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WORLD RIGHT NOW WITH HALA GORANI
Donald Trump Gaining Ground On Hillary Clinton; Clinton Speaks To Reporters Aboard Her Plane; U.S. Canceled Meeting Between Obama And Duterte; Islamist Preacher Sentenced In London; Charlie Hebdo Under Fire Over Quake Cartoon; 2016 Deadliest Year In Two Decades For Chicago; U.S. Pledges $90M For Laos To Clear Unexploded Bombs; Anjem Choudary Sentenced To Five And A Half Years; Tattooing Faith And History On The Skin. Aired 3- 4p ET
Aired September 6, 2016 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[15:00:14] HALA GORANI, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Hala Gorani. We are live at CNN London and we'll be live in many capitals
around the world this hour. Thanks for being with us. This is THE WORLD RIGHT NOW.
Just nine weeks to go and the race is neck and neck now. A new poll shows a dramatic turnaround for Donald Trump in his battle against Hillary
Clinton. He has closed the gap, making the U.S. presidential race a statistical dead heat.
A new CNN/ORC poll interviewed likely voters across the country, Trump a slight edge over Clinton, 45 percent to 43 percent in a four-way race.
Gary Johnson, the Libertarian candidate at 7 percent, Jill Stein at 2 percent.
We have to remind you that U.S. presidential elections are decided state by state so national polls only go so far in predicting the outcome. Both
candidates are focusing their efforts on key battleground states. Trump is campaigning right now in Virginia while Clinton is in the state of Florida.
Let's bring in Stephen Collinson, a senior reporter for CNN Politics. He has been analyzing what it would take for Trump to bring pull off one of
the greatest come backs in U.S. political history at this stage.
First, let's talk about the statistical dead heat with Trump even two percentage points ahead of Hillary Clinton nationally, what's going on?
Paint a picture of what the poll illustrates right now in America.
STEPHEN COLLINSON, CNN POLITICS SENIOR ENTERPRISE REPORTER: It's really interesting, Hala, because just a month ago, after the Democratic
convention in Philadelphia, Hillary Clinton was leading by ten points in a CNN poll of polls survey, which is like a survey, an average of all the
best national polls.
It seems like the race has tightened dramatically in the last few weeks. Donald Trump, you know, he's had a tough time at points during the last few
weeks, the focus on his temperament and character.
But something seems to be going on in the electorate. This poll is very interesting. There are signs that other polls are narrowing as well.
We've come to this point, Labor Day, which was yesterday, is like the holiday that's seen as the official start, if you like, of the end game of
the presidential race.
So it looks like we have a very close race. I don't think it's surprising, this is a polarized country. We have two candidates who are, you know,
vastly disliked by much of the electorate.
So it's very interesting to see how this will play out. I think the next big sort of turning point in this race will be the debates, the
presidential debates. They're going to start in about three weeks' time.
GORANI: And we're starting to see how Hillary Clinton perhaps is shifting her strategy. She's given the second of what she calls her gaggles on her
campaign plane, so essentially a mini-news conference, inviting questions from reporters.
Let's listen to what she had to say today just a few minutes ago on her campaign plane and I'll get you to comment on that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He said that the American people don't care about his tax returns and in fact he's also said that
it's none of our business. I just think he's dead wrong.
I mean, the reason that presidential candidates going back decades have released their tax returns is because the American people not to know. He
clearly has something to hide.
We don't know exactly what it is, but we're getting better guesses about what it probably is. And if he's going to pursue this campaign, he owes it
to the American people to come clean and release those tax returns.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: And Steven, she even said, I'm going to keep bringing this up until we get an answer. It seems like this is a strategy for the Clinton
campaign to attack Trump now on his tax returns.
COLLINSON: All right, definitely, Hala. I think what we saw over the last month was that the Hillary Clinton campaign was content to let Donald Trump
make his missteps in public, try not to get in the way of that.
[15:05:06]The last two days, there seems to have been a change of strategy. Maybe it's because they got wind perhaps that the polls were changing,
maybe it was planned all along. Two days in a row now, Hillary Clinton has gone to the back of her campaign plane and talked to the press.
There's been a lot of complaints from journalists covering her that she's inaccessible and she doesn't like talking to them, doesn't like sort of
opening up to the media. This is a definite change.
I think what Hillary Clinton has realized is that she has to keep the focus in these last few weeks on Donald Trump himself, his temperament, his
personality, his readiness to be president, and some of the things in his past that she thinks voters will find problematic.
So it's definitely a change of campaign strategy. I think it's showing some more urgency in fact on the part of the Hillary Clinton campaign.
She's preparing the way, you know, preparing the ground and preparing the lines and testing outlines ahead of those presidential debates, which start
in three weeks, as I said.
GORANI: I was going to say, that first debate, the first matchup is probably the most important moment for Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump in
this entire campaign, right?
COLLINSON: Definitely. You can just imagine the size of the audience that's going to tune into that, not just in the U.S., but around the world.
