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WORLD RIGHT NOW WITH HALA GORANI
Trump Takes Tough Line On Immigration; Stark Contrast Between Trump Speech And Visit To Mexico; Spacex Rocket Explodes At Cape Canaveral Launch Pad; Russia To Take Center Stage At G20 Summit; European Families Open Homes To Refugees; Apple CEO Vents Anger On E.U. Ruling; Little Sympathy For Apple At Berlin Electronics Show; New Exhibit Showcases Pink Floyd's Life Story.
Aired September 1, 2016 - 15:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
HALA GORANI, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Hala Gorani. We are live from CNN London, and this is THE WORLD RIGHT NOW.
"We will not apologize for America anymore." Donald Trump keeping up the tough talk today after a fiery speech on immigration.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Don't worry, we're going to build that wall. That wall will go up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Trump repeated his promise that he would build a wall and force Mexico to pay for it at a rally in Ohio. He re-energized his base last
night by promising a crackdown on illegal immigration.
This was one of the most dramatic moments when parents whose children were killed by undocumented immigrants took the stage. Trump's message was
clear, he was saying, be afraid, this is your last chance, illegal immigrants are a dangerous threat.
But as Sunlen Serfaty reports it was a stark contrast to what we saw just hours earlier when Trump visited Mexico.
TRUMP: There will be no amnesty.
SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN CORRESPONENT (voice-over): Donald Trump recommitting to a fired-up, no-mercy stance on illegal immigration.
TRUMP: For those here illegally today who are seeking legal status, they will have one route and one route only. To return home and apply for
reentry like everybody else under the rules of the new legal immigration system.
SERFATY: The billionaire vowing to swiftly expel millions who have overstayed their visas and undocumented criminal.
TRUMP: I'm going to create a new special deportation task force focused on identifying and quickly removing the most dangerous criminal illegal
immigrants in America who have evaded justice, just like Hillary Clinton has evaded justice, OK? Maybe they'll be able to deport her.
SERFATY: Insisting he will detain and remove anyone caught crossing the border.
TRUMP: We are going to end catch and release.
SERFATY: And force other countries to take back their citizens who have been ordered to leave the U.S.
TRUMP: There are at least 23 countries that refuse to take their people back after they've been ordered to leave the United States. Not going to
happen with me, folks. Not going to happen with me.
SERFATY: And declaring he will block funding from the 300-plus so-called sanctuary cities across the country.
TRUMP: Cities that refuse to cooperate with federal authorities will not receive taxpayer dollars.
SERFATY: But Trump is not saying how he would deport all undocumented immigrants living in the U.S.
TRUMP: Only the out of touch media elites think the biggest problem facing America is that there are 11 million illegal immigrants who don't have
SERFATY: As for anyone who wants to live and work here --
TRUMP: To choose immigrants based on merit, merit, skill, and proficiency.
SERFATY: Trump says they will be up against extreme vetting.
TRUMP: We are going to suspend the issuance of visas to any place where adequate screening cannot occur. Another reform involves new screening
tests for all applicants that include an ideological certification to make sure that those we are admitting to our country share our values and love
SERFATY: Trump also renewing his commitment to build a wall along the U.S. border with Mexico.
TRUMP: And Mexico will pay for the wall, 100 percent. They don't know it yet, but they're going to pay for the wall.
SERFATY: Hours earlier, a more measured and softer tone on display as Trump met with Mexican President Enrique Pena Nieto.
TRUMP: We did discuss the wall. We didn't discuss payment of the wall.
SERFATY: But after Trump left the country, President Pena Nieto disputes that, tweeting, quote, "From the start of the conversation, I made it clear
Mexico will not pay for that wall.
[15:05:12]GORANI: OK. Well, two very different accounts there. That's not the only sign that the public remarks may not tell the whole story.
After Trump left, President Nieto of Mexico took a much harder line and in an interview slamming Trump's policies as a threat to Mexico.
Let's bring in CNN political analyst, Jackie Kucinich. She is Washington bureau chief for "The Daily Beast." We are also joined by our CNN
political director, David Chalian.
Let's first put together two series of sound bites from Donald Trump, a few from his speech in Arizona and a few from his appearance in Mexico City
before I get to you. Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We did discuss the wall. We didn't discuss payment of the wall. That will be for a later date. This was a very preliminary meeting. A lot
of the things I said are strong, but we have to be strong, we have to say what's happening.
And Mexico will pay for the wall. They don't know it yet, but they're going to pay for the wall.
There is crime, as you know. There is a lot of crime and a lot of problems, but I think together we'll solve those problems.
Zero tolerance for criminal aliens. Zero. Zero.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: All right. Jackie Kucinich, it's like two different people, isn't it?
