Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Is Trump Softening On Immigration Or Not?; Colin Kaepernick Continues Protest Of Anthem; Trump to Give Interview to African American Pastor, But Are The Answers Scripted? Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired September 02, 2016 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:30:50]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think you're going to see, there's really quite a bit of softening.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: OK it's this word, "softening" that we're going to talk about now. With me now to do that is CNN Political Commentator, Kayleigh McEnany. She's also a Trump supporter. And Tara Setmayer, a CNN Commentator and a Republican. Welcome to both of you.

OK so Kayleigh, this word, "softening," and then Mr. Trump said it's actually a hardening. Like what do these words mean, exactly?

KAYLEIGH MCENANY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well I think it's a hardening in the sense of the ten policies he laid out are, in fact, a hardening of where he should. He wants to pass Kate's Law. He wants to triple the number of ICE officers. He's really put teeth on his plan and made it a very security-oriented plan.

That being said, the softening comes where he says his last priority is going to be those who remain in the country. He's going to get the criminals out. But he's listening to voters, and voters said they think this part of his policy is too harsh. So he's willing to budge on that. Only after he's done this insecured (ph) ...

COSTELLO: Does that mean he's willing to consider amnesty?

MCENANY: Well no, not amnesty. Because he's been very clear that every person who touches foot on this soil illegally will have to go back to where they came from before they even are entertained for the idea of citizenship ...

COSTELLO: How is that a softening?

MCENANY: It's a softening because the idea of what President Obama has done, by the way, raiding people's homes, pulling people out forcibly, he's willing to not do that which we've -- there've been news headlines all over of Obama doing this. I've seen it firsthand down in Florida. I think the real question though is where Hillary Clinton stands. She's flip-flopped on driver's licenses to illegal immigrants, she's flip-flopped as recently as ...

COSTELLO: OK well let's ...

MCENANY: ... November saying that there should be a border wall ...

COSTELLO: Let's just concentrate on the softening/hardening thing. So Tara, in your mind, what does that mean? What do those words mean?

TARA SETMAYER, CNN COMMENTATOR: It means that Donald Trump has flip- flopped on the issue of illegal immigration. What he is postured during the primary was the priority was going to be getting the 11 million plus illegal immigrants out of here.

That was the entire foundation of his campaign from the beginning. And not only that but his immigration policy. There's nothing that differentiates him right now from the positions of Marco Rubio, Jeb Bush, or John Kasich, who had more pragmatic approaches to what to do about the people who are here now.

That has been an issue that has plagued the Republican Party and the country for years. I was on Capitol Hill in 2007 when George Bush tried to push through a comprehensive immigration bill that included a pathway to legalization or citizenship. And it went down because people said no, "we're not going to do amnesty." So what that equates to (ph) ...

COSTELLO: Not only did it go down but you can't even say "comprehensive immigration bill" ...

SETMAYER: Right, that's right ...

COSTELLO: ... anymore because ...

SETMAYER: ... not anymore ...

COSTELLO: ... it has a negative connotation, right?

SETMAYER: Well we saw what happened with the gang of eight. And so what Donald Trump is doing now -- I mean, when I listened to that speech on Wednesday there were aspects of the enforcement part that I agreed with, that are necessary, that are no different than what other more experienced, pragmatic candidates put forth.

And he even used the same wording that Marco Rubio used which was "in a few years, we'll revisit what to do with the people who are here illegally." And they just say (ph) what's the difference? ...

COSTELLO: So I'd like Kayleigh to address this, so how is it different from Jeb Bush's ...

MCENANY: Oh and in ...

COSTELLO: ... plan or Marco Rubio's plan?

MCENANY: ... in many ways. I never heard Jeb Bush propose that there's going to be a wall that Mexico's paying for. You know, Donald Trump didn't indicate his priorities in the primary. He put forth a plan, now he's listening to voters and his priority is to cinch (ph) the wall? ...

COSTELLO: So is that the biggest difference of the group (ph)?

MCENANY: No. I think that's one of the differences. And the second difference is he's not for amnesty. Everyone who breaks the law and enters this country the wrong way has to leave before they come back. But Donald Trump realizes that there are good, hard working, Mexican immigrants in this country that he wants to be here. That did come here the wrong way. But to remedy the wrong that they committed by coming here, they will ...

COSTELLO: So those people will still have to leave the country and apply (ph) to come back ...

SETMAYER: That's like safe (ph) deportation. What's the difference?

MCENANY: They do have to leave ...

COSTELLO: Yeah what is the difference between ...

