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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

House Votes to Let 9/11 Victims Sue Saudi Arabia; Clinton National Security Panel; North Korean Nuclear Test; Birther Issue. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired September 09, 2016 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00] KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: And it's likely to face some backlash - some serious backlash coming from the White House.

Let's get over to CNN's senior political reporter, Manu Raju. He has much more on that.

Manu, what are you learning.

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: Well, this bill actually would allow those 9/11 plaintiffs the right to sue Saudi Arabia. And it has come under stiff opposition from the White House. It was concerned that it could lead to a wrath of lawsuits against Americans overseas and strain relations with Saudi Arabia. But that fell on deaf ears in Congress. It passed by voice vote in the House, also earlier by voice vote by the Senate, and it will override a presidential veto. A big, big rebuke to the White House.

Kate and John.

BOLDUAN: Not the last we've heard of this.

Manu, great to see you. Thank you so much.

That's it for us AT THIS HOUR.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: "Legal View" with Ashleigh Banfield start right now.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Ashleigh Banfield. This is LEGAL VIEW.

And we're going to start with some live, breaking news. You may have seen this, but from the steps of the U.S. Capitol in the streets of Manhattan, Americans are marking today in many different ways. The 15th anniversary of the horrors of 9/11. Quite an image from the steps of the Capitol. This is a solemn moment and a painful observance. But this year it is also more fearful than in the not too distant past as well.

What you're seeing now, some pictures from earlier this morning. Members of Capitol Hill coming out onto the steps of the Capitol to sing "American the Beautiful." This was a tradition that dates back to September 12th. It might have happened on September 11th, but for the fact that everyone was evacuated on that day. And on September the 12th, the singing on the steps of the Capitol began. Here we are 15 years later.

And, on this auspicious anniversary, a brand new CNN poll is finding that half of Americans believe that another attack is likely in the days surrounding the 9/11 anniversary. Another 48 percent don't believe that. But what's significant is if you look at the numbers next to it, the 2011 numbers. Just five years ago, it was only 39 percent that thought an anniversary attack might be likely. That is an 11-point difference. Eleven points for those that think that it is more dangerous and that they are more fearful now.

This year, of course, it is a presidential election year. There's a lot of rhetoric out there. Hillary Clinton is spending part of this day in what's being called a working session with a bipartisan panel of foreign policy and national security experts right here in New York. The agenda is conquering terrorism in general, ISIS in particular.

And my CNN colleague Jeff Zeleny joins me with more. He's covering the campaign today.

So the specifics of who Secretary Clinton is meeting with, because names matter, images matter, optics matter.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: And it is about all of the above, obviously. But this list is - really includes a lot of Republicans. It is a bipartisan meeting by design. At this point of the campaign, Hillary Clinton wants to make the case to Republicans that she actually can work with everybody. But if you take a look at the list of some of these names, the one that popped out to me first when they announced it yesterday was David Petraeus.

BANFIELD: Oh, you think?

ZELENY: The architect of the 2007 surge in Iraq.

BANFIELD: It's the one that popped out loudest and boldest to me too.

ZELENY: And, of course, has been in the news since then.

BANFIELD: Right.

ZELENY: But that is why he is - is picked for this. A former Bush administration Homeland Security secretary, Michael Chertoff. He is on this list. A long list of military officials and others, CIA officials and others. But, interesting, and Janet Napolitano, she's a Democratic former Homeland Security secretary. So it is a bipartisan mix here.

But Hillary Clinton trying to make the case that she's different than Donald Trump, that she's listening to all sides of this issue here. And it should be noted, some of these people have not endorsed her, they're not supporting her, they're just offering their advice to either side. And David Petraeus is on that list.

BANFIELD: Right. ZELENY: He's not endorsed Hillary Clinton.

BANFIELD: No. And I think it's significant, you know, he - he had been talked about as a potential Republican candidate once upon a time before the CIA debacle and the - the issue that brought him down with his paramour.