JACKIE KUCINICH, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, it is a little bit of a Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde presidential campaign edition. Because you're
absolutely right, when Donald Trump was in Mexico, he was extremely measured, for Donald Trump, and he actually sounded like he could be a
candidate for president.
Whereas when he went to Arizona, he sounded like the Donald Trump that we've heard since the primaries. That seems to be more of his comfort zone
and where he keeps going back to.
The problem is we're in the general election, and he's trying to attract more people to his camp, and with rhetoric like he used last night, it's
not going to happen.
He had several of his Hispanic advisory council leave today. There might be more by the end of the day. So they're going the wrong direction right
GORANI: But David Chalian, what was the strategy behind visiting Mexico and being a lot more measured in what he said and saying we discussed the
wall. We didn't talk about who would pay for it, and then literally hours later saying what he said about the wall and undocumented immigrants?
DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Right. Well, you know, I think there's a debate over the word "discussion." Whenever you're in a debate
on word choice, you're not on message with where you want to be with your presidential campaign.
Listen, I think the strategy was quite clear to go to Mexico, Hala. It was to have a presidential moment and I think he did have that, visually and
optically, to dominate much of the day leading up to the speech.
What was so strange was to come out in the speech with this entirely different tone that undercut his stated strategy from his campaign advisers
about the Mexico trip. It just didn't seem to be part of one cohesive tragic.
GORANI: Right. Jackie Kucinich, that's also what I wanted to ask you so he was clearly speaking too his base, his supporters, not trying to expand
support to sort of undecided middle of the road voters, when he addressed the crowds in Arizona, right? So why not try to do that at this stage?
We're only weeks away.
KUCINICH: I think his advisers would like him to do that. But as we've seen and heard from inside the camp, he's not someone who is very easy to
control. A very different Donald Trump who is on the teleprompter than one who sort of free reeling in front of the rally.
And at a lot of these rallies, he gets as excited as the crowds and he starts to play to them. You watch enough of these, you really see it
happening. So he just doesn't have the discipline that we've seen in a normal presidential candidate.
GORANI: Well, let's talk about the polls, because the latest CNN poll of polls, David Chalian, is actually very interesting and certainly not good
news for Hillary Clinton supporters, because the gap between the two candidates, while still giving Hillary Clinton a lead, is narrowing.
Let's take a look at the latest one here and we have choice for president, this is in a four-way race, Hillary Clinton 42 percent, Donald Trump 37
percent. So this is actually going in the right direction for Donald Trump, David.
CHALIAN: Yes, this is an average of polls over the last three weeks or so. And I think it's pretty simple to look at sort of the state of the race and
where we are. This is about where we were before the conventions.
After the conventions, Hillary Clinton had a strong convention and followed immediately by a terrible spiral downward for Donald Trump off of the
controversy with the gold star family, the Khan family.
I think what has happened now is that he has stabilized his free fall. Her unfavorables continue to persist, they're not getting a ton better despite
her initial convention bounce.
[15:10:06]And so the race has returned to this five to seven-point national advantage for Clinton, which is certainly not in the way of putting the
race away, not that anyone needs to put the race away today, we've still got nine weeks to go.
GORANI: And Jackie, of course, this is not a national vote in the way we have here in Europe. It's about swing states. What's the situation like
for Hillary Clinton? Is the gap also narrowing in important states like Ohio, Florida, and Virginia?
KUCINICH: It's fluctuated. She has been up. One place that's been particularly interesting is actually Pennsylvania. It's a state that a lot
of Republicans have tried to capture over the last couple of presidential cycles, and it's evaded them.
She's up, last time I looked, seven points, I think. So that's why you saw Joe Biden where he was in Ohio, in Youngstown, Ohio, a very white, working
class part of Ohio.
And it's somewhere that actually Barack Obama won. So -- and Joe Biden really speaks to that demographic. I think you're going to see him a lot
in areas like that where she needs to capture.
GORANI: All right, Jackie Kucinich, David Chalian, thanks as always. Great having you both on the program. We appreciate it.
CHALIAN: Thank you.
GORANI: Now proposing all these sweeping changes is one thing. Putting the policies into practice is quite another. How do you round up and
deport 11 million people? Still to come this hour, we will break down Trump's immigration plans and speak with an expert about how practical they
Now to this, in a setback for the company that sees itself as the future of space travel, Spacex CEO Elon Musk says he still hasn't figured out what
caused a rocket to explode on the launch pad at Cape Canaveral today. There is nothing left of the rocket.
Take a look at the aftermath pictures, the thick, black plume of smoke. Nothing left either of the satellite it was supposed to launch into orbit
The satellite was designed to deliver the internet from space in a partnership between Facebook and a French company. Now the Facebook CEO,
Mark Zuckerberg, is expressing disappointed over the loss.
Understandably saying the satellite, quote, "would have provided connectivity to so many entrepreneurs and everyone else across the
continent," so that is clearly a setback.