MCENANY: ... and they do have to come back. But you know, I don't understand why we sit here and harp on Donald Trump all the time when there are real questions about Hillary Clinton's flip-flops on immigration. Driver's license benefits, as recently as November she was praising her vote to put up a border wall, as recently as November. And now she's all of a sudden against a barrier -- apparently that's now a hateful thing to protect the border.

SETMAYER: Because Hillary Clinton's campaign was not based on exuding all of this very jingoistic, xenophobic, pitchfork crowd, ginning (ph) people up about "get all the illegal immigrants out of here." Which is what Donald Trump did.

MCENANY: She's allowed to flip-flop because it wasn't her ...

SETMAYER: No, she's not allowed to flip-flop ...

MCENANY: OK.

SETMAYER: Yes, Hillary Clinton has flip-flopped on all those things. Yep, she was for -- against illegals having driver's license and all that. Go back to the 2007 campaign, all that's true. But the difference here is the reason why we're going after Donald Trump is because this was a centerpiece of his campaign. And now he's flip- flopped on it. He is essentially advocating for self-deportation. Which is what he criticized Mitt Romney for, being too harsh, in 2012 over.

COSTELLO: I think ...

SETMAYER: ... So which is the real Donald Trump? We don't know, he's pandering (ph).

MCENANY: Voters have a binary choice to make (ph). A binary choice ...

SETMAYER: It's not a binary choice.

MCENANY: ... Security in the form of Donald Trump -- yes, you do.

SETMAYER: It's not a binary choice ...

MCENANY: ... It's a binary choice.

SETMAYER: ... it's a (INAUDIBLE) ...

MCENANY: OK maybe Gary Johnson will win this ...

SETMAYER: Yeah.

COSTELLO: Kayleigh McEnany, Tara Setmayer, thanks to both of you. All right, coming up in the Newsroom, amid a chorus of boos, Colin Kaepernick continues his national anthem protest. This time, he's not alone. What veterans have to say about it, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:39:03]

COSTELLO: San Francisco 49ers Quarterback, Colin Kaepernick greeted with loud boos as he walked on -- as he walked out onto the field last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(CROWD BOOING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Despite the not-so-warm welcome, he continued his protest, opting to kneel during the national anthem at the game, to honor military servicemembers. And this time he wasn't the only person not standing. CNN's Sports Anchor, Coy Wire has more on this this morning. Hi Coy.

COY WIRE, CNN SPORTS ANCHOR: Good morning, Carol. Colin is standing strong, says he's going to continue to protest racial injustice in America by continuing to sit during the national anthem until he sees significant change. Let's be clear, he's also said it was never his intention to disrespect the military. And so once that anthem played last night something interesting happened.

Instead of him sitting away off by himself on a water cooler, teammates joined him. They knelt down beside him as you see one, Eric Reid there in the black shirt beside him. Also former NFL player and Army veteran, Nate Boyer stood next to Kaepernick there on the right showing support. Kaepernick invited Boyer to the game after reading an open letter Boyer had written.

And they had an hour-and-a-half conversation before the game, guys, connecting and bonding. And after the game, Kaepernick stood by his reasoning for protesting.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COLIN KAEPERNICK, SAN FRANCISCO 49ERS: The media painted this as I'm anti-American, anti-men and women of the military. And that's not the case at all. This is really something about human rights. It's about the people. This isn't about anything other than that. And some people aren't given the same rights, aren't given the same opportunities as others.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WIRE: Now listen to this, Kaepernick also went on to say he will donate $1 million to charities to help communities in need. That's powerful, people are listening. Like Seattle Seahawks player Jeremy Lane showing support for Kaepernick, sitting during the national anthem before his team's final preseason game. Lane says he likes what Kaepernick is doing and he wants to stand behind him.

Now Kaepernick also answered questions about those now infamous pig socks that he wore at practice. Black socks with pigs wearing police hats. He says this wasn't a blanket indictment of all police officers out there. He actually has family members that are cops. Now Colin Kaepernick has plenty of people who aren't happy about the methods he's choosing to bring awareness to racial injustice in our country. But Carol, so many people out there are getting the message behind what he's saying, including fellow athletes and military members joining him to create positive change.

[10:41:30]

COSTELLO: All right, Coy Wire reporting live for us this morning, thanks so much. Let's talk about this. With me now Shaun Rieley, a veteran who served in Iraq and is now with Concerned Veterans for America. And Lieutenant Colonel Scott Mann, a Green Beret who was the founder of Mission America. Welcome to both of you.

SHAUN RIELEY, CONCERNED VETERANS FOR AMERICA: Hi, Carol.

