Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Trump Not Softening on Immigration; Trump Co-Author Advises Clinton; Trump Surrogate Apologizes; ISIS Spokesman Killed. Aired 2- 2:30p ET

Aired August 30, 2016 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[14:00:00] WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: For our viewers in North America, "Newsroom" with Brooke Baldwin starts right now.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Wolf, thank you.

I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thanks for being with me.

We begin with breaking news here on CNN. Just 24 hours before Donald Trump unveils his highly anticipated immigration plan, the one that surrogates seem to be having trouble clarifying, well, moments ago one of Trump's own sons giving CNN a preview of what's to come as their father speaks in Phoenix tomorrow. And Donald Trump Jr. is denying that his father is softening on his original hard line stance when it comes to immigration.

So let's go first here to Sunlen Serfaty with all the details.

What did Don Jr. say?

SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brooke, it really appears that Donald Trump Jr. is really trying to clean this up for his father, as you said, amid all these questions over softening, what his position really is on immigration. And it was interesting in this interview that will air tonight with Anderson Cooper, Donald Trump Jr. was asked specifically about a moment that really exemplifies how Donald Trump has almost been, you know, processing and deciding his immigration policy, almost in real time. This happened about - last week in Austin, Texas, where Trump almost polled the crowd and said, what do you think I should do about the undocumented immigrants in this country? That caught a lot of people's eye and ear then. Well, Don Jr. responds to that moment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP JR., DONALD TRUMP'S SON: He wasn't softening on anything. He didn't change his stance on anything. What he did was - and what he's done all along is, he's speaking with the people. He's not lecturing them, like most of the politicians you see today. He's actually having a conversation. He basically surveyed the room and asked, hey, what are your thoughts on this. I want to take that because I want to take into account what the people say, unlike our opponent who basically will take into account only those who, you know, contribute millions and millions of dollars to her campaign. He's actually having a conversation with the people of this country, the hard working men and women who made this country great. He's giving them a voice. He asked an opinion. He didn't say, well, my policy's now changed. He didn't say that. Now, the media will run with it however they want, but that's not what actually happened.

ANDERSON COOPER, HOST, CNN'S "AC 360": But it did seem -

TRUMP: And I was in the room.

COOPER: It did seem to some viewers though who we talked to that it seemed like he's polling the room, he's not quite sure what his own policy is.

TRUMP: He was asking for an opinion. His policy has been the same for the last, you know, six, seven, eight months.

COOPER: So he's still talking - he still says deport - they all got to go?

TRUMP: That's been the same. Correct. But, again, you have to start with baby steps. You have to let ICE do their job. You have to eliminate sanctuary cities. You have to get rid of the criminals certainly first and foremost. You have to secure the border. These are common sense things, Anderson.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SERFATY: Now, two words right there, Brooke, really caught my ear - baby steps. You know, that's such a different interpretation in tone and approach than we heard from Donald Trump during the primary campaign talking about mass deportations, round them all up, get them all out on day one. So it's something that we still have questions leading into tomorrow's big speech.

BALDWIN: We will talk more about that and the baby steps. Sunlen, for now, thank you so much.

Make sure you watch this entire interview with Anderson Cooper, Donald Trump Jr., they will be on 8:00 tonight only here on CNN.

Meantime, from the news on immigration ahead of tomorrow, we have more breaking news. This is about the FBI's investigation into Hillary Clinton's use of a private e-mail server. Along with the official report that led to no charges, the FBI is now planning to release notes from Hillary Clinton's voluntary interview at FBI headquarters as early as tomorrow. The release here is in response to numerous Freedom of Information requests, including from CNN.

The investigation sure to be a hot topic on the big stage when Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump face off during the very first debate on September 26th. I can tell you that CNN has confirmed that the man whose name appears on the cover of this book right after Donald Trump's is actually now advising Hillary Clinton's debate prep team. Co-author of "The Art of the Deal," he is Tony Schwartz, who worked with Trump in the heart of the '80s and now he is one of Mr. Trump's most ardent opponents. Here is the prediction Schwartz gave "The New York Times." So in this

piece they published this morning, quote, "he will use" - this is - they're talking about Trump - "he will use sixth grade language. He will repeat himself many times. He won't complete sentences and he won't say anything of substance." OK? But here's the "but." When they talk to Mr. Schwartz about Hillary Clinton, they said, he said, no, no, it won't necessarily be a slam dunk for her either. He added this. Quote, "Clinton has to be careful. She could get everything right and still potentially lose the debates if she comes off as too condescending, too much of a know-it-all."