I mean, there are a lot of people around the world, you talk to diplomats who are very perturbed by the idea that Donald Trump could actually win
this and become president.
This poll that we've released today is going to do nothing to assuage those worries. It is really the moment when these two candidates will stand
before the American people and, you know, present themselves as a potential commander-in-chief, the person in charge of the nuclear codes.
I don't think you can overstate how important it's going to be. The expectations for Donald Trump will actually be very low because he is a
non-politician and outsider. That could be a problem for Hillary Clinton - - Hala.
GORANI: Stephen Collinson, thanks very much as always.
Well, the Clinton campaign is taking those new poll numbers in stride. I spoke with Kristina Schake, the campaign's deputy communications director.
I told her, your strategy must now change going forward in light of those poll numbers. Here is how she answered.
KRISTINA SCHAKE, DEPUTY COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, HILLARY FOR AMERICA: You know, our strategy is the same that it's been on day one. We have believed
from the very beginning of this campaign that it is going to be close. That this is going to be a very tight race.
And Hillary is out there every day, working her heart out to win every vote that she can. You know, in terms of this particular poll, we think it's
probably an outlier. We didn't really agree with the methodology of how the poll was put together.
But regardless, we view this as a very tight race, we always thought it was going to be, and she'll work her heart out to win.
GORANI: So there's no adjustment to the strategy based on some of these very close numbers?
SCHAKE: No, no. Our strategy from the beginning has been to work hard in all 50 states and she is out there doing that.
GORANI: I want to ask you about the book "Stronger Together" that she co- authored with Tim Kaine, her running mate. Specifically because we are seen all around the world and many Americans who travel watch CNN to get
their news specifically on foreign policy. What are Hillary Clinton's proposals to solve, for instance, first of all, the war in Syria?
SCHAKE: Well, you know, she has a real plan to defeat ISIS and also to combat global terrorism. Unlike Donald Trump, who has said he has a secret
plan that he's not going to reveal to the American voters. He himself has degraded the American military and says he knows more than the American
She doesn't believe that. Hillary is serious. She has the judgment. She has the knowledge. She has the skill set to be America's commander-in-
GORANI: But what about the Syrian war? Because this is really an existential problem, not just for the Middle East, for Europe, there's a
refugee crisis. What specifically does Hillary Clinton propose with regards to Syria first?
SCHAKE: She has a real plan for that. She has talked about intensifying our air power in Syria. She wants to go further than President Obama and
create a no-fly zone. She wants to strengthen our partnership with the people fighting on the ground with America's allies.
She wants to dismantle the international network that's supplying fighters and propaganda to the people fighting in Syria. So she also has called for
an intelligence surge and to strengthen our defenses here in the United States.
GORANI: She would support a no-fly zone. In other words, that's real military intervention in Syria?
SCHAKE: She believes that that's what we need to do to protect people on the ground.
GORANI: And regarding ISIS?
SCHAKE: She has a real plan that -- and that's one of the things she talks about extensively in her book. You know, CNN will be covering it today.
Senator Kaine is giving a serious speech on foreign policy today.
One of the important things he's talking about is the Clinton/Kaine plan to defeat ISIS. We've got to disrupt their international network. We've got
to stop the flow of fighters and money. And we have to stop the propaganda that's happening.
[15:10:03]And one part of their plan is working more closely with Silicon Valley here in the United States to dismantle the propaganda and what
they're able to do on social media so that we can stop what they're doing.
GORANI: Going back to this poll, I know you don't agree with the methodology, although it has to be said you didn't bring up methodology
questions when the polls were very much in favor of Hillary Clinton.
But let's talk a little bit about what could go wrong because in a tight race, the smallest slipup can be very, very damaging. What in your opinion
could still go wrong here for your candidate?
SCHAKE: You know, I'll say, although we disagree with the methodology of this poll, we take it very seriously. You know, every single poll, we're
doing our own polling, we consider this a very tight race.
So the findings of today, for us just make us look, again, at the strategy and our own efforts to get our supporters out there, to get American voters
registered into the polls. We're taking this very seriously. We always consider this a close race.
GORANI: So it's about turnout.
SCHAKE: For us, we want to make sure that Americans understand that Donald Trump is a dangerous and erratic candidate. That he doesn't have the skill
set, he doesn't have the judgment or the knowledge to be America's president, to keep us safe and grow our economy.
GORANI: All right. That was Kristina Schake, a communications adviser to Hillary Clinton. Clearly, you can see here that the battle is moving
toward always trying to move the answer toward Donald Trump and criticism of Donald Trump, as of course we enter this very, very important final last
lap in the presidential election.
While Trump and Clinton battle it out to be the next U.S. president, the current president, Barack Obama, is in Laos meeting leaders from Southeast
Most of them that is because he cancelled talks with the Philippines president, Rodrigo Duterte, after vulgar language that appeared to be aimed
his way. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RODRIGO DUTERTE, PHILIPPINE PRESIDENT: Who is he? I am a president of a sovereign state and we have long faced inequality. I don't have any master
except the Filipino people. Nobody but nobody.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Well, Duterte then went on to use a profanity. He's expressed regret saying that the remark was aimed at a journalist instead. Let's get
more details now from our Elise Labott. She joins me live from the State Department in Washington.