LT. COL. SCOTT MANN, FORMER GREEN BERET, FOUNDER, MISSION AMERICA: Thanks for having me.

COSTELLO: Nice to have you here. So Shaun, you heard the crowd booing Kaepernick as he walked out onto the field. And then he knelt down and there was a service member right in front of him. Did Kaepernick deserve those boos?

RIELEY: Well I think the important thing to notice here, or to think about here, is that in our country there is a right to free speech. We don't always have to like what's being said, we don't always have to like the methods that are being used to express it. But there's an important principle of free speech. And that, at the end of the day is what veterans serve for.

COSTELLO: Colonel Mann, what is your feeling about that? Because this was a day where the San Diego Chargers, they were honoring veterans. Should've -- should Colin Kaepernick perhaps have skipped this this game for his protest?

MANN: Hey, Carol, thanks for having me on. Shaun, good to see you again. You know, I agree with Shaun in a sense that it is every citizen's right to protest in the way that they see fit. And absolutely, veterans defend that. Now, with that said, I don't think it's an accurate representation to say that veterans are cheering and applauding. I think most people find it a little bit insulting.

However, I think the deeper conversation that no one's talking about is, when you look at the military -- for example, I was in the Army Special Forces, and I saw time and again in Afghanistan, where men of color, women of color stood shoulder-to-shoulder and endured horrific hardship because they were all green. They were serving a higher purpose.

And somewhere along the line, we've lost that in America. We've lost that, "from many come one." And I think that's -- you know, we were burning draft cards in the 60s. I think we've established that that's everybody's right. But why don't we look at a way to have this conversation as Americans.

And I think Kaepernick is displaying pretty poor leadership. He's got an awesome platform at his hands and instead, he's dividing and advancing the agenda of one in group. And it's not helpful at all.

COSTELLO: So do you think, Shaun, that Colin Kaepernick is being divisive?

RIELEY: Well I think that there are important issues that can be, that we need to take a look at. I think across the aisle, across the political spectrum, people have agreed that criminal justice reform is something that's needed in this country. It's something we need to take a look at. And so I think he's drawing attention to that important issue.

Now, again, I don't want to say that we have to endorse what he's saying or how he's saying it, even if we agree with what he's saying. But the principle here is that -- it might even be ironic in a certain sense -- that he's protesting the very flag that represents the country that provides him this freedom, grant that. But these are important issues that have to be talked about. And freedom of speech is what it is.

COSTELLO: The pig socks, Colonel Mann, you know? Colin Kaepernick came back and he said, you know what? I was wearing those socks before my official protest began, and I have uncles who are police officers, and it was just meant to -- as a protest against the bad police officers out there. Does that diminish his goal in any way?

MANN: Well I think it does, Carol. I mean I don't know how you feel about that but to me that's a blanket statement. When you have pigs on your socks with police officer's hats on, I think that's pretty darn divisive. And I've been reading comments that he made on Sunday where he said cosmetologists have more training than police officers. And that police officers only have six months worth of training. And that's a horrendous amount of training. But guess what? A lot of our soldiers have the same amount of

training. I just think it's very divisive to say that kind of stuff. It's very dismissive. I think law enforcement officers, our military, they do a lot to protect us. They were probably protecting him at that game last night, a lot of law enforcement officers were.

So to be that dismissive, that divisive, when you make those kinds of blanket statements, it's just poor leadership. And I think we're beyond one's right to protest right now, that's fine. But can people start stepping up and using their platforms to have this pragmatic conversation as Americans first? And I'm just not seeing that.

And I think that's where most veterans really get upset. Because that's what we're fighting for, is to have these -- you know, to advance these discussions. And when you're putting one group above the other like that, when you're wearing pigs on your socks with police officer hats, and making statements comparing officers to cosmetologists, I don't see how that's going to advance anything that's productive.

COSTELLO: All right I have to leave it there. Scott Mann, Shaun Rieley, thanks to both of you. Coming up in the Newsroom ...

RIELEY: Take care (ph).

COSTELLO: ... Donald Trump heading to Detroit tomorrow where he'll be interviewed by an African American pastor. But did Trump receive the questions from that pastor before hand? We'll he give scripted answers? I'll ask Pastor Wayne Jackson, next.

[10:46:30]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:50:22]

COSTELLO: Donald Trump knows he needs the African American vote in November. That's why he's reaching out to black voters in Philadelphia and in Detroit. The New York Times now reporting Trump will meet face-to-face with an African American congregation in Detroit tomorrow. He's also planning to hold a sit-down interview with the Impact Network of Religious Television channel.

