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Earthquakes Hit Parts of Oklahoma; Donald Trump to Attend Service at Black Church in Detroit; Controversial Pastor Who Supports Donald Trump Interviewed; Protestors Demonstrate against Donald Trump in Detroit; Donald Trump's History of Involvement with Racial Issues Debated. Aired 10-11a ET
Aired September 03, 2016 - 10:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[10:00:00] HILLARY CLINTON, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: -- do that again, it was the wrong choice.
DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think we're the only hope. Hillary Clinton has no clue, and doesn't care.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Donald Trump in Detroit this morning at an African-American church trying to make inroads with minority voters.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is an opportunity for Donald Trump to use the African-American community.
TRUMP: Nothing means more to me than working to make our party the home of the African-American vote.
What the hell do you have to lose?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHRISTI PAUL, CNN ANCHOR: We are wishing you a good Saturday morning, and so grateful for your company as always. I'm Christi Paul.
VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Victor Blackwell, good to be with you. Welcome to the CNN Newsroom. We're going to get straight to the breaking news now we've been following this morning, this large earthquake rattling at least seven states within the last few hours. We're getting our first look at the damage. Let's move the banner so we can see. The bricks here falling off of this building in Pawnee, Oklahoma, 100 years old, historic building. This is near the epicenter of this earthquake.
CNN Meteorologist Allison Chinchar is here with more information. Allison, we started with three states that were impacted, now seven. What are you learning about the strength and potential damage here?
ALLISON CHINCHAR, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Yes, so let's take a look at the stats we know. Right now it's a magnitude 5.6 earthquake. That ties for the strongest earthquake in Oklahoma recorded history. The depth is the most important part, though, because it was only 6.6 kilometers, about four miles deep. And that because it's so shallow allows for it to be felt across a much wider area than, say, if it were a little bit more shallow. It happened about 74 miles north of Oklahoma City, about an hour west
of Tulsa. Take a look at this image. You can see the big crack that goes right through here. This is from Stillwater, Oklahoma, and again, this is less than 30 miles from where the epicenter of the earthquake was.
And, again, let's take a look at the floor to kind of show you what we talk about because this is important to kind of understand how these earthquakes actually work. Now, on average, what we consider a shallow earthquake happens at about 70 kilometers or less. In intermediate, if this were to happen, an intermediate earthquake wouldn't cause as much damage, it wouldn't be felt as wide as seven states like we had. But this one was shallow. As we mentioned, 6.6 kilometers, or about four miles, so very shallow. And that allows for it to spread out much further than, say, some of the other earthquakes that would have been a little bit deeper.
So Christi, Victor, again, the key thing with this is definitely the fact it was shallow. The one good thing is, we have only about a 60 percent chance of seeing about $1 million damage or less. A million may sound like a lot, but in the wider scope that's actually not that bad in terms of earthquake damage.
BLACKWELL: All right, Allison Chinchar, we'll continue to see what we get in now.
We just got our first video of the moment that this earthquake struck. It happened about 7:00 a.m., so most people were asleep on a Saturday morning. You can see the rattling here, the rumbling.
PAUL: We apologize for that.
BLACKWELL: We have to edit that, guys. But again, this is the first video in from Mustang, Oklahoma. A man hopping out of bed after that 5.6 there epicenter near Pawnee.
PAUL: It did last for a little while there as the mayor had talked to us about a little bit earlier. Mayor of Pawnee, Brad Sewell, his family felt the shaking in their home this morning and he explained to us his reaction when he realized what was happening.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRAD SEWELL, MAYOR OF PAWNEE, OKLAHOMA: It was a sustained quaking. It lasted a long time. It was something that, you know, you had your presence of mind to be able to check on children and do different things like that. It wasn't -- we've been having a lot of earthquakes over the last couple of years. Most of those have been single tremors, you feel it and it's gone. This continued. And it was very alarming for those of us who weren't used to this sort of thing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PAUL: Mayor Sewell said an inspector is going to check those buildings in Pawnee today to make sure there was no major damage and that they're safe, of course, for people to enter. I want to show you some live pictures, meanwhile, right now.
Protesters outside a Donald Trump event in Detroit. Donald Trump meeting with the Council of Baptist Pastors of that city. Right now we understand in about an hour he'll attend a worship service at an African-American church there. The campaign says he'll address the congregation. The church hasn't confirmed that detail. At one point the church said he'll be there but he won't address them. So we're still waiting to determine what his role will be. But we do know he'll sit down for taped interview with Bishop Wayne Jackson for Impact Television. Joining me outside the church in Detroit, CNN Politics reporter Jeremy Diamond. Jeremy, what are these protesters saying outside the church?
[10:05:06] JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN POLITICS REPORTER: Well, so far we've heard from a couple of different people. One of them was Pastor Lawrence Glass who talked about Donald Trump, he talked about what he called, quote, "the message of fear and hate." He also said that the African-American community is, quote, "appalled at Donald Trump's ignorance and arrogance."
