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High-Level ISIS Spokesman Killed In Syria Airstrike; Officials: Foreign Criminals Behind Election Database Breaches; Colin Kaepernick Criticized for Refusing to Stand for National Anthem; George Washington University Hired Former Al Qaeda Recruiter. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired August 30, 2016 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:30:00] NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: This is an extraordinary moment in the fight against ISIS, absolutely. Abu Mohammed al Adnani, being one of the more public face of ISIS' campaign against many Muslims here living in this region, killed, by two different sources, it seems. Firstly, ISIS' affiliated agency announcing his martyrdom, his death while inspecting military operations in Aleppo, followed by what appears to be a statement from ISIS themselves on their traditional, you might which they, too, accept that he has died.

I should point out we don't have any independent evidence of his death. We haven't heard from the Pentagon if they are perhaps somehow involved in this. But we do have this remarkable moment in which ISIS have chosen to step forward and say that one of their most high- profile dead. This leaves perhaps al Baghdadi, the next person high on the kill list for the United States.

But this man was the spokesperson to some degree. He spoke when Baghdadi didn't. He was man who devised a remarkably, fair to say, successful killing, brutal, ghastly media enterprise which used high- definition media video often of executions be with of brutality, to entice recruits. And most importantly to those sitting at home, this is the man who inspired recruits to go off and attack the West. It in a particularly chilling fashion, perhaps perverting the idea of the lone-wolf terrorist. He basically said you don't even have to speak to us in is. If you want to go and do something revolting, crazy, kill the infidel, just go do it and we'll back you in the afterlife, or whatever.

It does appear at this stage, unless for some reason ISIS' most affiliated, and this statement is a fake, unless we are living in a very confused world here, it does appear they have announced his death at this particular point. That's a very rare circumstance to be in.

You must be wondering, too, what brings ISIS to admit this high-level kind of casualty, we might say, as the person in charge of their media operations is now dead and perhaps they are struggling. But it comes after a very difficult chapter in their history here. Pressure near where I am standing, he is supposed to have died near about an hour's drive from where I am standing. But they're under pressure around the Turkish border to get more recruits and frankly in most of the territory they've held. This is a bad few months for them. This is remarkable news, the most high-profile death, frankly, death, in their leadership that we have seen.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Nick Paton Walsh, thank you for underscoring how significant this is. I'm sure our folks at the Pentagon are working to get a reaction from officials there. Nick Paton Walsh, thank you so much.

We have much more on that coming up here, this kill.

Also ahead, Russian hackers targeting U.S. election databases. Systems in both Arizona and Illinois have apparently been breached already. So the big question everyone is asking, could the presidential election November 8th be next. Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid now asking the FBI to investigate. We'll talk to a cyber security expert to find out how vulnerable we actually are, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:32:55] BALDWIN: The FBI has covered evidence that criminal hackers have infiltrated are state election databases both in Arizona and Illinois, potentially exposing the personal information of hundreds of thousands of voters. Investigators say what they're likely after is names, addresses, driver's licenses, partial Social Security numbers. A law enforcement official saying top suspects are most likely based overseas. And that attack comes on the heels of the suspected Russian hack of the Democratic National Committee's e-mail system.

Now joining me, Rob Sadowski, director of Technology Solutions for RSA, a cyber security firm. Jim Sciutto is with us from Washington, our CNN chief national security correspondent.

Good to have both of you on.

Rob, let me begin with you here.

I know voters' ears are perked, hackers and stealing their personal information. The question is how much of their personal information could have been compromised and what about actual votes as well, which then leads to concerns about November 8th.

ROB SADOWSKI, DIRECTOR, TECHNOLOGY SOLUTIONS FOR RSA: Right. Are seeing here is that these databases are used by the states to maintain their voter registration records. The type of information would be name, it would be their party affiliation, and other potentially their date of birth and other information that the state would use to help them register to vote. And it may also have additional information like where they vote, their polling place, and some other additional information there. So, this information is generally a matter of public record. So in and of itself, it is not necessarily that damaging when it gets out. But, when you take this information and combine it with other information -- because as we have seen, hackers and cyber criminals, what they'll often do is build profiles on individuals. The more of a profile they have, the more convincing they can be to commit fraud, or other type of dangerous activity about this individual. So that's why they should be concerned.

BALDWIN: OK. I'm going to loop back with you because I still have my question about Election Day.

But, Jim Sciutto, to you.

Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid has officially apparently asked the FBI to investigate evidence suggesting that Russia is trying to manipulate voting results. If in fact -- if that's true, what sort of precedent is there for something like this?