Let's get an insider's perspective on what happened at Cape Canaveral. I'm joined now by former NASA astronaut, Leroy Chiao via Skype from Houston.
So what did happen here? Because this was catastrophic, Leroy.
LEROY CHIAO, FORMER NASA ASTRONAUT: Right. So what they were getting ready for, they may have started, was the hot fire test, where a day or two
before launch they'll actually fuel up the first stage booster and light up the engines and make sure that everything is working properly before the
This was planned and routine. What's not clear is if that test actually started before the explosion. But obviously a major mishap here, as you
said, nothing left of the vehicle or the payload.
So they'll be doing a very thorough investigation, looking at all the video they can, looking at all the data they were receiving from the vehicle to
try to piece together what happened, find that root cause and make the fixes to make sure it doesn't happen again.
GORANI: Right, because you need -- of course, this is a big failure and certainly a huge disappointment. We heard from Mark Zuckerberg as well,
because this was meant to service his company in collaboration with a French company as well. You have to look at the lessons learned here.
Typically what happens next in terms of the investigation into what went wrong?
CHIAO: They'll form an investigation team. I'm sure that's already been done or almost finished. They'll be heading out to the cape if they're not
already there, to gather all the evidence that they can.
They're looking for physical evidence. They'll be picking up as much of the debris as we can. They'll be reviewing the videotapes, any kind of
video that exists. They'll be looking at all the data from the instruments that were being recorded from the vehicle.
So a team is going to be very experienced, I'm sure. I'm confident that they'll soon come to a root cause, just as they did during the last
failure, very experienced people in this line of work. I'm hoping it will be sooner rather than later.
GORANI: Yes, well, certainly. And I can imagine the people who worked for so long trying to get this satellite into orbit are having a terrible day.
How long does it take until a new vehicle is built? This is years? I mean, this isn't obviously you can kind of come back from in a matter of
CHIAO: Right. So typically to build a rocket, it's somewhere around a year to two years of lead team, but there are different rockets in
different stages of assembly. It's possible they could work out a swap. There could be other satellites ready if there was another built.
I'm not sure if this was a series of satellites or a one-shot test. If it was one of a series, maybe the next one could be ready sooner rather than
later. At any rate, I'm sure the payload was insured, the satellite was insured.
[15:15:09]But as you say, it's a matter of time. The investigation has to occur. They have to find that root cause found, make their fixes. The
launch pad is obviously been damaged. They are going to have assess that. They'll need to figure out what needs to be fixed there. It's going to be
sometime. They'll be down for at least a few months.
GORANI: Thank you, Leroy Chiao in Houston, a former NASA astronaut, with more on that Spacex rocket explosion.
By the way, we're monitoring this for you. New Zealand is issuing a tsunami warning after a powerful earthquake struck off of its coast. The
quake was, in terms of magnitude, pretty high, 7.1.
A local warning has been issued after wave height measuring 30 centimeters was measures at East Cape a short time ago, and 30 centimeters is not much,
The epicenter was in the ocean, 170 kilometers east of the country's north island. If anything happens in terms of tsunami warnings being lifted or
threat level change to New Zealand, we'll bring it to you. But we'll take a short break for now.
Still to come, we remember Alan Kurdi, a name difficult to pronounce for some people, one year after the Syrian 3-year-old drowned while trying to
get to Greece and became the symbol of many children facing the perils of migration.
Also coming up, a tiny island way out in the middle of the Pacific Ocean is about to get a very important guest. Why midway has become the front line
in a major environmental battle.
GORANI: It's an image that is as terribly shocking now as it was when the world first saw it a year ago. It's hard to believe a year has gone by,
isn't it? I'm talking that photo of a 3-year-old Syrian refugee, Alan Kurdi, his small body lying face down after washing up on a Turkish beach.
It sparked an international outcry and became a symbol of the desperation of refugees. But what has changed since then for children fleeing
conflict? Atika Shubert looks at that. A warning, we'll be showing that haunting image in her report.
ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's been one year since the number of boats arriving in Greece reached
staggering levels, forcing Europe to open its doors to refugees.
One year since this, 3-year-old Alan Kurdi's lifeless body was found on a beach in Turkey, drowned as he fled Syria for Europe. An image that
shocked the world and the grieving Kurdi family made this plea.
TIMA KURDI, ALAN KURDI'S AUNT: Abdullah told me his message to the world. My kids is a wake-up call for the whole world.
[15:20:05]I hope now the whole world will step in and help other refugees.
SHUBERT: What has changed in that year? The Syria war still rages. Nearly 5 million have been forced to flee Syria. More than a million of
them are children.
Only a few weeks ago, 5-year-old Omran Daqneesh was photographed in the aftermath of a barrel bombing. Like Alan, this image of a confused and
injured boy covered in dust became an iconic symbol.
