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Trump Visits Dr. Oz, Flint Water Plant in Whirlwind Day; Powell Slams Trump, Clinton in Leaked E-mails; Trump Will Not Disclose Physical Results on Dr. Oz. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired September 14, 2016 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[09:00:42] CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: And good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me. A big day ahead for Donald Trump. In just about an hour, Mr. Trump will sit down with TV personality Dr. Oz. He'll talk about his health regimen amid growing calls to release his medical records. And then Mr. Trump will head to Flint, Michigan, where he will reportedly tour that city's water treatment plant. All of this as the Trump Foundation becomes the focus of an investigation by the New York Attorney General. Trump's campaign calling it, quote, another left wing hit job by a partisan hack.

And that's not all. Newly leaked e-mails from Colin Powell show the former Secretary of State ripping Trump as, in his own words, quote, a national disgrace, and an international pariah. But Powell doesn't just take aim at Trump, he also jabs at Hillary Clinton saying, quote, everything HRC touches, she kind of screws up with hubris.

CNN's Phil Mattingly is following all of the developments in the Trump campaign. He's live in Flint, Michigan. Hi, Phil.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, good morning, Carol. People tend to be a little bit more forthcoming in private e-mails than they are in public. And that's certainly the case with Colin Powell. Now, people for a number of months now have wondered, where does he stand on Donald Trump? Obviously a Bush administration Secretary of State, a four-star general, but also somebody who endorsed and voted for President Obama in 2008 and 2012.

For the most part, Colin Powell has demurred. But as you noted, in e- mails, he not only hits Hillary Clinton but saves his harshest critiques for Donald Trump. And one of the issues he attacks on is on birtherism, this idea that Donald Trump pushed for a long period of time and still hasn't publicly backed off of, that President Obama was not born in the United States. Now, obviously, that's untrue.

And Colin Powell, in an e-mail to a former State Department aide that was leaked, saying the whole birther movement was racist. That was what the -- that is what 99 percent believe. When Trump couldn't keep that up, he also said he wanted to see if the certificate noted that he was a Muslim. Now, it's worth noting, Carol, these e-mails were first obtained by

BuzzFeed News and "The Intercept" and were hacked by a group called DC Leaks. And this is a group that U.S. officials believe has ties to the Russian government. But nonetheless, Colin Powell, laying out some personal thoughts here not just on Donald Trump but also on Hillary Clinton and Benghazi -- obviously, the Libyan outpost where four Americans were killed back in 2012 -- stating that he, quote, Benghazi is a stupid, quote, stupid witch-hunt. Basic fault falls on a courageous ambassador who thought Libyans now love me and I'm okay in this very vulnerable place, Powell referring to Ambassador Christopher Stevens who was killed.

This e-mail exchange happening with another former Secretary of State, Condoleezza Rice, but Powell went on to continue, blame also rests on his leaders and the support back in the United States. That included, according to Powell, Hillary Clinton. Condoleezza Rice replayed, completely agree.

So obviously these e-mails are something Colin Powell never wanted to come out, but a spokesperson for Powell, Carol, confirming that these are accurate e-mails. These are Colin Powell's actual e-mails, declining to comment further. But as you can see, very strong opinions on Donald Trump, Carol, but also some harsh words for Hillary Clinton as well.

COSTELLO: All right. Phil Mattingly reporting live from Flint, Michigan this morning. So let's talk. With me now to discuss all of this, Senior Adviser for Donald Trump, Sarah Huckabee Sanders; Tharon Johnson, he's the former South Regional Director for Obama's 2012 campaign -- he's also a Hillary Clinton supporter; Political Editor of theroot.com and Political Science Professor Jason Johnson; and finally CNN Political Analyst Jackie Kucinich. She's also the Washington bureau chief at "The Daily Beast." Welcome to all of you.

THARON JOHNSON, FORMER SOUTH REGIONAL DIRECTOR, OBAMA 2012: Good morning to you.

COSTELLO: And I'd like to ask you these questions one at a time because I think these issues are so important that I don't want a big argument or a debate. I just want to ask specific questions to specific people, so bear with me.