So the significance of David Petraeus doesn't go unnoticed, especially since he has been very bipartisan and hasn't said a word about either candidate.

ZELENY: He has not weighed in on this election at all. So this -

BANFIELD: Not for lack of trying.

ZELENY: Right. And this meeting will be happening in New York this afternoon. Secretary Clinton is sort of squeezing this in between fundraisers, as all candidates do. But it is significant the timing of this. I mean, as you said earlier, 15 years since 9/11 on Sunday, on the anniversary, we're told now that she will be at Ground Zero attending not in a political capacity but will be at the ceremony here. But she is clearly trying to draw the argument here that she is the better commander in chief. This whole week of the campaign has been an audition to be commander in chief.

BANFIELD: For both of them.

ZELENY: We've seen conversations about Vladimir Putin and others and that's what this meeting is about today.

BANFIELD: And just before I talk to my panel, I also just want to make mention of what's happened in the last five years.

ZELENY: Right.

BANFIELD: Because there is, of course, the election rhetoric and then there's, of course, these statistics. Starting in April, 2013, the Boston Marathon bombing. In November, 2009, and April, 2014, Fort Hood. San Bernardino, December, 2015. Pulse rampage, June, 2016. So there are plenty of reasons for people perhaps to be fearful of another terror attack. And then, of course, all of the extra conversation.

[12:05:14] Jeff Zeleny, thank you.

Hillary Clinton might have her panel convening today and I've got my panel as well.

Joining me to talk about national security, through the prism of presidential politics, CNN military analyst and retired Air Force Lieutenant Colonel Rick Francona, former CIA covert operations officer Mike Baker, and our own executive editor of CNN Politics, Mark Preston.

I want to begin with the fact, folks, that it is 60 days now until Election Day. And we have something today to really chew on. Something, I would say, everyone would consider somewhat frightening.

Colonel Francona, I'm going to begin with you and it's North Korea pushing the button on say the fifth now serious test of their nuclear weapons capacities and capabilities. This has to be front and center in Hillary Clinton's meeting today and I can only imagine that the Trump campaign is figuring out how to cope with handling these questions as well.

LT. COL. RICK FRANCONA, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Yes, North Korea is a real interesting case. You were watching parallel developments in their military technology and their nuclear technology. And at some point they're going to converge. What they're trying to do is weaponize something that they can carry on a missile to greater distance. And you - that - that involves a series of technologies and they're working on all of them at the same time and they seem to be doing this unabated with no regard for international pressure. The only people that really seem to have any pull with them are the Chinese. They don't seem to be stopping that program at all.

BANFIELD: Mike Baker, if I could bring you in to something that developed and it might be considered old news but for the fact that now we do have North Korea and my guess is that that might have factored into the intelligence meeting that Donald Trump received the other day and spoke publicly about during that very public NBC forum the other night. He talked about body language of his briefers. These are trained CIA career officers who, if you ask any of them will tell you it is their sworn duty not to do such a thing. I want to play for you what Donald Trump said about his briefers and how they behaved in the briefing meeting. Have a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MATT LAUER, MODERATOR: Did you learn anything in that briefing, again not going into specifics, that makes you reconsider some of the things you say you can accomplish, like defeating ISIS quickly?

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: No, I didn't learn anything from that standpoint. What I did learn is that our leadership, Barack Obama, did not follow what our experts and our truly - when they call it intelligence, it's there for a reason - what our experts said to do.

LAUER: How (ph)?

TRUMP: And I was very, very surprised. In almost every instance. And I could tell. I am pretty good with the body language. I could tell they were not happy our leaders did not follow what they were recommending.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: OK. Mike, one of two things happened there. Number one, Donald Trump either lied and that did not happen or, number two, some CIA officers broke every single rule in the book and did exactly what they are never supposed to and say they never have done in the past and gone against all protocol and tipped their hand. Which do you think it was? MIKE BAKER, FORMER CIA COVERT OPERATIONS OFFICER: Well, I think the

third option is that he - that's his perception. That's how he processes things. And - because he wants to be so, he states that. So, you know, I'm not going to go with number one and say -

BANFIELD: Mike Baker, I do not perceive that you are smiling at me right now. Perception is one thing when it's questionable. But like I said coming into this, you're CIA, these are officers who are trained in body language not to give signals or to try to give signals.

