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Wolf

Gary Johnson Interview; Trump on Russia. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired September 09, 2016 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, I'm Wolf Blitzer. It's 1:00 p.m. here in Washington, 8:00 p.m. in Moscow, 1:30 a.m. Saturday in Pyongyang, North Korea. Wherever you're watching from around the world, thanks very much for joining us.

There is global condemnation and outrage right now aimed at North Korea for conducting what they say is their fifth nuclear test, its largest to date so far. Seismic activity with a 5.3 magnitude was detected around 9:00 a.m. local time. South Korea's military estimates the blast had the explosive power of 10 kilotons. By comparison, the nuclear bomb dropped by the U.S. on Hiroshima during World War II was 15 kilotons.

World leaders issued rapid responses to the news. President Obama called the nuclear test a grave threat. The Japanese prime minister said it was absolutely unacceptable. The president of South Korea called Kim Jong-Un regime fanatically reckless. And the United Nations' Security Council is holding a closed-door emergency meeting on North Korea in two hours.

Our CNN International Correspondent Will Ripley is joining us from Tokyo. Our Global Affairs Correspondent Elise Labott, she's in Geneva, Switzerland. And the director of government and international affairs at Georgetown University, the Korea chair for the Center for Strategic International Studies, Victor Cha, is joining us from here in Washington.

Will, you've been to North Korea several times over the last few years, probably more than any other western journalist. The timing of this test right now, what is Pyongyang up to?

WILL RIPLEY, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Kim Jong-Un, when I was last in North Korea in May, solidified his power at the Workers Party Congress and lined up all of his leadership who were on board with his plan to develop North Korea's nuclear and missile program at a dizzying pace. And that's exactly what we've seen happening over the last several months and, really, just the last two weeks.

In addition to this nuclear test, which caused a 5.3 magnitude earthquake, still yet to be verified by the U.S. which is still testing radiation levels in the area, there were three missiles that were launched just last week from the ground capable of hitting right here in Japan where there are 50,000 U.S. troops. And the week before that, there was a submarine launch ballistic missile, a successful test, that missile capable of striking anywhere in the South Korean Peninsula where there 25,000 U.S. troops.

So, what we're seeing is North Korean leader, Kim Jong-Un, pushing forward, despite international sanctions, despite nearly universal condemnation, even from China. Throwing all of that by the wayside and aggressively growing these weapons' programs at a pace far faster than any analysts had predicted.

BLITZER: A truly disturbing development. Stand by.

Elise, you're joining us from Geneva, Switzerland where secretary of state, John Kerry, is negotiating with Russia, his Russian counterpart, on a Syrian peace deal. But what is the Obama administration trying to do about this situation?

ELISE LABOTT, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, obviously, as Will said, there's been a growing concern about North Korea's increased weapons programs and capability and its provocations. Within hours of that nuclear test, President Obama was on the phone to South Korean President Park, Japanese Prime Minister Abe, talking about what to do.

Coincidentally, the U.S. envoy to North Korea, Sun Kim, was already headed to the region to discuss North Korea's program. So, that -- those consultations will continue.

And the U.N. is calling that U.N. Security Council meeting today, Wolf. But you remember in March, the U.N. Security Council passed what the U.S. called the most biting sanctions against North Korea. North Korea's program has only worsened and increased. The behavior only worsened since then.

So, not really sure what kind of options the U.S. has at the U.N. Security Council. A lot of it will be about consultations with Japan and South Korea. President Obama's statement that you mentioned, talking about, as commander in chief, I have a responsibility to safeguard the American people and ensure the U.S. is countering against that North Korean threat. You know the U.S. has deployed the THAAD missile defense system in South Korea. That is really an important thing that the U.S. thinks can fend off against North Korean missiles.

But certainly, this latest nuclear test is very concerning to the U.S. and its allies -- Wolf.

BLITZER: It certainly is.

Victor, you're an expert on the Korean Peninsula. How concern should folks here in the United States, indeed around the world, be right now about this latest test?

VICTOR CHA, DIRECTOR, GOVERNMENT AND INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS, GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY: Well, Wolf -- Well, Wolf, I think that from a U.S. perspective, this is shaping up to be the number one national security issue for the two candidates as we head into the election. I mean, this is a threat that is a threat directly to U.S. forces in Korea and Japan as well -- as well as to the homeland. [13:05:00] And its proliferation threat, in the sense that North Korea has sold every weapon system it has ever perfected. Based on the statements that they have made thus far, it appears as though they feel quite confident they've made advances, in terms miniaturization of a warhead that they can then mass produce and put on a range of missiles. Whether it's short range, medium range or the prototype long-range ballistic missiles.