What goes into a decision to cancel a high level meeting like this with a country that is after all a very close American ally in the region?
ELISE LABOTT, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, that's right, Hala. You know, since President Duterte took office, swept to power in a
landslide in May, there's been a lot of tension with this relationship between the U.S. and the Philippines.
Duterte's language, his extra-judicial killings of drug dealers and criminals has really concerned the administration because of lack of
attention to human rights.
And so the U.S. already had some qualms about the president meeting with President Duterte. After the president heard these comments by President
Duterte, essentially calling the president in his native language as the son of a whore, really thought this is not going to be a very productive
So obviously part of it was snubbing, you know, the president after these comments, but the U.S. is thinking this is not going to be a very
productive meeting, a very productive relationship. So the president cancelled and instead met with a very close ally, President Park of South
GORANI: Well, yes, usually, I mean, when there is even a shadow of a doubt that you're being called the son of a whore by somebody, I guess the
natural instinct anybody would have would to be to cancel the meeting.
But this has to have -- I mean, you know, people laugh a little bit about it, but this has to have some strategic impact in the region when these
high level meetings are cancelled, right or not, or will this not have an impact on that level?
LABOTT: Well, if you remember, like, just the last month there was an incident with President Duterte using the same incendiary language about
the U.S. ambassador, Phil Goldberg.
And what the -- when we talked to officials and experts at the time, they said, listen, the U.S. relationship with the Philippines is very important.
The two countries have been strengthening their militaries. The U.S. sees the Philippines as an important counterweight against China. They've been
really supporting the Philippines' claims in the South China Sea.
They feel that they've been able to weather these tensions, but as the U.S. concerned about -- it's about the language, of course, and about the snub.
But the U.S. is also very concerned about the direction of the Philippines under President Duterte, about the lack of attention to human rights, about
the fact that he's a wild card. So there are a lot of concerns.
I think they'll try to weather this storm and, you know, maintain the close military ties that they have, but certainly this does set back the
relationship in the near term.
[15:15:05]GORANI: All right, Elise Labott, thanks very much at the State Department with more reaction to that diplomatic incident.
A lot more to come this evening, he was dubbed Britain's most hated man. Now the Islamist preacher has been jailed. Details next.
"Charlie Hebdo" courts controversy again, but few are finding humor in their latest satire, of Italian earthquake victims. We have reaction from
GORANI: A court in London has sentenced radical Muslim preacher, Anjem Choudary to five and a half years in prison. He was found guilty of
inviting support for ISIS earlier this year. You're familiar probably with his face, his name.
He went on for years saying some of these things without get in trouble with the law, but this time he has. The police decided to arrest him when
he pledged allegiance to ISIS in 2014 and was inviting others to do the same.
CNN's Phil Black is at the Old Bailey Court where the ruling was delivered. How did they arrive at five and a half years?
PHIL BLACK, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It's five and a half years with time knocked off that he's already served in custody. The maximum
possible sentence was ten years. The judge said there's no real precedent for that.
So the judge felt that this was the right sentence that punished him, sent a message to deter others, but I think there's no doubt there will be
people who will be a little bit disappointed by this.
GORANI: OK, because they wanted the full ten years. What about how he will be held in prison? One of the big issues that all of Europe has had
with some of these extremist groups and individuals is that they are -- they go into prison sort of somewhat extremist, then they are full-blown
radicals by the time they get out. How will they control who he preaches to?
BLACK: The judge said, I think you're going to keep spreading this message no matter where you are. We put the question to the prison service and
they said, no comment. So we don't know officially just yet.
What we do know is that recently the British government announced a series of changes to try and combat this flourishing of extremism behind bars, and
it includes they say holding known extremists in separate specialist units.
BLACK: Together but not mixed with the general population, that's the key thing. Not giving them a chance to spread the hate, if you like. But what
that means in a practical sense we still don't know.
GORANI: His lawyer is saying this might be cruel and unusual.
BLACK: His lawyer pointed to the possibility of being held in solitary isolation, how he wouldn't handle that very well. This lawyer also said
that he regretted to swaying to this side of the law after decades of being very careful as we know of not stepping onto the wrong side of the law.
Saying things that a lot of people didn't like, but not breaching that legality. His lawyer seemed to argue that that was a point for -- a
mitigating point, if you like.
GORANI: Did he regret doing it or did he regret getting caught for it?
BLACK: Well, he said he regretted doing it, but the judge didn't really listen to that.
GORANI: All right, so five and a half years possibility of early release on parole.
BLACK: Indeed, yes. The judge said he'll serve at least half of that time.
[15:20:00]GORANI: All right, Phil black, thanks very much for that report.