Both events will be closed to the media, but make no mistake, Trump will be prepared. An unnamed source in the New York Times reveals a lengthy list of prepared questions and scripted answers. The source says those answers were put together by Trump's aides and the RNC. What's more, Trump's campaign will have a hand in the final editing of that taped interview with the pastor.

Last hour, a senior advisor to Trump, to the Trump campaign, called the article a hack piece. So we wanted to know what the truth was. We're going to ask the person in charge. Joining me now on the phone is Bishop Wayne Jackson, who will be the man to interview Trump. Welcome back, Pastor Jackson.

VOICE OF BISHOP WAYNE JACKSON, DETROIT: Thank you, thank you, thank you ...

COSTELLO: So clear this up ...

JACKSON: ... I'm glad that I'm ...

COSTELLO: ... I'm glad you're here. Clear this up for us, did you submit questions to the Trump campaign before the interview?

JACKSON: Sure, sure. I'm the one that sat down with the New York Times reporter. And one of the questions that she asked, did we submit questions to the Trump campaign beforehand. And yes, I didn't see anything wrong with it. I never lied about, you know, trying to be deceitful about it. But we have, in the past, I have done things for The White House.

I had did an invocation, just a prayer, about a year ago when Joe Biden was in -- Vice President Biden was in town. And before I even did the prayer they asked me to submit what I was going to pray. So I didn't see anything wrong with it.

I felt like if he even had advisors, I didn't know what his camp was going to do with it. I just sent the questions out. They were hard questions, they were direct questions, and they were questions that I feel African Americans need to know.

COSTELLO: I think that some people would say, wouldn't it be better if Donald Trump were to give spontaneous answers? Because those answers would come straight from the heart.

JACKSON: Well it -- well, these answers, I mean these questions are not going to be just soured by the facts (ph). I have questions that they don't know about, no one know about. I changed some after that came out.

Now I want to make something very clear. There was no coercing with the Trump campaign and myself to try to give him an upper hand on these questions. I'm concerned, and we need to keep the focus on this, I'm concerned both with Mr. Trump and not only me, other African Americans, are concerned about, he has made a statement. And his statements are that "I want to make the black community better."

Well, he never has, to this point, sat down with anyone. So we want to know the answers. We want to know how you going to do that? There's a lot of perception out there that there's a lot of racist people that are following his campaign. These are questions that we're going to ask. And then when it's all said and done, then let the people decide. So (ph) other people will understand ...

COSTELLO: Let me ask you this. Because another part of this New York Times article said that Trump aides would work with your network to edit the taped interview ...

JACKSON: No. No that's not true. That is not true. Then it would be tainted. It would be tainted and it would not be good. No. This was never been discussed with me. For her to say that, I don't know where she got that from, but she didn't get that from me or my media team.

Because this was never discussed between me or my media team, that there would be any type of them having their hands on it. Once we have the interview, we will have it and will show it raw, like it is.

COSTELLO: OK and then my final question to you, Sir, is, Donald Trump is now going to speak face-to-face with your congregation. I interviewed you yesterday and you said that he would be sitting in the church service, but not talking directly to the congregation. So is he now going to do that?

JACKSON: Well, again, I don't know where all this information coming from. Now I'm the Pastor. I'm the Pastor. I know nothing about it. Donald Trump is coming to be a part of our service. That, since he's in town, he's going to stay for service. We have service on Saturday so he's going to stay for the service after the interview.

And then if he greets the congregation, as we do with all politicians, or all visitors, if he wants to say, "hey, I'm Donald Trump, I'm glad to be here." And it's not going to be an interview or a -- or a speech to the congregation because if that was something that anybody's got, they didn't give me the news. So I don't know what that -- where that's coming from.

But as what I know, what I know is that he's coming for the service at -- after we do the interview. And he wanted to meet and talk to some people while he was here. That's what his visit is all about.

His visit's not just to give an interview -- give an interview with Impact Television Network. But it is a man to make sure that he -- while he's in town, talking to people because he's been criticized ...

COSTELLO: OK.

JACKSON: ... that he's been preaching, he's been preaching to African Americans from a backdrop of a white people.

COSTELLO: Right, and I understand. And Bishop Wayne Johnson, I'm glad you came on and clarified all of this. Because we've been talking about it most of the morning and it's always good to have things straight from the horse's mouth, so to speak. And of course we'll be following what Mr. Trump says inside your church, and of course what he says to you when you sit down to interview him. Thank you so much for joining me.

And thank you for joining me today, I'm Carol Costello. "AT THIS HOUR" with Berman and Bolduan after a break.

[10:56:22]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)