.
There could be clashes there and that really brings the whole U.S. policy against ISIS into a bit of jeopardy. They certainly want Turkey in the fight and will be backing the Syrian rebels that Turkey also are backing.
But they've also been backing these Syrian Kurds, and now these two groups are on opposite sides of a front line and the rhetoric are very tough.
We heard President Erdogan today here in this town addressing a large rally in support of him saying they fight both ISIS and the Syrian Kurds with similar determination.
This is something the U.S. has long wanted, to see Turkey in this fight, but this could be a very long-term intervention. Many concerned about what Turkey may have started and how they can finish it here -- Fredericka.
WHITFIELD: All right, Nick Paton Walsh, thank you so much.
All right, straight ahead, Governor Mike Pence goes on the offensive, attacking the media in a CNN exclusive.
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PENCE: I know the media wants to focus on that one issue. A lot of you people in the media. I have to tell you, I know how the media loves to come in and loves to, you know, divide the issues.
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WHITFIELD: All right, welcome back. Breaking news out of Louisiana, two people, including a fire chief, were killed when a charter bus driven by an unlicensed driver crashed just west of New Orleans. "The Times-Picayune" reports the driver was in the U.S. illegally and is facing criminal charges.
[14:50:05]State troopers say the bus was carrying flood relief workers to Baton Rouge when it lost control and drive through a blocked off crash scene. Nearly 60 people were taken to the hospital with injuries ranging from minor to critical. An investigation is underway.
And Republican vice presidential candidate, Governor Mike Pence, is accusing the media of focusing on the wrong issues including Donald Trump's plans to use a deportation force against illegal immigrants. Here's what he told Jake Tapper in this exclusive interview.
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TAPPER: And I'm wondering, for people out there, and look, it's not just the liberal media, right? It's also conservatives. It's Rush Limbaugh. It's Governor Sarah Palin, people who want Donald Trump to win, who were saying, wow, it sounds like he's really backing away from this deportation force.
PENCE: I know the media wants to focus on that one issue. Donald Trump will articulate a policy about how we deal with that population, but I promise you, he is going to remain completely focused on American citizens and people who are here legally and how we get this working for people who play by the rules.
TAPPER: I don't understand why it's the fault of the media for focusing on an issue that you're crediting Donald Trump for bringing to the fore?
PENCE: I have to tell you, I know how the media loves to come in and loves to, you know, divide the issues, and frankly, I think -- not you, personally, Jake, but a lot like to see if they can drive wedges between people that support Donald Trump. A lot of you people in the media spend more time talking about what Donald Trump said and tweeted in the last three days than you do focusing on what the Clintons have been up to for the last 30 years.
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WHITFIELD: All right, let's talk more about this with Frank Sesno, director of the School of Media and Public Affairs at George Washington University. Good to see you.
FRANK SESNO, DIRECTOR OF SCHOOL OF MEDIA AND PUBLIC AFFAIRS, GEORGE WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY: Good to see you, too.
WHITFIELD: All right, so Frank, this is all getting so confusing, isn't it? The Trump campaign, blaming the media for focusing too much on his deportation plans, immigration as a whole, but then the campaign takes credit for bringing the immigration issue to the forefront. So, which is it? How do you strike a balance if you're the Trump campaign?
SESNO: Well, it's a hard thing to strike a balance. A couple things, first of all, campaigns always like to blame the media, because the media is doing what the media's job is to some extent, which is shining the microscope, the hot white light on all these words.
Pence isn't wrong. There are many times when the media go too far, focus more on horse race and scandal and controversy than on the substance. And voters do want to know how some of these issues, real problems are going to be addressed.
That has been, too, I think, rare in media coverage. We need more of that. Now, all of that being said, if there is a time to shine the light on, it's now, before someone is elected, not after.
WHITFIELD: Ten weeks or so to go.
SESNO: Yes. Donald Trump, Hillary Clinton, for that matter, should have everything they say scrutinized, taken apart for inconsistency, inaccuracy, hypocrisy, that is the media's job.
WHITFIELD: And exposure, you know, has been tantamount to the success, you know, of Donald Trump's campaign. Whether it be on print or broadcast, et cetera, and in large part explains why he hasn't had to spend a lot of money on ads. He's been able to use kind of free media for exposure and to drive his campaign.
SESNO: That's right. He's had billions of dollars in free media. By the way, it's a little ironic in that same interview with Jake Tapper, Governor Pence there said, quoted and credited the Associated Press for reporting on the connection between Clinton Foundation donors and meetings with Hillary Clinton.
So every candidate wants the media to, you know, to give a hard time to the other side. And I think the problem that Trump has had in particular is that there has been so many inconsistencies, so many inaccuracies, and so many exaggerations, that the fact checkers and the real reporters out there have had ample material.
But it is one of these people who will have their finger on the nuclear button, who will be managing the national economy, who will be leader of the free world, as we like to say. And I would rather have the focus on their words now than after they're elected and then it's a congressional investigation.
WHITFIELD: And there's been a time between now and September 21st. That's the first debate. We know they are still working out moderators and some of the rules and the whole scenario, et cetera, but talk about media exposure. This is going to be one of the biggest stages for either one of these candidates in a very long time. And it could serve one or both very well or it could mean exposing a candidate or two in a very different way, right?
SESNO: Exactly. You know, the debates will have, I'm sure, record viewership in the United States and around the world. They will be the place where the candidates will reveal gaffes, if they make them, show how they will confront one another in what has been a very bitter and nasty campaign, where I hope there will be some real focus on issues.
[14:55:00]Debates are being set up in these 15-minute blocks. The Presidential Commission on Debates is trying to formant that way. So whoever is moderating can be working with a topic and then drill down and press the candidates to engage one another and really debate. Maybe that will shed some light on how they'll actually govern.
WHITFIELD: Yes, could potentially be very revealing as most debates usually are, presidential debates. All right, Frank Sesno, thank you so much. Appreciate it. Good to see you.
SESNO: My pleasure. Good to see you.
WHITFIELD: All right, straight ahead, arrests in the shooting death of an NBA star's cousin on the streets of Chicago and the rising violence in that city.
Then a controversial protest by 49ers quarterback, Colin Kaepernick. The reaction to his refusal to stand during the national anthem. That and more when CNN NEWSROOM continues. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WHITFIELD: Happening now in the NEWSROOM --
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DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: On day one, I'm going to begin swiftly removing criminal illegal immigrants from this country.
TAPPER: Will there be a deportation force?
PENCE: Nothing has changed about Donald Trump's position.
TRUMP: There certainly can be a softening because we're not looking to hurt people.
I don't think it's a softening. I've had people say it's a hardening.
PENCE: His position and his principles have been absolutely consistent.
WHITFIELD: Mike Pence insisting today Donald Trump has not shifted on the issue of immigration. You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.
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WHITFIELD: Hello again, everyone. And thank you so much for joining me --
