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Presidential Race; Matt Lauer's Moderating; Trump on Putin; Powell and Clinton E-mails; Donald Trump Speech. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired September 08, 2016 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[14:00:00] WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: He supported the war. But we'll - we'll - we have to leave it on that note. As usual, Senator Rand Paul, thanks for joining us.

SEN. RAND PAUL (R), KENTUCKY: Thank you.

BLITZER: The news continues next right here on CNN.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, everyone. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thank you for being with me.

In a bit of a waiting game right now as Donald Trump is set to take the podium in an ever important battleground state of Ohio. Yes, he is back in Cleveland. And if you are keeping score with us, 61 days until the presidential election. He is scheduled to start any moment, so we're watching and waiting for him. He's hosting this roundtable with teachers and administrators right now. Obviously the key theme here, education. But the big question is this, how will Trump hit back after his rival, Hillary Clinton, came out swinging today.

Minutes ago she pulled no punches at a campaign event in another battleground state, that being North Carolina. A new poll there now shows she is in a statistical dead heat - look at those numbers - with Donald Trump. Now Clinton, today, slammed Trump's performance at that commander-in-chief forum last evening, especially his praise of Russian President Vladimir Putin.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: It's hard to forget what Trump did last night. It was a test and he failed it. He trash-talked about America's generals, saying that they've been, quote, "reduced to rubble." Even I was shocked by this, and I didn't know much could shock me coming out of his mouth anymore.

He praised Russia's strongman, Vladimir Putin. Even taking the astonishing step of suggesting he prefers the Russian president to our American president. That is not just unpatriotic, it's not just insulting to the office and the man who holds the office, it is scary! It is dangerous!

It actually suggests he will let Putin do what Putin wants, and even make excuses for him. What would Ronald Reagan say?

This is a time to put country over party. I would be saying that even if I were not running against him. We have never been threatened as much by a single candidate running for president as we have been in this election.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Let me turn now to our CNN senior Washington correspondent, Jeff Zeleny, who was there and asked Secretary Clinton one of those key questions today.

First to you. Your reaction to her meeting reporter types such as yourself, not actually even in the middle of the plane, but, you know, there she was, podium, bona fide news conference.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: It was, again, Brooke, the third time this week. And, clearly, it is a different moment of the campaign. Hillary Clinton wanting to really respond and rebut everything Donald Trump says, particularly this week on the moment of national security. The issue of national security. It is front and center in this race. It is a key question of judgment between the two candidates here.

And Hillary Clinton went first in the forum last night because they flipped a coin. So it's one of the reasons she held a news conference in New York before flying here to North Carolina and really reemphasizing some of those things. But those words about Vladimir Putin, so strong, Brooke. Clearly getting a sense of patriotism over political party here, once again invoking a Republican Ronald Reagan, really trying to get at the hearts and minds of some Republicans who may be skeptical or still questioning Donald Trump.

BALDWIN: We'll revisit the - what he said about Putin with my panel in a second. But I want to hone in on your question, your excellent question to her, you know, saying at the forum before a crowd of active duty veterans that she would not send ground forces into Syria or Iraq. Here she was last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ZELENY: You said unequivocally last night that you would not put troops into Iraq ever again. Isn't, A, that ignoring some ground forces who are there, and, B, boxing yourself in should your military commanders, if elected, advise that you, in fact, need to do that?

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Well, Jeff, first of all, I've said that before. I've said it on numerous occasions. I believe it. I think putting a big contingent of American ground troops on the ground in Iraq and Syria would not be in the best interests of the fight against ISIS and other terrorist groups. In fact, I think it would fulfill one of their dearest wishes, which is to drag the United States back into a ground war in that region.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So there she was earlier today as you were asking her to respond to what she said last night. You know, did you - how did you perceive the answer and do you think she was walking back on her position at all? Did she give herself wiggle room, Jeff?

[14:05:07] ZELENY: I think she gave herself a bit of wiggle room, Brooke. I'm not sure walking back as much as expanding on what she said last night. Look, but I was struck by three words she said in her answer there. Not a big contingent of ground troops. Yes, there are special forces already on the ground there and she certainly did not rule those out, but talked more about air power and other things there. So I think her answer last night was a bit of a - of shorthand. I think today she was expounding on that a bit.

I might - every time she talks about the Iraq War and Iraq policy right now, Brooke, I still think that she's stung a bit by her - what she views now as a misguided decision all those years ago to vote for the invasion in Iraq. That always hangs over every kind of Iraq answer she makes. But it's also part of her experience. And that is - is what she is arguing Donald Trump simply does not have. She talks so much about how she was on the armed services committee in the Situation Room for the capture and killing of Osama bin Laden. All of that is to draw distinctions between what Donald Trump was doing at the time.