But this time, Europe's doors are closing, after more than a million refugees entered the country. Germany and other E.U. states quietly
pressured Greece and the Balkan states to close their borders.
In Greece, once a doorway to Europe, nearly 28,000 children are now stranded. More than 2,000 are unaccompanied. No parents, no family to
steer them through safely.
In March, Turkey and the E.U. agreed to a contentious one-in, one-out deal, aimed at resettling Syrian refugees while making financial and political
concessions to Ankara.
The number of people crossing the Aegean Sea has dropped from 10,000 at its peak to virtually none on most days. Even for those who do manage to get
to Europe, a happy ending isn't guaranteed.
In Germany alone, local officials report 9,000 unaccompanied minors are now missing, many teenagers that have run away from their shelters.
From Alan Kurdi to Omran Daqneesh, what has changed for the thousands of children fleeing Syria's war? Sadly, not very much. Atika Shubert, CNN,
GORANI: As Atika mentioned, those border closures are having a major impact. According to the International Organization for Migration, fewer
people are attempting the dangerous journey across the Mediterranean since last year.
But horribly, though, those who die trying to get to Europe by sea have increased. More than 272,000 refugees and migrants have made the crossing
so far this year. More than 3,100 refugees and migrants didn't make it and are now presumed dead or are missing.
In Syria, government forces are once again striking back after rebels launched a major assault in Hamad Province. According to a monitoring
group, opposition fighters have come under heavy air attack as fighting rages.
The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights says that in all of this, as is pretty much always the case, civilians have been killed, 25, they say,
including children. The U.N.'s envoy for Syria wants to speed up talks.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STAFFAN DE MISTURA, U.N. SPECIAL ENVOY FOR SYRIA: They are important in the sense that they are part this ongoing -- we wish there would be faster
discussions between Russians and Americans on the follow-up on what wars the so-called understanding which took place in Moscow between Sergei
Lavrov, President Putin, and John Kerry.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: All right, so of course talk and more talk, but so far nothing tangible for the people of Syria. Russia has become a major player in the
civil war. And its relations with the west have become increasingly strained following the conflict in Ukraine and its annexation of Crimea.
With that angle, here is CNN's Matthew Chance.
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Uncertainty is a powerful weapon. On the eve of the G20 Summit, war
ravaged Eastern Ukraine is again in its grip. Overnight shelling and casualties there are on the rise.
Worrying signs of new Russian military activity. Heavy armor has been spotted moving into Crimea, annexed by Russia in 2014, as world leaders
prepare to meet in China. Renewed tensions here will be difficult to ignore.
MARIA LIPMAN, POLITICAL ANALYST CARNEGIE: I would say Russia wants this as its bargaining power. Having everyone on the alert, having everyone
uncertain of what Russia's real intentions are, having fears that there may be a large scale war, a full-fledged war between Russia and Ukraine.
CHANCE: In the past, G-20 meetings have seen Russia rebuked. Remember Brisbane in 2014, when Russia's president sanctioned over Crimea was
shunned by his peers. This little chance of a repeat in China, Beijing has already declared Putin guest number one.
(on camera): For a while after Crimea, talk in the west was of Russian isolation, painful U.S. and European sanctions ramming home the
consequences for Moscow of violating international rules.
[15:25:03]But Russia appears to have staged a comeback on the global stage, transforming itself into a power the G20 simply can't ignore even if they
(voice-over): That transformation is most vivid in Syria, where Russian air power has shifted the military balance towards its ally, Bashar al-
TRUMP: By the way, wouldn't it be nice if we got along with Russia?
CHANCE: Russia has even emerged as an important issue in the U.S. presidential campaign, not exactly super power status but a state to be
LIPMAN: So Russia is not in (inaudible) with the United State, but it has reestablished itself on the world scene as a very important player, as a
player that's, you know, on front pages and on the minds of all the most important politicians of the world.
CHANCE: And the latest tensions in Ukraine are set to keep it that way, pressuring the west to ease its sanctions and reminding the G-20 of
Russia's crucial role. Matthew Chance, CNN, Moscow.
GORANI: President Barack Obama is about to hop on a flight from Hawaii. You can see Air Force One fueled up and ready to go in these live pictures.
His destination is the Midway Atoll, a tiny island in the middle of the Pacific Ocean. It's famous for a pivotal battle in World War II. Now it
finds itself on the front line in the fight against another kind of battle, the one against plastic waste threatening marine wildlife.
Our Nick Paton Walsh recently visited Midway for a documentary you'll be able to see on CNN later this month. He's not on that tiny island, he's on
assignment in Gaziantep, Turkey, where he joins us live, to talk about his reporting from Midway.
