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Suspect in Custody in NY, NJ Bombings; Rahami Not Flagged for Possible Radicalization Though Going to Afghanistan Twice; Mall Attacker Identified as Dahir Adan. Aired 3:30-4p ET
Aired September 19, 2016 - 15:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[15:30:00] BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: ...So, we do know that he probably is going to at some point be in contact with authorities. At this point he has not said anything to them, Brooke.
BALDWIN: Thank you. Let me bring in former hostage negotiator, supervisor for NYPD, and a former CIA counterterrorism analyst. Good to see both of you. Wally, let me turn to you and ask. The fact that he -- they got him alive is extraordinary.
WALLACE ZEINS, FORMER HOSTAGE NEGOTIATOR, NYPD: It is extraordinary.
BALDWIN: He is being treated. They're not asking him a darn thing just yet, but then when do they start?
ZEINS: The most important thing is to stabilize, get all his body functions and everything normal. Keep in mind as we're talking right now, as they're stabilizing him, the NYPD, FBI and Joint Terrorism Task Force is going out to where his footprint was in the past. What they'll do is check to see everything where he was and they'll gather intelligence and have questions and answers. When he's able to talk, then they'll ask him certain questions --
BALDWIN: That they know the answers to.
ZEINS: Exactly, where they have the answers and they'll be able to see if he's lying or not. They also want to gain his credibility. They are going to let him gain some of his strength back and they'll talk to him in a nice way and try to let him know it's a two-way deal. They want to develop a rapport between him and them.
BALDWIN: You help us, we'll help you.
ZEINS: Right.
BALDWIN: Buck. We've learned in the last hour or so that he is originally from Afghanistan and has taken multiple trips. I don't know how recent, but multiple trips back to Afghanistan. If you are an investigator, what exactly are you looking into with regard to those trips?
BUCK SEXTON, FORMER CIA COUNTER-TERRORISM ANALYST: You'd certainly want to know, whether that played a role in the radicalization that clearly occurred here because we don't have any evidence right now based on what the authorities are saying that there is a broader cell. There are other individuals who are operationally active with him. Now I would want to know, OK, was this just a case of self- radicalization, jihadization here in the states because he watched certain things online.
He's in the chat rooms that are frequented by ISIS supporters, Al Qaeda fans or others, or perhaps he was in contact with individuals specifically in Afghanistan who were part of that process of hardening his ideology where he eventually became a terrorist and was attacking, as we see here. Of course, he's born in Afghanistan.
He may have just been visiting family there. This would be suspicious. It's worthy of further investigation, but we still don't know what pushed him to radicalize and to wage his own jihad in this way.
BALDWIN: Wally, what do you make of these devices that were just found in bags, one didn't go off in Manhattan, the other was under a metal dumpster, thank goodness, as to maximize casualties. Twenty- nine people were hurt but it could have been so much worse.
ZEINS: It could have been so much worse. You could look at it both ways as he was a lousy bomb-maker or look at it as collateral damage where he wanted to get the message out and put the scare into the public, especially with all the programs going on in New York today. The U.N. General Assembly, all the diplomats and all the foreign visitors.
BALDWIN: And heads of state.
ZEINS: And the president being here today.
BALDWIN: We don't know if he was aware of UNGA was happening this week or not, also the significance of the locations. The Marine Corps race on Saturday morning at Seaside Heights. There was that registration hiccup, so apparently when the bomb went off that was supposed to be slated in conjunction with the start of the race, that didn't happen.
ZEINS: And he didn't hit the high-profile targets like a bridge or a stadium of some type, which we have events going on all the time.
BALDWIN: Go ahead, Buck.
SEXTON: I want to add, because the bomb went off a few blocks from where I was, I heard it go off on Saturday night. It was clear it was an explosion and I got on the phone with former associates saying, look, something bad has gone on here, we need to get on this immediately.
That area, as your guest says, it's not as high profile, 23rd and 6th, but it's highly trafficked at that time of night. I do think we got lucky in the placement of the bomb, had it been different, probably would have resulted in numerous fatalities because 23rd and 6th is highly trafficked. There's not a lot of security there. Unlike in Harold's Square and Times Square, other places where there is a robust police presence, Chelsea tends to be much lighter with the enforcement footprint.
BALDWIN: What about, Buck, the usage of the device. We don't know how he learned to put this together. You know investigators are in that apartment above that fried chicken restaurant trying to figure out if that's where he did it and who else would have known.
[15:35:00] The cell-phone detonator, pressure cooker, the wires, the bb's, what do you make of that?
SEXTON: As far as what we know, this is straight out of the jihadist playbook. The pressure cooker as an essential component of the device, like the Boston marathon bombing that was put out by "Inspire" magazine put out by Al Qaeda of the Arabian Peninsula, called "How to build a bomb in the kitchen of your mom."