So let's turn to CNN political commentator Patrick Healy, who co-wrote this piece in "The Times" this morning, which was absolutely fascinating and full of detail, including who might fill in for, what, Trump in that - that faux debate. We'll get to that in a second.

Patrick, nice to see you.

PATRICK HEALY, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Good to see you, Brooke.

[14:05:00] BALDWIN: Let's talk about how you all sort of start the beginning of the piece with Tony Schwartz, as we mentioned, who they've hired, and also this psychological expert. What is team Clinton trying to do with these two?

HEALY: Yes, just to be clear, they haven't hired Tony Schwartz, but they're talking to him and they're talking to psychology experts -

BALDWIN: Talking to him. OK.

HEALY: Sure. And other writers. Brooke, going as far back as, you know, in the 1980s, people who worked up close with Donald Trump, who knew him, who could see what bothered him, what would get under his skin, like whether he was as successful a businessman as some of his rivals, whether he was hitting the $500 million mark or, you know, closing in on $1 billion. Sort of his insecurities around his own net worth, his own success, even his own intelligence.

You know, the Clinton campaign is sort of creating what they've described as this kind of personality and psychological profile to try to figure out how to get under his skin and bait him in the debates. They see this, as Tony Schwartz said, they aren't going to win, they don't think, the debates by just sort of, you know, piling on policy details and trying to win on points.

BALDWIN: Yes.

HEALY: It's going to be about temperament and trying to get Trump to undermine himself.

BALDWIN: Which I think is what one of my next guests will agree with you on temperament. As for Trump though, Patrick, how and with whom has he been preparing?

HEALY: Yes. He has sort of a tight circle, Kellyanne Conway, his campaign manager, who's also his pollster, who was able to come to his Sunday debate prep sessions that he's been having out at his golf place - golf course in New Jersey with polling data, with sort of what works, what kind of issues and answers sell. He's got Roger Ailes with him, the former head of Fox, who, you know, is kind of a master in terms of communication, in terms of the sound bites, bites, the memorable sound bites. He's got Steve Bannon from Breitbart.

The first session also he had Laura Ingraham, the conservative radio host, who was sort of on hand to play Hillary Clinton. But what Donald Trump told me was that he really hates these mock debates. He finds them to be phony. He thinks there's such a thing as sort of over preparing and he said, "I know how to handle Hillary." This is a guy who's just got so much self-confidence around how he can be on a debate stage. But what he's still grappling with is that it's not going to be, you know, nine other people on stage like he had in the primaries, but one person, you know, who's going to have to go hard at.

BALDWIN: So then as they do these mock debates - or at least we know, you know, Hillary Clinton is practicing - who are some of the names they're throwing out as potential people to play Trump?

HEALY: Yes, it sounds like they're going to have one person play Trump in the mock debates, in the days leading up to that late September debate. They want that person actually to be willing to spend a lot of time preparing to play Trump, to watch Trump in those primary debate videos, to know Trump's policies.

BALDWIN: And who can be tough with her.

HEALY: Yes. No, exactly, and to get under her skin. Hillary wants someone who will unnerve her. So they're talking about Congressman Joe Crowley, you know, congressman from New York, you know, who's tough. Who can sort of get in her face. They're, you know, throwing it open even to like actors like, you know, an Alec Baldwin or a George Clooney. It's unlikely it's going to be an actor. They think it will be another politician.

BALDWIN: OK. OK, Patrick Healy, thank you so much.

Let's broaden this out here -

HEALY: Thank you.

BALDWIN: And bring in CNN political commentator Lanhee Chen, who used to be the public policy director for Mitt Romney, and Larry Haas, who used to be the communications director for Al Gore when he was vice president.

Gentlemen, nice to have both of you back.

LANHEE CHEN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Good to be with you.