Brooke.

BALDWIN: She is asked about that as well. Jeff Zeleny, thank you so much. Again, great question.

Meantime, journalists, pundits, social media, a lot of folks today ripping NBC "Today" show host Matt Lauer over how he moderated that Clinton/Trump commander-in-chief forum. And so now CNN is actually learning what's being said behind the scenes today at NBC.

So, let's go straight to Brian Stelter, our senior media correspondent and host of "Reliable Sources," who is in the know.

Brian Stelter, what are they saying?

BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Yes, there's a lot of frustration behind the scenes at NBC, just as there was on social media during this forum. You know, partly it's the candidates' faults. You know, if they had been willing to sit there for hours and hours and hours, Lauer could have asked more questions. But it does seem like there was a lack of preparation and a lack of follow-ups from Lauer and his producers last night. I would say the biggest frustration, the biggest critique over all we've seen all over the place from TV critics today is about the lack of follow-up and the lack of fact checking, specifically when Trump said that he was opposed to the Iraq War at the start of the invasion in 2003. As Clinton and others have pointed out correctly, Trump never publicly said he was opposed to the war before it began. He started sayings that after the invasion happened when it became increasingly popular to say you were against the war. So that's one example of the criticism.

BALDWIN: Yes. We'll have a bigger chat about that later, but we wanted to hear directly from you as you have heard directly from NBC. It's a tough job but he is definitely under fire today.

Brian, thank you.

STELTER: Definitely.

BALDWIN: One politician got a lot of praise from Donald Trump at that forum. That being, as we just mentioned a second ago, Russian President Vladimir Putin. Trump said Putin was a stronger leader than the president of the United States. And then hours later, on a visit to Laos, President Obama, he hit back.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: If he says great things about me, I'm going to say great things about him. I've already said he is really very much of a leader. I mean you can say, oh, isn't that a terrible thing he called him. I mean the man has very strong control over a country. Now it's a very different system and I don't happen to like that system, but certainly in that system he's been a leader, far more than our president has been a leader.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I don't think the guy's qualified to be president of the United States. And every time he speaks, that opinion is confirmed. And I think the most important thing for the public and the press is to just listen to what he says and follow up and ask questions about what appear to be either contradictory or uninformed or outright wacky ideas.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Let me bring in CNN political commentator Van Jones, who supports Hillary Clinton, Navy SEAL - former Navy SEAL and Trump supporter Carl Higbie is with us, Democratic strategist Chris Kofinis is here, and former lieutenant governor of New York, Betsy McCaughey, who also supports Donald Trump.

So, welcome to all of you.

And, lieutenant governor, let me just begin with you. I mean on - beginning with Russia, let me just - just pointing a few things out, the facts about Russia. Russia's not an ally of the United States. They lock up reporters. They don't treat the gay community very well. Do you think that is a smart idea of Trump to say what he did?

BETSY MCCAUGHEY, TRUMP SUPPORTER: Well, Trump actually made it very clear that he disagreed with the Russian system of government. It does not share our values. We believe in an open, free society. He was simply paying tribute to Putin's strength of leadership. Something that Obama definitely lacks.

BALDWIN: Who oversees that entire society?

MCCAUGHEY: Let me - let me point out what I thought was the most shocking moment last night, which was when Mrs. Clinton addressed a member of the audience and said that she took quite seriously -- that's her quote -

BALDWIN: Betsy - MCCAUGHEY: For texting (ph) confidential information.

BALDWIN: The question was on Trump. I promise we'll get to Hillary Clinton fair and square in just a moment.

MCCAUGHEY: Yes.

[14:10:00] BALDWIN: But on Putin, on Trump, was there anything wrong with what Mr. Trump said?

MCCAUGHEY: Not about Putin. After all, remember that it was Mrs. Clinton who cloyingly, fawningly tried to present Vladimir Putin with a red reset button and she was sent home with her tail between her legs.

BALDWIN: Ah, forgive me, Betsy, somebody - forgive me. Somebody's queued into my ear so I can't actually hear you. Control room, can somebody hop out? Thank you. Sorry, Betsy, continue.

MCCAUGHEY: Yes. So, Mrs. Clinton is the one who cloyingly and fawningly tried to present Vladimir Putin with a red reset button and failed. Trump just very cleverly avoided insulting Vladimir Putin because when he becomes president, Donald Trump will have to negotiate with Vladimir Putin.

VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: But he insults every other person on earth. He insults - he insults his fellow Republicans. He insults Paul Ryan. He insults Hillary Clinton. He insults every American. He insults the president of his own country, but then he praises this other dictator who's a horrible man, who is -

MCCAUGHEY: He made it clear he did not agree with the Russian system.

JONES: Why is that smart? Why is it smart?

BALDWIN: But he was pointing out his approval numbers.

JONES: Why is it smart for him to insult Americans, to insult our generals, our political leaders, and praise Putin? It's completely ridiculous. It's unacceptable. This man is showing himself to be completely -

MCCAUGHEY: Too many heads of state this week are throwing around reckless insults. The head of the Philippines.

JONES: Well - well -

MCCAUGHEY: The president of Mexico. I think it's good to avoid that.

JONES: Well, tell Trump that.

MCCAUGHEY: And if Donald Trump has said insulting things to Vladimir Putin, Hillary Clinton would have been all over him today suggesting he doesn't have the temperament to be president.

JONES: Why is there an exception? You are - you are a leader in New York. Why are you creating an exception? The only human on earth - there's 7 billion people Donald Trump insults and you've defended the one human - the one human being -

MCCAUGHEY: I haven't created an exception. I don't think it's good to hurl insults at anyone.

BALDWIN: Let -

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I would also note -

(CROSS TALK)

BALDWIN: Let me - let me - let me jump in. Hang on, hang on, because Carl - Carl, I want to hear from you, as a former Navy SEAL, as the veteran on the panel here, on the point about the generals. And let me just play this for folks who missed it. You know, at the forum last night, Trump essentially said, you know, we would consult with our military generals on a plan to ultimately defeat and destroy ISIS, but then he said this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I think under the leadership of Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton, the generals have been reduced to rubble. They have been reduced to a point where it's embarrassing for our country. You have a force of 30,000, or so, people. Nobody really knows. But probably 30,000 people. And I can just see the great, as an example, General George Patton spinning in his grave.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: All right, Carl, reduced to rubble. I mean I know Hillary Clinton says he was trash talking the generals. As a veteran, how do you interpret that?

CARL HIGBIE, TRUMP SUPPORTER: I interpret it very clearly. Our general corps has been reduced to rubble. Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton have gotten rid of or pushed aside every general that tells them the way it is. And you look at what Trump said after his new intelligence briefing had. He said the fact of the matter is, Barack Obama's not listening to the generals. So the only good generals we had he pushed out and the ones that are left are just hiding there long enough trying not to get fired, trying to maintain some sense of discipline within the military without ruffling the feathers at the top. We can't allow this. We have to listen to our generals, just like he said he would in his first 30 days.

BALDWIN: Chris, do you agree?

MCCAUGHEY: And let me just point out -

BALDWIN: Chris, you agree?

MCCAUGHEY: That he -

CHRIS KOFINIS, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Do I agree? BALDWIN: Yes.

KOFINIS: I mean, please. I mean I - between listening to the Trump surrogates and listening to Trump last night, it's like living in an alternative universe. I mean the notion that somehow the greatest military that's ever existed has been reduced to rubble is just comical. But the part that I would say is the most frustrating, there is no more important job for the president of the United States than commander in chief. And to listen to Donald Trump, who has literally no knowledge or policy background or specifics on any issue, nothing! There is no details there! And the part that I would say has been frustrating to watch those interviews with him is, when is someone going to follow up when he says, we'll keep the oil. Well, how are you going to keep the oil?

BALDWIN: Well, let me actually follow up on Hillary Clinton and let me just stay with you, Chris, because, you know, we were just talking to Jeff Zeleny about how she essentially said - what she said about ground troops both in Iraq and Syria, and, you know, that she would never do that if she were elected. And, you know, P.S., we do have ground troops in Iraq. And the question that Zeleny so eloquently sort of asked is, wouldn't she then be boxing herself in, you know, by saying never if there are ultimately generals who advise her otherwise.

KOFINIS: Well, I mean, listen, I think she's made it very clear that the conditions under which she would put ground troops there are probably so high it's not realistic. I mean, listen, the American people aren't going to support it. I cannot imagine a situation where we're going to go back in. So I think it's - you know, it's fine for her to make that argument. We're going to have special forces in that region. That's not going to change. We're going to have a certain contingent there. That's not going to change. But the idea that we're going to reengage and pour in another 10,000, 20,000, 40,000, 50,000 troops, that's just not a realistic strategy. No one with any foreign policy background is going to support such a position.

HIGBIE: Why?

MCCAUGHEY: It's very foolish - and both Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton have done it - of telling the world what they would do in a military situation. MacArthur didn't say when he was going to reenter the Philippines and Eisenhower didn't announce when he was going to invade Normandy Beach.

