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Zika in Florida; Interview With Former Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano; Trump's Immigration Stance?. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired September 01, 2016 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:48]

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: You're watching CNN. Thanks for rolling on with me. I'm Brooke Baldwin here, hour two, politics.

The vice president of the United States, Joe Biden, he, in front of this massive crowd there in Warren, Ohio, just questioned whether or not Donald Trump knows his own immigration policy after 24 hours of confusion and contradiction.

Let me take a couple steps back. This started with the Republican nominee standing beside the president of Mexico, his tone at first cordial, the optics, according to admirers, absolutely presidential.

That didn't totally last long, because then several hours later Mr. Trump reverted back to talk of an immigration crackdown. That has prompted several of his prominent Hispanic supporters to say no thanks, not supporting Donald Trump anymore.

We're calling it a tale of two Trumps here that he seemed to repeat today, diplomatic Trump in the morning and that was before the American Legion, and then later on, hard-line Trump today at a campaign rally.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I just came back from a wonderful meeting with the president of Mexico, where I expressed my deep respect for the people of his country and for the tremendous contributions of Mexican-Americans in our country.

And they have made tremendous contributions.

AUDIENCE: Build the wall! Build the wall! Build the wall! Build the wall! Build the wall!

TRUMP: Don't worry, we're going to build the wall. That wall will go up.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

TRUMP: We're going to build the wall. Mexico is going to pay for the wall.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Let's begin this hour with Phil Mattingly, who is in Wilmington, Ohio, where that Trump rally was just a little while ago.

No doubt, Phil, his supporters were riled up. And as he mentioned, another "softening" in a radio interview today? Take me back to the head-spinning thing that you were -- the point you were making.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. It's been a 24 hours, that's for sure, an interesting 24 hours at that.

Look, if you watch Donald Trump's 75-minute speech, fiery 75-minute speech last night in Arizona, I wouldn't say softening would maybe be the best word to describe his immigration policy. But that's actually what Trump says. Take a listen to what he said in a radio interview with Laura Ingraham.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

TRUMP: Oh, they're softening. Look, we'd do it in a very humane way. And we're going to see with the people that are in the country -- obviously, I want to get the gang members out, the drug peddlers out. I want to get the drug dealers out. We want to -- we got a lot of people in this country that you can't have.

And those people, we will get out. And then we're going to make a decision at a later date once everything is stabilized. I think you are going to see there is really quite a bit of softening.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: Now, what Trump is specifically referring to is deportations. As you recall, early in his campaign, it was immediate deportation of all 11-plus million undocumented immigrants in this country.

He backed off that last night. As hard-line as that speech was, he wants to get the criminals out first, then folks who overstayed the visas. So, in some sense, softening maybe is a description, but overall no question about it, he doubled down on a very tough hard- line immigration policy, one that his supporters love, but, as you noted, some of his top Hispanic supporters pulling off today. Others maybe not so sure about it -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: Phil Mattingly, thank you for the setup.

Let's move on. And I will tell you that Hillary Clinton's running mate, Tim Kaine, issued some tough talk himself about Trump, saying he did not talk to the president of Mexico about how to fund a border wall.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TIM KAINE (D-VA), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think he didn't have the guts to bring it up. I think he kind of lost his will, lost his nerve, lost his confidence. That's not what you want to see from somebody who you are expecting to represent the country.

You got to be strong for your values. And he said this is the central pillar of the campaign. But then he kind of chickened out and choked when he got right to it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Estella Sneider is joining me, a naturalized American born in Mexico City who supports Donald Trump. And Wadi Gaitan is back with us today, a former spokesman for Florida state Republicans who left his job because of Donald Trump and moved on to being press secretary for the LIBRE Initiative.

[15:05:03]

So, nice to have both of you.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Estella, let me begin with -- Estelle -- excuse me.

You are a through and through Trump supporter. But let me ask you this, to my correspondent's point just then. Which Trump do you like the most let's say in the last 24 hours, the Trump in Mexico? The Trump in Phoenix? The Trump in Ohio?

ESTELLA SNEIDER, TRUMP SUPPORTER: I like them all.

As people, we all have different personalities according to who we are talking to. So basically he has -- Trump shows that he has the capacity to adapt the way he talks to the depending on who he is talking to.

