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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Trump Rally in Ohio; Campaigns Hit Ohio. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired September 01, 2016 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00] JOE BIDEN, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: He believed it would be OK. He said, I'm going down with Uncle Frank down to Wilmington. There's jobs down here. I'll be back in a year. I'll come home every weekend, but I'll be back in a year. And we'll bring everybody down. Looking back on it as a young adult, I thought that must have been hard for him to tell me and my brothers. But what must have made it even harder is to walk into my grand pop's pantry and say, Ambrose (ph), the father of four men, four boys and my mother, and swallow your pride and say, can you take care of Jean and the kids for - for a year, but I promise I'll pay you back.

From that moment on, even though I was in fourth grade when we moved, I spent a lot of time going back home to Scranton, my dad would say - and at first I didn't understand it, but he'd repeat all the time, what you guys feel in your bones, he'd say, Joey, a job is about a lot more than a paycheck. It's about your dignity. It's about respect. It's about your place in the community. It's about who you are. My Grandfather Finnegan, Joey, remember, nobody, nobody is better than you. You can do anything anyone else can do.

You've heard that in our families. And our parents meant it. We learned about resilience. We learned that success is not about whether you get knocked down, it's about how quickly you get up. That's who we are. We get up. We don't break. We don't bend. We get up. That was my neighborhood. That's your neighborhood. And that's who the hell we are.

And look what you did. You got back up. You're now selling 17 million cars a year! Made in America! The most ever! You're making the best damn cars in the world again. You are the most productive workers in the world. That's not Joe Biden pro labor, that is a simple, natural fact. American workers are three times as productive by every study as Asian workers are.

I'm so sick and tired - I know I'm not supposed to get angry - but I'm so sick and tired of hearing people like Trump and the Chamber of Commerce, the national chamber, talking about we get paid too much. That we don't - give me a break. Give me a break. This is a guy born with a silver spoon in his mouth that now he's choking on because his foot's in his mouth along with a spoon.

So the message to all you kids, don't make any excuse for where you're from or who you are! Don't make any excuse for our insistence that we get paid a fair wage. That's why I - I like this guy behind me. And, by the way, you know, I know some of you are mad at Hillary. I know some of you look at her and say, let me tell you something, man, she gets it and she never yields. She does not break. She stands up.

You know what I like about them both the most? They know how to spell the word union, u-n-i-o-n, union. They know why we're who we are. They know who built the middle class. Hillary Clinton was the co-author of - co-sponsor of the car check legislation. That's not just - and, by the way, this stuff about us building a middle class does not just come from Joe Biden and Hillary and Ted and Tim. It's a fact. Everybody is beginning to figure it out. All these major, major think tanks are now beginning to figure it out.

There's an outfit called - there's an economic research institute called the Economic Policy Institute. They just put out a 57-page report that wonks like me end up reading. The headline of the report says, "union decline lowers wages for non-union workers." Now, remember how the Chamber of Commerce always go out to the non-union worker and say, the reason why you're not making more is because those union guys. They blame us. The only reason they had any benefits is because of unions, even though they're a non-union. So this report, 57 pages -- I commend it to the press. Here's the conclusion of the paper. It says, if organized labor was as strong today as it was in 1979, the whole country would be doing better. It says that non-union workers would be making on average $2,700 a year more on average if unions were as strong as they were.

[12:05:41] Ladies and gentlemen, we should be growing the labor movement. Trump and the Chamber of Commerce, in the last 12 years, have declared war on labor's house. Ted Strickland knows it. Hillary knows it. That's why she led the car check fight.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Well, the vice president just brought up Donald Trump while he's stumping for Hillary Clinton in Warren, Ohio. And guess who also is stumping in Ohio right now? One Donald Trump.

Hi, everyone. I'm Ashleigh Banfield. And I'm going to swap you right over to Wilmington, Ohio, where Donald Trump is starting his second major appearance of the day. Let's listen in and see what he has to say.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Going to Mexico or some other place. No good. We're not going to do it anymore, folks. We've been doing it for a long time. We're not going to do it any more. The media don (ph) a political complex that's bled this country dry, has to be replaced with a new government of, by and for the people.