LARRY HAAS, SENIOR FELLOW, AMERICAN FOREIGN POLICY COUNCIL: Thanks. Nice to be here.

BALDWIN: Let's - let's begin, Larry, between what, you know, Patrick was telling me, not - they haven't hired but they're having conversations with the, you know, the co-author of "The Art of the Deal," and this psychological expert, you know, really sort of trying to find those vulnerabilities for Mr. Trump, needle him on stage and see how he responds. Is that a typical thing when it comes to presidential debate prep?

HAAS: Well, certainly, every time, you know, you're preparing for a debate, you're looking for how to exploit the weaknesses of your opponent. Now I think for Secretary Clinton, it's a little bit tricky but she'll be able to do this pretty effectively because Donald Trump has an incredibly thin skin. He seems to react violently, at least in a rhetorical sense, every time he's challenged on anything. I think the trick for Secretary Clinton is to do it in a way in which it doesn't appear like she's getting in the mud with him.

BALDWIN: Yes.

HAAS: So she will point out contradictions of his policy. She will probably relate third-party validation about how awful some of his policies would be, whether it's the trillions of dollars in debt that she would - he would add with his tax cuts, or, obviously, the closing of the border and the trade war and all the rest. And she - she will do it in a way that is high-minded. But because he's being challenged, I suspect that he will quickly react in a childish way which will demean him. And it's the last thing he needs in this debate is to appear even more demeaning than he's already come across in this campaign.

[14:10:22] BALDWIN: And maybe childish, maybe not, which could then throw Hillary Clinton back off of her game if she thought she had found his vulnerability and he was sort of, cool, calm and collected.

Lanhee, what do you think? I mean you wrote this whole piece for CNN on ways Trump could win the debate.

CHEN: Yes.

BALDWIN: What's the number one way?

CHEN: Well, I think it's going to be really important for him to address the temperament issue.

BALDWIN: Yes.

CHEN: I think demonstrating that he's got the temperament and the judgment to withstand whatever attacks come from Clinton. And surely she's going to have prepped. She's going to know what his pressure points, what his pain points are and she's going to go after those. So he's got to be able to respond accordingly.

The other thing I think he has to be very careful to do is not to overstate the case against Hillary Clinton. There's plenty of proof points out there on why it might be that Hillary Clinton is untrustworthy, for example. He doesn't need to go making things up or chasing conspiracy theories, like her health.

BALDWIN: Don't go there.

CHEN: And then the last thing I would say is, I do think he needs to have some policy. I think he needs to demonstrate that he's got some kind of plan to deal with the problems Americans face.

BALDWIN: Doesn't need to be a wonk. But he needs to have a plan.

CHEN: No, he doesn't need to be the world's greatest expert -

BALDWIN: Yes.

CHEN: But he needs to be able to show, look, hey, we've got some solutions and I've got some ideas.

BALDWIN: OK. OK. Larry, back to you, because, listen, as we're looking of debates past, I don't know if you know where I'm going to go with this, 2000, George Bush and Al Gore. And Al Gore was a little bit confident going into that debate and, you know, who emerged the victor was George Bush and much ado was made over the size. Here's the clip.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AL GORE, FORMER U.S. VICE PRESIDENT: Now, for every dollar that I propose to spend on education, he spends $5 on a tax cut for the wealthiest 1 percent. Those are very clear differences.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Governor.

GEORGE W. BUSH, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: The man's practicing fuzzy math again. There is differences.

GORE: (Sigh).

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Now people had a bit of fun and mashed up the size and that was an issue for Al Gore in that particular debate. So, Larry, my question on Hillary Clinton is, you know, as folks have pointed out, she has to be careful not to come off as a know-it-all, not to be condescending.

HAAS: Right, no doubt about it. I mean she knows more about public policy than any of us combined. She does - she needs to not overdo it. She needs to be prepared, not to be rattled, not to be taken off her game, not to kind of tighten up and appear like she's being very sensitive. She needs to not be programmed. She needs to let some of her genuine - and I mean genuine - warmth and charm come through. So, for her, it's about demeanor.