[14:15:08] KOFINIS: This isn't - this isn't the Second World War.

MCCAUGHEY: It's stupid to do it.

KOFINIS: Yes, this isn't - this is not - this is not the Second World War. I know -

MCCAUGHEY: We are in a war. We are in a worldwide war.

KOFINIS: I know (INAUDIBLE) -

(CROSS TALK)

BALDWIN: Betsy, Betsy, Betsy - Betsy, but, you know, Trump - Trump - hang on, hang on.

KOFINIS: I know history is hard, but it's not the same thing.

BALDWIN: Trump - Trump has said for 16 months that he has had this secret plan to defeat and destroy ISIS. Does he have that?

KOFINIS: It's a secret.

HIGBIE: Trump has had a goal -

KOFINIS: It's a secret.

HIGBIE: And he's going to rely - yes -

KOFINIS: That's right.

HIGBIE: No, he's had a goal and he's going to rely on the generals, as he did. He learned from that first intelligence briefing he got that it's time to go out there. Hillary Clinton has been on the wrong side of every foreign conflict she's engaged in. So why should - why should we have any faith in her that she's going to do anything different? When you say you're going to keep special forces there, you know what it takes to keep special forces there? We deploy at a one to ten ratio, one special force for 10 support guys, because that's what it requires to complete our mission. So when you say, oh, we'll just leave some special forces guys, you're leaving guys like me out there. And if we don't have the proper support, we die.

BALDWIN: I realize you would know that - you would know that personally, Carl, and that's significant.

But, Van, I want you to respond to Carl saying that Hillary Clinton has been on the wrong side of every conflict.

JONES: Well, it's just - it's just not true.

But I want to go back to something else that they're talking about.

BALDWIN: Yes.

JONES: This idea that Donald Trump has some secret plan that he's going to somehow be able to fight ISIS and defeat ISIS and it - the problem that you have with that, first of all, is that it does not take seriously what our military is doing right now. It disrespects the fact that the military has rolled ISIS back by almost 50 percent, has liquidated the top one-third of their leadership and it's still ongoing. There is an ongoing fight right now, to your point, sir, and there is no respect from the Trump campaign for the fight that's being led right now by our president. You praised Putin and your insult our president that's taking the fight to ISIS every day and you do have special forces on the ground right now, sir, who are risking their lives and being disrespected by this - by this campaign. And I wish that we could just say that we - HIGBIE: No, they're not.

JONES: Oh, my God. I mean when has he said one kind word about the people risking their lives right now fighting ISIS under this president?

HIGBIE: I haven't talked to one SEAL friend of mine that's been over there recently that's been fighting ISIS that's offended by Donald Trump and his - his recent lyrics.

MCCAUGHEY: In fact, we can - Donald Trump is 20 points ahead in the polls -

BALDWIN: But let me hit pause - let me hit pause on Carl's note - on Carl's note. Hang on, hang on, Betsy, because I do want to hear more from you. Let me ask all of you to stick around. There is so much more to get through. Again, we're waiting to hear from Donald Trump. We're going to take him live.

But also Trump revealing what shock him from the classified briefings he's been getting. Hillary Clinton has responded to that. We'll discuss.

Also, did you hear what Gary Johnson said this morning? Gary Johnson, as in the presidential nominee here, libertarian nominee, may get the award for the biggest gaffe of the election thus far. What he said when asked what he would do about the crisis in Aleppo. As in, in Syria. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:21:57] BALDWIN: And we're back. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Former Secretary of State Colin Powell is trying to explain why he gave Hillary Clinton a little advice on private e-mail use. Just days after Clinton was sworn in as secretary of state, Powell said in a statement, quote, "I was not trying to influence her, but just to explain what I had done eight years earlier to begin the transformation of the State Department's information system." It goes on, "I was not aware at the time of any requirement for private unclassified exchanges to be treated as official records."

So there's that. And then you also now have Secretary Clinton trying to explain her use of the private e-mail server. This is what she said at that forum last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I have said repeatedly, it was a mistake to have a personal account. I would certainly not do it again. I make no excuses for it. Classified material has a header which says "top secret," "secret," "confidential." None of the e-mails sent or received by me had such a header.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BALDWIN: Let's go straight to our justice correspondent, Evan Perez.

What - the e-mails between Secretary Clinton and Secretary Powell, what do they show?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, first of all, this is an e-mail that goes, as you mentioned, back in 2009 after Secretary Clinton just took office and she's asking for advice from Colin Powell as to how he dealt with officials records and how he was able to hang on to - you know, she was looking to hang on to her Blackberry. If you remember, at this time, President Obama had to get a special one made by the NSA so that he could use a Blackberry in office. And that's kind of what she's trying to get out.