Sarah, I'd like to start with you. Mr. Trump has not apologized for being a birther. Colin Powell said in those e-mails the birther movement was racist and when Trump couldn't keep that up, he wanted to find out whether he was a Muslim. Of course, it's not true that Obama's a Muslim. So why doesn't Mr. Trump address the birther issue once and for all?

SARAH HUCKABEE SANDERS, SENIOR ADVISER FOR DONALD TRUMP: Look, I think he has but let's not forget this is actually a fight that Hillary Clinton herself started. She was the original questioner of the birth of --

COSTELLO: I don't want to go there. I want to just focus on what Colin Powell said in these e-mails. As you know, Mr. Trump was quite vocal about his birtherism. He forced President Obama to produce his birth certificate. So I don't want to play games this morning, I just want to address what Colin Powell said in these e-mails. So why doesn't Mr. Trump address this birther issue once and for all and put it to bed?

[09:05:01] SANDERS: I think it has been put to bed. I think the moment that Barack Obama put his birth certificate out, that issue was put to bed. And I know you don't want to play games, but I don't think that we can forget the origin of where that started. Everybody wants to attack Donald Trump for it but it started with Hillary Clinton, not Donald Trump.

COSTELLO: It did not come from the candidate Hillary Clinton like it came from the candidate Donald Trump, so I just want to stick on pure facts. Why doesn't Mr. Trump come out and say, you know what, that birtherism thing, I was completely wrong and I apologize to the President of the United States because, obviously, he was born in Hawaii, and he's Christian just like he's always said he was?

SANDERS: I think we've acknowledged the fact that he was certainly born in Hawaii. He produced his birth certificate. Again, I think that issue has been put to bed and so I think that has been addressed, so.

COSTELLO: OK. So we'll move on to the next question. Mike Pence refused to call David Duke deplorable two days ago and also yesterday. Some of his fellow Republicans are kind of upset about that, and said that, yes, Mike Pence should have called David Duke deplorable because he was the former Grand Wizard of the KKK.

Powell wrote this in an e-mail, Trump appeals to the worst angels of the GOP nature and poor white folks. So doesn't Powell's comments in this e-mail vindicate what Republicans are saying about Mike Pence and are saying about some of Donald Trump's followers, that Mike Pence should come out and say, look, those followers who are racist, we don't want them? And --

SANDERS: And he did.

COSTELLO: -- and David Duke is deplorable.

SANDERS: Yes, and he absolutely did that. He said we disavow David Duke. He said we don't want his support and we don't want people who think like him. We don't know want their support. I don't know what he could do any more aggressively, than may be bring him on your show and get him to speak (ph) --

COSTELLO: He could say David Duke is deplorable. David Duke is abhorrent. David Duke is a terrible person. He could say all of those things if he doesn't want to use the word deplorable because he wants to hang that on Hillary Clinton.

SANDERS: Look, I think he's been extremely clear in the fact that he does not want to be associated with David Duke in any way. He doesn't want his support, and we don't want people that think like David Duke's support. I guess I don't understand how much more clear you can be on this issue to say we don't want you. And I think that's far more strong and aggressive than name calling and certainly far more important.

COSTELLO: So what do you think that Colin Powell means when he says Donald Trump appeals to the worst angels of the GOP nature?

SANDERS: You know, I think that Colin Powell is making a big mistake and one of the same ones that Hillary Clinton has made. He is attacking tens of millions of Americans, and I'm sorry but I just can't buy into the fact that you can be the leader of our country when you think that tens of millions of Americans -- moms, teachers, veterans, police officers -- that are deplorable people are the worst parts of our country. I'm sorry but I think that is just horrible rhetoric, and it certainly has no place in politics and certainly no place in this room.

COSTELLO: OK. So I'm going to move on to you, Theron, now because Mr. Powell did not spare your candidate, Hillary Clinton, either. Powell writes in an e-mail, Hillary's mafia keeps trying to suck me into the e-mail controversy. It sounds like the Clinton camp desperately wanted Powell's help on this which he wasn't willing to give. So why drag Colin Powell into this when he didn't want to be dragged into it?