Moreover, they're demonstrating mobile launch capabilities, reentry vehicles, solid fuel propellant. All the things that are proponents of a fully advanced nuclear weapons' program. Now, they are not fully there yet. But because they are advancing these capabilities, this is a direct threat to the United States, both in terms of a direct security threat as well as a proliferation threat.

BLITZER: I want everybody to stand by. Republican Congressman Ed Royce of California is joining us right now. He's the chairman of the House Foreign Affairs Committee. Congressman, Mr. Chairman, thanks very much for joining us. I assume you have been well briefed on this latest development. A serious concern, I'm sure, across the board. What do we know right now? What is the -- what are the North Korean capabilities? What are they up to right now?

REP. ED ROYCE (R), CALIFORNIA, CHAIRMAN, HOUSE FOREIGN AFFAIRS COMMITTEE: Well, 10 kilotons is twice the capability, Wolf, that we saw on that last test in January. This is a 5.3 magnitude earthquake, basically, that resulted from this explosion. So, we know, yes, that they claim they can now miniaturize these, put them on a warhead, including on a submarine. So, that puts many allies at risk.

We also know they are serial proliferators. But we also know we have an anecdote for this if we want to use it.

BLITZER: Well, when you say serial proliferators, they provide nuclear technology, nuclear bomb capability information to other countries. Give us specifics.

ROYCE: Nuclear and missile. So, we know they've traded information with Pakistan over the years. We know they've traded information and ballistic missiles with Middle Eastern powers and North African governments. And part of this is the capability they've developed, the scud for example.

So, the official airline in North Korea. We've passed legislation where we could sanction and shut that airline down simply for the fact that it has carried scud missile parts, right? So, what we need to do is utilize the laws that are on the books now, as well as the new U.N. sanctions that the Security Council passed.

What we have is a failure to fully enforce those sanctions and the consequence it would have on North Korea if we fully enforced it would be to shut off the hard currency that North Korea needs in order to continue these weapons programs.

BLITZER: What should the U.S. be doing right now? ROYCE: Well, Wolf, for example, one of the things we could do right

now is go to China and say, we know the only other way that they're getting hard currency is because of the trade in commodities, in coal and so forth, that China is doing with its shipments that it's receiving from North Korea and sending back cold, hard cash which is what the North Koreans need to pay for these tests and pay for these missile parts and so forth.

We could tell China, these particular banks that are involved in this and these institutions, we're going to have secondary sanctions. We are going to actually impose the laws that we gave the administration the ability to impose on China so that just like with Banco Delta Asia some years ago when we shut down the Chinese banks that were dealing with North Korea, when we caught North Korea counterfeiting hundred dollar bills and using that money for their weapons program. We could do that again and we need to --

BLITZER: All right.

ROYCE: -- we need to see that kind of leadership.

BLITZER: Mr. Chairman, speaking of China, I want to you listen carefully to what Donald Trump told me about North Korea this -- earlier in the year in January.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: China has total control over them, and we have total control over China, if we had people that knew what they are doing which we don't. We have no leadership in this country. So, China has to get involved and China should solve that problem.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Do you agree with the Republican nominee?

ROYCE: Well, I think we would have to add this to the statement. In order to get China to solve that equation, China has to understand that we will sanction those banks again, those Chinese banks that are transferring the hard currency.

So, yes, it's true they can be -- it can be solved if China gets involved but let's talk about the inducements that may be necessary. We have tried to tell the leaders in China, in our trips to Beijing, look, you should not want to see the consequences of proliferation. Because if North Korea develops this weapon, so will South Korea, so will Japan, so will Taiwan. You don't want to see that arms race, neither do we. So, you need to become more proactive.

But I -- my concern here is that leaving it to their discretion isn't going to be enough. We need to use these powers that now the administration has under the bill that I authored that's been signed into law by the president, to tell China, no, there will be secondary sanctions on any economic activity you are engaged in with North Korea. Because our goal right now is to shut that economy down so that they cannot continue to expand this nuclear weapons' program.

[13:10:23] BLITZER: Ed Royce is the chairman of the House Foreign Affairs Committee. Mr. Chairman, thanks for joining us.

ROYCE: Thank you, Wolf.

BLITZER: Coming up, North Korea, Russia, Syria, Iraq, the war against ISIS. The next president of the United States will have a lot of national security foreign policy on that president's plate when he or she comes into office in January. The libertarian party presidential nominee, Gary Johnson, you see him live. He's standing by. We'll discuss national security and foreign policy. That's next.

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With North Korea's claim of a fifth nuclear test, to the meeting in Geneva between the U.S. and Russia on Syria, foreign policy national security, certainly right now, a key campaign issue in this 2016 presidential race here in the United States.