So she asked Colin Powell for some advice. He responds. We have a little piece of his response there. He says basically, if you use a Blackberry, there's a real danger that it becomes a public record. And he goes on to say that he took measures to try to make sure that, you know, any e-mails he had, any conversations he had with people outside the State Department, that that didn't become public record. At the bottom of the e-mail it says, you know, I got around it all by not making - by not saying much and not using systems that captured the data. He basically set up, Brooke, a private computer that was set up with a phone line so that he could communicate with people outside the State Department.

The issue here, obviously, is that 2005, when Colin Powell leaves office, and 2009, when Hillary Clinton takes office at the State Department, there's a gulf of difference about practices, about the e- mail systems at the State Department and about the safety of using a private server, which is what Hillary Clinton set up once she got around to it.

BALDWIN: Evan Perez, thank you.

I want to stay on this and stay on the e-mails, bring my panel back.

And, Van Jones, you, sir, let me ask you, you know, she has had 16 months to - you know, dealing with how to answer the constant questions as new information, notes, you know, have been revealed. And, you know, you talk to critics and they say, she's still struggling with it.

[14:25:02] JONES: She is. And here's the deal. I don't think Democrats have to get out here and try to play defense on this. This was a self- inflicted wound on her part. It showed bad judgment on her part according to the FBI. She has apologized for it and I don't think you can say much more about it.

I worked in the White House. I know the stuff that she did you're not supposed to do. So Democrats, I don't think, have to get out here and try and defend all that stuff. I think what we have to do is put it in some kind of a context. That was dumb, wrong and she shouldn't have done it.

BALDWIN: Oh, forgive me, Donald Trump just started speaking. Let's listen.

JONES: Speaking of dumb - speaking of dumb and wrong -

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Debora Maze (ph), who has really done an incredible job. Debora, thank you. Thank you, what a great job, for hosting us at this beautiful school.

Today we're going to discuss one of the most important issues in this campaign - school choice. But before we do, I want to briefly discuss new revelations about Hillary Clinton's very famous e-mails.

According to the FBI report, the FBI did not find that hostile foreign actors - and we're - think of this, it's so important, when they went around, they went around and were so vigilant at least as far as this, but they found that hostile foreign actors gained access to the personal e-mail accounts of individuals with whom Clinton was in regular contact. And in doing so, obtained e-mails sent to or received by Clinton on her personal account.

And every time she talks about the subject, it's different. She's got to get her act together. Remember, Hillary Clinton was e-mailing about the drone program, among many other extremely sensitive matters.

This is yet more evidence that Clinton is unfit to be your commander in chief. By the way, the whole country saw how unfit she was at the town hall last night where she refused to take accountability for her failed policies in the Middle East that have produced millions of refugees, unleashed horror of radical Islamic terrorism all over and made us less safe than ever before.

Throughout it all, she put the country - and I mean the entire country - at risk in order to cover up her pay-for-play scandals as secretary of state. These include scandals giving up uranium to Russia, doing favors for UBS Bank, and selling contracts to friends and family in Haiti. It's all about hiding criminal enterprise and that's what it's about.

As part of her criminal cover-up, Hillary's - and you know her staff. You know it well. You read about it all the time. You just read about it. And it's getting worse and worse. Hillary Clinton's staff deleted and digitally bleached - which is acid cleaned - her e-mails after receiving a congressional subpoena. That's after receiving, not before. That's after receiving. She gets a subpoena from the United States Congress and she deletes and bleaches.

She also, and her staff, destroyed some of her 13 different phones, but this time with a hammer. I've never done that. Then when she was interviewed by the FBI, she claimed she couldn't remember important events 39 times. She couldn't even remember whether she was trained or handling classified information. Didn't remember anything about it. So she really didn't remember. That's a problem. And if she did remember, that's a problem.

She even said she didn't know what the letter "c" stood for, whether it was confidential, classified information, or something. All the while, as Hillary and Bill raked in millions of dollars from special interests, the world was falling apart. Hillary Clinton's policies produced ruin in Libya, Iraq and Syria. Absolute ruin and death. She failed in Russia. She failed in China. She failed miserably in North Korea. Her policies unleashed ISIS, spread terrorism and put Iran on a path to nuclear weapons, not to mention the ransom payments.

[14:30:04] Oh, those ransom payments. Remember two weeks ago it was $400 million in cash. Well, yesterday we found out that