BALDWIN: Listen, I agree with you. Even when you look at the president of the United States, he uses one tone depending on where he is. But it is one thing to change a tone. Isn't it a different thing to change a message?

SNEIDER: Well, I don't think he changed -- he changed his tone in Arizona because he was talking to the people of Arizona who have experienced many crimes by illegals.

And he wanted to make a strong point in all of the areas on immigration that he wants to bring changes. And, of course, in Mexico, he was talking to the people from Mexico, the president of Mexico, and he was being extremely kind and presidential and caring for the Mexican people, but staying true to the American people, America first.

BALDWIN: I guess when he was speaking in Arizona, I was thinking maybe he was speaking to the country as he is running for president and needs more votes and broadening the electorate.

SNEIDER: No question about it. But I think that even though he was talking to the country, we also know that there is certain states in the country who have suffered more from illegals, especially in sanctuary cities that protect people and illegals.

So basically their emotions are going to be heightened more than the rest of the country.

BALDWIN: Sure. Absolutely. Absolutely.

And, Wadi, you are listening to this conversation. We talked just the other day. But in watching Trump's speech last night in Phoenix, was there anything that he said that really sort of pleasantly surprised you?

(CROSSTALK)

WADI GAITAN, THE LIBRE INITIATIVE: Well, look, I understand something that I think the last two weeks people have been looking for. We have been waiting for the speech.

At the LIBRE Initiative, we have been talking to the community, we have been on the ground talking to the Hispanic community and what people were looking for is the right policy. The right policy is not one that says no to the border.

We understand that national security is important. We also understand that deportation is important, because we do have criminals that commit violent crimes that are here illegally. Those individuals do not deserve to stay. But beyond that, what people were really -- the policy that's right and that should have been laid out is one that says those who are contributing to our nation, maybe those people have overstayed their visas, or maybe those people were brought here by no fault of their own because they were children, those people should be allowed to stay because they are part now of our nation.

They are individuals who worship with us. They are people who work in high-tech. And that's the policy that they were looking for.

BALDWIN: So that's -- I'm listening really carefully.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Hang on. My question then is still the same. Was there anything that he said pleasantly surprised you, AKA, was there anything that he said that maybe moved you further to supporting him?

GAITAN: So, again, what we saw yesterday is the same principles and the same values, but with more details. But that's not what we were looking for.

We were looking for again policy beyond...

BALDWIN: So that's a no.

GAITAN: Correct.

So we got more details within his current principles and values. There was nothing new beyond the border and deportation of criminals. We actually need a pathway to legalization. It has to be an earned pathway. No one is asking for amnesty. We're talking about paying back taxes, paying a fee.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Go ahead, Estella.

SNEIDER: I have to tell you, but he did talk about pathway. Basically, Trump is saying all the illegals -- or I would like to say undocumented people, because I feel for my people. I was born in Mexico City and they don't like -- we don't like to be called illegals.

Basically, they refer to illegals because they cross the border undocumented and they committed an illegal act by not showing any documents or by overstaying in this country. So having said that, let me go back.

Besides the 60,000 to 70,000 criminals that are going to be deported and need to be deported to their country of origin, Trump wants to ask all of the rest following the law to leave the country and come back in a legal way.

And he said very clearly that, once he's president, he is going to set up biometrics and a way for them to come back in a legal way. After all, you know, when I came back to this country, I had a visa. I had to leave the country. I went to Mexico City. I got my package.

[15:10:03]

I came back in. And then I became an American resident. And then I proceeded to become a naturalized United States citizen.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: I understand. And you simply want others to do the same thing. You simply want others to do the same thing.

We continue to listen to what he says. For now, I just appreciate you both, Estella and Wadi. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, 68 days to go until Election Day.

The next question is this wall. How realistic is it to build Trump's wall? We will talk to former Homeland Security Chief and Arizona Governor Janet Napolitano. She will join me live.

Also ahead, the breaking news out of Miami Beach. These mosquitoes that scientists have now trapped and have been testing, well, guess what? They have now tested positive for the Zika virus. We have been reporting on a human transmission. But now this is news that, according to officials, this is the first conclusive evidence of Zika- carrying mosquitoes here in the United States.