And I will fight to ensure that every American is treated equally, protected equally and honored equally. We will reject bigotry and hatred and oppression in all its forms and seek a new future of security, prosperity and opportunity. A future built on our common culture and values as one American people.

I am asking for your vote so you can be our champion and so I can be your champion in the White House. I will be your champion. We will fight for victory. We will fight for real deals. We will fight for our vets. We're going to be fighting for a lot. We are going to be fighting. Believe me, we are going to be fighting. We're going to show the whole world that can't believe what happened

to our country that America is back, bigger and better and stronger than ever before. And in coming back, your jobs are coming back, believe me. Your jobs are coming back. To every parent who dreams for their children and to every child who dreams for their future, I say these words to you today. I am with you. I will fight for you. And I will win for you. We will all win together.

We will make America strong again. We will make America safe again. We will make America prosperous again. We will make America great again.

BANFIELD: And this is usually how Donald Trump ends his rallies, the famous line now emblazoned on hats, "make America great again." In Wilmington, Ohio, a very receptive group, a huge audience greeting him there for the fourth major event in just 24 hours.

I mean I don't know how he keeps up this pace. This is pretty remarkable. It was just yesterday he was supposed to be touching down in a foreign country at this very moment. And since that time, he's had a meeting with a foreign leader. He's had a major immigration speech last night. He's done the American Legion this morning, and now this rally in Wilmington.

My colleague, CNN's Phil Mattingly is at this event to keep us up to speed a little bit on what's - what was said when we were off on the Joe Biden event? We're hopscotching a lot of them and I don't want to miss any of the messages. Give me the highlights, Phil.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's right, Ashleigh. What we saw was, more or less, at least at the top, was Donald Trump's kind of regular stump speech. Not quite as aggressive as what we heard last night in Arizona. Yesterday, really kind of a day of two different Trumps, depending on where he was.

[12:10:04] But he did get into a lot of the themes that we heard last night in Arizona. And I'll tell you, Ashleigh, both in talking to people at this rally before Donald Trump started and in listening to him while he start - as he was talking, they're very excited about what they heard in Arizona. There's a lot of concern in the state of Ohio about whether Donald Trump can actually poll the number of Republicans he needs to win in his state. At least here in Clinton County, they're excited about Donald Trump, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: Phil Mattingly, I'm hearing that famous song behind you. That sort of signals all the handshakes and the wrap-up. But I guarantee you it's not the wrap-up of the message today.

I'm going to let you continue your work, watching that's happening there. In the meantime, I want to bring in my next guest, Sean Spicer, who's the communications director and chief strategist for the Republican National Committee.

Great to have you here on set. Thanks, Sean, appreciate it.

SEAN SPICER, RNC COMMUNICATIONS DIR., CHIEF STRATEGIST: Thanks for having me. BANFIELD: You have been busy.

SPICER: Well, not as busy as Donald Trump. As you mentioned, four speeches in 24 hours.

BANFIELD: Pretty remarkable.

SPICER: Yes. I mean he was - spoke very decisively and presidentially yesterday in Mexico, gave that immigration speech last night, got up this morning and spoke to the American Legion and now is having a rally. So -

BANFIELD: I need a nap just after you said that.

SPICER: I just - it tires you out just trying to keep up with his schedule and the amount of enthusiasm and excitement. But what is interesting -

BANFIELD: So - well, hold on though.

SPICER: Yes.

BANFIELD: Enthusiasm, unquestionably. You see these rallies and there is massive enthusiasm. But the message was very different. He did not say the things in the way in which he normally says them when he was down with the Mexican president. And there has been this sort of narrative that's come out of the tale of two Trumps. He says one thing when he's with them, trying to mollify perhaps and make sure that that's a positive photo op, and then comes back and throws that really strong (INAUDIBLE) last night about immigration.