Let's bring in the libertarian party presidential nominee, the former Republican governor of New Mexico, Gary Johnson. Governor, thanks very much for joining us.

[13:15:03] GARY JOHNSON (L), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Wolf, great to be with you here today.

BLITZER: Let's talk national security, foreign policy. Huge issue right now in North Korea right now. If you were president, what would be your response to the news of another North Korean nuclear test?

JOHNSON: Well, Wolf, for months now I've - I've been saying, of course, being in the campaign running for president, that North Korea is the biggest threat in the world today. That at - that at some point these intercontinental ballistic missiles are going to actually work. So, obviously, with this test today, the - the explosion itself, the device itself is getting more potent. The missiles are flying a little bit further. This is the biggest threat.

I think the way - the only way that we address this is through China. China recognizes this threat as much as anyone else. They are the number one trading partner of North Korea and that from a diplomatic standpoint, without China, this doesn't get resolved.

There is no chance that North Korea invades South Korea from a conventional standpoint. We do have 40,000 troops in South Korea. Imagine if we had 40,000 Chinese troops in Central America. So I think there's an opportunity - and, by the way, hey, they launch missiles into South Korea. We have them covered with our nuclear umbrella. But that's the threat here. And it's very real.

BLITZER: So here's the question, would you keep those U.S. troops along the demilitarized zone of South Korea? I think there's about 30,000, actually. Would you keep them there? Would you keep the 60,000 - 50,000 or 60,000 troops the U.S. has in Japan? Would you keep those troops there or bring them all home? JOHNSON: Well, speaking specifically about South Korea, I think

there's an opportunity here to get our troops out of South Korea. And that would be joining arms - joining hands with China to deal with this. Imagine if there were those many - that many troops, 30,000 Chinese troops in Central America. We'd be going crazy. Well, we're kind of making China go crazy with our 30,000 troops in South Korea. Again, recognizing there is no chance that North Korea invades South Korea conventionally.

BLITZER: Why do you say that? They have a million conventional forces just north of the demilitarized zone. The South Koreans have close to a million members of a conventional force south. They have huge numbers of missiles, artillery. I was in North Korea, actually, a few years back. But why do you - why do you say there's no chance North Korean forces would move against South Korea?

JOHNSON: Well, I don't think that that capability exists. And, of course, that would be the input that I'm getting right now that, in fact, South Korea is so far advanced, the economies are nowhere near comparable in scale. North Korea is - it's just - it's not going to happen. So that is the - and that South Korea is more than capable of defending themselves. But North - South Korea is more than capable of defending themselves. North Korea is not going to embark -

BLITZER: All right.

JOHNSON: On a conventional invasion of South Korea.

BLITZER: So I just want to be precise, the 30,000 or so U.S. troops in South Korea, you would bring home, and the 50,000 U.S. troops in Japan, you would bring home as well? Is that right?

JOHNSON: You know I am - I am not - I think there's the opportunity to deescalate in both of those areas, and by de-escalate, to bring those troops home. South Korea, I think there is a big opportunity, but, of course, that would be in conjunction with China and that would be in conjunction with actually lessening this nuclear threat, which is very real.

BLITZER: Let's talk about Syria. That's another big threat. You caused a buzz the other day - yesterday when you said what is Aleppo. A political question and then I want to get back to national security. Can your campaign overcome that flub, if you will?

JOHNSON: Well, I hope so, because I'm very aware of the policy and going on the show yesterday thinking Aleppo was an acronym and, hey, I take complete responsibility. I'm running for president of the United States. Look, I should have known what he was talking about. I - we weren't even talking about it in the context of anything.

But that said, the policy - the policy that exists is Aleppo is at the epicenter of what is happening in Syria. I mean on the east side of Aleppo, you've got the regime forces, Assad. They are fighting against the Syrian - Free Syrian Army, which we're supporting, that is also allied with the Islamists. We're arming the Free Syrian Army. Those arms are falling in the hands of the Islamists. You've got Raqqa in the north. You've got ISIS and we're supporting the Kurds.

[13:20:00] BLITZER: What would you do - what would you - what would you do about Raqqa?

JOHNSON: Well, first of all, as president of the United States, I would have never gotten in this situation in the first place. I don't think that any time we support regime change that it has resulted in a safer world, that it has resulted in a less safe world.

Look, we're going to see the end to fighting ISIS. But back to what we're currently doing, we're backing the Kurds fighting ISIS. Well, the Kurds are sideways with our ally Turkey and Turkey is not as much of an ally as they were because of us having invaded Iraq, regime change, regime change. This would be a policy difference from prior administrations.

BLITZER: Does given the slaughter that's going on in Aleppo and elsewhere in Syria, the thousands and thousands of people who are being killed, or hundreds of thousands over the past four years, does the United States have a moral responsibility to help these people?