And some of the things that you see in the bellies and the inside of the marine wildlife is staggering. It gives you a sense of the scope of the
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. This is the place where Hawaiians believe life came from, and where you go
back to where they die. Barack Obama has just declared it a large national marine reserve.
Now, on the shores of that supposedly pristine place, you find toothbrushes. I found a motorcycle helmet, a mannequin's head, umbrella
handles. They weren't left there by people. They washed ashore from thousands of miles away, from North America or Asia joining what everybody
calls the great pacific gyre, a plastic trash floating.
But it hits the shores of Midway, and there you can actually see it. We're talking potentially about there being more plastic by weight in the oceans
by 2050 than actual biomass itself, fish or living creatures. Here is a taste of the documentary we'll be releasing in the weeks ahead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Every single albatross you see across this landscape has been fed plastic. As you open it up, you can see all that plastic
that's inside this bird.
WALSH: That's incredible.
(on camera): Every time you throw away a piece of plastic, it can be felt here in paradise. This is Midway Island in the Pacific Ocean, halfway
between North America and Asia. It's one of the most remote places on the planet and one of the hardest hit by pollution. CNN gained rare access to
the island to see the shocking toll of our daily habits.
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Tomorrow I'm going to go to Midway to visit the vast marine area that we just created.
WALSH: Barack Obama has just declared the area including Midway a national wildlife refuge, making it one of the largest protected areas on the
planet, but it's too late for parts of it. Your coffee cup, water bottle, toothbrush, may all float miles to end up on the shores.
And inside these birds, the blubber of these seals, and in the water these dolphins call home. (Inaudible) island endured World War II as the site of
the historic victory by the U.S. over Japan is placed now finds itself on another front line, the fight against plastic waster on the planet.
However remote it may seem here, the toxins floating in these waters may take an unknown toll on your body too.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Three billion people rely on the ocean for their food.
WALSH: Do you eat sushi yourself?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not as often as I used to.
WALSH: Now remember here, we're talking about miles away from humanity. Why does this matter to you? The plastic ends up in the fish. Scientists
have proved that that plastic damages fish tissue potentially their reproductive health too. Scientists are trying to work out now whether or
not that damage could be translated to you when you eat things out of the ocean.
This is a human health question potentially too as well as one that is causing unbelievable irreversible damage. We can't even really fathom yet
to the oceans that 3 billion people live off of -- Hala.
GORANI: All right, just unbelievable, Victor. Thanks very much, Nick Paton Walsh. This documentary will air in the coming weeks on CNN.
This is THE WORLD RIGHT NOW. Coming up, tough talk, but are Donald Trump's immigration policies even workable? I'll break them down with an
immigration expert in a few minutes.
And the power of a photograph, the United Nations hopes these images will inspire Europeans to open their hearts and their homes to help refugees in
need. We'll be right back.
GORANI: A look at our top stories, Donald Trump is keeping up the tough talk today after a fiery speech on immigration. The Republican
presidential candidate says there will be no amnesty for undocumented immigrants in the U.S.
He also repeated his promise that Mexico will pay for a border wall, even though hours earlier Mexico's president said he personally told Trump just
Spacex still doesn't know what caused its rocket to explode during a test firing on a launch pad at Cape Canaveral. There's nothing left of the
rocket or the satellite. It was supposed to launch into orbit on Saturday. That's a look at the aftermath there from Florida.
Speaking of Florida, it is bracing itself as a hurricane hurdles toward its coast. Hermine was upgraded to a Category 1 hurricane. Winds up to 75
miles per hour. The governor in Florida has activated 100 National Guard soldiers with 6,000 police on alert. Georgia has declared a state of
emergency for 56 counties in preparation for landfall.
Demonstrators for and against Venezuela's president are pouring onto the streets of Caracas. Take a look at a rally of supporters for Nicolas
Maduro. Meanwhile, his opponents are seeking a recall vote aimed at removing him from office. They blame him for shortages in food and medical
supplies, rolling blackouts, and a surge in crime.
Donald Trump is doubling down on his hard line immigration policy, just hours after a more conciliatory tone when he met with Mexico's president.
Now, he gave a fiery speech outlining his plans. He said anyone who is in the United States illegally would be subject to deportation.
[15:35:04]He also repeated his promise to build a wall along its southern border and quote, "Mexico will pay for it, 100 percent," and he mentioned
the creation of a new special deportation task force.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We are going to triple the number of ICE deportation offices. Within ICE, I am going to create a new
special deportation task force focused on identifying and quickly removing the most dangerous criminal illegal immigrants in America who have evaded
justice, just like Hillary Clinton has evaded justice, OK?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Well, let's get a look at those policies with Raul Reyes. He is an attorney and a CNN opinion writer, and he joins me from New York.