SPICER: Yes. Look, I mean, let's - but let's just follow that. Everybody is different in different audiences. In other words, I mean the president of the United States, when he goes and has a very solemn event, he acts solemn. When he's on Martha's Vineyard having a vacation and doing certain things, he's relaxed. People are different in different environments. That's different than changing your position.

So, yes, when he was down in Mexico yesterday he looked presidential. Standing next to President Pena Nieto, he looked presidential. He talked about the United States and their shared - shared goals and - and areas of - of shared national interest. When he was at a rally, he was fired up, speaking the group. When he was at the American Legion this morning, he was talking about the need to reform the VA, in sharp contrast to Hillary Clinton.

So, I mean, but the point that's really interesting to me, from a political standpoint is, whether you're looking at the state polls or the national polls, it's not just the crowd size and the enthusiasm at the rallies, but it's all of these polls are now closing in major ways to Donald Trump's ways. Every single one of them is trending in his direction to the point where "The L.A. Times" has him up two, but most of them have him closing the gap in the last two weeks between five, seven more points. And that's just not the national level, it's at the state level, too. BANFIELD: You must have been thrilled with the Fox poll that came out

showing that that sizable lead that Hillary Clinton was enjoying after the Democratic Convention has shrunk. I mean there's two points between them now.

SPICER: Oh, yes. With all of them. (INAUDIBLE) right.

BANFIELD: So while that's great and while I'm sure that boy is not only the RNC, but also Trump's folks who have been working pretty feverishly, you still have all those swing state polls which are very, very troubling for you.

SPICER: No, that's not - look, again, I -

BANFIELD: Five different swing states she's way ahead.

SPICER: I know John Berman and I share - we're both Pats fans. We know how to come back in the fourth quarter and win a game. That's where we are. But, again, what you want is, you'd always rather be up than down. No question about that. But look at where the wind is right now. Every one of those polls, not just the national ones, but the state ones, the wind is at our back. So you look at Ohio, we're either tied or up, Florida, tied or up. Each one of those, North Carolina -

BANFIELD: No. No, that's not true.

SPICER: Oh, absolutely. Did you want to go through them?

BANFIELD: No, no, no, no, no, that's not true at all. In Florida, she's ahead by nine. In Ohio she's ahead by four.

SPICER: No, if you want to - look -

BANFIELD: Michigan, seven. Virginia, 16 she's ahead. Pennsylvania she's ahead by eight. Granted some of those polls are a few weeks old, but those are weeks he was planning -

SPICER: Hold on. Hold on. But - no, no, no, if you recall, but the one that just came out, the FAU poll has her down - has her down two to Trump in Florida.

BANFIELD: OK.

SPICER: So, again, if you want to cherry-pick polls, you can find him down.

BANFIELD: No, no, no.

SPICER: But if you want to go down these ones -

BANFIELD: Not cherry-picking. I'm curious -

SPICER: I can go down, Wisconsin, Iowa, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan, each one of them is trending in his direction.

BANFIELD: So these polls, while they're like a couple weeks old, those were the days, you look at those polls and you start planning your campaign appearances -

SPICER: Hold on.

BANFIELD: Wait, let me finish the question. You start planning your campaign appearances based on, oh, gees, we're - we're struggling a bit in Pennsylvania. We're struggling a bit in Florida. Why then would campaign appearances be in Georgia, blood red, Texas, blood red, and Washington state, super duper blue, where those are not worrisome questions.

SPICER: Gotcha. Great question.

BANFIELD: Yes.

SPICER: But let me just dispel one thing. First of all, the poll that just came out in Florida, not the two-week old one, not the one week old one, the one that came out two days ago, Clinton down 41-43 to Trump. So when you do look at the most recent polls, he's either trending forward or up. That two - second question, guess what most of those places are that you mentioned? Texas, that's where we raised the good chunk of our money from. So we have to find help -

BANFIELD: (INAUDIBLE).