[14:40:13] JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Brooke, no precedent in U.S. presidential elections. I really don't think we can underestimate haw big a potential deal this is. First of all, Harry Reid is raising his hands here and he says in so many words that the public doesn't know how extensive this threat is. Here's a guy who is going to get classified briefings on exactly how extensive it is. Two, as you note, he is not just infiltrating or stealing some data from these rolls, but the possible intention of influencing or changing election results.

BALDWIN: The election! Yeah.

SCIUTTO: The thing is, you have two possibilities here. One, you could conceivably do that. We know Russia has enormous cyber attack capabilities. Two, even if you don't do that, just by sewing doubt in the results, you potentially cause instability. Of course, it happens at a time when you have a major presidential candidate mentioning the same thing to his supporters, questioning the legitimacy of the election in advance saying, in effect, that if he loses certain states, that cheating must have occurred. That potential is really an ominous one and something that we got to watch very closely. I know for a fact that U.S. officials are watching very closely.

BALDWIN: How feasible, given the way Jim explained how totally unprecedented it would be, Rob, last question to you, in the sophistication level of technology these days, that somebody could happen November 8th?

SADOWSKI: Well, I think that certainly we've seen through the hacks of here that there are outside forces and outside actors that are definitely interested in influencing these types of proceedings. I think we should expect to see continued attempts to compromise these types of systems. Now in terms of influencing votes, typically those systems are kept offline, there's checks and balances, there's good checks on the security.

But I think Jim's point is very well-taken. It's undermining the confidence in the system, that people don't feel that their data is safe, that they feel the integrity of the system is somehow compromised, can throw doubts into that -- into the authenticity of some of the results potentially. I think that's really what we have to be concerned about and place more attention on monitoring for these type of attacks so that we can prevent them from happening and undermining some of this confidence.

BALDWIN: Yep. Rob and Jim, thank you both so much.

Coming up next, we continue to follow the breaking news here. We are hearing this top ISIS official, the terror group's spokesman, has reportedly been killed. Huge. Huge deal.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:46:47] BALDWIN: Welcome back. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Outrage continues as NFL Quarterback Colin Kaepernick refuses to back down from his protest against police brutality. He's sitting out during the national anthem. Now you have politicians speaking out. The White House weighing in calling him decision "objectionable." And Donald Trump weighting in, saying this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE (voice-over): Well, I have been following it and I think it personally is not a good thing. I think it is a terrible thing. You know, maybe he should find a country that works better for him. Let him try. It won't happen.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: With me now, Morgan Jerkins, a writer for "Rolling Stone," who supports Kaepernick.

Morgan, thank you so much for swinging by.

I thought your piece was really thought provoking. I thought the crux of your message is it is a double standard with black athletes protesting. For example, Gabby Douglas at the Olympics.

MORGAN JERKINS, WRITER, ROLLING STONE: Yes. First, thank you for having pea. I think we need to talk about this double standard for black athletes. Understand they are not just here for entertainment. I think especially when we look at male black athletes. We forget once they go off the field they are still a black man and they are still subjected to racial profiling. I think that's wt inspired Colin to sit down and not stand up for the national anthem. So that's the thing I think is interesting about it.

BALDWIN: You were pointing out Gabby Douglas didn't put her hand over pointed out some white shot putters didn't either and no flap was raised. You think that's because of the color of their skin?

JERKINS: I think that's a huge part of it. As I mentioned in my "Rolling Stone" article that being white in this country is intrinsically considered American. I think when Gabby Douglas decided to put her hand over her heart, whether or not it was an intentional decision, there was so much outrage that she had to apologize for, whereas these white shot putters had their hands by their sides and no one said a thing. And that shows how he is considered the other because of this outrage.

BALDWIN: There is a piece of this, too. I think we are showcasing third verse of the national anthem. If I may, let me just read this for everyone, "And where is that band who so vauntingly swore that the havoc of war and the battles of confusion their home and country should leave us no more. Their blood has washed out, their foul footstep's pollution. No refuge could save the hireling and slave from the terror or flight or the gloom of the grave. And the star- spangled banner in triumph doth wave over the land of the free and the home of the brave."

It goes on. Francis Scott Key.

I don't think a lot of people know about this piece. We only sing the first verse.

JERKINS: Right. And I think that's sort of demonstrates --

(CROSSTALK)

JERKINS: What does it mean for you?

JERKINS: It was gob-smacking for me because I just found out about this a couple days ago. It demonstrates a lot of cognitive dissonance a lot off African-Americans face when we talk about American ideals and freedom and prosperity and equality when we have to also think about reality. Sometimes when we think about our systemic oppression and racial profiling and police brutality that sort of undermines the American ideals that were set forth.

[14:50:23] BALDWIN: I had a Marine on my set yesterday who fought for this country in Iraq. He said, wear a T-shirt, give money to your local YWCA, speak to police but -- I fought for this country. Don't sit down.