JOHNSON: Well, you know, Colin Powell is a well-respected person in our country. I mean, he was a great Secretary of State. And listen, I think that there were conversations between them. But as Hillary Clinton has said herself, this process around the e-mails was a mistake, how the campaign handled it. They would have done it --

COSTELLO: Now, she did invoke Colin Powell's name.

JOHNSON: She did.

COSTELLO: He did not want his name invoked, so why did she do that? Why did the campaign continue to pressure Colin Powell to do something he didn't want to?

JOHNSON: That's a question Hillary Clinton has answered and I think will continue to have to answer as this campaign goes on. But the fact of the matter is, is that there were conversations that were had between them. She did seek his counsel to make sure that what she was doing or, as Colin Powell said, what she was already doing was right. And I think that the controversy over what he said and what she thought he said, you know, that was definitely played out in the media. But --

COSTELLO: Well, but here's the thing because Powell followed up on that in another e-mail. He said, hubris foils Clinton every time. Hubris means excessive pride or arrogance. Is that why she hasn't been as transparent as some voters think she ought to be?

JOHNSON: I think that was a little bit of an overstatement on Secretary Powell's point. Listen, I've met Hillary Clinton many times. Obviously, I support her. Arrogance is something that she does not display. She's very genuine. She cares deeply about this country. And I think what he was basically saying is that, listen, and when you're in the heat of the campaign, there are mistakes that are going to be made. I mean, the Clinton campaign has made mistakes. The Trump campaign has made mistakes.

COSTELLO: But he is saying the reason the Clinton camp continues to make mistakes is because of hubris --

JOHNSON: Yes, I --

COSTELLO: -- because they won't listen to others when they give advice, as in, how to handle something.

[09:10:01] JOHNSON: No, I think that -- again, I think that's a misstatement on the Secretary's part. Listen, I have interacted with members on the campaign. I've actually worked with several of them when I worked for President Obama. This is a campaign that's inclusive, that's very open to criticism and open to advice from many, many people. So I don't think that was the case here, Carol.

COSTELLO: Really, the campaign's open to criticism from many people?

JOHNSON: They are. I mean --

COSTELLO: Because I see Sarah over here laughing.

SANDERS: I think she showed her hubris, if I can steal a word from Colin Powell, in her deplorable comment. She showed the absolute disdain she has for tens of millions of Americans. I mean, I think she --

COSTELLO: Well, let's just --

SANDERS: -- put full on exactly and gave the best example of exactly what Colin Powell is talking about when she called those people deplorable. And I think that is a disqualifying moment for her.

COSTELLO: Well, Donald Trump had plenty of things to call people himself.

JOHNSON: Exactly.

COSTELLO: So I don't want play that game either. So I want to go to my nonpartisan people now because I want them to put this conversation that I've just had into perspective. So, Jason, help us do that.

JASON JOHNSON, POLITICAL SCIENCE PROFESSOR, MORGAN STATE UNIVERSITY: First off, and it's interesting this is happening right after 9/11 which is a point where we, you know, talked about bringing America together and realizing who our common enemies are.

I wish that both political parties, that Paul Ryan, that Democrats would get together and say, we're sick and tired of leaks. It is disturbing to me that we live in a country where the Russians are regularly hacking into people's e-mails like it's an AOL account and releasing them to the public and that's dictating how our campaign operates. I think that is a greater national security and news issue and political issue that seems to keep getting missed.

Now, I'll say this very quickly, Carol, look, Colin Powell doesn't want any part of this. He doesn't want to work with Hillary Clinton. He doesn't like Donald Trump. I think Colin Powell, in an amazing way, represents a lot of America right now. He says, Donald Trump is a pariah, he's totally incompetent and shouldn't have this job and Hillary Clinton is not trustworthy and I wish she'd stop lying. Colin Powell sounds like an independent voter in the United States of America.

COSTELLO: Jackie, what's your spin on, perspective on this?

JACKIE KUCINICH, WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF, THE DAILY BEAST: I mean it doesn't sound like Colin -- I think Jason's absolutely right. It doesn't sound like Colin Powell is really going to be endorsing anyone at this point.