SPICER: Hold on. But you look at where Hillary Clinton's been. Everyone wants to talk about where Trump's been. Look at where she's been, the Hamptons, Connecticut, Martha's Vineyard, Nantucket, Beverly Hills, Rhode Island. This is - I mean let's - let's - she hasn't been to any battleground state or any public place in a long time. He - he went to a foreign country -

BANFIELD: She was in Ohio yesterday.

SPICER: Hold on. Hold. He went to a foreign country yesterday and gave a speech -

BANFIELD: Well, that's important.

SPICER: Hold on.

[12:15:00] BANFIELD: You just said, she hasn't been to a swing state in a long - she was just in Ohio yesterday with a major speech.

SPICER: OK. Fair enough. So she's been in one.

BANFIELD: Yes.

SPICER: I'm sorry, I was too confused with whether she was in Beverly Hills or Nantucket.

But the reality is, is that she hasn't given a press conference in 261 days. What did he do? He went to a foreign country and gave one. I mean that's a big difference. He is out there engaging with the press, talking about his policies, talking about his ideas. You just mentioned four stops in four days.

BANFIELD: Let me ask you about that.

SPICER: All very public. She's in hiding.

BANFIELD: Let me ask you about something that happened since the meeting in Mexico and then the big announcement of policy last night in Arizona. It's somewhat backfired with some prominent Hispanic community members. The - one of the leaders of the Latino Partnership for Conservative Principles, Alfonso Aguilar, he said, I'm out. I'm walking from this. This is not what I wanted. He said he's be humane. And last night was tough, tough, tough and didn't talk about like treating people in a fair and humane way. And then also the - a member of the Trump Hispanic advisory council, according to Politico, Jacob Montoia (ph) - oh, excuse me, Jacob Mondi (ph) also resigned, same complaints. These are people who were in there, hanging in, and they were with him all the way until last night, until this -

SPICER: Right. And I think we'd love their support back. There's no question. We want more people to join this effort than less. And some people just have hope that he'll do something. But what he was last night was consistent, right? So he said everything that he said last night, which was exactly -

BANFIELD: No, they said the opposite, that the meeting they had he was softening, saying we want to - we want to do this humanly. They said that's not what happened last night.

SPICER: I - no, hold on, I understand what they said. No, no, I understand what they said. But what did he say. He said exactly what he has said from the get-go. He's been 100 percent consistent in terms of building a wall, that he's going to deal with the folks that are in this country, that he's going to deter future illegal immigration. What he said last night was consistent. I understand that some people believe that he was going to say something different. We'd love their support back, but he has been very, very consistent -

BANFIELD: Deportation force, which he told Joe and Mika ended up being deportation task force. So that's 100 percent different from 11 million got to go.

SPICER: No, no, no, it's still - the result is the same. In other words, he is saying, there's nothing unequivocal about the fact that we have to deal with people that are in the country illegally. So he is basically has changed nothing. He is talking about the mechanism might be a little bit different, or as we expand how to do this, to understand how we can use the current enforcement of ICE that isn't being tapped into right now of the immigrations and customs enforcement agency. But he has not changed his position on what's going to happen, whether it's how we're going to secure the border, how we're going to deter future illegal immigration, or how we're going to deal with the individuals that are here not legally. All of that is consistent. Not one.

It's Hillary Clinton, frankly, that hasn't laid out a plan, that hasn't talked to the press about her plan, and who's done all the flip-flops. We released a video yesterday that went flip-flop after flip-flop. She's been for a deportation task force, she's been against it. She's for kicking people out of the country, then she's against it. She has been 100 percent inconsistent with her positions depending on which - whatever way the wind blows. And the fact of the matter is, is that Trump, on the other hand, has been 100 percent consistent with how he is going to handle all these issues.

BANFIELD: Lest - lest you thought you were going to have a nice quiet Labor Day weekend, he's got a lot going on this weekend with the outreach to the minority community in Detroit. So we'll tap you next week and get some reaction to that.