JOHNSON: Well, a responsibility to bring this to an end. And you mentioned earlier that Kerry is negotiating - and I'm assuming this is taking place. The only way that this Syrian situation comes to an end is with Russia. And, of course, we have the potential conflict with Russia in the air that exists in this situation also. So it's a horrible situation that, in my opinion, can only be brought to an end if we involve Russia directly in bringing about a diplomatic solution to this. Obviously, that would start with a cease-fire.

BLITZER: One final question. It sounds like you agree with Donald Trump as far as Russia's - getting involved with Russia. As far as using China to deal with North Korea. Are you and Donald Trump, on these issues, on the same page?

JOHNSON: On these issues, it certainly sounds like the same. Let me add to that, just the NATO and the notion that those that are participating in NATO have pledged to give 2 percent of their GDP to their own defense, social programs in Europe have been able to flourish on the backs of us paying for their military defense.

BLITZER: Gary Johnson is the libertarian presidential candidate.

Governor, thanks very much for joining us.

JOHNSON: Wolf, thank you very much for having me on.

BLITZER: Still ahead, Donald Trump appears on Russian TV and criticizes U.S. foreign policy. How comfortable are Republicans with that move? We're about to find out.

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[13:27:04] BLITZER: Donald Trump downplays concerns about Russia meddling in U.S. politics in an interview that aired on Russian television. Trump was interviewed by former CNN host Larry King on RT America. The Kremlin-backed channel is part of the Russian state television network. Here's what Trump said about possible Russian hacking of the Democrats.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I don't know. I mean I've been hearing about it. I've been reading about it. I think it's probably unlikely. I think maybe - maybe the Democrats are putting that out. Who knows? But I think that it's - it's pretty unlikely. But, you know, who knows. I hope that if they are doing something, I hope that somebody's going to be able to find out so they can - they can end it because that would not be appropriate at all.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Republican Congressman Sean Duffy is a Trump supporter. H's joining us here in studio right now.

Congressman, thanks very much for joining us.

REP. SEAN DUFFY (R), TRUMP SUPPORTER: Hey, Wolf.

BLITZER: I should point out you're from Wisconsin.

DUFFY: Absolutely.

BLITZER: And very, very proud of that as well.

So what's your reaction when you hear, first of all, that Trump went on Russian TV, gave this interview to Larry King on Russian TV, and that he's dismissing or tends to dismiss this notion that Russia is hacking, trying to medal in American politics?

DUFFY: Well, first off, I mean, I mean he went on with Larry King.

BLITZER: Right.

DUFFY: A guy that helped build the CNN network. And, obviously, a lot of different sources pick up Larry King and his podcast. So it's not like he went to Russia on went on Russian television. It was with an American host with an American perspective. So I think it's important to classify that.

BLITZER: But what about the substance of what he was saying?

DUFFY: Well, I don't think we know who's hacking the DNC.

BLITZER: There's a lot of suspicion that the Russians are doing it.

DUFFY: There is.

BLITZER: Including the speaker of the House, Paul Ryan, is suggesting the Russians are doing it.

DUFFY: But we don't - we don't have any public evidence of that yet. So to call them out when we don't have it, I think we're premature. But, listen, when we talk about going on television networks of people

that we don't like very much, Obama went down to Cuba. These are people that killed dissidents, imprisoned dissidents. He went down there with the Castro brothers, went to - went to baseball games. So sometimes liberals are clutching their pearls over Donald Trump appearing (ph) with Larry King.

BLITZER: Are you comfortable with Donald Trump's praising Putin?

DUFFY: No, listen, I think - I think Putin's a bad guy. He's a thug. And I don't think they're a friend of ours. But I also think if you look at what's happened with Russia, Democrats don't come to this conversation with clean hands. It was - it was Hillary Clinton who did the reset button and failed with Russia. It was - it was Obama in the debates in 2012 that told Mitt Romney that the 1980s want their foreign policy back when Romney said, hey, listen, Russia is the biggest foreign policy - or foreign threat to the U.S. government. They've got it wrong at every turn. And so, again, both parties don't come at this with clean hands. I think Donald should be stronger against Russia. They're not our friend.

BLITZER: So you disagree with Donald Trump on that?

DUFFY: On - absolutely.

BLITZER: I want you to listen, Hillary Clinton's running mate, Tim Kaine, he just had some pretty harsh words for his vice presidential running mate counterpart, Mike Pence. I want you to listen to what Kaine said.

DUFFY: All right.

[13:30:03] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TIM KAINE (D), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: What is it about running your economy into the ground, as Putin has in Russia, that's leadership? What is it about invading other nations that's leadership? What is it about persecuting LGBT Russians or persecuting