This is now out there and it's not particularly hard to do. In this case, he was able to construct a device properly but didn't know very much, thank heavens, about how the device would actually function in terms of the fragmentation and how placement would matter in this, too. But this is not hard to do. It's out there on the internet.
There's no way to stop people experimenting and constructing these kind of devices on their own if they choose to do so. Again like just like with Faisal Shahzad in 2010, the Times Square bomber, we mostly got lucky here. There also was some very excellent police work.
BALDWIN: This is a guy, Wally -- yes, excellent police work all around, but this is a guy who was ultimately found asleep at the door step of a bar in Linden, New Jersey, when someone recognized him from watching CNN, and that's how they caught him.
ZEINS: He probably didn't sleep at all in the past, but, wow, what a stupid person. Let me say one thing to you, Brooke, that's very important. NYPD has what they call the joint emergency operation center. About 9:30 when NYPD found out it was an explosion, commissioner O'Neill activated it. That's where every agency, city, state, federal, fire department, coast guard, military, CIA, they all have a seat and they all share information together at one place where they dispose of it at one particular location. That's one of the reasons why things worked out so fast and so well.
BALDWIN: Information sharing, we talked about that in the wake of 9/11 and how much it needed to improve. Wally, thank you so much, and Buck Sexton from Vegas, thank goodness you and your brother are OK.
Just in, a woman believed to be the suspect's sister is asking for privacy in a post on Facebook and asking for, quote, "peace in this tragic time."
Next, breaking developments in another terror attack on U.S. soil also over the weekend. This was a stabbing spree inside that Minnesota mall. Hear who the attacker was and who is claiming responsibility.
[15:40:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK) BALDWIN: Welcome back. I'm Brooke Baldwin. You're watching CNN special coverage of the attacks. A wing of ISIS is now claiming responsibility for the stabbings at a Minnesota mall, calling the man here, Dahir Adan, a soldier of the ISIS state. But at this point CNN cannot confirm who was behind the attack. Police say Adan was in a security uniform when he entered the mall, slashing victims and stabbing nine people. Some of his victims tried to fight back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
Ryan Schliep, Victim sf Mall Attacker: I was facing him head-on and he had one fist up and I knew he was going to strike me so I tried to brace myself for it. He just did one fast motion to the side of my head. I had a hat and everything. And you could see where the blade went through the hat. Pulled out the blade. I fell to the ground and he just kept pushing to whatever his objective was. He looked just blank in the eyes, like he wasn't even there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: During the attack police and witnesses say Adan made references to Allah and asked at least one person if he or she was Muslim before he began stabbing. This man also was shot and killed during a rampage by an off-duty police officer at the mall. Let's go to Rosa Flores following the investigation from St. Cloud, Minnesota. I mean, do you know any more into the motivation here?
ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, Brooke, we've been talking to community leaders here who have been talking to the family, who is telling a little more but is also being very reserved. The family tells these leaders that on Saturday Adan was actually trying to just buy a cell phone at this mall. So, you're right to ask the question, why?
How do we go from an individual going to buy a cell phone to committing this act? We're also learning more about him, about Adan. He's 22 years old. People here in the community tell us that he went to college here. He worked here. He worked for a private security firm here. And he's part of the Somali community. Notice, hear this, these community leaders are very concerned because they say they've been building bridges for 30 years to try to integrate the Somali community with Minnesotans and they're afraid this will shatter all of their efforts. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HAJI YUSSUF, SOMALI COMMUNITY LEADER: We've been a peaceful community. We've worked very hard to build bridges. That's more important than anything. The idea that people like ISIS will claim this responsibility, for us, is ridiculous, because anything -- you know, they like claiming things.
[15:45:00] Spectacular attacks or things that happen. They like to say, we -- but again, the facts haven't been known yet. There's no connection between ISIS and Dahir by the law enforcement and the FBI. Once that connection is made, whenever it is, then as a community we are going to respond.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FLORES: Here's the latest from the police chief. He says that while warrants have been exercised and investigators are sifting through all of the evidence they've collected, they do not find at this moment, Brooke, any connection to ISIS.
BALDWIN: Tell me more just quickly, Rosa, the hero off-duty police officer?
FLORES: You know, we do know more about him. One of the things that investigators tell us and remind us about is that he is also a victim in this stabbing. He was at the mall. He's an off-duty police officer from a nearby town called Avon. He just happened to be there.
Now, he also happened to be a former police chief, firearms instructor and an off-duty police officer all the same time. He had his weapon, pulled out that weapon and shot and killed him. He's been talking to the governor. Not talking to the media just yet. Talking to the governor. He is OK. They do remind us that he is also a victim, not just a hero in this case.
BALDWIN: Yes, Rosa, thank you in Minnesota.