SPICER: You bet. Look forward to seeing you.

BANFIELD: And I hope you do get at least a picnic or something in. Thank you, Sean. Good seeing you.

SPICER: Maybe a burger.

BANFIELD: You can bring one for us. Thanks, Sean. Nice to have you, as always.

Coming up, Donald Trump may be firing up supporters of his immigration stance, but Hillary Clinton is firing back, and she's doing it in a real tough way. She says she's - his trip to Mexico was a, quote, failure, and she's saying his deportation tactics will tear families apart. We're going to talk about that in just a moment live from the campaign trail.

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[12:22:14] BANFIELD: Donald Trump today in battleground Ohio. He's just been wrapping up a rally in Wilmington and earlier he spoke to veterans in a prepared Teleprompter speech at the American Legion's national convention. That's where Hillary was yesterday. But last night, in Phoenix, it was textbook Trump, total fire. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: On day one, we will begin working on an impenetrable, physical, tall, powerful, beautiful southern border wall.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Our politics executive editor Mark Preston is on the left of your screen. Political analyst Jackie Kucinich in the middle. And Philip Bump, political reporter for "The Washington Post" on the right. And the positions have nothing to do with their ideologies. Let me be clear about that.

It's been described as Trump is keeping the foot on that gas -

MARK PRESTON, CNN POLITICS EXECUTIVE EDITOR: Right.

BANFIELD: From last night's big announcements of policy, the ten-point layout this morning with the veterans, and just now, as he was wrapping up in Ohio, Mark, do we expect this to be the definitive message, no more changes, no more strange softenings and hardenings and kindness and love and good people, just what we heard last night will be repeated?

PRESTON: Let me definitively say we have no idea. It does (ph). This campaign has been very much dictated by that. And Trump himself, in an interview this morning, said that, in fact, he is - what are we all talking about, he did soften his stance last night.

However, if you were to look at the first part of the day where he went to Mexico, he talked about inclusion, he talked about mutual goals, he talked about making Mexico great again and making America great again and we're all in it together, and then just a few hours later getting on an airplane, going to Arizona, and then going - starting out his speech saying, Mexico will pay for the wall. Believe me, they will. They just don't know it yet. Who knows?

BANFIELD: So, to that, Jackie, he said that the paying for the wall didn't come up between the Mexican president and himself. And as soon as he was on the plane and gone, the Mexican president said indeed it sure did. I said right at the beginning of our meeting, I ain't paying for the wall. I'm paraphrasing him. But the former president was even more strident in his characterization of what happened yesterday in Mexico. So here's Vincente Fox on "New Day" this morning. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VICENTE FOX, FORMER MEXICAN PRESIDENT: Really it's incredible how a man can play with public opinions in both sides. He comes to Mexico. He plays a totally different music. Very diplomatic. Very easy and soft talk. Very non-content, no content at all. And he comes back to the states and then he comes back to his very old now message relying his whole campaign on that wall. It's incredible.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[12:25:12] BANFIELD: Jackie, Sean Spicer with the RNC just said, yes, because when you're with different groups you have different addresses and different tone and different message. That's not unusual for any candidate.

JACKIE KUCINICH, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: But all you need to - all you need to see is how many members of his Hispanic advisory council are dropping off today to see -

BANFIELD: Well, only one that I know of.

KUCINICH: Well, there's three - there's three and CBS is reporting that half of them might go by the end of the day. So there - there is reaction. That's not normal. You don't - he doesn't usually give a speech and then lose a bunch of supporters. That's not the direction he wants to go. So, that - that is - I mean, so, yes, sometimes you do - they - politicians do do that, but I think how drastic it was. He looked in the - looked at the Mexican president and said, we're friends, it's great, you know, we're going - we're going to work through this. We're going to negotiate. BANFIELD: Wonderful people.

KUCINICH: Wonderful people. And then, a couple hours later, he's - he made him look foolish, frankly. He said, you know, they don't know they're paying for it yet, but they are. I mean no wonder he's so angry.