BAKER: Right.

BANFIELD: And every single officer who's been asked about these briefings, the people who have done them, they say they 100 percent do heads-down give information and leave.

BAKER: Right. No, look, I spent almost 20 years, almost two decades, in operations. You don't need to tell me how things work inside the CIA. My point being is that I'm not - I'm not going on the record saying somebody lied, whether it's Trump, whether it's Clinton. I don't care. I don't have a dog in the hunt. What I'm saying is that the other option is not on the table, OK? So they did not - the agency is not a political organization and we should be very happy about that point. It is an apolitical organization despite how feature films and TV shows sometimes portray it. So these individuals who go in, and whether they're doing the president's daily brief, whether they're talking to presidential candidates, whether they're going up on The Hill for a briefing, they do not indicate their political leanings. They're humans. They may have political points of view, of course. Do they demonstrate that, do they show that, do they influence their briefings for that? Absolutely not. So what I'm - what I'm saying is that however he came out of that, and for whatever reason he made that statement, that's his perception, but that's not the case.

BANFIELD: It's very disquieting to even think that this might be the first, you know, sort of readout of a meeting in history. Any presidential candidate who's had this intelligence brief before has given the platitudes about it, but never, ever described anything of this nature.

[12:10:11] Mark Preston, I want to talk a little bit about the generals. They have factored in heavily now into the conversation started, I think, by Donald Trump saying that he knows more than the generals. Well, now he is lining up the generals. He said originally this week he had 88 people who are signed on to a letter. They actually provided that letter saying that they backed Donald Trump. The Trump campaign saying that's now up to 120, I believe. Hillary Rodham Clinton has come out with 110 different generals and flag officers who are backing her campaign. So if you're going to go horse for horse, if Donald Trump's latest numbers are accurate, he's ten ahead. But Mitt Romney had 500. And Republican candidates typically have a lot more in the military backing them. Should anybody pay any attention to these numbers at all or should we actually dig down into the math?

MARK PRESTON, CNN POLITICS EXECUTIVE EDITOR: Well a couple of things. I mean we have an arms race right now on endorsements of retired flag officers, which is important. It's not so much the numbers as I think it's what these officers are saying in interviews here on CNN or other networks, what their perception is about why they are backing Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump.

Let me just give you two weaknesses right now for Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump. One each. One, there is a perception in the military right now that they're not very happy with the direction that things have been taken under the Obama administration. I mean I think that's pretty well-known, that there is some disconcertation (ph) about that. Then you have Donald Trump go out and, you know, double down in the past couple days and really he preys upon one of the biggest enemies of the United States, and that's Russia and its president, Vladimir Putin. And I think that has given a lot of concern, certainly to establishment Republicans, but also to those in the military right now. So what I think, you know, over the next couple weeks, we're going to see this play out and they're going to try to talk about their foreign policy goals and their objectives. But what I really think is going to be the flashpoint is when they're on stage at Hofstra University for the first presidential debate, for 90 minutes, no commercials, and they have to stare each other straight in the face and try to explain why their policy is better than the other.

BANFIELD: And not make big headline inducing gaffes because that can happen and does happen.

Colonel Francona, thank you. Mike Baker, thank you. Mark Preston, thank you, to all three of you.