I think for Donald Trump, you know, the challenge is just much greater. I mean he doesn't appear presidential, at least to this date, in terms of temperament or in terms of policy. And so if he tries to appear presidential, he has to contradict himself. And if he, you know, if he goes back to the way he's been, than he continues to turn people off. So she's got a challenge, but he has a much larger one. BALDWIN: He has said - final question to you, Lanhee, he has said so

far he's not done an actual mock debate itself. He's also said, listen, if I do this too much, I may come off as phony and scripted and - I mean maybe there's some truth to that -

CHEN: Yes.

BALDWIN: But you kind of have to practice.

CHEN: It's a fair point. But I think he really needs to approach this in a disciplined way. I mean I think it's one thing to be comfortable. And I think being comfortable in prep is crucially important.

BALDWIN: Yes.

CHEN: When we prepped Governor Romney, we always wanted to make sure that he had a comfort with what we were doing. But at some point you have to be disciplined. And I think mock debates do play a role. I do think we spend a little too much time thinking about the stand-ins and the mock debates. The substance of the prep is the most important thing. But he does need to get serious if he wants to perform in the way he needs to perform to turn this campaign around for the first debate.

BALDWIN: OK. OK. Lanhee Chen, thank you so much.

CHEN: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Nice to see you in person.

And, Larry Haas, thank you very much as well.

HAAS: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Join a quick programing note.

Thank you.

Join us on Labor Day. We'll be here. We'll be working. Turn on CNN to hear personal stories about both candidates. So starting at 10:00 that evening, Eastern Time, with "Unfinished Business: The Essential Hillary Clinton." And then at 10:00 with "All Business: The Essential Donald Trump." Tune in Labor Day night only here on CNN.

Meantime, the pastor who introduces Donald Trump at his rallies is now apologizes for tweeting out a picture of Hillary Clinton in blackface. But he's also in some trouble for yet another tweet. We're going to explore that ahead of Mr. Trump's visit to Detroit this weekend.

Also ahead, is it possible the election could be hacked? Yep. New fears and new information about hackers breaking into the system. The vulnerabilities there.

And, after he left a profanity-laced voicemail, the governor of Maine says he will consider resigning, but then minutes later he changed his tune. Hear why. I'm Brooke Baldwin and this is CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:18:57] BALDWIN: Welcome back to CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Days before Donald Trump takes his pitch to African-American voters in a major hub of black history and culture, Detroit, Michigan, one of his high-profile surrogates, Pastor Mark Burns, was blast for sending this controversial tweet. It is a caricature of Hillary Clinton in blackface. Pastor Burns forced to apologize this morning on CNN.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PASTOR MARK BURNS, TRUMP SURROGATE: I pray that those who I offended really receive as a sincere apology because it was never my intention to - you know, to hurt anyone or offend anyone. For me, the last thing I want to do was to draw attention away from Mr. Trump's policy. And that message was a divisive message. And once I discovered how divisive it was, this - this is not the campaign talking. This is not someone yelling in my ear saying, you need to take that down or - this is Mark Burns all by himself who truly loves people.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, ANCHOR, CNN'S "NEW DAY": Yes.

BURNS: And I love this country. And I believe in Donald Trump for president.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Here with me now, Professor Peniel Joseph, director of the Center for the Study of Race and Democracy, the University of Texas at Austin.

[14:20:07] Professor, welcome back. Nice to see you.

PENIEL JOSEPH, CENTER FOR THE STUDY OF RACE & DEMOCRACY, UNIVERSITY OF TEXAS: Good to be back.

BALDWIN: Let's just begin with, you know, you just saw Pastor Burns. You also have the Trump campaign working to disavow the David Duke robo calls. You have the fact that he's been criticized for speaking and reaching out to black voters in majority white audiences. He is indeed going to Detroit this weekend. What does he need to say?

JOSEPH: Well, I don't think there's much he can say. I think that what's going on here is that Donald Trump's attempt to reach out to African-American voters really has gone from being a tragedy to a farce because his campaign has unleashed furies of racial hatred in the country, some that he's partially responsible for, some that he's actually not responsible for but that he's become this galvanizing symbol, not just to David Duke, but White Lives Matter. The Southern Poverty Law Center just named White Lives Matter a hate group. So what we're seeing with Donald Trump is that he's become an icon of racial injustice and racial intolerance in the United States. So what's interesting is unlike Richard Nixon in 1968 and even Ronald

Reagan in 1980, he's not doing any kind of dog whistle politics. So he's basically talking about his intolerance, even when he supposedly is reaching out to African-Americans because he sets --

BALDWIN: So - but I understand. And, listen, he has been eviscerated by many on not -

JOSEPH: Yes.