Also ahead, other news out of Florida, millions of people and really Florida and beyond, people are in the path of this potential hurricane. A state of emergency has been declared. This hurricane is expected to make landfall in the coming hours. We will take you there live. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:15:24]

BALDWIN: Just into CNN here, the chief of police in Dallas will announce he will retire next month. Chief David Brown was thrust into the national spotlight after the deadly ambush of five of his own police officers.

He made the historic decision to use a bomb robot to kill the suspect in that massacre. We know Chief Brown later gave a powerful, powerful eulogy in honor of his slain colleagues. Here he is quoting Stevie Wonder.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID BROWN, DALLAS POLICE CHIEF: Until the rainbow burns the stars out of the sky, I'll be loving you. Until the ocean covers every mountain high, I'll be loving you. Until the dolphin flies and the parrots live at the sea, I'll be loving you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: The chief also earned attention after the ambush for asking critics of his department to sign up as recruits. By the way, hundreds in the city of Dallas responded. Chief Brown did not give a specific reason for his decision to retire.

And I can officially tell you now that Tropical Storm Hermine has now become Hurricane Hermine. Here's what I have. This is according to the National Hurricane Center. The maximum sustained winds here are now at 75 miles per hour, officially making this a Category 1 hurricane. Landfall is still expected in the Florida Panhandle around midnight tonight.

We were just talking to Boris Sanchez and his crew a bit ago in Apalachicola in the Panhandle area of Florida. And he said -- we saw the pictures of those boats along the shore, saying they really haven't had a hurricane in about 10 years. You are seeing the radar here swirling and swirling, looking for it to hit in a couple of hours, perhaps the early morning hours, to be more specific.

And then, of course, just think about your Labor Day plans all up and down the East Coast and some rain. We will be following it here. You can it along. Go to CNN.com.

We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:21:58]

BALDWIN: Breaking news out of Florida here when it comes to the Zika virus

We now know, according to officials, that mosquitoes carrying the virus have been identified in, of all places here, Miami Beach. Three mosquito samples tested positive for the virus. This is a big deal because this is the first conclusive proof of Zika-carrying mosquitoes in all of the United States.

These are samples, they were collected from the same area of Miami where the virus has been spreading.

So, I have got Dr. Sanjay Gupta with us. He's a CNN chief medical correspondent who has been covering Zika for a while now. We have been talking about human -- or people, I say, with Zika in Miami, but now we are talking, Sanjay, mosquitoes.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Brooke, that's exactly right.

And I will preface by saying, Brooke, that I think, in many ways, this was expected. We knew that there was what is known as locally transmitted Zika infections. And what that means is -- we have been talking about this for some time, is that we know that people who were getting Zika in the United States prior to what we have been seeing in Florida, they got it because they traveled to a place where Zika infection was located.

And they brought it back. But the thing that they have been on the lookout for, for some time is local transmission, meaning mosquitoes actually biting someone who has the Zika virus in their system, carrying the Zika virus in the mosquito's body, and then biting someone else. And that's local transmission.

They knew that it was happening because they already identified people who have not traveled and yet still had the infection. But now, as you point out, Brooke, they have found mosquitoes that also contain the Zika virus. Again, not surprising. It is a little stark reminder, but not a surprising one, because we knew that this was already happening.

BALDWIN: All right, Sanjay, thank you so much for jumping on the phone on the breaking news out of Miami Beach. Thank you for that.

Let's get back to politics here and Donald Trump. Donald Trump is doubling down on his signature campaign proposal to build that wall right along the U.S.-Mexico border. And he said it over and over. He wants Mexico to pay for it. In a major address on his immigration plan, Mr. Trump said that Mexico would pay for the wall 100 percent.

But the president of Mexico, with whom he met just yesterday, President Enrique Pena Nieto, says, no. Pena Nieto says that during his meeting with Trump behind those closed doors that he made it crystal clear that Mexico would not be footing the bill.

Trump, for his part, says the wall wasn't discussed. So, even so, here at CNN, we have been looking into what it would actually take, the feasibility, the practicality, to build a wall. Here is national correspondent Jason Carroll.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: You're talking about an area 1,954 miles stretching across California, Arizona, New Mexico, and right here in Texas, just about 100 yards away from Mexico.