That said, I don't know how much of a splash his endorsement would make because a lot of Colin Powell's people have already endorsed Hillary Clinton. He's endorsed President Obama in the past. He also sort of reflects a lot of Republicans who really -- they don't really like Hillary Clinton, but they can't get on board the Trump train. So maybe he'll just sit this out at this point. It certainly looks that way in those e-mails.

COSTELLO: It does, OK. So Sarah, Tharon, Jason, Jackie, I want you to stick around because we have much more to talk about. Donald Trump's health could steal the spotlight today as well. The billionaire now gearing up for a one-on-one interview with Dr. Oz. That interview could happen in the next hour. M.J. Lee is outside Dr. Oz's studio in Manhattan where that taping is taking place, but I also want to bring in Brian Stelter who has more news on what exactly Donald Trump will be telling Dr. Oz. But, M.J., set the scene for us.

M.J. LEE, CNN NATIONAL POLITICS REPORTER: Hey, Carol. Donald Trump is paying a visit to the doctor's office today, but this is not a typical doctor and certainly not a typical appointment. Dr. Oz has said that he expects to analyze the results of Trump's physical last week. All of this, of course, is coming as there has been more pressure for both Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton to be more upfront about their medical records. All of this happened because Hillary Clinton had to cut a trip to the 9/11 memorial early on Sunday when it was revealed that she had been diagnosed with pneumonia.

Now, in terms of what exactly new information we might be hearing from this interview, the bar is pretty low. So far, the only thing that we have to go off of is a letter from Donald Trump's longtime physician who, in very Trumpian style, said in that letter that if elected President, Donald Trump would be the healthiest individual that has ever been elected President.

COSTELLO: OK. We'll get back to you when Donald Trump is done taping. Brian, you unearthed some new information about what exactly Donald Trump will be turning over to Dr. Oz?

BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Right. That's what's so curious about this, Carol. As M.J. just mentioned, Dr. Oz said this time yesterday that he'd be reviewing the results of Donald Trump's physical. Trump underwent that physical last week. We don't know with what doctor, and we haven't seen the results yet. So the idea this time yesterday as reported by Fox and as spoken by Dr. Oz was that he would be receiving the results and then reviewing them on this episode of Dr. Oz.

What a Trump TV stunt, right? What a classic reality TV stunt. Well, it turns out new this morning, Hope Hicks, the campaign spokeswoman, says, no, Dr. Oz will not be reviewing the results of the physical. That was an idea that was considered, she says, but never finalized. All of which leads us to wonder, Carol, when will the physical results be released?

Hicks says they will be released later this week, possibly tomorrow, but there's a lot of curiosity about what those physical results are going to show and what Trump will say to Dr. Oz later today.

So I can tell you, Carol, a clip will be released later today. The episode airs tomorrow and what we've been saying all week remains true, both Trump and Clinton owe the public more information about their medical histories.

[09:15:08] COSTELLO: All right. M.J. Lee, Brian Stelter, thanks to both of you.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, the Trump Foundation under fire and now Trump's campaign is firing back. Calling a new investigation, quote, "a left wing hit job".

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ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

COSTELLO: All right. I want to take you back live to outside of Dr. Oz's studios. You see photographers standing by and reporters. They're waiting Mr. Trump to walk in and tape an episode of Dr. Oz.

We thought that he was going to talk about the results of his physical with Dr. Oz, but it turns out and Brian Stelter just uncovered this about an hour ago that Donald Trump will not disclose the results of his physical on Dr. Oz's show. Instead they'll talk about Mr. Trump's health regimen, what he eats and stuff like that, and how he exercises.

So, let's talk about that. Back with us now, Sarah Huckabee Sanders, Tharon Johnson, Jason Johnson, and Jackie Kucinich.

So, Sarah, why did -- why did Donald Trump change his mind do you think?

SANDERS: I'm not sure he has. All along he said he was going to release his health records this week. That hasn't changed. He'll do that --

(CROSSTALK) COSTELLO: -- on Brian Kilmeade show, Dr. Oz told Brian Kilmeade of FOX News, "I know this, that Donald Trump will turn over those records right to Dr. Oz who will analyze them and it will be a surprise to Dr. Trump what -- Dr. Oz is going to say." That's what Brian Kilmeade said on his show as he was interviewing Dr. Oz.