Coming up next, the United States Geological Society detected a 5.3 magnitude earthquake this morning. Now, you've heard that before. But this one was in North Korea. As we know, it was not an earthquake. It wasn't an earthquake at all. More likely it had to do with what you're seeing on your screen, a nuclear explosion instead. North Korea and Kim Jong-un putting the world on edge once again. And what we have learned this time about this blast and how close this man is getting to do some real damage around the world.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:16:54] BANFIELD: We've got some breaking news for you right now. North Korea says that it has, in fact, hit the button on what might just be the most powerful nuclear test yet. Researchers are saying that this is pretty hard to verify the actual claim, but seismic activity, that's something else. The magnitude was 5.3 and it was detected this morning in the same location as the four tests that came before this alleged test.

President Obama, for his part, issued a statement this morning saying, and I quote, that "the U.S. condemns the test in the strongest possible terms as a grave threat to regional security and to international peace and stability." The United Nations Security Council is set to hold an emergency meeting today, 3:00 p.m. Eastern Time. And just moments ago, the secretary general, Ban Ki-moon, had this to say about condemning what happened. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BAN KI-MOON, U.N. SECRETARY-GENERAL: We are deeply concerned by continuing act of provocation by the DPRK regimes. This time, the fifth, the biggest nuclear test. And I sincere hope that the United Nations Secret Council will act in solidarity and unity for the international peace and security and give a strong warning to the DPRK authorities.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Our Will Ripley joins me live now from Tokyo.

I understand how difficult it is to do your job when it comes to North Korea. I understand we don't report necessarily for North Korea, although you have been there. But what exactly do we know about what happened in the last 24 hours?

WILL RIPLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: South Korean scientists, Ashleigh, believe that this was a 10 kiloton blast, just slightly smaller, to put it in perspective, than the nuclear bomb that the United States dropped on Hiroshima, Japan, in 1945. That bomb, while small by modern standards, it would be capable of inflicting a tremendous amount of death and damage.

And North Korea, at the same time that it's developing these nuclear weapons, is also developing missiles and is trying to miniaturize the warheads to put them on these missiles. Just last week, North Korea launched three missiles. The week before that, they launched a missile from a submarine which could be capable, really, of hitting anywhere in the Korean peninsula, where there's 50 million people, 25,000 U.S. troops. It also puts it within range of Japan, 127 million people, 50,000 U.S. troops. You get the idea.

And the break neck speed that Kim Jong-un is ordering his scientists to develop and test these weapons shows that North Korea is advancing much faster than anybody really had predicted. And so it really is, unless something is done to stop North Korea, only a matter of time before they have these small nuclear warheads that they can put on missiles, they can strike not only U.S. assets here in Asia Pacific, but eventually the mainland of the United States as well.

BANFIELD: The condemnation's also coming from South Korea, Japan and China. China being a very unique story. We're going to get into that in a moment.

But, Will Ripley, thank you for that. Keep digging and we'll touch base with you throughout the day on CNN about this developing North Korean story.

[12:19:54] Coming up next, however, more local politics. All politics are local, folks, when it's the presidential race. The Obama birther controversy. Yes, I said it, because it won't die. If Donald Trump's aides say that he believes the president was born in the United States, then why won't he just say it? And when he won't just admit that he no longer believes that, then doesn't it just keep it going? We're going to talk about that in a moment. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: Donald Trump's campaign is clarifying its position on President Obama's birth place. Clarifying by now saying that Donald Trump does believe that President Obama was, in fact, born right here in the United States. Here's how that happened.

[12:25:09] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KELLYANNE CONWAY, TRUMP CAMPAIGN MANAGER: So he believes President Obama was born here. I was born in Camden, by the way, New Jersey. He was born in Hawaii. But the - the point is, what kind of president has he been? He has - so he was born in the United States. There's no question to me he was born in the United States. But he's not been a particularly successful president. And that's what this campaign is about on our side.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want to know whether you believe that your candidate for president believes he would succeed a legitimate president or not?

RUDY GIULIANI, FORMER NEW YORK MAYOR: Yes, he believes -

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Does he believe he would succeed a legitimate president?