We also heard from a local imam who spoke out against Donald Trump saying that Donald Trump risks eroding one of the most cherished values in the United States, which is religious liberty. Of course that is in reference to Donald Trump's comments about Muslims. In the past Donald Trump had previously called for banning all Muslims from coming into the United States.
So we're hearing from a number of different community leaders and also some elected officials who were there. We're expected to hear from a local councilwoman on the council of Detroit council as well as the sheriff of the county around Detroit. So of course all of this comes as Donald Trump is finally taking his message of outreach to African- American voters inside a black church, inside the African-American community. We'll see what he has to say here, if his message is going to change. Certainly he's going to be listening to what people have to say here.
PAUL: All right, Jeremy Diamond, thank you so much.
BLACKWELL: While Donald Trump attempts to court minority voters face to face, he is receiving a lot of criticism from Latino supporters and even his own party. The "New York Times" is reporting that this week, the RNC was expecting Trump's long awaited immigration speech to be passionate and measured. But, here's the quote, "When Mr. Trump instead offered a fiery denunciation of migrant criminals and suggested deporting Hillary Clinton, Reince Priebus," the part chairman, "signaled that aides should scrap the plan and the committee made no statement at all. The evening tore a painful new wound in Mr. Trump's relationship with the Republican National Committee, imperiling his most important remaining political alliance."
Let's talk about this now with CNN political commentator Tara Setmayer, and Kayleigh McEnany. Kayleigh is a Trump supporter. And Tharon Johnson, Hillary Clinton supporter and former Obama south regional director. Good morning to all of you. So Kayleigh, let me start with you. We all remember from grade school the Venn diagram, the three circles that overlap and there's one common space. Donald Trump has his three circles. He's got his base, he's got traditional establishment Republicans, and he's got the independents he needs to win the election. Can he put his campaign in the common space? Does he want to put it there?
KAYLEIGH MCENANY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, he does. He stuck by his word. He looked in the eyes of families who have lost their loved ones to illegal immigrants, families that stood on stage with him during his speech, and he promised them that he was going to bring back security and there would not be another U.S. citizen who dies at the hands of someone who was not supposed to be here. So he kept that promise. But he also on the stage with the Mexican president, Nieto, and also in his speech, praised the contributions of Mexican immigrants to our society. So he has done both. I know he's getting a lot of criticism. I think it's unmerited. I think the criticism should be aimed at Hillary Clinton who does not have an immigration plan to appease these families who have lost their children.
BLACKWELL: We'll get to Hillary Clinton in a moment with Tharon. But, Tara, let me come to you. And I want to get your response to what Stephen Henderson wrote in the "Detroit Free Press" about Donald Trump's visit to Great Faith Ministries and his tour of Detroit with Ben Carson today. And he writes "Even in coming to Detroit he's not going to address black voters or deal with our issues. He has no interest in that as his rhetoric and actions have shown. Instead he's aiming to use his appearance in a black city with black people to boost his stock among white middle class voters, a swelling number of whom also believe he's a racist and whose votes he is more likely to recapture with a softening of that image."
So here's the question, twofold here. Do you agree with that? And how many of these white voters are still on the fence about Donald Trump?
TARA SETMAYER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Right. You know, as someone who has worked on campaigns and been involved in minority outreach in the Republican Party for many years, it's very puzzling to me and frustrating that you wait until two months before a major election to even make an attempt to show up. You need to have a presence there in off election years and actually invest in these communities for people to believe what you're saying so you have a record, so you can show where conservatism or Republican principles actually apply and are better off and create more opportunity and the ladder of opportunities that the once great Jack Kemp used to see.
So a lot of this is completely disingenuous. It's political theater. I think that people see right through this, not only the middle class white voters that Donald Trump needs to make sure that he has, but black voters see that, too. Poll after poll shows that Donald Trump's unfavorables in the black community are sky high, over 90 percent. And so this is really, a, at this point in the election cycle, he's wasted two weeks doing this. And b, does anyone really think that anything he says, the platitudes he offers are sincere given his record of problematic racial relations over the last four years?
[10:10:01] BLACKWELL: All right, let me come to you, Tharon. Although we've seen the criticisms of Donald Trump and his immigration stance in Phoenix, the visit to Mexico, and what we're seeing here in Detroit. The CNN poll of polls show that Clinton's lead over the last month has been cut in half. She started the month at 52 percent over 43 percent. And now it's down to 42, 37, so just a few points there. Why is this happening?
THARON JOHNSON, FORMER SOUTH REGIONAL DIRECTOR, OBAMA 2012: It's happening because of two reasons. One, if you really look at these polls, a lot of the support is not going towards Donald Trump. A lot of the support that we see are people who are actually saying they want to look at the Libertarian candidate or the Green Party. Secondly, listen, they both had a bump coming out of their conventions. As we said now for 14 months, most people start paying very close attention to the election come September, but also, I think what is really important here, Victor, is that Hillary Clinton is still doing exceptionally well in key battle ground steps like Florida, Ohio, and even North Carolina. While Donald Trump has I think a very small lead there, she's cutting into that.