Now British Airways says it has fixed, finally, a computer glitch that caused complaints from travelers in the United States. Delays and long
lines were reported at multiple airports including Atlanta, Chicago, and Boston. You might have been one of those passengers. If so, sorry you had
a rough day.
Customers in the Bahamas and Mexico also experienced problems. The airline said this was not a worldwide issue and that there were no cancellations.
Tuesday's glitch follows similar system problems recently with Delta and Southwest Airlines.
Also speaking of a nightmarish day at the airport, an airport in London right here experienced its own delays for a completely different reason. A
group of Black Lives Matter U.K. protesters, not the U.S. branch of this, but here in the you U.K., erected a tripod and locked themselves together
on a runway, temporarily shutting down the London City Airport.
The activists claim they're protesting Britain's, quote, "environmental impact on the lives of black people locally and globally." The nine
protesters were arrested and the runway has since reopened.
There is nothing even remotely humorous about an earthquake or its victims, but the French satirical magazine "Charlie Hebdo" seems to disagree. It
published this cartoon depicting the victims of the disaster as popular Italian pasta dishes like lasagna.
The image has been widely condemned online. Italians who expressed solidarity with the magazine when it came under attack in 2015 said the
cartoon is, quote, "terrible and in bad taste."
Ben Wedeman joins me now live from CNN Rome with more on Italy's reaction. So people are saying essentially there are limits to what you can do with
under the free speech banner from "Charlie Hebdo?"
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Nobody in Italy, Hala, is suggesting that somehow they should be punished legally for this
lapse in good taste. Many Italians simply say, look, when "Charlie Hebdo" was attacked and its staff murdered in January of 2015, and when Paris was
attacked and more than a hundred people were killed in November of last year, Italians came out and expressed their solidarity, their sympathy,
their support for the people of staff and for the staff of "Charlie Hebdo."
And then "Charlie Hebdo" turns around and comes out with these fairly tasteless cartoons and it's not just that. CNN did contact "Charlie Hebdo"
today to see if they had any reaction to the criticism pouring out of Italy.
They said, we don't react to criticism, to particular cartoons. However, "Charlie Hebdo" did add insult to insult by coming out with a cartoon that
said -- the caption said, hey, Italians, "Charlie Hebdo" didn't build your houses, the mafia did.
Italians are weary of these over-worn stereotypes, pasta, pizza, the mafia. We got a statement, we heard a statement from the interior minister who
said, "We wept for their dead, they laughed at ours using their sarcasm. I have a suggestion but where they should stick their pencil."
GORANI: So they may want an apology from "Charlie Hebdo" on this one, but it certainly seems as though they're not getting one anytime soon.
WEDEMAN: No, I doubt they will be getting it, but they did -- the French embassy here in Rome did issue a statement saying that the "Charlie Hebdo"
cartoons do not reflect the position of France. That's probably as much as they're going to get out of a magazine that revels in a sense in offending
GORANI: I'm not sure they hate the attention either that they get from it. Thanks very much, Ben Wedeman, live in Rome as always.
Now to a grim statistic from America's third largest city. Chicago's homicide rate has just soared. Its 500th homicide happened this weekend.
It makes 2016 the deadliest year the city has experienced in two decades.
CNN's Ryan Young hit the streets with Chicago's police superintendent to find out what's going on.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everything is on the table right now in Chicago.
RYAN YOUNG, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): On this night, we join Chicago's top cop, patrolling the streets of Chicago. Superintendent Eddie
Johnson in his new role for less than six months was born and raised in the city and has patrolled the streets for more than 20 years.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the spot where Nykea Aldridge was murdered.
YOUNG: Nykea Aldridge was a mother of four and the cousin of NBA superstar, Dwayne Wade. She was an innocent bystander caught in crossfire
allegedly between two convicted felons, one wearing an ankle monitoring device.
EDDIE JOHNSON, CHICAGO POLICE SUPERINTENDENT: They'd looked at each other and the shooters didn't like the way he looked at them so they took matters
in their own hands, you know, grabbed a couple of pistols and started firing. Unfortunately, she got hit.
[15:25:07]YOUNG (on camera): So there was no prior altercation, no prior beef, no fight, it was literally because of a look?
JOHNSON: Yes. That shows you how quickly things can jump off into violence. Here in Chicago, most of the city is fairly safe from these
types of incidents. This year, we have a list, 1,400 individuals are on that list, and they are the drivers of our gun violence. They are repeat
YOUNG: How can you police that? How can you police the idea that a look or a Facebook or Twitter message can turn into a gun battle?
JOHNSON: The simple honest truth is you can't police something like that. You can't. There's just no way can we predict those types of incidents.
People are mistakenly thinking this is a police issue. It's not. These are the social and economic ills of the country.
YOUNG (voice-over): The violence in Chicago is peaking at levels not seen since the '90s. More than 90 people were murdered just in August, the
highest total in 20 years. The windy city is on pace for more than 600 murders this year.