Thanks for being with us. One of the things that Donald Trump told Anderson Cooper was, look, law enforcement knows exactly who the drug
dealers are. They know exactly who the criminals are, but simply that there hasn't been the will to enforce the laws to remove them from the
territory when they are undocumented immigrants. Is that true?
RAUL REYES, CNN OPINION WRITER: Well, he could be talking about the political will. I think a better way of characterizing it is that we
haven't had enough consensus about what to do about the problem.
Typically what happens in the United States we have attempted some type of immigration reform in 2006, 2007, 2013, but it always gets bogged down
inevitably in the very complicated details.
For example, you mentioned, Donald Trump's signature issues to build this wall. That alone is very difficult when you are looking at the topography
of where he wants to build a wall, our southern border with Mexico.
The terrain is very extreme. We have harsh weather conditions. A lot of that land where the wall could go is in private hands. It is connected
with some Native American lands. So the government would have to exercise eminent domain, basically a forcible taking of that land, which would
result in lawsuits.
So even if Donald Trump were to become president and wanted to institute this wall, it would likely be several years before it even became legally
feasible to do so.
GORANI: What about the funding for it?
REYES: Well, that's another big problem. Right now, Donald Trump estimates that his wall would cost between $10 billion and $12 billion,
whereas many other outside experts and sources such as "The Washington Post" put the cost at $25 billion.
Meanwhile, our total aid to Mexico is something like $55 million. So there's a huge shortfall in how it's going to be paid. There remains the
question of whether or not Mexico would indeed pay for this.
GORANI: What about the legality or the practical aspect of rounding up and removing people from the territory who are there illegally. Let's not talk
about the 11 million, he actually didn't clarify that position specifically.
GORANI: But even if the number was much smaller.
REYES: Right. Well, this is a problem that involves legal and very practical considerations. We have a large undocumented population. Donald
Trump proposes tripling the size of ICE to go after what he calls the bad guys, criminal aliens, and removing them.
And everyone else supposedly could leave the country and come back after they've reapplied. The problem is right now we spend in the United States
$18 billion on immigration enforcement, which is more than we spend on our other law enforcement agencies combined.
What Donald Trump would need to do, and this has been lacking from a lot of his proposals, is to get the buy-in from Congress. Congress appropriates
that money. Right now President Obama has the record for deportations. He's deported about 2.5 million.
GORANI: And that's a little-known fact, by the way, that under his -- in his administration over the last eight years, there have been many, many
REYES: Right. Some have even tagged him the deporter-in-chief. So what Donald Trump seems to be missing -- the calculation his campaign is missing
is that all of his ideas require a legislative component.
They require the buy-in of Congress and what has happened in the past, as I mentioned, when we've gone through immigration reform here, there are many
lawmakers who like ideas like the wall.
They like ideas of more deportations. They like ideas such as the e-verify plan. But when it comes to actually appropriating the money, signing the
checks, then they don't like it.
And so we stay stuck in the status quo of where we've been for several generations. In the United States, our immigration laws have really not
been overhauled since the 1990s.
GORANI: Right. What's the reason for that? Is it simply political gridlock?
REYES: It's a combination of factors. On side -- you have lawmakers on both sides of the aisle, both Democrats and Republicans, who balk at the
And then the political considerations inevitably come into it because many Republicans see that the idea of legalizing or providing a pathway to
citizenship for so many undocumented people who are predominantly Latino as a giveaway to the Democrats.
[15:40:12]Whereas Democrats see the Republican opposition to these proposals, they often tag it, in the case for instance of Donald Trump as
bigoted or representing a subtle type of racism.
As long as we have two houses in our Congress, the House of Representatives and Senate, as long as they're at loggerheads, nothing goes forward.
President Obama tried to move the country a little bit ahead incrementally with his executive action, and that was tied up in the courts through a
lawsuit and now looks very unlikely to ever actually go into practice before he leaves office.
GORANI: One last question on the drug trafficking issue, because one of the main promises, one of the main issues that Donald Trump brings up a lot
is criminality and drug trafficking, and that putting up a wall and setting up a deportation task force is going to essentially seal the border and the
U.S. will not have as much in terms of drug traffic pouring into the country. What do you make of that proposal?
REYES: Well, I think in theory that idea -- it certainly sounds appealing in theory. The reality is far different. The comparison I always use to
explain to people why that won't work is, look at countries like North Korea.
Look at countries like East Germany when the Berlin wall was up. We have had countries in modern history -- the closest thing we could come up with,
with an impenetrable force, and people still escaped, there were still defections, there was still some movement across the border.
With our southern border given the topography, I think it would be virtually impossible to stop the in-flow and outflow, although right now,
due to economic situation in Mexico as well as the United States, illegal immigration to the United States is actually down.