GIULIANI: Donald Trump believes now that he was born in the United States.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Did you hear that part, the now. Donald Trump now believes that he was born in the United States. So why is Trump's campaign and his friends having to verify that Donald Trump believes that the United States president is a legitimate United States citizen and thus legitimate president? Because for the last five years, Donald Trump himself has been questioning it and questioning it and questioning it. And, well, just have a look for yourself.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Why - look, she's smiling. Why doesn't he show his birth certificate? And, you know what, I wish he would because I think it's a terrible pail that's hanging over him.

Barack Obama should end this and he should provide the public with a birth certificate. And if he doesn't do it, he's doing a tremendous disservice to the public.

What does he - what, you know, perhaps it's going to say Hawaii. Perhaps it's going to say Kenya.

If Barack Obama opens up and gives his college records and applications, and if he gives his passport applications and records, I will give to a charity of his choice anything he wants, a check, immediately, for $5 million. BILL O'REILLY, FOX NEWS: So you think your birther position has hurt

you among African-Americans?

TRUMP: I don't know. I have no idea. I don't even talk about it anymore, Bill, because, you know, I just don't bother talking about it.

O'REILLY: No, I know. But it's there. It's on the record, you know.

TRUMP: But, I don't know.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: I don't even talk about it anymore. Just don't talk about it. I'll let the campaign and those other folks maybe talk about it.

I'm going to talk about it. Heck, I'm going to talk about it with these two people right now, CNN senior political reporter Nia-Malika Henderson, and CNN political director David Chalian.

You guys are experts at the - that crazy, pesky reporting thing.

So, Nia-Malika, the question I have for you is, is never having to say you're sorry more valuable than having this story hang out here and you and I are going to spend the next five minutes talking about the birther claims that Donald Trump continued to make over and over and over and over? You know where I'm going with this, right? Is it worth it?

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: Yes, over and over and over and over. I mean it wasn't just, you know, one instance. I mean this is how he crafted his political identity beginning in 2011 and when he was testing a run in 2012 for the Republican nomination, he saw that it gained him some ground in many ways. So I think - in some ways I don't think it ever will go away because I think people really still wonder why Donald Trump actually believed this, right? Did he believe it or was it just sort of a political ploy? And either way I think for many people it raises questions about his judgment. So even if he comes out, and he's probably unlikely to do that, comes out and says he believes that Obama was born in the United States and that the birther thing was all a mistake or he's sorry for it, I think the questions will linger because, again, it goes to, why did he begin this in the first place back in 2011?

BANFIELD: So, David, the issue then is only half resolved because some of his surrogates, his campaign manager and Giuliani and perhaps others as the days continue are cooping to it now, saying he's good with this now. He knows that he's a legitimate president. He was born in Hawaii. But it's only half resolved unless the man who started it and continued it and repeated it over and over says so himself. Is he only coming out halfway on this effectively by sending Kellyanne Conway out there to do this work for him because he doesn't want to say he's sorry, but he still wants to get those African-Americans back, you know, maybe in his column by saying, I'm - I'm good with that whole birther thing now sort of half way only by Kellyanne Conway's words. DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Well, first of all, Ashleigh, I

don't think we should presume that Donald Trump sent Kellyanne out to go make that point or sent Rudy Giuliani out -

BANFIELD: He had to have approved it, you don't think?

CHALIAN: Well, I'm not - I'm not 100 percent sure. I don't know that we know that. What - here's what I know, and this is key -

BANFIELD: Because he - I'm just going to remind you, he's fired two of his campaign directors in the last couple of months. I'm - I'm just saying that's fair (ph).

CHALIAN: Yes. No, no, no, I'm not saying he's not in control of his campaign. I'm just saying what is - you are highlighting the right thing to highlight here, which is that Donald Trump has surrogates, his campaign manager, his top confidant, Rudy Giuliani, these days out there talking about an issue that he refuses to talk about. So this is what - this is the - the divide inside the campaign that I don't fully understand because Donald Trump says, I don't talk about that any more.