JOHNSON: It's ridiculous that CPD recovers more illegal handguns than New York City PD and LAPD combined. This year, 2016, CPD has recovered one
illegal handgun for every hour of the year.
YOUNG: All this during a time when trust between the neighborhoods and police continues to be described as extremely tense.
JOHNSON: It's a strained relationship. It's a lot of work. But I believe, you know, people around here have heard me say the police
department is only as strong as the belief the community has in it. That's not lip service. I really believe that. We're arresting the right people.
Holding them accountable is the issue.
GORANI: There you have it. Ryan young reporting.
Still to come, a summer full of missteps is fading away for Donald Trump. We'll have more on the new poll numbers that show a turnaround in his
battle for the White House and what they mean.
And an estimated 80 million bombs are still unexploded in Laos following a bombing campaign there more than 40 years ago. They still kill and maim
thousands of people. We hear from a victim in a few minutes. We'll be right back.
GORANI: The U.S. presidential race is tighter than ever with just nine weeks until the election. A new CNN/ORC poll shows that Donald Trump has
closed the gap with Hillary Clinton. The survey of likely voters nationwide gives Trump a slight edge of two percentage points, that's
within the margin of error,45 to 43.
[15:30:00] Also among the other stories we're following, the U.S. says its relationship with the Philippines is rock solid, and that is despite a
pretty colorful spat between their president. The U.S. cancelled the two leaders' meetings after Rodrigo Duterte used a profanity when talking about
Barack Obama. Mr. Duterte then expressed his regrets saying the remark was really directed at a journalist.
The parent company of Fox News has reached a $20 million settlement deal with anchorwoman, Gretchen Carlson. Carlson sued her former boss, Roger
Ailes, for harassment and retaliation in a highly unusual public statement, Fox issued Carlson an apology.
And also this, the recipient of the world's first face transplant has died. The 49-year-old Isabelle Dinoir passed away in late April following a long
illness, according to a statement released by the hospital. The same one that performed the procedure in 2005. The delay in reporting the death was
at the request of her family. She had initially been mauled by her dog.
Let's return to our top story, Donald Trump's dramatic turnaround in the polls. The presidential race with Hillary Clinton is now essentially dead
even. For a while there, during the summer, the headlines were brutal as Trump took heat for one misstep after another.
At one point in a poll of polls compiled by CNN, Hillary Clinton was ten percentage points ahead. But now it appears he is bouncing back as the
race enters the final stretch. Hillary Clinton says she's not worried.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLINTON: As to the poll, I really pay no attention to polls. When they're good for me, and there have been a lot of them that have been good for me
recently, I don't pay attention. When they're not so good, I don't pay attention.
We are on a course that we are sticking with. I'm going to Florida to encourage people to get registered to vote, to enlist people, students, the
university retirees, everybody in between, to be part of our campaign, and to be actively involved in turning out the vote.
So we're sticking with our strategy. We feel very good about where we are, but we're not taking anything for granted.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: The director of the Center for Politics at the University of Virginia joins me now to look at the numbers. Larry Sabato is in
Charlottesville and joins me via Skype.
You know, I spoke to her deputy communications director today. We're hearing it from Clinton herself. Turnout is going to be extremely
important for Hillary Clinton because she doesn't have that many enthusiastic voters behind her compared to other presidential candidates,
is that right?
LARRY SABATO, DIRECTOR, UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA CENTER FOR POLITICS: Well, that's right, but of course we just entered September, and the election is
November 8th. We do have early voting starting in late September in some states.
Yes, she's got to do something to turn up the enthusiasm level. Probably that will be done not by her but by Donald Trump, or rather fear of Donald
Trump. I should add a lot of other polls are not showing what the CNN poll indicates.
Clinton is still ahead in the polling averages and, most importantly, she is ahead in every single critical large Electoral College swing state.
GORANI: Yes, and that's important to note as well. This is not a nationwide poll. It hinges on these states that could go either way.
We're talking of course about Florida, Ohio, and Virginia. That's why we keep seeing the candidates in those critical states. And your point is
Hillary Clinton is ahead in those critical states.
SABATO: She's ahead, and she has easily seven or eight pathways to a majority of the Electoral College, 270 electors, which is the way you win
the presidency. You don't win the presidency through the popular vote. What about Donald Trump? We can only find two pathways to the presidency
for him, and both are very difficult.
GORANI: But we are 60-something days away, which means any misstep can be extremely damaging both to Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump. What could
still go very wrong here for Hillary Clinton? Because based on your numbers and your calculations, she's ahead in the swing states.
SABATO: We look to the first debate on September 26th. It's always the most-watched of all the debates and often can set the tone for the rest of
the campaign. No one knows what to expect with Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton as a combination and particularly with Trump. It's going to be
fascinating to watch, that's all you can say.