Sealing the border is very unrealistic. The people who live along the border, most nonpartisan experts say it's an unrealistic goal. But as long
as we're fixated on the goal, we never move ahead with comprehensive reform.
GORANI: Raul Reyes, thanks very much for joining us. We appreciate your time on CNN.
REYES: Thank you.
GORANI: So it has been a year since the world woke up to the refugee crisis raging in Europe. Of course, it was in many ways because of that
photograph of a tiny Syrian refugee lying face down on a Turkish beach.
It sparked outrage and encouraged people to do something to help the refugees turning up on their doorsteps. A new photo series from the United
Nation shares the stories of families who are sharing their homes with refugees because they believe they had to after seeing so much misery. CNN
has exclusive first access to them.
GORANI (voice-over): Behind each of these portraits is a story of loss, of lives ripped apart by war, but also stories of great generosity and
compassion. These are the faces of Europeans who have opened their homes alongside the refugees who now live with them.
Fara, her brother, Milad, and her husband, Walid (ph), all from Syria, now live with Lars, an architect, in Sweden.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (Speaking in foreign language).
GORANI: Lars hosts language lessons for them every week and they often eat together in his home. He felt compelled to help after watching the refugee
crisis unfold on television.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We don't trust people as much as we used to trust other peoples. I think trusting other persons is very, very important.
GORANI: Another portrait shows (inaudible), an artist from Syria, who now lives with single mother, Linea in Sweden. He is gay and fled from Raqqah
in 2012 when ISIS took over the city and began executing gay men.
Syrian former national basketball player, (inaudible) seen here bottom left, now lives with the Schaumburger family in Austria. Valerie, the
daughter, stayed with his family in Aleppo in 2006 when she was studying Arabic.
Now they're returning the favor, taking him in after he fled across the Mediterranean on a dinghy.
AUBREY WADE, PHOTOGRAPHER: For the refugees living with host families, they get introduced to networks, to other people. They make friends, but
the hosts also have benefit from the process, because they learn all sorts of things about new cultures. They learn things about their own
prejudices. They also discover shared values.
GORANI: Photographer Aubrey Wade traveled to Germany, Austria, and Sweden in partnership with the UNHCR to capture these images.
[15:45:05]WADE: What I hope people will take away from these pictures when they look at them is that they will recognize people who are just like
themselves, not just the hosts who are hosting the refugees but the refugees too.
GORANI: The UNHCR hopes to inspire more people like these to open up their homes.
GORANI: Well, there you have it. Maybe these pictures will inspire others to do the same. We'll take a quick break on CNN. We'll be right back.
GORANI: Tim Cook has responded to Apple's $14 billion tax bill, and he is not happy. The company's CEO vented his anger in interviews with Irish
journalists. Earlier CNN spoke to one of the reporters who interviewed him. I'll let him explain just what Tim Cook said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ADRIAN WECKLER, TECH EDITOR, "IRISH INDEPENDENT": I don't think I've ever seen him react as angrily. He called it total political crap. He didn't
mince his words. He says he believes there are political undercurrents to this. He believes the European Commission is essentially trying to
harmonize taxes across European member states through the backdoor using state aid enforcement mechanism.
And he also believes this is going to cause considerable difficulty, trade difficulty between the E.U. and the U.S. because, as he puts it, he
believes the E.U. is trying to grab taxes ultimately destined for the U.S.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Despite the financial setback, Apple is reaffirming its commitment to Ireland. Phil Black has more from Cork.
PHIL BLACK, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Sprawling, shiny, and still growing. This is Apple's Cork campus. A hub for almost 5,000 jobs,
stretching between one of the city's more deprived neighborhoods and some of Ireland's famous green pastures beyond.
Our camera was invited in to see what Apple has built here and what's still to come. A new wing will rise above this earth, accommodating another
1,000 workers. We were allowed to see the grounds.
We were not allowed to talk to anyone about E.U.'s order for Apple to pay 13 billion euros in taxes it's said to have avoided through a deal with the
But this tour carries a not very subtle message just like the image Apple released of its founder, Steve Jobs visiting the company's original
operation on this side more than 35 years ago.
(on camera): Apple's message, all of this has nothing to do with tax dodging. Rather, it's proof that Apple is committed to Ireland, that it's
been here for decades, investing, and changing people's lives. Here in Cork, this is very hard to find people who disagree with that.
(voice-over): On the streets of the city, there is an overwhelming sense of defiance. Many here believe the E.U. has overstepped, and they credit
Apple with first transforming Cork, and later helping the city recover from the dark days of the 2008 financial crisis.
[15:50:10]Pat O'Connell has been selling fish here since the '60s. He says many of his customers work for Apple.