BALDWIN: You know, just had a guest on yesterday saying he's not talking with, he's talking to, and it's, you know, not authentic.

JOSEPH: Yes.

BALDWIN: But, I mean, the fact is, he's going to Detroit. He is going to a black church. He is speaking with a very prominent reverend there who, by the way, says this is not an endorsement. I mean do you give the man any credit for finally doing this?

JOSEPH: No, I don't, because when you think about reaching out to black voters, you need to have policies and you need to have a record or at least a framework of what you're trying to do. What he is doing is basically -

BALDWIN: He says he'll create jobs. He says he'll improve the economy.

JOSEPH: Yes.

BALDWIN: You know, he'll make it safer for you to walk down the streets. I'm just saying, that's what - you know, Trump would say.

JOSEPH: Yes. But, Brooke, he sets up this dystopian vision of the black community as if there's no variation in terms of social economic income, neighborhoods we live in. Not all black people live in safe neighborhoods.

BALDWIN: Yes.

JOSEPH: Even those who live in highly segregated neighborhoods below the poverty line create something called community. These are not ghettos. So he's creating these stereotypes. And I would argue with you, Brooke, that it's not about reaching out to black voters. He's signaling to white voters two different things. To moderate white voters he's trying to signal that he's racially tolerant. But to some of his core racially intolerant voters, he's actually giving them red meat to inspire them to come out in November because he's setting up this dystopian landscape of the black community. That's not the black community that I was raised in in New York City. That is something out of a John Carpenter film. It's escape from New York. It's a post- apocalyptic African-American community where they're all killing each other and he's - he's telling them, you don't have anything to lose, you should vote for me. I mean this is - this is, like I said, this is worse than Reagan in 1980, it's worse than Nixon in 1968. It's a complete and utter lack of respect for black people as human beings, away from ideology. BALDWIN: Yes, I hear you. I hear you and I know and -

JOSEPH: He doesn't - he doesn't respect us as human beings.

BALDWIN: And Hillary Clinton points out the dystopian view as well. But, you know, final question, too. I've talked to, you know, incredibly smart people on this show who say that both candidates are speaking to blacks in monolithic terms. I mean most are saying it's Trump, but is that fair to say?

JOSEPH: No, I don't think it's fair to say. I think that the Black Lives Matter movement has pushed Hillary into a come - you know, she's had her "come to Jesus" moment like Paul on the road to Damascus, that there's institutional racism and she's said it at the Democratic National Convention. So I don't think it's pandering when, under other presidents, John F. Kennedy had a "come to Jesus" moment in 1963. Lyndon Johnson became one of the biggest supporters of racial justice by 1964 and '65. So presidents can learn and they evolve.

President Barack Obama evolved on the issue of gay marriage. So I think Hillary Clinton, right now, she's articulated that she's evolved and we have to see, if she's elected president, what her policies would be on behalf of the African-American community.

BALDWIN: If she delivers. Professor Peniel Joseph, nice to see you again. Thank you for your voice.

JOSEPH: Good to see you.

BALDWIN: Thank you.

JOSEPH: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Coming up next here on CNN, we are following breaking news. A top ISIS leader reportedly killed in an airstrikes. A live report, those details, when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:29:29] ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BALDWIN: Breaking news just in to CNN. One of ISIS' top leaders and the group's official spokesman has reportedly been killed.

Let's bring in our senior international correspondent Nick Paton Walsh, live for us in nearby Turkey.

And, Nick, I mean just to underscore this, reading a tweet from Graeme Wood, who's written extensively on ISIS, saying, "easily the most important kill in the history of the Islamic State." This is huge.

[14:30:00] NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: This is an extraordinary moment in the fight against ISIS, absolutely. Abu Mohammed al-Adnani, to many the more public face of ISIS' campaign against west - against many Muslims here living in this region, said killed by...