GORANI: I noticed as well that Hillary Clinton, her surrogates, her supporters, whenever we interview them now, when I ask them the question
about what Hillary Clinton's policy proposals are, they'll answer briefly and then spend almost the rest of the answer entirely on attacking Donald
[15:35:00]This is a strategy -- I mean, it seems like a deliberate strategy now to take aim at Donald Trump, you know, almost as much as trying to
promote some of these proposals.
SABATO: That's absolutely true because Donald Trump has enormous unfavorabilities with the Democratic constituency groups that Clinton needs
to motivate to vote. What you were mentioning earlier, trying to get people enthused. If they can't get enthused about voting for Clinton, they
can get enthused about voting against Trump.
GORANI: By the way, I want to tell our viewers what they're seeing on the air now. This is Donald Trump meeting with military spouses. He's in
Virginia Beach, Virginia, in your state, Larry. He's with his daughter, Ivanka, who is very popular with his supporters, Rudy Giuliani, the former
mayor of New York, Mark Flynn, one of his top advisers and a former lieutenant general.
Let's talk -- I keep calling him Mark Flynn, it is Mike Flynn. Tell me about his strategy. What is Donald Trump trying to do here?
SABATO: Well, Donald Trump and his running mate have visited Virginia at least seven times in recent weeks. He is also spending a good deal on
television here, which is remarkable, because Virginia, which used to be a swing state, does not appear to be one this year, partly because Tim Kaine
was put on the Democratic ticket as vice president.
GORANI: So what's the -- I mean, if Virginia is not a swing state this year and it has been in the past, then what's the aim?
SABATO: The reason that he's here is apparently they think they can make it a swing state. We'll see. I think it's extremely difficult. His time
would be much better spent in Florida, in Ohio, in Wisconsin, in Michigan. He's got to have a Florida, North Carolina, and then rust belt strategy in
the Midwest if he's going to win.
GORANI: Lastly, I want to ask you about Hillary Clinton again, pivot back to her. One of her issues has been -- and she's admitted it herself, she
is not a natural campaigner, sometimes her likability numbers aren't as high as she would like them to be.
Recently she's, you know, trying to use humor, trying to be a little perhaps more off-the-cuff in appearances, namely this one. Let's run this,
and then I'll get back to you, Larry.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLINTON: And -- every time I think about Trump, I get allergic.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: All right. So there you have it, he's trying to make light of something, but there is a very serious sort of charge that's
unsubstantiated and based on nothing but innuendo coming from the Trump camp that some perhaps Hillary Clinton has health problems she's not
disclosing. She's trying to make light of it. Is that the right strategy?
SABATO: That's all she can do. The instant I saw that tape, I knew that it would be all over the internet and probably in a Donald Trump ad before
very long. She simply had a coughing fit. She has allergies. Every bit of information we have from her health record, which is more extensive than
the health record we have from Donald Trump, tells us that Hillary Clinton is basically healthy.
GORANI: All right, Larry Sabato of the University of Virginia, we always love having you on. Please come back whenever you like. Thanks very much,
SABATO: Thank you.
GORANI: Now the numbers are absolutely mind-boggling. Over the course of nine years during the '60s and '70s, 2 million tons of bombs were dropped
on Laos. That's one bombing mission every 8 minutes. The impact is still being felt today. Around 80 million bombs remain unexploded, imagine that
in a country the size of Laos.
President Obama is in Laos, the first sitting American president to visit. He's pledged $90 million to help with the program. A warning that Andrew
Stevens' report contains imagery that some viewers may find upsetting.
ANDREW STEVENS, CNN MONEY ASIA-PACIFIC EDITOR: (Inaudible) wasn't even born when the secret war in Laos ended more than four decades ago, but he
carries its horrific legacy. In 2008, life was good. He was 22, engaged, and had a job until an undetected bomb tore it all apart exploding as he
was burning trash.
"I don't remember anything until I woke up in hospital two weeks later," he says. "When I saw what had happened, I didn't want to live anymore." He's
one of an estimated 20,000 victims, many of them children, who have been killed or maimed by unexploded ordinance since the end of the war.
For nine years until 1973, the U.S. carpet-bombed Laos, trying to stop a communist insurgency and smash North Vietnamese supply lines. It was known
as the "Secret War." No American boots on the ground, just American bombs.
[15:40:10]More than 2 million tons of them rained down. Per capita, more explosives were dropped here than on any other country in history and
they're still exploding today. This is a controlled detonation by the Mines Advisory Group, which works in Laos to clear the bombs, literally a
few square yards at a time.
Every patch of land has to be mapped and then swept. Once detected, they zero in on the object and uncover it and this is what they usually find.
Cluster munitions known locally as bomb beats. Up to 80 million of these failed to detonate, and just 1 percent of them have been cleared.
(on camera): How long, realistically, with the resources at the country's disposal, is it going to take to make this country safe?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Currently, with the resources, decades.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
STEVENS: That is one more explosive device taken out. But across these plains, across these valleys, and across these mountains, there are still
tens of millions of threats remaining.