BLACKWELL: You think this has nothing to do with the drip, drip, drip every week of headlines about the e-mails?
JOHNSON: No, because I think the American people, while the e-mail situation is serious and Hillary Clinton has admitted it was a mistake, I think the American people want to move on and talk about more substantive issues. So I think that, listen, at the time when Donald Trump will have a good week, he'll go and basically do something and his campaign continues to redefine rock bottom when it comes to basically having the strategy to appeal to multiple groups outside of white Republicans. And so I think that ultimately Hillary Clinton will be fine.
BLACKWELL: All right, Tharon, Tara, Kayleigh, stay with us. This is just the start of the conversation this hour. Good to have you this morning.
One of Donald Trump's most outspoken supporters, that's when we're going to talk about soon, especially in the black community, is accused of stretching the truth, some would say just flat out lying about his past, his biography. When I asked him to clarify some of these things, we're talking about Pastor Mark Burns, he got a bit flustered. You will definitely want to see this interview.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PASTOR MARK BURNS, TRUMP SUPPORTER: This is from my page, but what I'm saying is, obviously, this has been manipulated or either hacked or added.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[10:15:41] BLACKWELL: This hour Donald Trump is visiting an African- American church in Detroit. The man who helped to arrange the meeting is Pastor Mark Burns. He's been one of Trump's key surrogates as the candidate tries to reach out to African-American voters. Burns also spoke of the Republican Convention. But most recently, he made news for posting this tweet, a cartoon depicting Hillary Clinton in blackface. He later apologized, took it down. But as questions arose about him and his background, Burns agreed to sit down with us for an on the record, on camera interview. But as you will soon see, he quickly wanted to take that conversation off the record.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BURNS: We need a warrior, we need a champion, we need a winner. And that is Donald.
BLACKWELL: He's the small town preacher who's become a major surrogate for Donald Trump's campaign for president.
BURNS: The last thing I want to do was draw attention away from Mr. Trump's policy.
BLACKWELL: Pastor Mark Burns, a frequent cable news guest, a crowd favorite at Trump rallies, even a speaker at the national convention.
BURNS: From the great state of South Carolina.
BLACKWELL: But before the campaign he was virtually unknown.
BURNS: I think Donald Trump is a great judge of character. You know, you would think he would just choose the greatest names. But Donald Trump values character more so than popularity or name. And I think that I fall in that category.
BLACKWELL: Pastor Burns' Harvest Praise and Worship Center in Easley, South Carolina, is a small operation, the church just a few folding chairs, tables, and cameras for his televangelism.
BURNS: Help us to receive the wisdom of the lord Jesus Christ.
BLACKWELL: After attending Trump's November meeting with black pastors in New York, Burns former campaign manager Corey Lewandowski asked him to speak on Trump's behalf at Bob Jones University. He's been a favorite of the campaign.
DAMON DAVIS, KAPPA ALPHA PSI MEMBER: He just came out of the blue.
BLACKWELL: Virginia Beach Navy veteran Damon Davis says he's a Republican but had never heard of the fiery southern pastor. Neither had his friends.
DAVIS: So they looked him up. He had webpages up, and they saw one of the claims he was a member of Kappa Alpha Psi.
BLACKWELL: David, who is a member of the predominantly African- American fraternity, says he first saw the claim in Pastor Burns' bio on his church's website. Davis says he captured this screen grab in July just day after Burns spoke at the RNC. Then he started investigating.
What did you find?
DAVIS: There is no person named Mark Burns, John Mark Burns, or any variation thereof in the fraternity ever.
BLACKWELL: Davis says he contacted Pastor Burns. Soon after Davis says the webpage disappeared. CNN Called Kappa headquarters too. They have no record of him. So when we sat down with Burns we asked about that.
BURNS: I did without question said I had started the process of being a part of that organization, but that's the furthest I've gotten.
BLACKWELL: Is that the bio from your website.
BURNS: It is but it is the -- it is the bio, but this is not an accurate depiction of the bio. Information has obviously been added. I'm pretty -- I own up to any mistakes I made like I did with my tweet. Obviously, in this case that's not --
BLACKWELL: So this is not from your page.
BURNS: No, this is from my page, but what I'm saying is, obviously, this has been manipulated or either hacked or added.
BLACKWELL: CNN asked the site's host, Wix, about the possibility someone could have tampered with the church's website. The company tells CNN there is no evidence of a hack. And CNN obtained the pastor's full bio from the church's website through an Internet archive.
You also claimed you served six years in the Army Reserves. Is that accurate?
BURNS: Yes, it is.
BLACKWELL: OK, we called the Army and they said that you had no active army or --
BURNS: I was never -- I was part of the South Carolina National Guard.
BLACKWELL: I asked you'd about Army reserves. That was my question, you in this bio claim six years in the army reserves.
BURNS: Which is -- it is reserves, it's the army South Carolina National Guard is reserves.
BLACKWELL: In a statement to CNN, the U.S. Army says Burns served in the South Carolina National Guard for 2001 to 2005, was discharged in 2008. He has no active Army or Army Reserve service time.