JERKINS: I saw that. I understood where he was coming from. But as I mentioned in my article, we have to think about threats abroad versus domestic threats. There are many marginalized communities in this country who feel like they are being terrorized by law enforcement. That's what I was trying to get out.

BALDWIN: OK. Morgan Jerkins, thank you for your perspective. Appreciate it. JERKINS: Thank you so much.

BALDWIN: Coming up next, he was a radicalized extremist who recruited for al Qaeda.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JESSE MORTON, GEORGE WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY HOMELAND SECURITY EMPLOYEE & FORMER AL QAEDA RECRUITER: We're commanded to terrorize the disbelievers. This is a religion.

DREW GRIFFIN, CNN INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: You're commanded to terrorize?

MORTON: The Koran says very clearly in Arabic language, "terrorize them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Seven years later, he has a new outlook on life, a job at a top university, and says he is ashamed at what he did. Some are asking can he be trusted. His one-on-one interview with CNN, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:55:46] BALDWIN: One American university has decided there is no better expert on terrorism than a former terrorist. George Washington University's just hired a former Islamist extremist, a man known as one of the most prolific recruiters for al Qaeda, to work at its center on Homeland Security.

CNN's Elizabeth Cohen has his story.

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This U.S. citizen was once a radicalized extremist.

MORTON: I went to prison for propagandizing on behalf of a terrorist organization.

COHEN: He recruited people to join al Qaeda.

MORTON: It became a call to go out on to your back porch and just start killing civilians.

COHEN: We couldn't tell you then what we can tell you now. His name is Jesse Morton. And he has a new job as a research fellow at George Washington University Center for Cyber and Homeland Security where he'll be doing research and writing but not teaching.

(on camera): So what can you, given your background, contribute to this program?

MORTON: Well, I mean I have a background in radicalizing others. I understand the mentality. I understand also what attracts people to the ideology. I also understand how to counter that as a result.

COHEN (voice-over): The hope is that Morton can stop others from becoming extremists. But, can he be trusted?

Take a look at this story from CNN's Drew Griffin nearly seven years ago when Morton called himself by another name.

MORTON: We're commanded to terrorize the disbelievers. This is a religion.

GRIFFIN: You're commanded to terrorize?

MORTON: The Koran says very clearly in Arabic language, "terrorize them." It is a command from Allah.

COHEN (voice-over): We showed this to someone who knew him.

(SHOUTING)

COHEN (on camera): Is this the man you know now?

SEAMUS HUGHES, GEORGE WASHINGTON CENTER FOR CYBER & HOMELAND SECURITY: No. That's not who Jesse was then. He has reformed. He's changed.

COHEN: Do you trust him?

HUGHES: Yes. We did our due diligence. I used to be at the intelligence community. I called my old colleagues. I talked to the FBI who he's been working with for the last year.

COHEN: You are an expert in extremists. But does he know something that you don't?

HUGHES: It is one thing to read a book. It is another thing to understand it.

COHEN: Can you understand why someone might see this and say I can't believe George Washington would hire this guy?

HUGHES: I understand their concerns.

(SHOUTING)

COHEN: Is that the same man I am looking at now?

MORTON: No, that is an ignorant man. That's a man who has been brainwashed.

COHEN: How does that make you feel now?

MORTON: Regretful, and like I want to deter others from adopting that same position.

COHEN (voice-over): Jesse Curtis Morton was a choir boy at his grandmother's Baptist church, born in Pennsylvania. But he came from an abusive household and was in and out of jail on various charges. He co-founded a group called Revolution Muslim in 2008.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jesse Morton.

COHEN: And he maintained those views while earning a masters degree at international affairs from Columbia University in 2009. At Revolution Muslim, he encouraged others to engage in violent jihad, according to the U.S. attorney's office.

In 2012, Morton was sentenced to 11 years in federal prison for threatening the creators of the TV show "South Park," which depicted the Prophet Muhammad in a bear suit. He was released in three years. He later cooperated with the FBI on several high-profile cases affiliated with George Washington University.

MORTON: I was viewed as a demon.

COHEN: He said his de-radicalization began when one FBI agent saw him differently. MORTON: I had interaction with a fabulous female agent that over time

it became apparent to me that she was a human being. All she cared about was protecting the public. She really was like a good family person. She loved her country and she was just -- it wasn't a manipulation as far as I saw it. And so I opened up. I was re- humanized by my interactions with someone I once thought to be my enemy.

COHEN: Morton said he hopes the American public will come to believe him and ideally forgive him.

(on camera): I imagine some people would say, why should we believe this man. He was a voice for hate and a voice for violence. Why should we believe him that he's changed?

MORTON: I just have to prove myself and --