So, it seems like he changed his mind.

SANDERS: Well, not necessarily. I mean as far as I know, Brian Kilmeade isn't a spokesperson for the campaign. And I think that the campaign itself has been extremely clear that Donald Trump will release his records this week from a physical he took on Friday. We're in the middle of the week. It's certainly not over and he still plans to do that.

But he is unlike Hillary Clinton willing to sit down with a doctor in a public forum and have a very open discussion about his health just as he's done on hundreds of other issues, because he's unafraid to sit down with the press. He does it every single day. And he's going to do it to talk about his health as he continues to do it on the campaign trail.

COSTELLO: Well -- these days. Mostly FOX News and CNBC.

But I want to bring in Brian Stelter so I can get the exact reporting right. So, Brian Stelter, was there a change of mind from Donald Trump?

STELTER: That is the indication from the campaign. That this was an idea that was discussed, revealing the physical results on live TV. Imagine the drama, by the way, of that. You would show up on -- in the studio with a studio audience and then Dr. Oz would have the results of the physical. Dr. Oz would read them to Trump, and interpret them in real time.

I don't know about you, Carol, I'd be a little nervous to have that done with my health. I don't know about you. Anyway, that was a discussion. That was an idea the campaign had, but according to the spokesman Hope Hicks that was never finalized. So, apparently, what Brian Kilmeade was saying yesterday on FOX News was just an idea the campaign had.

You know how this is going to work though. People are going to be even more curious about what was found in his physical. And the plan remains the same to release that detail later this week, but not on Dr. Oz.

COSTELLO: Well, well, there, there is like, you know, no I wouldn't want all of what my doctor found out on me to be released. Because there's, you know, some things are personal, Jason. So, isn't that fair?

JOHNSO: Yes. I mean, I think most of this discussion is kind of strange. I mean, like I said the president of the United States doesn't have to compete on American Gladiator. And so the physical needs, yeah the physical needs seem kind of strange. Also I think even the environment. I mean, he's going to talk to Dr.

Oz. So what, next we have Hillary Clinton's going to talk to Frasier? She's going to go talk to Dr. Phil in order to determine why she lies all of the time?

All of this to me is just a continual demonstration of how Donald Trump doesn't seem to be taking certain elements of this campaign seriously. Look, if you want to release your medical records, do it. If you want to speak to a black church, do it. But I don't think this respects the process.

There's plenty of things he can do. This is not one of them.

KUCINICH: Both of these candidates really released more about their medical history. The bottom line, both Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump have not released. Hillary Clinton said she's going to release more, Donald Trump is going to release this physical, but we really all we have is that his goofy doctor's letter that was released earlier this year.

So I mean there needs to be more transparency on both sides at this point that you know it matters of --

COSTELLO: OK --

KUCINICH: What the commander in chief -- what their health is.

COSTELLO: Let's talk about the other side. So, Tharon, when might Hillary Clinton release more medical records?

JOHNSON: I think we've got to first say that she has released way more documents, and way more of her medical history than Donald Trump.

Yes, but still, she did it a long time ago. But the challenge is this for Donald Trump. He has for weeks been sort of making these claims --

COSTELLO: What about Hillary Clinton's medical records that she's going to turn over. When might she do that?

THARON JOHNSON: I think she's going to do it very soon. I mean listen one thing you can't question Hillary Clinton about is when she's going to release her tax returns and when she's going to release her medical records. She's already done that.

I think at a time that campaign made a very, very smart decision to take her down for a couple days. I think there's nothing in her health documents or her records that would show that she's not in perfect health. So, I think she'll do that very soon.