[10:20:08] Did you attend North Greenville University?
BURNS: I did attend North Greenville University.
BLACKWELL: Did you graduate from North Greenville University? BURNS: No, I didn't complete the degree.
BLACKWELL: In fact the university tells CNN he was here one semester.
Again, the bio that's on your website claims you earned a Bachelor of Science degree. Did you make that claim?
BURNS: I asked you'd just a moment ago as we were opening up this -- first of all I said we were off the record.
BLACKWELL: I didn't agree with that.
BURNS: But I did.
BLACKWELL: We're still rolling. I'm still asking you questions on the record.
BURNS: I'm off the record. I'm off the record. This is not fair. This is not fair at all. This is not what I agreed to. I thought we were doing a profile, and all of a sudden you're here to try to destroy my character.
BLACKWELL: I'm not coming here to destroy your character. These are claims that were made on your website that was live while you were speaking at the Republican National Convention. My question is, are those claims accurate?
BURNS: I understand this is what media does, and I understand when you find someone that is speaking out their heart and speaking out their desire to bring people together and to get past a political correctness of society that the job of that -- of the investigative journalism, you know, in this case, is to try to destroy the character of the individual so their voice is silenced.
What I'm saying is this. In reference to my website, if there's inaccurate on there that can easily be manipulated by other people. And can be manipulated by hackers, people can do and say and create whatever they want to create.
BLACKWELL: Again, the website's host says there is no evidence of a hack.
BURNS: I don't feel comfortable at all. This is not --
BLACKWELL: You also claim to be studying at the Anderson Theological Seminary.
BURNS: Yes, I did.
BLACKWELL: Currently working on his master of theology and pastoral leadership according to the church's website.
We called them. You're not enrolled there. And you enrolled in 2008 and never advanced.
BURNS: Right, do you know how old this is? This has been up there -- I think there's an updated profile on me that's on the website.
BLACKWELL: So is it old or is it tampered?
BURNS: These are old information. This is extremely old information.
BLACKWELL: Seconds later.
BURNS: This is a -- thank you. Thank you so much. I really appreciate you coming. You just take this.
BLACKWELL: Pastor Burns walked out, leaving us in his church.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLACKWELL: The pastor got into his van and actually drove off. You saw there in the interview he blamed potentially a hacker, blamed Photoshop, blamed the media. Now we have a statement where he admits to lying in his bio. Let's put it up. He says "As a young man starting my church in Greenville, South Carolina, I overstated several details of my biography because I was worried I wouldn't be taken seriously as a new pastor. This was wrong. I wasn't truthful then and I have to take full responsibility for my actions. Since that time I should have taken steps to correct any misrepresentations of my background. We all make mistakes, and I hope that the measure of my character and the quality of my works speak for what kind of person I am."
He goes on to say this, "I do also want to set the record straight about why this attack is happening -- because I am black man supporting Donald Trump for president. For too long African-American votes have been taken for granted by Democratic politicians and enough is enough. It's a shame that the political insiders and the media choose to attack me because I'm not going to stay silent about Hillary pandering to our community. Instead I'm going to tell people that there is another option, an option that represents a positive vision that will unify our country. That's why I have and will continue to tirelessly support Mr. Trump."
In just a few minutes we'll go over what this means for Burns, for the Trump campaign, with my guests. We have Kayleigh McEnany, Tara Setmayer, Tharon Johnson standing by, and we'll speak with them next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[10:27:49] PAUL: All right, I want to bring you these live pictures coming to us from Detroit. These are protesters gathered Great Faith Ministries where Donald Trump is scheduled to be at the service. He will be attending in just about half an hour. Do not know if he is there yet. We've had conflicting reports about whether he will actually speak to the congregation there or if he's just going to be in attendance.
But, again, we just saw right before we came back from this break here, during the break, some sort of scuffle. There was some pushing, some shoving it looked like right in the middle there of that crowd. You see they've got bull horns. They're taking pictures. There's a police line there, a security line at least. So no doubt about it, Donald Trump being at this event in Detroit is causing quite a stir in that community. And a lot of people saying, look, his appearance at any African-American community's church or event is long overdue. We're two months from the election.
BLACKWELL: Keep the live pictures up.
PAUL: We're two months from the election. I guess because the camera is trying to refocus itself. But the African community is a community that has felt disenfranchised in so many ways but certainly to Donald Trump. They have been offended by him. They have been very open about that. And yet this is now, some people saying, a little too late for him to show up. This might be part of what they're trying to reiterate there.
BLACKWELL: And part of what we read this morning in the "Detroit Free Press" is the insult some people believe he goes to the church and does not meet with other people, does not come out and meet with a larger group here in Detroit. This was limited to Great Faith Ministries, organized in part by Bishop Wayne T. Jackson who is a pastor there who is -- I don't understand why we keep taking the live pictures down. Let's put this back up. This is what's happening we're talking about.
And there are groups here. We know three groups of organized protests this morning before. We don't know if this is all three groups or this is one of the groups. But as you can see this is a heated moment here.