PAT O'CONNELL, LOCAL BUSINESS OWNER: It's a phenomenal investment. It is now a huge part of Cork. Without Apple, through this recession, I don't
think Cork would have survived. We had two things which saved us. One was Apple, one was our pharmaceutical industry (inaudible) foreign direct
BLACK: The Lord Mayor Des Cahil tells me Apple's investment also helped encourage many other multinationals to invest in the region.
DES CAHIL, LORD MAYOR OF CORK: Apple is such a strong brand, Pfizer. We have a lot of the top brands here, but certainly led by Apple, back in 1980
when Ford and Dunlap shut down.
BLACK: You can't escape the view here that Ireland should fight the E.U. and not take Apple's billions because the tech giant already contributes
through creating wealth and jobs, but it's not a unanimous view. One of Ireland's key opposition parties, Sinn Fein (ph), says the E.U. ruling
should not be appealed instead Ireland should take the money and put it to good use.
DONNCHADH O'LAOGHARE, IRISH PARLIAMENT MEMBER: There is no question that we can continue to be a place that companies such as Apple invest in and
have a healthy taxation base and invest in services.
BLACK: It's likely the E.U. ruling is just one step in a long legal process as Ireland and Apple send their lawyers to court. They both deny
doing anything wrong and both fear the ultimate consequence will be reduced foreign investment in a country whose economy now depends on it. Phil
Black, CNN, Cork, Ireland.
GORANI: Apple is getting some sympathy in court, but with tech companies in Europe, it is not always the case. Samuel Burke has more.
SAMUEL BURKE, CNN MONEY BUSINESS AND TECHNOLOGY CORRESPONDENT: Hala, these tech shows are capitalism on steroids. It's amazing to see the big tech
companies competing with the small startups, all in the same place. Some bad ideas, some great ideas, but no matter the size of the company I speak
with, I can find little to no sympathy for Apple.
A lot of these small startups here in Europe are paying 30 percent business tax, so they were bewildered to find out that Apple was paying just 0.005
percent in Ireland.
One thing that's interesting, a lot of Germans want to know if Germany might actually end up collecting back taxes. The commissioner for
competition left open the idea that places like Germany, France, they sold iPhones here, they but were taxed back in Ireland.
So there's possibility that Germany could collect back taxes of up to 30 percent. A lot of buzz about gadgets, a lot of people talking DJI, a drone
company. This is a company finding more success with photography devices.
This is their new Osmo mobile, they just announced today. It has a stabilizer on it. You've probably used these type of cameras a lot in the
studio, but the average civilian hasn't used them so much.
DJI have come out with a line of these that have been very successful, but using their own camera. Now they have one that you can use your own phone
on. You can take a selfie but it will set you back 300 bucks, not too expensive for this type of technology.
Amazing to see that DJI, a drone company, is doing so well in so many fields, whereas a company like GoPro, their stock has gone from $100 to
below $15 today. They're a camera company that should be doing very well.
They had a drone they were supposed to announce, but lo and behold, it's DJI, a Chinese company, that's really innovating -- Hala.
GORANI: Thank you, Samuel. We'll be right back. Stay with us.
GORANI: We've been talking a lot about walls in the show today. There's a rock band that knows a little bit about them. Pink Floyd is back and
"Another Brick In The Wall's" singers have put together an exhibit of their life's work at the Victoria and Albert Museum in London. With a preview,
here's Max Foster.
MAX FOSTER, CNN ROYAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A 40-foot floating pig flying high above London's Victoria and Albert Museum. A site that's
become the trademark of the legendary rock band "Pink Floyd" ever since they tethered one to a power station back in the 1970s.
Back then, the pig broke free, grounding all planes at Heathrow Airport. Today it stayed in place, thankfully, drawing attention to the band's
latest project, a retrospective exhibition covering their half century of work.
NICK MASON, DRUMMER, PINK FLOYD: But what would be nice would be to be able to show or explain how we created some of the sounds or how we
assembled some of the music or whatever.
FOSTER: Drummer Nick Mason thinks Pink Floyd's pioneering use of visual effects made them unique at the time.
MASON: That was the beginning of something that we realized gave us a sort of niche at a time when we weren't a particularly brilliant band, we were
just a band, but that added element meant something. It was a launch pad for us, I think.
FOSTER: The show will include the iconic prism artwork that made the album "Dark Side Of The Moon" so recognizable. One of Pink Floyd's most famous
pieces of imagery was the wall, referenced in the famous song about rebellion and protest. It's a theme Mason recognizes only too well in
MASON: It's relevant at every level, whether it's some crazed man in America trying to divide the country, or whether it's personal between two
people. So that's the great thing with music, it can be all things to all people.
FOSTER: The exhibition, which opens to the public next summer, will mark the 50th anniversary of Pink Floyd's first album, "The Piper At The Gates
Of Dawn." Max Foster, CNN, London.
GORANI: Thanks for watching. I'm Hala Gorani. "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" is next.