(voice-over): Those threats are what worries him more than anything else, that his own children born after the accident could suffer the same fate
that he did. Andrew Stevens, Laos.
GORANI: You can check out our Facebook page for more. We'll put up some of our more interesting interviews there. Facebook.com/halagoranicnn.
This is THE WORLD RIGHT NOW. Anjem Choudary is going to jail, but how has he been able to radicalize Muslims for decades? We'll discuss it with a
former senior police officer. We'll be right back.
GORANI: Let's return to one of our big stories this hour, the sentencing of radical Muslim preacher, Anjem Choudary. He will spend the next five
and a half years in prison, technically he could get out earlier. He's been making his extreme views known for well over two decades. This is
what the British born preacher said during an interview with CNN last year.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANJEM CHOUDARY, CONVICTED ISLAMIST PREACHER: We know who the enemy are. The enemy have always been those regimes who want to take Islam away from
us and give us their own version of Islam, a western version, which has no Shariah, has no jihad. If you take my trousers, I'll give you my jumper.
No, we'll hold on to everything we have and defend ourselves.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: OK, this is type of speech that got him in trouble, but specifically for recruiting people for extremist views. Authorities say
Choudary had remained just on the right side of the law until 2014, when he pledged allegiance to ISIS and its leader Abu Bakr al-Bagdadi, which led
eventually to his arrest and conviction.
[15:45:14]I'm joined now by Dal Babu, a former senior officer here with the London police. Thanks for being with us. You say this man is as dangerous
in prison as he is outside of prison.
DAL BABU, FORMER SENIOR LONDON POLICE OFFICER: Absolutely. It's taken two decades, because he's a trained lawyer, he trained as a lawyer, he knew
what side of the law he needs to stay on. And there was an incident in 2014 which showed he had gone beyond that. I think it was a mistake, a
calculated mistake by him.
GORANI: Do you think he did it purposely?
BABU: No, I think he was trying to avoid going to prison, but it was a mistake on his part. He was a vile, vicious, unpleasant individual, and I
think it's absolutely right that he's going to prison.
GORANI: One of the big issues with some of these extremist groups is that they're able to recruit and radicalize inside prisons. Some guys go in,
they are petty criminals and they come out hardened radical extremists. This man will be in prison. What could he do there?
BABU: Well, I mean, if you look at what he does outside, he preyed on vulnerable people. He preyed on individuals who were not very able, not
very bright, and easily susceptible. I think prisons are full of people like that.
So there is an issue around how he's going to be dealt with, how he'll be managed inside a prison. The Prison Officers Association have expressed
concerns about how he will be managed, how their staff have training.
So you need to ensure the staff have the necessary training. You need to ensure that he --
GORANI: What's the necessary training, though? I mean, unless you isolate him completely, which is a very extreme form of punishment, how can you
control who he talks to and who he radicalizes?
BABU: Well, if you talk about isolating him, he's going to come out. He could have gotten ten years. He got five years, with the time he spent on
remand, he'll be out in a couple of years' time. He'll be out in the real world at some stage.
The police can monitor him and put conditions on him for the next 15 years, around his release, but ultimately he's going to be out there. So I think
the idea of isolating him totally, there's a danger.
GORANI: You're not a supporter of that?
BABU: Well, you can make him a martyr. In Britain, we've had the history of the Irish terrorists, where Catholics were put into separate prisons,
Protestants were put into separate prisons, and all it did was enhance their standing in the world.
GORANI: But we don't know exactly how he's going to be detained, right? We haven't been given details on whether or not he'll be completely
isolated or put in a wing with other known extremists or allowed to function within the general population.
BABU: Yes, we don't know. He's going to a high security prison in London. There's talk of him being in a prison within the prison. We don't know the
details. At the end of the day, if you have a robber, you have a burglar, you don't put all the robbers, isolate and say they're going to be OK when
they come out. You need to be thinking about what happens when these individuals come out.
GORANI: We need to think about the bigger picture as well because it's not just Choudary, it's others in prisons who radicalize others. I was
speaking with an imam who worked in a prison before.
One of the things he told me that I found fascinating was what people don't realize is that these guys in prisons are the cool guys. They are the
gangs, you want to belong because they protect you and give you legitimacy and street cred.
This is a big problem, isn't it? To be able to take away, strip that away from some of these --
BABU: Absolutely. In prison you have vulnerable people. You have people who aren't particularly bright. The average reading age of a prisoner is
10 years old. These people are unfortunately not very able. He will be a big figure.
He's educated, an individual with a degree, he's got a law degree. He'll be going through all the prison regulations, making sure that he gets all
his rights. That's a danger. There is a bigger danger as well, he was one of the top radicalizers for individuals.
He is the last one to be put in prison. There is an issue around people will be radicalized on the internet. Things like Twitter, things like
Facebook, are much more dangerous because they can radicalize and groom individuals in the bedroom, bypassing all the authorities.
GORANI: It's easy to be helpless, right, if you say, well, now all you need is an internet connection.