[10:30:00] Let's go into our panel here. We have Tara Setmayer, we have Kayleigh McEnany and Tharon Johnson back with us. We were planning to talk about Mark Burns, we'll get to that at the moment. Kayleigh, what you're seeing here outside of Great Faith Ministries, your reaction to what we read from some of the pastors who wrote this open letter who really felt insulted that Donald Trump would go to this church and not to the larger community.
MCENANY: Look, Donald Trump is the first GOP candidate to really try to reach out to the African-American community. He's been praised by people like Allen West, saying I'll stand by him on a stage and support him. He's bringing his message here to Detroit. This is the third time he's come to Detroit. Contrast that to Romney who avoided going here. So he's bringing his message to the black community. We can critique him 10 ways to sun down, but he's bringing the message here. He's trying to reach out to the community because he cares, and that is a very good thing.
BLACKWELL: Tara, would a rally, would an open event I guess have been a better way to build this bridge or have this conversation with the African-American community there in Detroit?
SETMAYER: Absolutely. There are a number of ways that this could have been handled differently and better. I'm not going to give Donald Trump a gold star because he's actually gone into a minority community for the first time in -- 60 days before the election. If he cared so much about minorities and black folks, then where has he been throughout his career, number one? Number two, where has he been for the last 14 months of his campaign?
He could have gone to, without making it a spectacle, because that's what Donald Trump does all the time. Without it being a spectacle, he could have gone to plenty of conservative black leaders in communities from Bob Woodson and the Center for Neighborhood Enterprise and the amazing work he's been doing for 30 plus years in the community. He could have gone there and sat with Bob Woodson and had him go through some of the programs and the people he's dealt with in these communities. He could have done that. He could have gone to less controversial bishops in the area of Detroit. There are a million things he could have done differently. But instead it has turned into a spectacle because he's pandering 60 days before an election because 60 percent of Americans think that Donald Trump is a bigot. That's what this is about. And anybody who says otherwise is just being completely disingenuous.
BLACKWELL: Tara, you brought up the b word, "bigot." Tharon, I'm going to come to you, because that's the word that Donald Trump used to describe Hillary Clinton. He pulled back a bit from that, but some of his supporters still use that term. His case in cities like Detroit, Chicago, which we talked about this morning, that under Democratic rule, under Democratic leadership, that they have continued to crumble.
JOHNSON: Well, what we're seeing right now on this live shot is sort of a reaction from the African-American community that really feels insulted. As Tara just pointed out, he's been running for president for 14 months. With less than 70 days to go before the election he wants to go -- one of the things we didn't point out. He wanted to be scripted today. He was so insulting that he did not even want to come in front of this community in a very passionate genuine way and talk to us. So he had to be sent the questions in order to feel comfortable.
But then what you also see here today is I really hope the protesters remain peaceful because what we do not need is a very violent and a tragic event to happen in Detroit. And the thing about Mark Burns, what you're seeing today, is a lot of the African-Americans are mad that Donald Trump uses this pastor to introduce him at all of these rallies but has yet to come out and publicly say anything to defend this African-American pastor.
I mean, when his campaign manager pushed a reporter and when his chairman had these allegations going on in his campaign, Donald Trump was quick to come to defend those folks. But this shows that he is not genuinely, you know, supportive of the African-American community. And I think these protests we are watching right now in Detroit will continue to happen because all Donald Trump is doing, he's talking at African-Americans. But he's really trying to appeal to white middle class Republican women. And I think it's a flawed strategy, and I think people see right through this rhetoric that Donald Trump is trying to put before us.
BLACKWELL: We sent questions to the Trump campaign about Mark Burns and their vetting process. Stand by. I want to bring in Jeremy Diamond who is near the protest
outside the Great Faith Ministry there. Jeremy, what are we looking at here?
DIAMOND: We've seen a number of protesters. There was first a press conference with a lot of community and religious leaders as well as a couple elected officials. And then a group of about perhaps 50 protesters came through. There may be more, actually, it's hard to tell from where I am right now. But there are a number of protesters coming to protest Donald Trump's visit here in Detroit.
[10:35:02] This is as Donald Trump is appeal to African-American voters, one that is being fiercely criticized by a number of leaders here in the community. I spoke with several including the president of the Detroit City Council who criticized Donald Trump for making this appearance, which she said was largely scripted, you know, saying that Donald Trump is going and doing this interview for which he has received a number of the questions in advance. And he's doing this in essentially a safe space.
Members of the public, unless you're attending this church, a member of this church, it seems you're not able to actually get inside the church. And so these community leaders are saying, listen, Donald Trump may be coming here and trying to speak to African-American voters, doing so, again. You know, previously, he's spoken to largely white audiences about African-Americans and now he's doing it before an African-American audience. But some of these community leaders are saying that is simply not enough. And that is why we're seeing all of these protesters right now outside of the Great Faith Ministries here in Detroit. It's certainly continuing a boisterous protest, and we'll have to see what Donald Trump is saying inside as well. We'll be hearing those comments very soon. Victor?