BANFIELD: So, Philip, let me ask you a little bit more about something that was said last night. We - I think a lot of people tend to think immigration immediately from the southern border.

PHILIP BUMP, POLITICAL REPORTER, "WASHINGTON POST": Right.

BANFIELD: But he also addressed who gets in, whether they're on a plane, a boat or on foot.

BUMP: Right.

BANFIELD: And he talked a lot about sort of the ideological certifications, et cetera.

BUMP: Right.

BANFIELD: Have a listen to what - to what he actually said when he was in Phoenix last night about vetting. Vetting would be immigrants and what would be asked of these immigrants. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Another reform involves new screening tests for all applicants that include, and this is so important, especially if you get the right people, and we will get the right people, an ideological certification to make sure that those we are admitting to our country share our values and love our people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: I am going to admit it, it's very hard to find out if someone really loves you. That was my whole college mission. It didn't work. But, look, as fun and games as it tends to be when people want to criticize the ideological tests that Donald Trump talks about, there are a lot of people in this country who are bloody angry -

BUMP: Right.

BANFIELD: At those who have come in here, get arrested and end up, you know, having material sport for terrorism as their charge. So what he's saying, he may not articulate it exactly the way everyone wants to hear it, but it's something that bothers a lot of people.

BUMP: Yes. Well, I think it's important to distinguish, we have the situation where there are people who are seeking refugee status, who it is very hard for us to do background checks on because, as the FBI director has said under testimony that we don't have background information on people in Syria, like we did in Iraq. We've been in Iraq for a long time. We know a lot more about the people that are there.

BANFIELD: And, by the way, it's happened in Europe.

BUMP: Sure.

BANFIELD: They've been wolves in sheep's clothing.

BUMP: Absolutely.

BANFIELD: They come in as refugees and they've been deemed to be bombers.

BUMP: Absolutely. So that's one thing.

The other thing, though, is what Donald Trump was talking about last night. He's sort of blended his December call to ball all Muslims with his immigration call. And that's really what he's talking about. He's talking about having some sort of extreme vetting where he weeds people out. In another point in his speech, he also sort of implied that he would take the H1B visa status, which mandates that you have a special skill, he's sort of said that that was going to be what his filter was for allowing people in the country. He did not provide specifics on what it was that was going to be the qualification set that was required to enter the United States. And I think you sort of have to take it on faith. If you're a Trump supporter, this extreme vetting concept, you know, it's a very '90s term, but you sort of have to take it on faith that there is a way to do this that seems impractical.

BANFIELD: Yes, let me tell you, as somebody who worked here for many, many years under an H1B, it was really hard.

BUMP: Yes.

BANFIELD: I struggled mightily and I have this - a unique skill that was very clearly outlined. It was very, very hard already to get into this country on the H1B visa. It took me months and months and months. I won't get into it and I won't bore you. But, thank you, all three of you. It's great to have you. I appreciate it.

BUMP: Sure.

KUCINICH: Thank you.

BANFIELD: Mark Preston, Jackie Kucinich and Philip Bump, it's not the last you're going to see of them.

A programming note for you this Sunday. A "Fareed Zakaria GPS" exclusive. President Obama is going to talk with Fareed and he's going to get the president's take on what is driving Donald Trump's supporters. Sort of the fly on the wall inside the White House. That should be great. All that and more this Sunday, 10:00 a.m. Eastern Time, right here on CNN.

But coming up next on this program, pre-launch, a test goes very wrong and this is the result. The pictures, it's not a cloudy day, it is smoke. This is live. It's the aftermath of a massive explosion on the launch pad at Cape Canaveral this morning. And it's a SpaceX rocket. Find out what was on board, where it was supposed to go and what this means for the space program, for the astronauts who take off from that launch pad.

Also, we're watching some live pictures out of Florida. Again, Florida. A tropical storm now headed that way. Is it likely to turn into a hurricane? It's got a name, Hermine. Just how bad might she be?

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