BABU: Well, sadly that's where --
GORANI: So what do you do?
BABU: We need to put more pressure on Twitter.
GORANI: Because you've been critical of the U.K.'s anti-radicalization program in the past.
BABU: It hasn't worked. If you look at the fact over 800 people have gone to Syria from Britain, if you look at the fact that Anjem Choudary was out
for two decades. That prevent strategy has not worked.
We need to be very robust with individuals that are causing these difficulties. They need to be dealt with. We need to be very firm. But
we also need to put pressure on the big internet companies, so Twitter so what is twitter doing? What is Facebook doing?
GORANI: They've closed a lot of these accounts.
[05:30:00]BABU: They have. But I think the problem with Twitter and Facebook is they still allow these individuals. That's where the
radicalization is taking place. It's almost easier monitoring around Anjem Choudary and his cronies, they're doing it via the internet straight into
GORANI: It's hard to be looking over everyone's shoulder that way, and certainly in a free society, very different choices. Thanks very much, Dal
Babu, former senior officer here with the London police for joining us on this story.
New just into CNN, we are learning that Bill Cosby's trial will begin next year, on June 5th. The actor is accused of three counts of felony and
aggravated indecent assault dating back to 2004. He's pleaded not guilty to all charges. So June of next year.
Coming up, a tale of being marked forever by a trip to the holy land. We meet the businessmen giving pilgrims to Jerusalem some very special old
school souvenirs. We'll be right back.
GORANI: Pilgrims travel to the holy land in search of many things. Some leave with a permanent souvenir to remember their journey. For centuries
one family has given tattoos to visitors in Jerusalem's old city.
CNN's Ian Lee has the story of a business that's been making its mark for centuries, literally.
IAN LEE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Andrew Seropian (ph) got his first tattoo when he joined the U.S. Army, but this Armenian Cross means
the most for the veteran of Afghanistan.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was 7 centimeters from a rocket that blew up, no protection on. I took the full blast. I believe I could have been dead or
missing an arm. I do believe I was protected and blessed by God.
LEE: Seropean ike pilgrims before him, he made one last stop before leaving the holy land. For 700 years, pilgrims sought out the Razzouk
ANTON RAZZOUK, TATTOO ARTIST: My ancestors started the tradition of the tattoo. Of course electricity wasn't available, it was done by hand.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Christian tattooing has always been used as a certificate of pilgrimage. The only way for people to approve and get a
sort of a stamp that will last forever, that they've done the pilgrimage, is by actually getting tattooed.
LEE: The tattooing technique originated in Egypt and evolved over the centuries, but the designs last through the ages.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are not only old school. We can say we are ancient school. We have designs hundreds of years old.
LEE: Wassim Razzouk shows me one such design, carved from wood blocks.
WASSIM RAZZOUK, TATTOO ARTIST: For example, this one is about 500 years old. This actual block specifically was used in 1669 to tattoo a pilgrim
that has documented his pilgrimage.
LEE: Pilgrims travel to the holy land in search of something. It could be adventure, inner peace, or God.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This was a really emotional journey for me, to renew my faith. This for me has become an external version of what I'm feeling
inside. I feel that I have renewed a new-found faith that I feel is more permanent.
[15:55:12]LEE: The holy ink almost dried up. Wassim initially had no interest in the family business.
RAZZOUK: This is not a heritage that's easy to let go of. I'm not going to be the one to stop it or kill it.
LEE: The mark of faith is secured for the next generation as future pilgrims will seek out Wassim's son. Ian Lee, CNN, in Jerusalem's old
GORANI: It's not often that a football game away in Finland is an historic event, but that's what happened Monday night as Kosovo played in their
first World Cup qualifier. They were only granted FIFA membership in May amid fierce opposition from Serbia.
And they didn't do badly with the game ending in a 1-1 draw. What makes it more remarkable is several players didn't even know they would be allowed
to play until a few hours before the game because they had played for other countries. FIFA usually doesn't let that happen but for Kosovo they made
The Paralympic games kick off Wednesday and ahead of the opening ceremony, the torch is making its way through the host city, Rio de Janeiro. More
than 500 medals are on offer in more than 20 events.
Interest has been sluggish, though, unfortunately. Slow ticket sales meant budget cuts to the events. Britain's Prince Harry is making a personal
donation to buy tickets for local children to fill in the seats.
The problem with the Olympic Games is that we understood that many of the tickets were sold, but that some people just didn't show up. So the reason
for that was unclear.
All right. After the break you'll be able to get more on those poll numbers that came in, in a CNN/ORC poll, giving Donald Trump an edge
nationally ahead of Hillary Clinton, two percentage points more.
My colleague, Richard Quest, will be analyzing all of that for you and the latest financial and business news headlines as well. So do tune in for
I'm Hala Gorani. I'll see you at the same place, same time tomorrow here on CNN. Check us out on Twitter and Facebook. Quick break. "QUEST MEANS
BUSINESS" is up after this.