BLACKWELL: Jeremy, and I know that you are a bit away from the protest and maybe you don't have the answer, just let us know if you don't. Do you know if there have been any arrests? We saw a bit of a scrum, some pushing and shoving between the officials there who have their back to the church and some of the protesters.
DIAMOND: I don't know yet of any arrests. But these protesters arrived only 10, 15 minutes ago. So it would be a little bit early for that. But certainly police are here with a presence. We have a few police units mounted on horseback who are typically here for crowd dispersion. And we have a number of other police officers who just arrived from the Detroit police. So we'll see how the situation unfolds and whether it remains peaceful and if there are any arrests we'll certainly let you know.
BLACKWELL: Jeremy Diamond outside of Great Faith Ministries. Let's pause for a moment and just listen to what's happening there in Detroit.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because Trump is not right. He's a racist. He's a bigot. He's a misogynist, and he's a hater of men. He shouldn't be over here trying to get the black people's vote. We are against him. And everybody, I want y'all to help me say "Dump the Trump." CROWD: Dump the Trump!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dump the Trump!
CROWD: Dump the Trump!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dump the Trump!
CROWD: Dump the Trump!
BLACKWELL: All right, you're hearing some of the chants there at this protest if you're just joining us. This is outside of Great Faith Ministries in Detroit, the African-American church where Donald Trump will be attending service this morning and then participating in a recorded Q&A with Bishop Wayne T. Jackson to air we're told in about a week on Impact Television Network, a Christian cable network.
I want to bring back in Kayleigh, Tara, and Tharon. And Kayleigh, to you, your reaction to what you're seeing here?
MCENANY: You're going to have protesters. There's no doubt about it. But I encourage voters to really go look at Donald Trump's resume. Go on YouTube and what you'll see Jesse Jackson, there's a video of him standing beside Donald Trump, calling him a friend, praising him for his gusto and put the light on Wall Street and bring black people into Wall Street when he opened his building to the Rainbow Push Coalition.
JOHNSON: That's so weak.
BLACKWELL: Hold on, hold on.
MCENANY: You can also find Abe Foxman from the Anti-Defamation League who praised him and said he brought the spotlight on discrimination in West Palm Beach. You'll also find Donald Trump was the first candidate to say I want to bring down the confederate flag to come down in South Carolina. There's going to be an attempt to paint him as a racist, but I think it's very sad. That is a highly offensive term. He's not that. And by the way, look at the latest FOX poll, more than a majority of Americans think that is an unfair way to characterize Donald Trump.
BLACKWELL: Tara?
SETMAYER: OK, first of all, the reason why Donald Trump donated that space to Jesse Jackson, which I think it's kind of laughable that all of a sudden Republicans are praising Jesse Jackson as someone we should respect. We all know about Jesse Jackson and his shakedown operations. And that's what was going on at that time. So Donald Trump and Jesse Jackson forged a relationship so Jesse Jackson wouldn't come after Donald Trump's companies during his shakedown stuff he was doing at that time in corporate America. So that's out.
SETMAYER: Mar-a-Lago, enough with this Mar-a-Lago talking point. What happened, Donald Trump used that as an opportunity to get the regulations and permits he needed in Palm Beach to change Mar-a-Lago. He wanted to do all kinds of things to that property and the Palm Beach community wasn't happy about it because they considered new money. So he embarrassed, he used the issue of not allowing blacks and Jews into that club, he used that as a way to embarrass the Palm Beach council down there so he could get what he wanted for his club. So to hold that up as some kind of Martin Luther King civil rights act on the part of Donald Trump is ridiculous. He did it for his own selfish purposes.
[10:40:01] MCENANY: The Anti-Defamation League disagrees with you there.
BLACKWELL: Hold on, hold on, hold on.
SETMAYER: They can be happy. Look, that's great that blacks and Jews were allows into his club. Let's not act like the motivation was because Donald Trump felt as those --
MCENANY: You don't know that.
SETMAYER: I just told you and if you look up the case you would know it.
MCENANY: I have looked up the case.
SETMAYER: You got to stop with that talking point.
BLACKWELL: Kayleigh --
SETMAYER: That overshadows Donald Trump's other major problems, from the Central Park Five and calling for the death penalty for five young minorities in New York at a highly charged time when they were completely exonerated and won $42 million in restitution from New York because they were wrongly convicted for raping a young white woman in New York. He never apologized for that. For the civil rights lawsuit, the Fair Housing Act violations that they had in the 70s and 80s, they never apologized for that.
MCENANY: Never proven in a court of law, Tara, never proven.
SETMAYER: And the consent decree, Kayleigh. You went to Harvard Law School. You know what that is. And they violated that consent decree and the Justice Department had to go back a third time to go after them for not living up to it.
And thirdly, Donald Trump was also, his casinos in Atlantic City were fined for workplace discrimination for removing black dealers from the floor in casino because high rollers didn't want him there.
(CROSSTALK)
SETMAYER: And black people see right through it.