But the problem is Donald Trump again flip-flopped. He said that he was going to release these medical records on the Dr. Oz show and I don't know what happened. Maybe he got cold feet. When he gets there today he now decides he's not going to release the medical records or findings and he's not going talk about it. Again this is the whole issue with Donald Trump and his campaign around transparency -- (CROSSTALK)

COSTELLO: Sarah, it's difficult not to think that Donald Trump flip- flopped. This is what he said earlier this week. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: This week I took -- this last week I took a physical. And I'll be releasing when the numbers come in, hopefully they're going to be good. I think they're going to be good. I feel great. But, when the numbers come in, I'd be releasing very soon -- very, very specific numbers.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[09:25:07] COSTELLO: So, we all expected again, Sarah, that that would be this week because when you take a physical it really doesn't take all that long to get the results in, right? I mean usually people know within a couple of days.

So, do you see why voters might appear to be confused about why Donald Trump -- he's going on Dr. Oz, so, why doesn't he release them there and be done with it?

SANDERS: I don't think voters would be confused. Even my 4-year-old daughter knows that there's seven days in a week and we're only on Wednesday. So, if he says he's going to release the results this week, he's still got a couple of days to do that. He certainly hasn't flip-flopped. I know he has every intention of doing that by the end of this week.

Again, this goes back to what the difference is between Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton. Donald Trump is sitting down in a public forum, taking questions about his health while Hillary Clinton has spent the best part of the last year hiding from the press on hundreds of issues. She refuses to --

STELTER: Hillary Clinton --

(CROSSTALK)

STELTER: -- earlier in the year. We will see what he says to Dr. Oz. It is a great opportunity for him to talk about his child care policy and other health issues. We know Ivanka is going with him and he'll start taping in about half an hour.

But Donald Trump is not as accessible to the media as he was six months ago. I think we should be honest about that.

JASON JOHNSON: And Dr. Oz isn't a journalist. He's a TV host and he already said he's not going to ask him difficult questions. This is a problem for both campaigns. It's clear he did flip flop. He did lie.

He said the same thing about going to a black church, first he was going to speak. Then he wasn't going to speak.

This is a problem. Donald Trump lies, Hillary Clinton isn't transparent.

SANDERS: The only candidate in this race who has lied is Hillary Clinton.

(CROSSTALK)

THARON JOHNSON: Here's you problem again to Jason's point, again the campaign is putting Donald Trump in very safe and scripted environment. Why not go ahead and have a conversation with American been pounding Hillary Clinton about her health and basically making these sort of insinuations that she's resting all the time what's wrong with her.

So, now, basically now he has a ally come out and say look, what my doctor put in this four-page document that we questioned is true he won't do it. Again, with 55 days left to go you cannot continue to be in a scripted environment. Donald Trump needs to be basically in front of the American people and have an open, honest conversation.

COSTELLO: Here's something else that I'm wondering about, and it might be nitpicking and you request tell me if you think it's nitpicking but Ivanka is going on Dr. Oz with Donald Trump to talk about his health and his dietary -- in my mind, that should be Melania Trump. Why isn't his wife going to appear with him?

SANDERS: You know that's a question I can't answer specifically why Ivanka's there. But I do know she spends an incredibly large amount of time with her dad. And can certainly speak to, you know, his regiment, the things he eats, his health. Look, I've spent time with Donald Trump on the campaign trail and I can tell you that you cannot survive the rigors of the campaign --

COSTELLO: Yes, I get that but going back to my original point, where has Melania Trump been?

STELTER: It's good question.

SANDERS: Let's not forget she's a mom, folks. She has a 10-year-old son that she is taking care of, and raising, and I think --

COSTELLO: I'm sure she has help --

(LAUGHTER)

SANDERS: -- and spending time with her child. And to question her for that is frankly ridiculous.

(CROSSTALK)

THARON: -- she's going to plagiarize again.

STELTER: She's not appearing. Yes, she does have other responsibilities. Very important ones. But so have other campaign spouses in the past. It is highly unusual that she has not made public appearances this summer and into the fall.

I do think, Carol, it's a question we should keep asking the campaign.

COSTELLO: All right. I have to leave it there. Brian Stelter, Sarah Huckabee Sanders, Tharon Johnson, Jason Johnson, and Jackie Kucinich, thanks to all of you.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM: from Olympic stardom to cyber attack victims. Private medical records from some of the country's top athletes made public by hackers.

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