The experts that we spoke say the way to go is precasted cement wall panels. Those panels would be lined side by side, sort of like what you might see on a highway. Each panel would be about 20-feet high, again, five feet below ground, about 10-feet wide, and eight-inches thick.

[15:25:05]

Again, that wall would be stretching some 2,000 miles. And our expert says it would require 339 million cubic feet of concrete. And that's just for the panels. You're also going to need reinforced steel, at least five billion pounds.

So, what about the estimated cost? Because it hasn't been done before, let's use those highway panels as an example. They cost about $40 a square foot. That would end up costing about $10.5 billion. Sounds like a lot of money, is a lot of money. But, again, remember, Donald Trump says the U.S. government wouldn't end up footing the bill on this one. It would be Mexico.

And what about the timing on all of this? How long would it take to build? According to our expert, if you are ambitious, you could get it done within a presidential term, four years.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: Jason Carroll, thank you.

Here she is. I'm joined by former Homeland Security Secretary and former Arizona Governor Janet Napolitano. She is now the president of the University of California system.

Secretary Napolitano, thank you so much for taking a minute with us. We appreciate it.

JANET NAPOLITANO, FORMER U.S. HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: Thank you.

BALDWIN: So, as someone who grew up in a border state, governed a border state, now lives in another border state, I have to ask you, what do you think of the wall?

NAPOLITANO: You know, we have heard the wall idea for years.

And I remember, in 2004, when I was the governor of Arizona, the wall idea was around. And I said basically, show me a 10-foot wall, I will show you a 12-foot ladder. That's not the way you do border enforcement. And the amount of resources it would divert from a real border plan

that involves more manpower, technology, air coverage, all the things that are now in place currently at the U.S.-Mexico border, and we know that illegal migration across that border is the lowest it's been in decades.

BALDWIN: Is there anything about Mr. Trump's immigration plans that seem admirable, palatable, realistic to you?

NAPOLITANO: Very little, to be quite frank.

And I will point out two other areas that I found unrealistic or unfair, not wise. One was to repeal the president's executive order allowing young people who have grown up in this country, who are here undocumented, to stay in this country. They get their education.

We have probably 3,500 or 4,000 of these so-called DACA students at the University of California. These are wonderful young people. They will contribute a lot to our country. They are the so-called dreamers. That's how they're known in the vernacular.

And it's -- it would be such a shame to repeal those orders. And a second area that I find I can almost say un-American is this idea that you are going to do an ideological test on people...

BALDWIN: Right, the screening.

NAPOLITANO: ... before they emigrate into the United States.

First of all, there is a lot of vetting that goes on, particularly from areas of the world that -- where there is a lot of conflict. And that's never reported on enough. But the amount of vetting that already occurs is quite substantial.

But how do you do an ideological test? That's not the way America has always viewed itself.

BALDWIN: Well, that's a question people are asking. I hear three examples of, to use your word, un-American ideas from Mr. Trump.

But what about his visit to Mexico? I have to ask you about that. We know the former Mexican President Vicente Fox called the current Mexican President Enrique Pena Nieto a traitor for even having Trump to the presidential palace, to Mexico. Do you think the current president got burned by Trump?

NAPOLITANO: I was surprised that he invited Mr. Trump.

And I will say this, however. If all they talked about was a wall, what a missed opportunity for Mr. Trump to actually engage in a substantive conversation with the president of Mexico on all of the issues that we share, for example, trade between the United States and Mexico.

It's the second or third leading trading partner with the United States. How do we operate those legal routes of traffic? How do we run the ports of entry along that 2,000-mile border. That's just one area where we have a lot to discuss with the leadership of Mexico.

BALDWIN: OK, so missed opportunity, you say.

What about Arizona? You have Sheriff Joe Arpaio, who said -- back to the wall -- who says he doesn't care who pays for this wall. Did the sheriff give Trump an out?

NAPOLITANO: You know, he may have. But...

BALDWIN: He may have.

NAPOLITANO: You know, I don't know. Sheriff Arpaio's been down there forever.

But, again, this is a sheriff now who is -- has been found --