BLACKWELL: Kayleigh, let me ask you this, and you can get to those points. I want to know what do you expect the tone will be that Donald Trump will take? I imagine he won't be fiery during this church service. We all know the decorum of religious ceremony. But during this interview, do you think he will say -- ask this pastor, what the hell do you have to lose? Will he take that tone to the Impact Network?
MCENANY: I think he's going to bring up really issues that are important in the black community. And I know that Tara wants to get --
SETMAYER: How would he know?
MCENANY: -- into a knock, drag out fight about the past, and voters can look up the case. I let you speak for two minutes. Voters can go look up the case. They can see it was never proven in a court of law.
But all of this is so unfair to voters. This entire discussion is unfair to voters because you're sitting there marginalizing his outreach rather than addressing his argument. Donald Trump is standing in Detroit saying 40 percent of people in this city are in poverty. More than half of people in the city do not have a job. This is what voters care about. We can try to depict him as a racist, we can do whatever we want, but this is unfair to voters. Voters care about the economy. Voters care about getting into colleges and being able to afford colleges. This entire discussion to me is completely unfair to the American voter who wants to know what these two candidates are going to do to improve their live and their well-being.
BLACKWELL: Stand by, hold on for a second there. We've got Jeremy Diamond who has gotten closer to the protests. What are you seeing, what are you hearing?
DIAMOND: I think there's about at least 100 protesters right outside of the building. We have a number of people making their statements, saying that he doesn't respect the movement essentially of Black Lives Matter or in general, doesn't respect African-Americans --
BLACKWELL: I'm sorry, Jeremy, I'm having difficulty hearing you. You may be just a little too close to the protests now. You can give us a little distance so we can understand what you're saying so we can get those details.
We'll take a quick break, try to fix the audio issue. Kayleigh, Tara, Tharon, stay with us. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[10:46:58] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because Trump is not right. He's a racist. He's a bigot. He's a misogynist. And he's a hater of men. And he shouldn't be over here trying to get the black people's vote. We are against him. Everybody, I want y'all to help me say "Dump the Trump!"
CROWD: Dump the Trump!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dump the Trump!
CROWD: Dump the Trump!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PAUL: All right, that is the protest happening right now outside the Great Faith Ministries there in Detroit. In 10 minutes Donald Trump is set to be in that church for a service with their congregation. And this is what is meeting him outside. We're trying to understand how many people there are, but this gotten -- there was some shoving between some protesters and some of the security officials there. Let's go to Jeremy Diamond because he is right near there. Jeremy, what are you hearing?
DIAMOND: There are a couple hundred protesters outside of the church where Donald Trump is set to address the congregation and do an interview with the pastor of that church, Bishop Wayne Jackson. So far from what I have seen the protests have remained very, very peaceful. We've seen a number of people vociferously sharing their views, chanting against Donald Trump, saying that they are here to protest his visit to Detroit.
And of course all of this comes as Donald Trump is finally trying to make his outreach to African-Americans in an African-American community. You know, we've seen him say African-Americans need to vote for me. They need to give me a chance. But he's done so before predominantly white audiences. And a large reason why he's done that is because when he comes to a place like Detroit which is majority black, you have a lot of protests because don. Has said some things that a lot of the protestors here say have been hurtful or offensive. It starts of course with Donald Trump questioning President Obama's citizenship, questioning whether he was born in this country years ago. And it goes to what he said during this campaign. You know, dismissing the Black Lives Matter movement.
And his latest outreach has been criticized by African-American leaders, you know, he said things like what do you have to lose, you have nothing to lose. You have no jobs, you have no schools. For a lot of the African-Americans who we've talked to here today, they say that's not necessarily the reality. They say, sure, there is poverty, there are problems. But that is not by and large the overwhelming majority of African-Americans who have no jobs and no poverty.
BLACKWELL: It's important to note there are these intense protests outside of -- or in communities that are not majority black as well. This is not exclusive to majority-minority communities.
PAUL: To what you're speaking to, Jeremy, there was a sign I saw earlier, a man holding up saying "I am not poor. I have a job." You can see in what they write on the signs what resonated with them and what has them so upset. Do we have Michael Kranish with us?
[10:50:02] BLACKWELL: We don't have him yet -- we do.
PAUL: Michael Kranish, thank you so much. "Washington Post" and the author of the new book that's come out "Trump Revealed, an American Journey of Ambition, Ego, Money, and Power." Michael, thank you so much for being with us.
MICHAEL KRANISH, INVESTIGATIVE POLITICAL REPORTER, "THE Washington POST": Thanks for having me.
PAUL: As you're watching with us here, these protests, what did you learn in all of your research about Donald Trump, and what is your reaction to what you're seeing here?
KRANISH: Donald Trump bypassed a very good opportunity to address African-Americans when he didn't accept an invitation to go to the NAACP convention before the Republican Convention. So he might have laid out a broad plan to address a lot of economic anxiety that's across America and certainly among a segment of the African-American community.