Next, we'll go back to breaking news in New York and New Jersey. The suspect in the bombings captured alive during a shootout with police today. We have new video of the aftermath. And weeks before the presidential election, Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump responding to the attacks. Hillary Clinton is asked during if she thinks terrorists are trying to impact the election? We have her response.
[15:50:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HILLARY CLINTON, (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He is unqualified to be president.
DONALD TRUMP, (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Hillary Clinton lacks the judgment.
CLINTON: The scams, the fraud.
TRUMP: Hillary Clinton has evaded justice!
CLINTON: He is unqualified to be president.
TRUMP: Hillary Clinton lacks the judgment.
CLINTON: The scams, the fraud.
TRUMP: Hillary Clinton has evaded justice!
CLINTON: He clearly has something to hide.
TRUMP: Her conduct is disqualified!
Clinton, Trump, head to head for the first time on the same stage. The first presidential debate live Monday, September 26. All-day coverage on CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BALDWIN: On that note on these candidates here, the attacks on both New Jersey, New York and Minnesota over the weekend brought the politics of terror to the campaign trail again. Two different takes today on how to wage this fight both from Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump. Here is a clip from each.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: They know who a lot of these people are. They're afraid to do anything about it because they don't want to be accused of profiling, and they don't want to be accused of all sorts of things. You know, in Israel they profile. They've done an unbelievable job, as good as they can do. But Israel has done an unbelievable job and they'll profile.
CLINTON: Let's not get diverted and distracted by the kind of campaign rhetoric we hear coming from the other side. This is a serious challenge. We are well equipped to meet it, and we can do so in keeping with smart law enforcement, good intelligence and in concert with our values.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Let's go straight to our chief Washington correspondent, both head and lead of the "State of the Union", Jake Tapper. There is a stark difference on how they're responding to the terror attacks. The question is, 50 days to go, which approach is more attractive to voters?
JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: Obviously some of this is baked in, because there have been terrorist attacks in the last year, obviously Orlando, San Bernardino. Questions about which candidate is better prepared to handle terrorism, interestingly, usually the Republican in a face-to- face matchup, usually the Republican has an advantage.
Hillary Clinton has been able to maintain a lead on this in three of the last four polls, although we should point out CNN's own poll shows Trump with the advantage, but an aggregate of the last four, Hillary Clinton is seen as better able to handle the terrorist threat. It's different when you look at who is better at handling ISIS abroad. There Donald Trump gets higher marks. But specifically on handling the terrorism the threat we're all thinking about today because of these would-be murders in New Jersey and New York, Hillary Clinton does get better marks there.
BALDWIN: That's the CNN poll you just cited, but that's just one of four.
TAPPER: Yes. BALDWIN: Breaking news on New Jersey governor Chris Christie. What
have you learned?
TAPPER: It's interesting, it's the first time we've ever heard specifically from prosecutors, and we're also being told the defendants, their attorneys also say that Chris Christie, the allegation is, as governor, knew that this was going on, knew that there was this revenge going on with the bridge closure to punish a Democratic Mayor for not endorsing Chris Christie in his reelection campaign while it
was going on. That's the first time we ever heard this allegation. Christie, of course, has for a long, long time denied he knew anything about it.
He fired the defendants after it was shown that they did actually orchestrate this bridge closure that caused traffic problems in a town where the mayor did not endorse Chris Christie. But it's the first time we've ever heard the prosecutors say that Chris Christie, in their view, did know about it while it was going on.
BALDWIN: Hmm. Jake Tapper, we'll look for more of that and look for you at the top of the hour on "The Lead".
Coming up with suspect in these New York, New Jersey bombings and would-be bombing, he was caught alive after a shootout with the police in New Jersey. We are learning exactly how this arrest happened hours after his photo went public.
[15:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: I want to take a moment to honor this week's CNN hero. She is Cathryn Couch. She supplies healthy meals to cancer patients as they undergo chemotherapy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CATHRYN COUCH, CERES COMMUNITY PROJECT: When people get sick, their life becomes very complicated. Eating well tends to go to the bottom of the list, but it's really critically important. What we do is not so much about chopping onions but about making this difference in this family's life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Thank you, Cathryn. You can watch her full story and the story of so many other incredible people we're featuring. Just go to CNNheroes.com.
Before I let you go, back to our breaking news. This bomb suspect. We have this video from a man who just happened to be across the street today when that shootout happened between that suspect and police in Linden, New Jersey that ultimately ended in the capture of the suspect alive from the bombings over the weekend.
Daniel Carnoval said he was playing with his phone while visiting a friend in Linden, New Jersey and started recording, and this is what he caught.
(GUNSHOTS)
BALDWIN: CNN also has cameras in Linden at the hospital where the suspect is now being treated and in his hometown. All of that and so much more on "The Lead" with Jake Tapper which starts right now.