What we found, and this was a book done by a team of reporters at "The Washington Post," is that there is a long history of Trump and racial issues. Very briefly, the U.S. government sued Donald Trump and his father and their company for race bias. This was considered one of the most important cases at the time it was brought. The Trumps owned 14,000 rental units in New York City and the government accused them of coding things so when agents came to greet potential applicants they marked down "C" for colors, or number nine for black, and direct a lot of them to other places, and the government accused them of racial bias.
And I heard you guys talk earlier. What happened in the case was there was a consent decree. Both sides essentially get to declare victory and say I won. Trump, I asked him about this directly about the case. And he said, well, this was a suit against a lot of people. And I said, no, actually this was a case against you and your father and your company. He said, that's right, but we settled and I got a better deal than if I had agreed right away. And the government put a press release out at the time saying this is one of the most historic agreements we have ever reached in a case like this. So it was a very important case. And Trump to this day is upset about that. He feels an animus toward the federal government for bringing it.
And one thing he's learned from that case is the lawyer in that case was a person Roy Cohn. He taught Donald Trump when you're hit, hit back 10 times harder. And he's maintained that. That case affects him to this day.
But what we're seeing today is some of the outgrowth of some statements he has made. He is certainly a very controversial person when he talks. And as I said at the outset, he didn't address the NAACP. That might have been an opportunity to lay out his vision, and his main point has been that he can do things for the economy overall.
BLACKWELL: Michael, let me ask you quickly, the appreciation that Donald Trump has for what we're seeing here, what is his reaction? What is his response to having become many would say a divisive character --
PAUL: Polarizing.
BLACKWELL: Polarizing, that's the word I'm looking for.
KRANISH: Sure. One of the things we see here is Donald Trump's whole life has been one of a provocateur and taking that to the media. He basically has said all publicity is good publicity. But being a provocateur has its price. And you're seeing some of that. You've got this sort of collision between I'm the dealmaker, I can work with all sorts of people, but also being so provocative in the way he has been certainly.
And I'm sure to him, it's frustrating. We asked him about this, and he said I'm the least racist person you ever meet. So we write about that as well in the book. That is his response. One your guests talked about the Central Park Five case in which there were five people charged with assaulting a woman in Central Park. He put an ad in the newspaper saying bring back the death penalty. It was a very controversial case, there were charges at the time he was stoking racial tensions. And later the convictions were overturned as one of the guests stated correctly. There was a settlement and Donald Trump said they got a great deal, they shouldn't have got that money, and he refused to apologize. So all those things are in the memory bank if you followed his career, those are controversial statements, certainly.
PAUL: Michael, thank you. Michael Kranish there for us.
BLACKWELL: I want to bring Tara Setmayer and Kayleigh McEnany back in. they've been standing by. Kayleigh, quickly to you, because we only have two minutes here, does this visit considering what we're seeing now accomplish what Donald Trump went to Detroit to accomplish?
MCENANY: Yes, it does. And we'll see how he does in the church. I suspect he'll do very well at the church and the interview.
But I want to point out the huge double standard I think when it comes to Trump's words and other people's words. You know, the last hour you had Pastor Michael Pfleger on who talked about how children have come to him and prayed that they don't get shot is what he told them in the city of Chicago. He also mentioned that they should call a state of emergency in the city of Chicago because there have been more than 2,000 shooters there. Yet when Donald Trump brings this up, all of a sudden he's painting a downtrodden picture of a community. He's exaggerating, et cetera, et cetera, when those are the facts.
BLACKWELL: Let me interject here. The difference is Father Pfleger is saying it in Chicago in a black church in the black community to black people face to face. That may be the difference here between what Donald Trump is saying in Diamondale versus going to that community and saying it.
[10:55:11] MCENANY: But he's in Detroit today. He was in Jackson, Mississippi. He's had many, many meetings with his black advisors going back to the primaries. Like I said he was the first candidate to advocate for the flag coming down, the Confederate flag in South Carolina. He's done the right things. We can marginalize his outreach, but none of that does anything to change the reality a lot of kids are praying, according to Michael Pfleger, that they're not getting shot because that is a reality in some of these communities and it's very sad.
PAUL: Tara, we have about 30 seconds left. Go ahead.
SETMAYER: You know what, it's interesting to me that this feigned outrage is coming from people like Kayleigh and other Trump supporters about how upset they are about what's going on in the black community. Where have you been, and where has Donald Trump been? These are -- what's going on in these communities, there are generational issues that are way more important than just some talking points that maybe you memorized so you can defend Donald Trump. You know, these are things that require investments in the community. I am not a fan of Father Pfleger, but at least he is there trying to do something. That's not what Donald Trump is doing here.
BLACKWELL: We got to wrap it there. Tara and Kayleigh, I know you understand. Thank you so much being with us.
SETMAYER: Thank you.
PAUL: And thank you for continuing to watch this morning. We're going to continue, obviously, to have more of happening in Detroit there as we're about four minutes away from Donald Trump being in that congregation seeing whether he's going to address them.
BLACKWELL: Next hour of Newsroom starts right after this break.
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